The Training and Racing Strategies of Lucas Hamilton

And do you do weights part of your training program?

Yes, I do a lot of gym. Yeah. Yep. Um, you can't tell, but. But no, I do. I do do a lot of gym because I. Especially over this period in the off season. Just because. Yeah, I find that helps a lot actually, to be honest. That should be. My answer is probably gym.

Cool.

This podcast is brought to you by Tribalo Coaching, where we help triathletes and cyclists like you train smarter to race faster. I'm your host, Jordan Donnelly, and on my left is former Australian Ironman champion and head coach of Trivelo coaching, Jared Donnelly.

Lucas Hamilton is a 27 year old Australian cyclist who currently rides for UCI World Tour team and our Australian pro team, Jayco Alula. Since joining the World Tour team in 2018, he has already achieved some impressive results competing in all three major Grand Tours and placing an impressive 13th in the 2022 Duro. He also finished fourth in Paris Nice in 2021 and won a stage in Toreno Adriatico in 2020, proving his talent, not only mixing it in with, but beating the best riders in the world. In this podcast episode recorded just before the Tour down under and after the Australian Road Nationals race last month in January, we dive deep into the mental strategies and insights of a top athlete. Lucas shares his experience from competing at the highest level, including what it takes to bounce back from setbacks and maintain peak performance. And part of this interview is an exclusive post race analysis of the Australian Road Nationals race where Lucas had a very impressive showing, but despite a few obstacles that impacted his results. In the day, we get to hear detailed insights about race tactics, about the mental challenges that athletes face mid race and how they can cope with them. And we really get a behind the scenes picture of how Australia's best athletes were tactically competing against each other on the day. And every athlete dreams of winning the national title and wearing the Australian jersey for the year. This is why it was such an incredible opportunity to chat with Lucas Hamilton just after the race. One thing we've really learned on this.

Podcast is that every athlete is different.

And everyone has different things that work for them. But most importantly, there are multiple ways to perform your best as an athlete.

And for example, dad and I, we.

Definitely go about training and racing a little differently. Of course we do many of the things the same. We hope that by providing interviews like this from professional athletes, you can find things that you like and that suit you and your personality and your nuances and understand the things that you don't like doing and listen to some things that professional athletes might do that don't suit you. And so a big thanks to Lucas for doing this interview right before the Tour Down Under. I was able to fire some questions at him about his personal training and racing preferences, his nutrition and more. So be sure to look out for his continued improvement and his performances on the World World Tour stage this year. I had a great time interviewing him.

Dad wasn't on this interview, but with.

Huge ambitions for Team Jayco, we're really excited to have this and we can't wait to see what the future holds.

Lucas, a very big welcome to the episode. Thanks for jumping on. Our first question we normally like to ask everyone is, what training session did you do today? You're a couple of days out from the Tour down under, so I am keen to see what you actually might have done today if it wasn't a rest day.

Thanks for having me. Today was just. We actually have a sponsor ride with a local giant store here in Adelaide. Um, so it was actually nice little ride. We just cruised an hour and a half down the beach and had had a few coffees.

Unreal.

No complaints.

Yeah, perfect. And then. And then. What did you do over the weekend? Kind of in the lead up. Are you having an easy few days, especially at the Nationals last week and it's leading into a stage tour. What do you do over the weekend? Leading in?

Yeah, it's been an odd one. Changes each time. But like, Nationals is on Sunday. You normally have a pretty easy week after. We've spent most of our time reconning the stages. Like, you know, most of the rides pretty well by now. Um, but yeah, a few changes here and there. So we had to look at the Pick the Harbour stage and had a look at the corkscrew stage, which is sort of some of the important days. And then obviously we raced on Saturday night just around a city circuit here. So, yeah, it was actually, to be honest, pretty solid few days. But yeah, put the feet up now until we start. Start tomorrow.

Perfect.

Now, I do want to touch on the nationals and talk about that race and see how it panned out. And you, obviously, your specialty is a climber and more of a GC rider. And that was obvious when it was getting to the later stages of the race and you started what I would describe as floating up the hill. You closed down one of the brakes and we could not believe we were actually on the hill watching. We could not believe how quickly you close it down. And that shows, you know, how good your climbing Ability is. But tell me, how did. How did that race pan out for you? What was your kind of summary and description of the race?

Yeah, as always, Nationals is a bit of a. It's an awesome race to watch and it's nearly just as nerve wracking as racing as it is to. To watch. It's. Yeah, there's a lot of moving parts and you sort of want to try and keep up with it all. We obviously got no radio, so you're relying on information off the roadside and. Yeah, I think this year was. I think from a viewer's point of view, it was a good race to watch and it sort of felt like that a little bit in the race. Always felt a little bit like unexpected what was going to happen. Sometimes groups stay away, sometimes groups don't. You sort of rely on how people's leagues are at the road. Myself personally, I had. I had probably one of the better days I've had on the bike. Like, I felt really good, um, which sort of cost me a bit in the end because I ended up moving probably a little bit too early. Five, six laps ago, it's. I started to probably do a little bit too much, which in hindsight would have been maybe okay. But I obviously had that crash, which I probably did more damage to my ego than. Than body parts, just uphill. But that sort of cost me a bit with the. And it actually sort of. In a way, not. Not to put it all down to me, not that my presence changed anything, but more the crash actually changed a few things in a bike race. It meant we lost Callum, who was actually on a really good day because he had to give his bike to me. Yeah, yeah, he was. Yeah, he's a great teammate. So we lost him and he was going really well and had put in some big moves before that. We had. Obviously Caleb was getting dagged at the time and sort of got back on because of it. The two groups split into two, was quite a fast lap and then it sort of. To sort of change the dynamic of the race. And then it meant that when I got back on I was. I'd done like two or three pretty big laps already and sort of that lap chasing back on, I sort of was in a little starting to get a little bit of. Little bit of trouble. Could start to feel it. Which, yeah, not to. Not to blame the crash at all, but it just, it did change a fair few things. Um, and then in the end there, I think the strongest boys were at the front and racing and yeah, it's Always. It's always hard, especially someone for bling. It's. It's hard in those situations because no one wants to sprint against you. And yeah, he's always going to get bombarded with attacks and it's. The pressure's on him or the, you know, responsibilities on him to make sure no one slips away. So, yeah, it was obviously disappointing for us because I think we had the team and the riders to pull off the win. But full credit to Clappy. He rode for me, one of a really smart bike race and he obviously had the legs and he bluffs his way through it a bit in terms of. I'm sure he won't mind me saying that, but he sort of made it look like he was probably hurting more than he was. And yeah, he put on, yeah, a classy ride, in my opinion.

Heaps to unpack here. I'll start with Plappy. Do you guys talk to each other after and you find out how much he was bluffing? Was he really sitting at the back because he was bluffing or was he just hurting a little bit and just trying to get through a majority of the race, then trying to come good in the end?

No, I haven't. I actually haven't spoken to him, but, yeah, whether he's bluffing or not, I'm not sure whether that's confirmed or not, but I would have a feeling that he did. It's pretty unlikely that he. He was feeling shit ass and then, well, feeling bad and then coming back. But if he did, then, yeah, maybe, maybe he was not bluffing, but yeah, I think he just did. And it's always tough for those guys in those World Tour teams that are against us, that they're by themselves and they can. It's quite easy to get frustrated with the race because, you know, a lot of the time nationals feels out of your control. And yeah, in my opinion, like I said, I think he just wrote it so smart. And whether he was bluffing or whether he wasn't, he. He timed it to perfection and he sort of, yeah, was able to. To pull it off, which is in hit from in his position by himself. Not to pump him up too much, but he's. It's hard to do. So, yeah, it was a good ride. In fact, all those boys did a pretty good ride. Like, for me, one of the strongest on the day was probably, probably Ben o'. Connor. He. He did a lot of work, um, and he sort of just took it on his shoulders a bit.

Yeah, and he blitzed. That was that second Last lap, which was the fastest of the day. And that was just all him on the front, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he did. Yeah, he did some pretty impressive pools and he was. Yeah, so he was moving all right.

And with the. With these races, there's no team radios for those that don't know. And so you're relying a lot on what you're seeing around you. And I guess talking to people. Are people talking about specific riders? Are you talking to your teammates about what's going on? Like, are people mentioning their plaps at the back or is it just. You kind of see it, but not everyone sees it. Same with Caleb.

Caleb, yeah, exactly. I think, I think, yeah. Any of those. Any of those guys we're mindful of. I think obviously we're all back in Australia training over the summer. We know what local guys from each state are sort of going well. Like, obviously I've done a bit training with Jimmy Wheel and I knew that he was. He was moving really well. And then you obviously have the World Tour guys who we're all very aware of and we know well, and whether you're not really sure how well they're going, but if they're there deep in the race, you know, Nationals is an easy circuit to get around. So if they're there deep in the race, you know that they've put in enough work to be pretty good. So, yeah, we discussed a bit. I sort of said I had a feeling, and I sort of mentioned it, that I could see Pappy lining that he was. He was going to definitely move at some point. You're sitting at the back, he's sort of like. He looks. Start to look pretty comfortable and. Yeah, so pretty sure that he was going to do something whether it was on the final or not. And like, you sort of talk about that sort of stuff and. And when it's down to a group of that much, you know, you sort of got to pick few guys that you're going to watch and you can't. We can't watch everyone. And you know, guys like that, you definitely. You have to be mindful. Mindful of. So you sort of communicate that. Yeah, yeah.

And what actually happened in your. In your crash, it wasn't very clear on tv. It was kind of slightly missed. But what.

Uh, I was just. I was out of the saddle and I was like. I was overlapping the wheel, which you sort of do anyway on clients. Um, and then Jimmy Wheel and just sort of swung out and then he, like, I touched it and he sort of swung out Again, it was just. It was no one's fault. It was literally just like one of those awkward crashes where I just had to add a little get down and. Yeah, yeah, it was just. It was just silly. No one's. No one's real fault just. Just happened. But the problem was, was that somehow, I don't know, but, like, I completely. I broke one of the spokes and went into my derailer. So I sort of, like, the bike was unridable.

Yeah.

Which was. Which was unfortunate because if it was rideable, it would have, you know, I would have been able to just jump back on and. But that was sort of what held it up. I sort of rode Callum's bike, nearly got back on, then did the bike swap, and then, like, didn't get on till, you know, through the finish there. So, yeah, it was more that. Yeah, the chase back on it and the bike breaking that hurt me.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And what's, what's your mindset after that? You obviously try not to panic. You're on a different bike. You're trying to figure out when a bike spot could happen. What are you saying to yourself?

Yeah, to be honest, I think I was okay. I stayed pretty calm. You got to just make sure in those moments. I think on a hot day that it was on Sunday, you got to keep drinking, keep eating, because it's easy to get caught up in the moment. We still, I think, had three laps ago or something. So for me, it was just about, you know, keep fueling and sort of get back on. Yeah, um, I didn't really have much concern that I wouldn't get back on. Cause, you know, the style of racing at Nationals, it's very stop start. I had a little bit of concern that I'd get back on and the race would be, you know, few guys would have gone and it would have been like, you know, sort of come from behind a little bit. But. But I was. Yeah, I was. I was pretty calm. But when I got back on, I was hoping that, you know, we'd have a couple of easy laps on the climb.

Like.

Oh. If. If it had gone down the lap I got back, could have been a different story, but, yeah, it was. In the end, it was. Was okay. Like, I actually felt all right, but it definitely stung me a bit.

Yeah. And quick thinking, I think you grabbed one or two bottles and. And your head unit. Is that right?

Yep, yep. Got my garment and that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's solid. And that's obviously your first thought. Bike's done. Grab These make sure you got your water in your head unit and then you can get it in your bike. Yeah.

Bottles is normally first head unit. Probably didn't need to worry about too much, but yeah, so just natural reaction. But yeah, yeah.

At that stage of the racing I forget it's not. You're not really looking down, it's.

Nah, yeah, exactly. For nationals, you don't really like the circuit racing, you don't really need it. You know how many laps is left. Like Obviously if it's 0.8 A to B it's something you need but in circuit racing it's. Yeah, it's pretty self explanatory and you're.

Not looking down at your power, just curious to how you're going compared to how you're feeling. Is that not as important to.

No, not really. Not too worried. If I was out there by myself I would probably be looking down a lot more. But when you're in the bunch. No, no, not really. Like I every now and then have a little look at like lap times and that just to see, you know, like if you're like, oh, that was a pretty hard lap. Look down like you say. It's actually. Yeah, we've gone pretty fast because I've raced that circuit since I was, you know, under 23. So I know it very well. I know it's a hard lap and what's a, what's a slow and what's a fast lap? So but apart from that, not much. You're looking at the lap signs. That's about it.

Yeah. Yeah. Last couple of questions on the race. I don't want to dwell on the negative but what do you, I mean what's your, what's your analysis for yourself? You obviously were feeling really good. You looked really good. Like I said, you seem like you're floating up the hills personally. How do you reassess that? You just take some confidence going. I was informed and just, you know, that kind of stunned me a bit.

Yeah. To be honest. I think first things like it's obviously you work hard over the summer and you sort of want to rock up and have good legs and so that was the positive. Like I, I did have good legs and the form was in a place, in a good place. The negative is, I guess I, I, in my opinion I wrote a little bit silly. I wrote a little bit too eager and yeah sort of easy. Got caught up in it a bit and sort of started to go a little bit early. Um, and then yeah, I think there was a couple of Things on the last lap that I did. Um, like, obviously I really wanted to be there in that group with. With Michael at the front there, that four or five guys. And I did a turn on the climb before plat went to bring back that group of three. Um, and I pulled back on the flat bit, fast bit and sort of the first, like minute and a half of the second part of the climb. And in that late in the race, it sort of, you know, sort of went prob. I was trying to bring back that group three, but realistically they were coming back. They were just sitting there and I brought them back and then the attacks happened. Yeah, in hindsight I shouldn't have done that turn. I should have just sit. Because it's one of those cons where if you're in the wheels for that bit, you can really get good recovery and then you just. You're ready for the toxic over the top. Yeah, because once we got over the top, I was. I was. I was good again. But you know, when they initially attacked, it was like I sort of done the end of my effort. And that was, to be honest, just one thing that. Yeah, like in hindsight's a wonderful thing. But yeah, if I could have my time again, I probably would have because, you know, obviously if there's myself and Michael there, it changes the whole dynamic of that. Or just two guys from the same team. That front group changed the whole dynamic. So, yeah, I think that was. That was a bit disappointing. But, you know, live and learn in either.

At the time, are you sort of thinking, I want to pull this back? Are you sort of sacrificing yourself a little bit for Michael? Um. Is that what you're thinking or you just. Or any one of you guys there? That was good.

Yeah. I think at that point a hundred percent it's all in for. For Michael. Um, and that was my thoughts and I sort of was trying to get the group back that was. That I was in there's maybe I can't remember how many it was. It was 97 or less in the second group. And I was pretty to get back because even with a larger group, I'd still back him in to win in a gallop. And I knew that if I was there, I still had a good enough legs to make sure that, you know, nothing went right up until, you know, you don't know what could happen. Like maybe, you know, I wouldn't have been able to but, you know, it would have been good to be able to as long as a Caleb or someone Wasn't there in that group with me. I was, I was pretty happy to, you know, get back on. And, and that's. And that sort of the thing with nationals is there's no radios. So, you know, he, he doesn't know that up the road that, you know, the group behind potentially doesn't have Caleb or who it has and, you know, the numbers and whatnot and that he doesn't even know that I'm there, really. So. Yes, it was sort of. That was one thing that I think I was, I was keen to get that group back, but it's sort of out of your control a little bit.

Yeah. And yeah, lastly, what was the team assessment? What, I mean, Matthews. Yeah, what the. What was his assessment? He would have been disappointed to be right there and then not get it. But how do you guys assess that as a team?

Yeah, I think we're obviously disappointed because we didn't win. We're an Australian team. Like, you know, we love being like every year that I've been a part of that race and we've won, it's, you know, one of the best ones you can have for the year. But I think from a team's point of view, heading into the rest of the races this summer, like, we're obviously really confident with everyone's form and how everyone's going and. Yeah, and, and especially on top of that is, is Bling is. He's. He's going super well. He's. He's flying and he was one of. Definitely one of the strongest at nationals and he, you know, he only got off the plane on Wednesday or Thursday, I think, from Europe and Sunday was a red hot day. 16 laps like it was. For him to do that, go that deep into the race is pretty impressive. So I think looking forward, we were like, pretty happy with where everyone's at, but yeah, obviously, and I feel for Blaine because, you know, he's this type of rider that, you know, can really do well in that circuit. So, yeah, we're disappointed, but yeah, move on a little bit, definitely.

And you go ahead. Yeah, exactly. You got to see full, full tour now to get some stage wins and, and kick the year off, I guess.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, hopefully.

Right, we. We'll move on from nationals again. I didn't want to dwell on negative, even though you'd rather win, but that's unbelievable insight, to be honest.

It's just, it's.

Yeah, it's so cool to hear exactly what's going through everyone's head in those key moments. It Was an epic race. It was one of the best races for a while. And as, as people watching, we were just stoked with the depth. I think that's one of the coolest parts is, you know, the guys at the end, the, the talent that you're all at. You know, I think there was, I can't remember exactly maybe 10 or 12, 12 of you who've written a Grand Tour in the last year, which is just so cool at the top. And then multiple stage winners obviously in the race. It's pretty awesome.

Yeah, it's, yeah, to be honest, it's pretty exciting period for Australian cycling. I think there is a lot of guys and there's a lot of World Tour Australian riders now and there's a lot of guys who are, you know, at the top. Top, top of the peloton. And yeah, it's pretty, you know, it's this year we only had our second ever went Grand Tour. I mean last year, second ever Grand Tour winner from Australia and he's 26. So like it's, it's pretty, pretty exciting times I think for Australian cycling in general. And you know, obviously you got the domestic guys who race, you know, locally and that are s. And that are classy as and they put themselves in the mix every year at national. So yeah, it's, yeah, it's pretty, pretty hard race for, you know, the first, first race of the year.

Definitely. Yeah, there was a lot of the more local guys, Norton World Tour teams. Absolutely taking it to the race which was so good to see.

Yeah, it is, it is.

Yeah. We want to get into some rapid fire questions. We really love getting insight into, you know, what the pros are actually doing. Just some behind the scenes around nutrition and training and some of the extras. So we're going to hit you with some rapid fire ones and you just give us kind of your best answers for some of these questions. So we want to start on a nutrition front. This is something that a lot of people are interested in, especially with endurance sports. So tell us what do you eat pre training normally and let's, let's go for like a hard day. You've got a hard session. What do you, what's your go to? Pre training meal.

Pre training meal. I will go to normally ranges. Depends where I am in the world and what season it is. Yeah, we'll go normally. Porridge, maybe muesli on top of the porridge, bit of peanut butter, bit of honey, sort of some berries and then an omelette on some bread, a couple pieces of Toast and an omelette. Yeah, we'll normally tick the box. That'd be for a pretty hard day.

Yeah.

And then, yeah, a couple coffees, of course, just to wake up for sure.

And then post training, what are you having that first half hour to hour straight after a hard session?

Yeah, I guess we get, we have like, you want to have quite high jar, so we get into some lollies, some Haribos, soft drink of some sort and then obviously like a protein shake or protein bar, whatever's sort of on offer. This is at races normally at home you sort of, you, if you have the protein powder there and stuff. I try not to have too much of it when I'm at home, but yeah, I sort of will get into like some lollies and water and some, like some yogurts. And then obviously you have your lunch meal which is normally pasta, rice or, or depends how, how big the day was but. Or just a sandwich or something.

Yeah. It's never that complicated, is it? We ask a lot of athletes this, but it's always pretty much the same answer.

Yeah, yeah. No, it's like it's, it's pretty basic eating when it comes down to it. Like, I think you definitely try and you know, you, you know, cautious of the fact that it's the same thing over and over again year round. So you sort of want to try and make sure you're mixing it up every now and then and, you know, putting a bit of effort into, you know, making some different stuff and whatnot. But at the end of the day you can only eat so much and if you got big day after big day, you sort of have to make sure you filled up. So you don't want to waste too much room with stuff that's not going to give you the fuel you need.

Absolutely.

And pre race, it's the same sort of thing as pre training. Pretty similar meal.

Pretty similar, yeah. To be honest, you want to keep it like somewhat similar but like it's, it's obviously in very specific parts of the year and you know, you have parts where you sort of just like, you know, sometimes after races the first thing you feel like is a salad because you just like you just, you haven't gone and eaten something that's like, you know, quite light and refreshing for a while. So it's sort of like, you know, you're not doing it day in, day out. Every day for the whole year you sort of have, you know, a couple of weeks where that's your nutrition and you sort of do that. And then you obviously have your periods where you just. Yeah. Trying to get away from all the stuff you eat and all the time.

Yeah. So give us that answer then.

What's.

What's your favorite kind of guilty food if you really want to indulge in something?

I got a massive sweet tooth. So always some sort of chocolate or. Yeah, pretty much chocolate or. And then, you know, if you can get. To be honest, like, it's not. It's not a guilty food because actually I would eat it anyway if I was, if I was training. But like, I'd go out for a nice sushi meal.

Yeah.

Always like, it's. It's quality stuff that. So. Yeah, yeah, that's probably my go to a little bit. But chocolate for sure. Yeah, chocolate. Pretty quick.

Yeah.

Sushi is sushi. That's what I mean. It's not guilty food at all. It's not really an answer for that question because it's. It actually is pretty good for you. In fact, it's probably better for you.

Yeah. To be honest, it's. It's a funny question to ask athletes because most athlet athletes train so much that there's no such thing as guilty food anyway because you probably can't get enough calories in. You know, it's about making sure you're.

Getting more calories, so.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, definitely. Cycling is one of those sports where you can burn a lot, so you sort of. You got a lot of. Lot of fuel to put in for sure.

Last one on the nutrition. What kind of diet changes, if any, have made the biggest impact on weight? If you're aiming for a waist weight or performance?

I guess for me, I've been like, obviously coming up through on 23s and that. Like, you know, you have big. You've grown up eating spaghetti Bolognese and, you know, as carbs and that as much as possible before races. I think for me is one thing that's definitely changed a lot over the last three years. Two years is the fueling on the bike, how much you're getting in per hour, carbs wise, how many gels you're having, drinks have changed, where you can get a lot more in from just one drink. And that for sure has made just. Just actually like, you know, when you calculate it and stuff, and what you need and what you. What you thought you were doing right is actually, you know, not that a fair way off is what you actually meant to be doing. And I think that's definitely been a massive change. Not necessarily just myself but in the sport, people, you know, feeling a lot more on the bike.

You specifically, do you have a set, you know, grams of carbs. You're generally aiming for an hour per.

Race, around a hundred. If it's a hard day, around a hundred, which is. Which is a lot. But then obviously, like, you feel like a grand tour. You can't maintain that for three weeks. Well, I can't. Maybe some guys can. So I sort of, you know, on easy days, will, you know, take that down a lot and sort of focus on more having, like, real food rather than gels and bars when I don't have to. Because on the big days, yeah, you rely pretty heavy on the gels and bars of the world and the sort of drinks. So, yeah, it's. And, yeah, sort of just try and avoid them when you can for just more. Yeah, sort of. Was it diverse foods? Yeah, yeah.

And I guess it's more a case of the intense days. It's what's easier to get. Get in.

Right.

When it's too intense, you actually just can't eat that much, like, food. Solid food.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. And, like, it's sort of nationals is a sort of perfect example of that. It's raced from, you know, sort of start to finish most of the time, and you sort of big mountain days, whatever, and you don't really get much time to, you know, actually take food on and sort of, you know, eat a big, big rice cake or something like that. So you sort of. Yeah, you rely really heavily on just drinks and gels and. And, you know, some bars. Bars sometimes can be a bit difficult. So.

Yeah, yeah.

And then, like, if you had an element in where it's, like, super cold or something like that, then, like, you know, you're trying to get in your pockets and you're wearing, like, three different jackets and you're. So, yeah, it's sort of. It makes things a lot easier when you've got those things close by, for sure.

Leading into the training questions, the biggest message all athletes, pro athletes will say is consistency is key. But is there a specific type of training session or training mode that you think has made the biggest impact for you and your improvement?

I think for me, like, I respond quite well to, like, a lot of, you know, low intensity, but, like, pretty big volume and stuff. And then I sort of. Yeah, sort of the intensity seems to come a little bit quicker, which I think is for, like, a lot of people. So I don't think that's any different. But I think for me, the biggest Training difference has just been actually, you know, living in a place like Andorra. I've seas which just living on mountains, you sort of get used to climbing longer distances and sort of whatnot, and you sort of. To get homes in our climbs. Are you sort of. Yeah, it's a hard way home. But like. But also in saying that every time I go back to Arat, it's.

It's.

It's pretty hard roads, so it's sort of. I get. So that, to be honest, that sort of location for me can change a lot. Um, but, yeah, training wise, I sort of. I do do, like, some, like, low volume, low intensity, high volume.

Yeah.

Weeks, especially early in the year. Obviously you don't do that much later in the year, but.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Maybe that was a key to your junior success, that Ararat roads.

I think, I think, definitely. I think, yeah. Every time I go back there for the summer and that I'd sort of. It's funny, like, I just like, oh, no wonder I used to go right. As a junior, because these tough roads.

Yeah.

And slow. So. Yeah, no, definitely, that's definitely helped, for sure.

All right. And do you do weights, part of your training program?

Yes, I do a lot of gym. Yeah. Yeah. You can't tell, but. But no, I do. I do do a lot of gym because I. Especially over this period in the off season, just because. Yeah, I find that helps a lot, actually, to be honest, that should be my answer is probably gym.

Cool.

Because I reckon that's. Yeah. Something that really, really helps me. Um. I don't know. I don't think it's the same for everyone, but I think just for me, I feel a lot. A lot better on the bike if I'm working quite hard in the gym. That's not necessarily lifting weights or anything. It's more, you know, just sort of the core and mobility stuff of the world.

For sure.

Yep.

Is that all year round and maybe just taking some breaks when there's some key races, especially a grand Tour.

But yeah, it's pretty hard to. To keep going year round if, obviously, if I can get a good base in this time of year. So this time of year it's like, I do a lot just to try and create a good base and I like to keep it year round, but it's. It's not. It's not realistic with just the traveling and the. And the racing. And then as soon as you start getting tired, you. You know, a lot of the time, it's hard to find time for it. Because you know, your key training days become key training days and you sort of other days become easy. But yeah, I always try and keep it somewhat going throughout the year, but it definitely lessens off during the season for sure.

Now, not everyone likes it, but do you like riding Zwift?

Good question. Yeah, yeah, I do. I don't do it much anymore, but if I was gonna jump on the Ergo, I'd probably jump on Zwift. Yeah, I. I like the competitive side of it. I like doing the races and whatnot. I'm just sure the same as everyone enjoyed it during lockdown. So yeah, for sure. Yeah, I do not against it.

Yeah, cool. And power, not everyone likes looking at it heaps. Do you like riding to power and seeing it as you're going.

Training? Yes. Yeah, I think I do. Like. Like I'm pretty. Yeah, training, definitely. Races, I don't use it very much at all, but like, yeah, I think obviously in situ certain situations and races you'd use it, but yeah, and races I don't like. I still use it. Still have it there on the screen. Like it's not like I have it off the screen. It's just normally going too hard to focus on it and just focus on the wheelhead here. But yeah, I'm sure if you're off the front and ripping it up then maybe watching it too much. But yeah, I'm not in that position too much so I sort of don't get much time to look at it.

Yeah, fair.

Yeah.

And some extra questions just around. Yeah, you as an athlete, as a professional, is there anything weird that you do or that you know, any of your teammates do that have no impact on performance, but you still do it anyway as part of your training or racing?

Yeah, I thought about this and I was trying to think of something. I don't really have anything that I can think of that I do. Yeah, not. Not really. I'm trying. I'm trying to think of. I was trying to think of someone that I know that does something, but myself I'm trying to think of like an old habit, anything mentally you do.

Like pre race, like a ritual or superstition. If not, then that's fine.

Well, my mum sends me a message before the start of every race I do. So that's. I guess that's a tradition. Every race, no matter when it is what it is, it's always around an hour or two before the race. So that's something that happens that's been happening every day of race since, you know, since I was under 23, so.

That's amazing.

Yeah, yeah, that is. Yeah. She's back in Oz most of the time, so she's. Yeah. Up and shoots a message off, so she hasn't missed a beat yet.

That's a great answer.

That's awesome.

What's your favorite recovery strategy or gadget.

That you have this time of year? Middle of summer. Ice pass, if I can. Always big fan of ice bars, sort of. What else do I use? We got. We have the recovery boots, which are pretty good. And then. Yeah. Trying to think.

Yeah.

To be honest, just R and R is always a good recovery tool. Just not doing much.

Definitely. And I did say. Yeah, these are some of the weird questions, but we always just trying to find anything that a pro athlete's doing that's a little bit different.

Different.

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, Yeah. I think it's always important too, to make sure that you're switching off a little bit. And. Yeah, that's. That's always good for recovery.

Yeah, for sure. Is there in racing, you know, conserving energy as much as possible, being in the race, but doing it in a way that conserves energy as much as possible is basically the name of the game. So what tactics do you use to try and conserve in a race when it's just hell for leather at your.

Level, staying in the wheels, for sure. I think one thing that, like, it really depends on what race it is and what are you doing. Like, use Nashville as an example tenfold is it's circuit racing and, you know, you know, where things normally move so normally go, and you obviously got the climb and whatnot. And then, you know, you have those other moments you. You gotta really try and utilize to. To recover.

Yeah. Um.

Cause you start wasting energy on the parts of the circuit that aren't really useful to, you know, getting away or. Or shutting stuff down, then you sort of wasting a lot of energy. So that's like. Circuit racing is great for that. You sort of can pick your, um. Yeah. And then, you know, you try. And I think for myself, like, you always want to try and, you know, steer clear of the front as much as possible, but, you know, that's not. That's not always a reality. And you obviously can steer too far away and sort of get caught out and get caught behind a split or something. So it's a fine balance of, you know, being close enough to the front but not too close.

Yeah, for sure. How would you apply that to a stage race or a road race? Yeah, again, in a Tour example, It's a different stage every day. You're not going to know every single section down to the T, are you? Relying on the.

Your.

Your directors to explain to you the sections where you need to be recovering? Is that part of your tactics or you just feel it as you go?

A bit of both. Bit of both. You obviously want to do a bit of research yourself and sort of. Yeah, you got that. And then you obviously got the radios in your. In your head that sort of can give you information and tell you. Yeah. What's coming up, what's not coming up. And, you know, that adds stress, too, because everyone's probably hearing the same stuff most of the time. But, yeah, it's also your responsibility as a writer, I guess, to do. We've got a lot of tools now nowadays to do a lot of research on what's. What the stages involve and what's coming up.

Yeah, for sure. All right, mate, last question. We do want to know, and you've been mixing it with some of these guys a lot as you've been getting better and better on the world tour circuit.

But the guys at the very top.

The, you know, the Vanderpoels, the vanguard, who obviously won the Tour, even Jai, who won trivial, either Giro, what makes the guys at the very top the peak of their game? Is there anything you notice when you're out there that. That you go, what makes them different?

No, I don't. I don't think so. Like, I think, you know, there's obviously an element of their. Like, some of these guys are freaks and they. And they, you know, they. They obviously work. It's a mixture of being freaks and working super hard, and it sort of all comes together and they can do the things they do. I think, yeah, they just pretty committed to their sport, and they're pretty committed to being the best at it. And, yeah, I think I'd love to give you, you know, a wise answer, but to be honest, I think they're just. Yeah, pretty good at what they do, and they. And they work hard at it.

That's a perfect answer. And that's. Honestly, we expect that most of the time.

It's still good to hear that there's.

There's nothing crazy going on. It's just. Yeah, they just. They just work hard. And from your perspective, you know, I want to make the point that you must be getting a lot of confidence that, yeah, you're really mixing it with them more and more frequently. And then when guys like Jai and Ben are doing so well at that level and you know, Ben getting fourth of the Tour and, yeah, you would see yourself as the same ability and therefore, that must give you a lot of confidence in what you can achieve in the future, Right?

Yeah, exactly. I think I'd love to perform at that level that those boys have, you know, really sort of coming into their own now and then. You know, being there actually at the Giro this year when Jai won and stuff, it was. It was pretty incredible to be a part of, just to be there. Obviously, I've grown up with him, racing him since we were under 15. Yeah. So, yeah, it's one of those things where, yeah, I'd like to think it gives me a bit of confidence that, you know, I know that I can potentially, you know, be out there with the top guys at some. Some stage, but, yeah, just keep chipping away at it and we. We see how it goes.

And then lastly, what's your. What's your plans for this year? Goals for this year. Have another crack at one of the main tours or. Or a couple, potentially.

Yeah, I'll plan it by ear a bit. I think, obviously we've got some big goals this week. I know this is the.

Yeah.

Media answer, but, yeah, got some big goals this week. So start there and then sort of look forward to. Obviously, I'd like to head back to races like Paris and that and do well. And, yeah, I think for us, you know, we'd love to win a Grand Tour, so I think being a part of that would be. Would be great. And, yeah, I think hopefully we can start it off well with the next couple weeks here in Oz.

Mate, great answers. We can't wait to see what happens.

Over the next couple of weeks and.

Then, yeah, keep seeing your progress over the year and all the Jayco boys. So thank you very much for joining us. You've been real generous in insight into pro life. And thanks for that discussion at the start about the Nationals race. That's actually such good post. Race analysis and type of stuff our audience loves. So thank you very much for coming on.

All right, thanks for having me.

Cheers.