The Ultimate Race Day Mindset (Listen Before Your Next Triathlon)

This podcast is brought to you by Trivelo Coaching, where we help triathletes and cyclists like you train smarter to race faster. I'm your host, Jordan Donnelly, and on my left is former Australian Ironman champion and head coach of Trivalo Coaching, Jarred Donnelly. Every athlete deals with race day nerves and every athlete turns up to race day. Not just turning up against the race, but facing a battle against your mindset. Are you going to come out of it on top of it or not? Most people assume that when you've done the work and the training, you can turn up on race day and the result will take care of itself. But this could not be more wrong. If you don't execute properly, if you put your efforts down at the wrong times, you will undo all the hard work you've done and ruin your race. So today we're asking, how do you get yourself in the right mindset to perform at your best? How do you put yourself in the right state to perform well? And how do you get the most out of all the hard work? You've done that and more in today's episode. As always, this episode is brought to you by our partners at Giant. The Giant family just loves bike riding, training and racing. Ride life. Ride Giant. Dad. Welcome back to another episode, starting with our normal first segment. What are you grateful for?

Thanks, Jordan. Looking forward to this one. My gratitude is very simple. I've had this period of consistency since the last six months where I've been able to ride, when I had a period where I had such an inconsistent training and racing period in my life, I suppose, where injury or my back operation has prevented me from doing that. And that's probably the longest period I've had where it's been 15 or 16 weeks of nothing. And we've had lots of good podcasts showing how you can overcome this eventually if you think about it in long term rather than the short term. You know, now I look back, it's a year gone by now, which was in May, start of May. And that 16 week period seems insignificant because I've had, you know, 45 or 40 weeks or 35 weeks. My maths is not too good here. 35 weeks of really good training since that point and you forget about that 16 weeks. We don't forget about it. But you certainly understand that if, if you, in the scheme of things, over a year or two or three, that will become less significant in your life. And so my gratitude is all about having periods of consistency. And we're going to have these Roadblocks along the way. And it's just making sure almost the topic we're going to talk about today, the mindset that you have is, I've just got to work my way through the injury or the sickness or whatever's causing me to be inconsistent. And then once I get the green light, I can then focus on just turning up every day. And that's what consistency is. It's not about being a hero on one particular session each week and doing that really well and then actually missing a few days here and there. The hardest part of a training program is turning up each day. And, you know, if. If the program says you have to do a hard session and you're very motivated but you feel fatigue, just turn up and do something that's a little bit less intense, but make sure you turn up. And the only reason you wouldn't is because you're actually sick or there's some injury. But other than that, you should be. You should be thinking about, I've just got to make sure that I do this this week so that I'm seven sessions ahead for next week. And then if I look back over three weeks, I've done every session and now I've got 21 under my belt. If I do one session a day instead of, I've half done it, I've got 12 sessions and I'm 50% better than I would have been had I just gone to that inconsistency habit. And I think that's the key gratitude that I have is my mindset is allowing me to turn up each day. And whether it's a great session or whether it's a very basic session, I know that I'm ticking sessions on and I am progressively getting better and fitter closer to where I want to be.

There is such beauty, inconsistency, and often you want to do the shiny session and you want to do the hero session, and we all fall victim to that. I want to smash out a session and do something that was going to make me feel really impressive almost, but there's actually more, I'm going to say more glory and more benefit in turning up each day and doing that consistently and being in that positive habit, because when it's taken away from you, as you've spoken about, it's horrible. But also when you start being inconsistent, when things get in the way, if you get injured for some reason life gets in the way, you stop training, you start to get into this kind of negative feedback loop where training becomes harder and then the momentum starts to slow down and then you feel less motivated and therefore training becomes even harder. And it just kind of goes in a bit of a downward spiral. And we see this undo a lot of athletes. And so, you know, the. The magic formula to that is to get back to consistency. And. And when you do, you just. When you are training consistent, it feels so good, but then you can almost become numb to the feeling. And then when it's taken away from you, you go, oh, I miss that feeling of when I was just super consistent for 12 weeks in a row or 16 weeks in a row. And that's somewhere just six or 12 or 16 weeks of just a great period and you are as fit as you've ever been and you're absolutely peaking. So that's a good reminder for everyone to. That's all it takes for you to be feeling back on top of the world.

Just ask anybody, Jord, who is currently injured or is sick, how they didn't realize how much they actually enjoyed the training process. And they can't wait to get back to it. And they're not allowed to because they've got an injury that might be another six weeks or eight weeks, and then they get perspective instantly of far out. When I start again, I'm just. My goal is just to be consistent as much as I can, and I will just start to gradually improve my fitness level and my performance will be a reflection of the consistency. Anyway, as we all know for sure.

My gratitude is kind of along a similar sort of theme, but it's talking about the running boom that we've mentioned a fair bit over the last six to 12 months. And I'm just actually really grateful for the increase in popularity of running because over the last six months, I have done more run clubs and more social runs with friends and people I know expected than ever before. And for us, where we spend a lot of time training solo and doing our own training, that has been a really enjoyable process. And you obviously can't do every session like that because it does take away from your training a little bit. But I have just ran with friends and met a whole bunch of new people that I never would have, all because of this running boom and people that have really taken up running and absolutely loved it the last six to 12 months. So I've really been loving that process. And that has meant that running coverage, race coverage, athletics news and media is just growing and growing, which I'm super, super stoked with, because we absolutely love it. Which kind of brings us to the next point of what we've been noticing. What's caught our attention is that it's two months to the Olympics and all the athletes, especially in athletics, are starting to come out and they finished a big training block. A lot of them have finished off the training camps and they're starting to race and they're starting to get themselves informed and show the results of the training they've been doing. And we've just been seeing some pretty epic racing, which always happens around the Olympic period. This last final months, you just see some epic Diamond League races. You're seeing athletes basically coming into their prime of their four years, and it's truly incredible to watch. Over the weekend we had the Prefontaine Classic Diamond League race. There were some pretty unbelievable showdowns. And then the one if, you know, if you haven't been following athletics and you've been hiding under a rock, the Curvis Ingritzen rivalry, which has been brewing for years, came to its climax, or first climax, I should say, over the weekend, where they have finally had their showdown. And after a lot of talk and Ingebritson has been semi, semi unbeatable the last few years, apart from losing twice to a British athlete in the World Champs. He had his first race back from injury against a very informed Kerr. And Kerr took the win. And it was. It's pretty interesting to watch. And, and it's, you know, the lesson for us here is, I think you want to talk about this is, you know, this is the first race being a Ritzen, Kerr's been in pretty good form for a few months. How does this play then? Play out to the Olympics.

Yeah. And look, we're kind of almost dismissing the rest of the field. And you've got Wakeman, who beat Ingrid at the World Champs, on that exact same track actually two years ago. You've got the American. Just his name. Yeah, Negus.

Ironic that you forgot his name. We're talking about forgotten athletes. That's right. So.

And Ollie Hoare and you know, there's probably five runners on any, any given day on that particular Prefontaine Classic. You know, some of the best, fastest runs ever recorded were on in that race. Just, just gone by. And most of the guys are doing personal bests or seasons best or, or, you know, close to. Close to that. So as you said, it's great to see everybody coming into the. Into form and, and yeah, talk about Kur and Inger Britzen and not the other guys, but everybody else is trying to get to that final in Paris with a Chance to. Anything can happen on in our championship day, as we know. And that's kind of the theme that Kerr has been pushing to onto Inger Britzen, this mindset that you can only win when there's a pacemaker and, and you know I can. And he proves it at the prefontaine. He, he didn't sit on Ingebritzen. He went round him and took, took charge of the race, which I thought was fantastic. That's someone taking control of the event and showing that he can, he can win either way. And I think you made the comment that Inger Britzen said, well, I've only lost three times in 20 races and 17 of them have been the run the way that I want to run it and I've only lost three times. So which percentage would you rather have? And I think that was a great answer. But you can, you can spin anything any way you like. But you know what's going to happen now. This is eight weeks out. A lot can happen between now and July in Paris and I can't wait to see. I want us to go back to this, this episode after the final of 1500 meter has been run and, and just look at what people did and, and where their form went was, is Kerr peaking right now or has he got more to give? Remember that was a 2 second PB that he ran, is that right? And Inger Britzen ran slower than his pb so that's an interesting.

Almost two seconds as well.

Yeah, that's right. And Inger Britzen's been injured so, so most people understand that. But you know, Ingrid's got more to give. Kerr is already at his peak and can Kerr go, go faster? That's the question I'll be asking. Can he, can he get better than that at the moment? Because he'll need to be if, if form is true to anything. Ingebritsen will be run unless he gets injured again. But, but he will be on race day and he's proven it many times that you know he can perform on the big stages and so concur and so can Jake Whiteman and Negus is someone who shouldn't be underestimated and Ollie Hoare and yeah, there's so many other runners who are going to be doing exactly the same thing. So it's, it's super exciting, really is.

And Negus cannot be forgotten in this conversation because he's around the second fastest mile time in the last 20 years. Basically his PB is 0.2 of a second behind Ingebritzen that 343.8 or something. And so he was, he was also two seconds of his PB and he was really happy with his race. In the post interview he was smiling, just saying absolutely stoked, exactly where I want to be right now. And he yeah, he is not forgotten in the conversation but it was all about Curvis Ingritzman, Inger Britzen. And look, I don't want to spend too much time on this, but there is some real great learnings in this race and it deserves all the hype and the rivalry deserves the hype because there are a lot of learnings that and especially with the topic today being race day mindset and you and I had a conversation almost for 40 minutes about this. But Kerr said something really interesting in the post race conference where he, he took over the lead with 600 to go and he got asked why did he do that? That's quite a long way out to lead. When last time he beat he beating Gabrison by kicking with 200 to go. And he said that his coaches told him absolutely do not do that. You know, they wanted to take the race win and they thought his best chance of doing that was to wait till 200 to go and kick it. And he said because they told him that he was. He's a bit of a spiteful athlete, he said. And he, he said I'm going to do and he's my, he's reasoning behind it was really appropriate, I thought. He said, yeah, we're two months away from the Olympics. Ultimately this race doesn't matter. Even though there's a lot of hype around these two and there's a lot of ego on the line. He wanted to try something different to prove and see how strong he could be. And if he blew up, he was willing to accept that result. So yeah, he went against coach's orders, which we personally wouldn't like to do or I know you wouldn't like that to happen. But it paid off for him. So what do you, what were your thoughts about that?

Yeah, I think on the topic we're going to talk about the mindset and you know, you mentioned Negus and you mentioned Kerr's thoughts and we also talked about Ingebritzen. None of them were unhappy. They all had, they all had the mindset of no, this is not my big race. This is a race that I'm going to be seeing where my form is and not shying away from the race. You know, a lot of history says people stay away from competing against each other until the final big race. And they don't want to, they don't want to be letting their confidence drop by losing. Well, these, these new athletes that are the new age athletes right now, they're not afraid of racing. And I think as an age group athlete, we should have the same mindset. You know, you're trying to measure yourself against yourself, whereas these guys are trying to measure themselves against others. And the whole world's watching. You know, as an age group athlete, no one's watching me. You know, I've got my little group of family who are really keen for me to do well, you know, in my own performance. And that's how as athletes, age group athletes, we should be thinking, we shouldn't be putting all of this stress and pressure on ourselves about performance. It's all about you. You actually not being afraid of the, of the position you put yourself in. Because at the end of the day, you've chosen to do this triathlon or this marathon or this bike time trial or whatever the event you're choosing, that's what you want to do. So, you know, have the mindset of whatever happens on the day, as long as I perform the best I can, I'm going to be happy. And, and that's the thing I saw with the interviews post race was Kerr was happy, Negus was happy, Ingo Britson was happy, Ollie hall was happy. There was no unhappy runners because that was all they had this, this thought process that, you know, this is just another training session. Even though it's a big race that, you know, it's a huge race. Prefontaine Classic is a huge race. But, but they're using it as their preparation and learning. And you, you know, Kerr's gone and done some tactic different, but you watch, come Olympics, he'll draw on this race knowing, well, I've done this tactic before. This worked. Yeah, but Inger Bridson might be a different athlete and he might do that tactic. And, and then Inger Briggson comes back around him because watching that race, Ingen was so close to the back of his heels that he didn't have the kick. Well, I think that's a lot of training, but they're examples of what you should be thinking about as an age group athlete, that every opportunity you get, whether it's a training session or whether it's a B race or C race, that you're just testing yourself and understanding how you perform and what worked for you. And these guys are getting a lot of information back after that. Race, what their opposition's like and what the level they need to be at to improve. But also knowing where they sit right now in their ingredientson can say, well, I ran strong, I'm really happy with that, but I know that it's two seconds off my best, so I've still got a bit of work to go. So that's what he would come away with. Kerr would say, that's the fastest I've ever run and I took on challenges and he would get a huge, you know, everybody's getting confidence boost from it if you're looking for the right things. And I think as age groupers we, we try to put ourselves, you know, these are elite athletes with the world spotlight on them, you know, yet they're happy to go and pin themselves against others and, and be okay with the consequences. You know, does it make Inger Britzen a bad person that he's lost three out of 20? No, he doesn't think like that, you know, and that's how as age groupers we should be thinking, you know, we're going to have some races that don't go to plan, but learn from them and make sure next time that you fix those things that caused you to have a poor result. And that's kind of what we're trying to get the message across here.

I'm really glad you made that point and I think we really want to emphasize that because rightly so, we still, we get a lot of athletes really nervous about races, really nervous about testing and field testing. And as you would know if you followed us for a while, we do a lot of regular FTP tests, regular 5 or 10k time trials, regular half marathon, practice race ready sessions, et cetera, time trials in the pool. And athletes have a lot of fear around this and we have many reasons why we do it so regularly. And one of them is to help you address those race day nerves and fears and anxieties head on and get used to, you know, it's almost like a trial by combat, like get thrown in the deep end, but you really have to, by repetition and just doing it over and over, you learn to not put so much pressure on yourself. But yeah, as you just mentioned, these athletes are willing to put themselves in the world stage with spotlight on them under all that pressure and just be happy with their process. And that was a really good example from a lot of the athletes to see that even under all that pressure, it would be easy for them to not treat it as a C race or a B race. It would Be easy for them to want to put all their eggs in one basket and take the win there. And there was real maturity from Inger Brits, and I thought to. To run the way he did and to be happy with that result. And, yeah, look at this. We could go back and forth on this, you know, for the rest of the episode, because ultimately he's. His time was the 11th fastest time, I think, of all time in the mall, which is just insane. And it's his first season opener after coming back from a pretty extensive injury. But then Kirk would argue that you can only beat who you're racing against, and there's massive marriage to that, and they're not turning up not to win. Ingrid wanted to win that race, no doubt, and Kurt beat him. And so, like you said, you can draw on that. So, yeah, there's a lot, a lot in this. But I think one of the biggest lessons that we really want to reiterate is that if the world's best athletes can treat these races another training session, it's something really, we can really take on board and not put so much pressure on all our B and C races, because we do see that a lot. And it's. Yeah, it makes training and racing hard. If you're going to put yourself under that pressure every single time and it's actually not going to be as enjoyable.

Yep, it's got to be fun. And the fun factor is you getting the right mindset around why are you doing it. And once you understand why you're doing it, and as we've said many times, even now, you know, that's one example of getting the right mindset. But there's a whole list of other examples which we mentioned time and time again about, you know, practicing execution and understanding where your form currently is and making sure that you don't go out too hard and then getting the right training numbers from that event for the next training block. You know, they're just examples of why we would do it. But the main thing is to get you used to that feeling of having to measure your effort for whether it's a, you know, a training session or whether it's your. A race, you just got to keep practicing that because you want it to become automatic come race day. And that's the key to doing. If you shy away from that and never test yourself come race day, that's the only time you're ever doing it. So you haven't got any experience at it. If you've done 50 of these trials in 25 weeks, it becomes okay in your mind that I've just got to measure my execution here. That's all I've got to concentrate on.

Yeah, look, there's more nuances to this and we're going to keep talking about them as we move through the rest of the topic. But some last things on the ass front that we want to mention. Jess Hull broke the Australian record running a blistering 355. And I am just, I'm not shocked anymore, but I'm just so in awe of how good the middle distance racing is at the moment in the world and how good our Aussie girls are. And you know, no girls had broken four minutes three years ago. Four years ago. And Lindenhall and Jess Hull, the first ones to break it, which was a massive barrier, they ran 359 and then in this process of three or four years, they both made an Olympic final. And she's just run 355. Girls were not running 355 three or four years ago. It's just super impressive and it's just so awesome to see. And it was incredible racing. And she's someone that just seems to come into more and more form as she races. You know, I think this is her third or fourth race back, so I can't wait for her build to the Olympics. And hopefully, you know, she has learned a lot over the last years in the last Olympics where she got to the final and can work on that to, to peak in great form. And that's kind of. We want to keep watching that and see what happens over the next eight to nine weeks. What race do they opt to do and how fast can she go? Because that is just unbelievable running.

And also, Jordan, the depth of the female athletes around the world, there's just not one or two doing it now. There's, you know, up to 15 people who are actually doing that. And because the standards improving, guess what? Everybody else is being dragged along. And that's what's good about it. Because, you know, we use this, you know, in our own coaching business, we, you know, we run some, some events to push people where there's competition, if there's no competition around and you know, whether it's you competing against yourself or with others, you know, having targets to aim for is actually a good thing. Not all the time, but, but to make sure that you are measuring yourself. And, and this is what's happening with the, you know, with the male and female athletes is if someone's standard goes to another level, the rest of the field has to either, you know, put up the white flag or do something about it. And, and we're seeing that amongst, you know, Australian girls are all great friends, which is even more exciting. And they're all pushing each other to be better athletes because, oh, you know, Jess has done this and, and, you know, someone else has done this and I have to get to that level if I want to, if I want to be competitive. And so it's just helping, helping each other.

Yeah, it's all around. This is why I said at the start, I love an Olympic here because, yeah, in that men's mile there was, I think, 10 athletes under 350, which is just absolutely blistering. You know, there was a Diamond League race a couple of years ago, which was incredible to watch. I think three people got under 350. So, yeah, all round the athletes are just performing phenomenally. And so it's going to be really exciting next couple of months. And it would be remiss of us as, not to mention our next love, which is cycling and the Giro, finished up with relatively straightforward win for the pog. But as always in a Grand Tour, there's a lot of stories inside it and I think one of the main ones for us watching and we are always looking to see what can we, what can we learn from these races, what can we learn from what's happening? Lots to talk about. But one of the standouts for us was Geraint Thomas, at 38 years old, coming on the podium again, holding on to third after coming second last year. If you eliminated Pog's win of nine minutes, you know, Geraint Thomas was 20 seconds off winning and there's been a lot of talk about his age and I just love that he kind of said at the end of the Tour, he said, God, there's been a lot of people bringing up my age. But he doesn't see why it should be an issue as long as his fitness and form is there and he's still riding the power that he can. And he is. And so he's going to keep going for as long as that power and that form is there, which I just absolutely loved.

Yeah, and he's obviously loves racing and loves his job as a professional athlete and he's going to keep doing it as long as he's, as he said, as long as he's competitive and unreal. He is competitive. I mean, he's racing against low 20 year olds and, you know, as he said, what does it matter what your age is, as long as You've still got a form that's competitive, then you should be putting yourself in there if you love what you're doing. And, and I, you know, I'm a big advocate of age is just a number and I've pushed that my whole life. I don't care what people's ages are as long as they're, they're loving what they're doing and staying competitive. And, and you know, it's not, it doesn't even have to be when you're, when you're 50 or 60, being competitive. It's just being, being fit and healthy yourself to actually do PBS yourself and not, not comparing yourself against other people around you. That's kind of important as well as you're competitive with yourself and, and you're determined to make sure that your levels, you know, don't deteriorate too quickly because you know, it, it has to as we, as we get older, you, you can't as a 70 year old be the same athlete as you were as a 60 or a 50 or a 40 year old. That's, that's just obvious. But, but there are lots of people who can defy those odds and still be, you know, relatively close to what they were as a, you know, if I look at myself as a 65 year old, you know, what are my numbers when I was 50, that's 15 years ago. That's like, that's like, you know, comparing a 75 year old to a 60 year old. I think it's quite different when you compare those age, age groups because the drop off seems to be quicker once you hit that 70. So, you know, they're examples of how you should be thinking about your form and your fitness. And the reason we talk about Geraint Thomas is because we firmly believe if you just keep being consistent, you can actually maintain a good level of health and fitness as long as you do the work. And that's the key thing. You still have to do the work. You can't just talk about it. But I digress a bit there, but one of the key things I really loved was Ella Philippe, his return to form and his aggressiveness. And every, every day it looked like he was loving. Well, what can I do today? What can I do in this stage today? And I think he was the most aggressive rider for the tour. I think he gave that most combative title. I think, I think he won that and you know, he ended up winning one stage, but he was almost in two or three other stages where he could have won as well. Just didn't quite have the fitness. But his form is coming back and his aggressive riding, which is what we loved about him. And when we used to watch Peter Sagan, who's the same type of rider, very aggressive on, you know, doesn't matter what this. The actual course of the day's stage was. He was in it. He was in the break and having a go and, and even in the break, attacking the break, and it's just great to watch and, and, you know, it's just a reminder to all the age groupers out there that you will have periods of good, good times and you'll have periods of not so good. Whatever the reason, you know, it doesn't matter the reason. Whether you're sick or injured or just having a rough time, if you stick with the process, things will turn around if you, if you hang in there long enough. And I can remember so many people say, alpha Leap, he's done. There's no way he's. He's not gonna, he's not gonna be the Alaphilippe of old. Well, this, this Giro. He's just told all those people, yeah, you don't. Don't write me off. And look at the way he wrote. It was great. I loved it.

Yeah, it's. It's. Again, I love this conversation because I really just think it's bringing up. Bring up some really good themes. And the age thing is, is. Is really interesting. And the return to form thing, people saying, people writing him off and saying he's done, just feel like you never say that with certain athletes. And it's really. I mean, you've done this yourself. When you talk about age, where you've kept readjusting your goals based on where you're at, and you had a really solid couple of decades, you know, really wanting to master cycling because you were really injured running and you just adjusted once. You, Once you weren't able to run as well, you, or run at all, you adjusted your, your goals and then had a lot of fun, you know, mastering cycling, basically. And then in the last few years, it's been a return to the triathlon racing scene more. And, and now you're aiming for the World Champs Aqua bikes this year and just adjust the goals based on what's going to motivate you. And I think that's a really good learning for everyone. I was just thinking about age and I've got a lot of friends around me. You know, we're in our 30s now, and a lot of friends make small comments about, like, oh, the body's slowing down and, you know, recovering as well and that kind of thing. And I'm sure. Yeah, exactly.

That's a horrible sentence to hear.

Oh, yeah, yeah, I know. And I. I do say that to friends around me going, me personally, I'm still getting fitter, but if you take inspiration from guys like Aaron Thomas or Ella Philippe, who. Where people try and write them off because of their age and they're still top three rider in the world at 38, I just think, yeah, there's really important lesson there for everyone to remember. And, yeah, I just wanted to reiterate that, basically.

Yeah. And look, the rest of that Tour, you know, Pog was just incredible. He just dominated that Tour. And you just can't dismiss that. He is at the moment by a mile, just so far ahead of, you know, elite athletes, elite cyclists of the world. And to be fair, there wasn't anybody in the top 30 rankings in that race. So Remco wasn't there, Vinegar wasn't there, and Roglic wasn't there. So I can't wait to see what happens at the Tour if those guys are all fit and healthy and the four of them are against each other, and Jo Hindley's there, and, you know, there's other riders who are. Who are wanting to put their hands up as well, so it'll be good to see what happens when there's more competition. And I'm not saying I'm diminishing the competition that was in the Giro, but there weren't any top 30 ranked riders other than Pogajar in that race. So. So let's just see what happens. Let's just see what happens to Pog's form between now and the Tour, which is five weeks away and it's early this year because of the Olympics, and so the dates have changed. So riding a Grand Tour and then fronting up for another Grand Tour with, you know, limited recovery time and against better riders, you know what's going to happen there. I can't wait to see what he does between now and then in terms of training. And then I. I want to talk about this like we talked about in Gabritson and Kerr, you know, looking back to, you know, did Pog ride well in the. In the Giro to. To conserve for the Tour, or did he ride? You know, we. We don't know whether he was at his max, and in a lot of the stages, we've got no idea whether it was he was doing it comfortably or. Or he was doing it hard. So these Are the questions that you know from a, from an age group or. We're trying to learn about. You can't do everything. You've got to pick A races and B races and, and you know, as a, as a world leading rider, he's, he's doing the hardest thing, which is doing two of the big grand tours back to back and, and you know, as age groupers, we wouldn't want people to do two Ironmans that close because, you know, we don't have the same facilities that an elite cyclist has with recovery and, and you know, the right science behind getting them to rest during the day. All of the age groups we have, all have jobs and all have families and there is no recovery. It's, it's you using sleep as your recovery, whereas the elite athletes have, you know, masseurs, exercise physiologists, just helping them with all those specific stuff. So, so it's really, it's really going to be interesting to see how, how the next sort of six weeks pans out and, and who, who comes up strong and who's left what wanting. And I can't wait to see this period. It's just such an exciting period this year with the Olympics and, and the Tour at the same time.

Yeah, it was shaping up to be one of the greatest Tour de France's of all time. And I think just to rectify it was top 20 GC riders, I think, not top 30 because I think Geraint Thomas was the 20th and there was a bunch more below him. And also Ben o' Connor is, is ranked sixth or something, or seventh, although he had quite a disappointing jiro. But yeah, hopefully any one of the big four, Roglich, Remco or Vanguard can turn to the Tour de France fit and healthy. Otherwise POG has just got to clean it up. But that seems unlikely that after their crashes any of them will get back in, in really great form. But here's to hoping because if Poggy was gonna have his best chance ever of winning both, you know, it is this year and you wouldn't want to put an asterisk next to it. You know, you can only turn up to who you race against. But you know, with all of them fit and healthy, it would have been a, a monumental task for him to win both. But we'll see how it plays out and that, you know, we've been talking about kind of the mindset around racing this whole time. We really want to dive into the mindset for age groupers and how you go about, you know, your mindset for your own race and, and really making sure that you are in the right frame of mind to perform at your best. I think that's the key here and not letting any, the aura of race day or the race day nerves get the better of you. And so I kind of actually want to start with your success in your own career. You've had a very successful career in terms of winning and that's not important for the age grouper, but it is important because it, it shows a sustained and consistent mindset, I think from yourself because it actually was result based. You were an athlete who was aiming for results and not just not necessarily improvements or pbs. And so that comes with a different kind of frame of mind as a professional athlete. So I want to kind of ask you to start with what were you thinking about or what kind of things do you think about to get yourself in the right mindset on race day? If you think about those big races where the result mattered, whether it was winning the Australian Ironman title or even in your age group career where you know, you turned up and you really had goals of winning Australian road racing titles and the place mattered and not the, necessarily the performance.

Yeah, I think it's from the outset you probably, you've hit the nail on the head. It can be results based and that can be a problem I think for a lot of athletes. And that can cause more anxiety if you just base everything that you're doing based on that finishing result. And I did that and that certainly put pressure on myself. No one else put that pressure on. I did that to myself, but I did that intentionally because that's what got me out of bed each day to train properly. And if I got to any of those big races that I wanted to win desperately and I didn't, then I would be satisfied that I'd done everything that I could to get that right. And invariably if I didn't get the result, it would because I not ticked all the boxes along that journey. And there's a lot of boxes you have to tick such as sleep recovery, training, strength and conditioning, nutrition, you know, then on race dates, in a cycling race, it's tactics, you know, how good are your tactics? That plays a big, a big role in it. And then making right decisions in that race. And you know, I'm talking road racing or criterion racing, time trialling is also making decisions about what to do on certain parts of the course. But you're not responding to other people's aggression or lack of aggression. You're, you know, you're trying to create an opportunity for you to perform the best you can and when to attack people when you think they're on their knees or is this a good time to attack? And so there's a lot that goes into getting that end result. So it's kind of a ridiculous way to measure your effort based on did you get the result you wanted and did you get the title that you're after? So the only way that I could get my mindset to think along those lines was if I did the preparation and I was confident in everything I'd done before the race, I would have less anxiety about the outcome. And if on the day something happened someone was better than me, I was absolutely okay with that. And in fact I was. That was almost more motivation to. I'm going to make sure that doesn't happen next time. What do I need to do to fix that so that I get a better result? But I would be not down on myself unless I didn't do something in the preparation. Well, then I'd be really angry with myself, not for the result, but that I didn't do the work required. And so I based a lot of my mindset going into races and not getting up anxious about them was if I'd done the work, I was super confident that I should be able to execute. And that to me was the key to a lot of the successes I had was being prepared, doing the work, being consistent. And then that that transferred into my race. And I raced as a confident athlete because I'd done the research in. I looked back at the training sessions and, and all the numbers I was doing. And now I'm saying to myself, I can ride up the 10 minute hill at now 320 watts. If anybody else can do better than that, well, they're better than me. I can't do anything about that. But I don't know if there's many people that can do this. I knew my numbers were better than I'd ever done before. This is an example of what my mindset was thinking before the race and going into the race with calmness of confidence. And that's the thing that we try to push across to our athletes is going back and doing some homework about your training and being informed about what numbers can I do. So that comes race day, you can match those numbers and do better because on race day you should be fresher and you don't want to just match what you've done before. You want to match it and then add some to it. So Yeah, I certainly did race with a lot of pressure that was put on myself, by myself, but I did it for a reason, because that was going to get the best out of me. And I knew what buttons to push on myself because I didn't have a coach that was saying me, this is what you're supposed to be doing or feeling. And so I think I learned a lot about, you know, what's more important, the actual finishing result. Yes, that mattered a lot to me and that was super important. But if I'd done everything well and I didn't get that result, I had the mindset before going into the race that I'd be okay with that. If I'd done everything well, if I raced race to my level and someone was better than me and I'd done all the preparation, I'm absolutely okay with that. And I think if you have that mindset right from the outset, you're going to enjoy your sport so much more because it's not just about the results and, you know, the improvement in the pb, they're just as equal. I've said to people I've won some races where I didn't actually execute very well. I didn't train that well for it, and the competition might not have been that good on the day, even though it was a national title. And then I've had and I've won and I've not been that satisfied because I knew that I. I didn't do the best that I could possibly have done. I've had other races where I've done the best and I've come third or fourth, and I've been quite satisfied because there were people better than me, and that's as good as I could do. So if I can get that message across to people, I think it takes pressure off yourself at the end of the event, knowing that, well, that's all I could do on the day, and either I was good enough on the day or there was someone better than me and be okay with that.

That's the reason I asked you the question is because whether you're vying for result or a PB or improvement, potentially a podium, the lessons come down to the same thing. And I actually want to use Jakob's example again, because it even applies from what he said. He said after the race that when he was asked about tactics, he said, with running and these races, generally the strongest runner will win. If you're the strongest runner, you're going to come out on top. And so he has confidence in himself that Come the Olympics, he will be the strongest runner. And he said, but he said the strongest runner will win as long as they execute properly and they don't make any mistakes tactically. And what, what do you mean by that? He said they don't spend any extra energy where they don't need to. And that was a real big standout point to me. And that is what applies to age group is in performance and mindset is can you make sure that you execute well and put yourself in a frame of mind where you don't. You're not wasting any energy in the wrong parts of the race and that way you get the most out of yourself. So I think one of the most valuable things we do at Trivelo and I really like this part of our process is that our race week and our race day preparation, we're really thorough with this because I still think that execution and mindset is one of the most underrated and underutilized factor for an age group is performance and, and result at the end. And the result comes from how you execute the process. And yeah, a lot of athletes or a lot of people assume that when you've done the work like you've talked about, you can turn up on race day and the race will take care of itself. And I think that's definitely not what you're saying, you know, and I don't think, I think, yeah, that could not be more wrong. It's. You still have to execute. You've done all the work to give you confidence, but you still have to execute. If you don't execute properly, if you put your efforts down at the wrong times, you will not get the reward for all your work. So, yeah, I mean, you've had. Okay, yep.

No, I've just got, I can just think of 10 athletes that are in that situation. They are extremely well prepared and because of tactics or execution, not getting the actual result they want, but they should because they have form and the preparation. All right, and exactly what you said. It's just not about one thing. It's a combination of getting a lot of things right. And as, as Ingrid Bridson said, you know, I can be the strongest on the day, but I put the power down as a runner in the wrong part of the race. And I ran three wide and ran an extra eight meters. You know, the fine lines at that level and you use filter that way back down to an age group athlete. You can't afford to do a lot of things wrong in a triathlon. It's going to have Such a flow on effect if you, if you start the ride way above your numbers because everybody else around you is riding hard, or if you start the run, you know, 10, 15 seconds faster than your actual ability, you're just going to. That's poor execution, which is going to prevent you. Even though you're really prepared and you could not be fitter, but you've just made a mistake on the execution. As a, as a road racing cyclist, there's parts in the race that count where a brake goes up the road and you haven't seen it and you've missed the brake. So now you're in a position where you're possibly the strongest rider in the race and there's guys up the road who are not as strong as you, but they've executed better than you because they've made a tactical move. And here you are stuck with a decision, what do I do I have to do? I have to ride across that gap to join them. You're almost now riding with your hands tied behind your back because of a tactical error. Nothing to do with your fitness. And they're just little examples of. It takes a whole combination of things to get the result that you want. And you need to be super confident about all your preparation. That's the first thing. But then if you don't get up to race day and execute, stay in your lane and time trialling, I suppose is easier than a road race because road race has got so many variations and variables that make decision making. You have to really think on your feet quite quickly because the race can be won or lost in your lack of concentration for five seconds. When you don't react straight away when the right move goes up the road. And that's the end of the race pretty much. So in a time trial you've got things to think about. Execution around terrain and wind and temperature. You've got to make those decisions. As a marathon runner, you might start the run, and I've always said this as an example I'm going to talk about at the start of a fun run, even a park run, your running pace might be 4 minutes 30. That's your best 5K burger running pace. And on that start line there might be 60 other runners and there'll be three who can run 320 pace, there'll be four who can run 350 pace, there'll be 10 who can run 410 pace and there'll be 60 who can run 5 minute pace or worse. And everybody in the first K runs the same pace. And that's an example of there's only two people in that first K running the right pace. The guys who can run 320, they're the only two running at their pace. The rest of the 60 runners are all running ahead of their pace. So that's an example of not staying in your lane, getting the execution wrong. Let everybody run off at their own pace. They're making the mistake. You be that 1% who's not going to do that, and you be that 1% of person who's going to run right from the outset, your 4:30 pace. And after 100 meters, you're literally 50 meters behind the whole lot of the field. And if you stick to that, stick to your lane, stick to your pace, gradually those people who are running 320s and 340s who are 5 minute K pace runners, they'll end up slowing down after a kilometer or 2 kilometers or whatever the distance is. They will eventually be running 5 30s instead of 5 minutes, and you will be running 4:30 and you'll run through the field. And that's an example of execution as a runner, where it's so easy to do that. And I see it almost every park run that I, I go to and I watch people all charge off at the same pace. Whereas you know that yourself, Jordan. You've won most of the park runs you've been in and you've got eight people ahead of you. You know, you're gonna run 3:13 pace and you've got guys who are literally gonna run 18 minutes for 5K, and you're running 15:50, yet they're ahead of you or beside you. And you'd have to say, oh, you're a good runner now, are you? Or you just got it wrong. You just got your pacing wrong. So they're examples of having perfect fitness, perfect preparation, but just blowing it with the dumbest decision making.

Yeah. And it's a message you always say is you feel like you're doing the wrong thing. And I just can't tell you how often I had that feeling. And there was a specific race a few months ago, which was an 8K, and there was literally, I won the race and there was literally over 20 people ahead of me for the first 3K. And I really thought, whoa, there's some, some good competition here because it wasn't just 1k, it was a full 3km of where there was 15 to 20 people ahead of me. And then at the 3k mark, you started ticking them off one by one. But that was that was super surprising. And, and you do feel like you're doing the wrong thing. And that's a big lesson you're always telling athletes is you just, you said stay in your lane before. You just have to stay in your lane. And if they can hold that for the rest of the race and you go, whoa, this is a, this is a good race, this is some good competition. But yeah, you back your own process and what you've gone to the race thinking about. So you've had thousands of.

Just on that time. It does mess with your mind because you think you're making, you think you're making a mistake, but you've just got to bring it back to if there, if there are 20 runners ahead of me and I'm running the pace I want to, so be it. You shouldn't change anything. You shouldn't try to run faster. You know, it's identifying that there's 20 people ahead of you shouldn't make any difference to what you're doing. You should just stay with what your pace is. And if they're going to run that pace the whole way, then you're going to be 20th instead of winning and that's where you end up.

So, yeah, one thing I love is the pre race chat and you've had many of them over your coaching career, thousands of pre race chats. And I want to dive into some of the keys to that conversation and what you're trying to get across. And one of the main questions is how do you address the anxiety of the race? Because it's there with every single athlete. So how do you address the anxiety of the race with an athlete?

Yeah, and I think reminding them. And this is why we do the race plan. We make all our athletes present us with an essay basically that's summarizing what their race strategy is going to be on the day and what's the purpose of that? Well, a, it informs them and informs the coach. About what? What their expectation. You know, we always talk about getting your ambition and your ability aligned and not getting those things too far apart. So there's, that's the first goal is to make sure the athlete and the coach are on the same page with what they think the power should be, the average speed on the bike and what the pace should be as a runner. And of course the swim is the swim. You're doing your best and you know, you don't get a lot of feedback unless you're using form goggles where you can see what your pace and your, and your Time and stuff is, but generally you're just swimming to feel. But on the bike you've got more control and as a runner you've got absolute control of what pace you can run at. So we're trying to build a confidence. So making people go back through their history of training is something that will do one or two things. It'll highlight the fact that they've trained poorly and therefore they need to adjust their program plan, their race day plan down or they've realized that they've trained unbelievably well where they haven't actually sat down and got perspective of that. And so either way we're still going to give them confidence about what their race plan is based on their research about their training preparation. So if you've done very little race sessions, race ready sessions, you don't have a lot of history to look at. If you've done six or eight race ready bike sessions with run off the bikes, you've got a lot of library of wealth of information to give you confidence that the strategy and the pace that you've put down into your race plan is based on true facts, actual training sessions, and that is hugely confidence boosting to the athlete. And they come to the realization, well, I've done that many times. I've hit 200 watts for that 70k or that 60k or that 90k time trial that we did in training. And this is how I felt. And then I was able to run off the bike at, at 4:30 pace. And these are the reasons why I've got this in my race plan is because I've done it in training. And you going back and looking at those sessions gives you the confidence that your race plan that you've selected is based on true facts and you've done it in training. And you're fitter than what you were in those race ready training weeks because you had a full load of training during the week and then you did a race ready session on the weekend. Now you've got all that fitness in your bank and you've got some tapering. So those numbers should be being able to be matched very comfortably. You still got to concentrate on that. But they're the numbers you've done in training. So your expectation should be that you could do that confidently. So when you're standing on the beach at the start of the race, as a triathlete, or as a runner at the start of the marathon, or a Half Marathon or 10K, whatever it is, you know that your race plan is based on facts about what you've done in training. And you should be hugely confident that if your strategy in that day is accurate, then you should be able to just go out and execute. So that's really the first thing we're wanting the athlete to do, is do some homework. And that's the reason, is to give them a clear understanding of where their form is. Whether it's average form, better than average form, or perfect form, or really poor form, we have an understanding of where our form is, and therefore our race strategy should reflect that. And you know that the outcome of the race will be based on how well you're prepared. And if how well you prepared is not the way you want, you would have liked it, but you couldn't do anything about it. And you've arrived at race day with this form. You have to have the race plan based around that form, not what you thought you could have done if you had it trained well. And I think if you get that wrong, that can be a ruined day. And. And I think. I think once you lose your ego and say, this is where I'm at, based on my training, you'll actually have a good day. And you should be confident whether your preparation is poor or not. You should be confident that I can actually do this on the race day.

It's. Yeah. The answer to the question of how do you get rid of the anxiety is you need to focus on the facts. And when you're focusing on that, and that's why we've talked about the race plan so many times in these podcasts, is when you focus on the numbers, then you are automatically not focusing on the nerves of what could go wrong with anxiety. You're actually just focused on the execution of what to do. And so I guess once you've got all that down pattern, you're focusing on the right things. Once you get to the actual day, the race day is a big occasion and there is a lot that happens. You're up early, you've got the nerves from the night before where you might have lacked a little bit of sleep. The awe of the occasion can be sometimes overwhelming. When you turn up, there's a lot of energy, there's a lot of adrenaline, there's lots of noise going on. It's totally different to when you go out training by yourself. So how do you then handle the occasion of the day and what's your instruction to athletes for the actual day and being in the right mindset when the gun goes off?

Yeah, we did talk about it a little bit before which is staying in your lane. And I use that term a lot. Just put yourself into a bubble and almost put a set of headphones on. I don't mean this literally. I mean so that you can.

Oh, you can do that. I've done that. I definitely do that. Yep.

But in a race, I certainly don't want you, I want you to be aware of what's going on around you. I thought you meant warm up, cooling up and stuff. I'm talking about actually, you know, I should go back to the warm up. You know, you should just do your routine and whatever's worked for you before, you should replicate that. And we really want to push our athletes. As a, as a marathon runner, you would do certain bit of walking, a little bit of running, a few little stride outs. As a triathlete you would want to do a little bit of a jog, make sure your bike's all functioning well in transition, make sure all the gears are working, there's no flat tires, all that sort of stuff. And then do a swim where you're actually in the water, if you're allowed to, and swim for 2 or 300 meters and then do a couple of 30 second bursts so that when you go to start your race you've actually done some warm up. So they're the things that are going to give you a little bit of less anxiety because you're actually, you're actually doing something with purpose. So the more bored you are, the more anxiety you're going to create. Standing around talking to people is not a good thing to do. So you need to be having a little schedule about how your preparation is and try to arrive to the point of where you want to be at the race, at the start line, as early or as late as you want. But, but don't try to have periods where you're just standing around. You know, you can go off and sit by yourself or do some extra walking or whatever you like, but you know, and even if you are getting prepared in your, in your tent and you're getting the stuff on, you know, just be there, be efficient, get some help with putting the wetsuit on if you're doing that, or as a runner, just making sure you've got someone with your bag and all that sort of stuff's important, but that takes away the anxiety of the actual race. So you want to be thinking about, you know, what you're going to do in the next hour or half an hour or in some cases five hours, depending on what event you're doing. But Certainly cutting out the noise is what I'm trying to say. You know, just, oh, you should go. Well today, Jordan. That's a really encouraging thing for someone to say. It's great that people are really, you know, on your side. But you know, straight away that's given you that word expectation. We don't want that expectation. We just want, we want to concentrate on effort and execution. They're the things we want to concentrate on. And when we put expectation as one of those three things, then things change and you think about the wrong things. So expectation is what you want to do and that's that ability, ambition. But if you're just talking about effort and execution and the expectation of the result is not something you should concentrate on. That's actually, that's causing you to have the wrong thoughts and let your mind wander onto wrong things and creates anxiety. And if you've ever had a heart rate meter at the start line, if you're thinking about relaxing and, and what, what are my plan in the swim and how am I going to go about, you know, the stroke I'm thinking about and, or if you're thinking about, I need to do this time the heart rate will be different, I guarantee it. Adrenaline with expectation thoughts, adrenaline with a calmness thought, you will have a different heart rate. And I've done it to myself on the start line many times. I'm thinking, God, this race is going to be hard today. And all of a sudden my heart rate's at 90 and it shouldn't be, it should be sitting, you know, around 60 or 70 at the start of the race. And they're examples of thinking about the wrong thing. And I think, you know, the noise that's around you contributes to that. So just, just try to be in a bubble and, and even, even when the race starts, when, when everybody around you, let's just take the fun run again example, everybody around you just takes off and your immediate response is, ah, I need to go with that. Well, get back in your bubble, check your time, slow, slow right down to where you should be. And that's what I talk about, staying in lane. That's what I mean, being in the bubble and just letting the external noise, the runners running way ahead of their own pace, let them do all that and you just stay with where you are. And that, that takes a lot of patience and a lot of strong mental toughness to not get sucked in. And a lot of times that's why we put you into fun run events, so that when you come to your Main race, you're not going to get sucked in again because you've already, you know, if I asked you after those, I think you did the sunset series, there were three races and the very first race, your anxiety levels before race one was you don't know who you're against, you don't know the standard, you know if you're going to be 20th, you don't know if it's going to be the winner. And you're just thinking about things that are so different compared to race two and race three where you've already got an expectation of the runners around you and you know who is in the race and you know what your pacing is available to you and you've just learned so much from race one about your form at the moment. And these are the numbers you can do. And you would have had less anxiety with race two and race three, would that be true?

For sure, yeah. And yeah, absolutely. And the more you experience it, the more you make mistakes in the races that don't count and then you can perform on the way ones that count. Yeah, absolutely true.

And that's the point I want to make doing these practice events so that when it comes to race day, you have had that experience of if I do that and run off with these guys, I'm going to end up blowing the race up. So if you don't have that practice experience from these other races, you will do it on the main race, I guarantee it. You don't have that strong will enough to trust your own race plan and strategy. And that's what I'm talking to people about in their pre race event is stay in your lane. Don't get sucked in with people around you. You don't know whether they're in great form and you might know that person and you know that I normally beat that person, but they're ahead of me, they're making a mistake. Just understand that that's, that's probably what is happening. They're the one that's making the mistake, not you. And if you just keep concentrating on other people all the time, it's taking away from what you should be thinking about, which is yourself and what am I doing in this situation? And that's why I'm saying be in that bubble, almost have blinkers on. And a little example we'd use is when we do one of these swift time trials where we have a mass start and we've got 70 people on a mass start and I'm telling a lot of the guys who want to Talk to me about how do I go about this. There's all these people around me and I'm saying to them, I don't even look at the Zwift screen for the first five minutes. I am just looking down. I know the race has started. I'm not looking at anybody on the screen. I'm looking at my number on my bike computer. And I want to ride at 270 watts for that first three or four minutes. I don't care what's happening on the screen. And that's an example of just concentrating on the things that matter to you that's going to make you perform well. And then after four or five minutes, I'll glance up and say who's around me? And then I'll concentrate back on what my bike computer is telling me. And then I'll look up again. Oh, yes, somebody looks like. And all of a sudden I'm starting to use the competition of the event to challenge me now. And if I get to 15 minutes, I am now racing everybody. And I'm almost not looking at my bike computer at all because the race is going to finish in five minutes. So I'm using the competition around me to push myself. So that's a strategy that I use to keep me in my lane and then once I've got control of the event, then try to be competitive and race people. That's an example of what I'm talking about. You know, I don't want you to stay in your lane the whole time and just, I want you to still race. But there's a, there's a point when you do that in a race as a marathon runner or as a, a triathlete or as a bike rider, time trialer. You can't do that until you get control of the event and then you can start racing.

Yeah, look, so much value in everything you just said. And I think the bubble thing is so appropriate. And again, as with all things age grouper, it's a fine line between how much do you want to act like a professional and how much do you know that we're age groupers and we don't need to take it too seriously because you want to perform your best. You've done all this work and training and you want to be in your bubble as much as possible to give yourself the best chance of succeeding. But the friends and family example is a funny one, because when you get there on race day, one thing that is often forgotten and that you don't expect is how many people you're going to talk to because there might be a whole bunch of people from your club. There might be more family and friends around you than you've ever had because you've been by yourself in all your training sessions now. There's all these people around and you haven't actually had to deal with that before. And so they've come to support you. You don't want to be rude and ignore them because completely. But you do have to set the expectation of, of what you need on race day, what's going to help you and, and allow for that in, in that process. And know that there's going to be a period where you want to talk to your family, friends, and then you need to say to them, okay, now I'm warming up. I'm going to get into. Into race mode here and I'll bring up back up in Briston for a record time in a podcast. But he's. He did some great. He did some great content while he was injured with his wife. And they did a great little interview just going into kind of the behind the scenes of their, Their, their life and training and racing. And, and she made a really interesting point that coming into an actual race, she's feeling the nerves. She feels like just as much as him coming into a championship race. And she said, we stop going out for the last few weeks. We stop seeing many people because the risk of getting sick is too great. And so she has to sacrifice herself and stop seeing friends and going out of the house. And she does that for him. And it was a great representation of what your partner can do sometimes to help you achieve your goals. But, but it really brings up a good point about if you're really serious about getting the most out of yourself, it's okay to say to people around you and say to your family and friends on the day, this is what I need to perform at my best today. This is all the work I've been doing. Here's how I want to go about my bubble or my process to really get the most out of myself. I think that's a really appropriate and good way to handle the awe of the occasion and be in the right mindset to perform at your best. And then you can celebrate at the end when you've executed really well.

Yeah, the transition's always intriguing to me because that's where the crowd is and, you know, you get out of the water and people screaming at you, you know, go, go, go on your bike. And that's great. That's exactly what you want to have happen people supporting you. And then when you come back in off the bike, you've probably been out in the wilderness out there, and all of a sudden you're back in the crowd. And the adrenaline, you can't help it. You're excited because your family's there and they're really cheering you on. And without knowing it, you're just running off the bike, just way too fast, out of transition. I just see it all the time, and it makes me chuckle. And I'm forever standing about 100 meters after transition, just saying to people, take it easy, relax. And all of a sudden you can see them go, oh, oh, oh. Yeah. Because they've run 100 meters away from their family who are cheering them. They're still on this adrenaline rush. And that's a funny thing to observe, but you've just got to try. It's so hard to be disciplined. I want you still to have fun and be, you know, be smiling and enjoying the thing. I don't want you to be serious. That's not what I'm saying. I want you to be serious enough about what your goals are and what your execution is. You can still do it with a smile on your face and enjoy the whole process and wave to your family. And, you know, it's not. It's not like you're at the world titles as an elite athlete where you, you know, the country's relying on you to perform. But, you know, in this situation, you know, you need to be relaxed. And the more relaxed you are and enjoying the process, the more likely the outcome is going to be what you want, and you just don't want to be too serious. And the more serious you are, the tenser you are. And the more tenser you are, the tighter you are, and you're just not performing with freedom. So if I could say one thing, be confident with what you've done in preparation and stay in your lane, and then enjoy the process of knowing that, you know, whatever preparation I've done for this event, I've managed to work out my race strategy according to that level that I'm at, whether it's 100 or 50, you're just racing at that level and enjoy the day and live to fight another day. If you know that, you know, you sucked at your preparation, you know you didn't do what you wanted, you weren't consistent. And, you know, and that's a motivating challenge for you for next. Next time you line up, you're not going to do that again. You don't keep repeating that mistake. And for the others who have done exactly what they want, you know, enjoy that process and, and be happy with that and, and smell the roses a bit and, and don't move on too quickly, you know, enjoy what you've achieved. And I think, I think that's, you know, that's the mindset that you should have all the way through. And if, if we're talking about how you're thinking about your, you as an athlete, these are the things that are going to help you be in the sport for a long time. If you have the opposite thought process of it's all about results and get angry with the performance, you're not going to last, you're going to give the sport away because it's not enjoyable when you're thinking like that. So you do actually want to be in this sport for a long period of time. I know that because I talk to people all the time, but they get really jack of it because their mindset's actually going about it the wrong way. And if you just change that a little bit, give yourself a little bit more, be kinder to yourself and understand that, you know, it's not intentional that you didn't train well, you know, things happened, but you know, if you better plan and prepare next time, you can change that and still enjoy the sport.

That's great. Final words and I think that's why I love the pre race chat. It just gives you so much confidence and calmness about going into the race, which is what we're aiming for. And I would like to finish off with some words from professional tennis player or former professional tennis player Ash Barty, former world number one three time Grand Slam champion, French Open, Wimbledon Open and Australian Open which on home soil is arguably one of the toughest to wins as an Aussie because there is so much quote, unquote pressure. And I want to talk about one of her quotes in her press conferences leading to the Australian Open final where she got asked, how are you handling all the pressure, the pressure from the country, the weight of the country on your shoulders? And she just sat there and said to the reporter, what pressure? And the reporter's going, you're joking, right? Like you're an Aussie going to the grand final. There is undoubtedly pressure and she's going, no, there's not. You can think of the pressure. I don't feel any pressure. I'm just going to go out there and play my best tennis and if I win, I win. If I don't, I don't and they're almost laughing at her going, that's ridiculous. You want to win a shy and open. And she's just going on, so ridiculous. I'm just going to play my best tennis and that's all that matters for me. And I just think that is absolutely brilliant. That's the exact example of what you're talking about with staying in your lane. So I think if she can do it as a world number one with the quote, unquote pressure on her shoulders, I think we can all take a lesson from that. So it's been a monster episode. Thanks, as always, for listening. And as always, we'll see you on the next one. Sa.