Marathon Legend Steve Moneghetti

This episode of the Get Fast podcast is brought to you by Trivalo Coaching, where we help triathletes and cyclists like you train smarter to race faster. You are joined as always by your host, Australian Ironman champion Jared Donnelly. And I am Jordan Donnelly. In today's episode, we have a very special guest. And we say this about every guest, that they are special. And we say almost every time. We loved the interview and it was one of our favorites. And this was just absolutely no different. This was an incredibly special interview with the one and only Steve Moneghetti. Any runner, if you are in the running scene at all, will know Steve Moneghetti's name. Every runner grows up hearing about monitors and his accolades. He's one of Australia's greatest marathon runners, four times Olympian with the best place of fifth at the Olympics in the marathon. One of his best performances was getting bronze at the marathon world championships in Athens. In 1997. He won a gold, silver and bronze medal or two bronze medals at the Commonwealth Games, a marathon PB of 20816 where he won the Berlin Marathon. And something that's very important to him as well is that he still holds the course record for the iconic Sydney's city to surf, which is 4002 and that still stands 30 years later. So there's some of his accolades, but boy, did we have a pretty special chat with him, didn't we?

Yeah, what a, what a calm arrays of results he's got. And to talk to him and listen to his philosophy on how he went about his career is truly worth listening to, whether you're a banker, a painter, a marathon runner, a cyclist, the way he went about it, we could learn so much from his journey. And that's what was intriguing to me and to you. Listening to story after story about particular races, preparation, his attention to detail, all the things that we talk about in our podcast, he epitomized in his career. And I just loved the whole conversation and it could have gone on for hours. And he has some unbelievably funny stories and just the simplicity, the way he just kept everything simple and he hardly ever changed the session over that training period of 20 something years, being an elite sportsman in his chosen sport. And the main thing that came through to me, Jordan, was his preparedness to be consistent and you know, not just talk the talk, but he walked the walk. And I just love everything about what he said today and I really hope the listeners get a lot out of it.

Absolutely. There were two key standout things for me One of them was just a really, really good lesson. And that was. I'm surprised at how simple the lesson was, but I can't wait for you to hear it. It's kind of the overarching theme of the whole chat. And the second thing that stood out was that we asked him what he thinks the most important sessions are, and he gave the exact same answer as we would give. So we were really happy with that. Our philosophies are really aligned. So without further ado, here is our epic chat with Steve Montaguetti. Okay, we've got Australian running legend Steve Montaguetti on the line. Steve, thank you very much for joining us.

No worries. Good to be along and good to catch up with you out at Buninyong or Mount Helen recently. And congrats on great team performance out there. It was terrific to see.

Yeah, thank you very much. You would have been impressed with your friend Julian Painter cleaning up. And with three victories that week, yeah, he's pretty understated.

We don't know how JP sort of made the transition across to cycling, but he looked pretty good. So now he had a great weekend and was terrific. You know, he's. He's a fantastic fellow, and, you know, we've known him for a long time, and he was one of the best roomies I ever had. So he's just a great fellow and it's terrific to see. You know, I think it's a. You know, it's a difficult transition across, and he's been such a successful runner. You know, I know him as the runner and, you know, the level that he got to, for him to then be able to reset and get some goals that he wanted to achieve in cycling and to be able to really make that transition. It's been difficult at times. He's had his ups and downs, as I'm sure we're all aware. And it's a credit to him that he's stuck in there and now having the success that he so richly deserves.

Absolutely. We love to see it and we do love JP ourselves. So I want to start with a little bit of a story. When I was 8 to 10 years old, I can't remember about that age, dad and I were sitting in the car in the city waiting to get warmed up for the run for the kids. We were there quite early. We were sitting in the car and dad handed me the paper, and it was Steve Montague's Top Training Tips or Top Racing Tips. And dad was my coach, and he said, you know, you should be paying attention to what Steve Monegheni has to say here, and I think that's really indicative of your presence in running culture in Australia. You're a running legend from the community level, which is, you know, a lot of these fun runs you're involved in. The Herald sun kind of tips right through to the elite level. But to start off with, we want to know, what does running mean to you on a personal level?

Yeah, well, that's a nice segue, Jordan, because I actually, you know, I came from a cricketing family. I kind of wasn't, wasn't meant to be a runner and none of my brothers, sisters, uncles, aunts, nephews, cousins, none of them are runners. So I was. There was never any expectation that I would run and I didn't actually start running until I was 14, which, you know, in running terms, I was fairly old and I just loved the environment. I played a lot of team sports. I actually liked the individual nature of running. I remember going out to my first race, cross country race, out at Lake Burrumbee, and I liked the fact that my performance was what it was. I couldn't blame the other people in the team or if I ran well, my result justified that. If I did it, I couldn't explain it except I just had to go back and train harder. And that sort of contrasted a little bit the team stuff because I could play well at footy or cricket and we might lose and, you know, you're kind of half happy, but you're not. Whereas with running pretty straight up, you know, your result speaks for itself. So I love that environment and the enjoyment aspect. I found it really social. That sort of club running atmosphere really attracted me and I kind of went home that day and said to my mum and dad, gee, you know, I love this. I think this is something I'm going to really do for a very long time. And, you know, here we are, whatever it is, 44 years later, still, you know, basically loving running. And it's my passion for running that that comes through, not my success. And if I was good at it or not, it wouldn't worry me. You know, obviously, you know, it ended up that I was pretty successful, but it was the passion and enjoyment that kept me involved in it. And, you know, you talk about Julian and the experiences that we have, the friendships that I made. I just missed a call from Pat Scammell, who. We had some great experiences overseas. Another distance runner that's become a really close friend through sport and, you know, that's been the real bonus for me to be able to continue to do it. And when you love what you do, for me, it's not hard to go to events and catch up with people. I love doing it because it's something I've got so much enjoyment out of.

That's a great answer. And look, it's been really intriguing to Jordan and I over the journey of our 70 or so podcast to interview some really quality athletes in their own field, whether it be a runner or cyclist or whatever. The thing that comes through all the time is their love and passion for what they do.

And.

And you've just summarized that beautifully. And if you absolutely love doing something, there's no mistake, you will get better at it regardless, because the enjoyment factors there. I wanted to ask you, Steve, when you were at that early beginner age and you were just enjoying the aspect that I'm in charge of my own destiny here, you still like the social side, where the team environment would probably have that aspect of it, what was it sort of the. The differences between. You found that, you know, running solo but still being in that group environment, was that. Did that count a lot to you to have the social side, or were you just happy just to go along and run and do your thing and then. And then sort of move on?

I know I loved it. Not, you know, I'd run out of school. You know, I wasn't a great student, but as soon as I'd finished school, I'd be out, you know, couldn't wait to. We had a couple of older people in our running group that would pick us up and we'd go out training and, you know, I used to have Friday nights off, but every other day I'd be keen to run. And we used to all the five clubs as there was back in the 70s and 80s. We'd all run together on Sundays out at Kirk's Reservoir. And whilst you were running sort of for yourself, you were certainly making friendships and talking and having that experience of building friendships along the way. And. And, you know, the old rule that we still use now that if you, you know, if you can't talk when you're running, you're running too fast. So that's a perfect example of that. And we've had so many characters over the journey, Jerry, as you would have in your groups, I'm sure, but, you know, they ebb and flow and, you know, you have people who are real characters and some people who are deep and meaningful and, you know, religious, non, you know, all male, female, all with different attributes. And it's just it's amazing to think over that time how people come and go out of the groups and different personalities and the group's up for A while, there's 20. Then, you know, you're back to just you for a while and suddenly it builds up again. But all that, all along the way, we're kind of helping each other. It's a strange thing that, you know, we turn up at the race and we all want to beat each other, but when we're out training, we have a deep respect for helping each other to make sure that we all can benefit from the training. And it's that group effect and the end of the day, we're all better for it.

Fantastic. And look, the next question obviously is, who were the influences in your early days? And we know there's some unbelievably great runners and coaches in Australia over the journey from, you know, Pat Clohesy and Percy Serity and, you know, there's so many legendary. Rob Di Costello, who in particular was your inspiration and who was guiding you as a 14, 15, 17 year old.

Again, it was a nice coincidence. My English teacher here in Ballarat was a guy called Tony Benson, who was a legend in Ballarat and held the Lappa Lake record before I broke it. So he was my English teacher and said, oh, look, I see you doing a bit of running. Do you want me to set out some training for you? So he became my first coach and I stayed with him till he moved to the Philippines and my career was just sort of wavering a little bit. And you probably know Tony's a very successful triathlon coach as well and great fellow who lives in the Philippines now and then. So I swapped. I moved from Tony in about 1983, so I was 21 and just in that senior ranks, I was just sort of leveling out a little bit and had a bad run at a world cross country trial up in Sydney. And a person, I remember it sitting on Bronte beach and right, o' Connor said to me, oh, it sounds like you're just a bit sort of disillusioned. You might need to look at a new coach. And he said, I've got a guy that coaches me called Chris Wardlaw. You know, you might want to follow that up. Followed it up and it's been a match made in heaven. And, you know, I don't need coaching now, but he's still my coach and we're great friends and that was. It's just been an unbelievable relationship and that he basically mentored and coached Me, because, you know, obviously I was in Ballarat, he was in Melbourne. So I'm really meticulous with my training. He, Chris is a bit more erratic, but it was just the perfect combination. And, you know, I think you probably know the monofartlick and the story about that and how Chris and I bumbled over that over the phone. And so those two people have been very significant in my development. And they, you know, I look back now and then, you know, fortunately for me, not sure people also might know that I made my first international team. So Australian team that was for a multi sport was Commonwealth Games in 86. And lo and behold, I roomed with a guy called Rob DiCostello and he showed me the ropes. I was a young sort of naive kid and I saw how he operated and couldn't have a better mentor than Rob and I learned so much from him and hopefully I'll be able to pass that on then to the next group. So it's all. And you know, the succession planning of Pat Clohesi, he coached Chris Wardlaw and Rob de Castella. And I remember Chris, Chris sort of had the pack in Melbourne and Pat sent this young buck along and he sort of sat in and Chris and Tim o' Shaughnessy and a few of the boys sort of said, you know, just sit there and, you know, just behave yourself. And suddenly this kid got a bit better and a bit better and a bit better and started sticking it to him. And of course it was Deke. So there's that succession of Pat clo Hessey then coming through Chris Wardlaw and Deacon. You know, now myself and I see that the massive benefits in group running and that's been, you know, being identified. I think it's one of the, certainly the successes of Australian distance running. And long may it continue.

Yeah, that's great to mention those. You know, they're really household names for all the runners out there, you know, and your relationships are obvious how it's really, you know, managed you to be the runner that you are. And I suppose the next question on that is you mentioned Mona Fartlek and you know, fartlek's from a Swedish running style. You know, back in the. I remember still my dad showing me books about this Swedish type of running fartlek, where you use the terrain to run. If there's a hill, you run hard. If there's a downhill, you run easy. And I'm really intrigued as to how you. I mean, Monafartlik is so well known in Australia now. I Think people believe that, you know, fat leg is monoflig?

Yeah, yeah, I've been around too long, they're starting to forget it was me. I often had the situation of people going oh, I'm doing monofuttling, you know, that's me, that's, they don't understand but and we really, you know, as I mentioned, I'm quite meticulous so I like it. I don't like the free flowing nature of fartlek, so. And that's as you've mentioned Gerry, that's exactly what fartlek is. But I'm so meticulous that I had to have it set out and Chris wanted me to do. I remember the phone call vividly and, and when he started coaching me and he's, and he said on Tuesday, you know, do some fartlek. And I said oh, what do you want me to do? And he said I just 20 minutes of something. And I said what is it? Maybe some minutes. And so I sort of, while our conversation was continuing I'm kind of writing some stuff down thinking, you know, if I do four by a minute. And then I sort of came up, I don't know, I think he might have said some 30 second reps as well. And by the end of the conversation I said, you know, how about, you know, two by a minute and a half, four by a minute, four by 30 and four by 15. And he said is that up to 20 minutes? I said well if you do the same recovery as you just did the rep, it does. And he said well that's fine, that's exactly how we got to it. And I think the difference, Gerry and Jordan, that people need to understand is the thing that I introduced in my training that may have been accidental because I think it was a way of me getting rid of a few of my teammates because I found that I got better when I did it this way was I didn't jog in between. And even, you know, the deep session, the eight, four hundreds on the track with the 200 float recovery. It is a float, you know, we were running sometimes we were running, we were running the float bloody quicker than the rest. I reckon when I was doing it on occasion, you know, we'd run 36, 37 seconds for the 200 recovery. So you can imagine we're only running sort of 64, 65 for the reps so we weren't slowing down much and a lot of people would do my Fartleko, they turn up and we do the first 90 seconds and they'd be jogging along, looking around, talking, thinking, how good is this monofartlick? No, this is not that hard. And then we get to the end of the 90, and obviously we'd sort of keep rolling. We'd hardly slow down at all. And they'd be stopping and they'd be yelling out, going, no, that's it. It's 90. We're over. It's time to jog. What's going on? And then obviously, it's that cumulative effect of, you know, you get fatigued by the second. You know, the last couple of minute reps are tough for everybody, and then you hang in there. I always tell people to try and keep the pace up. So I don't care if you slow down, but make sure there's a difference between your rep and your flight. So don't be just getting into the stage where you're so fatigued. You just think, I'm just going to run this in and finish the 20 minutes and see how far I get. It doesn't work out that way. I try to keep people doing the reps. And lots of people, you know, feel guilty. They bastardized it. You know, they do 2 by monothertic or they skip the 15s and they do 4 by. I don't care. It's hardly. Who cares? You know, I'm just glad that they're out doing something that's, you know, technically getting them trying to run faster.

I'm really glad you've clarified that, because dad and I have actually had multiple discussions about it. And again, as a little athlete, um, we started doing monofat, like, when I was 12. And in our running groups, we would do the total opposite. You know, we would be going hammer and tong as hard as we could in 90 seconds and basically at a shuffle or a walk in between. That was just how our group did it. And we've always wondered, how did you originally intend it to be? Um, and we've evolved it ourselves a little bit for triathletes because we do it a lot in our own programming. Um, but yeah, we do it. We kind of extend the time a little bit more because triathletes more endurance. And yes, it's less disparity between your hard and your easy. Again, more specific for endurance athletes. And we always wondered if that was what you intended for, especially being a marathon runner. So it's really good to hear that.

Yeah. And it's 20 minutes. It's time, so you can do it anywhere. That's what I like about it. Round and oval golf course you know, I've done it all places, all around the world, you know, you can do it down there. I remember Trippy and I, we were doing it on a, on a bike path up at the, up in Brisbane where we were staying before a big event up there. And I remember I hadn't sort of scoped the course. The bike path ran out onto the freeway and because we're halfway through the 20 minute fartle, we weren't stopping. So we were running down this freeway. Oh my God, how we didn't get cleaned up by some semi trailer doing about 100 down the freeway. But we had a few people honking the horn going what are you idiots doing out here? But with Spartle we had to get it done. We're serious athletes, so we did.

I think that sums up the attention to detail that we're sort of going to explore here a little bit in, in your, in your interview here. But talking about particular sessions and this is something Jordan and I are always discussing, you know, what, what is the best bang for your buck? What session in your career? Looking back and I, I know you're going to say they all count but, but where do you think you got the best result from? What session do you think stood out?

And if you.

The one that you couldn't miss the session that was too good to miss.

Well Jerry, you'll be surprised because it's not really a session, it's a long run. And if I tell people now if you can only do one thing this week and I tend to base my coaching around a week still unfortunately 7 days, be nice if it was 8 just for synchronicity, but it's 7. So the long run on the weekend, you know, it's vital. And obviously we used to do it on a Sunday because we'd have our club race on a Saturday afternoon. So we do the long run Sunday. Now it's more difficult because you know, lots of events are on Sunday mornings. But that long run is crucial and I think probably the two things that I see is really important and I don't think we race enough now. So racing is really important and the long run. The problem is don't compromise the long run by racing too many Sundays. So it's a bit of a combination of. Now you do want to get that long run done because that forms the basis of your training. I would always start my week on a Sunday and I would run 35k Sunday morning, two and a half hours and then I would run another 8 to 10k. That night. So I got over 42k in one day. That was the intent. And I would be in the shower Sunday night thinking, right, oh, I've done 45k today, you know, that means I'm right now to get my 200ks for the week, you know, I've only got to do 155 divided by six. You know, it all worked for me. It was nice because I had that volume in the bank Sunday night and that was a beautiful way to start my week.

Do you think, Steve, looking back, there were periods where you overtrained yourself because you're talking numbers that are obscene to most people who are listening here. To run 200k a week, 250k a week, starting with 45k in the one day. Do you think they're looking back? It's easy in hindsight, I know, but were you happy with the way you progressed your training? Was it?

Yeah, I was really happy. I reckon, you know, maybe distance runners now train too hard because they do more intensity and they're trying to run 160, 180k, but they also do it with some really hard running, you know, the long, these new, you know, 30k runs where they run 20k of it at race pace. And I could never have done that. The one thing that I did whilst, whilst it sounds like that volume was high, Jerry, and I was, you know, I averaged probably 160k for about 10 years over the years and that was the basis of my training. Most of that running was long slow distance or LSD and 80 in I work out, I did, I think I did 6k on a Tuesday night in my fartlek or 7. We probably got closer to 7 in 20 minutes. And then Thursday I would do the, the 5k track session and Saturday morning 7k hill course. So 7, 613 and 5 18. So 182 out of my 200ks was just running at. Well for me it was jogging pace at 4:30. You know, I was racing at 3 minute K. So for me to run at 4:30s, that'd be like saying to someone, you know, you're a 5 minute K run leg or runner, so you should go out and do 80 or 90% of your training should be at seven and a half minute K's. They would never do that.

That is such good information because that is one of the things that we are really keen on. You don't have to be blocking yourself to actually improve. And the 8020 rule is almost what you've run your whole career implemented.

Yeah, Pretty much. And one thing, when I did run hard, so those sessions, whilst they're only. And that's what people say, God, you only ran hard for 20 minutes on a Tuesday and only 10 of it was hard, you know, the other 10 was meant to be jogging but I was floating. And Thursday, you know, you do 14 minutes and then Saturday the hill course is about 22 minutes. I go, that's not long enough. If you're doing 200ks, you are so tired from the mileage that you're doing these little, just little spurts of really quick running. And it teaches your body to be able to run fast off that tiredness. And that's, that's my training philosophy right there.

That's amazing that you can do all that long slow running yet get to the marathon and average 3,302pace for an entire marathon. That's quite incredible. The body can do that. So we wanted.

I was just super strong. So that's, that's the thing now I became bulletproof. You know, I was never injured and I never, you know, I'm injured every second day now. But I was never injured then and I never thought about being injured because I went so strong from that mileage. I felt like, I know it sounds weird, I'm a normal bloke, but I felt like I was a superhero, you know, I was invincible, untouchable. So when I turned up at the start line, I never worried about being able to run 3 minute K's. I was just going to run 3 minute K's and no one else was going to keep up. I was going to win the race because I was just going to run them off their legs because I was superhuman, they couldn't keep with me. So I had that confidence through my training that when I was on the start line I just backed myself in.

And to be fair, you were doing, as you said, a fair amount of racing. So you were getting that, you were getting that hard session in the race, that race like session. You were, you were race fit from racing and you were fit as a runner from the long slow distance you were doing plus the little bits of training in between. But that racing, as you said at the start, the very first question was, what are the key key sessions was the endurance run and the racing. And that would be right, wouldn't it?

It would be. What I want to differentiate and this is, I want to get this out there publicly. You've given me the chance to do it. When I talk about racing, a lot of the racing was club racing. Or state based racing. They weren't the ultimate races. So they weren't. I want to sort of prioritise racing. Racing was, was for me the best training session I ever did. And those races that were at a slightly lesser level, they were still great preparation. But don't lose sight of the fact that the big events, you know, the Commonwealth Games, the Olympic Games, the World Championships, the nationals, the Zatopex, you know, world cross country, they were a different race altogether. And the other races I used in preparation for those targeted races and I think that's what people get confused by, say, oh yeah, you know, I can't race every week. Well, you can race every week, but they're levels of races that you've got to delineate between. They're not the race we really want you to provide your result in. They're just a stepping stone to the ultimate race that we're focusing on.

Yeah, that's fantastic. And that leads to the next question. I'm sorry, Jordan, I'm asking all the questions here, but what did you think about cross country as a benefit to you as a marathon runner? I mean. Yeah, just give us your insight into, into what cross country meant to you.

Well, it's my bread and butter. It's my, was my first race. It's what I'm best at. If there was an Olympic cross country event, that's what I would have targeted. I'm not actually, I mean, I'm not a great track runner. I think my results would show that. Although I won a bronze medal at the com games in the 10k, but, you know, I don't like running on the track. I didn't even like doing track work, to be perfectly honest. But I loved racing cross country and if there was a 30k cross country event at the Olympics, I think that would probably be, you know, the, the Canyons would be pretty good at it too. But I reckon I'd be pretty good at it. And I loved, I love the. It breaks your rhythm and you know, you're running up hills and there's just, you know, I sort of find the course challenging. So, you know, I like trail running as well and I run in the forest a lot. You know, I find on the track it's so measured that, you know, you run, you just, you know, there's no challenge. All you're doing there is running against other people, which, you know, and against the clock, I suppose, but. And the same on the road. You know, everyone now, they don't run road courses that are interesting. You Know, you just want to run it fast, like Berlin and London, they've taken out the rocks area in the London Marathon, taking out the cobblestones because they just want to be flat and fast. So it's absolutely boring. You just want to run as fast as you possibly can, that's fine. But for me, I love the challenge of jumping over hills and dales and having to roll off, climbing hill and then over the top and hooting down the other side. And some of my best races would definitely be cross country races. My world cross country, the fourth and sixth world cross countries in Stavanger and Boston were probably my greatest performances. But because they're cross country, no one kind of, you don't get the public recognition of them. But I love my cross country and there's no doubt it also builds the quad strength through the hills that make you a better track and road runner anyway. So, you know, I think they're a really good complementary exercise to do or discipline to do if you want to run well on the track and on the road as well.

Yes. And there's some fantastic cross country races around the world world. Obviously the world titles. You know, cross country is a thing that you would have loved to have done every single year that it was available and, and that would probably be, I would imagine, equal to anything you've done in the Olympics and Commonwealth Games. You really wanted to do well in the cross country titles. That'd be right.

You know, I grew up just wanting to represent Australia at the world cross country. I didn't actually think I'd ever. Because I wasn't very good on the track. I actually didn't think I'd ever make a track team. And then, you know, I probably thought I'll probably end up running the marathon, you know, maybe at the Olympic Games or something. But I kind of didn't think that would be my focus. I thought that would be just sort of a bit of an afterthought. And cross country was really the world cross country was where I based myself. And I love it because you, you know, you got an Australian team and we all traveled together and it was, you know, a unique discipline. There wasn't other, it wasn't multi discipline. You just go the world cross country and every person there is a distance runner. So I love that some of my, if you talk to JP or talk to a few of our running mates, Paddy Carroll and Troopy and Geez, we had some great time on world cross country teams. They were just such great bonding experiences for us as well. And the running wasn't inconsequential, but there's certainly some great experiences had along the way. I can tell you a few more stories than I can about the race results, which I'm not sure it was a good thing or a bad thing, but I love my cross country.

So does representing your country mean a lot to you over the journey as an individual? It's a very personal sport, running, and you're really competing against your own self. Of course there's competitors in the race, but you're really challenging yourself. What does running for your country and representing your country mean to you?

Gerry? I could not understate how important it was. It is the only thing that dictated my running career. And, you know, I've been running. You know, people remind me now, I've been running, you know, I've been retired longer than I was. I was running for my country. And yet I say, you know, they say, how many marathons have you done? So I ran 22 marathons. And they say, oh, yeah, but what about that one last week? Or that one? No, no, they're just long runs. You know, I ran for my country. You know, those 22 marathons I ran, I think about 12 or 13 of them were, you know, at Commonwealth Games, world championships or Olympics at the highest level. And I tell you, when you put on that Australian singlet, you. You're running for a greater sense of purpose than yourself. And, you know, you probably know the story. You know, I'd often look down at my. At the brand on my singlet and say, well, you know, it's hurting now, but, you know, you're doing it for your country and you just keep going. So for me, the greatest thing I ever did, if I did nothing else, the one time I pulled on Australian singlet and ran at my best for my country, there is no greater, greater result than that.

That sense spine tingling down my body when I hear that. It's. It's such a great thing to hear how, you know, how dedicated you are to representing your nation and what it means to you. And that brings me to the next question, Steve, is, you know, if you can have that determination to run for your country, the mental side of when you're not running, when you're running for yourself, how important is that? Because you've just talked about how you're inspired by, by, you know, the crest of the Australian emblem and what it meant to you. How important do you think the mental side of preparation and preparedness as compared to the physical side, you know, oh, it's massive.

And you know, I got to such a high level that most of the athletes that I was competing against were all that good. It wasn't like I could line up and go, well, I know I'm going to win today because I'm better than all of these guys because we, we'd all got to the levels that we had. And you know, so you have to call in, you know, you have to call in the mental strategies that you're using. And I think one of the reasons that the Africans are so strong is because, you know, their desire to survive and you know, to get out of their environment, to be successful, to have this notoriety, you know, that pushes them. So that, that proves to me how important the mental side of it is, because they've got such a desire that, you know, I think they, you know, you can hear that they talk about that, you know, when they're on the start line, you know, they look along to western cultured athletes and go, well, we know we've got them covered because they're going to go home to a warm house, a safe family and all that, whereas we don't, you know, so they know that they've already got a head start on us because they're so much more determined for reasons that I've just mentioned. So that middle side, you know, you have to call in a lot of that stuff, but I think a lot of it's in the physical preparation of your training. And then the mental challenge is for you to then translate that physical training into performance. So many people I've trained with over many years, Gerry and Jordan, athletes, they're much better than me in sessions they can run and I think, wow, these guys are great. They're doing ladies, they're going so well. Then we turn up at a race, stand on the start line, we finish the race and I look back, I go to the race results and their names down the list and I go, what happened there? You know, they almost train better than they race, so there's something missing. So one of the strengths that I have had and I try to instill in people that I talk to and coach is that ability training is only training and it's only reflected in your race performance. So, you know, make sure you translate that into your race. And if you're not, then you need to just look at the train, tweak it, have different lead up or change your training to make sure that your racing is what's, what's counts. So many people, great trainers, and they never get the race results that they deserve. I feel bad for them. I think, oh, God, you're training so hard. Maybe they're over training or over complicating it or something because then they're so disappointed when they get to a race result and I kind of go to them, yeah, you should be be because you're training the house down. So I don't know why they're running badly, but one thing I had a great capacity to do was to make that jump from training and make sure that on race day, you know, I got the best out of myself. And the thing that I probably. Sorry, I meant you ramble off. One thing I'm kind of really proud of, now that I look back on, a lot of my records are still standing now. And that's because I went into the race not just wanting to win the race. I wanted to push myself as hard as I possibly could. And often I will have ran a race and won it. And if you look at the results, I actually then improve over the time. So I don't just. I don't stagnate or just be happy with the win. I go back and say, well, last year I did this, so this year when I run it, I want to improve that time. So, you know, I really pushed hard to get the best out of myself. Was like, became more of a personal challenge. It was almost like a personal time trial to see if I could run faster than myself, you know, my former self the year before. And that's the reason that some of the times that I've ran have been up. You know, I never ran the city to surf in whenever it was 92 or 93 and 91, and thought, Gee, my record is going to stand for 25 years. I just ran as hard as I possibly could and I'm proud that I crossed that finish line now at that day, you know, I never crossed the line. I see some races now and they're crossing the line and they're punching the air and, you know, going around in high fiving, I was smashed. I was on the ground, rolling around, picking myself up because I was absolutely spent. And I can tell you, when I did wear that Australian crest on my singlet, I tell you, no matter what my physical capability at the time, I ran myself out completely. When I crossed that finish line, there was absolutely nothing left. That's a fact.

And it's interesting watching. I just look at some of the videos of the form that you show during a race and I'm really intrigued to get your view on this is what you look like outside and what you feel like inside. And you were a bit of a master at this because I watched a lot of the years of racing when you and Deeks, and I can tell on body language how people are feeling. But you, I could never tell. You were running fantastic. And then two steps later you're dropping off, but you look still fine.

Yeah, it's interesting, you know, Troopy and I keep mentioning Lee Troopy. You know, he's. He's my best mate and he moved to Ballarat and we trained together and we've got a lot of similar traits. And I noticed a lot of time we would be running as hard as we could in training, but we'd still be able to talk. So I think aerobically, I was always really advanced and it was just a matter of training my legs to catch up with my breathing. So that was one of the advantages that, you know, I think in big races, you know, physically I could still look pretty good, but my legs were starting to fatigue and I was starting to battle, but I'd hide that pretty well. And it's amazing how much further up the field you can finish, Gerry, when you just say to yourself, oh, but just hang in, you know, till the next drink station or to the next K up the road. Then suddenly someone drops off and you think, well, they must have been hurting more than me. And you kind of. Before you know it, you know, you're up in the top view and you get through the race and you end up having a pretty good result. But I was still hurting on the inside, don't worry about that. And, you know, I think the way you train to become efficient is really important. I mean, I don't think Deke and myself were the greatest looking runners, but there's obviously no doubt that we were efficient over the ground. And, you know, I think it's efficiency in training. I still tell people now that I'll often be out running and I'll come up on a few people or a person and I'll scare the living daylights out of them because they don't hear me coming because I'm so light on my feet. And that's obviously, is quite important biomechanically, and I haven't been injured. And that ability to just run light on your feet, if it was really muddy and wet cross country, I used to be able to float over the ground pretty well. So I think having those light feet and thinking light, you know, for training tip, trying to be light on your feet is Quite an important thing. And then that efficiency that just training over years and years. I used to lope a lot and my son, now he's 20 and runs, he lopes. If you do enough mileage, you get rid of that Lopez because your body becomes efficient. And that's exactly what happened to me. So if you notice when I was 18, 19 to when I was 35, you could see my running action. I was a lot sort of more level across the ground. And that's that efficiency that I'm talking about.

That's a great point you make and I can bear witness to that. The 1990 Commonwealth Games Marathon in Auckland. I happened to be on a bike riding alongside your pack of leaders in Auckland. That day I was doing the triathlon and I got a first hand view of what it was like to ride beside guys running at 23km, 24km an hour and the silence of the feet. That was the one thing people said to me what was like, you know, riding beside the elite runners. I said I could not hear them, there was silent, but they were not hitting the ground. And it's so funny you just mentioned that. And the least time your foot spends in contact with the ground, obviously the more efficient you become. And that was the thing that struck me so much about how the elite runners differed from some really good quality everyday runners was just the sound that they were not making.

And it's interesting because that field we were from all around the world, Steve Jones, Douglas Wakahuri, Juma Kanga, all in that race. And yet we're all, we're all, you know, when you sort of meet together at that level, you're all so similar and we're all pretty quiet and you know, we're all, you have to be efficient or you can't run at that level over such a distance. Exactly.

So the next thing is probably a lot of the listeners who are intrigued about your preparation and your attention to detail and we're talking a little bit about, you know, what did you program coming into the Olympics or World Championships or Commonwealth Games look like three months out? What did it look like two weeks out as a taper? So just give us an example of what, how you're structuring three months out compared to what you did two weeks out.

Yeah, so as I mentioned, I was probably running 180 to 200ks most weeks. And that would be, you know, from that six months out to sort of the three months. And then most importantly, the crucial time for me was the Sunday run six weeks out. So I would always do a three hour run six weeks out. So wherever, you know. And it's difficult now. I have trouble getting people to do it six weeks out because they've got races and stuff on. But I have a belief that what you do today you get a benefit for in six weeks time. So that's the idea of the three hour run is to just, well mentally to know I can cover the distance because I probably ran about 42k in that time. But also to know that I'd had this really long run six weeks before that I was going to get the benefit from when I was on the start line six weeks later. So that was the most important run six weeks out, the Sunday run. And I would not do a session on the Saturday before that or and just probably either miss the Tuesday night session or just do it light just to make sure I absorb that long run. So you know, I'd still do another 5 or 6k that night. So I was probably doing about a 50k day roughly that, that day then. So that's six weeks out. And then I would probably factor in a race about a month out. So three weeks to a month out I'd have a race and that would be when I'd start to the freshen up phase. And you know, I'd run then so 200ks, then at, you know, drop back to about 160, 120. And then the week of the Olympic marathon I would do exactly half my mileage. So I'd do 100k and that would consist of a pretty simple man. On the Tuesday I would do half Bartley. So which for us I'm not even. I'm not even. We're not even. I'm a maths teacher. But I can't even get that right because our half at leaks actually two 90s, two 60s, two 30s and two 15, which is actually 30 minute fartley. So it's not half, but we call it half fartley just because it's sort of half of everything. So I do that on the Tuesday and then on the Thursday just 8400 instead of 8 400, do 82 hundreds with 100 float and just cruise that in about seven minutes and then just jog. Obviously the marathon was on the Sunday so I had the extra rest day. So I just jogged Friday, Saturday and then line up at the start line having done 100k, a couple of light sessions, a race, you know, three or four weeks out, probably a half marathon to make sure that I was in good distance. Running shape and there away we'd go. And most importantly I think, which is interesting, you know, when you ask me about my preparation, you know what hits me straight away Gerry is the other thing that people forget. Once I ran the marathon I took a six to eight week transition to get back going. I never raced until a couple of months after that marathon. So I knew leading in when I was on the start line I could absolutely waste myself because I was going to have two months of just jogging around to make sure I was completely recovered. I sometimes think people kind of get to the start line now and they go oh yeah. But then I've got this rice year, you know, if I don't run well here for me it was the end of the world. I was on the start line and I was going to give it everything as if I was never ever going to run again. And I liked that approach because for me it was all or nothing.

Did you do any BC races that we talked about earlier like some club events in that six week last period like you did the one hard proper run, half marathon for example. Did you do any like 8Ks or B or C level races in that period leading up to it?

Well, I would have, I think as I got older I did less of it. I was getting a bit more nervous and Chris and I would be worried, you know sometimes to be honest I would do my hill session on a Saturday morning then I'd go down instead of just doing my. Because I'd always work out. So if I'd done 192k lunchtime on a Saturday was obvious I was going to do 8K Saturday afternoon. So what I do is I just sometimes go down to ballot YCW's club race and I just jump in think oh well this is a bit of company to do my 8K. I'd get going and I was running just by the end of it I was probably running close to 3 minute K. So, so I unfortunately that was a tough day, you know and then I'd run 45k the next day so pretty tough weekend but I would just use that race as, just as a bit of a fill in for the day. So, so but then as I got older and better I was, we got a bit nervous about that and it was hard to just do a club race and get away with it because everybody was watching me and you know if I didn't run well, you know going to be bloody talking about how what's wrong with me and all that sort of stuff. So we Became a bit more planned and I would do more time trial. So I'd get someone on a bike. So I do an 8k, I'd often do an 8k time trial. I'd do a really good fartleg. So about. So that Tuesday, say the Olympic marathon was the following Sunday, the Tuesday, sort of about, what's that, 12 days before I would have a real crack. So I would do a fart leg where don't come and chain with me that day because I'm going to smash you. I'm not going to be nice. It's a really hard hit out. So that was for me, like I was just preparing mentally doing these signature sessions, but doing them really well. That gave me the mental strength to know all the confidence. I can relax now. It's done. Switch off. I've done my fartlek. It's geez, you know, I've smashed it. I've ran under 18 round Lake Wendouree or, you know, got almost to The Lakeview, which 7K, I know now, oh, I'm done, wrap myself up in cotton wool and just, you know, ease into the event. So I had my signature races and if it happened, Gerry, that a club race was one of those, you know, if they happen to be the run up Mount Buninyong and I'd use that before I'd go, okay, there it is. Yeah, that fits nicely into the program. Whilst it's only a club race, it's not to me, it's a signature race that I can use to build my confidence, to know I'm in good shape for the, for the big race coming.

Up and leading into those big races. What did you do outside of training physically and mentally to prepare yourself?

Not much. I didn't do too much physically, never did any weights or any cross training or any of that stuff. I just rested up and, you know, the one thing I did do was bit of mental imagery. So I, you know, I'd always know the course and in the days leading in, when we're at something like a London marathon, Berlin or Com Games or Olympics, I would always run the last parts of the course. So that was just mentally getting me ready. But also knowing that, you know, you want to know where the last part of the course goes. So you don't want to be sort of confused going, oh, we're about to go left or right here. Because if you're about to make a break, you want to make sure you've got the bits you can control under control. So I'd always run over the course, I was familiar with it and we, Chris and I, Chris Wardlow would often be with me and we talk about, okay, if you are, this is a chance. When we turn this corner, you're going to be out of eyesight. So this is where you go. So we talk about that. And then, you know, the nights, then I'd write some notes down and then I'd look at those before I go to sleep. And then overnight I'd just visualize how the race was going to unfold. So a lot of that mental rehearsal, because I couldn't do a lot of the physical stuff because I was freshening up. I'm starting to not do much training, so I wasn't tired. So I tried to move my focus across to occupying myself with more mental rehearsal and thinking about the race and all that sort of stuff, which was kind of the way I did it, just to prepare.

Leading in how important Steve, was your, obviously your, your understanding of the course is key to it. Your mental preparedness, your physical preparedness. What about planning the amount of time you would spend going to London or going to Berlin or going to Helsinki, wherever the major race was. Would you, would you do what we have a lot of people do, which is turn up a minute before the race? How would you plan that pre race strategy?

Oh, I always knew, you know, I'd use it. So if I had an opportunity, most regularly 12 months out I would go. You know, if I knew that the London Marathon was going to be the World cup course or something, I would run London the year before. So we'd always, I know we went to Atlanta. We flew into Atlanta straight from Gothenburg. So after the world championships In Gothenburg in 95, we flew to Atlanta. We spent a week in Atlanta just getting used to the humidity. It was bloody hot over there. And we ran over bits of the course. I had the next 12 months to. Even though I wasn't sure I was going to the Olympics, I assumed I probably was. And we had that 12 months to prepare because I'd been there exactly 12 months, months before the games were going to be on. So we did a lot of that preparation where we go to Avenues. And this was just for me personally, I was more focused on the things I could control. And that was the course, the venue, the temperature. I was less worried about the opposition. So I didn't spend a lot of time sort of looking over, oh God, you know, I'm ranked fifth in this race. You know, there's four people ahead of me. How am I ever going to beat them, do I? I never worried about that as much even, you know, definitely in marathons because it's a personal challenge just to finish the event. But even in other events, halves and cross country stuff, I worried less about the opposition, to be honest. I had a race strategy. It was go hard from the gun, and if someone sticks with me and they're there with 100 meters to go, they're probably going to out sprint me. End of story. That's as simple as it was. So I didn't complicate things. I just got in good shape, focused on my preparation, looked after things I could control my drinks, you know, my nutrition, my lead up, all of those things. Knowing the course back, back to front, get on the start line and then just race. And, you know, I felt like I could sort of get rid of all of that other stuff and just focus on all of my attention was getting my energy and my effort just to run as fast as I possibly could.

Would you spend time acclimatizing to the region? Would you go there three weeks out, two weeks out, a week out. Would that be important to you?

It was. I changed that because I did go to a place regularly. And, you know, I'm from Ballarat, which is pretty cold, obviously in the winter, and a lot of the competitions were in our winter, so I'd be going from cold to hot. So before Barcelona, my second Olympics where I ran, history will show I had a really bad result in Barcelona. And we actually went to a place called San Cagat, just over the hill from Barcelona, and we were there about three and a half weeks out. And I was acclimatizing. So I run with a full tracksuit on and get out in the middle of the day and really sweating up. And I chose to have no air conditioning in the. In the. I think we rented an apartment. I said no air conditioning in there because I wanted to sweat it out and really acclimatize. I got to that race and I was just so dehydrated that I just done the wrong thing. So I learned from that. So after Barcelona, I never went to a place leading in prior to the event. What I did was I used the heat chamber out here in Ballarat. So I went out to Ballarat Uni and I went in and I only rode on a stationary bike and I just pumped the temperature up to 35 degrees and 75% humidity or whatever it was going to be, and I trained, just rides on the spin bike. That was my morning run. Then the rest of my life I Would just treat normally and that really helped me to acclimatize. So just that exposure to it in the heat chamber. The rest of my life I was just recovering and treating as normal in Ballarat's winter and that really helped to just get my core temperature to be reduced when it was hot and humid. And then I had really good success, you know, in Athens in 97, Barcelona in 96 and Gothenburg in 95 in some really hot races. So that worked very well for me and that's what I would recommend to people. Some people don't listen, but that's what I would suggest.

Yeah, fantastic.

You know, if I was going to the Hawaiian Ironman, I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't spend lots of time in a really hot and humid environment. What I would do is I just have little amounts of exposure to it. So if you do go to Cairns to acclimatise for it, stay in an air conditioned hotel, go out, train hard in it, but then get back and recover in the air conditioned environment. And I find that's the best approach.

Well, that leads me to the next question. I suppose you've had so many successes over your journey and we all know about how successful you've been. There would obviously be low periods. And what's one example you can give us where you're most proud of where you kind of got challenged. And I don't mean it doesn't have to be a race. It can be a period of time where you're feeling challenged and you came through that period. And what were the things that, you know. Yeah, what would, what made you proud about that? Obviously looking back, there's a whole lot of stories you could pick. But.

Yeah, it's probably a couple, you know, I think Athens in 97, you know, leading off what we're talking about with the hot weather, you know, I think people probably assume that I was too old. You know, I was 35, about to turn 35 and I've been around for a long time. You know, I represented Australia at the Commonwealth Games in 86. So here I was 11 years later and I'd kind of, you know, I'd been about. But I'd start my results, you know, I was sort of, I'd won races, you know, in 94, couple of marathons and so 94 broken world records for half marathon in 92, 93, 94. So I was kind of pretty good. Everyone sort of thought, you know, that was my peak. So by 95, 96, you know, in Gothenburg, I think I was eighth in the Olympics, I was sixth or seventh. So I was kind of starting to wander back in the fields and people kind of go, oh, yeah, you know, he's been around too long. Athens, it's hot. You know, he's not going to be able to do well there. So that for me was a really significant event. And, you know, my career. I look back at my career and the highlight for us personally, and Chris Wardlaw would. Would agree with this, is that bronze medal at the World Championship. You know, I never won an Olympic medal, but the bronze medal at the World championship in athletics, that's like an Olympic bronze medal. So. So I was really happy for that performance, you know, and I dropped off in the race. I sort of dropped off the pack and I came through and, you know, I had to dig pretty deep and call on a few things. And there's a bit of history there because we started at the town of Marathon and finished at the old stadium in Athens. So it was a pretty significant event and for me to be able to run through the field. And in 87 at the World Championships in Rome, I was in the lead pack and it's only my second marathon and I thought I was going to win the world championships. And a couple of Africans ran away from me. Mitsala and Douglas Wakahuri and then board in, just got me just outside the stadium. He got me about 40k and then kicked away just outside the stadium and I finished fourth. Who would know that 10 years later I'm running on the roads into Athens. I was third and there was an Italian, Daniel Danilo Goffey was catching me. And everyone's kind of going, oh, God, it's going to happen again. You know, Italians going to pass me in the last few k. I said, no, it's not going to happen. And I remember running down into the old stadium and, you know, it was just a beautiful moment to be able to finish that race in third place and, you know, exactly a minute behind a couple of of Spaniards who were pretty good. Martin Fizz and Abel Anton. So it was just a great race. And I was. I remember, I've seen footage of the interview. I was just on cloud nine. I was gaga and saying some stupid things that you do when you've had a pretty good run.

Amazing, isn't it, that your biggest challenge turns into also your biggest kind of victory in your favourite moment.

Yeah. And it was personally very satisfying. And again, you know, people will say, oh, yeah, but, you know, you broke world records, you won Berlin Marathon, you won Commonwealth Games. And yet for me, that third placing was a really significant run. And you know when, again, when, you know, when you think you ran for your country. I did my country proud that day. And, you know, that's pretty satisfying. It's not often when you win, it's, you know, sometimes there's other factors coming to it. As you mentioned, Jordan, I have a.

Question that's a little bit left field and it's to do with motivation because I imagine this wouldn't have been an issue as much for you, but a lot of athletes do struggle with sustained motivation when the training programs can feel repetitive day in, day out, especially for long endurance sports. Yet you were doing very similar training programs, just long, a lot of long, slow running for decades on end. So what do you think about that?

It's a weird one, I think. It's a funny story. Julian Spencer, Moose, lives in Ballarat and owns a running store here and has been doing a bit of running with us over the last few years. And he said to me, he said, I was on a Tuesday night when you didn't do Fartlek, you know, what other sessions did you do? Anyway, we're sort of running along and bit of silence for 10 seconds, 20 seconds, 30 seconds, a minute. And I looked at him and I said, well, half fartlek if I was leading into a race, but otherwise I just did fartlek on a Tuesday night. I never did anything else. So it was completely boring. I ran long run Sunday, you know, a couple of runs and then a couple of runs every day. And I'd run my fartleg Tuesday, track work Thursday and hills on Saturday and lock it in. And if I was leading into a race, I'd reduce that a bit and freshen up, halve it. That was it. And, and I did that every week for 15 years. But what I did, I just knew that that was the training, that I enjoyed the running and, you know, having a pack and just enjoyed the company. And I still, you know, 4:30 of the night now, I just, I just don't, don't. I can't cook, I can't do anything because I've just. It's my running time. Even if I'm not running, it's my running time. And that just became my life. And for me, it was just lock it in. I loved the training. I backed it in because I knew that training, when I then turned up at an important race where I wanted to get a result, it was going to happen. So I really, my motivation was the big races that I had. And every three or four, I never went a few months without having a big race to focus on because that was the motivation to keep me going. And I can tell you right now, and I tell a story, if I said to you, you know, you're going to Tokyo in July, you jump out of bed tomorrow morning, I'll tell you, you. So it's, it's having the goal event and you know, I'm coaching now. I'm struggling to keep my group motivated because it's just, it's hard to lock in races now. You know, we're in lockdown here in Victoria and it's just difficult to just see, you know, to say, you know, I love being planned and say, right, what we're going to do, we're going to go to Great Ocean Road. And then I kind of go, well, I hope, I'm not actually sure whether we'll get there or not. And it's, I'm finding it really difficult just to. That, that uncertainty is making training difficult because you don't have that goal race to focus on and to work to. You know, I used to love, I'd be counting the days, you know, I'd get up in the morning and go, you know, it's only 76 days until the Olympic marathon or whatever. And that was really great motivation for me. So interesting. You have to be self motivated now. I was self motivated. You've heard a couple of stories about what I did. You know, you've got probably know the airport story of me, you know, running at the airport late at night, so I didn't miss a day. You know, I had all of these little, little tricks that I did. People, my family hates me because, you know, I say, I say I'm focused, they say I'm anal. I don't think that's a compliment. But you don't have to live with me. But, you know, I'm a very stubborn, focused person. So I had my own little tricks that made me, kept me focused and kept me motivated. We've all got those. You've got to just make sure that they are harnessed the right way so that they get you to this goal event that you want to produce a result at. And this is not just in running or in triathlon, this is in life in general. You know, you work out your attributes, you work out what you're strong at and then you put the physical components of that together along the way with this mental strength to know you've got the, this motivational desire to Achieve a result. And that's exactly what I did.

That's great because the story you've told of doing the same sessions repeatedly, you know, we try to over complicate things in, in the world today, I think, by trying to reinvent something that's too complicated. Whereas, you know, you've simply laid it out here that it's, it's endurance run, it's some intensity, it's some racing, and if you consistently do that, you are going to end up with a really good result. Would you say consistency is your greatest attribute?

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I might come up with different sessions and we can talk about doing K reps or doing some surging before or pace run before you do a few reps. At the end of the day, the outcome of the session is the same. So people say, oh, look, I mixed it up. I didn't do that. Said, I don't care as long as you did a session. Because ultimately it's not one session. It's the overall training over months. And if someone sends me a note or rings me and says, oh, wow, I just have to let you know, I did my best session ever last Tuesday. I worry because I'm thinking, well, why did you do your best session? Did you freshen up the day before? You know, you shouldn't be able to do a best session. It's just part of your training. I want you to run your best race. I don't want to know about your 10 best sessions. I want to know about your one best race. You know, I think people get fixated on, you know, we're all got our garments and strava and putting segments up, you know, segments, for God's sake, imagine. Imagine segments. Imagine I'm running the Olympic marathon and I get to the end of the race and they go, oh. And I go, wow. And I've got my hands in the air and everyone's going to. Why you got your hands in the air? Because you finished in 28 places. Yes, but I ran the fastest segment between 10.1 K and 10.2. You know, where's my gold medal? No, no, no. They don't give you a gold medal for that. Sorry.

I love that.

I think I find people get sort of fixated on, you know, their own. They'll celebrate something that they know they can achieve. You know, I never celebrated something I knew I could achieve. I celebrated something that I thought I couldn't achieve, that I achieved. It was a surprise, you know, it was better than I expected. So, you know, and that's what you get recognition and accolades for. You know, I didn't get gold medals at the start of the race. I got gold medals at the end of the race or a medal, you know, you get a medal for finishing, not for starting. So don't preempt what's going to happen. You know, do the things that you can control and then let other people, you know, bring those, those public accolades along. Because at the end of the day, you can only do the best that you personally can hope to achieve.

One of the, one of the questions we try to finish off with is.

Are you winding me up?

No, this is good winding you up. But before we do run out of time, this has been a couple of years like no other really. We're coming into the second year of, you know, of something that in our lifetime we haven't experienced. Our parents have probably in wars and things like that. But this is quite a different year. What are the lessons you've learned in the last 12 months that have, that have really made you sit back and go, wow, you know, I've learned something. It's something that we can pass on to our listeners that you've learned in the last 12 months.

Yeah, and I'll give you a couple, you know, I'm, I've realized what's important in life, you know, and I used to, you know, and I'm sure people go, this is probably not a nice thing to say, but, you know, I would someone, a radio station ring up and say, oh look, we'd love to have you in the studio, you know, tomorrow at 4 o'. Clock. And I'd go, you know, I'd drive from Ballarat to Melbourne in traffic an hour and a half. I'd sit in the studio for 15 minutes and give them some good listening time. Then they'd say, thanks. The next guest who come in, I'd get in the car and I'd drive home. Well, there's a day in my life and to be honest, you know, I might have given a little bit of value to the listeners, but I started to realize that's not very efficient use of my time. And so I'm starting to pick and choose a bit more on what's important and prioritise things in my life. That's the first thing I think I've learned and be more in control. And if I could, if I could pass on anything, it would be, be as answerable to other people, be answerable to yourself and take more control of your life. And that's been important for Me and the most important thing. And we've got four children. Tanya and I have got four children. I used to say, you know, I used to tell this joke about I had four children and Tanya had five, me being the fifth one because she looks after me. But people start to complicate that and they go, oh, so she was married before and she. No, no, no, no. It's not that hard. It's. I shouldn't have mentioned it. Just keep it simple. But last year we had the fortunate situation of having all of the kids back home and they'd kind of gone to uni and to Melbourne to different places, and all of them were back home. And one Emma brought her partner Richard, and we loved having them here and it was a very busy household, but gee, it was great. It was just fantastic. So families first and we say it, but I lived it last year and it really had special meaning to me. And so as I'm getting older in life, you know, you get back to those basic, I'm a simple man. And the simple things are take control of your own life and realize that the most important thing is your health. Your health and wellbeing and that of your family.

John, I was going to say that's amazing insight and I think that's the biggest thing I've learned from this podcast is how much value there is in keeping it simple. We can absolutely overcomplicate it and your entire career and your life philosophy is a testament to that. I think that's really cool.

Love what you do and keep it simple and you'll get a long way in life and you won't have the disappointments. I think that's key. You know, I'm very fortunate and you know, you guys have given me the chance to indulge and tell some stories and you know, I've taken opportunities, but I've been, I've had a great life and living a great life and you know, I'm a very, very basic person. It just goes to show if, you know, if you, if you stumble on what you're good at and you work very hard at realizing that ability, then you know, the world's your oyster. And that's been situation for me. And if I could pass that on to you guys and thank you for your time and allowing me to tell a few stories and hopefully give you some value to your listeners.

Just before we go. So your passion as a runner as a 14 year old, how is your passion now as a, as a 79 year old? Sorry.

I feel 79 it's hard because I still want to. You know, I'm very competitive and my passion's as good and as high as it ever has been. But unfortunately, my body's passion is not quite the same, so I'm actually trying to temper it a bit and not get carried away and just enjoy my running for being able to do it. I got to the stage where I was enjoying my running because I was successful at it and they're two different things. And so the lesson for me is, whilst my body's letting me down, just remember that it served me well. And for me to just get out and go for a run, you know, for me to run it, you know, still running at 3:30ks is still pretty good for a guy who's been through, put my body through what I put it through. So be grateful for just enjoying the life and using the passion that I have to enjoy my running rather than to be competitive. That's a tough challenge, but I'm trying.

Especially when you're so goal and orientated throughout your whole career and now you're. You're doing it for the love and passion that you just. And obviously your health would be one of the key things you want to maintain this, this, this routine that you've developed over, you know, 40 years of, of doing this sport.

Yeah, I used to, you know, I used to. I used to sort of eat and exercise for performance. Now I exercise for health and that's a completely different view. So, you know, and eating and nutrition, it's, you know, it's swung a lot. You know, I used to eat a lot, you know, sugar and chocolate and just carbohydrates, just cram it in because I was training so hard. Whereas now, you know, you're choosing to make decisions for your life and your longevity and again, you know, don't want to sound like I'm lecturing, but, you know, you eat for now, but you also eat for, you know, where you see yourself down the track. And if you live a life where you enjoy life but you also make some sensible decisions, then you're going to enjoy life for a lot longer. I think that's important to realise as well. It's management and I think we all, in management, it's management in business, it's management in relationships, it's management in sport that you just have to work with what you've got and manage it through a crisis, just like we're managing through a crisis at the moment. You also, you know, your body will have its ups and downs and you'll have crises, and you just go with those ebbs and flows, take the lessons you've learned along the way, put those into practice, and hopefully that'll allow you to get through that ebb and flow and come out the other end, as I'm sure we will post Covid, whenever that happens.

That's a great point, because, you know, during those periods where you were running for performance, you know, there would have been days in Ballarat where no one sees Steve Montaguetti going out there in the freezing cold, probably snowing and not missing a session. And. And, you know, all they see is you on race day, but they don't see that the hard work, the consistency you put in and all the elite runners put in. I'm not saying just the elite, but, you know, even the. The everyday athlete, runner or cyclist, you know, it's just not all about race day. It's about the journey, isn't it? And the process to get yourself to race day.

Yeah, well, without the journey, you don't get to the destination. So it is all about the journey. There's no doubt about that. And I think that's what makes a destination so much easier. If the destination's just around the corner and you go at your front gate and it's there, it's not a lot of satisfaction in getting there. Whereas if it's, you know, 300k's down the road, your destination, when you get there, you'll be bloody satisfied because there's, you know, there's all those trials and tribulations. You learn a lot about yourself when you're going on that journey. And the journey you make, you know, it makes the outcome when you arrive at your destination so much more satisfying.

This is why I loved getting to do these interviews, because all the lessons that you learn from sport and from elite, so sportsman like yourself apply to life, and it's incredible how well it translates. And when you learn to be disciplined in your sporting endeavors, it carries over to being disciplined in your health choices and your food choices. And like you said before, you know, stuff like keeping it simple not just applies to training principles, but it applies to life as well. And that's such a good translation.

Yeah. You know, and you have to. If you. If you're not leaving it, then, you know, I can talk about it. You know, I think you gathered I'm genuine. Not only have I lived it, but I'm also learning it and applying it daily to myself. So when I talk, it's not like I'm making it up or have to read out of some book. You know, I'm leaving it by example. And it's. It's. There's no more reinforcement than that.

We could talk to you for hours, Steve, and trust me, we had a big bank of questions.

Maybe you got through a few.

Yeah, yeah, maybe we can.

That works.

Hopefully get you on again at some point, ask you some more. Because we would just love to keep picking your brain about training and racing in your mindset. I think we could. Yeah. Literally ask you for hours. Your insights are invaluable. Some of the stories you've told already.

George, before we go, I just got to ask one more question. So, Steve, what event is your favorite race that you've ever run around the world? What race do you go? That is the best race I've ever done. Not in terms of performance, in terms of, like, I used to watch that race in the northern England where they ran through the bloody barn.

Yeah, well, that was one. The Cinque Malini would have to be up there. The one in northern Italy where we ran through people's backyards. And that was just such a special race. And, you know, seriously, they were in their kitchen when you're running through their back room and out through their farms. And. And the great thing about that was the. The Italians were. Were on the sidelines and they were just so loud. They were almost sort of. It was almost like the Tour de France. They were kind of closing in on you. And, you know, you probably know, you know, I was running against a few Italians, and I remember one day I was running against. And they kept yelling out, die, die, die. And I'm thinking, God, that's not very nice, but dies in Italian, dies go. So I kind of. I got it in the end, but. Well, it didn't sound very good at the time, but, yeah, that's a. That's a fantastic race. And I think it's still going. I think it might be one of the longest cross country races in the world. So. But races like that, and again, they have special significance because they're a different environment. They're just, you know, the memories of the different situations that you go through. Climbing over bridges, running through corridors outdoors, and it was just unbelievable. Past sheep, cows, goats, was an incredible race.

Fantastic.

Great. Well, thank you, Steve. Again, your stories, or ramblings, as you call them, but it's just gold information for us. You know, we just soak up every bit of it. And again, I do remember as a kid hearing that airport story and, you know, if you don't wanting to miss a day. And that kind of stuff's inspiring.

So it's been a pleasure. Thanks, Jerry. Appreciate it. Jordan, thanks for your questions and hopefully give some value out there and look forward to talking to you again sometime down the track. Keep up the good work. We're all in this together. It's a team effort. Cheers.

Absolutely. Thanks, Steve. Appreciate it.

Thanks, Jordan. See you, Jerry.

See you, Steve.