How This 100kg Cyclist Became The Ultimate Hill Climber

This episode of the Get Fast podcast is brought to you by Trivelo Coaching, where we help triathletes and cyclists like you train smarter to race faster. You are joined, as always, by your host, former Australian Ironman champion Jared Donnelly. And I am Jordan Donnelly. In today's episode, we're asking the question, what should my goal be? And how do you set a good race goal? And by good, we mean how do you set a goal that's appropriate to you? How do you set a goal that's appropriate to your level, your ability and your experience? And often when starting out, we might just pick an event like an Ironman or a 70.3 or Olympic distance triathlon or whatever event. We set our goal and the event is our goal, but we don't think about what's our goal inside that event. And it may just be to complete it, but if it's not to complete it, if it's to perform it well, which we would highly recommend and say that a lot, dad, where you say, I don't want to just be a completer. I want to achieve the best result I can at the event, how do we actually go about setting the goal? Because once you get to that point, most people would be asking, well, I have no idea what time I can do. I have no idea what my ability could be. I have no idea how much I could possibly improve. I might have done one before. I don't know how much more I've got to improve on that, or I've never done one. What should my goal be? So that's what we're talking about today. So I want to start with the question with you is, how do I know what my goal should be?

It's a great topic to talk about because there's so many variables in that question. And as we say a lot in the podcast, it depends. And right from the outset, to answer the question, I would be looking at you as an athlete and seeing a. What your experience is. So that's the very first question I would be asking. Is you want to do this event because you might have been sitting around a pub talking about it, you might have been in a coffee shop and 10 of your mates are doing that event. That's the very first question. Is that event appropriate for you? Is it something that is going to highlight your capabilities, or is it going to highlight your. Your weaknesses? So you really want to think very seriously about the actual event and is it in your capabilities to do well in, or is there another event that's more appropriate for you to get the best outcome. And that would be the first thing I'd be looking at. So for example, there's a great example at the moment in this period where the events down the track a group of cyclists have selected the Amy Gillig Gran Fondo. And in that group there's probably six or seven riders with all different of various abilities and oh, let's do that race. That's a great idea and it is, it's good fun to do it as a group and I would highly recommend people do that. But the question is, is that event suitable to you? And I look at the riders who are entering that event and some of them are not capable of riding well on that course because it's too hilly. And so their results are going to be compromised because of their actual physical abilities and strengths. Some of the other riders, it suits them down the ground, they're light, they're used to climbing a lot. So there's a classic example of selecting events that looks like it's good on paper but in actual fact might not be the best event for you to have the most enjoyable day.

So would you say then don't do the event because it's not your strength?

No, I'd definitely not say that. I would say go into the event understanding that this doesn't suit you. But you know, do your best, prepare as well as you can. We can change the program to facilitate climbing with endurance but be aware that you are still going to be compromised by the selection of this course. There are many other Gran Fondos around the world, around Australia, around the States that are more suitable to you and there are, there are other options for Gran Fondo. The Gran Fondo is a selection for the world title. So you know that's an event that people aspire to to go to the world titles. But will you qualify in that event if you're not a climber, probably not. There's another event that's better suited to you flatter courses.

But in when you think about that, I would say that for most of us an Ironman will highlight our lack of capability. Is an event that will floor you. So how do you go about thinking about an Ironman but still as an.

Ironman example, you know, just, just take the opportunities. In Australia you have Cairns as an Ironman, you have Port Mac as an Ironman and you have Busselton and probably Lake Taupo in New Zealand being in the same region. So there's four choices and they are quite different courses. So what's your goal? Is it to complete one? Is it to do it as fast as you possibly can as a pb, they're the questions that I'd be asking.

So if, you know, if a course is too underlating or, or too hilly, would you say just stay away from it and go pick an easier course?

Well, that's a good question, but the real question is, are you prepared to change the training to suit that course? And if you are, then fine. And I'll give you another example of someone. And there's a classic cycling event, and I'm picking on cycling events here just to make the point. For triathletes and cyclists, of course, the Bauble Classic is one of the hardest races you could ever possibly do as a cyclist. It starts at Warigal, actually, where I was born. So it's. I've got a lot of affinity with this race. And it goes up Mount Bauble, which is one of the steepest climbs in Australia, if not the world. I've ridden a lot of climbs around the world and this is one of the hardest climbs I've ever done. And I still get shivers down my spine thinking about the six or seven Bauble Classics that I've done and not.

What makes it so hard.

You've got 100km of really hard undulating road and then you hit the bottom of Mount Bawbal and it's 6km, averaging something between 12 and 14% with sections at 22% from the ticket box up. So there's people walking, zigzagging. The race starts at the ticket box, but it's the hardest 100k you'll do before you get to the ticket box. I've done a lot of road races. It's one of the hardest 100ks, and then you've got the climb. So that's what makes it more difficult. And the reason I picked this as an example is one of the guys who coached for a long time, Sean Wilkerson, is a really big guy, 6 foot 3, 6 foot 4. When he first started riding, he won't mind me telling people this. He was 100 kilo, and when he got himself, he wanted to do Bawbor Classic. And I'm saying, Sean, it's not the event for you. There are other races. No, no, I want to do this event. I'm really determined to do this event and I could not talk him out of it. And he lives in the. In the hills, in the Dandenongs, near me. And I said, well, you're going to have to do all of these things different. Change everything about your program that we've been looking at so far. You know, he was really concentrating on time trialing. Change everything about what you're doing and your mindset has to be, I'm going to make myself into a climber. So we went on this journey together and when we first started training around the Dandenongs, you know, it was to be expected that he would not be able to ride the same tempo. And that's. That's what we did. You know, he would just keep persevering with the races and with the training up the climbs, and slowly but surely, he started to get better and better and he lost weight and he ended up down to mid-80s in weight. And he became a weapon on the climbs around the Dandenongs. He could push me around the Dandenongs. We're completely different body shape. He turned himself into a climber come race day. He performed outstanding and had the race of his life and was in the top 10 in his category and one of the biggest guys in the race. But that's an example of someone who's motivated and determined to change everything about themselves, their training, their body shape, their mindset. And there was no obstacle for him. And what an outstanding result it was. And it was one of the more. More satisfying coaching experiences I ever had was he didn't win anything, but his performance was. Was incredible.

That's an unbelievably relevant story. And that really highlights the point, I think, is what you're saying. It doesn't matter what course you select, whatever you select as your goal, you just have to be aware of the course and the nature of the course and the requirements of the course or the race, of the event, and then be willing to train accordingly. So if you pick an event that isn't your strongest, as long as you're aware of that, you can change your training accordingly.

Yeah, but also, you don't have to go through that. You can pick event, an event that's more suitable and, and concentrate on those events that are more suitable to your strengths. Climbing was not a strength of Sean's, far from it. That was the biggest weakness he had. But in actual fact, it turned him into an unbelievably good cyclist. After that event, he was. He went on to win the VRs, the Victorian Road Series B grade. He won lots of races after training for bawbor, so it actually changed him as a cyclist and made him a better cyclist because of all those things that he improved his weaknesses and as athletes, whether you're a cyclist, runner, swimmer, or a triathlete, you want to create this fitness that enables you to not be scared about any goal that you select, that there isn't a goal that you're not capable of achieving in. And that's the point that I think is important here. Goal selection is important. There is no denying that there are courses that will suit some people better than others. So we need to understand that. And I really, in my coaching, I direct people to events that I think they will perform better in without changing too much. Because, let's face it, human beings resist change more than anything. And so you have to be like Sean and be really determined and strong and motivated to change everything about, you know, what you've been doing for the previous, however long a period of time. And the longer you've been doing it for, the harder it is to change. We know that human beings just detest change. They want to stay the same.

But with that said, you do find a lot of athletes coming to you with wildly different goals to what their strengths are. And it is a big philosophy of yours to, like you just said, push people towards their strengths. And you're often maybe arguing with athletes, saying, this isn't. This isn't your strength. What are you trying to do here? Go. And you're trying to really get them to stick to their strengths. And that is something that is really prevalent in a lot of your coaching. A lot of your advice to people is you're saying, stick to what you're good at. And some people could say that as maybe sucking the fun out of it a bit and just let me go do try something else. But you really know that people have a better experience. Or you tell me, why is it that you really have that philosophy and push people towards that?

I think I still want people to have an achievement that they can have, a memorable achievement. And look, taking Sean's example, he'll never forget that process that he went through and how hard that day was for him. He turned himself inside out. And I was watching that day in the car. I was his.

What's it called?

Helper for the day.

What's the French word for it? The team manager in the car.

Yes. The DS for the day. The director sporting for Sean on the day. And he was going through some awful periods, but his determination was incredible up that climb. It was. It was very emotional for me watching him how strong and how much determination he had. And it was a real lesson for me on people with the right mindset. Can achieve anything. And you know, we did talk in one of the previous podcasts about David Goggins determination and unrelenting capabilities. And when you think you're done, you're only at 40%, you've still got 60% left. And I was witnessing that with Sean. Every pedal stroke he was, you know, and he was passing lightweight climbers who had, who had done. And you know, that was inspiring. So I still want people to achieve good results no matter what they select. But it's clear that some events are more suited to you and you'll actually get a better result. And, and I don't want to say this, but the journey would be easier for you and easier to concentrate on improving your strengths and stay away from the weaknesses. Which is a really odd thing to say because my philosophy is if you build everything together, strengths and weaknesses, you will be a better, all rounded athlete. But if you come to me, and this is what we said at the start, it depends what your goal is. So the race is a goal. Depends what your goal is in the race or the event. It doesn't have to be a race, but certainly we're talking about events that are put on the calendar that you want to participate in. And what are you trying to achieve in that event? Is it just to complete it or is it to improve on what you've done before? Is it your first time at it? And you just like the idea of testing yourself. So understanding that is determining how you go about the next steps to achieve that goal.

So I'm an athlete, I've picked a goal. I've picked one of the major Ironmans or 70.3s. Whether I'm a beginner, intermediate or advanced, how do I go about figuring out what I can achieve?

Well, there's so much to that question.

I know it's a tough question.

To answer the question as simply as possible. It depends. And if you're a beginner, I can rattle through what the process is. If you're an advanced triathlete trying to do a pb, that's also another journey.

I guess the question is more geared towards a beginner because an intermediate or advanced indicates that you will have done some races before. So you've got a benchmark. So your goal is to improve the benchmark. And I'll ask a follow up question to that. But if I'm more of a beginner, whether I've done none or one, and even if I've done a few, I could still be classed as a beginner because I could be Performing way off, what my capabilities are. So how do I go about figuring out what's possible for me?

Yep. So the first thing we do is we try to try to establish what your capabilities are in the swim, bike and run. And how do we do that? It's just so simple. We just test you to see what your basic swim time capabilities are. Over 1500, over 2K, over 1K. Just getting a glimpse of, are you a reasonable swimmer, an advanced swimmer or an elite swimmer? Or are you, as I call it, a brick swimmer, where you're really struggling to stay afloat so you fit yourself into one of those categories, you find out, is swimming your strength? If so, great. We've established that. What are you like on the bike? What experience have you had on the bike as a triathlete or as a cyclist? And a simple test will tell us exactly where you sit in that category. And as a runner, what is your experience as a runner? What pace can you run at? So the three tests established firmly at the beginning of the program where your capabilities are, and that's not to say taking those results and putting them to the race day is going to be what we're trying to achieve. We are actually trying to find out where you're at now and what your experience is, so that if you've been swimming for years and you are still a poor to below standard swimmer, then it's clear that that is not something that is a strength of yours. If you're a beginner rider and you know in the first three weeks you ride 200 watts, then 220, then 230, then 240 over, you just keep improving. Well, it's clear that you've got more in you and that's one of your strengths. If running is something you've never done before, and you know, running is the biggest issue in triathlon, as we know, getting you to have a running fitness base is the key goal. And the times are quite irrelevant in the running because we want to get you to run the marathon. So that's a glimpse of how we would go about. A person who comes to us as a beginner, we establish what their strengths and weaknesses are by some simple testing. We look to see in the first period of the program how well they're improving across all three. And we keep making adjustments and obviously with a really organised, structured program, the improvement will come in each of the legs, barring injury or illness. So as we progress, we get a glimpse of how this athlete is responding to the structure based around what his weakness strengths are. And of course we concentrate on if he's a poor runner. We really hone in on the fact that we can't throw him into the deep end by giving him two hour endurance run straight away. He has to start with 50 minutes, etc. So as we progress through the program, we are continuing to retest and therefore establish new goals, new targets for race day. And just before race day comes, which might be week 30, might be week 50, might be week 20, we test them finally. And it's incredible seeing from week one test to week 18 or week 32 or week 40 test, the athlete can see themselves. Wow. I'm just as bad a swimmer as I was. But at least I'm fit in the water, which is one of the goals of swimming. Wow. I've improved my FTP from 200 to 250, which means I'm 2 or 3 kilometer an hour better, faster rider, which means I'm going to ride probably 20 minutes quicker than I would have had I not done this program. And I can run a full marathon without walking. And so we have a firm idea the week before race day what time you can actually do in this event. So selecting the goal and then selecting what your goal of the race outcome is are two really separate things. But they're entwined with each other because you know, the selection of the race and the actual way you go about training for it are together.

That's a really good answer. I guess the question was unfair in its nature because I was basically asking you to describe the coaching process which is an in depth process in itself. But I think there was a couple of things I'm looking to establish and one is what you've just answered and clarify this even further. I guess you don't really start the program if you're a beginner going, I'm aiming for 4 hours 30 for the half Ironman or 8 hours, sorry, 10 hours for the Ironman or 12 hours or 14 hours for the Ironman because you're going to be in the dark a lot because you've got such a lack of information. Your first test might give an indication, but you're going to be a long way off. So are you saying don't worry about exactly what time you're going to get, maybe until closer to the race?

Most definitely. But it's incredibly interesting to see the majority of people who come to me as beginners say I want to break 12 hours if I actually ask them, have you got a goal for the Iron Man? Oh, yeah, I'd like to break 12 hours, I'd like to break 10 hours. And I would absolutely take on board what they say. And I can't judge it because I have no idea of their ability and neither do they. And it always intrigues me as to how they come to that figure. So that's a discussion point that I have with them. And I would ask them that question. How have you come to work out that 12 hours is your goal? Tell me a little bit about your running history. Have you done any half marathons? If we're talking about an Ironman, what's the furthest you've run and what sort of time did you do for that run? So if someone says to me, oh, the furtherest I ran was 1 hour 20, I said, well what was your average pace for that? 1 hour 20. And they might say 6 minute K pace. And they've put themselves down as a three and a half hour marathon runner for the Ironman, which is 4:30 pace. So instantly it's unrealistic. So it's okay having these aspirational goals, but they have to be realistic. And it's really clear to them instantly I point those things out that oh, maybe that is impossible, maybe I need to reframe that. So it's really important that you have a clear understanding of before you start that running a 3:30 is not gonna be something that you could possibly do at this particular point in time. Week one of the program. Looking ahead because of your experience and what you've done in the past, what's the sort of longest ride you've ever done and what sort of pace could you do? Were you on your own in that ride? Were you with a group and just sitting in? So there's people get false senses of what their capabilities are. And we always say, don't get your ambition and your ability confused. And what does that mean? Well, what I want to do and what I'm capable of, they're completely two different things. And it's really good to aspire to higher levels, but it's got to be realistic. And the only way you can find out is by understanding your data. And we know that from hundreds of athletes that have, that have gone through the program where the minute they understand what their capabilities are, they can have ambitions and reach them, but they're not unrealistic.

So getting your ambition and ability confused would be aiming for a 330 marathon in the Ironman. If you're best marathon you've ever done was six hour pace, you know 4:30.

Pace and that's an extreme example. And for the bike, you know, if you're a beginner and the longest you've ever ridden is two hours, we have no idea whether you're a seven hour bike rider or a six hour bike rider or a five hour bike rider in the Ironman, we just have no concept. Because you haven't tested yourself. And just because you haven't done that doesn't mean you're not capable of doing five hours compared to seven. It just means that you haven't trained yourself. So it's going to be interesting to see what you're capable of doing.

Yeah. So that was going to be my next question is how do we know what's realistic and how far can you improve to what's realistic and what's just out of your capability in terms of your ability? And that comes in two parts. It comes in the first part being if you're a beginner. We know that the principle of diminishing returns means that you have a massive ability to improve and you have a lot of range that you could possibly improve. If you're an absolute beginner, you could potentially wipe off and you've seen people wipe off hours, hours of their time. And if you are more intermediate or advanced, you've had more experience, if you are training poorly and you have no race plan or no data or all the things we normally talk about, you could still improve an hour even if you've had experience. But if you are well trained and you have have that more experience and you're using data properly and all those things, your ability to improve is just in a smaller range. Is that correct?

Yeah, definitely, that's obvious. Yet beginner triathletes still, even though they start with one event, if they did five or 10, it's interesting, the stats that I see, they stay the same and there's lots of reasons for that because they don't do anything different from what they did on the beginning triathlon journey. And they got through the event so they think that that's what will work. So I'll just repeat that. Yet they have that much room for improvement and they're not using it. So we have the reversal of people aspiring to have goals that are out of their capabilities. And then we have people who have the ability to improve, who don't do it. So that to me is almost a shame. And we've got an example that many times and one recent one was taking on board a triathlete two weeks before an event or how Am I going to improve someone over two weeks? They improved by just having a race plan and executing it from data that was tested two weeks out. So instantly they improved without even training properly. Imagine how much the improvement would have been had they trained and had the race plan. So that's a great example of having the right structure and information that can set a realistic goal. And we knew going into that race what his swim, ride and run times were going to be pretty much from the testing that he'd done as long as he executed. And that was a skill in itself, executing. And he'd never done that before. Executing according to a race plan. And the enjoyment and almost the laughter on the phone was, oh, how good was that? I've improved incredibly. And I didn't actually do any training. I just. I just executed according to a race plan.

Yeah, that. We have some pretty powerful examples of that. And you can range from not doing anything different and keeping your training the exact same and your race plan exactly the same and doing and getting the same result every single time. And that's the worst thing to keep doing. And we commend people with their persistence to keep turning up and doing that, because you think if you're not improving, you must really be enjoying the sport. But the next thing is what you said. Just changing a race plan, not even improving your training, just having testing and having a race plan to stick to can increase your results. We've also spoken about doing a. Just doing consistent training, even if it's a poor program, even if it's not Tadata, even if it's not, the best thing will improve you because you're a beginner athlete. But the golden ticket is having a proper program with. With a proper race plan, training, consistently doing everything really structured, that is going to just yield the absolute biggest improvement. And you're going to get the most out of yourself doing it that way.

Yeah. And the key word or sentence is are you willing to change and adapt? And that's the question I ask at the start. Even if you're a beginner, I'm going to be asking you to do things that are going to be outside your comfort zone. So are you willing and do you agree that you will embrace that philosophy, that concept? And if I get hesitation there, I know the journey ends right there. If I hear someone go, yeah, yeah, I'll do whatever it takes, you just tell me and I'll do it. And I have athlete after athlete with that response, and then I have athletes going, well, I kind of like riding with my buddies and I do that almost every session. And if I get time to run, I will. Do I have to change much? And to me, I don't want to continue the conversation, I just don't. It's just their goal is not relevant to what they're going to do about it. And that's the worst type of scenario to be put in for both the athlete and for the coach. And I feel for that person because they still think that there's going to be a result that's going to be better than they've done before or they'll achieve a first time effort by just doing the same stuff. They actually don't need a coach because they're not going to change and do anything that's going to help them get a result on race day. And that's an example of people with selecting a goal but not willing to have goals along the journey to get the outcome that they want.

So another tough question which will be hard to give a black and white answer, but I want to know your coaching philosophy and what your mindset is around it. You get a lot of questions of people coming to you and saying, my PB is 2 hours 10 for the half marathon, I want to break 2 hours or my PB is 145, I want to be a 130 runner or for the marathon. We've had a clear example of Tribalo athlete Daniel, who was a 3 hour 20 runner and he said, do you think I can break 3 hours? How did you answer that and how do you go about it?

That was a, that's a, it was a great discussion with Daniel and he was one of those, I'll do whatever it takes. Jared, I, I, am I being, he's asking me, am I being too ambitious? And I said right at the start, I said, I don't know anything about your ability, Daniel, you know, give me some examples of what you've done. And we went through that in detail and, and I said, let's just see how you go after our initial testing and I think the 10k, he was middle 45 minutes, which is about right for 3:25 marathon. So everything was lining up for that. I said, you're going to have to be able to run under 40 minutes to break three hours, under 40 minutes for 10 kilometers to break three hours. So that was the discussion we were having. So it was clear in his mind he could see, oh, far out, that's 5 minutes better than I can run already over 10k, that's a big jump. But he Was willing to give it a go. And I'm willing to give it a go with anybody who's motivated, has got the mindset to do a Sean, do whatever it takes to achieve the best outcome they can. And the journey for Daniel, it's three years. You know, he. He went from 325 to 3 hours and 12 seconds in the first year, which was incredible.

It's a great improvement.

And the goal was to break three hours though. So anybody else, if it wasn't that magical three hour people be. If, say you went from 340 to 320, you'd be going far out.

Yeah.

That's incredible because we didn't break the three hours. And that's the goal question, isn't it?

Yeah.

Did you achieve your goal? Well, I improved incredibly, but no, I didn't. So we kept on that journey. And the next marathon he ran was literally under three hours and one minute again. And unfortunately, in all four marathons that he ran the course on his, Garmin said he broke three hours all four times, or actually three times on one. He was trying that hard. He actually blew up in the last 2 or 3K. But on the other three events he broke three hours. But unfortunately, 42.2 for the race is actually that course. And even though your garment says you ran 42.8 and you broke three hours at 42.2, it doesn't count. So that's a great example of someone who really changed everything about their program, followed it to the letter. Daniel was one of those athletes who you just love to coach because there was always asking questions about, you know, what's this for? And what are we doing here? And really inquiring questions about wanting to understand the purpose of each session. And I'm bored with the plan and going to B races and C races and putting himself on the line and practicing in those races to run to, plans to practice his race execution, testing regularly, developing his endurance runs. And he run 325 with not really running a lot of endurance sessions the way that we do it. And that was one of the more enjoyable experiences of someone who picked an unbelievably hard goal, which I had no answer to at the initial interview. But I, I was on board because of his attitude and his, his motivation. It wasn't, you know, I can still rattle off other people who've come the same journey, you know, many names of people like Daniel, like Sean, who have just set goals that are for me, just so far at the limit of their ability. But it just proved to me that many times that there is no goal. If you, if you want to put your mind to it, use the example of someone who wants to lose weight, you have the opportunity. You decide everything about that journey. You decide how much exercise you're going to do, you decide how much sleep you're going to have. You decide how much alcohol you're going to drink. You decide how much good food you're going to eat, how much crap food you're going to eat. So all that is your decision making. So you have complete control over the outcome. So you know this is no different. You've selected a goal, you have complete control over the outcome. How much training do you want to do? Have I got the right program? Am I doing all the 1 percenters where I'm eating well, sleeping well, getting massage, all the things that contribute to you achieving, you know, the things that Sean and Daniel did, you know, am I putting myself consistently in races? Am I testing myself? They're all things that you need to change in your behavior that will and in the end achieve the goal that you're trying to achieve. And had Daniel not broken three hours when we finally did it on the fourth go, I'm convinced he would have gone again. But we did it. And that was one of the special days of being an athlete and a coach for me.

They're your favorite days.

Yeah. And it just so happened that I was riding the bike on that journey with him around the Melbourne Marathon and couldn't get into the MCG to see him finish. But it was so good actually seeing him afterwards.

It's really inspiring hearing stories like that. And it really makes you want to go and achieve something and go and pick something that might be at the limit of your ability, but it just is so rewarding when you persist with it and such commitments. To Daniel for he could have just said, oh, Look, I've done 42.2km in 259. My watch says it, you know, know, even at the course, I ended up running a bit longer on the course. Whether you weren't cutting the corners fine enough or something, you could have easily just claimed it. But he just kept going. No, I want the official time for three years, which is. I just think that's awesome. And to be honest, I think that something you said to me a few years ago, we were talking about we would do this thing in the trivelo group where we would pick athlete of the week, performance of the week, and the Ironman was on, and you just said, I Can't pick one person because anyone that's completed an Ironman is inspiring. Completing an Ironman is one of the hardest things you'll ever do and, and getting through it doesn't matter what performance you gave is amazing. And often on this podcast we talk about how your goal shouldn't just be completion. You know, you want to get the most out of yourself. But what we. We don't mean that completing an Ironman is easy. We mean that getting through it and suffering through it is. Is just doing yourself a disservice. And get. Getting through it and having to walk and crawl on the bike and just completing it that way isn't as enjoyable as experience. But being able to get yourself to a fitness level where you may just be completing it in a certain time. It's not the most glorious time, but it's your best time and you've really trained yourself well to. That is what we're talking about by setting a goal.

Oh, for sure. And in that example, we had so many athletes who, they don't choose to suffer. They don't set a goal and say, great, I'm going to have the worst experience of my life, but I'll be happy at the end of it. That's definitely not what they're thinking, but that's actually what they're doing. And we know there's up to 90% of the people who do an Ironman go through that process. It's not intentional, but that's the result that happens because they've selected a goal and not being willing to go through the mini goals to get to an event that they can, and I'm not going to say comfortably an event that they can achieve the final result and not suffer as badly as they should have. And that's what goal setting is really about, is selecting something. That's the easy part really. I can. I'll just, I'll just select Port Mac, Iron man and enter. Well, that wasn't very difficult. But the hard part is actually preparing yourself and having these goals along the way and be willing to do whatever it takes to actually get down that final straight. You know, almost being able to kick your heels up and have a big smile on your face and have run the whole way, have ridden properly the whole way, have swum properly the whole way to your ability. And as you said, it doesn't matter that it's 14 hours. You could have been a 16 hour athlete and now you've done it in.

14 hours and not suffered so badly.

And not suffered at all, oh, yes, you know, it's been a hard day, you know, but everybody, it's a hard day for everybody, but it's a worst day for the 90% of the people. 10% of the people who achieve their goals are still struggling through the day at some point in time, but they know that they're, they're confident in what their preparation is, that it's just a period and their mental toughness steps in these are things that they're practiced anyway along the journey. So, you know, going into an Ironman, you know, there's going to be periods where there's dark, dark thoughts coming into your mind, but you've done that in training, so you just have to, you know, I always say your race day is nothing more than a training day, except you've got all these assistants along the journey helping you, you know, giving you drinks. And so if you can execute what you've done that many times in training on race day with help, it should be like that. That's the mindset. It should be. And of course there's days when you train and think, oh boy, I still got another hour out of six hours to go. This is starting to get really hard. But you know, that's what the mental training is about. In training, you know, the physical thing is you are getting tired, which makes you mentally think, oh, I'm pretty much had enough. But now I've had an experience of I have to decide, well, no, if I want to do better on race day this next hour, I have to concentrate. And that's an example of you draw on come race day. Well, I had 10 of those six hour rides that I was really feeling crap. This is no different for a period. And I'll come good.

What you said about it being unintentional, 90% of the triathletes out there, they go through this experience. It's unintentional that they do that. And I guess that is what we're trying to achieve in this podcast is to show people that there is a different way. And most triathletes just don't know a lot of this information about how to train better. And so they don't actually, they're not actually aware that their training is really letting them down and that there is better ways to go about it. So I guess that's the goal with why we're sharing all this information.

Yeah, and the topic of selecting a goal is crucial to the whole journey. So the phone call starts, I want to do this Ironman port Mac Busso Hawaii. I want to get Hawaii. And that's the first step in the journey is selecting. As we just said, it's the easiest step, but in some cases it's the hardest thing that you've decided to do because there's so many things that go into that decision. If you're married with a family and you run a business, can you imagine the time commitment that's going to be taken away from your family and from your business by training for an ironman? If you're, you know, retired and it's something you've got time to do, that's a different, you know.

Circumstance.

Circumstance to. To actually train in. You know, if you're single and you're in your 20s and you have no commitments and you've got time to train, it's such a. So there's already different presented scenarios that are going to make it easier or harder to get through this journey. And sometimes the sacrifices you make are the things that get the outcome at the end of the journey. But are you willing in the goal setting, are you willing to make those sacrifices? They're the questions that I ask right at the beginning. And are you willing to change everything about what you've been doing as you know it from this point on? And that's quite a shocking question to hear. What do you mean you want me to, you know, you want me to change? What things do you want me to change? Well, you know, you have to be planned around family and work. And if you're in that middle category which we talked about, not the younger or not the older, that is a real challenge. And there's going to be issues if no one else is on board with that and if it's just a selfish decision that you want to do and you're not considering other aspects of your life, it won't work. So the selection of the goal, I point those things out to people.

Yeah. And like you said, there's positives and negatives of all, whatever position you're in. Because if you're retired and you're older, it's harder to train, it's harder to recover. It's a tougher goal physically in your body. If you're younger, there might be more sacrifice in terms of your lifestyle and that socializing. Definitely. So always a sacrifice. So to finish off with you touched on in there, talking about mini goals. So you've got a big goal of the race and you have to sacrifice and understand the concept of mini goals. So what are you talking about there with mini goals and lead up races.

Yeah. And again if, if we, we don't want to generalize too much but as a experienced triathlete, a beginner triathlete and everything in between, the experienced triathlete still needs to have these mini goals just like the beginner does. The beginner needs it more. The beginner needs to understand what the, the actual details of the event are by doing it. So the mini goals are selecting races that going to help you understand how to execute come the real day, the a race day. So we have these little targets along the way and whether it's a testing target, whether we're finding out how well you're progressing with your swim, bike and run, or whether we put you into a race situation which is not the A race, it's the B or C race, but you get to practice the race execution and according to the numbers that you can swim right and run at. So these little mini goals are really important for the beginner. They're still absolutely important for the advanced, elite, even athlete because we need to know how they're progressing and if there's something that's not going well, we need to understand why. But for the beginner triathlete, this is crucial for them being as well prepared. Without these little mini goals along the journey they get to race day with no clear understanding of what is going to happen today. And that is quite a scary thought. You want to get on race day with an air of confidence but not over confident and an ease and calmness that you've experienced. What's going to happen in the next 10, 12, 14, 16 hours if it's an Ironman or 4, 5, 6, 7 hours if it's a half ironman. So that's such a great feeling knowing that you've hit targets along the journey of the program and come race day you have a plan and the only thing you have to do is execute. And that sounds like a very simple sentence to say the only thing you have to do. But really the race is in your hands. Your, your journey is in your hands. What you've just done has been a well guided coach based program that, that you have executed well. Now you're on your own but you've got all this information that you've gathered to actually execute your race day plan and that comes back from day one from the goal setting decision and what things you're going to change about your previous training experiences to get to this day. And you'll be so excited about it standing on that beach waiting for the.

Race to start that's a great way to finish. I think the best thing about goals is that it really gets you into such a motivated state and an inspired state. When you hear other people setting goals and achieving them and you hear something that sounds really challenging, it really lights a fire inside you. And I think that's the best thing about goals and why at the start you're so excited. But the important part is understanding once you've set that how to actually achieve it and have a good experience achieving it. I think there's a lot more we could talk about with goals. As always with these topics, there's still so many factors we haven't even mentioned that are quite important. We probably will go into them at some later stage. But is there anything else you want to touch on?

Yeah. If we went back to the very first sentence, you're in a bar or in a coffee shop and everybody's talking about the next event. Now that we've talked about this for 40 odd minutes, you would now have a different mindset about. You would say to yourself, does that event suit me? So you're already thinking differently. Just because the sheep mentality is six people are going to do, let's just say the Busselton Ironman in December. I want to be part of that. Well, you would now think differently. Am I able to achieve all the goals along the journey? Am I willing to change my program? Does this event suit me? They're the things that now you would have a better understanding of whether this is an event that should be your goal.

Perfect. That's a great way to finish. As always, if you want to get our Expert Secrets cheat sheet, and that's a cheat sheet that gives you the best tips and advice to train smarter and race faster. Go to getfastpodcast.com and if you want help with goal setting, if you want help with your programming, the best way is to get on our email list. You can go to our website travelocoaching.com to check out our programs. Otherwise go to getfastpodcast.com you will get onto our email subscription and we email weekly and that's the best way to see our programs. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.