The Insane Rise of 70.3 World Champ Tom Page

This podcast is brought to you by Trivalo Coaching, where we help triathletes and cyclists like you train smarter to race faster. I'm your host, Jordan Donnelly, and on my left is former Australian Ironman champion and head coach of Trivalo Coaching, Jared Donnelly. A very exciting episode today, a long awaited episode for a lot of fans of this podcast. We finally have Tom Page on the episode who is just newly crowned age group world champion. And one of the coolest parts about triathlon is that when you go to the age group world champs, you get to compete in your own age group and become a world champion and get that title for your age group. But we don't want to be misleading and say you became the 70.3 world champion as the title would suggest. But it's a very, very exciting week and we're so excited for this episode. And Tom, you're as humble and as modest as an athlete can get. And so we're going to break everything down in this episode about your journey and how you reach the pinnacle of your career. So far. It's been insanely cool to watch and be a part of, but I want to start off by saying a huge congratulations on becoming age group world champion. How are you feeling this week?

Yeah, thanks very much, Jordy, and thanks for the chance to come on the podcast. I've listened to many episodes, so it's nice to be on the other end of it today. Yeah, you know, feeling really, really pleased. And yeah, it was funny. Thanks to Jode. Straight after the race, it was almost a bit of relief, to be honest. It was obviously a big build up since I qualified as Sunshine Coast 2023. So it would have been sort of a long, long term target. And yeah, I was really relieved and felt very fortunate to have had a good race after having a really clean and pretty uninterrupted prep throughout the whole lead up. So I was, I was really psyched.

It's, it's a classic Tom. For all those listening, he's already sugarcoating he didn't have a perfect lead up to, for all those who don't know, he had gastro and couldn't train for, for four or five days. And to Tom's credit, he's never mentioned it to anybody and, and it's just carried on and that's the sort of personality you're dealing with here. So I can't wait to hear. And I'll have to keep chiming into to set the record straight. I think in this whole podcast as we go Because Tom will be understating things and, and I'll put, I'll, I'll put my spin on it. So I can't wait to have this discussion and. Yeah, so good start, Tom.

And so we'll go into the World Champs recap very soon because that's what everyone wants to hear. And I did mention that you're kind of a little bit of a celebrity among the age group world. And I think that's because as much as we want to look at the pros and see what they're doing and try and copy them, we know that a lot of the time, especially with our last episode with Matt Hanson, what they're doing is actually a little bit unrealistic or not suitable for age groupers. But I think tomorrow, you know, everyone is looking at your training very much so we get a lot of people both in travel and outside who are really stalking your Strava, trying to figure out what you're doing and the training you're doing because it's relatable. And they're looking to you as a bit of a role model as an athlete, which is really awesome. And one of my favorite parts of the World Champs over the weekend was how many athletes we had messaging us and telling us and saying either before the race. Cannot wait to watch Tom and Roland go because you guys have these great head to head battles over the last few years in the Australian 70.3s and everyone just so excited to see how you'd perform. And that's a bit of pressure for you going into an age group World Champs. But I really want to reiterate that it's just so cool that you have that. You're just a good example for people to try and follow and really emulate that journey. So look, we'll go into the World Champs recap very soon. That's what everyone wants to hear about. But I want to go back to the start of the journey a little. And you've been with Travelo for just over three years now and we call the three year mark the magic number here at Trivella. It's where, you know, all the magic starts to really happen as you get into the program. And just so happens that, you know, almost three and a half years in, you've become age group world champ. So give us a little bit of your background about the start of your journey. And dad chime in at any time with any observations like you did early on. But you came from a very strong rowing background. You were very fit already. You had an FTP coming into the program with mid-300, I think or up to almost 400. Very, very strong. You're a 36 and a half minute 10K PB runner. How would you describe yourself as a triathlete when you kind of started the journey with us at Trivelo?

Yeah, I guess ironically didn't, didn't hear too many swing numbers there Jordy, which is. But yeah, I think I was, I was lucky to grow up doing a lot of different sports throughout school. Was always really into my sport and kept keeping as good as I could and trying everything that was available to me. I was lucky to be at a school that was very encouraging and supportive of pursuing different sports and I sort of just carried that through into university. So I was starting up in Melbourne after finishing school down in too long and a few opportunity came up along the way with my rowing in year 12 you mentioned. Yes, had a bit of a rowing background so a few doors opened there and I'd always play footy in the winter and rode in the summer and not too much really came of footy but I was, you know, all in for fully in winter that was sort of what I was into. And then come summer I was sort of on the ergo and out on the water riding. So I continued rowing at Melbourne Uni Boat Club following yeah following finishing school and was, you know, training as, you know, as much as I'm training now for rowing for a few years then. So I was very lucky to come into I guess triathlon having had some pretty significant training weeks behind me, albeit in a different sport. But I think that sort of, you know, aerobic development and things like that and build, building a lot of strength, you know, quite a power sort of strength sport, rowing events being at 6 to 7 minute mark more or less still very aerobic but a lot of strength as well in there. So I think that sort of laid a really good foundation for coming into a new sport, particularly with different disciplines and a lot of things could carry over very well to that and some things were a little bit of a hindrance in different areas. Things like my mobility has always been a little bit of a limitation for me and that's something I've been working on particularly on the swimming side of things. So yeah, without that sort of swim background the, the technical side of that has been a big work in progress for me and something I'm continuing to work out. But I think the things that I really took from the rowing background were the work ethic, discipline, you know, Ability to tolerate a reasonable training volume. But on top of that, and I think it may be even more importantly, having been involved in competitive sport, a reasonable, not nothing international, but at a reasonable level domestically and rowing and with a lot of competition, sort of, you know, weekend regattas all through summer. I think sort of the mental side of things, managing like competition and training, stress, racing stress, traveling to races and things always, you know, maybe not going as planned. One of my, my coach is Matt Ryan, who taught me a lot about rowing, but a lot about managing psychological things as well and, you know, anticipating everything to go wrong, but being ready to jump in the boat and rock up any time of day, any place, any conditions, regardless of what was happening around me, I think that those takeaways have carried over really well for me to be able to embrace a new sport and the new challenges, along with learning three new sports, I think coupled with, you know, working closely with Jared and early on with Nick Lecandro, I'm sure chat about a bit more, that sort of combination sort of navigated me to hit the ground running pretty well. And so, yeah, despite, I guess, only being in the sport of triathlon for maybe three years, I feel like I've been able to carry some of those burns through pretty smoothly, which I think helped me out, helped my progress pretty quickly.

I think it's a great answer straight off the bat. And I really agree with you, Tom. The discipline and you know, we talk about a lot on the podcast about how people who've come through a swimming squad history, they know how to train. They train morning and night and they have this ability. You know, imagine training 3, 4, 5K in the morning, then repeating it. You know, some of them are swimming 6, 7K at night and, you know, you're not really communicating much. You might be stopping at the end of the pool and having a breather. Then you're going and all you're doing is looking at the black line the whole way. So that, that discipline of turning up to train, you got that from rowing. So coming across to triathlon, I was amazed how seamlessly you slotted into the triathlon program. It was because of your rowing structure that you were so used to. And the triathlon structure became, you know, just a different sport, but you were doing pretty similar things. And I think that mindset you mentioned about being traveling to races, competing all the time, these are the things that we are really battling with. As you know, Tom, with a lot of the, the people that we coach, they've got this fear of testing or fear of competition or fear of racing. And the anxiety they build up with that is. Is partly because they don't do it much. And, and you always amaze me with your calmness before most of the bigger races that you're going to. And I take this year for as an example, and you and I know the conversations we have before your races. I'm always trying to downplay the actual goal, I suppose, of the expectation of the outcome. I'm trying to take that away from you so you can concentrate on actually performing. And when you win, you know, four 70.3s in a row, that could be a huge weight to be carried by anybody. And yet you don't. Have you come across to me when I'm talking to you as, yeah, yep, I'm okay. I'm concentrating on the things that you and I have discussed. I'm talking about how I'm going to swim. We're talking about how you're going to pedal on the bike and we're talking about the pace you're going to run and you're not worried about the end result. And you know, I've said to you many times, if you do those things well, Tom, the result will be whatever it is. And at the end of the day, you have to be happy with that, don't you? Whether it's first or fifth, if you've actually executed well, then you can't do any more than that. And I think that your answer is just so spot on. And that's the thing I've really admired about the way you've gone about it, is those things you've learned from other sports, you've carried across really well to triathlon and you've got a few challenges ahead of yourself. But I'm so pleased that you've mentioned those things because they're the things that the age group should be thinking about as well. When they have hardly any weight of expectation of winning on them. Their expectation is from their own personal pressure that they're applying. And I think for the listeners, they need to take a leaf out of how Tom goes about it. Because if you imagine that every time you go to race, people expect you to win and they'll be asking you what happened if you don't. And that's something that Tom's done very well. I think. So, yeah. Real credit to you, mate.

Yeah, no, thank you, Jared. And yeah, I think that message of just trying to extract everything you can out of yourself and execute your own plan as well as you can has been one Of a better term, like drilled into me very, very well and very effectively from sort of as soon as I started with Trivelo. And that's always been at the forefront of my mind, as you said, you know, whether I finish first, second, 14th, if I was, you know, across the line and I was happy with how I'd executed my race and my efforts and that I'd, you know, really emptied the tank and given everything I could, I'd always gone into the mindset that I'd be, you know, completely satisfied with that. And, you know, in hindsight, after a race, if results haven't gone your way, you always ruminate a bit on things you could have improved on. But as long as I've done everything I could, you know, at the time and feel like I've given it my best, I've always tried to have that at the front of mind and particularly during races, just, I guess the nature, the way my races tend to play out, being a weaker swimmer, I've always just had to focus on my own race and my own numbers and executing my own race plan as well as I can. And I think that that message is, yeah, kept me a little bit, I guess, level headed and calm when there might be some sort of external expectations and things. But I heard a good quote this week that pressure is what you're putting your tyres and you can just focus on, don't have to worry about that and just, just worry about what you can control.

Absolutely brilliant. And we'll dive into that a little bit more in the actual recap. But I do want to bring it back to kind of your training journey and improvements and I want to get both your answers on this and where you think you're at and what do you think of the big differences in where you're at now? What did you think you really had to work on, training wise, over the last few years and what made the biggest changes? And then, Dad, I want to get your thoughts as well as observing Tom as an athlete and what you guys worked on. So, yeah, Tom, go ahead.

Yeah, so I guess I had a good training background in terms of being able to do hard sessions to train. Always got a lot of satisfaction out of getting the work done and putting the hours into that sort of thing. But I think as soon as I started working with Nicandro, I, he was very, very clear in highlighting the purpose of sessions, particularly, you know, whether it be a recovery session, an interval session. So I guess learning the train with intent and with a purpose in each session was A lot more valuable than just slogging away miles after miles. So I think Nick very kindly and generously jumped on board when he sort of saw my Strava that I just started running and cycling a little bit willy nilly, just doing whatever, whatever I felt like, whatever I sort of had the time for and probably doing, you know, just some long hard rides in sort of a bit of a gray zone just for the fun of it. So I liked, you know, going fast and going far as much as I could. And this is before I'd started triathlon. He sort of jumped on board and said, hey, I know, I know a good group called Trivelo and Jared Donnelly and they might be able to set you up with a little bit more structure and purpose for your session. So you're actually getting a bit more out of yourself if you want to. Want to give Trifon a go. So I think that, yeah, that was probably been the biggest thing to me is having a clear plan and idea of what each session is targeted to do and how that is working towards your end goal, be it like your A race or, you know, a B race along the way. That's something that I've definitely got a greater appreciation for and I'm still learning a lot. Like I'm still, you know, even, even this year I think I've, you know, maybe eased back on some of my aerobic rides. Just be happy to ride those at a bit lower power because I know I've got an interval session the next day. So, you know, looking at that big picture of the training block and the purpose of each session within that, I think is something that's really stuck out in that transition, I guess. Jordy? Yeah.

Yeah. A huge thank you to Nick for bringing you on board. If you don't know Nick Lecandro, he's, yeah, he's now one of our coaches here at Tribala coaching. And yeah, he definitely saw some talent in you and said that to dad and said, you know, I think you could really help this, this guy. And, and yeah, you were all in. So, dad, you know, your kind of impressions on Tom and what you thought he needed to work on over these years and your kind of plan with him because you, you definitely, you know, you guys had some great conversations early on about thinking long term and really trying to set yourself up long term, not trying to take quick fixes anywhere.

Yeah, it was great. Nick identified a talent and that, that's the first thing. And I think Nick was your footy coach, Tom. Was he?

Yeah. Yeah, Nick had a little, he's from Ballarat, as many would know, but he had a little stint down in Geelong for a year or so. I was actually living with one of my best mates for, for a few months and ended up approaching us in the under 16s. Geelong Ammo's footy team. And I went on to take a few screamers and get on a few backpacks himself in a Premiership side of the room as well. So he said, any footballer before he was pushing the pedals like he is.

Yeah. For those international listeners, footy we call in Australia is Australian Rules Football. So. So, yeah, it's, it's a quite a different sport for any other sport that happens around the world. But yeah, Nick himself is an unbelievably talented cyclist and, you know, national time trial champion, you know, stage winner at Tour of Bright, some of the big, big events. Amy's Gran Fondo, you know, went to the world gravel titles in the U.S. yeah. So really a really good athlete himself and an unbelievably successful coach with the Trivelo group. But he identified you early and it was really him introducing you and I together. And I think early days we looked at the things that you were strong at and you were super powerful on the bike. And from the rowing background, for anybody who knows, you really have to have an engine to be a rower. And some of the best bike riders come from rowing, which is quite amazing. I'm not too sure how many triathletes come from rowing, but some of the really good bike riders come from rowing background. And so that's a really good head start in the sport. And you already a good, powerful rider, but obviously where to put the power was important. And now some of the things that I think we really drilled into you is about how to execute the power on different courses and different wins and something we talk about on the podcast the whole time. And it's the same message to every athlete. It just takes some athletes longer to grasp it than others and some don't even want to grasp it. And you can't really change much, but you can get fitter as a bike rider, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get faster. And doing the right training program is also important, but it doesn't mean that you're going to get faster if you don't apply how to ride the time trial bike. And that's something that you are really good at. You are an unbelievably good listener and you will put into practice any tips that you're getting. And, you know, I'll be saying to you, you know, you, you're riding the tailwind too quick, Tom. You know, I know it's Fun to ride 55ks an hour in a tailwind, but, you know, you turned around in the headwind and now you're riding lower power. You know you will be faster if you do that the other way around. And, you know, the next session you've nailed it. And they're the, they're the things that I loved about coaching you on this journey. And right at the start, I think I said to you, you know, you're pretty green at this. There's a lot of guys who've been doing a long time, even at your age, at that young age, has been guys who've been doing it as juniors. And so, you know, you've got a little bit to learn. Obviously, the swimming was. You're going to be something that's going to be hard when you're. I don't know what you started off at, Tom, was at 155 per. 100. Tell me. Yeah, remember, I'm not sure.

It must have been. Yeah, definitely, definitely over 140 pace.

Yep.

We're talking 145 or something.

Yep. And to see where you are now, you know, you swam127, I think, at the weekend, so it's a huge improvement. Even though, you know there's still guys way ahead of you, you've got a lot of that journey still to go. We're only, we're only at the beginning of your journey. We'll talk about what you're going to do next later. But, but certainly understanding the things about swimming and then riding. But you're running as well, and I remember having a discussion with you in your nice, polite way, you would say to me, are we ever going to do any hard running training? And I'd say, well, yes, but you haven't been running for 15 years. As a guy who can cope with load and I don't want to injure you, Tom. And we're getting enough intensity from your bike and you have to trust me, mate. And you did, you said, yep, okay, whatever you tell me, I'm on board with. And the good thing is you've never been injured in that whole time and now you're able to cope with fartlek, with intervals, with heel reps, something you couldn't do at the start. And you were on board with that. You trusted the process. And I think that's one of the Best things about coaching someone like you is because you are on board with as long as you understand the reason why we're giving you this type of program because now you're able to do know 8x1k reps and, and you know, hard intervals. But, but now you can cope and, and you've still got a long way to go in your running improvement. I mean, you know, a lot of the races you were, you know, as Jordan said, you're a 36 minute 10K and now you've just nudged past Jordan's PB which he's very disappointed about. But you know, you're a low 30s 10k runner and you know there's still more improvement to come. But, but you know that's without even running hard intervals and 400 track work sessions. You know you've improved your running without doing any of that because you've got it across the board of the program we're giving you. And the thing that you were on board most with was that it's a long journey and if you just stick at it, results are important to everybody because we're all competitive and we wouldn't be doing it if we weren't. So we can't dismiss that. But, but you have to be patient just like you are in a race. You just can't because you're motivated and excited. You just can't swim flat out, ride flat out and run flat out. You're going to end up with a disappointing outcome. You've got to be patient in a race, you've got to be patient in your journey as an athlete. And this is the thing that sticks out in my mind and for those who don't know, you've been, you know, you've just, you've been doing a degree as a doctor and four. That is the longest studying journey of anybody's career, isn't it? How many years have you been doing this for?

Yeah, just finally finished off the seventh year. So it was three free undergrad science and then I've just finished my fourth year of postgraduate medicine. So yeah, that's it and start get a reality check out in the real world soon.

That's an example of playing the long game, isn't it? You know, it's hard work for those seven years but at the end of it you're going to have a career that you're going to really love. And, and that's what the message I was trying to get to you and I don't know whether you believe me or not at the, at the start. But certainly I'm saying to you, look, you've got potential in this sport if you just give yourself a chance to build it the right way. And yeah, I don't know what's your take on, on how we started?

Yeah, I think I'll firstly, I'd just like to rewind a bit and just say like a huge thanks to Nick. So when I started though, no one will know this but he, you know, I bought an event program that used to be available for, you know, a 32 week program or something like that and lead up to an event. And Nick sort of on his own accord was just touching with starting a bit of coaching. He was a bit just an athlete and working as well as himself, but he basically just for free was coaching me. You know, much like Jerry, Jared is now just in his own time and out of his own free will and being a huge role model for me and someone I looked up to a lot as an athlete. I knew he's a sensational bike rider. I'd always, you know, admired the way he played football back in the day as well. And someone I'd always really looked up to as a person. Probably more important, he'd always sort of conduct himself. He's an outstanding, outstanding bloke. So I guess everything he was telling me I was just sucking down like it was gold. And the fact that he was taking an interest in me and really willing to share his knowledge and expertise with me, I felt so fortunate. So I think that really helped early on to really take some of those lessons on board and listen to, you know, as Jared has explained and riding, riding the time trial bike well and where to apply to power and the things that mattered rather than just, you know, previously I'd probably been used to just flogging myself, training a bit without getting the detail and sort of, I guess the fine art of it out. So. And to this day, Nick's a huge, huge supporter of mine and I still take on board everything he says in extremely high regard. And I'm rattling questions off at him, you know, on a weekly basis and he's always there to lend an ear and use his expertise in my favor. So I'm very grateful for that. But I think those things then combined with the fact that I was seeing really nice progress from, from an early stage meant that it was really easy to just fall into the plan. And when I started working with Jared and Jared was saying, you know, there's this sort of golden three year mark, I guess I was a bit like, oh, yeah, maybe, you know, if you make it that long, you probably see a bit of progress, I guess. And I didn't really appreciate the, you know, everyone talks about the cliche consistency, but it really has seemed to be in the last, know, six months or so, as I approach that maybe three years of Tribello, things have really started to click. And I think it was just really easy to stay in the process and adhere to the program. Listen to all the wisdom that Jared was sharing from all his experience and Jordi and Nick and the whole Tribala community who are just so generous in sharing their knowledge and any assistance they can provide. There's some amazing people involved and drawing upon all of that, but continually seeing all the progress month on month, you know, every. Every few races, you'd really see another line in the sand. That made it really easy to just lean into that, that process and trust that it would work. When you're continually, you know, running PBS in your time trials every six weeks or whatever, and you might have a slower one off the back of a bit more, you know, training load, but, you know, on your day, you're still going in the right direction. It meant that, you know, I wasn't too stressed about not doing heaps of run sessions and things because I knew that, you know, Healy endurance run of what was paying dividends come race day, and all those things that I guess Jared's really passionately drummed into me over time, I guess the proof is sort of just in the pudding. So whether I sort of think different or not, you know, in my mind, I don't really care because I trust that Jordy and Joy and Jared, you guys have got it all very well laid out. And it's not just something you're sort of drafting up on a. On a Sunday night over dinner and thinking, oh, maybe this will be worth a go. There's rigorous, you know, years of data of trial and error, and a huge amount of care and consideration into the athletes that I know what is being provided is the absolute, the best possible thing for me. So, yeah, I think the motivating thing was definitely seeing that continued progress and it made it really easy to lean to that process, um, and. And trust that. Trust that process and know that it would get see me to the best point in farm. And, yeah, looking forward to continuing to do so into the future is, you know, I'm able to keep expanding my training options and developing as an athlete. But, yeah, very much thankful and, and grateful for all that support I've had along the Way which has enabled me to hyper vaccine.

Incredibly well spoken as always. Yeah. And I think a lot of people who have ever met you at an event will know this is your personality that's shining through right now. And I want to look at some of the data and I don't want to shirk over the data because we spoke about the fact that you're already a great athlete but to improve the way you have at already such a good level is one of the most impressive parts. And look, we spoke about having a really high 20 minute FTP number, you know, when you came to us, but being good at 20 minutes from that, especially from that rowing background, you know you had that really strong engine that doesn't make you a good 70.3 rider or 70 half Ironman athlete, you know, to convert that to a 2 to 2 hours 20 ride which is kind of where you were at the start. It's totally different. And so I don't want to, I don't want to shirk over that small improvement either because I think you were yeah, very high three hundreds, maybe even close to 400 watts early on. And what's your 20 minute power number now? I think you've peaked out at 4:17 or something.

Yeah, yeah, it'd be about that on the road bike I think. And some of those are rickles with races we do Thursday nights through winter. Yeah, it'll give all boosts over that, that series I think. Yeah and then it'll be, it's just, I think just shy of 400 on the top five, like unlike an out and back circuit. So yeah, I think we're chatting. Power meters definitely differ a lot. So I don't think the raw numbers, definitely not. You know the most important thing as I tell, tell Roland from time to time is pushing that poor bike of his. I don't know how it helped but I think yeah, having that ability to see the progress even if it is a little bit. And Jared was always really, you know, I guess proud and celebrating those like couple of what improvements. Like it didn't have to be, you know, you bumped up 20 watts or something ridiculous on your FTK and if you did great but you know, chasing that one or two watts, you know, on the test or it was a threshold session of you know, some five minute intervals looking to increase one watt the following week, just chasing those tiny little marginal gains. Yeah, I think it did help sort of push that along over time Julie. And yeah, I think, yeah, different bikes, different power meters and things that make it tricky along the way, but you absolutely see a trend in the right direction if you just look for those small little improvements along the way. And yeah, not do something too outrageous and look for something that's a bit unrealistic for where you're at at the time.

And it's also a good message for those listening that you know, the power is fantastic. You know, we're not, not dismissing that. But the biggest thing was how much faster are you riding now than you were when you started? And, and let's face it, the race isn't dictated by how big a power number you, you can do on the day. It's dictated by how fast you go from A to B. And you know, you might be doing similar power numbers but literally your average speed or your, your, any given time, you look down at the speedo on your bike computer, you are riding superiorly faster. And that can come down from really attention to detail with your bike fit, getting it, you know, your position, more aero, better bike equipment. But you know, all those years of training and learning to execute the power at the right times has enabled you to ride. Jordan, you've probably got stats there of what he was riding at 300 watts speed and now what he can ride 300 watt speed at now. And Tom, you would know the same, you know your own data. What does that look like compared to when you first started?

Yeah, I think initially I would have been riding, we looked up my first 70.3 was around 289ish watts average for the ride. And that was about a. George has probably got a 210ish 209 or something like that on the Melbourne Force, which is a pretty fast flat track. And that, you know, for over time I guess that's progressed, but maybe not as much as people might think. Like I was, I think this year at Melbourne I wrote around 315 watts, something like that and maybe just under that and, and the speed was much better, you know, sort of 44 point something. I think it might have ridden the 201 or something like that. So I, I mean eight minutes is a fair improvement but as you said Jared, it wasn't just on, you know, riding more power. And that's the definitely something. I think I've learned a lot this year as I've probably grown in confidence as an athlete and sort of been confident in that if I do my sort of best ride I will end up in a good position and I am confident in that now. And that has taken some time to develop. But I Probably used to get a bit too caught up in trying to ride a good average power number rather than this year really focusing on the speed a little bit more and trying to ride the course further effectively to get the most speed out of the bike in the course. And I guess equipment plays a big role in that as well. Undoubtedly. And I've been incredibly grateful and very, very fortunate to have been supported a bit like Giant family as Jared and Jordy have shared before. They've got an incredible relationship with Giant that Jared sort of had for many a few decades now. Jared one or two maybe. And I'll be very lucky for Giant Orman the bike shop to be always having my bike absolutely in outstanding condition, ready to race. And I'm very grateful to all of Giant Darren from Giant for giving me the opportunity to ride on some really good equipment, things that I otherwise wouldn't be able to access myself. Bike is not cheap as a student, so getting a bit of assistance in that area has been, yeah, incredibly valuable. And I always feel when I'm wrapping my bike in transition that, you know, I've got one of the best looking bikes and fastest setups there and that's a huge confidence boost on race day that I know I can just focus on what I can control. With all those other things taken care of, you know, absolutely perfectly. It's sort of just down to me to execute my race plan that I've, you know, gone over with Jared and, and I guess having that focus on the, on the speed and the power and the execution and how those things might marry out on race day means that I've just been able to control what I can and see those things progress over time with some equipment additions along the way that I'm really grateful for. And they've made a huge difference. There's, there's no denying that it's a big part of the sport. And yeah, I'm very fortunate to have some really good supporters in that area. Yeah.

And I want to really hone in on this message about the data versus speed argument. We did a whole podcast episode on it about a couple of months ago, really explaining this balance between. You just can't go too far either way on the scale. If you're just trying to look at the average speed, you're not going to be executing properly. But if you're just looking at power, you're not doing exactly what you said just then in getting the most effective use out of yourself on the course. Yeah, thinking about those power numbers are a really key point when you mentioned this off air before we're talking was so hard to compare data for the last three, four years because you kept changing power meters and you actually kind of mentioned that it seemed like every time you upgraded bikes or equipment to a new power meter, it kind of put you back 10 or 15 watts. And so you have to really let go of this notion of continuously improving your power number, because the number is just a number and you got to compare it compared to the power meter you're on. And so riding 280 watts for low 40ks an hour for a 28 to 2 10, I can't remember if you were 209 or 211 in your very first Melbourne and then riding 2 hours 1 minute 50 seconds this year for an 8 or 9 minute improvement at 315 watts on probably like you said, a power meter that's relatively reading a little bit lower. That's monstrous. We expect maybe 5 to 10 minute improvements in more beginner athletes or less trained athletes over a period of time. But to go from that elite level cyclist that you already were to riding a 20150 is just monstrous. And I want to mention a really good comparison is you've done Sunshine coast three years in a row and your overall time in that has come down 13 to 15 minutes or so. I think one of the courses was short and we gave you a 353, but we kind of worked out based on your bike speed, you were probably more around the four hour mark and then a 358 a year later and then a 3:48 this year in probably your best speed performance on a course that you've ever done. And to improve that much across pretty comparable 70.3s and conditions is pretty phenomenal. And Dad, I want to kind of get your observations as a coach, watching those comparisons and going, geez, you found a lot of time on the bike and running there. How's that been to watch?

Yeah, that's been the most enjoyable part. Knowing that the strategies that we've talked about, Tom's been able to implement and prove that, that, you know, we know, we know from our own experience that if you do it this way, it is a faster way to ride. And, and you've really shown that. But not only that, the riding has enabled you to run from consistently running 120s in these races to then running 118s to 116. And so because you're not expanding so much energy on the bike in the wrong spots, you're actually able to Run better. And, and I think that's the sport of triathlon, isn't it? You know, it's no good saying how fast did that guy ride? But look, he didn't run very well at all. It's his triathlon. It's swim, bike and run. And you know, being the fastest bike rider is a great thing, but it's nothing to do with the race. It's, it's who can swim, bike and run the fastest. And, and so I think that's the most satisfying part is it's never one thing, as we say all the time, but there's a combination of things. If you ride, if you ride more efficiently, ride the power in the right spots, conserve energy, don't spike out of the ranges, then your running pace becomes a lot more manageable. And don't forget for those people listening, Tom's an age grouper, so he's not riding in a pro race where there's a pace line and he's riding the fastest out of anybody in the field. He is the fastest rider in an age group race in pretty much the world. We just saw that at Taupo and you rode literally one or two minutes slower than the pros did as a group at Taupo on your own riding through the field. And I think everybody needs to stop and hear that again, as a single solo rider in an age group where there, the whole road was covered with other age groupers, you're riding, you know, on average 5 or 6 kilometers an hour faster than most people. You've got traffic in your way. You're literally only a couple of minutes slower than the pros were all riding together. And, and you know, as a pack they're doing it legally, but there's still an advantage being 12 meters apart, as you know, you sit on the back of, of that, you're not working as hard as a guy in the front. So, so you're doing this solo and, and you know, that's what makes it harder to run. And that's why a lot of the pro runners can run better because they're getting an easier ride on their race day, whereas you're time trialing solo, you're riding in the wind on your own, and then you're having to get off and run having ridden a 90k solo time trial, compared to which comparing elite professionals to you as an elite age grouper. And so you know the day that you can actually improve your swimming will make it better for you to be in, in a bunch when you eventually get to race with those Guys. And that will mean your running times from 1 16s can be more competitive as a 113 or a 114runner, which is what our goals are. So, so for me, seeing the progression for you has been more about you really learning how to ride properly, which has helped you running. And I think you will be more excited almost about. You're really grateful that your bike riding has gone from basically 2:10 to 2 hours and you've done 159, 2 hours, 201 many times now, but you're now taking chunks off your run in these events, which is, I suppose from your point of view, almost as, as exciting.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think just to reiterate as well, like, I've been really lucky, I guess, to those bike times to have come down over time, but I guess from my internal perspective, nothing's really changed. And what I've been other than, you know, trying to ride any, any fast or any harder, like I've just been trying to execute my, my own race. And because I've had some, yeah, some really nice race preparation phases, I've gone into races in good form and executing the plan that I've had has just meant that over time, you know, as my forms improve over the last couple of years, the result that that sort of spits out at the other end has just been on a natural progression. So I guess it's a good reminder for myself as well to as I look to continue like improving into the future, hopefully to not try and do something different. I don't have to try and do anything miraculous or have some sort of magic day that just executing the best I can in that day and alongside, you know, a good training block will hopefully continue to show that progress. And Jermaine Jared mentioned, you know, it's a triathlon. There's no, no use riding super fast and then not being able to run. But I guess, you know, I fully accept as well that being a weaker swimmer, it's a triathlon and that's completely on me. It's part of the sport and it's a disadvantage at times not being able to ride with some of the stronger age group guys. But it's something that, you know, I'm working hard at, which we'll probably talk about a little bit more in a moment. But having that, the race up the road, I guess always keeps me really intense and really focused on the bike to try and close that gap to the fast eight bit guys that I know, I mean, since we've had Roland with trivelo for the last couple of years he's been given me many sleepless nights and always been a character chase because we're, you know, we're best mates and we know if we both have a good day, we're going to be, you know, plus or minus a minute of each other somewhere on the road. And I know coming from behind after the swim I have to get everything I can out of a ride, but also not overcook myself because I know he can put together a really strong run when he has a good day off us off a really good ride as well. And I know up probably won't be able to put too much time into him on the bike. He's an absolute monster of a man, dragging those other hatred guys up ahead. So it always keeps me really focused on what I'm doing at the time. And Jared's been really amazing this year in allowing me to be really present. And I think before every race, Jared, I think the last thing you'll say is just stay in the moment, stay present and just do what you can at the time. And that's really, really hit home, I guess. And man, that I've been able to just focus on, you know, 10, 20K blocks of the ride and try and close that gap as much as I can. But still understanding that if I absolutely blow myself up, there's some strong runners like Roland and some other really good Asia athletes up front who are going to do a fast ride and they're going to run really well as well. So I guess having that full picture of the triathlon and how to execute the whole race has helped a lot. It just seems that progress. But I guess, yeah, the message for me would be that it's not trying to do anything crazy or different and go out on race day and do something completely bonkers. I guess just continuing that execution focus at each moment in time and each race as it comes seems to, you know, enable you to get the most out of yourself and hopefully having had a good training block, see the progress when you, when you step back and look at the big picture of it.

So you spoke about how mentally and physically it's kind of really come together in the last six months just in terms of again, not, not the result, although the results are what has come together. But you know, really aligning that those execution expectations. And for context, I do want to talk about the running improvement and then go into some of the race results. So I really did. I went back and looked at your first 5k time trial with us which was 17:30 for 3:30 pace for 5k. And yeah, just recently as we mentioned, you ran 318 for 10km 33.04 I think just shy of breaking that 33 minute mark barrier. But your 5k PP now PB now is 16:15 at 3:15 pace.

Is that right? Yeah, yeah, I think that was fortunately a nice negative split as Jared would have been happy to see.

Yeah, yeah, but really, I think your first 70.3 you ran a 127 at 353 pace and then yeah, your PB half marathon was this year at Sunshine coast with a 1:16:43 and that's 3:39 pace for a half marathon inside of 70.3. So that is just absolutely fine. So there's some of the numbers. But look, you've had an epic run of races this year. You know, taking the win at Sunshine coast, taking the win at Melbourne, taking a miniature long to start the year. Is that right?

Yeah, very, very closely. Right, right to the line with Roland.

17 seconds.

Yeah, epic battle with Roland. We did speak about it on the podcast, but yeah, like you said, best mates coming down to the wire, you know, race tactics and 17 second gap, pretty awesome.

And then if I could just quickly jump in, Jordy as well. I think it's unreal that, I mean there's Roland, but I've got some other mates. Jack, Gus. Yeah, a few others within that sort of, you know, top end of, I guess of the age group within Australia. And it's just awesome to go to races knowing that there's guys who, if you all have your best day, it's going to be, you know, touch and go to whoever's going to come out on popping it. Good fun. And it's really motivating in training as well to, to know that the people that are, you know, you're competitive with and friends with, but, you know, a nice healthy competition that if things all go well for everyone, it's going to be really tight come the end of the race. So I think it keeps everyone on their toes and I've got absolutely no doubt that, you know, knowing Roland's prepared as well as I have, you know, for most of these races, given that he's also, you know, in the, in the trivelock group as well. I know he's going to have, you know, dotted his key, dotted the eyes and crossed the T's and it's, it just pushes each other along. I think we've definitely dragged each other along a lot in this last, like 12, 18 months. Yeah. And also, I guess I'm really, yeah, thankfully and grateful for having. Having guys like that to really, you know, toe the line against. I feel like you are really racing in some of these especially, you know, come to the second half of the run when people were sort of neck and neck and might have started, you know, slightly apart, but you're getting a split out on the course and it makes it really, really enjoyable, I guess, as an athlete, to have that competitive side of things.

And it's, it's also, it's also interesting. Tom at Melbourne with latest trivelo coach Matt Phillips, got off the bike with you in the trivelo colors. It was fantastic to stand there and watch. I think it was Gus, you and Matt all running out of transition together. And, you know, Matt has embraced the trivalo method himself and has turned his racing around and I think he's won his last four races and just following the same strategy, same processes. And, you know, there's another guy that you're going to actually have to watch, Tom, because, yeah, he's got you in his sights.

What do I know? There's. Because, you know, people probably, you know, see if one of these, you know, really competitive Trivella results and think, what's the, the special formula? Everything. And, you know, we won't give too much away, but there's, there's no special recipe. It's just leaning into, into the process that Jared and. And the team have developed over time. And so I know anyone who comes on board and is trusting with that process and making the absolute most of everything Jared and Jordy and Nick are sharing with them is going to see some really good adults in not. Not too long. So, yeah, it's awesome to see someone like Matt come on board and be excelling so quickly. It was like, yeah, it was awesome to see can step off the bike with us and, yeah, it's motivating to see other people go, I guess, along that same journey. But I've been so fortunate to go on this last few years as well.

It's. I'd say George coaching Roland and Tom at events has been an intriguing thing from a coaching point of view. I'm talking to Tom about his tactics and then I'm talking to Roland about his tactics and I'm saying, yeah, you're going to have to watch. I'm talking to Roland, you're going to have to watch Tom here. He's going to be doing this, this and this. And I'm saying to Tom now, Roland's going to be up the road, you're going to have to not worry about that. You're going to have to concentrate it. So from a coaching point of view, it's really weird to coach two guys who are, who can either can win on the one day but to appeal to their strengths. And that's the thing that I'm pushing for you and for Roland and for Matt is to, you know, you've got to concentrate on the things you can control and not worry about what the others are doing. And I think you guys do that very well.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I guess when you know that there's someone there that's, you know, if you fault or at any point in gonna, you know, put one ahead of you, there's, there's not much margin for error, I guess. So, you know, I, that just for me reverts straight back to what can I control. Stay in the moment, as Jared said, you know, execute everything you can to the best of your, your ability to see what that lends you because I, I know I can't afford to, to get too external during a race or, or it'll run away from me and I'll, you know, make a mistake. And, and with margin so small, like at Geelong, 17 seconds and lots of other close races with Roland and some of the other strong age groupers, it's, there's not much wiggle room. So, so I really keep you on your toes to focus on, on getting the best out of yourself.

So it's been an epic run of half Ironmans and it is this delicate balance we keep bringing up of you're aiming for the top end of the podium and for wins at races, but it's just not about that. But it is at the same time. So it is this fine balance, it's this funny paradox, but through all these great results and you're trying to keep a level head on it all and you're feeling really good and obviously the whole goal is gearing towards the World Champs. How was your training through this last back end of the year and how are you feeling with it all kind of in that prep for World Champs?

Yeah, I mean, I know I keep saying I don't sound like a broken record, but I was super lucky with the way the back end of my year worked out in terms of my uni and things like that. I sort of finished up my degree late November and the final, I guess two months of that were a little bit less time intensive. So I had a really good opportunity to have the perfect preparation basically for, for Worlds I was you know able to train a bit more than I have before. Probably just you know, a couple of extra hours a week being you know a bit of a longer endurance ride midweek or throwing in an extra swim here and there and things like that that I probably haven't had the opportunity to do in the past and I know not everyone does. So I was, I knew that whole time that I had this golden opportunity and I was really grateful for it but I didn't want to see it run away. So I was pretty cautious of making the most of that but at the same time not overdoing it while I did still have some other commits on along the way as well. So yeah I guess I sort of had Sunshine Coast Melbourne and then Topor is the. The big key races with top honestly being that hay race and the others nice building blocks along the way and I think yeah coming off the back of winter had a, had a nice big base period through winter. It didn't do any racing after Geelong in March. So I had basically six months until Sunshine Post and Jared and I had a lot of chats about how to sort of approach that and we did a lot of endurance work just back to basics because we knew we'd have a pretty sort of race specific oriented back end of the year and I think that really gave me a good boost like I was seeing some of my best numbers on the bike following those Zwift races that I mentioned we do on, on Thursday nights through winter with the trivelo guys. Yeah I would have been hitting my best sort of 20 minute powers and things like that. It's always really motivating to see sort of coming off winter when I haven't been doing a lot of other intensity compared to like a race specific phase as well. I always find that a massive confidence boost to run, you know a PB10K. I think I might have done up at other park one of the days as well off really no hard running, just a lot of, a lot of consistent volume and you know we're not talking like there's lots, there's age group guys who would train more than me probably the 20, 15 and 20 hours a week depending on the week for what I was able to fit in which is yeah not, not insignificant but I'm sure there's people doing, doing more than that. So I was just being able to consistently kick those sessions off and that really set up I think this back end of the year where I could not worry Too much about having to overdo super long sessions and you know, big, big hard rides when they weren't necessary and I could just focus on executing my interval sessions, executing my race ready sessions as best as I could, always with I guess that final target racing mind, you know, to get the most out of myself in all those sessions. And I was lucky. As Jared said, I haven't really had any injury trouble right up until that, you know, couple of days that I was knocked around early in race week. No illness or anything either when a few around me, including my girlfriend. So I've had a pretty rough year in terms of sickness and illness and things like that. So I wasn't taking anything for granted along the way because I knew that it was all lining up really well and I was doing my best to take care of myself and keep the balance appropriate so that I wouldn't dip into a danger zone and risk getting unwell or injured when I knew things were lining up well. So yeah, I think the training all went really smoothly. I was really confident in, in where I got myself to. But I guess as, as this mentioned, Jordy, in terms of racing for results versus your own, I guess, execution like heading over to New Zealand. I would have been absolutely stoked if I had come 20th in the world and I was, you know, had executed my best race and had got everything out of myself and crossed the line absolutely empty. And yeah, having, you know, keep my numbers, so to speak, not just in sort of my power numbers. Don't want to get too hung up on those things as they can vary. But if I'd executed a race I was pleased with, I was, you know, telling myself I'd be very content and really happy with the journey because I knew I had a fantastic preparation and done everything that I possibly could to put myself in the best position on the start line. And not knowing, I made a very conscious decision to not look up any international athletes, didn't bother looking at any races or anything. Who knows what the conditions were like, the courses were like what, you know, their form was like at that time. So there was in my mind no point trying to assess any competition or anything, so to speak. But yeah, I guess having, having that confidence from a sort of successful build and then, you know, a few nice confidence boosters along the way at Sunshine coast in Melbourne meant that, yeah, headed over to New Zealand really, really pleased and proud, I guess of the block that we've been able to put together. And I was, yeah, actually pretty relaxed heading into the race because I Sort of had that, you know, I guess confidence that I'd done everything I could and all I could do was go out there and I knew I'd give it all I could and I hope that would land me up on the end of the race. But didn't know until pretty late on where that would be. Given the nature of the spread out starts at this World Champs event for Beatrix, you know, starting, you know, 10, 15 minutes apart across a couple of hours. So yeah, it was a good opportunity to just I guess put all of that build and preparation and I guess, you know the Tribella motto, plan, prepare, perform. All that was less to do was that the last bit and perform as best I could. And I was really happy with the, yeah, the way it all, it all turned out in the end.

It's interesting. There is a lot that has to go right and you've summed it up beautifully. You really did do the work when it counted it, you know, in the, the pretty crappy part of the year down in Victoria here in Australia in winter where you're out there along the great ocean road, some spectacular roads you're riding on and it is a mecca for training down there where you live and there's, you know, that lack of traffic lights, you don't stop at all. You have got pressure on the pedals. You know, all those things we talk about for the people who live in the city who try to do a long endurance ride and they've got 30 traffic signals that they're going to be stopped by and you don't have that issue. You've got unbelievable amount of hills at the back of forest and lawn down there and you really embrace that. And some of those four to six hour rides you were doing during winter and those long two hour undulating runs, they're the things that set you up beautifully for the race season. And as you mentioned, those Thursday night trivalos whiff races that we did over a period of the Tour de France and the Giro and the Welter where you know, we, we kind of made it yellow jersey, pink jersey, red jersey. Those events are really good threshold sessions that you did so well. But, but yeah, you know, it wasn't all smooth sailing. You know, you get a little bit of a hiccup. For those who don't know what happened. Your girlfriend Sophie was really unwell and then you ended up being quite unwell as well. That last week where you for the first time you couldn't do a taper, you actually had to rest and, and that was new to us. We didn't know how you were going to react. And when you have gastro, you know, your electrolyte levels in your body, you know, really hit rock bottom because you can't eat and drink when you have gastro. And so for you to get through that, and you were actually staying with Roland and his girlfriend, and she couldn't actually do the race. That's how sick she was. So. Which is disappointing for her. But. And Rollin was obviously affected by it as well, so. So that's an example of what can happen. You know, Roland couldn't compete the way he wanted to. You know, you guys are within a minute or two normally, and he was 20 minutes behind. So, you know, we have to be grateful for the fact that you got through it, but it definitely affected your performance. And, you know, what you said earlier about, you know, being happy with the performance if I come 20th as long as I've executed well. The first thing that you and I spoke about, and I've got to tell this story, but when we spoke, I was like, oh, yeah, you know, you've just won the world title. Well done, mate. And you're going, oh, you'd be so disappointed with me. I've executed so poorly. You weren't even embracing the fact that you'd won the world title. The first thing you said to me was, I'm so sorry. I just. I just executed so badly today. I don't know if you've looked at the data, but I can't believe the way I wrote. And I'm saying, tom, just relax for a second. You've just won the world title. Let's just enjoy that moment before we go to start analyzing the good and the bad of what you've achieved. But what you said earlier, you do live that. You're not making that up. You are really motivated by how well you perform rather than the result. And that proved it to me. Because in that phone call, you weren't talking about, hey, that was pretty good, wasn't it? I just won. You didn't even mention that. You were just so adamant that you performed the worst you've actually performed in the last year. And I'm saying, but. Yes, that's true, but this is the one time, Tom, where I'm actually. Okay, the fact is you got the result. If it was another age grouper who performed poorly on the day, I would be agreeing with you. But let's just smell the roses for at least 10 seconds here and not go into the negative side of what we can do better. And so it was a really funny moment for me. I really understood that you were totally embracing the concept of execution is more important.

Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

And, yeah, I mean, I don't want to play down the fact I was extremely. I think relief was probably the best word for after the race to. To have ended up where I did. But, yeah, I don't think that was. I was relieved because I. I probably did. Made some mistakes along the way, and it definitely wasn't a perfect race. Although I was very happy and super proud of the result, I think there. There was lots I can learn from that experience. Experience as well. And, yeah, I mean, I was. I was very, very fortunate to have had it. Had a good day. I know. I mean, we spoke about Roland, but. And unfortunately, yeah, Chelsea not being able to race, which is devastating for them, you know, huge target for a long time as well. And Soap as well, you know, had a disrupted year of training and knowing going into the race that I'd had, aside from that little bit early in race week, which I pretty much convinced myself would be totally fine. You know, just a couple of days of extra rest, and then once I got to New Zealand, I felt absolutely fine. I really don't think it. I played too much of a role in my race at all in the end of the year.

We'll disagree with that. But, yeah.

Like, I knew. I knew I was really well set up and. And I knew not everyone had had that same opportunity, so I really wanted to make the most of it on race day. And I think I maybe did a little bit too much, even perhaps on the bike, whether my powers reading a bit low or the nature of the course and a few different things like that, I knew I was going all right. But when I caught up to the other guys a little bit earlier than I might have been anticipating, I thought I might have been riding a little bit hard, but I was still feeling really good. So I guess, yeah, I sort of continued on and then. And then did have a little period in that last 10 or 15k where I was cramping up a little bit in. In my adapter on. On one of my leads, and so having to freewheel and stretch and just manage my effort to get through to the line. And I was a bit concerned I had overridden at that point, even though my numbers were, you know, like the lowest numbers I would have ridden all year in terms of my power and a normalized power, which was really interesting. But the. The effects of the. The course I Think and. And the way I've written had definitely hindered the way I was able to finish off that ride, which was, I guess, in terms of coming back to what you were saying, Jared, about me being a bit disappointed. I was really gearing up for that last 15k to ride really solid, and my energy felt great. I felt really good in myself. I'm really on top of the effort, but unfortunately, I just sort of hit this patch where I couldn't ride the way I wanted to. And you know, what the people might say, you know, I wish I could ride differently, but I was really feeling like I'd set up the ride to finish off that last 10 to 15k, where there's sort of a false flat uphill drag and then a bit of a climb before the descent back into town. I really thought I prepared myself and measured my effort to ride that right on top of my range and hopefully take a really good chunk of time on. On the field and set myself up to. To have a nice smooth run. But I ended up having to sort of just manage that effort back into town as best I could without cramping up too much. And I was. Yeah, I guess my disappointment was that I was probably most confident in my run of all three legs heading into the event. I think I'd hit some really good run form. Jared touched on. In fact, I haven't done a lot of hard running over the last few years as a collective, but I've had, you know, sort of built up to a point where this final block, we decided to probably do an extra hard run a week that I was pretty daunted to actually attack when I saw the program and I mentioned that to Jared. But it actually, I was able to manage it, handle it really well, and it was a huge confidence boost being able to add an accurate, you know, hard run into the week. And I guess that paid off in that 10k time trial I did, which was, you know, far beyond sort of my expectations off the back of a solid training block, not being too fresh. So, yeah, I was really excited to hopefully have a really, really good run. And unfortunately, given I think the way I ride, way I rode, sorry, and a few other components along the way, I lost a bottle of nutrition, so I sort of had to problem solve a little bit out on course. I was just. My legs were absolutely shot starting the run, and I really had to measure my effort and not run the way I'd hoped and planned, which I know was the same for many people on the day. I think the Conditions in the course did wear a lot of people down, particularly for those later age groups. Starts. No one really ran to what their expected potential would be, I think looking at a lot of times because it was quite an uncharacteristically warm day in the ozone free sun down in New Zealand and that was it. Yeah, it was tough. It was really tough. And I was quite, like, I was trying to say in the moment, but quite frustrated, disappointed during the run to not be able to execute what I'd hoped to and felt like I'd prepared to. And it's easy to say when you don't do it on race day, but I really had thought I put myself in a position to probably put my foot forward for the fastest run I've done in a. In a half iron and today. And I ended up unfortunately, unfortunately on one side, but fortunately on another because I was very concerned I was going to completely blow up and cramp up and not be able to move at all and give away a lot of time that I'd made up on the bike. But fortunately in the end was able to salvage something. Although disappointingly, it's probably, yeah, the slowest run I've had in a race in 18 months or so. But I guess the big learning for me and a message that Jared and Jordy, I guess they both mentioned this year is just always finding a way and managing the challenges that sort of arise throughout races. Like, we strive for it, but, you know, that elusive, perfect race will continue to be something you're searching for, but I'm not sure it will ever actually come come true on race day. But managing those little bumps that happen along the way and just always recalibrating and thinking, okay, what's the best thing I can do right now to get the most out of myself and to put myself in the best position when I cross the finish line. That was sort of the mindset I had to take on the run. And I mean, I started pretty conservatively for the first 10k with my plan to just run around 3:45 pace in the end, which would be probably, you know, five or a bit over five seconds a case slower than I'd probably been targeting. I was hoping to sort of run in that, you know, mid to high 330s range on average by the end of the end of the run. And my plan still at that point was to run the first 10k at 3:45, make sure I went through halfway feeling good, and then to build it home from there. I was really confident in my last 5k in the back end of my run up. Every time trial and session we do, we practice, you know, negative splitting and managing your effort and progressing throughout. And I was still, despite feeling absolutely terrible and my legs being pretty shot, I was, I was convinced that I would come good and that I'd be able to finish off at least the last, you know, 5K, pretty close to 3:30 pace if I had to. For the, you know, depending on where people were on the course and things like that, it's. Well, it would have needed that extra bit of motivation as I have a few recent races with, with some, some athletes close to me to really turn myself inside out and get there. But I was completely confident I'll be able to do that. But unfortunately the, the body and the race had other plans on the day and I really did slide off and was just having to manage my effort to get to the finish line without sort of cramping or the leads compete completely blowing up. And that was, yeah, a little bit bittersweet I guess because I mean I, yeah, I'm certainly not trying to play down the fact that I was able to win the age group world championships for the 25-29s. Like I was absolutely thrilled for that. And if you told me that before I left Australia to the race, I would have been over the moon. But it was that bittersweet feeling that I'd got a good result but hadn't felt like I'd absolutely got the best out of myself that I'd be hoping for. However, I think even the way things turned out on the day, I did everything I possibly could with the preparation I had behind me and the, the things that led up to the race and on nice day, I think I really squeezed everything I possibly could out of, out of myself. And for that car, I was proud, but I guess just a tad disappointed to not have, you know, the perfect race, which I'm sure I never will, but there's always something to, to chase and improve up and still time.

I think it's a good message for those listening. And I think one of the things that was a little bit out of your control is knowing whether you trust the power meter. And I think, you know, you've, you've had so many races in the last three years where, you know, your number is around 320 to 330. 315 to 330.

Yeah.

And, and for you to be riding 305 and, and 308, you're thinking, well, it feels pretty, pretty easy. But I'm still riding, I think where I want to be, but the power is quite low and I'm trying to ride higher, but. And then when you were going through those hills, you were riding a little bit over and I think the power meter might have been reading 15, 20 watts lower than it. Than it. Than it should have been.

Yeah.

And that can cause any athlete to override and a lot of the courses have out and back where you can check. You check what the power is out and check what the power is back.

Yeah.

And you check the speed and then you know the power meter is reading higher, the same or lower. And so you didn't get that opportunity in this course because it was out and back. So.

Yeah, and so you go, sorry, Yeah, I guess with the, the nature of that one lap course as well, which I was super excited about, like I really liked that idea of a one lap course, but it also meant that I didn't get any reference point in who was up the road. So sometimes when my, I think my power is a little bit different, I can sort of use that gap to others up the road as another reference point as well as using the, the out and back sections of courses or you know, the lap one speed to power ratio. I think that's something that Jared, you spoke about a lot and you as well Jordy on the podcast have, have said is a really good, I guess, tactic to use to, to see how things are tracking on the day. And that's been really useful in the past when the numbers having been Maddie felt the effort was. But on this course I had no reference point and because it was just in the, you know, New Zealand countryside on some thick sort of grindy chips your roads, there was no one on course either. So I had no idea how far behind I was. I knew I was about two and a half minutes behind Roland and some of the other strong age groupers who were much better swimmers than I. And it was sort of just constantly playing on my mind if I was going to get off the bike and that would be three minutes or, or four minutes or would it be a minute 30? Like I just had no idea until I suddenly did sort of catch them and then I almost, it was, you know, sort of around 55k maybe into the bike and I was quite surprised. I mean, obviously, unfortunately Roland wasn't able to ride as strongly as he usually does, you know, for things outside of his control, which is really disappointing for him. But there was a bunch of other guys around him as well that I probably hadn't expected to necessarily catch at that point in the race. So then I was a little bit in my own head whether I'd ridden too hard by that point. But I was. I still felt great and as everyone always does early in the race, and I. I thought I'd measure my effort really well to ride that back end of the ride super smart and tactically really well and sort of empty the tank up that final hill and then recover back into town before the run. But, yeah, I think a combination of the. The fact I probably did override those. Those early. Some of those early kills, plus the fact that me overriding them was probably. Yeah, as you said, Jared, maybe 10 to 20 watts lower than it actually was, if it was rated correctly, meant that I probably spiked a little bit too much early in the race, and it did catch up with me. But, yeah, it's tricky when you don't have a reference point to measure against that power. Yeah.

And I think, you know, you've never cramped in any race in the last three years. And don't dismiss that electrolyte loss from gastroenteritis, which is, you know, you can't eat or drink for however many days that is. So you're probably. Your body's at rock bottom and you're trying to rebuild that by race day. So the combination of a power meter reading low causing you to ride power that's outside the range, and then, you know, not having the right fuel, you lost a bottle as well. So there's a few things. But the thing that we're most proud of is you still navigated your way around it. And look, when you look back at the result at the end, when you see the pros are riding a 159, 158, two hours, and you're riding 201, you know, you were riding probably the best you've ever ridden on one of the harder courses, even with the fact that you couldn't ride the last 20k the way you wanted to. So, you know, you certainly. That proves that you were riding way above yourself earlier, but without knowing it, just because you had such good taper into the event, that you had such great legs, it wasn't really, you know, normally when we say to people, if you feel like it's hard, it is hard. And so the power meter could be reading too low. And.

Yeah, yeah, I usually do really struggle, actually, to ride, like, up to my power zone early in races. Like, my legs always feel terrible coming from the swim, and I really struggled to push, like, into My race power early on, on the first lap of races. So I thought the fact that it was feeling fine at what it was was a really good sign that I'd be, you know, able to hold and increase later, later in the race. But yeah, unfortunately it wasn't the case. But I think, yeah, as I mentioned just trying to find a way and navigate those challenges as best opportunity. Something that yeah, I was pleased with. And I feel like I've had the opportunity to do a few races this year and add a few sort of challenges from different athletes on course late in runs and things like that. And trying to always find a way just to get the job done and get the most out of myself was a bit of a theme I guess that I had in my mind going into the race. And yeah, despite a few things not being absolutely perfect I think I was, yeah, really, really happy with the way I was able to sort of smooth things out and navigate them as best as I could at the time.

Yeah, I think that that message of being able to get through when things don't go according to plan is, is just so key. You know, this was your big A race, this was your big. Everything we worked through towards the year was for this race and for things to go quite wrong in the whole week leading up. And you definitely as you, as you always do, you're downplaying the gastro and you said you felt fine race week and final race day but you never know with sickness how that weakness is going to affect you on race day. And for Roland there was a big example where his body couldn't do what he wanted and so it's super disappointing and as dad mentioned that you might have overridden execution wise but there's no doubt the gastro had an impact on your ability to run afterwards. And I think your gutsiness on the run is one last point I wanted to touch on because you're getting live feedback from your support network about how far back second was and it was a great run battle that you know you weren't running as well as you could and the walls can start shrinking in a little bit where you're going far out. I expected to be able to lift here and I can't and that can send any athlete into a bit of a panic mode. Second might be mowing you down. How did you handle that mentally and yeah, you just have to guts it out right to the finish line.

Yeah, yeah, I mean I had amazing support out on course not just from my parents were both there. My girlfriend's Soph and close friends were all around the course giving me splits as well, which was awesome. And you know, data, all that sort of information can be a little bit hard to interpret when you're racing because you're not sure how accurate it is and you don't know if people are, you know, on the right tracker or the right time point and considered all the different things at the time and you don't have time to of debrief with them about it. But because there was such amazing support from so many people, I was sort of able to get the same message repeatedly. And that was enough for me to really, you know, believe it, that it was accurate. So that, that was incredibly helpful to keep me sort of present and in the race. But yeah, I think I had. I was sort of hearing early on, maybe in the first lap that I had about 40 seconds ahead on the, on the overall, I'm not sure if that was the same guy that was in my age group or the overall race as well. So I was sort of doing the maths and I, I was, as I said, really confident that I could finish off strongly if I just managed my effort to not overdo it too early on the run. So I was sort of happy to bleed a bit of time early because I know that a lot of runners go out pretty hard and then not, not too many of them could hold on. And the end of day I knew I could only to the finish line as fast as I could and I was going to be happy however that played out. But yeah, I was, yeah, as I said, meant as I said, I was planning to just run, you know, or once I'd started running and realized that I wasn't really able to, to move how I'd hoped to run that first lap at about 3:45 pace. And I knew that that would be waiting a bit of time. But then, and I was early, but then I think coming through that 10, 11K mark, I got some feedback that the gap was only like 30 seconds. So I might have only lost about 10 seconds, I think to that point. Not sure whether someone had gone out really hard, not with a different person or what the movement was. But it was tricky because you had no idea who was who. I think it was the English guy at the time that was running me down. And the only reason I knew is because he ran up alongside me unknowingly. To myself. The course was choppers with people that had started at all various times throughout the earlier that morning. Um, so it wasn't very Clear who was who. But I heard his coach actually saying to him that he, you know, closed the gap to 30 seconds and he needed to hold 3:40 pace or get under 3:40 pace. I sort of put two and two together that he must be this guy that was chasing me down. And at that time I was, I was sort of told that I had a minute on everybody else and about 30 seconds to this guy or something to that effect. So he ran up to my, my shoulder and just in front of me and I went absolutely all into, say, his heels and just to not let him get away for the next 5k to take me through 6 band k or so that was my plan mentally at that time. And I just backed myself to finish off strongly and not let him get more than 30 seconds of the gap, which he would have been what he needed to finish on. You know, the total time headed me. So I guess when he came up and then passed me, I just did everything I could to stay on his heels, which was a really good sort of mental boost as well. It's much easier running when there's someone that's running a similar speed and that, you know, you're competing directly against. You know, it's so much easier to just get that little bit extra pep in your step and, and get the legs ticking over a little bit more quickly, not worry about the watch. I was just, I knew he wasn't running outrageously fast, so I was happy to sit with him. But yeah, I was determined to just not let him get away at that point, I guess. And I sort of in my guess at that point in the race was thinking if I could hold on to him, I would be able to win the, win the whole race. Because he was my closest sort of competition at that point from, from the information I was getting on course. And then there was sort of a rise, I guess, coming back out at the section near the swim start. So that must have been around 12k in or so perhaps. And I put in a bit of an effort. I realized he'd sort of just fallen off my heels because I overtook him around a corner. And then I realized I had a little gap. So I, I put in a bit of an effort for the next 2K. I mean, I say effort and I know it's all relative and like some people listings will be really far for and some people really slow for, but I sort of dropped it to around lower 340s I think for a couple of K's there, which wasn't anything drastic given What I hoped to be running faster than that for the whole time anyway. But it was a significant increase in effort based on, you know, where I currently was and, and I realized I had a bit of a gap and I thought if I could extend that out to about a minute or so come sort of the final turnaround, I'd be able to hold on and, and be, be in a good place for the, for the overall win and the age group and everything like that as well. So I did that and then I think I did. This was another section. I guess I was disappointed in my execution because then I paid the price sort of in that final third of the race, running some pretty slow K's, sort of in the 350s for, you know, three or four pays in a row. So that whilst that effort wasn't, you know, speed that was beyond anything I've done before. Trained on the day with what my legs and system was dealing with from the bike effort, it was probably too much and I, and I slowed down quite a lot and I bled a bit of time and I was then fortunately given another split. I think that guy that I dropped had actually, in hindsight, had blown up. And another, a front, a French guy who was in my age group, a guy called Remy was alleged, allegedly sort of chasing me down and he was running quite quick. He ended up running a 115, I think, which was the fastest age group run by quite some margin on the day. And I think he was chasing me down. But I knew I had a minute 20 or so with maybe 4k's to go. So I was sort of doing the maths and I knew if I could, you know, run around 340 to 350 pace and finish strongly, I didn't think he was going to be running, you know, 320 towards the end. So I was still, you know, really suffering at this point, to be honest. Just to keep putting one foot in front of the other and to not completely slip off the, slip off the pace. So it was sort of taking all my, I guess, mental resolve and, you know, trying to focus on my form and distract myself and do everything I could through aid stations to keep cool with ice and everything, just to hold a pace that, you know, if you told me beforehand, I wouldn't have imagined to be so difficult at that time. And I was able to finish off around the last couple of K's a touch quicker and just emptied the tank. There was a, you know, a bit of an uphill drag into the finish shoe and I was borderline cramping, running up that. So I was trying to run as fast as I could, but not, you know, I didn't want to, you know, all of a sudden have to stick down and stretch out a cramp when I knew this fast Frenchie was chasing my tail. So I ran as hard as I could without, you know, doing anything silly, believing that that was going to give me about a minute gap on the overall. And for a brief 10 minutes or so I thought, I thought I might have done the double. Jazz Brown, another girl from Geelong, won her 18 to 24 age group on the Saturday and brought home the overall age group world title to Geelong as well. So I thought I might have been able to back up her effort and do the double. And I was in, I was in bits after the, after the line for, you know, 10 or 15 minutes trying to get my breath and recover. And they were shuffling people through to clear the finish line for the finished photos and whatnot. And about 10 minutes later, a guy who was following me on course with some bikes, we found me and we looked it up to make sure before I got too excited. I would, you know, relieved to have finished and not blown up. But I didn't want to get too ahead of myself. And we saw a very fast young French lad called Leo had notched me by 1.74 seconds across nearly four hours for the overall age group win. He was in the 18 to 24 age group who'd started tenants after our waves. So unfortunately on course when people were looking at the splits, he was sort of not up to the point I was up to yet. And no one unfortunately seemed to know where he was at. But mind you, I don't know I could have, could have done anything more. I mean, 1.74 seconds isn't a lot across four hours. I don't think I'll ever race in socks again. That would have cost me 10 or 15 seconds. And had a, you know, few, few mornings waking up early, ruminating and all the things I could have done a little bit differently this week, but I gave it everything I had at the time and a full credit. He had a phenomenal race. He, he swung about a minute quicker than all the pro athletes and he would have been completely solo, no doubt, swimming that quickly and held on to put together a really consistent race across all three legs. So I think he's only 21 and, you know, to take out the overall age group race at a, at a half ironman when you're 21's pretty good going. So I'm sure we'll see some big things from him down the line. Wearing a French tri suit at some races. But yeah, it was a bit bittersweet, which I guess comes back to the phone call I had with Jared afterwards because I was absolutely thrilled with taking out my age route at the world Chance. And that was, you know, I felt a real honor and privilege to be in a position to be able to execute a race and have that title. But I just couldn't help but ruminate over that two seconds. You know, dropping a bottle or picking up nutrition on course. You know, there was just countless places I could have found two seconds throughout the race. But I reminded myself, you know, he might have had, you know, a dozen things go wrong as well and should have actually beat me by, you know, two or three minutes. So, yeah, who knows? I'm, I'm absolutely stoked with, with the way I sweet everything I could out of myself at the time, but it couldn't. Hey, it could. I couldn't help but just have that little sting, a little bit of fuel for the fire being, being so folks, that overall nice bow around the year, but it'll, it'll spur me on through, through summer into next year, I'm sure.

Bloody phenomenal. What a story and what a gutsy effort. And the way you were racing that run leg is just, it's just so. It was, it was exciting. It was, it was hard to watch in terms of, you know, the pacing and it was dramatic and it was just an incredible finish. And, and yeah, the 1.74 seconds, it's. You did say to yourself, as disappointing as that was, you did squeeze everything out of yourself and you can rest easy on that. Yeah. Yep. So I want to finish off by asking Dad. I mean, I know you spoke about the kind of humor around like the first placebo chance versus the execution, but that was one of those post race calls that is just as special as it gets. So dad, from your perspective, to finish off, how is that post race conversation given that the journey it's been so far.

Yeah, it's a, it's an interesting one with Tom and you know, I don't like talking about Tom behind his back or it's hard to talk about him when I'm, I'm looking at him. But it's very emotional when, you know, you've been on a journey together and, and for him to go. When he explained to me what had happened, I was even more prouder and it just, it just reminded me of the, the things in your weaponry that you need to tackle these events. You just have to try to navigate your way around races. No matter what's thrown at you, you've got to find a way and that's the thing. Data is great and we are big advocates of it, but understanding how you're feeling and making decisions is what I was most proud of. And sure, I was over the moon with his world title and for me the overall win is, you know, that's great, but it's, you know, you're there for one job is to win, win your age group world title and the other things are a bonus. For me, the thing about it was had he been able to execute the way he wanted to. And that's easy to say, everybody wants to do this but, but you know, a couple of little things that went against you with your power meter and your, and your week of, of gastro. They have significant impact on how you can execute. And I'm so proud of the way you executed with those things, things that, that were roadblocks for you and you navigated a way around to still end up getting the result that you wanted. So, so it was a quite emotional journey that we've been on together and it's one that you love sharing with a guy who's so humble like Tom. And a lot of the Trivalo athletes are saying, you know, you know, the difference between a PB and a world title. As a coach, for me it's the same, you know, they are completely different things. One is just you're doing your best, the other one you're doing your best and actually gets you to be the fastest in the world. They are completely different things. But for me as a coach with all our athletes, I just want to see them get the most out of themselves. And I suppose that's where I was a little bit shocked that Tom was, you know, straight away he was digging into. I didn't really perform the way I wanted to and, but you know, my first reaction is, you know, just, just let's just be enjoying what we, what we, what we achieved over all these years and all these training sessions and the build up you've had and the things that have gone really well for you over this journey. You've got to look and reflect back on those things. And there's so much more to comfort for you, Tom. And so you learn a lot from this experience. All the good things that happened along the journey of 2024 was a great way to finish the year. And what's going to happen next is going to be even more exciting for you. And this is just a great experience, experience that you've had. You will be able to take on board and learn from and, and, and get more value out of this. You know, you learn more things about how poorly you do than how well you do things, I think. So this is another example of it. So I'm super excited about the future. I'm satisfied with what we've achieved so far. But, but I think that you've, You've. You've still got a really good future ahead of you and a lot to work on still. But. But yeah, it's super exciting. What's, what's ahead for you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, as you said, you know, there's always opportunities to learn, even when things do go pretty well overall. And, you know, I think down the track, I'll be probably, in hindsight, pleased that there were some really big learnings to take away from this race and the end of this year. Because I've had a lot go right for me this year and I think it would have been pretty easy to just, you know, roll, ride the weight and roll with the punches a bit too much if everything went, you know, completely to plan and smoothly. Because I know the end of 2023, when I had a great race and Roland knocked me off by, you know, over a minute at that, that Melbourne race, it definitely spurred me on to, you know, rethinking. Matriar was really getting the most out of myself into, into this year, 2024. So, yeah, I think having that little, you know, character chase, 1.74 seconds will play on my mind for a little while, but I think it'll just remind me that, you know, when, whilst, you know, things did go really well for most of the year and didn't have many hiccups, there's always things that you can learn and take away and help to improve for, yeah, the next season and that races to come, which I'm, yeah, couldn't, couldn't be more excited about. I feel like really are just getting started and hopefully we can keep progressing.

And Tom, a huge congratulations again on an epic race and I was so pumped to see the result, but I was even more excited to hear the story because you see the results and whenever any athlete finishes, we're just so excited to see what actually happened. How did it unfold, how did this result come about? And I was more proud to hear how it unfolded and how you got the win because of the challenges. Thrown at you. And once you were sick the week before, you know, we're not going to panic as coaches, but it's just so disappointing because we don't know if that sickness means that a, you're not going to be able to race like Chelsea, or you're going to be able to race, but, you know, you're actually just not going to be able to perform and get the most out of yourself like Roland, or you're going to be able to race, but it's going to be really hard to get the most out of yourself. And a lot of people assumed you were going to win and had high hopes for you. And that's a really, really unfair assumption because a lot like dad said, has to go right for you to get that result. And for you, a lot of things went wrong. And you really showed in that story just then how hard you actually had to fight for that win. And it's actually a little bit almost more rewarding. Even though the execution wasn't exactly what you wanted on a perfect day where we know what your capability is, you were challenged in a different way, where you had to get the most out of your body given really tough conditions and the wind was seriously slipping from you and you held onto it to get it. And I think that is just so awesome. And that's what you can hang your head proud of that. Yeah, you. You had a much tougher day than any race you've had in the last 12 months, and you stood up to the challenge and it could have easily sipped from you and you didn't let it. So for me, I was so pumped to hear about that.

Yeah, thanks, Jordy. I think you're right. That's something that. That was what I was most proud of, I guess, on the day and from the whole year, just navigating those challenges as they arose, particularly on the day, and a few things didn't go my way and nothing like that has happened really this year. It's all been pretty smooth sailing on race day, which been very lucky. But you're navigating that as effectively as like put is something that you hope to continue to do. And I guess no small part of that was the conversations I had with Jared during the week and Jared's just unwavering support and belief in the process, in my preparation, in my execution, and I guess that just really filled me with confidence that whatever happened on the day, I was prepared and that I'd be able to manage it effectively and get the most out of myself and. And I Felt like I did do that. And I owe a lot to Jared for, you know, all these athletes do, but I feel like, I feel, I'm sure they all feel the same, but particularly lucky. He sets out a lot of time for me. He's as dedicated and passionate and generous as they come. And there's no way I'd be anywhere near what I've been able to put together this year without his unwavering support. And so, yeah, I would just like to highly consider, say a huge thank you to Jared up. I couldn't be more appreciative of Jared and the whole Tribella family. Jordy, Nick Rossi. There's so many people, Giant Orman, the guys at the bike shop, that all those little contributions, no small part from Jared, but all the little contributions along the way do add up. And I felt very lucky and privileged to be able to demonstrate what it had all culminated in, I guess on base day. And you'd know not everyone got the opportunity to do that. So, so very appreciative of that opportunity to demonstrate all the support that I got along the way. There's no way it was a one man show. It does Tagle Village and I've got a bloody good one, so I was very fortunate.

Yeah, great stuff, mate. We're really excited for where you can go and it's just kind of the start of your journey and you've got a great support network, as you just mentioned, around you at the moment in your age group journey and we know that you've got some big goals ahead which we're really excited to be a part of and see where you can go from here. And I think a lot of people are really interested to see where you can go on this journey because you are so young in it, you're three years in and. And you've got a long way ahead of you for some bigger things to come. So we can't wait to watch it. Any last thoughts, words from you, Tom or your dad that finish off? Thanks. Thanks again for coming on and sharing this story.

Yeah, I'll jump in quickly, Jared, if that's all right. There's, yeah, probably just a couple of other people that I'd really like to give a big shout out to. Branson Ford from Effortless Swimming. No doubt. Everyone seems to be. His podcast is very familiar with Branson, his work. He's has set aside some, you know, time for me this year, intermittently between races and every couple of months to do some analysis and some one on one sessions of my swimming that's, you know, no, there's no secret. It's my big weakness in terms of progressing in this sport at the moment and he's been an instrumental part in helping me along that journey and I've definitely seen some good inroads this year and it's something that I'll continue to work harder alongside him and I'm really grateful for his time and expertise. He's, you know, conference calling the, you know, best triathletes in the world and I'm a, you know, 27 minute half Ironman swimmer and he's, and he's giving me, you know, as much knowledge and expertise as he, as he can. So I'm very grateful for that. And yeah, also the Dan from Great Ocean Wetsuits is always building all my questions and super helpful with everything and really lucky to have a great wetsuit from him as well. Another great member, Tribello Community, I guess, who's a section I play himself. And someone I look up to just like Nick is Mitch Lawfin who runs the running company down at Albert Park. And I've been really lucky to get some shoes through those guys and always get fitted in, you know, nice, fresh, fast shoes and some mileage shoes and things with Mitch and the team. So just like say huge thanks to those, those guys for their support. As mentioned, the Giant Orman family and the Giant family as well have been fantastic. But all those different groups and organizations, I'm very thankful. I'm just, you know, one bloke from Geelong who's having a bit of a chip away at a hobby and triathlon and I feel very lucky to have people jump on board and give me, give me all the expertise and support as much as they can. So alongside family and all that as well, it all goes a long way.

Brilliant. Any last words from you, dad?

No, I'm super proud of Tom and the way he handles himself and for those who have listened to this podcast will now have a better understanding of who the person Tom Page is and how humble is how humble he is. And that is part of being a really good athlete. Humility, I think being gracious in victory and gracious in defeat. Sorry. And humble in victory is something that Tom really exudes and we can learn a lot from that from a young gentleman like this who really is a pleasure to coach because of his attitude, his approach and we can learn a lot of things about the way people go about it and I hope the age group listener out there has learned some things about it doesn't have to go well all the time for you to be enjoying the sport and there's going to be ups and downs along the journey and it's how you handle those things is the measure of that person. And I think, Tom, that's what you do so very well. And the gratitude you show for those around you, this is not made up. This is something that you, you know, you, you live and breathe and you do. You know, I get constant text messages from Tom, just saying things like, I'm so grateful that you've, you know, you, you've given me this information and I'm really so happy to be a part of this group. And I'm getting that from Tom a lot. It's just, it's, it's real. It's not something that, that he says because he has to. And that's the bit that I love about Tom. And yeah, he's got the maturity of a bloke who's been in business for 50 years. It's fantastic. And I can't wait to see next year when he starts his new career as a doctor and probably as a pro triathlete who really has got the world at his feet and will be challenged immensely with see if he can improve his swimming to start riding with packs rather than riding solo. It'll be the challenge. So can't wait to see what the journey happens next.

Very nice.

Looking forward to it.

Ladies and gentlemen, you're 70.3, 25 to 29 age group world champion, Tom Page. Thank you very much for listening to this episode. It's been absolutely brilliant. I've loved it. And we'll see you in the next one.

Yes, thank you, Sam.