Living, Training and Racing with the World Champs

Welcome back to another Pro Series episode where we're tracking the very new careers of Tom Page and Roland Crantock, two recently turned pro triathletes. And I will stop calling you rookies because it's been a couple of years now. Two doctors, two former rowers turned triathletes, and, and two best mates, both turned pro within the same year with Tribello Coaching, coached by the super coach here, head of coaching at Tribello himself, former Australian Ironman champion, and the man with the current now through his hand, so he's got his arm in a sling for the podcast, Gerard Donnelly. We're excited for this episode because we've been tracking the journey of these boys for a few years, and everyone loves the insight into how you progress from top-end age group athletes into pros and competing against the pro field and that whole journey while still working full-time as doctors. And it's a really good time for an update because we just had Geelong 70.3 Half Ironman over the weekend, Tom's home race. Roland always flies down for it. And, and there's a fair bit of excitement in the air because, uh, the, the big dogs were in town. It was a huge battle of titans between Christian Blumenfeldt, Hayden Wilde, and Jelle Geens. Uh, and Tom actually had the world champ himself staying at his house, and he got to live and train with him for a week leading into the race, which was super exciting. And we'll dive into that. But boys, welcome back to the episode.

Thank you very kindly, Jordy. Pleased to, uh, pleased to be checking in.

So we'll get to, uh, the Geelong stuff, but I want to just briefly touch on kind of both your summers. And, and Roland, you do always fly down for this race, but, but for a second there you, you felt like maybe not doing it. So talk us through that process of potentially not coming down.

Yeah, well, as you say, um, the Aussie summer, like, is generally everybody else's off-season, but, um, for us it means we sort of just have to continue plowing on. And, um, sometimes you mix your, your travel and your holidays with your training. And so I went to Japan for a bit and As everyone does, sort of experience, you get sick on the way back on the plane. And just since that, just wasn't quite feeling myself for the last few months. And, you know, had a few races in preparation leading into this weekend with Geelong that I just wasn't really firing on all cylinders for. So I was, you know, having a chat with the super coach leading into it, and it was— I remember Gerry was saying, you know, probably recommend you don't actually go down. If you can get a refund on your flights, you should probably do that. Pull out now, essentially. Um, you know, I think I got some exciting news from Tommy, and it's, you know, I, I think it was probably too much of an opportunity just to pass up, just to be part of that atmosphere. So yeah, decided to go down and just be part of it, part of the excitement, without any real expectations, I guess, on my race performance. So yeah.

Yeah, brilliant. Dad, what were your thoughts? What was kind of— what was the reason behind your advice there about potentially pulling out? You're, you're really a stickler for just taking every race opportunity you can and putting yourself out there.

It's very odd that I would be telling an athlete not to race, but I really care about Rotland's health and well-being, and it is quite depressing to race when you're not at your best. And interestingly enough, when we had Christian on the podcast last week, uh, his attitude was kind of exactly what I'd hoped it would be, which was, you know, in order to, in order to get the experience, you have to race whether you're at peak form, mediocre form, or in terrible form. And it's hard to race when you feel that you're in terrible form. So, so my advice was, look, why put yourself through an experience that you're not going to enjoy? Um, you're better off just, uh, you know, getting some more training in and live to fight another day. Um, But Roland's attitude was one that I was all on board with. His, his attitude was, look, a great experience to, to, you know, to be with Christian and Jella and Hayden and, and Tom's, you know, hosting them and we can train together. And it was— there was too many positives. And his attitude to the race, actual event, was exactly— so he wasn't going to have a depressed state of mind if he performed terribly. So, so once we had that conversation, it was a no-brainer for him to come down and and have a crack, and I was super encouraging him. But I, at first, I'm really worried about his, you know, mental state about competing when you're not really going well, because it's quite depressing. And, um, if you've, you know, you're always questioning everything, and we know the reasons, um, what happens. And Tom went through the same thing last year. It's almost like you two guys don't get the same form at the same time. One of you is, you know, going really well, and the other one's kind of struggling with some some health issues and vice versa. So it was a really easy decision in the end.

So Roland, what happened over the last kind of 2 to 3 months? Because I think December '21 or '23 you were in pretty good form when there was the famous World Champs Noosa ride. So for those that don't know, there's a— it's called a quote-unquote World Champ Circuit, which is an epic bunch ride up in Noosa where Roland lives. And the group goes real hard for a— what is it, a 30-minute circuit or 28 minutes or—

Yeah, around that. I think it's— yeah, well, the KOM now is I think around 31.

Yeah, exactly. And Hayden got— yeah, exactly. Well, the Christmas one is notoriously quick where it's just hell for leather, and Hayden Wild turned up on this one and it was a pretty quick one. And Rowan, I'll let you explain, but you guys ended up getting the fastest time, and because Wild doesn't really put his stuff on Strava, you have the KOM for it, which is just pretty fun.

Yeah, I've got the Solitary, um, yeah, KOM, which I think a little bit of controversy about it, to be honest. So I'm not sure how many people are going to get too upset by it, but, um, look, that was another surreal experience, you know. Um, I think because Hayden was doing a bit of, you know, training in Noosa leading into like the latter half of his year— a year, sorry— um, for the end of the season last year. Um, and so I think just one Tuesday morning, you know, got this message, this group chat message saying, oh, like Hayden's in town and he wants to go and have a crack at the, the World Champs. But, you know, coming off the back of, you know, his crash in Tokyo, that's obviously set him back. He, I think he was a bit mindful of not going out in a big group bunch ride. Um, and so I guess the idea was formulated that we'd still go and have a good crack at the KOM, but we'd do it 15 minutes after the bunch ride, which obviously is not winning any favors with the Noosa locals, unfortunately. But mind you, it was 4 or 5 guys on TT bikes versus about a group of 40 or so people on road bikes. So I would call that a fairly even matchup. But to this day, it was still possibly, I think, one of the hardest sessions I think I've ever done on a bike. Because you say it's quite an undulating ride out there that you do, and you sort of head out on a flat road for the first, you know, 5 or 10 minutes, and then it sort of loops around the back of, you know, the Noosa hinterland, and you, you get some undulating hills. And, uh, I think, uh, at that point, the, the group of 5 of us had whittled down to just, you know, 3 of us. And then I was just trying to hold on to Hayden's wheels best I could, and fortunately I could. He dropped me on the hills, and then because I'm a bit heavier, I could catch him on the downhills. And then Yeah, it was— I think I was foaming at the mouth by the end of it. Um, and he definitely— he had a better time than me. I reckon he would have been, you know, probably 5 seconds or so faster than me on the segment. So I'm grateful that he hasn't uploaded, um, because at the moment it makes me look like I've just gone out and done it by myself because it's my time and then the, the rest of the group. Um, coincidentally, to make things worse, uh, the bunch ride who had gone 15 minutes before us, who had been, you know, I think the, the previous top time for this, um, segment had been sent by, you know, Jan Frodeno and I think Luke McKenzie and a few other ex-professional, you know, big hitters, and had been there since about 2015. And so ever since this time, you know, people have been going out in droves to try and sort of, you know, best it. And it just so happens that on that morning, the Bunch Ride also beat the time and had the KOM for about 15 minutes until obviously we got home and then uploaded. And I, I did, I did get a few— there was a few angry messages in some group chats I heard, and my ride got flagged. And then, yeah, I think everyone's, you know, come to terms with it now. But yeah, it's all just a bit of fun and games.

But just, just for some context, uh, for the listeners, this ride has been going since I started in 1990. So it's over 35 years. And obviously there was no Strava comms till 2012, I think, uh, Roland, that might be the first. And so I've got, I've got all these data bits of times that I've done, and everybody wants to do the Noosa World Champs ride on Tuesday morning. And it does go on the Noosa Triathlon course for the first section. So you actually are doing the first those who have done the Noosa Triathlon, uh, it is quite a, a bit of a climb. Um, and really the effort doesn't really start till after that though. So it's, uh, it is a really iconic ride, and there's plenty of iconic rides around the world, I know, but this one has been going since the early 1990s. So for, for a Trivello man on a TT bike to have it, it is gold for me.

I love how much you love it. I love the controversy. It really doesn't help the cyclist versus triathlon argument that just is never-ending. And so to be on the TT bikes is quite hilarious, actually. So look, you were in flying form. Would you put down the fault just down to a bit of travel and sickness, that little hiccup just set you back? I think, did you guys end up traveling together? You kind of went on a bit of a Japan trip together?

Oh, just coincidentally, we ended up being over there at the same sort of time. We just crossed paths. Yeah, I know. Honestly.

Traveling across Tokyo.

Geordie, you were there too. What are you talking about?

I know I was a week after. Did you, uh, did you pretend not to tell your partners and then, oh, Tom Roland, what are you doing?

Yeah, yeah, what are the chances? No, yeah, it was quite fortuitous. Um, no, it was great to see, you know, Tommy over there. Um, but yeah, I think you just— I always find that I think, you know, continuing the load through summer, especially when it gets quite hot and humid up here in Queensland, and then maybe just a bit of the tail end of the sickness coming back, you know, maybe that's just what overloaded the system and then put me into a bit of, you know, that almost overtrained state. Um, and yeah, just was struggling to push power, um, on the bike, you know. I went and did a race out, uh, Gundagundi in at the Hell of the West race, which was fantastic, but I just, you know, was a shadow of my former self really. So, you know, was a bit disappointed in my performance at that race. But, you know, Gerard, with his wisdom, had the foresight to say, well, look, you know, you've got a few options here. The recommendation would probably be, as he said, to, you know, you know, prioritize your own health and make sure you're not going to go into, you know, make things worse. But also, you know, we could see how you perform with, you know, a period of, you know, just recovery and rest, see what your body can do. And then just show up at Geelong and, you know, sort of roll the dice, which is, you know, the option that we sort of ended up going for.

Yeah, and you came out with an absolute belter of a bike time, so we'll touch on that and how that unfolded and the whole race. But passing to you, Tom, did you end up getting sick post-Japan as well, or you were okay, you went unscathed?

Yeah, fortunately not this time, which I was very pleased about. No, I was actually feeling pretty good getting back into the swing of things. Obviously Uh, always a bit difficult sometimes traveling, trying to keep a little bit of load in. Um, but I think perhaps differently to previous times, I probably just tried to enjoy the time away a little bit more and just fit the training in around that. I'm still able to keep my running consistency up, which is something I was mainly keen to do to keep the load in the legs. Um, but tried to not overdo, you know, burning the candle on both ends, which I've probably done a bit too much in the past, and with the travel and, uh, changing time zones and things, even though it's not a lot. Um, it's definitely, yeah, hit the system a little bit before, um, and coming back into work and things, just giving the, the body and system a little bit of time and seem to be able to keep the ground running and get back into some summer training, which is really good. I was very fortunate to have a week of annual leave still when I got back, and I think that made a huge difference, just being able to get back, settle into a bit of training again in that week before, um, kicking off with, uh, work and training balance again. Um, you just gave the, yeah, body and system a little bit more reprieve, I think. Um, and also gave me, uh, a little bit more freedom, I guess, mentally, knowing I could come back and hit some good training that week before I went back into the busyness of, uh, trying to, trying to double up. So yeah, it was fortunate for staggered.

It's something that we always talk about, uh, when you travel, you know, uh, especially because triathlon is 3 sports. So a lot of athletes fall into the trap of thinking that if I can't train all 3 sports, I can't train. And that's not necessarily and depending on where you go, you might have one available, two available, or three available. And just because we train all three sports at once doesn't mean you always have to. And if you're in a position where you're in Japan, you're going to be skiing, you're going to be getting some good exercise in, there's just no way to swim or run, uh, ride, it's a great opportunity just to keep your run volume up and keep that consistency. And it's a mistake to, to think, uh, I can't do the other two sports, so I just won't do any of them, and I'll just forgo training these few weeks. You know, you can, yeah, there's absolutely nothing wrong with keeping running load up. In fact, you could probably afford to increase it a little bit because you're not riding or swimming, as long as, you know, depends on what kind of ski trip you're doing. If you're skiing every day, it's a bit harder. But I think, Dad, we really try and make that point a lot, is you can always do something that will benefit you. And triathletes never have enough time to do as much training as we want. So when you get a chance to maybe just focus on one discipline, it's a great opportunity to take it.

Yeah, definitely. And I think there's two things at play sometimes, as Roland experienced and Tom last year when he traveled to Europe. Got really sick. And so sickness really derails the consistency that you have in your program, and it's hard to come back from. Tom had a really bad experience back in last year where, you know, you were really struggling, weren't you, health-wise, Tom? And Roland had that same experience this time with the health. And if you don't accept that it has an impact, then you're burying your head in the sand. You need to accept it and try to adjust to progress a little bit less intensely coming back from it. So there's that, there's that aspect of, of the training. And then, then the aspect of you're restricted, as you were just saying, about what actual training you can do. Um, and, you know, Tom kept, kept his running volume not too bad actually. And, you know, some of the races that he in the past he's done where he's been in super form, um, he ran the PB at Geelong this weekend, um, where his form has been, you know, not where he wants it yet. He still ran, uh, as best as he's ever, ever run in your career. And, and I think that's sure is testament to exactly what you're talking about, Jordan, where you can still, still build if you just got a— just got the bike available and you can't swim and run. You can still really work on that. And, and these are opportunities when, when you're not in your own environment, in your natural environment, you can still push the training to, to get some value out of the time you're away.

Bit of a controversial question, but you know, the risk of being sick at airports, on planes, it just seems sky high with just constant, you know, different variations of influenza going around the world. Are you— being doctors, are you mask wearers now? Would you consider just wearing a mask the whole time in the airport and the plane, or you just think it's just unlucky? What's your, what's your opinion on that, especially as athletes?

Well, I've actually not adopted the mask. I'm not, not a mask wearer on the plane, uh, but I guess If I think if I was traveling, especially long haul, you know, and I was going specifically for a race, I probably would, you know, be considering, you know, uh, putting a mask on. But having said that, I didn't wear a mask when I went just down this weekend to Geelong.

So yeah, I think, uh, I think, uh, I feel like I did travel with an N95 and probably didn't wear it. But, um, I feel like if I was going to do anything, I'd wear a proper one, not just a placebo over the top sort of, uh, normal mask. Um, might have used it one leg, I've got a feeling, because I think myself or Sophie or someone was, um, a bit borderline. So we were trying to do what we could. But, uh, yeah, no, I like to have it there, even a bit of peace of mind in case I feel the need.

Yeah.

All right, so that kind of takes us to Geelong. And, and Tom, you got a probably a bit of a surprising call, uh, in the lead-up where just through, uh, the, the triathlon and Ironman athlete world, uh, you kind got put in touch with Christian where he needed a place to stay while he was here and someone to train with. And so you got the opportunity to live with the Olympic gold medalist and world champion and see how he prepares for a race and see his training habits leading in. And we got access to him on the podcast where he described your training sessions that you guys were doing in detail, which was unbelievable. But yeah, what was that experience like to have KB come and stay with you and see his actions, you know, 24/7 leading into the race?

Yeah, it was an absolutely surreal experience. We'd seen that he'd stayed with one of the New Zealand pros, Ben Hamilton, in Auckland in the lead up to Ironman New Zealand. And through the networks, Ironman sort of reached out and asked if we'd be open to doing a similar thing for him as one of the few triathletes in Geelong racing professionally. And yeah, we were a little bit starstruck at first with the offer, to be honest. We're unsure whether we'd have a satisfactory or up to standard setup for the King KB himself.

But, um, no altitude rooms, no heat chambers.

No, we've thought about getting the sauna and trying to, you know, freshen it up for him a little bit. But, um, I don't think I've ever cleaned the house so much. Sophie's thrilled with that. Um, but it was great to get him in. And, uh, yeah, a crazy experience to live alongside and train alongside and just learn from, you know, evidently probably the best triathlete slash athlete in general, uh, on planet Earth. Um, sort of, you know, it's really sinking in now he's gone how crazy it was to have, uh, someone of that caliber in, in our house eating, uh, every bagel Geelong had to offer. Um, and just learning, you know, the day-to-day things from him. Um, obviously you had a great chat to him on the podcast as well, which, uh, he was, again, very incredibly generous and very happy to do. Um, because he's just such an open, normal, genuine guy. Which is crazy to then see, uh, the outrageous sort of stuff he can do on the race course, like he would on the weekend. So, um, yeah, it was unbelievable.

What sort of stuff stands out for you, you know, watching his habits? What kind of things stood out for you immediately that, that, uh, either are just, are just, you know, similar to other pro athletes or that make him stand out, you think?

Yeah, I think the thing that probably struck me first, like within the first 24 to 48 hours, was just how like relaxed and simple he keeps things. Um, you know, he's just traveled from a different country that's on the other side of the world to his home and where he usually does a lot of his training and camps and things, even when he is traveling. And, uh, he's rocked up at some, you know, random couple, maybe 20s, his house, and he's just, you know, settling in. And we go for a swim and a ride, just sort of, I guess, break the ice pretty smoothly on that first afternoon. And, um, The way he doesn't stress much of the small stuff, I think he— it seems to me, I'm sure he's, you know, gets into the nitty-gritty, uh, himself, but he really focuses on the big picture. I think having, you know, food to eat can be very simple— bagels with a, you know, mashed banana on top, or a piece of ham and a bit of cheese, you know, that keeps it pretty basic. Um, and then just making sure that he can get the foundation to his training in, which is pretty much just having a bit of time throughout the day to do a session, have an hour rest, get a bit of fruit in between. And just rinse and repeat, which is incredibly boring for everyone listening, I'm sure. But it really stood out to me how unfancy and, uh, uh, I guess unglamorous the, the training and the life was. It was just a very simple, repeatable, um, routine. And, you know, I, uh, was fortunate that he was coming off the week of an Ironman, so I could, you know, just keep up behind him throughout the week for 25 hours or something for his recovery week. But, uh, I think the fact that he just focuses on the big things and doesn't stress about the small things amongst travel, different training locations, training with different people, uh, make sure that he gets the bulk of the work done, focuses on, you know, doing that 95% well rather than fretting over the 5%, um, that, you know, may or may not make a difference. And over, you know, weeks and months and years, that's clearly paid dividends to be, uh, absolute champion of the sport that he is.

Now at this point, I want to give you both your kudos, and also to any athlete listening. KB actually gave a big kudos, uh, because off air of the podcast, Dad actually asked him and said, oh, what's it like, you know, training, living with, with the famous Tom Page, the notorious, uh, very well-known local hero Tom Page? And, uh, yeah, he had a great answer. He said, geez, in no uncertain terms, he said it is very impressive to watch, you know, Tom get up do his required training within the exact minute window that he needs to, come home, change in 5 minutes, go straight to work, work on shift at the hospital, come home, 5-minute turnaround, back to training, you know, come home, eat what you need to, get the sleep you need. That's a huge compliment coming from the world champion. And, and it applies to both you. The schedules you're doing, you're competing at this level with, with working full-time as doctors, that is not to be understated. It's actually really incredible what you're both achieving. Very early in your career. But it's also a testament to all those groupers out there. It's such a reminder. We have said it hundreds of times on the podcast, you can't compete with the pros because, because they've got all day to train and then recover, you know. And so they get to train a lot more and get a lot more volume in. And the training is tough, but they get to recover. And so for any age group out there, it was just such a great thing he said that everyone is getting up early in the morning, getting their session, and then going to a full day of work, or coming home trying to get a session in with a family. So, so So Dad, that was pretty cool to hear, wasn't it?

It was absolutely brilliant. And he was almost in admiration, like the way you are talking about him. He was doing exactly the same back, Tom, about, you know, how he felt almost inadequate that the things you were achieving in the day, he felt almost a bit lazy-like that he had all the time in the world to do, uh, his thing. And, and here you were, and, and Roland's exactly in the same position, uh, And your job's really, you know, if you make a mistake, you're dealing with someone's life here. It's not like, you know, if I make a mistake with a training session, you know, I can fix it. You know, you're— I'm not trying to downgrade every other job that's going around in the world, but there are some jobs that you really need to be concentrating and be not so fatigued that you actually make poor decisions in terms of people's lives. So you've got that stress as well. I've said many times there aren't too many pro athletes who have— who are working full-time in a job like yours who are, you know, competing at such a level you guys are. So we don't get to say this very often, but we're super proud of you two. And, and it was so good to hear Christian really praise you, Tom, um, and just have admiration, you know, 100%, uh, about what he saw.

That's, uh, yeah, very gracious of him. Um, I guess I only know what possible because Roland's been doing it a year or two ahead of me, so I'm just trying to like keep up with him. But, um, no, it's certainly— yeah, that was interesting as well because I think it does become, you know, for all the age groupers and, you know, budding triathletes out there, um, and, you know, athletes of all types, it becomes very normal for the balance and busy routine to be the day-to-day. Um, and I guess it was actually— it was quite refreshing because Christian was, you know, generously saying similar things to Sophie and I when he was staying with us. Um, you know, that routine becomes very normal for us and for, you know, all the age groupers listening as well. And, uh, it was refreshing to hear someone who's clearly surrounded by that professional athlete, um, you know, schedule and timeline and time availability and things day to day, and not usually training with people who are perhaps balancing other things outside of their professional sport as much as well. Um, yeah, I guess it does make you realize what you, what you can fit in and, um at the same time also gives an insight into, you know, what the other side of the fence could look like. Um, and that as he is, you sometimes have to be patient and, you know, not overdo it because you do have all that time during the day. You know, like, he's still training a lot, but there's a lot more hours in the day than he is training. Um, so it was interesting to see that sort of discipline as well, to do what's required but not, um, fill the time with you know, things that might negatively impact your performance as well. So just, uh, I guess as I've referred to before, him leaning into that simplicity, uh, of getting the right things done and not overdoing it with other, you know, complicating things that add training or system stress as well. But, um, yeah, it was, uh, yeah, really nice of him to, to say those, those nice things about, about the bike.

I think that's good to hear, isn't it? Uh, that if you've got more time available, it doesn't necessarily mean you have to spend every minute doing that. You know, it, it's being smarter about the time you've got available. So that's a really good thing to hear as well. And we know that from when people go on holidays, that all of a sudden they're not working and they end up training the house down and, and putting them, putting themselves into a big hole because they've all of a sudden they've got 8 hours a day to train and they train like a pro. And, um, and the body's just not used to it. You can't just jump from, you know, not zero to hero, but from, you know, doing 10 hours a week to doing 25. So it's a really good reminder, isn't it? Just because you've got the time available, even a guy like KB is not training every day, all day. Um, uh, and yeah, I think that's, that's a really key important point to make.

And so, Dad, what was the conversation between you two? Because, you know, KB turns up and he says, Tom, here's my schedule for the week, you know, are you going to come along? You know, I'm going to go to the track and do 2400s, and it's a, it's a great opportunity to train with the world champ, but you also don't want to derail your own prep by just jumping into another program. So how did you, how did you think about that plan?

Yeah, Tom and I had a really good discussion about that, and, um, and in hindsight, it's also— we've had a discussion in the last couple of days about that. And so, did we get that right? Uh, did we get that wrong? Um, and there's no right and wrong in this. Uh, when you get an opportunity like this, you know, we're not going to bury our head and say, no, I'm, I'm sticking to my program here. My encouragement to Tom was get on board with whatever he's doing and try to manipulate the session so that you can still do it in your zones, but be present in the, in the pool or in the track that he's running or on the bike. And so I think Tom did a reasonable job of that, but as we both discussed after the race, probably did a little bit too much than we would like to have done. But I, I reckon that's worth it for, for one race, you know. In a career of 50, uh, I think it's worth sacrificing your own. That would be an exception to a lot of the rules. I'm not a big fan of people just jumping and following people blindly, but we didn't do that. You know, Tom went to the pool, did his own thing side by side with, uh, with Christian in one lane and him in another, and went to the track. Christian's doing 400s, Tom did a different session, but they were at the track together and on the bike together. They were doing slightly varied sessions but together. So I think, I think we did a good job of that. I don't know, I'd have to ask Tom whether he felt that that was, that was, uh, worthwhile or not, the way we, the way we planned it out.

Yeah, 100%. I think it was, um, I wouldn't have chosen to do it any differently in hindsight now, or, or as it was, to be honest. As Gerard said, it was a, you know, very much a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to train alongside someone like Christian, um, and for someone of his level. And, you know, Palmares to be open and willing enough to have someone just, you know, join in with him as well, which was unreal. Like, he was very happy for me to join every single session, do everything he was doing. Um, he wasn't sort of, you know, closed and, uh, cautious about, you know, not sharing or not wanting to, you know, be held up by someone who's, you know, not an Olympic Ironman 70.3 world champion level. Um, so that was awesome of him. And I think, uh, yeah, I definitely went into it knowing that you know, doing 5 hours plus more than my usual training week the week before race week wasn't going to be, you know, the most 100% ideal prep. But I also tried to look at it as a nice little micro boost, um, to then freshen up before the race and see how that went as well. So, um, I made sure, as Gerard said, to, you know, not do anything outrageous in terms of intensity or, you know, start ripping 400s on the track that my Achilles are definitely not used to. Um, so I just adjusted things to be appropriate for my training level and where I was at, um, but tried to join in and just learn from him and, uh, enjoy having someone, uh, such as himself for company and training as much as possible. Um, and I guess as Gerard alluded to in hindsight, you know, maybe it was a little bit too much load than an ideal race prep, but I would, you know, without a doubt do it all again, um, you know, to be like 30 seconds, a minute quicker on race day for one race where I'm, you know, in the sort of middle of the field anyway, um, that experience was worth its weight in gold for me. And I was yet so appreciative and grateful to get the opportunity to do it.

It brings up a really interesting conversation because, Tom, you're so humble, um, that you, you talk so graciously about the whole experience. And but we also want to be careful because there's two contrasting truths here. You don't want to put athletes on a pedestal that are like unattainable or unreachable. Like you've explained, he's a very, very regular guy and, um, and you get that experience, you know, and you're in that pro field, you know, you deserve to be there. At the same time, Christian is an outlier, and he is, in terms of his ability, is generational, and he potentially will go down as the greatest triathlete or endurance athlete in history so far by the time he's done in his career. Like, what he's doing is out of this world and hasn't been done before. So that part is true as well, you know, he kind of do put him on a pedestal because he's that good. But, you know, hopefully for you, you know, for you both, you're both so early in your careers, this isn't a once in a lifetime opportunity, you know, you get more and more access to mixing in with these guys and training with them more regularly. And Roland, holding your own on the Noosa Champs World Circuit, losing to Hayden Wild on the bike leg by 6 seconds. I know it's not a proper race, but Roland, your bike time this weekend was— you're in that field, you're with them, you're not apart from them. So I guess Roland, you flew in and managed a couple of rides with them as well. And there was a great video shot of a group ride with you, UKB, Wild, and a few of the others. Just absolutely motoring the, the, uh, Geelong, the, uh, the coastal road. Uh, how was that TT experience once you came down?

Yeah, again, as Tommy said, it was just surreal. And, um, you know, fortunately, um, had that experience with Hayden earlier in the year, so I managed to sort of tee up, um, you know, a bit of a group ride on the Saturday morning with Christian and Hayden just to sort of, you know, more so for the atmosphere experience sort of thing. But, um, you know, just also a bit of just fun, you know. Um, but it was incredible. And as Tommy said, you know, uh, I think the same goes for, um, Hayden and, you know, a lot of these top-end athletes though. But they are just, you know, at the end of the day, they are people. Um, you know, you sort of forget that fact when you see them doing these godly-like sort of performances. Um, you know, at the end of the day, yeah, they're just super down to earth, um, and genuine people. And I had a conversation with Christian and mentioned it to him, but I thought, you know, one of the things that I think is really, you know, admirable about him is that, as Tommy said, he's, you know, just very approachable. You know, I think, you know, from the experiences that, you know, you know, a lot of people probably had over the weekend, they got a chance to have a quick chat with him or get a photo with him, but he's just so— he's got a lot of time for, you know, a lot of people. And even, you know, you know, example by him having, you know, not the performance he was looking for in New Zealand and then sticking around, high-fiving people on the run course and sticking around to the end of the race. You know, I'm sure he was pretty upset, but, you know, I think that takes, you know, it shows a good, you know, good character to stick around and do that. So yeah, it was, you know, quite surreal just to see that and, you know, get an appreciation that It's one thing to be an incredible athlete, but also probably more importantly, it's about being a good person at the end of the day too. Yeah, but I mean, as I said, those two rides I think were possibly the highlight of the weekend for me. I think I just didn't want it to end really. And so I was a bit nervous about the race, but as I said, not expecting much. So I just actually just didn't want Saturday to end really because you got all these big hitters rolling around. Yeah, like Gaines was out riding at the same time that we were out with Christian Hayden. I always felt a little bit bad for him because I was like, oh geez, he's not part of the group. So I feel like we should have invited him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was incredible.

It was also great to see you guys going for a swim together with Christian and Hayden and, and Roland and Tom. And you know, they got changed in the TriVelo tent, which was really good for, for the for our little, uh, coaching community. And, uh, just a little story. One of our guys, uh, Damien Wood, who's got a, uh, a KDX bike, the same as Christian, and he absolutely loves Christian, thinks he's, you know, the best thing in the world. He brought a gold pen with him and, and sought him out, and Christian signed his KDX bike. And that, that was more, more value to, to Damien than the race was. And Damien raced unbelievably well on the weekend. I think he was inspired.

So unreal.

But those things, you know, those things that, that these guys do for, for the, the age group athletes, I don't think they understand how, how really special it is for those people. And, and for those guys to see you all go off for a swim together and Tom come out of the water first there, that was great to see when you're doing that, when you were doing that swim, even though you cut across the course. That's okay, mate.

If only I could swim half the course on race day, then I'd be, uh, I'd be fine.

I wanted to ask you, Dad, that you've been around top-level pro athletes for, for decades, uh, as well as hundreds or thousands of age groupers. And so yeah, we're lucky enough to have the guys KB and Wild at the Tribella 10 on the Saturday, you know, and getting around the athletes. What was your experience watching them prepare and perform, and based on what you've seen over your career, um, and, and lessons for the age grouper as well?

Yeah, I think, I think everybody does things differently. That's the first thing that hit me, that when I looked at what KB was doing, well, I looked at what Hayden was doing and their chatter. It was, it was really intriguing how, uh, varied their personality was, which is to be expected, but, um, quite chilled. And, um, it's, you know, one of many races they're going to do in their career, and, and they're not being defined by one race. That was the big thing that I was hearing all the time. You know, the race is on this weekend, tomorrow— this is on the Saturday— but yeah, then we've got this, this, this, and this. And, and so what happens tomorrow is not defining me. And I think that was the attitude that I was hearing, and I, I was loving that because as age groupers, we don't do that. We, we, we put everything into this one, one race. And I'm forever saying to our athletes that, you know, when you get to a race, you, you have to race to the form you've got on that day. And, and we're in this because we love the sport, we love competing, we love pushing ourselves, we love challenging ourselves. And there's just going to be another race somewhere. And for Roland to have that experience at Goondiwindi, which was really disappointing for him, and I didn't want him to repeat that, but he comes down with a really good attitude and has an absolutely great swim Fantastic ride, really mixing it up with Ben and really riding well together. And you know, we know he's the fastest 70.3, uh, bike time at Port Mac in the last— a lot of, a lot of races, Roland's been the top pro bike rider. So he was back in form. How is that possible 2 weeks ago when you weren't? It's got to be a little bit of a recovery with your body and fatigue, shedding that, but also the mindset of being relaxed and and not having pressure, the weight of the world on you. So, so I think there's a lot of lessons, you know. You would have felt that, Roland, wouldn't you? You raced differently with the attitude you had.

Absolutely. And I think it, it almost ended up being a bit of a double-edged sword because, as you say, I didn't have that expectation going in. So I, I thought I was feeling the, you know, on the Friday and the Saturday going for a ride, I, I had noticed a change in how I was feeling on the bike. And so I thought, oh, I could actually, you know, turn up feeling okay on the Sunday. And then, you know, tried out the new wetsuit on the Saturday, the Graduation wetsuit, which I know is probably not the best strategy, trying something new before the race day. But, you know, that was, I think, you know, having that sensation of a new suit and, you know, I was really performing well with that. And so I was really happy with how that was feeling. And so it just gave me a bit of an extra confidence boost coming into the race, just to sort of see, oh, um, you know, what, what I could do potentially without, you know, the, the expectation of for myself to try and eke out a, you know, a personal best performance. Um, but as I was saying, I think that maybe hindered me coming in towards the run where, you know, I've gone fairly hard on the bike and, you know, exerted myself quite decently, probably more so than what I've been used to in recent weeks. And so it gets to the point where the going's getting tough and you need to really hunker down and have a bit of, um, you know, uh, the fire in the belly, which maybe I was lacking a little bit on the run. Um, so I went out, you know, fairly conservatively, or well, conservatively, I guess, which again, probably not the worst thing.

But yeah, on the wetsuit thing, I don't think it's a problem. Like, it's just trying it the day before, at least you're trying it, you know, it's not brand brand new on the race day, or even though you haven't swam a full 1900 meters in minute. I don't think that's too bad. So we'll touch on the bike speed and times in a second, but take us back to the swim and, yeah, we'll kind of review the race from there and plus get your thoughts on how the pros went. So one by one, we'll go through the swim. Roland, how did your swim pace go and how did you compare to other years and against the pack?

Yeah, well, look, I think I knew obviously it's a top-class field, but I didn't feel like there was quite as much fear coming into the swim this year compared to last. Um, I think last year when there was— there's quite a lot of— I think the depth of field was actually probably stronger in last year's race, which sounds a bit silly when you're comparing it to, you know, this year, but there was like quite a lot of, you know, really fast guys there last year, whereas the top 3 were obviously, you know, the best in the world here. But then it— there was quite a steep drop-off, I guess, in the comparative quality. So yeah, I went into the swim with just a bit of, you know, the thought in my mind that I'm just going to try and, you know, I really want to just make that first or main chase pack and stick with them for as long as I could. So I tried to get a good position on the start line so that I could, you know, edge out in front, you know, use my height to an advantage and try and keep on running while everybody else has to start swimming, essentially. Um, and then yeah, I stuck with the main group. I think I was actually— Christian was breathing as I was breathing, was sort of locking, locking eyes essentially for the first K, which was pretty surreal. And I was thinking, I was sitting on his hip and I was like, oh, I'm probably slowing him down and I don't want to slow him down because I really want him to win. So I'll slot in behind his feet now so that I'm not hindering him. Because I would feel terrible if, you know, I watched it back and then saw that he got slowed down. Anyway, I was probably analyzing it too much at the time. I should have just focused on my own race and been a bit more selfish. But, um, yeah, it was, you know, quite surreal. And I was able to stick with that main pack up until, I think, the first sort of turn buoy, which is about 800, 900 meters in. And then, you know, the elastic band just got stretched a bit going around that. And, um, yeah, just fell off the back. But, um, you still you know, managed to come around. And I think what I'd probably call, like, one of my best swims I've probably had in one of these races. I think looking at the times, I did around 24 minutes for the swim, which isn't earth-shattering, but, um, you know, it's consistent improvement for me. Um, and I was about 90 seconds back off that pack. And then comparing that to last year, I think it was about a minute faster. Um, so I was, I was, uh, happy with the swim. Um, obviously I could have improved it. And, you know, might have had a completely different race result had I managed to stick with that group with Christian and Hayden and, um, you know, stuck with them. But, um, yeah, look, can't complain. And there's room for improvement there, which is always a positive thing.

It is so true what you just said then. Had you been able to just get on the back coattails of that group, then you've got a completely different ride, you know. You've got that— even though the 20-meter rule's in there, you've still got that bunch mentality of, of being able to ride together. And, and, you know, and we get to talk to Tom about that later on, but, but it is such an advantage and a disadvantage if you're not, you know, with a group. And, uh, yeah, that, that's so decisive, isn't it? The swim really dictates what happens next.

Absolutely. I think at these, you know, really competitive races where you've got guys that can do all three disciplines really well if you're not making it at the swim, unfortunately you're probably not going to feature at the pointy end. Um, uh, and you know, especially when there's other factors at play, you know, if there's, there's more motorbikes up the road, um, that, you know, they're invariably getting a benefit from. You can't directly say how much, but, um, you know, there's always a bit more of a benefit there as opposed to, you know, you know, for Tom and myself who are sort of out the back, you know, and just you're doing it more or less solo. Yeah, I think it obviously makes it a bit of a difference.

It's—

we see that in the cycling bunch as well, what you talked about with, you know, sitting on his hips and then sliding back into his feet. You know, cyclists talk all the time about, let's say they're in the front of the bunch with the world champs, you know, Van Der Poel or Pogačar or something, or they're getting a break with them. They kind of feel like they can't be dictating the race or making a move. And Dad, you always say to athletes, in any race, in a D-grade crit race or triathlon or anything, you're always saying to athletes, don't let anyone tell you what to do or where you should be or not. You're in the race, you deserve to be there, and if you're there, you're there. And it happens a lot in cycling, road races or crit races, where guys love to yell and guys love to have that power. And Dad, your thoughts are always, I don't care what someone says to me, I deserve to be here. And I think you experienced that yourself at the pro level, Dad, but also just in amateur racing.

For sure. And, uh, you know, I always laugh at people who are going to give out advice about what I should be doing, uh, that's mainly going to be suiting them. So, I need you to do this so that I can be better. And I always laugh. It's like, you know, you have no right to tell me what to do at any point. I'm in charge of my own destiny. And so for me to hear you say that, Roland, about trying to be kind for KB, that's very gracious of you. I love that attitude. But I'll be swimming over the top of him and putting his head underwater.

Now I'm not—

I'm joking, but, but you know, you've got to get a little bit more mongrel. And you know, you deserve to be there, mate, and so you should have stayed there. Because when you turned that turning buoy, you— if you had been probably on his hip, you might not have been behind the person who lost— we shouldn't say lost the wheel because that's the cycling term— but lost the feet of, of that front pack. So, so that's actually a little, you know, in hindsight you should say to yourself, no, I'm staying here because this is the, this is the guy I should be with. And, and yeah, they're the decisions that are going to kind of really dictate what happens next.

Any thoughts?

Absolutely. Yeah, well, having, as I said, I think it was almost a hindrance, you know, having spent a bit of time with Christian beforehand and seeing how nice of a guy he was. But also just, you know, yeah, As you say with Jordy, you know, when you're around these, these, you know, almost they are deity-like figures within the sport. They have that, this aura around them, you know, they earn their respect, you know, and rightfully so, you know, being one of the best, you know, endurance athletes in the world, you know, in my mind I'm like, okay, I think he's at the, at the right to have not some, you know, semi-pros, the hobbyists, you know, triathletes sort of, you know, get in his way.

Oh, hobbyist, that's great.

The humbleness keeps, keeps coming out. I understand how you got there though, mentally. Tom, uh, how did you rate your swim pace-wise, uh, execution in terms of the packs, um, time compared to previous years?

Yeah, um, it's always a little bit tricky analyzing because I'm always, you know, disappointed and wish I was, uh, swimming faster. But to be honest, I think I probably swam about what I'd expect expected to. Um, it was much the same as last year. Unfortunately, I felt like my swimming had sort of declined a little bit in, I guess, the 9 months since this time last year. And then I feel like I've sort of got back to about the point, um, that I was at Geelong last year. And that sort of showed pretty evidently. I think, uh, on the weekend I swam pretty much the same time, maybe 10 seconds faster or something. Um, uh, and much the same again, I was probably with a, uh, I could see a few people, as Roland alluded to. There was probably a bit more of a spread out in the field, um, maybe in the middle of the field this year. So there were a few people that I was sort of just, uh, couldn't quite stay in touch with before the first buoy, but after the sort of initial 300 or 400, you know, they were— I could see them like 10 meters in front of me, um, and I just couldn't get there to swim with them, um, which was better, like an improvement I think on last year, uh, you know, solo much earlier last year, um, but then yeah, from there it was a pretty lonely swim unfortunately. So Knowing that, you know, I can swim at 110%, uh, exertion, or I can swim at about 95, and I go, you know, probably faster if I'm trying to swim at 95 of my, uh, best sort of race effort anyway. I look to just lock into the most efficient rhythm I could, make sure my sighting was good. That's something that, um, at Sunny Coast when I was off the back with one other guy, our line of course was pretty poor, so that was a good learning there. And I tried to make sure that I was not put me any further than necessary, at least here, uh, and just get through the course as best I could, as efficiently as I could, um, praying that the women's pro field wouldn't catch me and looking to, uh, execute the best swim that I could with the position I was in at the time. But as we've discussed at length, then Rowan's alluded to, you know, every group that you swim, uh, higher up with— and for me it would be just making at least the, you know, the back chase group would enormously change how the race plays out from there. And full credit to Roland, he's had some swims, I think, last year that really didn't reflect where he was at in terms of his swimming. So it was really good to see him actually be in the mix with some guys that he could ride with properly on the bike, um, because his swimming's, you know, at a level that he deserves to be there. And that's something that I've just got to keep chipping away at to, uh, to get there, um, and to you know, be able to be in the race dynamics a little bit earlier. Um, but it was nothing unexpected to what I'd anticipated going in. Um, wasn't better, wasn't significantly worse, was pretty much on par with what I would have said was a pass.

Now, I think you're spot on, Tom. Uh, a lot of the times, and this might sound harsh, and you know the reason I'm saying is sometimes, sometimes we get what we deserve, and And that's a really cruel thing to say, but you haven't been able to train because you've had day shifts and night shifts in your job where the squad swims at 6 AM or 5 AM and you're, you know, you've just been at work all, all through the night. And so you're missing a lot of those opportunities that are no fault of your own. So everybody out there needs to hear that Tom is trying his best to improve his swim. He's, uh, you know, is with Brenton Ford, one of the best swim analysts going around in the world, um, from Effortless Swimming, and, and just can't get to a lot of those swim squad sessions because of your work roster. And so that's really limiting. So, so that's what I mean by you get what you deserve. You haven't been able to do the sessions. And so, you know, it's going to be each year you're swimming much better even though you're not improving. You're a better swimmer than you were a year ago and 2 years ago. But, you know, you just need a little bit of a crack at getting to those squad sessions that we talked about yesterday after our race analysis where we really got a real good plan ahead where get some open water swimming, get used to it, like we talk with the long run, like we talk with the long ride. Why aren't we doing long swims in the ocean? You know, they're going to be helpful for your swimming fitness. And, and so whilst the opportunity is still here, when the weather's reasonable, you know, get down there. When you only, you only need 15 or 20 or 25 minutes to go and swim a K or 1500, where you're getting used to, just like you do with your long run. Um, and you don't have to swim hard, you just have to get your body used to it. So there's a lot of things Tom is really trying to do, but just with his work schedule, it's been quite restrictive. So, so you end up feeling like you're stagnating. Um, because swimming's so different to riding and running. You can ride and run whenever you like because you're doing it mostly by yourself, but to improve in swimming, you need to be with a group and be challenged and be pushed and have a, have a, you know, someone there to actually help you with your technique. Because swimming is more technique than, than any other sport that I know. It's a skill that you have to really work on. And, uh, so I feel for you, but I think there's good things coming. That's what I feel, and I can't wait to see you join the back of a pack and then ride where you don't have to ride by yourself and you're getting the same fatigue levels as everybody else in the field, whereas you're riding solo and getting much more fatigue and then having to run, uh, you know, after doing your individual time trial, whereas everybody else has got someone around them where they're getting some periods of rest. So your day will come, don't you worry about that.

It's a scary thought to think, uh, what'll happen when he makes that those swim packs, because I think, you know, it's really the only missing piece for him at this point, I think. And it's quite worrying for myself because I think that's the only, the only thing I've got, you know, 1% on him over.

Um, so especially with you two guys always finish within 20 to 1 minute 30.

Yeah, yeah, I'm, I've really got to try and, you know, think what I can do to just keep step ahead. It's getting tricky.

Well, look, your bike time on the, on the weekend is certainly something that is going to be hard to catch. What did you end up with, Roland? And, and is that your best bike leg ever of a 70.3 course?

Um, I think I did a bit of time at Sunny Coast last year, um, and obviously they're two different courses. Um, so yeah, uh, this, I think this time was just just under 2 hours, which I'll take that time because I think that's, you know, something that when I first got into it I thought was impossible. So yeah, you know, you know, credit to, you know, the, the Trovélo coaching, you know, way you managed to squeeze as much out of me as you pretty much can. So that's great. Um, but looking at my power, I think it's probably PV power for a race. Absolutely. Um, I ended up averaging like 382 watts. I think for the 2 hours. Oh, just under 2. Um, and then normalized power was like around 391. So it was pretty, pretty constant, uh, pressure on the pedals. Um, but yeah, pretty, pretty, um, standout performance, I think, from that perspective, especially what I was expecting to go in with. Um, I was still a little bit confused, to be honest. I mean, as to how I bled still so much time from the front guys. I think you still had 4 minutes put into us from, you know, the Hayden Wilde, you know, Christian sort of group. And, you know, obviously these guys are also, you know, the best in the world, so not unsurprising. But obviously, you know, whether or not there's a bit of a dynamic at play with other race factors like the motorbikes and other things that we Lee spoke about, but it's one of those things you, you, you can't say for sure and you don't know. All you can control, sorry, is your own race, isn't it, at the end of the day. And so you just have to keep on working away to make sure that you're in the mix from the, the get-go.

Um, so yeah, I think, uh, you know, some perspective here. You're talking about the 3 best athletes going around who are, you know, the standout.

They're the standard, and you're that close, you know, 2 and a half minutes behind.

Yeah, yeah, Hayden was a little bit further, but Christian and Yellow were literally 2 and a half minutes ahead of you, uh, and yeah, that's the perspective you need to see. You are that close. And, and Tom rode by himself and he was only 2 and a half minutes behind you, Roland, which is, you know, even, even more impressive, even though that means it's 5 or 6 minutes behind Christian. But But Tom's the only one riding by himself, whereas everybody else has got someone to ride with.

Yeah, as did I. I had, you know, Ben Hill, an ex-pro cyclist. I think he was an ex-lead-out man, Tommy was telling me, for Tadej Pogačar. So certainly not the worst company.

Poggy used to lead Ben out. A young Poggy used to be Ben's lead-out man, which is a good claim to fame, I reckon.

That's gold.

That's unbelievable. That kind of power, 382 watts, you said it was your best power ever. Um, uh, how did you feel with that power? And you feel a bit more with the run legs? The run legs are probably never going to be there anyway based on form. And then also, what's— what kind of percentage of your FTP is that you're holding?

Um, yeah, look, as it was feeling during the race, it felt fantastic. You know, it's always a good sign, I think, if you can, you know, have a few words back to, you know, some of the people supporting you on the course, which, you know, I like to try and pay them back by being out there and screaming at me. So I tried to, you know, make a few remarks back to them. Um, so that was a good, good sign that the legs were feeling good. Um, unfortunately, my— I had a bit of a mishap with the nutrition where I think I forgot to fully connect one of the straws to, uh, on the bike. And so my main reservoir of nutrition on the bike, I couldn't actually have access to on the ride. So I really had only about, you know, 30% of the Mataga nutrition for the bike ride. Which didn't probably inhibit my riding as much, but I think it's probably had a little bit of an impact on the run and coming off. But I mean, it's not the first time we've done one of these things now. We're fairly seasoned in terms of, you know, coming into the racing, and I've made my mistakes previously in terms of going out far too hard and paying for it later on in the run. And so even with that, you know, in mind, saying that I'm going to be underdone with my nutrition, I went in thinking that, look, I'm just going to go out and try and pace this as best I can and, you know, minimize my losses, especially knowing that there's, you know, going to be a furious Dr. Page, you know, trucking up behind me, um, you know, as with other, you know, exceptional athletes as well. So that's why I sort of, you know, had that mentality coming in and Look, I felt like I was stuck in second gear on the run, essentially, which is a good sign, I guess, because I was thinking, you know, through 10 kilometers that if this were an Ironman, I probably would actually feel quite comfortable right now, which I think is a great sign. But I just couldn't really elevate to that next level, you know, to, you know, really mix it with you, you know, to— with the, you know, that middle echelon of um, you know, athletes. And I think I came off with the bike in around 7th or 8th with Ben Hill, and he asked me at the start of the run, he said, oh, what are you going to try and run now? And I said, well, look, you know, probably a 1:18 to 1:20. Um, there's just being, you know, realistic essentially. And, um, as I touched on earlier, potentially I was in my own mind about it, and I've, you know, so maybe caged myself there. But at the same time, I had Gerard in my mind saying, you know, just go easy to start and see how you're going, feeling through 10 kilometers, and you can reassess from there. Um, and so essentially, yeah, just plodded through the 10-kilometer mark and then saw the pace was around 3:50 to the 3:55. Um, and then I could see every time I turned around that there was, you know, uh, um, a group of about, you know, 5 to 6 people closing in fairly quickly on me. And, you know, little by little I did get overtaken by, you know, 3 or 4 guys who were running pretty intensely. But as I got closer towards the finish, I, you know, started just slowly ramp up and managed to do, you know, a reasonable sort of negative split towards the end to close out what was otherwise I don't want to say mediocre, but, you know, lower than what I know I'm capable of around.

Yeah, that's a fantastic breakdown. I do wonder how much the bike, the unbelievable bike leg impacted your run, plus the nutrition. I didn't know that part, so that's interesting to hear it now. But I asked you before about the percentage of FTP, and I wondered what you have it as, because I had it as— I think your best with us for 60 minutes of all time is— I don't know, is it 402 watts or 411 watts?

Um, probably 402. Yeah, but yeah, um, I reckon that's on a different power meter as well. Uh, Tom and I have both got these Magene power meters, which I think between ourselves anecdotally we've decided read a little bit under. Um, so I haven't done a formal FTP test on this power meter where I'm feeling 100%, but I think my, my all-time sort of FTP test that I've done, um, I think is part of, you know, one of those, the, the Tribello, uh, Thursday Night Race Series efforts, um, was around, I think, 455 to 460. Yeah.

Um, so probably 33 minutes or 35 minutes. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, I think it might have been, yeah, like a 20-minute test.

Oh, just 3 minutes. Yes.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

So, um, I can just quickly— what was the 380 over 460? Yeah, so around that 80% mark. Yeah, yeah, 82% mark.

Yeah, well, okay, but that's— so that's different power meters?

Different power meters.

Yeah, we can't even compare because— so you think this new power meter reads high or reads low? Well, uh, because your best outdoor— well, your best outdoor, if that— if we take 402 on the old power meter, it wasn't making sense to me because I'm going 382 watts is literally 95% of 402, which is like an incredible amount to hold for 2 hours. But we'd have to get a proper test. That's where the math wasn't that out for me. That's why I wanted a few new people going.

It sounds like I'm in trouble for the coming weeks. Yeah, exactly right.

So Tom, you rode a 203. How did you feel about your bike speed in that time? How does that compare to other years and the power that you could hold on the day?

Yeah, Interestingly, because my ride was probably, you know, more competitive in the field than my swim, but I was probably most disappointed with my ride. It wasn't terrible, but I was just hoping for a bit more. We'd done a good recon of the course with the Travelo group, you know, a few weeks earlier. And, you know, even with stopping at traffic lights and a few things, not having full race kit on, I'd ridden a little bit quicker. So I was— I'd sort of just gone into it hoping to— I don't think I would have— I know I wouldn't have even on my best day. I said to Gerard, I was never gonna ride the speed that Roland and Ben rode on the day, even if on my best day I think maybe like around a 2:01 something was probably like my peak performance on the weekend. Um, so I felt like I was just a minute 90 seconds off what I'd probably hoped to, uh, to be riding just based on the power numbers I've been riding in training, um, power numbers I rode on the day, and then similarly speeds you know, in training on the same course. Obviously different day and can't compare, um, but I interestingly, like almost the opposite to Roland, I felt a little bit stuck in second gear on the bike. Um, exactly as Roland said, you know, I was sort of stuck around that like, uh, 300 to 310 watt like average mark in the sections. You know, having gone through the Grace of Gerard, I was pushing more my target power in the sort of 320 to 330 range and doing that for some good sections, but Overall, just bled a bit of time through some other sections that sort of, I think, reduced the overall power and speed to more than the 3.0-somethings, which is, uh, yeah, pretty much like down there, as low as I've ridden power-wise, um, more or less in the last couple of years. Um, but, uh, yeah, again, felt like my— I could see my heart rate was coming down on the second lap. I just couldn't really push the power. Um, and I was, I was trying my best to, as well as trying to be as efficient as I could on the course. Um, but my legs did feel a bit heavy and sore, more so than I would like to feel sharp and punchy for race day. Um, and then I think, to be fair, that probably, you know, in almost the opposite way to Roland, helped me on the run because I'd probably underwritten for, you know, the sort of exertion my legs were used to. Um, just not being able to quite get the system revving, but I felt like I was, you know, in a pretty good position starting the run to, to, uh, you know, get a good stride. Um, I had this energy availability. Unfortunately lost a bottle on the bike as well, which was, um, silly mistake of mine using a different, uh, slightly different bottle to what I've trained with because I've never lost a bottle in training on all these roads. And I used a different size, slightly different material that just popped out one of those speed bumps, um, despite, you know, I've been hitting them pretty hard in training to make sure. So that was fault of my own and had to, you know, hit an aid station, um, as efficiently as I could to get some gels on the bike. But, uh, you know, happened to Roland, probably happened to every other person out on the course on the weekend. So not unique to me at all. But, um, a few things that I think, yeah, probably just could have, uh, sharpened up a little bit, um, so, you know, add that 10 to 15 watts and hopefully, you know, maybe half a km/h with that, and I probably would have been a bit more pleased with the ride. But, um, I think it did give me the, uh, I guess, energy and, uh, system availability to, to close off with a better run, um, than I have previously.

Yeah, and that said, I mean, your running keeps improving, your you're in just your training runs where you've done PB after PB, I think, in training over the last few months, just as training runs, not even all-out half marathon efforts, where I think you're down to the 1:13s now. Is that right? In some training, you know, progressive efforts, which is— yeah, yeah. And then you've done a PB on the weekend of 1:15:25, which is very, very impressive at the back end, your fastest ever half marathon off the bike, very close to your fresh running of what you're capable of. So So yeah, despite all that, that was a great way to finish the race. And mentally really tough when you've had two legs that you weren't stoked with to come and pull that out. That must have felt all right.

Yeah, for sure, for sure.

I think I was, um, as I'd actually been, I actually been riding quite well in training in the, you know, the month leading up. So I was, I was pretty keen to get out on the new Giant Trinity and, and let it rip as best I could as well. But, um, yeah, it was, I guess, a little bit frustrated closing out the ride knowing I was sort of around that 2:03 mark rather than closer to the 2-hour point that I've been sort of striving for. So, um, again, as Gerard always says, you just control what's in front of you, try and focus on, you know, what is it within your control, and not let the, you know, results or, you know, external factors sort of influence what's happening. And, um, just look to hit a good rhythm, um, with my run. And, uh, yeah, it was, was really pleased to be able to, to get a best run today. I reckon, I don't know how Roland feels, but chatting to a few people, I think the slight change in course is probably a little bit tougher as well this year. Um, there's a little bit more of an up-and-down hill again out the east end of the course that I felt like it was a bit harder, uh, to keep the pace higher than the previous course. So, um, yeah, to run faster than last year, which it was a run I was happy with as well, was, um, yeah, it was really pleasing and, uh, nice to know that that's steady. It's not, you know, leaps and bounds um, in terms of performance, but it is really pleasing to just slowly be etching away sort of 20, 30 seconds, uh, here and there on the run. And, um, I think I've had a chat to Gerard. I guess this probably leans into moving forward a little bit, but, you know, trying to probably raise my ceiling a little bit in the run now with, as you mentioned, running close-ish to like my fresh, um, you know, best pace, uh, that might be something to look at to try and run what I guess my current fresh PBs off the bike, particularly if I am, you know, realistically still going to be coming through the field. Um, and with the 20-meter rule, you know, giving even, you know, people that are riding in a group a bit more of an honest ride in the legs, I think continuing to hone my run and ensure that I can make my way through the field as far as possible, um, will be really important going into future races this year and beyond.

Fantastic.

Here I want to throw it to the coach and just get your reflections on all that.

Yeah, just on, uh, Tom's, Tom's runner, which is really, uh, I always push in our, in our age group athletes at TriVallo perspective and just not to forget where you were running not that long ago when you first, you know, really got into the sport in a big way. You know, you would have been happy to break 1:20 and then 1:19s, then 1:17s. And Roland's the same, you know, uh, it doesn't, doesn't happen in 6 months. It's, it's a journey over a long period of time, which the motivated athlete absolutely hates because we want it now. And, and, you know, you're now down to 1:15s, and, you know, there was a time there where you couldn't break 1:20, and you're literally running 5 minutes faster and still riding, you know, as competitively as ever. And I think that perspective is super important, that you don't lose sight of that. And I think, you know, thinking about the week with KB and, and having a little bit of, you know, probably more duration in the week's training than you would normally have. So you're not actually peaking the way you want to. I think we can't underestimate that. And also, when you're chasing an event, like when you're coming out the back, you know, Lionel Sanders has a really good feel of what you're going through. Um, you have more tension in your body. And the example was the day we had did the, uh, recon ride, you rode with a relaxed attitude where there's no one— you're up the front, no, you're not chasing anybody, you're getting into the rhythm. Whereas, you know, you're trying to chase the field and it puts more pressure even though you don't think it does. These are the things that make you ride less well, less efficiently, if you're always under this tense muscle action where, you know, I've got, I've got to really make every second count. Whereas if you just got that relaxed attitude, you can actually just ride as efficiently without the, you know, same effort. And but I think, yeah, lots to be positive about. And I think your attitude of making the most of the run, even though I'm disappointed badly with my swim, disappointed not so badly with the ride, but you're, you're hard on yourself. But here you do, you come out and you absolutely concentrate on now I've got the run. Not carry baggage from the swim or the ride. And the age groupers could take a lot out of that, you know. And you got the best out of that, Tom. You actually got yourself to 14th place, whereas it was looking like you were going to come in the, you know, 20th, 24th. You know, you've run, you've run really well and got something out of that and, and had some confidence-boosting, uh, feel about the, the event. And, uh, I think that's important to remember. And, and Roland's the other way, you know, really having great swim and great ride and then, then saying, okay, I'm not going to make the mistake of just trying to run with Ben. You know, that's going to blow me up totally and have a shocker of a run. So you actually held— you held and limited your losses very well, Roland, by, by, you know, taking your own advice. Because you've done that many times. You've done it at Geelong where Tom's actually passed you in the last 600 meters to lose the race by starting at 3:20s and ended up running at 3:50s. And you've done it the other way around 350s and finished at 320s. What a different experience for you. And, you know, and you held your, held your position rather than, you know, absolutely have no, no impact on what you can do, and you're just relying on other people not passing you, whereas you were able to stave them off, which I'm super proud of. So yeah, two contrasting races, but, uh, you both really, uh, are improved athletes way beyond what you think you are, and you've got to remember that.

Yeah, and I want to put some perspective on that as well, unless you guys had something to add to that, uh, race reflection-wise.

Or I was just gonna say, I think Tommy's overly hard on himself because he's still, I think, gone sub-3:50 on a much harder course than it was last year too, which is an improvement on, you know, the time, you know, that he did. And as he said, that the run course was significantly harder in my opinion. I'd say a minute or two slower. So I think it's—

play a bit of, uh, impressive compliment table tennis and say to, uh, to have held For Roland to have held tough and still, uh, run a consistent, like, respectable run, though he's, you know, we all know he can run a faster half marathon off the bike. But after running 390 watts for 2 hours, uh, less than 2 hours, uh, the best, better part of it was, uh, yeah, pretty impressive. I was, uh, it was pretty unreal to see him not, you know, fall apart and, uh, just trudge through, but actually hold strong. And by the looks of having a quick deep dive of his, uh, his Strava file, looked like he finished strong as well. So he, he managed his effort really well, I think, for, for where he was at on the day. So very tremendous.

And, and look, like, the times you guys are doing, you know, 3:49s for a 70.3, uh, again, compared to where you've come from, but also the field, it's like you guys are improving, but the field is also just improving. And, and seriously, if you looked at the Geelong results from 2022 or, or earlier, the winners are running 71 minutes, 72 minutes, you know, the top athletes are running 73 minutes, um, and you're within reach there, but it's just because freaking KB's run 66 and, and Yellow and Hayden have run 67 each that it looks so more extreme. And the guys at the very, very top are dramatically improving still, so you've got to keep up with them. And the whole field is, is shifting up as well, but, but that's making it very competitive. But, you know, you take these times and from where you've come from the last couple of years, the improvement is massive. And then it's just kind of relative to the field, it's getting very strong. So yeah.

I also think, you know, it's really good that, that KB keeps telling people, you know, when we ask him, you know, the journey for the Olympic Games was a 10-year journey. Like, Tom, how long have you been doing triathlons for?

Or maybe better part of 4 or 5 years, I feel. There must have been.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, probably about the same.

So, you know, it's really an obvious statement, but, but we don't acknowledge it, that you're very early in your careers, you know, you're in your early 20s. KB started doing this when he was 17, 18, and now he's 28. Yeah, 28.

Uh, early 30s, 32.

Yeah, yeah.

So to clarify that, he said it was a 10-year journey to the Olympics, which was 2021, you know, 2020, and then it's been 6 more years since then. So this is a 16-year career for him to be in this position, you know. So I think that's really good perspective.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, that's the point. That's the point I'm trying to get is, you know, you're 10 years behind where he is in terms of longevity in the sport, which don't disregard, that's impactful in an enormous way. And we always talk about it as, you know, as people who come to the sport, you, you start to see really good improvements initially, and then at the 2, 3, 4 year mark, all of a sudden you get this big jump. And then you think about what happens when you get to 5, 6, 7 years. It's, it's— you're just— and you're already doing that, you guys. You know, you would have been happy breaking 4 hours here, and then 3:55s and 3:52s. Now you're both under 3:50, and you know, that's, that's taken 5 years. Um, but you know, you're 11 and 12 minutes quicker than you were on a course that's arguably a little bit tough.

Yeah, it's awesome. It's a cool reminder for you too. And, and yeah, you just keep chipping away and, and see Sometimes you do get like big jumps, which happens to a lot of athletes. You see it all across sports in running or cycling or triathlon where just suddenly things just start clicking, you get big jumps, or otherwise you just keep getting these little improvements. It's so good to see. And when you're riding PBs, when you're cracking 2 hours consistently, Roland, when you're running a PB off the bike, Tom, it's cool just to— when you keep getting that, it adds up over time, which is awesome. I wanted to finish with just a bit of a race review of what you thought of the pros. You probably didn't see much of the pros because you were racing, but men's and women's, there was some epic racing up the front. So after seeing the replays and stuff, what were you guys' thoughts on that?

Yeah, I mean, it was pretty surreal. I mean, I mean, some people probably touched on it, but we got almost front row seats. I sort of was watching them turn around. I saw KB sort of hanging off the back on the bike and thought, oh no, he could be in a bit of danger here. And I got a bit worried for him. And I saw Hayden off the front and I sort of, you know, I think like most thought that, you know, he's going to get away with it here. And then on the run, I just got snippets where I was on the top of the hill, they were down on the waterfront, and I could see KB like a man possessed running. And I got some, you know, Tom's partner Sophie told me that, you know, KB's coming through the field. And, you know, yeah, I definitely got excited by that. And then I think as I was just coming through town to finish off my last lap, KB was coming the other way to the finish line, and I gave him a bit of a cheer and got a smile back. So that was, you know, got me going for the last bit of my run too. So that was fantastic.

Yeah, that was unreal. I was similarly a little bit apprehensive seeing him just dangling off the back of that front group on the bike at each of the sort of out-and-back sections. Trying my best to keep my head down, but I couldn't help but notice him there. But it was impressive that he— I think he rode really, really intelligently. I think he just rode to, you know, a lot less surgy, but stayed in touch and definitely lost a bit more time than I think he would have liked to ideally. With a bit of the traffic on the second lap perhaps. But, um, I'm not sure how one gets off the bike a minute 40 down Hayden Wilde and, uh, just butters up and thinks, all right, let's, uh, let's have it, and just goes for it. It was, um, pretty, pretty amazing to see him catch up and then take the lead. And, uh, I have to say, you can probably look through my heart rate data, every time I crossed paths, you know, I was absolutely shrieking at him to, uh, to go for it. Um, And it definitely, it honestly was extremely entertaining to, you know, do half a lap of the course and cross back over again and see what was happening. Um, was actually a really nice mental freshen up. Uh, and I think I probably dropped a few slightly too quick kays in the middle when I saw him kick the front, have a lead. I was just thriving with adrenaline. I was absolutely, uh, so pumped for him. Um, and so I realized he was about to finish and I still had to run the final 7k or whatever I had left out. And reality hit home a little bit. But, um, oh, as Roland said, you know, with the swim, we were absolutely rooting for him all day and, um, was so, so pleased, um, that he could have such a phenomenal performance, uh, run and run the way he did. Some of that I'm sure people would see who listen to this podcast. Some of the videos of him running are just the most mesmerizing view of dedication and commitment and just absolute grit and determination. Like, he's you know, in some of these videos he's got 10K to go and he looks like he must be running down the finishing chute. He's just putting himself to the absolute, uh, limits of, uh, his performance. So it was super inspiring to see, um, to see such a world-class performance, uh, in Geelong, of all places.

Credit to him. I mean, he, he coached himself perfectly through it. He did a huge Ironman block, felt like he was ready for the Ironman, didn't turn out because he got sick. Then he said, right, I'm getting my speed legs back, and he told us in the podcast and He trained with you, Tommy. He said, I'm doing these 20x400s, all sub-3-minute pace, all off a minute, getting that turnover. And then he ran like it in the race. He said on the pod, I want that 3:05 to 3:10 pace to feel comfortable, which is just blistering pace for a half marathon. And he did it. And he just looked like he was running a 10K in the ITU World Champs. He was holding it for the half marathon. It was so good to watch.

Crazy. I think the final Sunday, like a week out from race day, I just had an easy 50-hour, hour and a half run. And I'd sort of join him for his track warm-up and then just did my session on the side and came back and, you know, said, how was the session? I saw him do his last rep actually, which I've still got a video of, which is pretty cool. And he said he was, you know, thought he was running at, you know, 68 sort of pace. And, you know, by the end he was running 61s, a couple of seconds quicker per 400 than he was even thinking or feeling like he was. And I think you Started to feel pretty dangerous around that time for the upcoming race, and it was great to see it come to fruition on Sunday.

We can actually, uh, just, uh, end up with a thanks so much, guys, with, with the time you've given us today. And I know your time's precious. Roland's got to get to night shift duty, and, uh, Tom's got a bit of a training session to go to. Uh, Jordy's dropped out because he, he obviously got better things to do. And, uh, and so I just really want to reiterate how grateful we are that you're giving your time, mate. And for both of you to, uh, to be so generous. It's really, really good because one day you guys will be in Christian's position, I'm sure, if you stick at this. And, uh, and your, your attitude and your generosity is, uh, you know, it's, it's really fantastic for all the age groupers out there to, uh, hear your stories. So, so once again, thanks so much, guys, for being on board and, uh, and for really giving your time.

No, thanks, Jerry. Just grateful to be part of the, um, tribal community and you know, give back what we can. Absolutely.

Yeah, pleasure to jump on. There's only one big blue, but if we, uh, keep chipping away, Gerard, you never know where the two of the fellas might end up.

That's right. Fantastic, guys. All right, talk soon.

Thank you.

Cheers, Gerard.