Ironman Coach Reacts To INSANE World Champs

Huge episode today. I cannot wait for this one. We are going to break down everything that's happened at the Ironman World Champs, what we've seen as coaches, what we know from all the data, what went right and what went wrong for a lot of athletes. We're going to jump straight into it, but then later we've also got a deep dive into so many other things happening around the world, some, some notes on La Vuelta, what we noticed there, and the World Athletics Champs is on right now, and there's some crucial races we want to discuss. So Dad, let's just jump straight into it. What a World Champs that was. I know that Kona is the epitome of World Champs, but I will miss this race. Nice just provides so many developing elements of the race. It's, it's as good as a World Champs as you can get.

Could not agree more with you, Gerard. I, I actually, I love Kona. That's the, that's the, the historical birthplace of Ironman, and so I've got a distinct association with it having done it myself a few times. And, uh, but there's something about Nice that's actually grown on me, and I love the fact that it's super challenging, and it's the fairest course. And you don't get that advantage of sitting in as much as you do on every other triathlon course. And I think that's what's been missing in a lot of triathlon races is that, that pace line that we're so used to seeing. Well, on a course like Nice, it is so difficult to do that. We have so many ups and downs and so much elevation. And I think it's a great reflection of how good a bike rider you need to be to do well in this course. And I'm not talking about just climbing. I'm talking about descending. And you need to have some really good skills to, to be able to descend safely and fast. And there are a lot of guys who can't do that, and it really contributes to their downfall, but it also is a really positive card to play for those athletes who've got those super descending skills, a great ability to climb, and, you know, even Christian was talking about, you know, I need to be a little bit lighter for this course, because it's got so much climbing in it. And, and I, I just think it's one of the more fairer races so that on the day, we always say the best athlete should win, but in a lot of the races at the pro level, the group dynamics don't really make that true because you can, as we saw, with, with the Kona winner last year, which is Patrick Langer.

Yeah.

You know, he was able to really use the, the bunch aerodynamics of Kona to, to, you know, we all know how good a runner he is, and he still ran 2:31 here at Nice. But, you know, he is, you know, one of the all-time great runners in triathlon and always will be. Interesting that the Norwegians, or Casper in particular, they were within, I think they were within 5 seconds of each other, 8 seconds. What an amazing result. But But certainly, this course, if you're relying on getting a free ride, this is not going to happen on this course. So in that sense, the best triathlete should be the winner here.

Yeah, it's such a unique course in that the type of training you need to do and your race tactics change so much, and we saw so many different stories of different race tactics. And I just love the swings, you know, it wasn't so straightforward of of what's going to happen out of the swim and the bike times all being quite similar, there was just such drastic ranges of the swim. There was probably— there was a 2-minute gap between pack 1 and 2 and then probably a 3 to 4 minute gap between to the backpacks, which was the Sam Longs and Cam Wurfs there. And then the bike was a 30-minute variation between the front packs and the guys who rode a 4:30 and guys that were riding 4:45, guys that were riding 5 hours, 5 hours 10. Who still came top 30, you know, and then the run variation was the same. Those front guys, Kasper ran a 2:29, the Norwegians ran 2:30, 2:32, Patrick Lange ran 2:32, and then the next group are around the 2:38s, 2:40s, but there's still athletes running 2:50, 2:55 with unreal performances. So the swings are just so big, especially we talk about that all the time in triathlon, the bike leg and the run leg, there's 10, 15, 25, 30-minute swings there depending on which way you go and how well you perform.

So As a good example, George, look at Jonas, 6th and 7th place. Nick Thompson, we were kind of following the Aussie there, like he was right there with, with those guys off the bike within, within a minute or two. And, you know, really, really competitive swim, 46 minutes, a 4:30 bike, which is the same as what all the front guys were doing, Sam and Christian and Gustav.

Unbelievable bike from Casper.

And, and he's run a 2:48, and Jonas Stromberg beats, beats him by 3 minutes doing a 3— a 4:40 bike but a 2:36 run. You know, the strengths of the bike and the weaknesses of the run, swings and roundabouts, you know. Jonas actually probably executed better than Nick did, although Nick had a real crack. It's not a criticism, it's just, you know, can Nick run faster than 2:48? I'm not sure, but certainly he rode brilliantly, but at the expense of his run? Again, we don't know.

Yeah, this is the thing that you and I are talking about. We just wish we could sit in on the post-race reviews with every athlete and see their data, see their decision-making, see where they had time to gain and had time to lose, because you don't know just on the times whether, you know, that was as fast as Jonas could go or he held back and then ran a 2:36. But Nick Thompson far exceeded his, what we call, almost expected result. You know, a 7th place for him was just absolutely phenomenal despite, you know, a 2:48 run, which in any Ironman course is unbelievable after the hills of Nice. Is phenomenal. It's just the fact the standard is insanely high now that he's 18 minutes off the winner of that marathon. You know, that's a, that's a huge swing again. So I love that example, Jonas and Nick. You know, Nick was 10 minutes ahead on the bike and Jonas was 12 minutes ahead on the run and ended up beating him by 2 and a half minutes. So, um, yeah, the story I want to go into is the Norwegian harp train is back and I absolutely love it. I'm all about it. I love that years ago it was all about the Norwegians and then a new crop came through and it wasn't just about them. They started losing races because they they looked invincible for a while, and it's been this just crazy journey over the years of, are they good again, are they not, you know, is Norwegian hype, is it worth it, or is it, you know, did they just have a good run? And look, the Norwegian podium was spoken about before the race, but I myself, like most people, thought, of course, you can never write them off, that is an option that could happen, but I gave it very little percentage of actually happening. And Since last year, Kristian's disaster at Kona, you know, he has put his head down and he's barely put a foot wrong. The races he's turned up to, he's won. He's trained like a maniac. But then Gustav has had a really tough few years, and Casper is the third one out of those three, you know, hasn't won a major championship. So for them to do a podium in that order, which is absolutely phenomenal, and that was honestly unbelievable to watch. Some of the, some of the best Ironman racing you could ever see.

Look, we were having a three-way conversation with you, with Liam, your other brother, and I was listening to Craig Alexander, who I love his commentary, and Jan's commentary, and, and I was just trying to watch their body language, and I was getting frustrated with Christian because I felt like he was getting a free ride the whole time, and, and, uh, I was very clever. I, I, I was, I was, I couldn't work out whether he was bluffing or whether he was actually not able to, uh, get to the front and attack. And so it was really interesting dynamics. One minute he looked like he was gone, then he looked like he was back again. And the fact that those, those 3 were running so bizarrely weird, and Kasper was the only one who stuck to his guns, whereas Gustav really surged. You know, we wanna talk about that a little bit. When they got off the bike, they lost 30 seconds in transition, which was kind of a wasted— I just thought, what are you guys doing? You came in together, but you lost all that time you'd made up on the bike. I just thought that was really lazy, and I was kind of disappointed. I was going, how does this happen when you're 5 of you coming together and then you lose 30 seconds? 30 seconds is a lot to make up.

I really want to hone in on that point. I think Sam came in 7 to 10 seconds ahead, and then yeah, came out of transition 30 seconds ahead. That is a big difference in a marathon. And I said to you guys at the time, Christian and Gustav caught him within a couple of kilometers, 2 to 3 kilometers. And I was going, I think that's a big mistake because we don't know their timing, their pace is live. It's, you know, we don't get that in the footage. But I'm going, you know, if Sam's averaging 3:30 pace, that means that Christian and Gustav have around 3:15 pace or 3:20 pace, you know, 10 or 15 seconds faster to catch him in the first 2, 3 kilometers. Faster to catch him. And that's coming out of the gates really hot, you know, and they're the lactate kings. That's pushing them over that edge, which is so risky for a marathon. And you know, you got frustrated at all the surging. They're racing, but you're saying that costs you in a marathon because the swings and roundabouts of the marathon can go either way really quickly.

Well, if we look at all three of the runners, the only person who didn't surge was Casper. Gustav surged once to catch up to Sam Laidlaw um, uh, initially, and then he— I think he felt that Christian was struggling, and the only way to beat Christian was to surge on him. So he did it again, and Casper dropped off. Remember when, uh, Gustav attacked after they passed Sam Laidlaw? Um, Casper dropped off that and said, that pace is too hot for me, I'm staying with my pace. And what a great decision that was. That actually probably that move that Gustav made cost Gustav the event and allowed Casper to make a great decision, which actually won him the event. And that's the bit that I wanna, you know, it's an Ironman and a marathon in the same race. You can't flirt with, with paces. And we're, we're adamant that you need to run early conservative or just at your, at your, at your pace that you've selected and try to hang on to it. And to throw in 4 or 5-minute periods where you're running 3:20s or 3:15s when your, when your pace is 3:30, I think that's a huge risk, and it backfired on them. And, and, you know, a lot of people will say kudos for them for really having a go and attacking it. Well, I just don't think endurance races have got that, that element in them that you can be so confident that you can throw in periods of 3:15s, 3:10s, and not pay a consequence of that decision.

Yeah, and Kasper confirmed it in an interview after. He said, you know, I went out at my 3:30 pace, which he averaged for the marathon. You know, this is the Traveller Method we talk about. You should start slower than or what you're going to average for the whole thing. And he averaged 3:30 pace to run a 2:29, and he said they were going 3:20, 3:15, which I'm so glad he gave us that data because that was what the inkling looked like on the screen. He said, I just decided to stick to my plan. And you're exactly right, they're surging between 3:15, 3:20 pace, having to slow down to 3:40 pace because they're gassed and different things are happening. That's a harder way to run, to bounce between that, whereas he just keeps that solid pace. That's how to run a marathon, that's how to finish an Ironman, but that is also how to finish any race, whether it's 5K, 10K, half marathon in the 70.3, or Ironman. It's the exact same thing. And even the best runners in the world, the guys who are so good like Gustav and Kristian, their bodies at the end can't handle that pressure, whereas Casper just stayed in that range and really came home strong.

And we always say to a lot of our athletes that we coach, you know, the response is, I felt so great in the first 5 or 10K, and I felt like this pace was really easy. And we're saying, well, that's a, that's a fair enough answer, but it's not a 5 or 10K event, it's a 42K event. And so you're trying to measure your effort across the 42Ks. And we're talking particularly here about professionals, but as an age grouper, to get a coaching tip from this event, you can't afford to run ahead of yourself, above yourself, when the event is over 42K. It could be a 4-hour marathon goal that you're aiming at. Why run at a 3:45 hour pace early on in the race and then end up running 4:15, 4:20 hour pace at the end? You know, you're better off just running— it's an easier day if you just run 4-hour pace the whole way. And, and it feels, feels much better at the end when you're not fading at that 4-hour 20 pace You know, because you're slowing down and, and if someone goes past you who's running better than you, you just wish you were them. And, and you, if you, if you dug into their, to their world, you'd see that they are pacing it quite well. And that, and the pacing can make or break your day regardless of your preparation. Whatever you do on the day should be totally relevant to your preparation. That's the plan you should have. But if you go ahead of that and, and be a little bit undisciplined, And, and I get why they were doing it because they had tactics, but I just feel you gotta be so careful having tactics in an Ironman marathon where, you know, you can't have surges like a 1500 or a 5K, uh, race, you know, that you can recover from. In a marathon, if you do that too early, you've got to— look at Christian. He, he nearly didn't finish. He, he was getting cramp in those last 2K. If you get a really severe cramp, you can't actually move. Believe me, I've actually been in that position. And yeah, um, you know, at Kona it happened to me. I was— I could not function, um, until I got some nutrition into me. I could move again. But, but it's so debilitating if you've got full body cramp, which, if anybody's ever experienced it, it is— you can't move. And yeah, he wasn't far away from walking, and he could have gone from 3rd in the— in 2K, he could have gone from 3rd to 5th. Um, just by those decisions.

Yeah, and as you've mentioned before on the podcast, that's what happened to you at the World Champs, you know, when you were in top 10, something like 6th place at the marathons. Not 39K, it's 42K, and at the 39K mark you had the same full body cramps as Christian. You literally couldn't get to the finish. You slid from 6th to 23rd in 3 kilometers, and that's the race over when you, you know, you're in the vicinity of and the realm of guys like Mark Allen and Dave Scott, and then slip back. That's how debilitating it could be. That's why you're so passionate about this. But, um, Christian said himself that he didn't feel good at all when he was kind of just hanging on. And look, we talk about this in hindsight all the time, but this kind of tactic of surging a little bit worked for Gustav in 2022 when he had Christian on his tail and he was surging and he was on for that day and he was just really in peak form. And so he could handle those surges and not many athletes can, but he was able to surge on Christian then and get away from him and win the world title. So you can see why he had that tactic again. And I think between the three of them, Casper said in an interview after, there was a couple of tensions around the pacing and taking turns, exactly what you were saying. You were going, Christian's not going to the front here. And we always say in the podcast, if they're not doing a turn, it's probably because they can't, you know, not because they want. And Casper said, oh, I sort of yelled in frustration at Christian, said, I'm not dragging you to the finish. And then he felt a little bit guilty because he said, oh, this is ironic because Christian just drags me around in training. And the one time I'm ahead of him is in the actual world champs race. But that shows he was on his limit.

Yeah, and Christian also said that, you know, I've got every prerogative for you guys to drag me to the finish and I'm going to sprint past you and beat you all.

You don't have to do anything in a race.

I thought it was— I thought that was hilarious. But, uh, but yeah, certainly, um, I think, um, you know, tactics play a role, but you, you just can't flirt with it. You, you know, the, the disciplined athlete is, you know, when we look at Gustav, I, I'm, I'm passionate about this because you can only be a lot more confident when you've done the work. And, and Christian, uh, Gustav has had probably the worst 2 or 3 years of his career, uh, where there's a lot of things that have happened to him with his, his mother passing away and his injuries and not being able to train. And so you don't have that, that bank of fitness like he had before 2022, where he'd had 5 years of uninterrupted training. Um, he, he was almost invincible, um, the same as Christian was. And they had this great training block, um, I'm not talking about a 16-week block, I'm talking about a 4 or 5 year block, um, where, you know, and now he's coming into another race like at this level where they're, where they're breaking all sorts of records in the, in the bike, on the hills, uh, and in the marathon. You know, anybody who could run under 2:40 would definitely win a race, you know, a year ago. Now you have to run 2:29 to win. And so, so, you know, Gustav just didn't have that fitness bank that he'd had before, but he had the, he had the determination and the tactics, but he just didn't have, uh, that base to, to back it up, unfortunately. I loved his attitude and, um, everything about the race was, was, was brilliant, but you just got to be super careful. And I think, I think Casper really reiterates how we want athletes to, to race, which is stay in your lane, and watch those around you, uh, you know, make mistakes. And if you don't make a mistake, you're going to probably end up on top.

I just wanted to look up what Gustav did in 2022 at Kona, and look, he's running— he ran a 2:36 to win there, which at the time was a, um, new run course record. That just shows that was 3 years ago. And then he's run a 2:34 here to come third. Um, so, you know, we can't really fault his form that much. He hasn't had that race experience, sure, but we got second, not third.

You got second.

Oh, sorry, second, yeah. Oh, sorry, so he's run 2:32 for second. Yes, sorry, I was looking at Christian there. So he's run 4 minutes quicker and lost and come second. It's unbelievable what's happened. But there's such great little data points and stories I want to bring up here, which is just so key for us to learn. And you hear so many little things that happen in the Ironman. And again, the result sheet is just not even 1/10 of the story. It's like an iceberg. The result sheet and the times show that top 10%. Underneath every athlete in an Ironman across 8 hours is going through a range of things. And Casper, this is so great for our athletes to remember, we say this to athletes all the time, Casper woke up in the morning, had stomach issues, he had a really bad stomach in the morning, and he was puking in the morning of the race. That is not a good omen. And we would get so many athletes kind of get to that point, and you can get in your head and think race over. But, you know, he just did his processes, went through it, the issues went away by the time he got to the bike, and he came through and became world champion. That's such a good learning, I think, that not everything has to go perfect for a good race.

Yeah, no doubt about that. And, and just, uh, being in control of your own destiny. I think, I think that's what he did. Even though he's with two of the greatest triathletes that have been in this generation, he's like the quiet achiever, the third, the third person, the third brother or sister in a family who's standing there being quiet the whole time. And here he is, he, he just outshines them. I think that's a, a really good example for all those age groupers to just stay in your lane and, and don't try to sensational things, no matter what's going on in your world, like stomach issues or, or guys seem like they've run away from you or riding away from you. You know, if you just follow your— and stick to your structure and your process, it may not work all the time, but it's more than likely it'll work more than risking these, uh, these really outlandish attacks and stuff in, in an endurance race like a, like an Ironman.

I want to talk about data versus fear. We talk about this balance all the time, you know, using data versus using how you're feeling and, and getting that balance right. And I don't know if this is a little bit of a jab at their ex-coach, but they really made a point to say in their post-race interview that they got rid of such a scientific approach, which is what they were known for, you know, really strict lactate testing, really strict measurements, and they got the measurements wrong last year when, when Christian completely overfueled and was vomiting on the bike. And they self-coached themselves this whole prep for this Ironman. They, they felt like they know enough information now, they've got enough experience, and they, they used each other for feedback. They really specifically said they didn't use so much lactate usage in training. And they went more to feel with training and the race. And I think that's really, really important. You need to learn data, and trust me, they had 10 years of learning how to use data to get to this point. But you also need to not be a robot to data and use how you're feeling as well in training and racing. And that's juxtaposed by the fact that their next statement was they said they were surprised by how fast the climbs went compared to training. And they were— they said specifically they were pushing 20 to 25 watts lower on the hills than in the race than in training because the drafting effects, the people around them, the motorbikes. But to me, that's such an underrated little sentence. They know their data so well, they were so well prepped, they know exactly what wattage they should be doing on the climbs. They were pushing 25 watts lower. That could send a lot of athletes into a spiral, but they go, hang on, but we're going quicker. This is fine. So they sat there comfortably going, this is great, we're pushing less watts, expending less energy, but the race is going really well. We don't need to change anything. And that's them knowing their data but being really smart racers.

Yeah, and I think, uh, you gotta be careful, uh, when you come to judgment calls about, uh, what they've been doing previously and what they've been doing now. And you said it quite well, they've learned so much about what, what lactate number equals this power and this speed. And so they've learned that, so they don't need to keep testing. I mean, your lactate levels will change, there's no doubt about that. As you get fitter, as you get less fitter, the lactate levels go up and down slightly, but not a great deal. So if you've lab tested yourself over and over, you know 1.4 millimoles of lactate equals 285 watts. That is within a range of 270 to 295. So, you know, you've already got that information. You don't need a lab technician to keep telling you that all the time. You can go out and train using that data. So they are still using a lot of the data in their training and in their racing, even though they like to say that we're doing it less strategic and less statistical bound, but at the end of the day, they're still using it. And—

Yes.

And look, people think that we only use data. I'd say to a lot of our athletes, we had, you know, a lot of athletes do another race on the weekend here in Australia, the Sunny Coast 70.3. My first thing was, we've got all this information about what you should be doing in your race plan, but the number one thing we trust the most is how do you feel? And if the power number that you're looking at on the screen feels like it's too hard, I'm trusting that it feels like it's too hard over the power number. So if it feels like it's too hard, guess what? It is. And you need to back off despite what the number's telling you. Because on the day, if you keep pushing, that number may be wrong. Your power meter may be reading incorrectly. So feel is the number one thing you should trust ahead of everything else.

Because then you might ask the question, well, what's the point of data then? Well, the data is there to eliminate risk and make as smart decisions as possible, but it's not a robotic number that you have to stick to. And it's, it's one of our pet peeves when an app athlete says to us after a race, you know, I rode so fast but my power was down, and we go, who gives a crap? You rode your best speed, something was off with the power. And like the Norwegians found, you know, in a race generally it's a bit lower, but we use that to have the best informed decisions possible because if you don't have that, you're guessing and you're at a higher risk of overexerting effort or underdoing it and not being within a range that you can perform to.

But don't forget, Gerard, you know, you could end up with 200 watts as your average and ride 250 in the first half and ride 150 in the second half. And you've ended up with the, the right number. And, and, you know, the reason we use data is to stop that happening. We want to— it's a harder experience to ride 250 than 150. You're fading that bad, you're 100 watts down. That's an extreme example, I know. But, but the power, heart rate, speed, cadence, they're all things to use to stop yourself from doing that so that you can actually start, like, use Casper's marathon pace. Like he wants to run 3:30. I'm not running 3:22s. I'm not, I'm not trying to run 3:40s. I'm trying to run 3:30 the whole way. That's my job. Yeah, that's my job today. And if that's good enough, then I'll take that. But if it's not, um, I'm happy because that's, you know, and if I can run 3:25s in the last 4 or 5K in a marathon, which I highly doubt you can, um, then good on you. But, but that's the point we're trying to make. It's guide you early to stop you from, you know, sabotaging your own day.

I wanted to ask you about teamwork because we saw then that, you know, it was— there was a pack of 5 of them on the run and then it turned into, you know, the 3 Norwegians. But what do you think about teamwork? We talked about the rivalry and pacing off each other, but, um, how much of a benefit is that, um, to actually, uh, race together as a team? And, and really specifically for the Norwegians, they've done this 10 months of training together, they're living in each other's pockets, they're doing training camps together. So in the race, it's pretty special for them to have that 1-2-3, and we saw how well they celebrated. But, you know, in 1988, you kind of did the same thing. You trained as a group in Australia, you all went across to Kona, which was really special to go to the World Champs together. Your first experience at such a violent and harsh course, you know, what was that camaraderie like? And especially the first time, I know you crossed the line with a teammate, you know, how does that impact your performance and your energy on the day?

Yeah, definitely. It's, uh, I've got two camps. I I'm torn a little bit. I'm almost sitting on the fence. I think if you can get a group of people that are similar, like-minded to you and have the same philosophies and, and are on board with what, what you think is right for you, the minute you start following someone else and it's not good for you, then that could actually be so much more detrimental than training by yourself. So, so I think if you've got a really good understanding of where your current form is at any stage and you've got a group of people that you want to spend some time with training. Like, these 3 guys are reasonably similar, but it— even, even all of the, the YouTube clips that I saw, I didn't see Casper or Gustav on a track where they were in front, or on a bike where they were in front, or in the pool when they were in front. Christian was on the front every single training session clip that I saw. And so does that mean that Gustav and, and Casper, uh, training above their level and could detrimentally put themselves into the— into a hole because they're actually training too hard and not getting enough recovery. And is Christian the only one who's training at the right— the right numbers? But as it turned out, Christian was third place out of those two, and he'd been— he'd been the leader the whole way around, um, that— that— that buildup I'm talking about. So as an example, there's so many positives and negatives with the group dynamics. You've got to get the right people that are similar to you that that you don't want to be the best person in that group because you want to be pushed a little bit. And we use that in TriValley a lot where we, we tell guys to go in a local bunch ride if they're a cyclist, or a running group if they're a runner, where we use it once or twice in a, in a 6-week block where go and do that event with those guys to get pushed. And it's also a good idea if you get you to get used to competition where you've got people who could distract you from your own, uh, plan. And because everybody else is running 5 or 6 seconds faster than you, you do that as well. You run 5 or 6 seconds faster than you should. And that's a good experience to do that once or twice, and you won't do it many times after because it's a horrible experience to have to do that. So, so I'm a bit torn. There's, there's some really good value in it. And, and certainly, I found that when I was new to the sport, it, it helped me with some sessions here and there. And look, I, I think I've told you the story. I did do some sessions with, with the group dynamics, but 95 of my sessions were by myself, and I picked certain sessions, Gerard, that I wanted to do to see where I was at with these guys who were better than me. So I was actually selecting, uh, on a Saturday every third Saturday to go, go down to Geelong to see, you know, can I— am I— have I improved in the 3 weeks since I've been here? Am I better in that, that pack dynamic? And, and I was doing my own thing, but then getting, getting that feedback. But rather than training with them, it was more, uh, testing myself against them. Um, so yeah, there's— it's a, it's a tough one.

What about in-race? Because one thing I do love to see, that no matter how much rivalry there is in competition. And these guys want to win more than anything. Every single guy in that race has the dream of winning and dedicates their lives to it. But I love seeing whenever an athlete passes another one, you know, someone's going backwards, someone's coming through the field, there's always a bit of camaraderie, there's always an encouragement, you know, there's always a little tap, just come on, because they're all going through a very shared experience of just how freaking brutal this race is. So what are your thoughts on seeing that and and experiencing that as teammates in the Ironman World Champs?

I've got two trains of thought. One is, one is I don't like it, and the other one is I love it. The I don't like it bit is if I'm on a time trial bike and I'm concentrating on where I am in the course, what the wind's doing, what's my speed, what's my power, I shouldn't really be looking around to see where other people are, what's happening. I should just be concentrating. But I have been, I have been guilty of just, you know, keeping an eye on, you know, when you're looking up the road, oh yeah, you see a fellow TriVelo athlete, so you're gonna, you're gonna give them a wave. But, but that's, that's the thing. I, I think you should be concentrating a little bit more on your own thing. Um, uh, so that's, that's a negative. But I think it's really great to have that camaraderie amongst, uh, training partners and people you know. Um, I'm all for that, but, but not at the detriment of your own performance. Um, once you start thinking about the wrong things then it's going to influence you. So the example I'd give is Ash Gentle, the Australian girl who won the Riviera T100. She's got this thing with Paula Finlay, my memory is failing.

Canadian.

The Canadian. And I love it. They've got this little thing when they're going past each other in the run, they just give each other a little bit of a low high five. It doesn't affect them. The race is pretty much over at that stage, but they've done this regularly, and I think it's really good. I, I think that's, you know, that's good sportsmanship. It's easy to do when you're winning, but it's good sportsmanship when you're not winning. And Ash has done that, and so is Paula, whether they're winning or not. I think it's fantastic that their respect for each other— and I've seen a lot of athletes running past, uh, an athlete who's been in the lead and passing them, and they're, they're either giving them encouragement because they know that it's easy for the athlete who's winning to give encouragement, but it's, it's a bigger effort for the athlete who's really not happy with the world, who's, who's getting passed, to be gracious, to do something back. And I think that's— I think the sport needs that. And look, being kind to each other is, you know, sure, we're competitors, we want to beat that person, but there's a line where you where you shouldn't cross, and, and there's also another line where you should cross, which is looking out for one another in a way that's not affecting you.

My last point on the Norwegians, because we've spoken about them for half an hour, but I think they deserve every bit of this praise and kudos and this amount of time spent on them because they just, they're, they're really good for the sport, is that they always get the details right. I'm just so impressed by, over the years, how forward-thinking they are. You know, for Tokyo, they were the ones at the forefront of going, okay, what What's it going to take to win Tokyo 4 years out? And they started experimenting with heat protocols way before everyone else was doing it publicly. You know, and for this same prep, it seems obvious, but they did a full 6-week training camp in Nice, you know, 6 months ago, you know, really preparing for the course, understanding the details, going, what do we need to ride to win this race? And working backwards from there. And pre-race, when they were there last week preparing for Kona, you know, Kristian said it was great to come back and everything felt familiar. The course is familiar, all the turns, the route. They were just so comfortable and that makes a massive difference and they go to that detail. Often in training programs that can be an afterthought, you know, it can be do all this training and figure out the details of the race later. But once you pick your race, you should start from there and go, okay, what's it going to take for me as an age grouper to perform well at this race? Where's my weakness? What's the course like? What do I need to work on? That's a really, really important point, I think.

Yeah, and look, we absolutely say that to every one of our TriVelo athletes. What race have you selected? What are the requirements of that race you've selected? Is it a hilly, flat, windy, sunny, cold? You know, find out the information, be prepared. And it is difficult. For example, the guys coming from Australia to go to Nice, they can't just fly across from Europe, from wherever they are in Norway to Nice. It's a, you know, that's, you know, Australians have to travel 24 hours on a plane to go from one side of the world to the other, whereas if you live in Europe, it's easy to do that. I'm not saying it's easy, it's, it's much more practical to be able to do a 2-hour flying plane trip. And so people who live in Australia or live in America, who live in Europe, should be doing races that are local to themselves, and they can actually go and do some recon. And look, I'm talking more about, uh, the elite age groupers. Um, the age grouper who just wants to to achieve the goal of getting fit enough to have a great performance, that's not so important. Uh, the requirements of the course are, and you can do that in your own area, but, but when you want to recon the course so that you are really trying to win your age group, I think that's, that's different. And look, we know that, uh, you know, when I prepared for Kona, we had to go through an Australian winter, which people would say, oh, Australian winters aren't anything like the European winters. That's true. But we, we end up in October where we've seen no sun, and we have no heat acclimatization. And, and I think, you know, one of our, one of our athletes who went to, to Nice this year, Stevie Mack, who's, you know, he's the world duathlon champion in his age group, and he has aspirations of doing well in this event. And we knew he needed heat acclimatization, but it was impossible for him to get that, uh, where, where he lives unless he was willing to leave his job and his family and and go to Northern Queensland here in Australia and get that. So, so we knew that that was going to be an issue, and it turns out that was an issue because he went through his nutrition more than he thought he would have and, and ended up sort of being a little bit low on it. But he resurrected it and came back and ended up running a 2:59 marathon. For an age grouper at 48, 49 years of age is, is pretty spectacular. And to be running, you know, 4:10 to 4:15 from start to finish with, I think, 1:420 kilometer in that, and you know how hard that wind was on that day. And, you know, these are examples of someone who's really well prepared, but, but we couldn't actually factor in the heat. Um, and of course you can do your own heat acclimatization in a, you know, in a, uh, a room, but it's not the same. It's just not the same, um, as, as getting— the guy was in Europe, in Europe for the, for this summer And my Garmin, for the first time ever, told me that I was 100% heat acclimatized. And I'd had, I'd had 4 weeks of 32 to 34 degree days, you know, 4 weeks in a row. And my body got used to it, so I wasn't even struggling with the heat. Um, but you know, coming from your winter to, to a race where it's just hot, um, it's a shock to the body and you don't perform the same way.

I'll say that. I've, I've been living in, in Indonesia for over a year. And it has taken me 11 months for my heart rate response to be the same as it was in cool conditions on my easy runs. It's— and it feels really cool now, but it's taken that long. For 11 months, my heart rate was consistently 5, 10, 15 beats higher in, in the easy efforts, and even my threshold efforts have started to come a lot closer. But there's still a gap that I think will always be there, but it's such an important reminder. Big shout out to Stevie Mackey. He did go to the World Champs hoping to go as well as possible in his age group. And he had a blinder swim, which was phenomenal. He had a blinder run in 2 hours 59. The bike came a little bit unstuck and he definitely had a little bit more in him, which is frustrating for him based on that nutrition. But what a performance to come 6th in his age group in the world. He left no stone unturned in training, absolutely elite preparation. And to run a 2-hour 59 is superhuman for that level. So the World Duathlon Champ, 6th in the world at the Ironman World Champs, very, very special.

Yeah, and, uh, we had a couple of other athletes go as well, Ben and Gus, whose only goal was to be a part of the World Championships. And that's the type of athlete that we love to have, who's, who's aspired to, to get to a world title race and just to enjoy and soak up the atmosphere. And boy, did they have— they had a really great time. And, and yeah, they, they had a race plan and they trained as well as they could And the outcome was that they were extremely satisfied with their day. And, and that's, that's just as important. I want to get that message to everybody. You know, as long as you've performed to your potential, that's a win. And it doesn't matter whether you're 250th in your age group or whether you're 6th, um, to perform to your potential like we talked about on previous podcasts, that's what this is all about, getting the most out of yourself on the day that it counts.

Any other favorite performances? There was 53 pro athletes down 13 DNFs out of the pros, which just shows how brutal this race is for various reasons. 13 of the best athletes, best Ironman athletes in the world DNF this race. So anything else stand out for you?

Yeah, I think, I think understanding that you just can't race against others, you still have to have some, uh, self-preservation. Otherwise you will end up with one of those— it's nearly a third, um, you know, 13 is 4— a third is 40 athletes. So there's 53, so it's just under a third of the athletes DNF'd. And that's just, you know, we don't know the individual details, but, but that's a big number for DNF. And, and that shows you, if you haven't got self-preservation as the number one priority, you know, you, you should be thinking about that at all times, whether you're a pro or whether you're an amateur age grouper. You know, try to measure your efforts so that you can enjoy the thing. And we, we're not asking you ever to go above your level at any point in these endurance races. These are, these are, you know, 7 hours to, to 17-hour ranges. So you've gotta respect the event and a little bit of self-preservation will allow you to get through it. Getting through the event is the challenge. Uh, getting to the event is another challenge. But on race day, there's so many people who I guarantee out there were thinking, I I don't think I can finish this marathon. I'm gonna— it's gonna take all of my willpower to keep going here to get to the finish. And, and those who do do that, they're super proud of their, their effort, even though it might not have been the time they wanted. But to actually overcome that desire to— I just want to lie down, I just want to stop and lie down, um, because I am so exhausted and I've got it wrong somewhere along the day. Um, but yeah, so, so I think I think that's a testament to how hard this event is. And, you know, these guys wouldn't just DNF, you know, for— because they're living to fight another day. This is the one race they want to do well in. And, and, you know, most athletes have got that mindset that DNF's not an option unless there's something wrong.

Yeah, I want to— I do want to shout out, um, Gustav's story. I just want to make sure everyone remembers and, and can take this lesson that you know, it's not going to go well all the time. And he was at the absolute epitome and peak of his career by winning the Ironman World Champs in 2022, and it all came crashing down very quickly within a 12-month span where he lost his mother and he got pretty badly injured. And it was whether that was all, um, you know, combined that we know that, you know, the stress of the body can drastically be correlated to and cause injury. Uh, he was in a big hole emotionally, physically. His world was turned upside down. It was absolutely devastating to watch. And he spoke about pretty candidly that he just had lost the will and motivation to train when he lost his mother. And it was just really emotional thinking about that story and, and how far back he was. You know, he had a real, really tough fall from grace to the point where he was turning up to a triathlon barely knowing if he could finish an Ironman, running to, you know, a tenth of his capability. He had to be so humble in so many races, turning up to the start line completely underdone, a tenth of the athlete that he was, knowing he was going to come last in the pro field. That is hard. That is bottom of the barrel to come back from, from someone like him. Been a long journey since then and a pretty quiet preparation. And a lot of people pegged him for, you know, a great performance this week and knowing his history, but gee, it's much easier said than done. And I just thought to myself, if he gets on the podium like a lot of people are predicting, that is a monumental effort. And to be leading the race and coming second, you almost had a tear to your eye watching that. I just think, wow, what a journey. It just shows the cyclical nature of performance and from the top to the very bottom and back to the top again. For me, that was the performance of the week. Of the day.

Yeah, I really agree with you. And, uh, you know, the journey, as we all talk about, is, is kind of as, as important. And that's what was emotional for him, um, is, you know, the placing is fantastic where he ended up, but, but the expectation of that happening— he was super confident that that could happen, so he was spot on. But, you know, that journey of where he's been, he's had a tough time. So I think that's, that's a great story for, especially as a, as a professional. I'm Yeah, I loved it. It was great.

We're being spoiled for sport right now, but we want to touch on the World Athletics Champs, which is so, so exciting, and just touch on some coaching points we've noticed there. And even before that, La Vuelta just finished, the third major Grand Tour in cycling, and we won't spend much time on that. It's a great victory by Jonas, but I just want to talk about a little bit of a missed opportunity, I thought, from Tadej Pogačar and UAE, because the UAE team kind of blew up with the rival team between Ayuso and Almeida. And who's the leader and not working for each other. And they came to the Vuelta with aspirations with Tadej not there, you know, someone else gets a chance to win and they end up infighting and no one wins. But just, we speak about that so often in triathlon, and this is the Gustav example, and we want to give another example with our athlete right now about this, one of our own athletes. Opportunities don't come around all the time and you want to save them when they come because too many athletes are in peak form, they don't appreciate that they're in peak form at the time, and it gets taken away from them. And then they'll spend the next year wishing they were back in that peak form. And Tadej this year had a chance to do the triple, to do the Giro, Tour de France, and La Vuelta, and chose not to do it to be selfless for his team. Plus he was freaking exhausted, and we can see that now. He's so, so tired, so there's no guarantee he would win. But not many athletes get the chance to win 3 Grand Tours in a year. But the example I want to use is our own coach Matt, who had an unbelievable 4th 70.3 age group win over the weekend and a 2nd overall age group win. So the fastest time of the day excluding the pros. That is just— to put that on your palmarès as an age group athlete is phenomenal. He had a great race, but he had a good lesson for us. He sent us a really nice voice message after the race where, you know, as a driven, motivated athlete, his first response was, oh, that was good, but I left all these— I made these mistakes and left this time on the table. And you almost had to slap him through the phone and say, Matt, you know, your goal with us was to win a race, let alone win 4, let alone be the fastest age grouper at 2 big 70.3 races, to be mixing it with the pros with your bike and run times. And he sent us a really nice voice message, and this is a lesson that everyone can learn. He said, I just have to remind myself to be grateful for, you know, for these races. And of course, you, as a motivated athlete, you want to improve and you want to learn from the mistakes. And he says, I was a bit embarrassed to admit that I stuffed up both T1 and T2, and I couldn't find my bike, and then I ran out T2 without my nutrition, so I had to run back and get it. But they're all things that make us human. And of course, every race you go into, find areas to improve. That's the fun part of being an athlete. But for him to have the humility to voice message us and say, you know what, I have to just check myself. And I tell my athletes to be grateful, and I have to remind myself to be grateful. That's a really, really important point to just 'You know, take these opportunities when they come and be grateful for when they do happen because not every race is going to go well.' And I just thought that was a really cool lesson from our own Traveller coach.

Yeah, and form— you think once you've got this really great form, you think you're going to have it forever, and you don't. And you need to be reminding yourself that that's why we want you to be grateful, because this could only be a 6-month thing that you've had. You know, you may never get this form ever again. And it could be a 6-year thing that you're just unbeatable for 6 years. It could be a 20-year thing. We just don't know how long form is going to be at our fingertips. And when you're in that form, everything you do touches, everything you touch turns to gold. It's just, you feel like you're invincible. And if you've ever experienced that where you think, oh geez, this is the best I've ever been. And, you know, I'm not talking about winning all the time. I'm talking about this is the best I'm performing in my whole career. And you're really happy with yourself, but you need to keep reminding yourself that it can change very quickly. It can be a bike crash where you break your collarbone or you have concussion or you get sick for 6 months and you have to fight your way back. And so all these things, I'm constantly being reminded of myself. They're, you know, so grateful for the opportunities you have along the way. And don't forget to celebrate those. We say that a lot. And Matt, Matt, our first phone call was, you know, we always talk on the podcast about that, that hell yeah moment on the phone where, whoa, how good was that? And it's so exciting as a coach to talk to your athlete who's just, who's just done a PB. And in Matt's case, it was win, be the fastest non-professional on the day, even though he's in the 35 to 39 age group as a 37, 38-year-old, he's faster than any other age grouper outside of the pros. And he did that all on his own. And had he been in the pro field, he was 19th pro out of the 30-odd pros. Um, and so, you know, that's, that's a really good thing to celebrate. And, and Matt's saying, yeah, yeah, but this is what I did wrong. This is where I need to improve. This is and I just said, oh, whoa, slow down, Matt. I think, I think you're getting ahead of yourself here. Let's talk about that in a couple of days' time. Let's just sit back and, you know, act like we're sitting in deck chairs and we've got a cigar and a drink, and we're just, and we're just saying, oh, how good was that? Um, yeah. And he just started laughing. He goes, oh, that is so true. I'm, yeah, I'm so sorry. Um, yeah, but I love that enthusiasm I never want him to lose that about, oh, I can get better than that.

That's the exciting part.

Yeah, it is. But, you know, just be grateful that you're in this great form at the moment. And, you know, I can give an example of Roland, who we coach, for those who have been listening to the podcast, who did his first Ironman as a pro in Cairns this year and had probably the worst experiences of his triathlon career. And here he He came out this week at Sunny Coast 70.3, fastest bike rider in the pro field, and PB for his time, for his swim, bike, and run, and I think finished 12th and had the race of his life. My redemption race. Yeah, my how things can change. And Tom, on the other hand, Tom Page, who you've heard us have the interview with Tom and Roland, and Tom had the worst preparation sick, uh, you know, had other things going on in his world with work and his new job as a doctor, the things we've talked about and how impactful they'll be, and had probably the worst race of his life. And so, you know, Tom's had 2 or 3 seasons where he was unbeatable, and now he's changed his, his actual, um, vocation. He's gone from a student to an actual full-time worker, got sick, you know, obviously work and lack of sleep and training, they're all the impactful things that he's experiencing now. Travel. So, so these are things that, you know, you're, you're brought back to earth very quickly, aren't you? And you get a— he's now got a realistic idea of, oh gee, it's not all smooth sailing, smooth sailing all the time. And, and I love Tom's attitude, is not bitter or twisted. Ah, you know, how can I, how can I fix this? What things can I do? And they're the things you love about, uh, people are really in touch with the reality of how quickly things can be taken away.

We'll get Tom and Roland on the podcast very shortly to discuss the difference in preps, and it's kind of going in swings and roundabouts for both of them. You know, Tom's flying and Roland's struggling with some things and flips right around. But yeah, we'll definitely chat to them about that because it was, yeah, just more great lessons and great learnings. Everyone's loving that raw feedback that they're providing. So look, I just get really agitated when people say flippant things like, ah, the cycling is boring, Tadej's going to win for 5 years. You're just going, no way, for him to do that, it would be an absolute miracle. You know, he At this rate, he's racing so much and so hard, he could be burnt out by next year. And sometimes he looks done with cycling already because he's a little bit bored and you don't have that edge. You know, people said it about Egan Bernal. Oh, he's 19, he's won the Giro, he's going to win— oh, he won the Tour de France, he's going to win the next 7. You know, but people say that all the time. Jakob Ingebrigtsen, he's going to be unbeatable for 10 years. Do you know what it takes for that to happen? All these athletes I've just mentioned, their careers are falling apart a little bit right now. You know, Jakob's been injured since last year. He hasn't won a 1500-meter world championship. Even though he's the best middle-distance runner of the last 5 years. Iga Manal has never made it back to the very top of the podium in a Grand Tour. This just happens relentlessly, and so we want to celebrate athletes for how they are now and not just assume that because someone's good now, it's going to keep going forever.

Look, Jakob, 2 days ago, lined up for the semi— the heat of the 1500. You know, he is the Olympic champion and world champion in many events. And here he is not making the final, got run out.

Not making the semis.

Not making the semis. And the look of what just happened on his face afterwards. And so that's exactly what we're talking about, you know, it's— you don't know what's going to happen next. And so you've got to really enjoy the moments that you've got. And I think that's really important that you really think like that. And it— don't keep moving on to the next thing until you actually, you know, feel, almost smell the roses a bit. Just, just, just take your time and be grateful and thankful that things are going well. Because the measure of a woman or a man is when things aren't going well, how do they cope with that? And, and I think, uh, I watched Jacob's, uh, post-race interview, he was brilliant. He, he didn't have an answer. He was trying to think of things that— the reasons why he didn't perform. And this is someone with a microphone in his face, literally 10 minutes after he just not qualified for the World Champs. And he just said, oh, I just wasn't good enough. Obviously I thought I was better than I was. My preparation seemed okay, but turns out it wasn't. Um, and hopefully I'll be better in the 5000. And I'm really intrigued to see how he goes in the 5000 now because he just looked out of touch. So yeah, I think we've made that point there.

But yeah, I mean, I could keep going. You know, you look at Sam Laidlow, Ironman champion last year, peak of his career, spends 6 months unable to train. You know, his body just went into shock. Sorry, not last year, the year before. Lucy Charles, same thing, Ironman world champion 2023, then had a disastrous 6 months with injury. Like, it's just stories all the time.

Lionel Sanders, same thing.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. One athlete I wanted to mention who, who is just the gutsiest, strongest, um, now becoming fastly the most successful Australian middle distance runner of all time, Jess Hull. We watched her in the Diamond League final 3 weeks ago, um, run a very brilliant race by her standards, and it just came unstuck in the last 50 meters. She was on for a time and pace of 3:53.54, which she's very capable of with a 3:51 3:52 flat PB, I think. She was in that form, she'd run those times the week prior, but her body just capitulated in the last 50 meters. And within the Diamond League final with $50,000 on the line, she hit the most lactic brick wall you could ever see. If you get a chance to look at that footage, it's hard to watch. She can't lift her knees above the ground, that's how much lactic she's getting. And she almost stumbles over the line and she gets beaten by a centimeter to lose the $50,000 Diamond League final, which is just devastating when she didn't— I don't think she did anything wrong. I think she ran exactly as she should and to her form. And she had to front up to those mental demons and 3 weeks later come to the World Championships and she just ran a perfect heat in semi-final and into the final where Faith Kipyegon, again an athlete that looks and proves to be unbeatable, but I enjoy watching every single time she races. She won by 40 meters, which is just absurd. She's the most decorated middle distance runner of all time and I will never get sick of watching Faith Kipyegon because she's that good and I will never get sick of her winning by the margin she does. But The point I want to make is Jess Hull ran the race of her life, the same thing, hit that lactic with 50 meters to go, had two Kenyans in third and fourth chasing her down, the exact same scenario, and she— there was no way she wasn't getting a medal here. She got passed by one, the other was coming, she almost dived across the line again, and she, she got the bronze medal this time by 10 centimeters the other way. And she said in the interview after that she really didn't think it was going to happen again, but she had that in the back of her mind going, geez, I didn't expect that at Zurich, but it still happened. And she fought those mental demons and, and got a bronze medal, which is, um, it's never been done for an Australian in the 1500, which is incredible.

Everything you've said, I just love. Look, as a coach, I would say, oh, I don't know, Jess, I don't think you should be chasing Kipchoge, um, as much as you are, and self-preservation a little bit more, and you would have secured second spot. Um, her gutsy, determined, uh, goal of following Kipchoge down the back straight— this, this, this athlete is just league above everybody else. And interestingly, in the interview, Gerard Donnelly, if you saw this She said, I don't know if you realize how hard it is to do this, uh, time and time again. I find this very difficult. And I thought that was a great insight. People just think she's going to win every time. And she's almost saying, people just expect that I turn up and I win. I don't think they realize how much it takes to do this.

It takes everything she has every time.

Yeah. And I'm sorry that I didn't break the world record, but that's very difficult to do as well. Considering it's my world record.

Yeah, that's great insight. It's so true. You think of any 20-minute FTP test you do and how hard that effort is to squeeze every watt out of yourself. And these athletes, she's turning up and running 3:50, 3:51s, which again are just unheard of times in female.

The pressure that you must feel because everybody in the race knows that you're the best and you, you know, and that you're, you're not going to win every time. I'm sorry to tell everybody out there, she's going to lose at some stage. Yeah, but she's doing everything she can to, to push that day further away.

Yeah, we've, we've seen some great lessons in, in running right to the line in all events. The marathon, two sprint finishes in the marathon, a sprint finish in the steeplechase where the Kiwi George Beamish beat the unbeatable— again, the unbeatable Moroccan in El Bakkali, who hasn't lost a race in 9 championships in a row or something. And and he probably thought he had the race won, and Beamish just kicked him in the last 30 meters. But Carly didn't really see him coming, which is disappointing because he had more in him. Once he saw him, he surged, but it was too late and lost. So you've got to run right to the line.

I wanted to say something about the depth of talent in all sports. Like, I've never seen the Ironman World Championships with 5 people getting off the bike or running out of transition together. I've never seen that in all of the years I've been doing triathlon since 1981. And, and here we are at the marathon. I've never seen a sprint finish where it's a dead heat, and, and they had to go, they had to go to a photo to see who won. That was incredible. And, and just to see, um, the, the amount of depth in, uh, so to see, uh, Beeman win that, and he's obviously won a— he's, he's no mug. He's won a Beamish, he's won a, he's won a World Indoor title, so But you know, uh, that guy, uh, what was the Moroccan's name? I've forgotten again.

El Bakaly.

El Bakaly. I've watched him so many times in the last 2 years, and he just accelerates away from the field at will. And he did the same thing in the last 100, last 150 over that last steeplechase in the water jump. And he was looking at the, the video screen, and he almost turned off. And then he realized that Bemish was coming and he accelerated too late. And it was— he had that one. Bemish wouldn't have, wouldn't have won had, uh, he kept his pace going. And, and I just think that's a, a shocking mistake at that level. Um, and I saw a 400, a couple of 400 heats where the favorites got run out because they actually eased up on the line and a couple of people passed them. Same in the 100. Um, you, you need to finish it's a 400 or it's 100, you need to do the full 100 or the full 1500, not 1499 meters. That's not good enough. And at that level, you should be running through the line. And, and we've seen a couple of cycling events where guys have put— girls have put their hands up to win and get rolled on the line, you know. Yeah, forget this, this, you know, I call it the social media photo. You know, you're there to do a job, which is to finish the event.

I did notice that in even the 1500s as well, where, you know, Josh Kerr himself— they, they love to show that they do it easy. They're running 3:35, that is no joke, you know, but they love to show that, oh, that's it, I'm a 3:27 runner, you know. They'd love to show that they're not out of breath at the end. And, um, it's a little bit of a dig, but I'm just saying that, um, you know, he eased up and there was such a bunch behind him, they toppled him over at the end because he was he was kind of trying to cruise to the finish and show that he was doing comfortably, and they just ran right through the back of him. And something like that can go disastrously wrong if it was 10 meters before, and he doesn't qualify. So, um, one person that did run through is Sydney McLaughlin. She ran, ran through the line in there. Oh, actually, she did ease up as well, to be honest, but she ran an American record by easing up. She's that far ahead of the field. So in the semifinal, so look, if you want to watch some races, I'll go—

oh, she could break the first woman in 30 years to break 48 seconds for the 400. And we all know the record is so old because there was a generation where the majority of, uh, athletes during that period were cheating. And, and so those times have— we've never got close to them for 30, 40 years. So, yeah, so this would be, this would be sensational to see someone, uh, actually break that 48 seconds, uh, for the first time in a long, long time.

It'd be absolutely historic. So if you want some key races to watch, the World Champs have 4 or so days left, and I think Sydney McLaughlin, if you want to watch any race, could be one of the most historic runs of all time if she does break that, that world record, and she's the athlete that can do it. The whole final will be great. The men's 1500m final is on tonight. I think the 800m event is the pet event that is the most stacked field ever. You know, no one has come close to David Radice's 1:40.91, which is just the most absurd 800 time you could possibly think of. Yet there's 10 or 12 athletes in this field that can run, you know, below 1:42. It's the most elite deep field we've seen. Wanyonyi looks to be the one to take it out or even break Ruedi's record. So I think that is the event of the whole World Championships for me.

Yeah, and the new up-and-coming Laros, he's— I love the way he races. He just runs a really good paced race and he's in some great form. Interesting seeing Kyle Hooker disqualified in the in the 1500 heat.

Um, Olympic champion to school.

I know, pushing his way through, um, a gap that wasn't there. And I think they did the right thing. Um, uh, but yeah, you can't just push, push, you can't push your way around a track. Um, so, and that's that, you know, you want to win the right way. And I'm not criticizing him, just there wasn't a gap there and it affected two other runners. And people would say, well, but that, those other runners were probably going to qualify anyway. But that's not the point, you know, the rules are there so you don't bump or touch or push, um, and give everybody a fair chance at running their best. So yeah, so there's going to be lots of, lots of to watch over the next few days. I can't wait to see what happens.

Once again, I know we keep harping on about this point, but I just— the 1500 is a great example of, you know, anything can happen on the day, and everyone just assumes that Kipchoge is going to turn up and win. But look at this 1500-meter world champs final 12 months ago at the Olympics. The top 4 were Hocker, Kerr, Nagus, Ingebrigtsen, and they were leagues above everyone else, even though everyone in that race ran unbelievable. It was the fastest 1500-meter final ever. And look at this final— Nagus, Hocker, Ingebrigtsen out. Kerr's the only one of those super four that are in it. Anyone can win this race. And in that final tomorrow, Kerr could trip up at the 200-meter mark. It's literally anyone's race. You know, Laros looks really good himself, but you know, I think back to 2016 Rio 1500, you know, Matt Centrowitz probably was not the best runner there, had an unbelievable racing kick and won that. And there was guys with PBs much faster than him, Chariot and everything. So I think it's just a reminder, anything can happen on the day. If you're aiming for a podium, you know, don't just assume someone's going to win, especially in triathlon when it's such an endurance event. And even if you feel like your race is kind of done at some point in the day, we see from the pros all the time that you can turn it around. And that's what Casper did in the Ironman World Champs. I think that's just so worth mentioning. So I have absolutely loved diving into all this sport.

I'll give one more example just before we finish. Like, our own Stevie Mack, you know, had a— had a, in his mind, not the best ride, but he ends up with a real big smile on his face because he's broken 3 hours for the marathon, you know, in a triathlon Ironman as an age grouper. You know, to run— to run 2:59, that—

that's—

that's a big ticket, I think. And— and that makes your day and your whole trip so much better. Or instead of dropping your bundle and going, oh, what's the point, I'm not gonna I'm too far back to win. That's just the wrong attitude. No, I see what I can get out of this. And I think he got off in 13th place, ended up in 6th. So he ran, ran past, you know, really good age groupers. So, so you need to have that mindset of, you know, don't throw the towel in just because it's not going your way. You never know what can happen. And, uh, and that you'll be so much happier yourself that you didn't. I've made that mistake many times. You've just got to not be upset with your lack of effort. As long as you're giving your best effort, you can be sad— walk away being satisfied.

A quick shout out, we had 24 TriVelo athletes competing around the world on the weekend, which is really exciting for us. A bunch in the Sunshine Coast 70.3 in Australia, across the North America of Canada and US, in Berlin in Europe, and of course at the World Champs in Nice, which is super exciting. And we had athletes ranging from Roland, who, as we said, fastest of the day, 3 hours 46 of the Triathlon athletes. We'll talk about his full race on the breakdown with him. We had athletes in the full range from there to 6 hours 25 minutes, which is just fantastic for us because a lot of people think we just coach the top end, which is absolutely not the case. But more importantly, every athlete within that range of 3 hours 45 to 6 hours 30 had a variety of experiences, some with PBs, some absolutely stoked with their race plan. I know the athlete who ran 6 hours 25 could not be— could not have been happier to break 2 hours for the half marathon. Which is a big shout out, and athletes just happy with their execution or things that they want to keep working on and improve on. So that's a really important message for us.

Yeah, and, you know, at any particular weekend, in any given year, you know, you've got an opportunity to prove yourself, and that's what it's about. And I can't wait to, you know, there's just another set of races next weekend, and I think that's one of the important points. So we had a couple of athletes who were actually injured and, and couldn't do the full triathlon. And we come up with another strategy. Well, okay. Let's just swim and bike and get something out of it. And we had 2 athletes, one in the Berlin race and one in the Sunshine Coast. And their attitude was fantastic. You know, I can't actually run because I've got a slight injury and what can I make the most of out of this event? And, and I think, you know, that's what this is all about is just doing your best with the position you find yourself in. And, and instead of being, so disappointed and, and a little bit depressed because they couldn't do what they had planned to do. And some of them been training for this for 3 or 4 months. Some have been training for this for 3 or 4 years. And, you know, you've gotta make the most out of the situation you find and, and pivot and, and try to find another outcome that's gonna give you some satisfaction. And both these athletes really had great swims and rides and, and gave them some more confidence. So when they get to the next time they do a triathlon, they actually got some real value and benefit out knowing that they've got a new level. So So that's super exciting for me.

To finish off, we're just going to go into my marathon recap prep, the A race, which a few people have been asking about. And we had some notes from the last session, the last podcast, about just diving into the training and people following along with the goal. So sharing, 3 weeks to go now. Every week is just ticking down. I actually got butterflies in my stomach before when you were talking about Casper's marathon and you said There's something that you said that made me— oh, you said, you know, you can be deep into the marathon. That's at the end of an Ironman as well, let alone just a fresh marathon. And you know, you've got 25 kilometers to go and it's going to hurt. That put a knot in my stomach going, oh, I just know that feeling. And so yeah, we're getting closer and you start really thinking about the race and try not to fret on it too much and trust the work that you've done. But I had a good last week of training. And a couple of key sessions for the week, some, some really at threshold efforts, you know, 2K intervals, 6x2K, which I ran quite quick, which I appreciate that you told me that, Kat's probably in, you know, the speed work's done. We've proven that the speed is there. You know, you're running, running those at really good pace. Now we just want to make sure that you've got that endurance and you can hold that marathon pace right to the end. So we did another 32K long run where it was 60 minutes at Zone 2, 60 minutes at marathon pace, just to, just to, um, and then 20 minutes just nice easy cool down just to really get that strength in the back end to make sure that pace feels comfortable. And it was a good test and it went well, so we're feeling pretty good.

Yeah, you get a lot of confidence from your training sessions, and that's what I really encourage athletes to keep, keep on track of what their data is telling them. And, and, you know, when you get to the actual race day, you have some confidence that, you know, I've I've trained some big days where I'm trying to run that, you know, 3:45 to 3:50 pace. I've done it in training. I've done it at the back end of a long run. And so that's what you need to know about what your plan and strategy is going to be. If you're trying to do things you haven't done in training, I would have— my stomach would be in knots. I would be, you know, the anxiety would be through the roof if my expectation is I've got this goal time, but I've never done that in training. You know, it's still not too late, the last 3 weeks to actually really hone in on getting some good running in where you're actually practicing as many times as you can what your actual marathon pace is gonna be. And then people, you know, rather than, rather than trying to cram in more training, just cram in more training at the right pace. Sorry, don't cram. Put more training in at the right pace where we're not trying to, to add any more extra, extra special efforts. We're just trying to get your body used to, okay, 3:45 pace, that's what we're going to do. 3:47 pace, that's what we're going to do. And I think that's the thing that you go into your next event confident that you've done a lot of that work.

Yeah, testing conditions last week as well. I will say that I was thinking on my long run, I've had a lot of things, you know, put roadblocks in front of me to go almost to say, do you really want this? You know, do you really— are you really willing to do these sessions in hard conditions. I was, um, I was in Perth for the weekend, and Perth has just had horrific storms. It feels like a lot of weekends this year when I've been there to train, but just got to Sunday. I was looking at the conditions early, but I'd done a hard session on Friday and I couldn't, I couldn't do it on a Saturday because I couldn't back up. Um, and this run was supposed to be Sunday, and I was just looking, it looks pretty stormy. Hopefully it's a little bit better by Sunday afternoon. And the whole Sunday was just hurricane winds and, and torrential rain, and 3 separate times. It cleared for 5 minutes and I just chucked my stuff on, went out the door to go, and I literally walked out the door and got hit with 60-kilometer wind and piss-down rain again. And I just said, I'm not starting this run in this. Like, I thought, I've done this before and I know I can run in it, but I just prefer not to, and delayed it a day. And the next day was no rain but just wind, and I just said, stuff it, I have to run in this wind. And it's not ideal, and it's block headwind one way trying to run 3:45 pace and huge tailwind where 3:40 pace feels like jogging. It's a ridiculous way to do a training session, but it gives you great strength and you just take what comes.

And it's been interesting, your journey, because you live in a climate in Bali where the temperature is reasonably stable, even though it's extremely hot and humid, but it's kind of constant. In the last sort of month, you've been in Bali, in the snow in New Zealand where it's freezing, and you've been in the wind in Perth. So you haven't had a lot of stability in in where you are, and that impacts your training a lot. And you found that over the last period. And that's, you know, in hindsight, you would always look back and go, well, maybe I shouldn't— if I want to do well in this event, I need to have a stable, stable build-up and try not to put roadblocks in due to the weather or, you know, the wrong environment. And that's not easy to do. You got to live your life and enjoy your life. And but it's always a little bit of a testy thing to say, far out, I can't do the session on the day I want because it's actually not safe to do that, whether it's temperature or wind or rain or, or conditions or you're too tired. So, you know, it takes a lot to get to the start line in the best shape you can. And, and, you know, a lot of those things take planning, don't they? And, and, you know, it just so happens that you've, you've just had sort of 3 trips that have been very interrupting. They, they shouldn't be but they've just had a bit of extreme weather conditions so that it was. So, but that's just the way it is, and you know, you've got to, you've got to ride with that and make the most of it and make good decisions about where you're moving sessions. Where it's easy normally when you just got us, you're at home for 6 months and it's got the same, um, same schedule every day. So, uh, so yeah, it's going to be interesting to see, you know, when you get this last 3-week period. I know you're coming early back to Melbourne for this race which I think is a great decision, and that'll be giving you some peace of mind, some continuity of good sleep, good training, the right temperature that you're going to race in. And yeah, I think, I think that's a really good plan strategy for you for what you're doing next.

I do want to mention we had a pretty hilarious conversation because I did go skiing in New Zealand for 6 days with a mate, and one of the holidays I've been really looking forward to for the year. You know, it's one of those ones that you really want to do, and it was 7 weeks out at the time from the marathon. So I thought it's enough time that it wouldn't be a big interruption. You said to me the night before, "Why are you doing that? I wouldn't be doing that. You've got 7 weeks to the marathon. I wouldn't be doing this trip if I was you." I'm going, "Dad, I'm not a professional. I'm going to go on this ski trip." Turns out, for bad coincidence, you were dead right because the conditions were horrible. I ended up getting sick from the cold and had to do a 32K run in snowy conditions. And I will say that, you know, a few of my key marathon runs here, these long ones, have been in horrible conditions. So either Melbourne's great weather and I'm going to feel really good, or if it's horrible conditions, at least I've trained in it and I can run that pace in it.

So yeah, well, that's always a benefit of experiencing everything. So when it comes to the race day, nothing else can be thrown at you. It's like the Truman movie, isn't it, when he's out on the boat? And even though it's a stage situation, but, uh, you know, the, the ramping up the wind and he's standing there saying, is that all you got?

You know, yeah, he's going, come on, he's yelling at them. That's great.

I think, I think that's, you know, on race day, you know, no matter what happens to you, you're going to go, this is nothing compared to what I was doing in Queenstown or in those winds in, in Perth or the heat in Bali. So I think it'll hold you in good stead, actually.

Yeah, yeah, no, that's good. Well, that's, that's the update monster episode. Uh, sorry for dragging on too long, but we hope you enjoyed our, our coaching ramblings on the reaction to the World Champs, and there's just so much sport right now that we're loving. So if you enjoyed this episode, let us know if you like these breakdowns, if you like us talking about the World Champs or the athletics or the cycling, please drop a comment and let us know. We'd love to hear kind of what you like more of. We had some comments asking about our own racing. That's why we've spoken about the marathon recently, and we love that feedback. We want to give you more of what you want. And if you want to get coached by us in the same way that we're speaking about the coaching and these athletes and our opinions, and the way that all our athletes have done, including our top-end athletes like Matt Phillips winning the overall age group and getting that good, you can go to travellerocoaching.com.au and apply to get coached from us there. And as we spoke about, we coach athletes right from the top of the pro and age group field like Roland and Matt, right to athletes, you know, doing 6 hours 30 or more for the 70.3 if that's what you want. So go to travellerocoaching.com.au and apply to get coached there. That's it for us for this episode. Thank you all as always for listening, and we'll see you on the next one.