The Perfect Training Program When Starting From Scratch with Shauna Donnelly

This podcast is brought to you by Trivelo Coaching, where we help triathletes and cyclists like you train smarter to race faster. I'm your host, Jordan Donnelly, and on my left is former Australian Ironman champion and head coach of Trivelo Coaching, Jared Donnelly. In today's podcast episode, we have another special guest joining us on the Trivelo podcast, and that is a family member of Trivelo, a direct family member, and that is our cousin, my cousin, Shauna Donnelly. And dad, your niece. And Shauna has had a miraculous story. She is a cancer survivor, and she's been through a journey of cancer the last couple of years, and she's come out the other side. And this is really a incredible story of perseverance, setting little goals at a time, patience, dedication, and it really is quite an emotional story. And it was a hard chat for us to have as a family, but we got through it, and the lessons on here are just invaluable for you to hear. And the reason we got shorter on was, I think it was a couple of months ago we were talking about the story of Remco Evenpoel and how he had that horrible crash a year ago and how he had to come back, you know, inch by inch and step by step. And after his crash, he actually couldn't walk. And then he had to learn how to walk again. And then let alone become a pro bike rider, he had to, you know, take his first steps and he'd work, he'd walk five minutes at a time and then 10 meters at a time. And then he would learn how to squat again, and then he would do single leg squats, and he eventually got back on the bike, and then he just rode the Giro d'. Italia. And, yeah, it reminded me of Shauna's story and this real theme of one step at a time, I just think is. Is so profound and so valuable. So it was a great chat with Shauna, and we got a little bit emotional, didn't we, dad? But she was amazing in her storytelling and openness.

Yeah. And I almost said then, I want to apologize for getting emotional, but I don't apologize. I suppose as a male, you get embarrassed when you get, you know, brought to tears. But that, you know, that to me, the journey that she's been on and everybody in life is thrown challenges, and some are massive, some are medium, and some are quite light. And it's how we deal with the challenges that I suppose epitomizes our life. And I'm so proud of the journey that Shauna has selected with the challenge that was thrown at her. And people can easily flippantly say, of course that's what you would do, but. But I don't know if that's what you would do if you're faced with the challenge that maybe you don't have. You know, at 30 years of age, you don't have the opportunity that you might not see 31 or 32. I don't know how I would react to that news. And that's why it's kind of a special story. And the resilience that she's shown and the dedication and the determination and the patience and the trust in all people around her on her journey. And that's what I think is a really good lesson. And I've learned so much from her about perspective and putting things into context and not overreacting to minor things that are really not that important, and to understand what is important each day in your journey. And it's not always the end goal. It's the. It's the journey to get to that goal that we select. And I'm a big goal setter, and I think that's a good thing. But don't be too dedicated into the end goal, but rather the journey. And that's what I think. Shauna really gets across well in this discussion, and I just loved hearing it, and I learned so much from watching her, and I'm a better person because of what, you know, what she says and what she does, and I'm grateful that she's in our lives.

Sometimes I think I wish I recorded every chat I have with Shauna because she always comes out with something really special or just incredible to hear. And she did the same thing this episode. So we're really grateful that she came on and really grateful that we got to talk to her. So without further ado, here is the episode with Shauna. So, Shauna Donnelly Kavanagh, welcome to the podcast. I want to start by asking you this question because I love asking you this question because you always give an honest answer. But how are you doing?

I'm doing really well today. Yeah, today's been a great day. I started out with some DNS with Jordi online and then went for a run and got absolutely saturated. Fabulous, like. And then had a shower and chatting to you.

Preparation for tomorrow. Well done, hopefully.

And when you say fabulous, you're not being sarcastic, are you? You really enjoyed running in the rain.

I had the best morning.

I.

It probably leads into my gratitude, but where I live is right next to the table gardens. So my easy 30 minutes is a laugh. Of the 10 and MCG sirens are going off. There's, you know, not many people around because lockdown and rain, and that was amazing. It feels like.

Yeah. Well, I would normally say I'm really excited for the chat, and I am, of course, really excited, but I was just saying off air that I'm a little bit nervous as well, because this chat could get a little bit emotional. But that's okay. We'll. We'll soldier on. And that's why I love talking to you because you always bring such an honest and authentic energy to the chat. So to start off with, we don't always do this with every guest, but on our norm podcasts, we do do gratitudes. And seeing as you are the gratitude queen, I thought that you would join us for the gratitude. So, dad, you want to kick us off? Firstly, welcome to the episode. And what is your gratitude for the day?

Thanks, Jordan. Welcome, Shauna. And should we be saying that Shauna is my niece and you are cousins? Is that something that's important to get at right from the front? So we do know each other very intimately, and that's why we're so happy that Shawn has actually agreed to come on to tell her story and hopefully inspire some people. So my gratitude's pretty straightforward. A couple of trees fell down around our house last week and seemingly, seemingly all over the Dandenongs where we live, and it meant that our house became pretty useless. Nothing worked, so we had to move out. And I'm really grateful for the care that others showed in allowing us to use their house for a day here and there. And we were a bit nomadic, but eventually one of my wife's girlfriends gave us her whole house to live in for the last four days out of those eight days that we were out of our house. So very grateful for friends who actually care about you and are willing to. And we had so many people offer. So, yeah, I'm so grateful for, you know, for people who, you know, really reach out to you and when you're.

Going through a bit of trauma, that's a great start. Shauna, your gratitude.

Yeah, like I touched on before, I'm just grateful for the area that I live in. We right next to the botanical gardens. Great place to do running, walking, bike riding, and I was just grateful to be out there this morning. It was not great weather, but I feel great, and why not get out there and enjoy any weather? And as I was running past, you know, mcg siren going off there's people rowing around past a couple dogs who were just having the best time. So, yeah, it was a great morning. Grateful to live in my area.

Absolutely love that. And my gratitude is quite simply for Shauna coming on the podcast. I think that every time we have a conversation, I always feel it leaving better than when I started it. And you always just do that in conversation, even if it's a conversation about a negative topic. And, yeah, thank you for coming on and being brave and having this chat and you're very generous with how open you are about the whole process. I think everyone's going to get a lot out of this and I've learned a lot just by chatting to you over the last few years. So that's my gratitude.

Awesome.

Going into today's topic is the theme of today is pretty much perseverance, and Shauna has had the ultimate journey of perseverance so far, and we're going to take it right back to the start. And, Shauna, talk us through the time and pretty much the day that you found out you had cancer.

Yeah, let's get into it. I am probably going to cry, but I'm really okay with what's happened to me. But obviously it's still emotional. In February. There we go. February 2019, I was taken to hospital because I was having all sorts of trouble, just wasn't feeling a. Feeling terrible for about six months. And it kind of culminated in a GP I'd seen doing a CT scan. Turns out my bowels were completely blocked and I needed to go to hospital emergency. So my husband took me to the women's, you know, a couple days of tests, scans, no one knowing what was going on, eventually led to them discovering a tumor on my rectum on the 12th of February. So after that, a few more scans, turned out it was on my spread to my liver and lymph nodes and was a bit of a mess inside my pelvis that was also attached to my uterus and ovaries. So the diagnosis was stage four rectal cancer, you know, bowel cancer or whatever. And not great, obviously. Yeah, I was at the Royal Melbourne for another week or so while they put together a bit of a treatment plan and did a few things just to make sure that I would survive the next little while. So I got a colostomy bag, put in a port line, which is where they would put my chemotherapy through into my body. And, yeah, after about a week or so of being in hospital after being diagnosed, I was sent home and told that we would start treatment in A few weeks. And yeah, that was the start of the most awful year ever.

Yeah.

How. How did you initially react? And how long did it take for it to sink in? And was it. Yeah, the obvious reaction from the start and 10 and then, you know, a few days in a week. Then just take us through that journey of your reaction to the news.

So having been in hospital for a few days, like, we were so naive thinking that everything would be fine. It was just. Lots of ideas are being thrown out there. You know, maybe it's a cyst on my ovaries that was blocking my bowels. Maybe it was a twisted ovary, maybe it was, you know, won't be too graphic, but all sorts of things and things were put inside me and tested and it was very overwhelming. And I remember the day before I actually found out they'd done a blood test to. Which indicates whether you've got cancer like a tumor or not. And this very nice doctor, Dr. Calvin, came in and said, oh, you. The marker is 5, and if it's over 5 or it's 5.9, and if it's over 5, it means you probably got some cancer. And this was the first time anyone had ever said this to me. And at this stage, I could be in hospital for probably a week. No one knowing, no one telling us anything that was going on and could not have imagined that it would have been this sinister. So when he said that, I was a bit shocked. And I was like, okay, well, sure, I can't have cancer. Like, that's not. That's not this. But I was really bloated in the tummy and, like, I was just. I'd stopped eating like six months earlier, so I'd lost a heap of weight and I was just not myself. And then I had to go under sedation so they could do something called a flexi sig to find. Just to go inside my, like, lower intestines to see what's going on. And I wasn't sedated enough during this. And I. That's when I heard them say, oh, look at the size of that tumor. And, you know, being. Being awake and hearing, that's pretty hard. I remember squeezing the anesthesia's hand, like, what? And then she was like, okay, more gas. So put me under. And that was like, awful. And that was like the most horrible thing. And then coming out of that and mum and dad being in the room and me just saying to them, like, I've got cancer. And they were like, what? No, you don't. I was like, No, I do. So then the doctor, you know, the most awful human in the world coming in to tell me that I do have cancer. And he's. He's terrible because the next day. So that day is bad enough, you know, being told you have cancer is horrible. And not at all how I'd imagined I'd ever hear those words. I kind of assumed a bit more of a lead up. I don't know, just. I have a lot of time to bring it in on that. But the following day, the same doctor came back in when I was alone in the hospital. This was so unusual because there was always someone around. And he came in to tell me that it was. His words were so. It's really bad. Don't know what we can do. It's in your liver now. And I just remember staring at him like, you can't. Like, I'm in bed. I've just had surgery. I'm alone.

Like, you're most vulnerable.

Yeah. And he came in with about eight other doctors to tell me that I had stage four cancer. And he. He literally said. I said, what does that mean? And he was like, we're gonna have to suck it and see. Like, we don't. And then he just walked out. And that was pretty bad. So those two moments were like the most shocking moments, I guess. And then it kind of turns into. For me, I went from like, total shock to. To like. I remember you both came in probably that day or that afternoon, and I don't remember being. I was upset about it, but I think we're all just in a bit of shock that this is what's happened to me. And I remember trying to make the environment and the atmosphere bit more, like, energetic and bubbly, like I, you know, Michael had brought in.

It's unlike you to do that.

You know, I was sharing a room with this woman who's lovely, and they kept coming and going because they were just coming in for minor things. But Michael had brought in camp chairs and the nurses had brought us every chair because I kept having, you know, yourselves come in. Mom and dad were there. Every aunt and uncle and cousin I possibly had, you know, people were in my bed with me. And I just remember trying to make the atmosphere a bit lighter. And, like, this sucks that it's gonna be okay. Like, I didn't know that. I had no idea. I still have no idea how I got through it all, but it. It. I never really. I can probably count on my hand how many times I felt woe is me or shit. Like, and it's not many. Out of a whole year of treatment, I very, very rarely went low and sad or depressed or angry. Like, it just. I was scared and shocked and, you know, sad. But I just. It never reached that moment of like, this is the worst.

They're perfectly reasonable feelings to have for any normal human being to feel like, well, this sucks and this is not fair. Look how young I am. Why is this happening to me? And that would be a normal reaction. But it's interesting that you switched straight away from trying to make everybody else happy in the room, and then you almost started your journey straight away.

It's amazing within, you do mention I turned 31 my second or third day of chemotherapy. So I was really young. And that's all people kept saying, like, you're so young. You're so young. That annoyed me a bit because it doesn't make a difference now. Like, you can say it all you want, but I'm. My age isn't going to make a difference to what happens next. You know, my age almost became a thing where they were like, well, we're going to do everything. And lucky for me, everything worked. But you're right. Like, as soon as I remember talking to my brother, who happened to be overseas at the time, and he was like, you know, obviously he was upset and I was upset, and we were just texting one night, and I was like, you know, I'm going to do it. Like, I'm going to beat this. This is not an if or but, like. Or it's a when. Like, when I get over this. Like, we're going to do it. It's just going to take time, and we need to listen to what everyone says. You know, it's overwhelming. Those first few days are just like a whirlwind of learning. And it's the mental side of things. Like when someone tells you that you're sick now, you are sick. Like, up until that point, I had been fairly optimistic that everything was going to be fine. And then you find out, oh, no, things aren't okay. So you reach a bit of a low point in terms of, like, you're what you're capable of. And then suddenly I was, you know, I realized this is going to be a physical challenge. Like, everyone just kept saying, like, it's. They're going to throw everything at you. They're going to give you the maximum chemo, they're going to radiate your body. You know, you're going to have surgeries, you're going to have this. And, like, you just overwhelmed with so much stuff that's about to happen to you. I was, I started to cling on to anything that was controllable. And I guess that's my main, like learning from the whole experience was just trying to control what was controllable.

Yeah. One of the, one of the first few times after that we came in, you, this is very early on. You already had your whiteboard set up. I remember coming in and it was. I can't remember what it said at the top. It was like Shauna's game plan or Shauna beats cancer or something. What did it say? Yeah, and yeah, you just had your daily goal for that day and then kind of your weekly goal and some reminders in a motivational quote. And it was just in typical you fashion, you're one of the most organized people we know. And it was just so well laid out and I was just gobsmacked looking at that. And the beauty of it was you didn't have on there these big plans about beating cancer or really long term things. You just had, what do I need to do today? And sometimes it was as simple as I need to take this, this pill at this time and this pill at 3pm and those were your controllables for the day. And I just found that so amazing that you, the way you were winning in your own head was to just try and win all these small things that you could control in the process.

Mini wins is what we ended up calling them just the whole way along. And it was things that, you know, they're significant, but you laugh at them. I remember the first meeting we had with my oncologist and she said I wouldn't lose my hair. And my brother was on the phone on a. Cal was in the room and he was quite upset at this point. And then he was like, mini, win, keep your hair. This is amazing. And I don't know, like, I. I've generally been a positive person in my life, you know, going through things, but as soon as it just became like, I can't control a lot of this, so what can we do? And I'm a big list fan, so you're right. As soon as we kind of got even when I was in the hospital, it became all right. Every couple hours I need to do a ward lap. And that ward lap became the goal. And you know, I could spend the next two hours asleep lying on my bed or whatever, but it would, you know, the first day it would be like, hey, ward lap. And the ward lap would take me half an hour. And at least that's half an hour of something done. Yeah. So when I was diagnosed, like, all now, I want. Now I want this time. I want more time. I want more time, more days, more years. But in those three days after diagnosis before you have a bit of a treatment plan, all you've got are these long days. And they're terrifying because not only are you now, you're aware of this thing that's grown inside you, and no one's doing anything about it. Like, that blew my mind. I was diagnosed with cancer. I have this 18 centimeter tumor inside me, and you're just going to let me go home? Like I said to my doctor one the day before he sent me home, the loveliest doctor in the world. I said, but aren't I going to die when I just die in the night, like, I'm in hospital, you can check up on me, like you're gonna send me home. And he was like, well, you're not. No, your cancer, you won't die that way. And I think my dad was just mortified that I'd even asked, because it was what everyone was thinking, that you don't say it, but I had to ask him, like, am I just dying now? But so by setting little goals where every hour I would be like, hey, to start the next two hours, I'm going to go for my walk. And that eats up a little bit of time. And then I'll come back and I'll sit in the chair, and I've sat in the chair, and then I get to go to my bed again. And we would all celebrate that, like, yes, you know, you do the ward lap. And then, you know, the next time you do a ward lap, you might do a zigzag walk clap. And suddenly that's, oh, okay, I did the zigzag ward lap. That's good. And then I came home and we got the whiteboard, and it became a bit of like. Yeah. And, you know, naively, we thought. They gave me about five appointments, and we thought, great, I've got five appointments in the next three months. Sounds good. No, turns out you have an appointment, you know, every day, five a day for the first five weeks. So we just ended up scrapping that on the whiteboard and replacing that with, you know, the tick box of what, when to take the drugs and what time. And then it became adding a tick box for Jordi. Came on a couple of my walks with me, just down the street and back again. And that would take us half an hour and it was no more than 100 meters. And Jordi would hold me up. But the whole act of going for the walk meant that I had to put on shoes, I had to put on a hat and then those even so simple as just putting my shoes on was so hard to do because my, my ability was so low that the whole thing like the walk is not just the walk. The walk is getting dressed, the walk is leaving the house, the walk is doing the walk, the walk is coming back, taking off your shoes and the rest. And that was a goal, that was a win. And I did that.

And then being exhausted after that as.

Well, and then being totally exhausted and sitting on the couch. But that routine and the rhythm of that you're able to build out. Personally, I was able to build on each day. So, you know, I still go for a walk every day, but the walk is now an hour, not five minutes. And the, you know, going in that routine helped me, particularly in those early days when I was just so, wasn't angry at my body, but I was so let down by it because I've always been a really healthy, quote, person who ate well, exercised, you know, it just was unfortunate.

I actually wanted to touch on that point next and set the context of kind of where you were compared to getting to that. That point of what you would feel is rock bottom with your body where the maximum you can do is 100 meter walk. And you know, you're pretty much a pillar of health. Before this, you were so focused on your health. You're in such a good routine, you prioritize sleep, you ate really well, you exercised, you've been a runner your whole life. So to go from that to this was such an extreme contrast. I want to actually ask, what does being healthy mean to you? And it might have been a different answer before this and it might have changed throughout the whole process, it might be different now. But what does being healthy mean to you?

It's definitely changed. So pre cancer health to me was ticking. Those what we see marketing goals. So have your green smoothie. So pre cancer, I was a teacher. I am a teacher, but I was a full time teacher. And I would exercise like, you know, wake up at quarter to six, do the boot camp, get home, shower, make my juice, get to work, sip on my juice all morning while I'm preparing for school, teaching the kids, you know, have a banana at recess, walk at lunch. And that was what I thought was healthy. I was rushing between things and classes and doing the stuff. I was doing it, but was I actually, I was running on such high adrenaline and I was so stressed all of the time and I never focused on any one thing. I was doing a million things at once. But that's what healthy was to me. I was ticking the boxes. I was eating what I thought I should be eating. Then when I got sick, everything needed to go out the window because I had a stoma bag which needed a particular diet. I'd lost so much weight that I needed to eat a lot of calories to get back to something healthy. And that meant, you know, eating a lot of high density foods that had a lot of calories in them. And every mouthful needed to count. But on top of that you're nauseous and unwell from the chemo. So I found myself eating twisties because the cheese just helped so much. And you know, these I have. I couldn't have anything cold because of my taste buds in my hand. So a lot of like warm custard and, you know, warm milk. And I don't really have a lot of milk anymore, but I was eating a lot of foods that deemingly seemed unhealthy. But I knit like I needed anything to get through. And I sort of promised to myself last year that when I was going through it that I wouldn't fall back into those habits. I didn't want to just do the things. I wanted to really embrace what my body needed. So now health to me is actually do this thing quite a bit. And it's listen, observe, trust, patience. So before anything, before any decision I make, before any food I eat, before any run, I give myself a moment to listen to my body and observe my body and really think, like, what do I actually want right now? You know, within reason. I'll, you know, I often start with a green smoothie skill, but now I actually get to sit down and enjoy the green smoothie. And the process of drinking it is wonderful. And I get to eat it. I think one thing we can touch on as well, like getting to do things rather than having to do things. So I get to wake up every morning and I get to meditate in the morning. It's the other thing. Like before cancer, I was meditating, but I was ticking that box 10 minutes a day. Do the app. I didn't do it. I just. The timer was on and I was, I ticked the meditation box and now I wake up every morning and I crave the 20 minutes in bed guided meditation. And then I'll journal for 10 minutes and then I'll move into a Bit of yoga. Sometimes I'll move into no yoga and I'll just go for my run. Like, health to me is about the rhythm of my body and really listening and acknowledging what I need every day.

Being present to all these activities.

Yeah. And rather than being rigid and like, you know, I've got structure that helps me maintain this, but it's. Yeah, it's about listening and learning and observing what my body needs and what at that moment, it's actually asking for, rather than just saying, no, no. Monday to Friday, we eat like this, we do this exercise, we walk this far. You know, I'm terrible for someone who used to 10, 000 steps. If I haven't done them, you'd find me up and down the stairs. What. What am I doing? You know. So, yeah, that's what health is to me. It's about listening to my body and learning what it needs.

That's why you're the gratitude queen, because you get to do everything, not have to.

I'm just saying, listening. It's really intriguing that, you know, you seem like you love plan and love structure and that seems to be your mantra and that's what you were like. And now you still have planning and structure in your life, but now you take moments to question whether this is right for me for this particular time of the day. And you're quite happy to be flexible. That seems to be what I'm hearing. Is that right?

Yeah, 100%. So I still would prefer to do my run in the morning and ride in the morning because of my other issues that have come up from cancer. I need to get my exercise out of the way before the afternoon. But it's okay if it doesn't. If I don't leave it 7, 10 for the run at 7:15. And you know, it's okay to wait a bit longer and see what happens. And it's okay if this day I didn't eat as many vegetables. Like, it just. You've got to listen to what your body is saying. And I didn't listen to my body for six months and I ended up with stage four cancer. And I. It didn't have to be that bad. And I don't have the ability to go back and change anything. And so I have to live with the choices I made. And it wasn't bad enough, obviously in my head to go to the doctor earlier, but when something is progressively getting worse and you're so structured and it doesn't fit, then it almost causes more stress. So, you know, I. I basically Stopped eating in December of 2018 and I was sleeping all day. It was school holidays. So you just think, well, I'm tired from school and I'm tired from this and that and there's so many excuses. And you know, I like sleep and I enjoy a restful day, but it's not normal for a 30 year old to be, you know, doing a run in the morning and then having to sleep all day. That's not, that's not listening to your body. Like, if I go for a long run now on a Sunday, I just ran 15km on Saturday, which was the most amazing thing in the entire world. And I didn't need to sleep all day. I could still do what I needed to do and that again, just because I'm flexible and because I'm going with what my body needs at the time rather than what I need have to do. You know, your whole mindset changes. I get to wake up every morning and I get to go for a run. So it rained today. Who cares?

So.

So do you find that the now your thought process is that you have plans and structure, but now you have options, whereas before you didn't allow yourself to have options, you were just regimented in the planning and structure. Does that seem to be the difference? So talking a bit more balance maybe with your outlook on how to function each day.

Yeah. And not like, I mean, a bit of a privileged position at the moment where I'm not working full time. So I have got mornings to set myself up for greatness, which is what I kind of say to myself in the morning. Like I would wake up during the cancer year and it would be, oh, great, I'm awake. Oh, I've got cancer because I've got bottles hanging off me, I've got stoma bags, I've got wee bags, I've, you know, I haven't really slept. And then you just have this moment of like, got cancer. And I would try to push that out of the way sometimes, but then sometimes my psych and I just work through like we just sit with it for a minute. Sit with that felon cake. You've got cancer, but what can you do right now? So, all right, let's sit here for a bit and have some quiet time. Maybe put on some quiet music, see how that feels. So in five minutes, see how you feel then. And then, okay, you're feeling a bit more in control. Let's try and do a bit of stretching and see how that goes. So pop on a yoga video. You know, you wake up Every morning, having gone through chemo during that week, and your body's stiff and sore, and every day you wake up and it is stiff and sore. Like you've run a marathon the day before and your body has just been beat down. But, you know, five minutes of gentle stretching. Okay, now I'm feeling a bit looser and I'm starting to feel like myself again. Now I have a choice, like, do I want to try and go for the walk or do I want to get on the bike? Because I bought an exercise bike. Let's just put on the clothes, walk down the stairs and see how I feel. And suddenly the rhythm is moving and you're kind of a part of it. And that's what I've taken into this year. It's like, no, I don't wake up every morning and want to do a hard running session, but I don't have to get out of bed and go do it straight away. Like, I can get up. I set my alarm for quarter to six and it gives me get up, grab my phone, come back into bed and do some lying down meditating. And so after 20 minutes of calm breathing, suddenly, all right, I'm feeling a bit more awake. And then I've got. I might grab my journal, write down what I've been thinking or feeling or whatever. And by doing that, it gets out all those other emotions of, like, I can write in there, like, damn, can't be bothered running today. But I've said it, I'm still going to do it, because I will, because I'm dedicated. Or maybe there's something else going on in my head that I just need to get to get out. And then, okay, now it's, you know, I've been waiting for half an hour. I might do some yoga. And now I'm feeling ready and like, I'm in the right mindset of I'm going to go for a run and it's going to be wonderful. And if it's not wonderful, it's an hour of my life and I get to come back and have a shower and have a great breakfast.

Like, is it ever not wonderful, though?

I mean, last week there was one session where I didn't love it. Actually, this week I didn't love a session. But again, like, something has when you switch from, like, I have to do this to I get to do this. Suddenly it's an. It's a positive thing. Like, I get to go. Like, yesterday, I honestly didn't. I left the house for a bike ride, came back and I had no motivation to leave the house again. But once I got out, I just felt my shoulders, like, fall, and my eyes, I could see, like, the beautiful colors of autumn and winter. And then you're reminded of why I actually love going outside, and I want to do it. You've just got to get yourself out there.

So I want to touch on this theme of motivation and dedication, what you're talking about soon. But let's take it back a little bit to kind of the post cancer journey. So obviously you survived, which is a miracle in itself, and you're here in front of us, and that can't take away from the year from hell you had. You know, we're skipping over a lot of hell here, but you did make it to the end. From that moment where that doctor said, you know, we'll just have to suck it and see to, um, to coming out of it. Um, but even then, a lot of people might hear, oh, she's. She survived. Like, she made it good. Like, life goes on. But really, you're at a point where you're the weakest your body's ever been, the most unfit, probably feeling the most unhealthy because you've just been through a year of chemo and you have to start from scratch. So how do you. How do you start that journey from, you know, potentially the lowest point you've ever been at, even though it's great that you've got no cancer anymore, really starting from. From the bottom.

So I finished treatment in January of 2020, and I didn't set a lot of big goals, so I would lie, like, in hospital, you know, and everyone knows the story. It's a movie where the person has cancer and then they run a marathon or they climb Everest or they, you know, ride their bike around Australia. Like, I don't. I didn't want to do that. No harm to those people who do. But I. I didn't want to counter what I'd done with something huge just because what I'd been through was so terrible. And I didn't want the huge goal to take me back to that place where I was so focused on the outcome of, if I do this, then I'll be this. I really wanted to be happy with me and find that health and fitness every day rather than trying to get a massive goal, I guess. So we finished, and what I was capable of was walking. And I could walk till the cows come home. I would walk for hours every day. And I enjoyed it because I could cook a podcast on by this Stage I once had finished, I got my confidence back in terms of leaving the house independently. I still had a stoma bag, so I wasn't able to do anything high intensity. I tried that once and I ended up with a hernia. And that was one of the many, many problems with my treatment. So I couldn't do anything physical in terms of like running or jumping or switching swimming or anything high intensity. So in my mind, I would. The only goal I set myself was to be able to run five kilometers. And I set that as a goal at the start of 2020. And I thought if by the end of 2020 I could run consistently 5k, then I would be so proud of myself. And I didn't really have any idea of how I would get there. I just knew that once I got my stoma reversed, then I could start to have a bit more structure in terms of running and things. So initially, for the first couple months of 2020, it was just walking all the time. And then we had the exercise bike still. So Jared had given me a couple sessions. And honestly, the first few weeks was like three minutes. And I would get off the bike and be huffing and puffing like I had. And it was. It was so hard. Like I. I could not everything hurt from sitting on the bike, and it was hard. Like I was really unfit. But again, like, I got to wake up every morning and do that. So I'd sit on the bike in the morning for three minutes, and then I'd go for a walk for an hour, come back, do some stretching, do some of Jordi's DNS stuff, which helped immeasurably because he was able to tailor it. I had really sore hands and I couldn't support my weight, so I had to do. I did a bit of that after my running, after my walking, and then I would do that in the afternoon again. So I'd sit out in the morning and then three minute bike and then our walk and then stretching. And that was my routine for a few weeks. And then I would build up and, you know, three minutes would go to four minutes and then five minutes and then 10 minutes of bike riding. Still keeping the walking the same, still keeping that stretching the same. And I kind of realized, and I think Jared and I talked about this, like, you can only change one variable at a time. There's no point in changing. Like, I'm not going to get much more value out of walking for an hour and a half than I am for an hour. So let's do a bit more on the bike a bit longer and suddenly, you know, after a few weeks I was doing 15 minutes twice a day and it wasn't much of a sweat. It wasn't. It was just moving my body again and getting used to that feeling of being like, oh, I'm out of breath. But that's okay because I was so terrified of any change. When you finish treatment, they. You stop seeing the doctors and the surgeon. You know, every. I saw them every week for a year and then suddenly you don't see them and for three months and it was. And then we were in Covid so you see them on telehealth and it was terrifying to be left alone. So we just slightly like changed a few variables. So sometimes it would be do like five 1 minute efforts, five 30 second efforts on the bike and just getting me more comfortable being uncomfortable again in that situation. And then I was lucky enough to get my stoma reversed. So that was another surgery. But it meant that I now was able to start doing a bit more high intensity stuff. And I just started one day I went for a walk again. I'm going to keep mentioning Jordi Moncry from the other your podcast a few weeks ago, but him and I talked a lot about if I'm going to start running again. I'm starting from zero. I'm starting like someone who has never run before.

And look, Georgia, Shawna, we've got to tell everybody that you were a track and field, you know, bit of a star as, as a, as a student at school and you know, ran an Olympic park and eight hundreds and fifteen hundreds. So we're talking about someone who actually could run very efficiently and successfully at a high level. So here we are now at rock bottom. So I just want to put that in perspective for everybody.

Thanks. Yeah, I used to be able to run before this. I would take for granted going for a 20 minute run for no reason. And I, I could automatically do it, but suddenly I needed to relearn how to run again. And it was relearning because I hadn't lifted my foot above a shuffle for a year. I hadn't walked with any briskness for a year. I hadn't, you know, bounced. I hadn't done high knees, I hadn't done anything of any running pattern for so long that it truly hurt. And not in like a way that I was injured, but I was working muscles that I had just never worked before. I had such muscle wastedness that I was having to actually build up muscles again. And we. So I spoke to Jordy Moncrief about it. And he sent me kind of these running moment running movement patterns that I would take my shoes off and go to the oval and just do like four 10 meter drills. And it would be, you know, like just walking slowly and then high knees, not fast, but just like slow and controlled high knees. And then maybe he called them geisha walks, where you just like slowly tipping your toes along the 10 meters and then just walk back and do it again a couple times. And I did that two or three times a week. And you know, my feet hurt, my calves hurt, my quads hurt, but it was like a good sore. It was like these muscles are re engaging again. I had to work hard with strength and conditioning coach because my pelvic floor was so low, it was so broken, I guess I would have accidents every time I tried to do anything active. So, you know, pairing it back again and focusing on just the movement and the motion and then just being really proud of that. Like, sometimes it would be, you know, 10 meters and then the next time it'll be 20 meters and sometimes it will be 8 reps at 10 meters, sometimes it will be 10 reps at 4, 40 meters, like, and just enjoying it and having fun and just reminding myself, you know, last week you couldn't do this, this week you can. And little, little, little goals that more mini wins. So many mini wins. And I wanted it to be, I wanted to be able to run and I wanted to be at a run freely. I wanted to be able to run whenever I wanted because, you know, I still can't break into a run now. I have to warm up to it. I think my body is just so used to that lethargic feeling of like, I don't know, but like something inside me doesn't allow me just to break into a sprint straight away. And knowing that I still do all these warm ups now, like, I still go to the oval before my run on a Monday and a Wednesday and take my shoes off. And instead of it being, you know, 20 or 30 meters, it's a whole lap of the overall warm up running drills. So, you know, it just slowly but surely I built up those sort of little efforts. And one day I remember I was talking to someone and I just thought, you know, I might just do a little one minute jog and see what happens. Shoes off. And I did it. And I just like burst into tears on the oval. Like, how did I just run for one whole minute? That was unbelievable. And I remember dancing. I could turn to my Music up and I just danced to Lady Gaga and like in the middle of the oval because I was so proud of myself. I'd done a minute of running and that gave me enough and then I followed up with my, my walk and I came back and I stretched and I kept all that routine. And so then a couple days later I went back to the same oval and I was like, oh, I'm going to do two one minute runs today. And then I did that and I was like, then my head was like, oh, you can do five minutes. And then I come like pull it back. Remember what our goal is. And our goal this week or this day is just to be able to run a couple one minute efforts. And I still didn't let myself believe that I could do the, the big goal and the big five kilometer goal because I didn't want to skip all those other steps. I had this unique opportunity to learn again how to and run and I, I wanted it to be that. I didn't want to, to miss those moments because you know, I call it like it was my reliving year, I got to relive everything. And what a magical opportunity to start running again. So over a few weeks, you know, the, the runs went from one minute to a couple times. I did a two minute run and then I did like a five minute run and then suddenly I was doing a ten minute run and then I was still going, I was still walking to the oval, shoes off, doing the warm up. The slow running pattern kept it all the same, just changed that particular run and then Melville went into lockdown for that big one and I, it's the only time I've really set a silly, not a silly goal, but like a bigger goal than just the 5k was I wanted to be able to ride the Capital City Trail and it's about 32km and I had a three speed bike with a basket and it wasn't good. Obviously my uncle and my dad, you know, everyone wants, as soon as you say you're going to be a bike, you know, ride bike, they'll get you a bike. And I said I don't want a bike until I can ride this silly trail. So then I started incorporating a bit of riding outside. So one, the first ride I did outside was 20 minutes and I got 10 minutes down and 10 minutes back and it was really hard because riding outside is very different to riding on just an exercise bike. But suddenly over a few months I've built up running three days a week. I'd built up Riding twice a week and then just keeping everything else the same but slowly tweaking other bits. And then one day I ran for 20 minutes and again I cried. Like I cried a lot of the time when I finish running because I can't believe I'm here. So. And then I did the Capital City trail bike ride one random Saturday on my three speed bike and it took us two hours and it was great. We had like husband and I had a great time and once I finished that, you know, 20 minute run, I'd run a 5k a few weeks later and I was so elated that I text Jared said, I think, and I think it must have been, what was it, September or October?

Yep, it was actually August.

Oh, there you go. And I, and I did I say I wanted to run 10k at the end of the year. And so once I'd reached that 5k goal much sooner than I had ever thought and it came easier than not easier in terms of like there was a lot of build up to it, but actually doing the run, it wasn't like going from 0 to 5k. It was six months of every day, little, little steps. And so when I actually did the run it wasn't going from zero to nothing. It was going from, I just ran 24 minutes the other day. Let's see if I can extend it to, you know, 26, 27, 28 and see what happens if I can run five kilometers. You know, I never ran up Anderson Street Hill until I think this year, year again because that was too much. But you can. I could find 5k around. And then I did get excited and then I did say, all right, I'm going to run 10k by the end of the year. And I thought Jared would give me, you know, a 10 week plan, intensity, duration, do these three big runs a week for 10 weeks and you'll be fine. And Jared called me and was like, I will give you some sessions but you've got to do it my way. And your way has been incredible because like you talk about a lot. It's about consistency, it's about duration, patience and patience. And then once you've got those things, a few things few months later, then you can start to add in intensity. And that's what I needed. I just, I had consistency in terms of the structure of my week. So now we could add in some duration and just having a bit more structure I like. But it just took the pressure off me having to motivate myself in terms of like setting goals and plans. I Just leave that to you and just. I just have to turn up every day and do it.

It's quite incredible, though, for everybody to hear how slowly you progressed yourself. And your patience was incredible. And anybody who's competitive knows that that is painstakingly tough mentally to just go one minute and then add overload of one more minute and do this for five weeks. You know, look, it is amazing that you were able to be so dedicated to the process and not worry too much about down the track about, you know, getting to that 10k or 5k, which it was. And, you know, for you to contact me and say, I'm ready to do this now, you know, I've done the patient thing, and then to hear someone tell you back that, no, you have to keep doing the patient thing the whole time must have been so annoying and so frustrating. But looking back now, what you did before you contacted me was exactly that, and that was what worked. That's why it worked, because you. You kept that overload going at a slow rate. And. And then when you wanted to be more serious, which is what you thought when you were contacting me, that things would change, that would be. Would be going, right, now we're going to throw the kitchen sink at it. Well, that's not how it worked. And now you know that what you were doing before was actually the right way. You. You had already done that process yourself. You just needed a little bit more guidance about how to step to the next level. And, and that's what people need to hear here, is that you just can't go from zero to hero. It doesn't work that way, and it never will. And if you do that, you will fail along that way. And. And that's one of the big things I think I learned from helping you, was exactly that. That taught me so much about patience. And of course, you have to be motivated. But your dedication to the task was what astounded me that you could be so patient with this slow progress. And, you know, you were wanting to do so much more, but I was all the time holding you back, and, and you just trusted the process. So. So, you know, everybody needs to hear that, even, you know, especially when you're coming from. From a low base, you know, and there are other people out there who've got a really good training base, but you still just can't go to where you want to be. You know, it's the journey.

Yeah, exactly. Right. Because we. We love this lesson so much because we do get athletes come to us, and they want to get this result in 12 weeks, or they go, get me this fit in the next 20 weeks. And if more people had your patience, they would probably get better results because they don't stuff themselves up by trying to do too much and then going backwards. You know, had you just dived into some things earlier, you might not have made the 5k by the end of the year because you would have kept putting yourself backwards so many times. Whereas because you were so patient, you actually. That was probably the fastest way to actually get there. That's a really powerful lesson.

Yeah, I was really worried about injury. Like, I've never been someone who gets injured, I think, because when you start running and being so active as a kid, for me, it worked that I just always had such a good base. I was pretty flexible. I could, you know, run and jump and throw and whatever. And it was. I never had injuries as a kid or as a 20 year old. And when I was starting again, I was very aware that my body was not what it was before it had been broken and put back together. And I had, yeah, like, a great chance to be patient. And, you know, I remember when, Jared, you first sent me that session, like, the first week, it was so slow on a Monday morning for, like 20 minutes. Come on. Like, I've just proved to you that I can run, so let's do it. And I listened to what you said and I had to trust what you were going to say because, like, you and I kept talking about. It wasn't that I had an event in 10 weeks that I needed to run for. It was life that I was preparing for. And I want to be able to run. Like, I think Jordi and I talked about this a lot when I was sick. Like, I just want to. Oh, do you want to go for a run tomorrow? Sure, let's go. Like, do you want to go for a bike ride? Yes, I want to be able to say yes to this stuff. And that, to me, coming back to your previous question, like, about health, like, I want to be able to go for a swim in the ocean. I want to be able to meet up for a friend and go for a jog around the town and not have to think about it and it not be a process and a worry. And I've reached that point where I'm so happy running and I'm so happy bike riding that I can't imagine. Like, yeah, it's probably like a little less. It's not as hard as what I thought it was going to be. Like, some of the sessions are hard, but it's really simple. Like you just consistently train a few days a week. Like I've had friends similar time to me a year and a half ago say, yeah, like I'm going to do that too. I'm going to start running again and they'll do it and bless them. I love hearing about it but it's, oh yeah, I did that 5k run 3 days ago but I'm pretty sure like I'm not going to run again until next week or they'll go hard three, three days in a row and then have the rest of the week off. And I now can, you know, run almost 40k a week bike riding twice a week and I'm not sore. I don't wake up and I can't do it every day. It's. I'm fine, I can run. I can.

Yeah, you hit that 10k reasonably quickly as well before the year was up. And in fact, like you just said before, you ran your first 15k over the weekend, which would have just been so exciting. How's that feeling now? And you've been running five kp PBS left, right and center. You've just been getting faster and faster. So how's that all feeling now?

Yeah, it feels amazing. I hit 10k without really meaning to. Like we, I say it's easy, like it's simple, it's not easy. The simplicity of the training and like I talk about Tri Valley till the cows come home, but the simplicity of knowing like that you just have to turn up and do this run. It's an easy pace so that you can just go out and enjoy it and just run, run light and run easy and then you get a chance to push a bit more in a couple sessions or you might get a chance to run a bit longer on a Sunday. So there's always an opportunity to test yourself in that way. And my Sunday run started out at, you know, 30 minutes and then 35 minutes and then 40 minutes and then 50 minutes and then one session I just ran 10 kilometers and I talked the whole time to Michael and it was like, you know, at the end of every run we were high fiving and like jumping up and down because it was, you know, this is the longest run I'd done. And then, yeah, around 10. Like it didn't feel like I thought it was. I didn't feel so tired, like pre cancer. Anytime I'd gone for a long run, I would honestly sleep the rest of the day because it took a lot out of me and I was pushing myself in the wrong way. I wasn't working at that optimal, you know, anaerobic or aerobic capacity. It was hard. And now I can run 10k a couple times a week in different sessions. I'm not worried about breaking times or, you know, pbs. I'm just running at a consistent and comfortable pace and then slightly pushing it a bit for whatever the session calls for. And then, you know, Sunday, I ran for an hour and 22 minutes and I ran 15 kilometers. And I know I did it because I'm present for it and I'm here for it and I document it. But it's truly unbelievable that, you know, 18 months ago I had the biggest surgery of my entire situation, like journey. It was a bowel resection where they took out the tumor and all the damaged bits. I had a hysterectomy, I had my ovaries removed. I had my colostomy turned into an ileostomy. I had a catheter put in for the next eight weeks because that was all damaged too. And I couldn't walk out of hospital. I had to get a wheelchair and I couldn't do anything. And that was probably the lowest point of my entire life, was lying in bed after that surgery and just thinking, what is the point? I'm done. This is horrible. And, you know, I was recovering really slowly and it was, you know, I couldn't do anything that I enjoyed walk or meditate or yoga. Anything that I built into a system to help me survive was effectively gone at that point. And to have come from that point to last weekend, 18 months later, cancer free, running 15 kilometers, you know, I'm not anyone special because I genuinely started from the lowest of the low, the perspective.

It's just incredible to remember back. And that's what we want to do a lot in. And we should do it. We should look at where we've come from on our journeys the whole time. And it keeps putting perspective. You know, when you can't walk for more than a minute and now you can run for an hour and 22, it doesn't matter about how quick you did it, but you can actually function to whatever you want to do. And you've epitomized that incredibly. And your ability just to follow 100% the program and not deviate and not do your version of it and trust the process and not get sore and not have to have days off to recover because you did your version of stuff that I'm gonna run harder today and know that there are days when you can push yourself. And that's the day to do it, and today's not the day. And then now the day is to do it. And great. It's fun. I've put a smile on my face because actually I'm huffing and puffing more than I have before. But to gradually let your body absorb more and more load as a journey, that's what. That's what you've experienced, and that's why you've got to this end point. And it's not the end point. This is where you've got to right now. And there'll be more successes along the journey as you progress and whether you want to go further. And you know, you've smashed your 5k PB to please from 30 minutes to 25. Now you're below 25 minutes. I think you're in 23. 23. You know, the sky's the limit. But that's not the important thing. The important thing is actually the process of each day, each hour, and focusing on that. And that's what you do so really well. And you're a shining example to. We coach a lot of people over the years, and not many people have the dedication to it that you have and the patience and. And that's something you should be incredibly proud of, I think. And that makes me very emotional.

We said that at the start that it would get to this point. I was going from.

No, you go, oh, no.

I was about to say, I was so involved in the story and the podcast that I'm stunned for words. So I don't really have anything to say.

Yeah. And look, I don't want to stop there because it is important to get across that. You know, we set challenges and goals in our lives all the time, and they're important. You know, you can't not have that. That's what gets me out of bed. If my goal was just to be healthy, I don't think I could get out of bed and go train. So you put challenges in front of yourself that you aspire to, to make you go through the journey. And we just think that the end goal is what the purpose is, but it's not. It's the actual journey and experiencing that, and that's what's more important. And that's. I think, what I think I've learned from you, going through that with you is not focusing on the finish or the end result, but. But really, you know, focusing on what you can control every day and being happy and enjoying that experience. I think, and I know I'M struggling to get this out. But it's a real important lesson that everybody should take in their life to make sure that they're not pushing themselves so much to the end point. And you will have, as you've experienced PBS because of what you were focusing on each day, which was important, and as the end result is, you improve. That's what happens. You can't help but improve because you're doing everything right each day. You won't not improve. That's just not going to happen. You will get better because you're doing what's happening each day, in each moment. And at the end of the journey, which is might be just a campaign to reach 5K, you did it not because you focused on that 5K, but because you focused on how to get to the 5k and you pushed yourself to 10k and now you've got 15k and I'm just trying to get across. It's not that end goal, it's how you get to that end goal that's the euphoria. And on the day, it's so enjoyable to experience it. And you think, oh, it didn't seem that hard, but it was hard. It was really hard. And people say, how do you get motivated each day to keep doing that? Well, you said something before we got on air which was, you know, you hit the nail on the head. You have dedication to the journey. You have motivation as well, but without the dedication. Because it's hard. The journey's hard. There's easy bits and hard bits and comfortable bits and not uncomfortable bits. And if everybody thinks it's all going to be easy, then they're in for a shock because you have to be dedicated to keep doing it. And that I think I'm trying to summarize how Shauna has gone about her everyday journey of what her life began. The minute she got out that news, she started a new journey in her life. And it's because of your dedication to what you're doing has made you be able to achieve so much.

Talk to us about what dedication means to you, because Dad's right off air. We asked you what do you want listeners to get from this chat, this episode? And you said that you have motivation, but, yeah, that's not enough, that you need dedication as well. So talk to us about what dedication means.

I think, in any sense, like, whatever you want to achieve, whether it's work or, you know, relationships or running or anything. Motivation is what starts you like. That's the. You want to do it, but it only Gets you so far because there's going to be days when you wake up and it's raining, or it's didn't sleep very well or you ate something like that before. And it means, like, you feel heavy and you don't feel like it. But I. I don't give myself the chance to. It's not a yes or a no to me dedication. It's like I'm doing it whether I do it now or when I do it in a little bit of time. And it's not always going to feel good. It's not always going to look pretty, and it's not always going to be exactly how you wanted it to be. But I'm dedicated to it because I know that I want to do it. And so, you know, like I said before, like, I wake up and on a Monday I normally have to get up and go pretty quickly because I've got to go to work. So I don't have a lot of time to consider whether I want to go for my run or not. I just kind of wake up and I know I'm going to do it, and that's just it. But then the other days I have a bit of play time where I can make myself either find the motivation to go, I'm gonna go anyway, because I'm dedicated to this. And in my mind, I've always been a pretty, you know, consistent person and not a lot of excuses come my way. And it's not that I. You know, people have all sorts of reasons for not being able to do stuff, but I think back to when I had, you know, bags and bottles attached to me and I could still go for a walk. And I would go for my walks and think to myself, when I don't have these, it's going to be like, think about how free it's going to feel to go. I don't want to waste that. So I used to, you know, during chemo time, I have to plan when I'd wash my hair. It's so silly, but, like, when you have things attached to you very inconvenient to wash your hair. And so I washed my hair on a Sunday night and a Thursday because that was when I didn't have the bowl attached to me. And now I can wash my hair whenever I want. And it's so simple. But, like, that little reminder then pulls into everything else. Like, okay, well, I can run whenever I want, I can bike ride whenever I want. What about I just do it and then it's done and then I Will, you know, reap the rewards of hopefully tomorrow running really fast in my 5k or, or not. If I, you know, option B, like you were talking about the other day, maybe it doesn't go so well, but that's okay. I've like, done it every day. I've put myself in the best situation possible to achieve whatever goal it is.

So it's absolutely brilliant. And you both said it in different ways. It's. The simplicity is so profound and it is such simple lessons, but not easy to apply. I want to finish by asking a couple of last questions. Second last one is, what does running mean to you now?

Oh, running. Well, I love any amount of running. So running to me is 30 minutes this morning, easy. You know, when I started running again, I wore headphones and I thought that's what I would do because that's what everyone seems to do these days. And so over the last few months I've been trying to undo that because it, the feeling of running is so freeing. And to block out the world with my headphones in kind of counteracts that. Like, I still can't do my hour 20 run without something because I am a little attached to it. But any run under an hour 20, I can go out free run. I am laughing like I did park run a few weeks ago. And the photos of me, I'm laughing and waving and running as fast as I possibly can, but having the best time. And I think that's what I want. I can get, like everyone does, anxious and nervous about time trials and goals and things. And I know they're important, so I want to do them, but I want them to not have as much value. I don't want them to be my whole value. I don't want my worth to be sucked into a number. So that's why I quite like running. I'm trying to put myself in that situation where I just enjoy running. Just go for a run. It's okay. An hour 20, an hour 30 minutes. Like, it's just a run tomorrow. Just run. I'm going to run fast tomorrow. I'm going to see how fast I can go. But it doesn't matter. It does. Like, there is. It is not life or death. There is nothing bad or good that will come of my run tomorrow. Like, I want it to be freeing, I want it to be fun and I want it to feel good. So that's what it does for me.

Now that's truly amazing. And usually the last question we ask guest is, what's a life lesson? You've learned in the last 12 months that you'd like to pass on to others. You've already given us more life lessons that we could ever ask for in a podcast, but I guess I'll rearrange the question a little bit. And what do you want to leave the listeners on with this chat? What would you want them to take home? I guess as a summary from this chat, what message would you like to pass on?

I think I just want everyone to know that they are capable of more than they know, but they need to be patient and they need to be dedicated. So it's one thing to want to do something, and I've got plenty of people who want to run and want to do this and want to do that, but reframe it. Ask yourself what you get to do every day and how can you get to your goal in a way that suits you and you can manage?

Perfect. Any last words from you, dad?

Yeah, just following on what you just said there, Shauna. When something's taken away from you, does that give it more purpose and value when you can do it again? Is that what you've found?

Yeah. So I've always been a runner and I've always been able to run and to not. And you know, towards the end of my 20s, I was not running well, but I could still do it. If you wanted me to go for a run, I could do it. And then to not be able to do it, to not be able to leave the house without a someone walking me and all of my stuff just in case, and not being able to go far or fast or free. It really makes you value what you can do once you're able to. And that's why I'll always remind myself, like, at the end of each run, like, you just did that. And it's not a matter of, like, I literally can leave the house with shoes, shorts and a top on and my watch and it's okay. Like, there is no one waiting for me. There is no one who needs to hold my hand. I'm not going to fall in a heap. Like, yeah, it's pretty. It's pretty amazing to have had lost that choice and now to have the choice again to do it. And I can choose to do it or not to do it, and I just choose to do it.

Perfect. Shauna, thank you so much for coming on, for blessing us with your presence. It was really courageous and generous of you to come on here and openly tell your story and not hold anything back and be really vulnerable. So thank you so much. I had goosebumps most of the story. And I think it is really a testament to you that throughout this whole process, you were the one dealing with all this, yet you seem to be the strongest one. And I think that really. Yeah, it was funny for the whole entire family watching you go through this. I think everyone ironically drew strength from you, which was just so, so weird. It should be the other way. Everyone should be giving you strength. But I remember not knowing how to feel in the hospital and watching you and every time I would see you, yeah, Being really scared for you, and then you would. You would be stronger in your emotions about it. And I think that's just. Yeah, that's probably why mentally you were so good to this whole thing and why you've been mentally so good in the post journey and why you've been able to achieve what you have. So thank you very much for joining us. I absolutely love this episode. I'm sure everyone has too, and we'll leave it there. Thanks everyone for listening. We'll see you next time. Sam.