One Simple Mindset Trick That Changed Everything with Sarah Billings

This podcast is brought to you by Trivelo Coaching where we help triathletes and cyclists like you train smarter to race faster. I'm your host, Jordan Donnelly and on my left is former Australian Ironman champion and head coach of Trivalo Coaching, Jared Donnelly. Today we get to speak to Australian middle distance runner Sarah Billings. From an injury stricken few years with multiple stress fractures and missing years of competitive racing at her best, to an insane return to form, having just ran an Olympic qualifier last week, which was an insane 7 second PB and becoming the only the fifth Australian woman to ever run under 4 minutes for the 1500 with a time of 359. 59. This for me is one of the stories of the year and I can guarantee you're going to love the mindset behind this story and how she came to run the race of her life. So dad, before we get into it, what a story.

Yeah, it's a great example and I love the fact that we do interview a lot of elite athletes who are at the highest level, Olympic level and there are very similar stories. A lot of them have adversity, A lot of them have a lack of self belief. A lot of them have a lot of expectations from themselves and from people around them on the outside. And I think Sarah has learned amazing lessons from her eight year journey of massive lows and only minimal highs. And here she is now actually almost at the brink of being selected to represent Australia at the Paris olympics as a 1500 meter middle distance runner. And you know, I think there's a key, a lot of key things we can learn from this podcast and one is how important you believing in yourself and trusting the process and staying true on the path and journey that you know will work. Even though you have a lot of these roadblocks put in front of you. And I think that's a key and I think you're not putting expectations on yourself all the time, but just, just enjoy the sport you've chosen, enjoy the fact that you're and have great gratitude to that, that yeah, I am able to, to train now because I'm not injured, I'm not sick. There's nothing stopping me except for my will to, to want to do it. And I think that comes through loud and clear that she loves running first and now that she stopped putting expectations on herself and putting targets, the fact that she just loves training and being in the sport is actually now enabled her to have a consistent period with no injury and look at the results she's getting. She's actually done a qualifying time for Paris Olympics. Whether she gets there or not is another story. And that's actually another good point about, you know, she hasn't got expectations herself about whether she gets selected or not. And she does. It's a fantastic outcome. If she doesn't, then, you know, I still love running and I think that's the thing that we should get from this podcast.

Yeah, there's. There's all these cliches you have to say about adversity and, and resilience, et cetera. And she actually had to live them. And as you'll hear in this episode, she really explains how she had to get through it and live them and, and practice, you know, what everyone talks about and walk the walk through that. So you're going to hear all of that and more. It was just an awesome story to listen to and we hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. So here is the episode with Billings. A big welcome to Sarah Billings. Thank you very much for being on the podcast and thanks for joining us.

Thanks, Jordy. I'm excited to be here.

So the first question we like to ask is what was the training session on the calendar for today?

Well, Friday is actually my easier day, so I just have a gym session today. Yeah, I kind of alternate between a rest day slash gym or like just a 30 minute run. So you've got me on my relaxed day, which is nice.

I want to dive into the gym stuff in the episode. But in that case, take us through kind of a training week this week. So are you back in Melbourne?

Yeah, back in Melbourne. I landed Monday morning. We had an overnight flight from China, so I pretty much just got straight into a normal training week, pretty much. Did you want me to go through a normal training week or what I've done this week, I'd go through this week.

It'd be interesting to see what you do this week coming back from China.

Yeah, sure. So Monday I did a 45 minute run, just easy jog. It was pretty much straight off the plane. Well, I actually did a gym session straight off the plane because it was the only time my gym coach could fit me in that I could do as well. So I'm kind of paying for that now because I started a new gym program and straight off the plane probably wasn't a great idea to do that. That's all right. Yeah. So after gym I did a 45 minute run and then Tuesday I went down to the track, which I didn't think I'd have a session just Given like the travel and stuff. But yeah, it went pretty well. We did. I'm just trying to think what we actually did. Oh, we did a mile in 78. I don't know how much detail you want me to go.

This is awesome. It's exactly what we're going to hear.

Okay. Yeah. So we did a mile in 78, 200 jog and then five by 600 going through in I think 74, 75 through 400. So they were all between like 151, 153, and then all with 200 jog in between. So, yeah, it was pretty much all continuous and then had three minutes rest. And then my training partner Georgia and I, who are more than 800, 1500, did some speedier stuff. So we did 400 minute rest, 400 and then 3 minute rest, 400 minute rest, 300, 3 minute rest, 430 seconds rest, 200. And they were like 68, 62, 68, 46, 68, 28. So that was kind of detail.

Yeah, yeah. That's super speedy to try and finish up a session.

Yeah, yeah. And then I did. I didn't do gym that day because I did it the day before. And then I did a double five a jog, just super easy that night. And then Wednesday I did an hour run, just easy again. And then yesterday I did a threshold, which usually I just do 5 by 6 minutes threshold with a minute kind of float in between. And I did that at Albert park, like around the lake. An average 3 26s for. For the whole thing for that. Um, so my thresholds were like between three 22s and three 24s, I think. Um, and then, yeah, today just have gym. And then tomorrow we've got a big hill session. And then Sunday long run, which is 90 minutes.

Awesome. So the hill session tomorrow. We're always curious, how short are those heels? Are they 30 second kind of heels? Are they up to two or three minutes? What length is it?

So tomorrow they're about between 60 and 70 seconds. Yeah, yeah.

Awesome.

All right.

That's a good week and I love it. And it's such a track mindset that you can literally remember that every single rep. The fact that you could recount from Tuesday, 68, 62, 68, 46.

It's so good. The only reason I can do that is because we've got our podcast a bit later, so I had to write everything down. I wouldn't normally good at that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Good. And for those wondering, Sarah and Rose Davies have started A new podcast called Spiked Up. And so they talk about their everything to do with their training, their training group, and everything to do with the Melbourne Track Club. So if you want to hear more detail about that, you can go check them out. It's Spiked Up. That's the full name, right? Spiked Up.

Yeah.

Yeah. Awesome. So we basically want to tell the listener kind of what your journey has been like the last few years. Your running and injury journey has been pretty relentless the last few years. And it's not something that has been a couple of short injuries that take you out for a short period. And a lot of people have an injury and it might just be three months out of their year, which is super annoying. But for you, it's been multiple stress fractures that have kept you running at your best for the better part of two, three, four years. And if you really wanted to count it, six or seven years. So can you take the listeners through a bit of your injury history and what your story has been the last few years?

Yeah, so I probably had my first, like, real serious injury in year 12 when I was 17. So that kind of. It has been a long, like, it is kind of been something that I've always dealt with since I was young. And, you know, some people are just kind of more injury prone than others, which sucks. But it's just like, it's just sport, really. And. And yeah, that wasn't a bone injury. But the following year, 2016, when I went to world juniors, that was my first bone stress injury. And it was pretty strange because I was super low mileage mainly. I was pretty much training like a sprinter. So to get a bone stress injury was pretty strange. Little did I know it would be something that I'd have to deal with but for many years to come. But, yeah, I. So I had a stress in my shin then. And then I had a bit of time of. I think I had like 18 months of just a couple niggles here and there. And then I kind of. In 2018, I got a really, like, severe stress fracture in my sacrum. And that was probably my most serious injury to the day. And I was doing everything wrong. That injury was totally on me. I was. I spiked up my mileage. I definitely wasn't feeling enough. I wasn't in the gym enough. I was doing heaps of stuff outside of running. I just had a really full plate. And yeah, basically anything that adds up to a bone stress injury, I was doing. So. So that one was kind of inevitable. And then I kind of, at that time, I Had also changed training groups. Like the day. The day, like, I shook Nick's hand to join mtc, which is the training group I train with now. That was the day before I was getting an MRI for my back, so I hadn't actually started training with him yet. But it was not the best start to a new training group. Like, basically having to build from nothing because I think I had like 10 weeks off or something like that. So, yeah, that. That was a bit of an annoying start to a new environment. But I, yeah, gradually picked up my training after that. My back actually healed really well, which was good. That's something that has always been a good thing about my injuries. Everything has healed. So, like, a lot of people don't heal and it just takes ages for them to get it right. But I've been lucky in that, you know, they've told me eight weeks or whatever it is, and it's healed in that time, so that's been a positive. And then I had about 18 months again of. Of just like a niggle here and there. Nothing. That kind of kept me out for more than 10 days. And then in, I think it was July or June 2020, I got bursitis in my foot, which they also picked up a mild stressy in my metatarsal. But they told me, because it wasn't where my pain was coming from, just like, not to worry about it. And the time off for the bursitis would heal it anyway. And then so I took time off that got back into running and then a new pain kind of started and then got that scanned and then the stress, that little stress reaction had turned into a fracture in my foot, which they were like, you've literally been resting for four weeks. We don't know how this has happened. But, yeah, that was of the injury cycle. I. So I got that metatarsal stressy in the middle of 2020 and then kind of came back from that and then got a femoral neck stressy in February. And that was like, I took that so hard because I had done this massive, like, comeback. I snuck one race in, but I was literally. I was limping that day like, I shouldn't have ran, but I just wanted to get one race in because I was like, I haven't been coming back from this injury for six months just to miss a whole nother track season. But, yeah, so that took me out for the whole of that season, and then I came back from that. And then in June 2021, I got a stressy. My femoral shaft, which Literally popped out of nowhere. I only got it scanned just because of the history I had had. I just had a sore. A bit of a sore quad that felt tight and I just thought, oh, I'll get it scanned just to rule out the worst. And, yeah, it came back and I was like, oh, wasn't expecting that because it wasn't really that sore. But, yeah, and then after that, I was just so fed up and I knew that I had six months until the next track season, or even seven, so I was like, all right, I'm just going to take as long as I can. So, yeah, I think I had six weeks off for that because it wasn't too. It was a mild one. And then I took 13 weeks from the first day I ran to my first session. So I went very, very slowly. Like, I think I ran just for 30 minutes a couple times a week for a month.

Yeah.

And, yeah, I went really hard in the gym. And, yeah, touch wood. I haven't had anything since then. So it's been now two and a half years, I think nearly three of just like, obviously I've had needles here and there, but again, nothing that's kept me out for more than, I think two weeks. So it's been good.

Can you tell us what's different between the last two years and those previous six years? What have you done something significantly different? Or is it. Can you. Can you pinpoint any reason why all of a sudden you seem like you're less injury prone now than you were before? Is it. In our podcast we talk about. It's never just one thing, it's a whole combination of things. Is that how you feel about what's happened to your journey? Or is it. Can you pinpoint anything that you've done differently that's. That's saved you from being, you know, it's a horrible. A horrible journey you've been through and to now come out of that.

I think there's actually. There's been heaps of things that I changed. A huge one was the actual how slowly I progressed, my mileage and my training. I've really made an effort to do that really slowly. And so once. So, you know, it took me 13 weeks to get to a point where I could run 60 minutes and do a session, which usually people would probably get to that point in four to six weeks. And so I just took a really long time to get to that point. And then it took me like, I think it took another eight months before I was running 90 minutes. So I just did everything really, really slowly. And since that point, I've only increased my training by I think, 10 or 20 minutes of actual running a year, which. So I'm not increasing my load really. And I also cross train that. That's what I kind of use to fill in the gaps. I'm at a point now where I only cross train once or twice a week, whereas I was doing a lot more cross training two years ago. But it's, yeah, just been something I've gradually increased and I'm way better at handling my body. Like, I know when I'm pushing it too hard and I need to go easy one day or I need to cut a run short. Like me three years ago would never have cut a run short. Whereas now, you know, the day after I ran the Olympic qualifier, nick told me 90 minutes and I was like, there is no chance I can run 90 minutes today. So I just did 70. And yeah, three years ago I would not have done that. I would have been like, no, nick told me 90 minutes, I have to do 90 minutes. But you know, that last 20 minutes would have probably been where I started running a bit lopsided. Something would have got sore. So, yeah, just little things like that I've gotten a lot better at. And also the pace that I run my easy runs, I've really slowed down. So I don't have pace on my watch. I just look at overall time, which helps me heaps because it's kind of fun. It's like a little surprise at the end of the run. I try and guess what pace I did and sometimes I'm like, oh, I got moving today and it'll be really slow. Or, yeah, vice versa. So, yeah, that's also helped me heaps because I run purely to feel on my easy days, which I love doing. It also helps in like, it helps you to enjoy the run as well.

So, yeah, such great answers. When you say cross training, do you mean gym, work or other stuff?

Bike, spin, other stuff, yeah. So other stuff. So I kind of change up what cross training method I use just because it gets so boring. But I did a lot of bike when I was actually injured and coming back because it was in Covid and I only had access to a bike at home. But now I prefer elliptical or water running and I'll do the occasional swim.

But yeah, you've just sparked a memory of mine and I don't want to embarrass you here, but any bike training, I'm assuming you're still doing indoors. Do you want to explain to dad and listeners, what happened when you rode outdoors in Covid?

Yeah. So I was like, oh, I can't keep running, riding inside. So I was like, I'll get a road bike. I'll have a go. Like, I'll get on the roads. And, like, some of our training partners, like Jack Rayner and Brett Robinson, they were, like, really into riding as well, because they'd have a few injuries, too. And I got. I went out to. So I practiced in my backyard first with the. What are they called? Clippings.

Clip ins.

Yeah. And it was terrible. Like, I fell over every single time, and I was just so scarred. And then Jordy kind of helped me face my fears and took me down to Albert park. And he was like, it's easier if you're not stopping and starting the whole time. And so he helped me get in and, like, said, all right, off you go. And I did, like, I think I did 30 minutes or an hour or something, and I was going the same pace as what Brett runs his half marathon in. Like, I was going, and it was just. Everyone was passing me, and I got one more run, and I mean one more ride, and I just never went again. It was not good.

It's the ritual that everyone goes through with cleats where everyone falls off at one point. They get to the traffic lights, they forget which foot, they're unclear, but everyone falls on it. It's just a rite of passage. And it can be terrifying.

Yeah. It was so scary. And the most embarrassing part was I had bought. So I had, like, a raffa bib shorts that I use, like, when I train inside. But I was like, no, I need the. I've forgotten the name of them. The tops that you wear. Jerseys.

Just jerseys.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I had gone out and bought two jerseys from Map or map. And yeah. I was like, oh, I've spent all this money and I've got no clue what I'm. Anyway, I ended up returning them, so.

Yeah.

Well, we all. We always say, sarah, if you can't be good, you might as well look good. So at the end of the day, we've all done that. We've all purchased stuff that if we're going to choose a sport, you know, oh, well, we've got to get the equipment and.

Exactly.

And then all of a sudden, I don't want to do that sport, and I've bought everything for it.

Yeah. So I do want to go. Step back. And I remember going on two specific runs with you and. And your partner, Jordy, actually. And there Was one where you. I remember specifically you described. I think it was around that 20, 20 period or end that you would just felt like you were doing everything right with your body and the injuries. That step kept coming back. And I think the other run, you literally came with us for 500 meters and you just stopped and turned around and said, something doesn't feel right. I think that might have been the femoral head stress fracture. I can't remember specifically, but you were just so, so deflated. And I. You just. It was like, really hard to watch, Jordan. You know, I like, once you turn around, it's like, far out. Not again. It's probably one of the worst feelings in running to keep going through that. And I mean, did you ever feel like. When you said you were fed up, did you ever feel like giving up or what were the mental strategies that you had to use to get through those periods?

Yeah, I think the biggest, Like, I knew I was never going to give up just because of. I do love running so much and it's something that I always want to do, like, take away the competition and everything like that. Like, the actual love for it I knew would keep me in it, but it was more the trust that I lost in my body and myself that kind of got me down because I was like, you know, maybe a career in running just like in competitive running isn't for me. Maybe it's just not what my body can do. Maybe I wasn't made for it because I was doing everything right with those last couple of injuries and I just kept failing again and again. And so that was the hardest thing. I was like, I'm so strong in the gym, I'm doing all the little things, I'm eating right, my bone density is good. I just didn't understand why. Yeah, my body kept just like failing me, basically. And that was the hardest part because I was like, I started second guessing everything I was doing because I was like, well, nothing's working, so am I even doing the right things? So, yeah, that was the hardest part. But I don't think there was ever a moment that I was going to give up because I always wanted to get back to running, but there was doubts that I'd be able to compete at a high level again.

It sounds to me really clearly now when I've heard your story, that and for all those people out there who've been injured, who can almost feel the same pain that you've gone through, probably not to the extent you have, but it seems like you need to allow Your body to catch up with a continuous period of training without stressing it too much. And in your case, it's almost. You were talking 13, 18 months before, before you could actually feel like you could train properly again. And you know, going for a run is training, but when you say train properly, you mean do specific interval sets and race with, run with purpose. So your summary, would that be right, that you're. You just need to let your body catch up with the load before you can actually go to the next step?

Yeah, that's huge. I think you don't really realize how much stress you're putting on your body. And when you get injured in particular bone stress injury, like stress is in the name. You are like your body is tired and it's telling you that you need to slow down. And for a couple of injuries there. Sorry, my dog's barking really loud. Hopefully. Yeah, I think for a couple of injuries there, I just like smashed the cross training and. Which was just looking back so dumb because, like, my body was telling me that I needed a break and I ended up actually cross training. Like, I was doing more like energy exertion than I was when I was running because I cross trained multiple times a day and I just always felt like I was running, like, losing time. That's why I would just train so hard because I was like, I'm losing fitness, I'm losing the weeks that, you know, my competitors have on me. So, yeah, and that was a huge thing. In my last injury, I just really stepped back with the cross training. I did it to keep my mind, like, at ease, more just to. Because, you know, when you exercise so much, you need that for your mental health. So I was just doing it as I felt. And if I woke up one day and I was like, it's freezing, I'm not getting in the pool. I wouldn't get in the pool. I would just, yeah, not doing anything that day or do some stretching or something like that. And that really helped because it actually let my body chill out a bit.

So have you gained that trust back in your body and in your processes?

Definitely. I have so much more trust in my body now. I still like, it never really leaves you, though. Like even I think it was actually in January this year, I had another scan. I think I had probably three or four scans last year because just when anything pops up, I just kind of freak out because a lot of the injuries I had, particularly the last stress injury, the pain wasn't actually that high. So that's why I kind of get worried because if something doesn't feel that bad, I know it can be something bad. So, yeah, it's a bit of PTSD there and my sports doctor said that that's actually a thing when you've had pain in certain areas, your brain magnifies it and sends like, signals that there's danger there. So. Yeah, but I am getting better at knowing, you know, what's bad and what's not. And I also have so much more faith in myself that I will know when to step back. Um, like, I trust that I know my limits and things like that, which is really. That's good as well.

That's. Yeah. It's been quite a journey for you and from 2021, which is you didn't manage a race in that period to, you know, the next season, you started to race a little bit more and, and, and try and get some form back. And it's been a couple of years since then and this is probably the first summer season where you've had had almost a full racing calendar, is that correct?

Um, yeah, probably, I would say. Oh, last year. Last year was good. I raced throughout the whole year. Um, it was probably my first year of proper consistency. I did have ITB syndrome through pretty much all of Europe, but it was something that I could still run through and manage. So I think I missed. I actually only missed four days of it, but my training had to change for a few weeks. There was. But yeah, I was still and everything.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I don't want to skim over that period, but it does bring us to kind of this year and last week in Shanghai, China, and I just want to bring it back one block before that. So you were at an altitude camp with the group at Falls. Can you describe what the training load intensity was like there? Because you've come down and obviously in insane form. So what happened at at Falls before heading up to China?

Well, I think not actually much changed. I like, even straight after the race, Nick called me and he said, you know, I've been telling you for years that, that that run was in you, but it just took you to actually do it, to believe it. And yeah, I think that goes for, you know, the last two years. I think I've actually been in shape to run a lot quicker than I have been, but it just hasn't happened for heaps of different reasons. Mainly my mental approach to racing has really improved. I've been working with like a performance coach on that, which has probably been the main reason for the big Jump. People probably look at it on paper and are like, you know, what happened with their training? But my training stayed the same. Like, I've just been banking weeks and weeks on there. I was actually really stressed to go back to Falls Creek because it sometimes will put me in a bit of a bin just because at home, like I said, I jog really easy. I work as well. So I just. I take my easy days really easy at home. Whereas when I'm at Falls, cause I got a bit more energy, I'm running with the group, I can fall into the trap of going kind of hard every day. So I was pretty worried and conscious of that going into the camp. I was like, I don't want to get cooked because we went just before nationals. And so I really made a point of training easy up there. Unfortunately, I got tonsillitis right at the end of the camp. So that's why my performance at nationals was not the best, which was just climbing. But I think people would have looked at that performance and then looked at what I ran in China and were like, what? How did a week make a difference? But, yeah, I got back to 100% for that race in China.

So, yeah, such a great answer that it's always the case that it's nothing special, it's just what you've been doing consistently. But I'm really intrigued about performance coach side of things. What kind of. What kind of stuff have you been doing? If you can give us details about how. What is it and how's it helped.

Yeah, so his name's Brett Stevens. He works with. He used to play afl and he works with a lot of surfers, golfers, tennis players and a couple of runners. He's a good mate of my coach, Nick Bideau. That's how I got involved because, you know, Nick kind of saw the training that I was doing and the races weren't adding up. So he was like, it's just definitely up here in. In your brain. So that's why he put me in touch with Brett. And he's been so good. He. The main thing that he kind of encourages is to just to give your best effort. He, like, really simplifies competing and he just says, like, the main thing is to go out there and give your 100% effort on that day, and that is literally all you can do. And he's taught me how to really take it out the expectations, because that was a huge thing. I just put so much expectation on myself of the outcome. And it said so often, like, process thinking, not Outcome thinking. So it's a bit like, oh, whatever, everyone says that, but when you actually try and do it and successfully do it because a lot of people aren't successful in it, you compete so much better. And yeah, each race I've kind of learned so much, especially last year, that was a really big growth year for me because each race presented a different challenge, whether it was waking up with something sore or having to do. You know, I think I. One week I did four races in eight days or something and there's just always a different challenge. You might wake up a little bit under the weather on race day and I just faced a lot of adversity. So it kind of preps me for this year that whatever happened on race day, I could kind of deal with it. So, like at nationals when I did have tonsillitis and I felt absolutely shocking, I was still able to put a, a decent performance together just because of mentally how I approached it. And yeah, I still haven't fully nailed the no expectation thing until China. I because I'd never raced at a Diamond league, I got the call up on the Tuesday. Nick told me that I was in and that I was flying out Thursday. The race was Saturday, so I landed like 1:30 or 2am Friday morning the day before the race. And I was just so excited. Like I hadn't had this opportunity before and everyone else was like five or six seconds quicker than me in the field. So I knew that I didn't want to make a fool of myself, but I knew that I could just like no one was expecting anything of me, so I was just going to gain experience and run absolutely as hard as I could. Nick gave me a really simple race plan, so. And I felt great on the day. Everything kind of just fell into place and I had fun with it, which was probably the key. I was so excited to run, which is often something that's hard to be in that headspace, to be excited to be there. And I was just, yeah, so happy with it.

We always love those stories where performances come out seemingly out of the blue, but in your own journey, it's what you always wanted to achieve. But going into an event where no one else is expecting anything from you is almost the best way. And the example you gave of the Nationals, when you're sick, your expectation yourself changes to, well, I'm sick and I can't expect to race at my 100% best because I'm actually not feeling 100% best. And then you go to China and everybody in the field would understand that your level is seven seconds worse than the majority of the field. So no one expects you to do that. And so that mental approach that you talked about from the coach is taking away that expectation. Every time that's happened with all the athletes that we help is, is that you just do what you can on the day. And if you do that, you should be happy with it and take that expectation away and you'll perform better. Because as you described, you loved being in the event. You couldn't wait to race and you had no expectations. You had this freedom to race according to whatever Nick's plan was. And look at the result. You actually did a 7 second PB, which is an outstanding outcome. And that would be a lot to do with that expectation and that you've learned over the years. I'm really interested in what the plan simple strategy was, knowing that your level was so much at a lower level than the people you were racing against. Tell us about that plan strategy.

Yeah. So, yeah, bearing in mind. So they had the pacer was going at 202 through the 800, which is 353.3pace or something like that, which is insane.

So tell us your PB pr. Tell us what your PB is prior to this race.

So I. My best was 406. Everyone else was around that four flat and below. I think there may have been one 403 girl, but that's about it. And so Nick said to me, just get straight to the inside of lane one, hold on and try and pass as many people in the last lap. So that's, that's what I did. I went straight to the inside of lane one. I was kind of. I ran. I felt like I was in this little bubble. I was just focusing on what I was doing. I was running within myself, but not like, you know, not slow. I still had girls around me. I was way off the pack, but. But I was just sticking to my game plan. And I got to 800 in and I felt really good. And I thought, all right, the race starts now. I kind of started building momentum and then with 500 to go, I was like, well, I'm really feeling good here. And then when I was coming into a lap to go, there was pace lights at the Olympic qualifier. And I spotted them about maybe 20 meters ahead of me. And I said to myself, just get on those lights. At this stage, I still wasn't really focused on the girls around me or anything. And then so I got on those lights pretty quickly, stayed on them for a little bit. And then I started passing a couple people and then with 200 to go, I thought, oh, I can go past these lights. So I just went as hard as I could for the last 200. So I ended up passing a couple of people. And yeah, when I crossed the line, I actually ended up being in the second pack with my training partner, Georgia and a whole lot of Ethiopians. And I crossed the line and I was just so shocked that I was up there with those girls. I just, yeah, I couldn't believe that I'd finished like with yeah. Some of those amazing haylou and. Yeah, yeah. Just the caliber of athletes that I was crossing the line with was a lot of very shocking to me.

Yeah, I think your, your face when you cross the line, a picture tells a thousand words. Like I think you literally put your hands in your head or something. Your, your mouth is open with, with your result. And I've said it three or four times now, but a huge congratulations on the time to go from a PB of 406 to 359. 59. The fifth Australian woman ever to go under the four minute barrier. Just absolutely incredible. And to be honest, when you were talking before, I had like goosebumps when you were just talking about how excited you were for the race. Because when you were speaking about how you got through your injury, the key lesson there for you was you just love running and you just, you really want to be a competitive runner and to be able to go through that period and then get to a point where you get to go to China and be in a Diamond League race and then that you were so excited for the race and that you'd let go of a lot of expectation for a whole bunch of reasons, that it was a last minute thing, it was a great opportunity. The girls were potentially way ahead of you. So you didn't, no one was expecting anything of you. So to just be excited to race and then pull that off, it's just this culmination of everything coming together. How is that feeling when, when you saw the time, saw you'd gone under.

Four minutes after all these years, I, I cried. To be honest. Partners went sub four for the first time as well. And we were just like, I don't know if she was crying, but we were just holding each other and it was such a good moment and there was a moment before the race just thinking about how excited I was to be there and I, because I wanted to make sure that I soaked it in because, you know, you don't get opportunities like this that often the sport like careers are so short. And so I wanted to make sure that I actually soaked in that I was there. And when we were walking to the start line, like, I looked up into the crowd and just like took a second to be like, how good is this? And yeah, I was smiling on the start line. And yeah, it was just a great experience.

Gratitude. Gratitude is such an untapped concept, in my opinion. And if we, and we push this a lot in our podcast is we start, Jordan and I start off in generally every podcast saying, what are we grateful for? And you know, you've got the right approach. You're mentally in the positive, you're not in the negative. And you have every reason to be almost bitter and twisted. From 2016 to 2024, there hasn't been a lot of things go your way. And this is what's. So I'm almost emotional about seeing you get to that point and still be grateful and, and not think that, oh, I deserve this. You're thinking the opposite. You're thinking, how lucky am I? And. And you go ahead and perform like that. It is just one of the best stories. And we've had a lot of people on our podcast and this is right up there with, I just can't wait to see what your journey goes from, from here. And we want to dig into that a little bit now. And look, the unknown of not being selected yet because there's so many good competitive girls in Australia and you're one of them and where do you sit and how does that look now between now and the selection? I can't wait to hear what's happening with you now.

Yeah. So I have made a real effort to not really let this race change my approach to the year. I kind of came into this year thinking that the Olympics isn't the be all and end all. Obviously it's amazing if I made it. But, you know, you can still have such a great year without going to the Olympics. It's such a hard team to make. There's a World Champs next year. I'll hopefully still be running in four years time. So I didn't really have the Olympics as like the pinnacle kind of thing. And so I'm still going with that mentality now. Obviously, like, I'm a lot more of a chance now, which is really exciting. I didn't think I'd be this much of a chance, so that's cool. But I'm just trying to stay a bit in my own lane because I can't control what Other girls do. So yeah, I just want to keep enjoying it like I have been and making the most of the opportunities. I'm in two weeks going to Japan to race another 1500 there and then I'll go to London from there I got to pace a couple races and then at this stage I'm racing Stockholm Diamond League on the 2nd of June and then depending on how that goes, that will kind of impact what I do after that. And Then qualification closes 30 June and then we find out early July. So yeah, just kind of playing it by year at the moment. But yeah, Japan and Stockholm are my two. Two races coming up.

I was just going to summarize there. Look, I love the fact that you've still got that philosophy of my expectation is not primary in your focus and I love that you've learned that lesson not to expect anything and you will perform better when you get rid of that expectation and just concentrate on your everyday performance, your everyday training, your everyday what's next. And you've exemplified exactly what you've learned and I think that is, that's going to hold you in great stead for. And you're already thinking big picture. It's not all about the now. You know you want to be in this for the long term and you've actually proven you can do that because most people have been injured after three or four months would say probably that's it. But you've kept that going. So great answer. And I think this is going to be a really good period for you.

Now when it was, that was a huge lesson I learned as well when I was trying to qualify for the World Juniors in 2016 because you had to run a time to do that and I think come top two at Nationals and that was something that really was just such a stressful time in my life because I had, I think I had like two months to get at the time. And each race I'd be. I was running within 0.1 and 0.2 of the qualifier. I think I ran yeah between within point two of the qualifier five times and then I just couldn't get it because I had this number in my head. And then one race I, I ended up getting it. But it's just such a stressful time when you've got all this expectation on you trying to qualify. And looking back, as soon as the season ended and I did qualify, I was kind of like, I wish I just went into that with no expectation. It would have been a lot more enjoyable for me. So yeah, that's something I'll try and do this year.

I just love that mindset. What you're saying is just so spot on. And as age groupers and amateur athletes we can get so caught up in our half ironman, our a race for the year or you know, for these, these, these events we pick our half marathon for or a 10k for the year or something and we can get really impatient with them. And if you can look at the Olympics and say it's not the be all and end all, like I can go pick a picture, then we as age groupers can definitely take that lesson as well. So yeah, what you're saying is spot on. I just want to touch on the depth of, you know, Australian middle distance skills at the moment because one you spoke about in your race in Shanghai, you had good off Sagai Run 353rd fastest 1500 time ever to see one her and Kit Yegon running those times. And then also seeing all the girls around you running sub 4. We had Jess Hull and Linden Hall, Olympic finalists. They've run multiple times under four. We've got Abby Kolg, Commonwealth Games silver medalist. And then you and Georgia have just run under four together. Does our perception is seeing that actually gives you more belief about what's possible and you go, well those Girls are running 350 up to four minutes and I can do it too. Is that how it works in your head?

Yeah, I, I think that hasn't really been something I've thought about before the race in China, but on reflection of that race I was like, whoa, like if I can run 359, like who? Like that doesn't mean I can't, you know, go, go a lot quicker. So yeah, it has giving me those thoughts I think because I'd ran 406, like I was a little bit far off but now you feel like, you know, a lot is possible.

So Nick said that the data in the training racing wasn't adding up. What kind of data were you and him seeing in training? That kind of gave him that belief and I guess you yourself in the back of your mind knew you could do it as well, that you could actually run this quick.

Yeah. So Nick's coached a lot of 1500 runners in the past and female ones too. And so he knows what sort of training they were doing. His wife Sullivan, incredible, incredible athlete. And you know, she's ran 358. He knows what training she did. He coached Zoe Buckman who was a world champs finalist. She's ran 403. So he knows what it takes to run fast over the distance and he knew what training I was capable of so he knew I could run a lot quicker. But it just took a very long time for it to come out.

I'm interested a little bit in self belief too and when someone does actually have a breakthrough moment, how it, it changes your mindset about your own performances from that point on. Have you felt that and experienced that from, from the weekend?

Yeah, yeah, my self belief has. I was actually thinking about this the other day. It's something that, you know, my mum has always said to me before every race like, just believe in yourself. Like you can, you belong there. Especially this year. She's constantly said it to me before every race, like you should be there, just believe in yourself. And it's kind of something that it's a bit fake it till you make it. I think because I don't think I had any more self belief than I usually do before the race in China. I think it's something that you've just got to kind of trust the training that you've. You've done, like and just trust that it's gonna come out eventually. But I think now that I have ran it, I believe in myself so much more. So it's hard because it takes a really good run for that to happen and for a lot of people it takes a long time for that run to happen like it did for me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So kind of finishing yourself, what's you explain the racing schedule. Training wise, I'm guessing you're going to do much of the similar stuff, but do you change much of your training based on, you know, you're traveling to Japan, know you're traveling to Sweden. How's your training look over the next couple months?

I think it'll stay fairly similar until Japan and through those races in Scandinavia. I think we, when the qualification period ends, we'll have a training camp and things will probably ramp up a little bit. But yeah, Nick is very careful with me not to go too hard and he's always like, as soon as I say something's a little bit niggly, he's like, make sure it's nothing serious. He's really on me with all that kind of thing. So yeah, I don't think it will change too much what we, what we do. Maybe just a bit more track specific work. We haven't actually done a whole lot of really hard lactic sessions yet just because we have spent so much time at Falls Creek Yeah, like before I ran, I didn't 800 back in March and I ran a really big PB and I'd only done one, one lactic session. Um, so I think with a bit more, yeah, 800 meter work will be more race ready. I'd say so probably a bit more of that.

What's your theory on. You know, there's this argument in training methods of high volume versus lower volume and everyone responds differently, but you've been forced to stay lower volume, yet you can still produce these times you run a 2 flat 800 and now breaking 1500 with 4 flat. A lot of people would say that's not possible without, without massive mileage. So what are your thoughts on that kind of training argument?

Well, I think I'm actually like now what I do at the moment would be considered probably middle range. I'm not low mileage anymore. I run between, probably anywhere between 85 and 100k a week with a little bit of cross training. So, yeah, there's girls obviously doing 160k a week and there's doing 60. So I would say I'm in that middle zone. But it's. Yeah, like you said, everyone's so different. I think you can, you can do it so many ways. But I think for me that middle range is definitely what works best. I need to feel really aerobically fit to run the 1500. I can't go into 1500s having done more 800 specific work, which does sound a bit strange because I've come from that speedier sprint background. But just being as aerobically fit as I can be gives me so much confidence because I'm much more confident in my speed. So I know that that doesn't won't leave me. Even though a lot of people say you lose your speed when you do more mileage, but I think that's a total myth. That's something that I'll always say is wrong. I think your speed never leaves you. So, yeah, I hope that answers that question.

Do you think that running your easier runs the correct way now has had a good impact on allowing you to bring the speed when you need it? Because if we look at a lot of the athletes over the journey, they tend to generally run the easy runs a lot harder. So by the time they get to the day where they're trying to run quite good training sessions, they're still quite tired from running too many runs at the same intensity. Do you think that's been a key factor in allowing you to actually run faster?

Huge. So I always find, and I always say this, the faster I go in a session and the more lactic I go, the slower I have to jog the next day. And because I do run, feel that's something that just naturally happens. Like if I've had a real lactic, hard speed session, I'll be crawling the next day. So that's just a natural thing that happens for me. So, yeah, I really like that combo. The slower you jog, the faster you can go in training for sure.

So I wanted to finish the episode by asking you kind of to give us some key lessons about your injury and your journey, but you really did that throughout the episode so well. And I guess we flogged this message so much on the podcast. We just love a story of resilience and persistence and the cliches that, you know, you learn so much from injury and you come out a stronger person and be process oriented and not outcome oriented. But as you said, it's so much harder in practice. But I guess I've no doubt you ran so well last week because of so much of the mindset stuff you've done and the way you went into the race and the way you just went in to enjoy it would have been a huge reason. Plus all the training, obviously, that you ran so well. So I guess what is your takeaway at the moment in your journey and your story that you'd like to, I guess, pass on?

I think a huge one is to just have fun with it and enjoy it because, you know, often the low, there are a lot more lows than highs. So you may as well just enjoy the process and, and the journey and, you know, don't take yourself so seriously. At the end of the day, we're just all running around an athletics track or, you know, on road and, you know, it's not all that serious, so you may as well just enjoy it.

I love it.

Anything last from you, dad?

No, I just love the whole story. And I think that every athlete that I've ever come across in the last 40 years of helping people, the people who love what they do, are the most successful. I don't mean in terms of firsts or seconds or podiums. I mean that they've continued in their, in their chosen sport with just a passion of doesn't matter what happens to me. I just love doing this. And, and that's the message I'm hearing from you. And that'll hold you in great stead because you can continue to do this the more you enjoy it. And as we know in life, if you enjoy the job you do at work, you'll probably be really good at it. But if you hate your job, you'll probably find that you don't succeed very much in that. But as a runner or a cyclist or a swimmer or a triathlete, people who love doing that, eventually they'll shine because it's the passion and love they have for the sport that will enable them to do that. Do you think that's the philosophy you've almost got now?

Definitely, yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. And it's the same with a lot of my training partners, too. We. We often have the convo of, you know, will you guys keep running when you finish? And there's obviously a couple that say, no way. Like, I'll be playing golf. But there's. Most of us are like, no, we'll run for the rest of our lives. Which. Yeah. Which is such a key thing to the success.

Yeah, that's a great way to finish. Thank you so much, Sarah, for coming on, and thank you so much for sharing your journey and good luck for the rest of the year.

Thank you. And thank you so much for having me on.

That's it from us, as always. We'll see you in the next episode.

You want I can get you back.