TriVelo Goes Pro: Tom & Roland’s Debut 70.3

Welcome to a brand new series of the podcast. We're very excited to bring you this series because we have two of our young superstars, Tom Page and Roland Crantock, two names you've all heard a lot on this podcast. Two of our gun age group triathletes who have been making a name for themselves the last few years and have taken their pro license this year. It's their first year on the pro circuit and we decided that we're going to bring you along the journey and you see their results. But behind every single race result there is some really big ups and downs in terms of the stories of what got them there. And we had Tom on the podcast late last year after he's world's 70.3 age group win where he gave great insight into a lot of the things it took to get that win. So we thought it'd be a great idea to get Tom and Roland on as they're such good friends, which is kind of the best part about this, to share their just insights into their first year on the pro circuit, share some stories, share some behind the scenes about the mindset it takes, the training they're doing, their expectations of races and then race plans and how it all unfolds. We get a lot of athletes tell us that they're tracking Tom and Roland in the races. I don't know if you guys feel that pressure, but a lot of our travel athletes and other age group is always tracking exactly how you're going and want to know the story behind the results. So, Tom, Roland, thank you very much for joining us and we're really excited about this series.

Pleasure, thanks for, thanks for having us on.

Jordy. Yeah, thanks so much, guys. Really honored to be here.

Now this, this is going to be the first kind of problem with the, with the series is that there's four of us on here, so we're going to have to figure out how. We're going to talk over each other and I'll really try and do my best job, ask one of you a specific question at a time so you know who to answer. But we want to start back at the first part of this kind of journey and that's the decision to take your pro license this year. So you both thought about it a lot, had discussions with your coach, the super coach here, and there are a lot of factors that went into the decision making. So, Roland, I'll start with you. How did this decision unfold and what was the kind of turning point where you decided that, yeah, this is, you Want to give it a crack?

Yeah, well, I remember having the discussion with Jared last year because I was actually tossing. Tossing up whether or not to, I guess, try and have a crack at it last year in 2024. But Jared had the good reason to maybe see how things went with working for a year or so and tempering that with, you know, still keeping it with the age group triathlon for a year, which in hindsight was probably quite a sensible decision. Um, so, yeah, that, that really was where it stemmed from. So I was actually thinking about it a year earlier, I guess. Always wanted to just try and push myself to the highest limit that I could probably try and do. And not that you can't do that in the age group field by any means, but it just seemed like the, I guess, next step that I wanted to take to try and push myself in a, obviously a high quality field where you're, you know, really having to dig deep, just even be in the, you know, mid to backpack of any, any of the three fields. So, yeah, it's always something that I wanted to try and aspire to do. But as I said after last year working and balancing that with, yeah, working full time in the hospital and doing the age group triathlon, we decided that could give it a crack this year. And so, yeah, it's definitely been a bit of, a, bit of a change to how I think we're tackling things this year.

And then you landed on by end of the year thinking, all right, you can handle work. Which, by the way, it was your first year as a doctor, so. First year in the hospital.

That's correct, yeah. It was actually second year. Yeah, second year for me, but I think it was the first year, like first year out of doing internships, so where the, I guess, expectations are a little bit more and your work hours are not quite as sociable, so you'd end up doing a lot of, you know, shift work. And I think I ended up doing like a two months or something of night shifts last year, I reckon. So it was pretty tricky, you know, blending that with trying to train, especially if I was considering to do that as a professional athlete. I think then it just gets, you know, quite taxing on the system.

So it's on the exact same question. Talk us through kind of the factors around your decision making and how close was the call between, you know, committing to it and not. And not committing to it and what got you over the line?

Yeah, I think it had been a bit of an ongoing conversation, I guess, with Jared for some Time and definitely towards the end of last year was considering things a bit more seriously in terms of stepping up to the pro level. I guess for me there were a few factors to consider. One being I was just coming to the end of seven years of student flexibility and lifestyle and being able to sort of fit my commitments around my training to some extent, which was really, really helpful, I think paid a big contribution towards the end of last year. Working out fairly well for me. Another factor was I actually now had to start work this year in the real world and sort of face the reality of showing up to work and having a bit more responsibility day to day. So there was sort of a couple of things I was weighing up. Yeah, I guess coming off the back of a few good results towards the tail end of last year, culminating obviously over in Taupo, I was definitely eager to keep, you know, pushing myself a bit and challenge myself and thought, yeah, being consistently, I guess difficult to compare times but feeling like I could enter some pro races and be in the mix sort of in that in the mid of the field and start to work my way up. Definitely gave me the confidence that it'd be something I can, I could take on. And yeah, through conversations with Jared, I guess that we'll get into a bit more and with Roland as well actually, but about sort of, you know, expectations and it just approaching it in a different way but not changing anything I was doing from my end sort of gave me the reassurance that it'd be, it'd be a good idea and I guess ultimately it was just, you know, I'm keen to be as fast as I can and I thought it would be the next sort of natural step to progress in, you know, in a forwards direction and keep being dragged along hopefully by the quality of the field and competition and everything as well.

One of my next challenges for this whole series is going to be is getting you to not be as humble as you always are because you're the most humble athlete we've come across and really try and extract the best information out of you because you mentioned there that you had a couple of good results towards the end of the year and I just want to make sure the audience knows that was four age group wins in a 70.3 including a world title. So yeah, Tom, you never absolutely want to brag about your results but they are some pretty exceptional results. It's as good as you can get in the age group field. And so yeah, the step up does seem like a logical choice but talk us through some of your doubts about, about stepping up and your times definitely look like they could mix with the pro field. But there's still some doubt there.

Yeah, there was still some consideration I think and I guess as Roland has touched on much talk about the race dynamics obviously very different in the, in the pro field having a mass start differently to the age group field and the, you know, the pack dynamics on the bike having a much bigger impact. So knowing that I was, you know, no secret, I'm a much poorer swimmer compared to Mumbai can run and compared to the, the field in general, whether that be age group or, or the professional field, I knew that that was not going to favor sort of my strengths in the, in the pro field being most likely out the back in the swim and then having to work my way back into the race and not being able to benefit from those who have put the work in and can swim much better and therefore benefit from those race dynamics earlier in the race. So that was something that had definitely been in my mind knowing that the different race dynamics and the nature of pro field racing would sort of expose some of my weaknesses. But I guess ultimately I decided that was something I was willing to confront and hoping that it will really drive me to make the most of what I can to improve my swimming and also keep pushing along on the bike and the run to work myself back towards the pointy end of races, hopefully in the near future in a more competitive field.

Brilliant answer. Yeah. I'll throw back to you dad. What were your thoughts on both of them and what did you say to them both? And it's hard because they're really good friends and just because they're on similar journeys doesn't mean they should make the same decisions. But they do make the same decisions. So they stay with each other before most races where they're competing with each other. It's really nice to see them and their partners all travel together a lot but that doesn't mean they should always just do what the other's doing. So how did you manage that as a coach?

Yeah, good question, Jordan. It's a great relationship you guys have got by meeting each other through the Trivalo family. It's just brilliant. And you've become really close friends and it must be hard for you too to race against each other and stay in the same apartments before races and be. And it is quite funny when we have a race pre race call and we did have a bit of a laugh at Geelong where you know, you know, I'm ringing up Tom and I'm saying, is rolling ready? Because I'm ringing him next. And. And yeah, just going through that whole process of. I remember when your age group is, you know, the strategy that I told Tom was, you know, different to the strategy that we were talking about with Roland because, you know, Tom needed to think about where he started, whereas Roland. Everybody needs to think about where they're starting in an age group race because of the dynamics of not knowing where everybody is in the field at any point of the race, whereas in a pro field, you all start together and so you know where you are in the pro field. And so that's actually a tactic in age grouping that, that we talked a lot about, didn't we, Tom and Roland, during our journeys for all those races. But this was different. This was different for this year. But getting back to the question Jord asked was the decision making around being a pro, I was really keen for Tom to really think hard about waiting till his swim improved because I felt that he was going to be racing the same way. As an age grouper, he was always in amongst the field in the swim, but in the pro race, he'll be by himself. We know that because in the age group there's guys who are similar to him or just a bit better than him and worse than him. So he's always around people. But in the pro race, he's going to be totally isolated once he loses the field, which is what happened. And that's how it panned out at Geelong. Our strategy was to hang on as long as we could warm up as well as you could and absolutely give it all to stay with that field as long as you could, because that's your ticket. And so, so my advice to Tom was, you know, don't be too quick to rush into this. I know you've been unbeaten for a year in all the races you've raced in and you're, you're quite a big fish in a little pool. And. But to rush into a pro decision where you're going to actually race exactly the same as you are as an age group, because you're going to be swimming by yourself, riding by yourself, and then you're going to be trying to, you know, race people down on the bike and race people down as a runner, and he was okay with that. That was as long as you're understanding the consequences of that decision. Then, then he said, no, that's, that's. I understand that's what's going to happen and I'm ready for that. And so So I said, great, you know, and we also talked about the impact of actually having a job where your hours are like Roland had just experienced. Tom had watched Roland for a year at work and see how fatiguing Roland's life became because he was working from 2pm till midnight four nights a week, and then from 7 till 7 all night. And the impact that has on your stress levels is incredible. Your fatigue, your sleep patterns are all thrown out of whack. And we're not belittling any other job, but being a doctor in a hospital, you have to really be concentrating because you got people's lives at stake. So it's not a matter of sleeping on the job, but you've got to be alert and it's quite a taxing mental job. So there was a lot to consider. And the decision that Roland made a year ago was to defer Deferry's pro kind of entry into triathlon, just to see what it was like to work and train. But Tom was just so keen that. That he was prepared for all those consequences. And that's. That's what the discussions. That's why it's so good because. Because you can talk through those things. And there was. So Tom's got no illusions about the. The things he's going to face with work and being tired and being sleep deprived and no illusions about his swim isn't good enough at that level just now and he's working really hard on it.

So.

So, you know, Tom's the least worried about those things now because we've discussed it and that's kind of a good thing. Whereas Roland was in a different position. Roland's swim is really, you know, at that level and he's already had a year of working, so he's kind of a little bit in a different position. It was an easier decision for Roland, I would say, even though Roland hadn't had the success that he wanted last year. And what do I mean by success? Well, he wasn't winning as much as Tom was, but he was right with Tom. Like at Geelong, he lost by 17 seconds. That's how close these two guys were in races. And there were other races where Roland had won during the journey of last year. But the impact of work Roland was well aware of and the fact that he was a decent swimmer and he had the potential to actually get the value of riding in a bunch. So they both had. We both had different discussions about. I thought it was an easier discussion decision for Roland to make to be a pro than it was for Tom. And that was. That was how we. We went about it. Would that be accurate, guys?

Yeah, Certainly agree with that, Jared. I think, you know, it's handy having, you know, have my experience last year for, you know, to inform, I guess, your and Tom's decision as well, which, you know, is obviously really good. And I try to echo what you said in that. In my mind, I wanted to try and see if I could get a bit of a benefit from, you know, taking an advantage maybe from a swim perspective and a bike perspective. Not that I'm, you know, exceptional either, those in the pro field, but just to, I guess, keep on pushing to try and progress in both of those things, like what we were doing, but at the same time, I guess at this point in our careers, Tom and I both understand I was speaking for myself, but I think Tom feels the same way. We don't really see professional triathlon as, you know, our only career path at the moment, still first and foremost a hobby as it is, I think, for, you know, 99% of the people that, you know, love and enjoy the sport. And so I think we both wanted to try and, you know, keep that. At least I did try and keep it as something that I'd really love to progress in and keep on doing. And so I appreciate, again, looking back last year, that you had a bit more of a level head in terms of biting my time between work and trying to push myself into that pro field where I might have burned myself out a little bit more quickly had I jumped straight into that and not taken the time to see what it's like working full time.

Anything from you, Tom, to add there?

Yeah, yeah, I think. I mean, it's a. Everything Jared said describes it really well. And I guess for me, without blowing too much smoke up his rear end, it was really reassuring to me as well, seeing Roland manage his training and work so well. So Roland's two years ahead of me essentially, like, in terms of our career outside of triathlon. So having seen him manage for the two years prior to this year, working, managing, training, still progressing really impressively across the board with his. With his triathlon, but also knowing that he was working at a greater capacity than I actually would be probably this year really gave me the confidence and knowing, you know, the sort of training that he was fitting in amongst his busy work schedule gave me the confidence that that was something I could pursue as well. So, yeah, I mean, we're obviously, you know, good mates and competitive out on, on the race course, but I look up to him in In a lot of ways in that aspect. And it's something that's been reassuring, but also, yeah, pretty inspiring for me to see how well he's managed that across the last couple of years and definitely given me a bit of a challenge, I guess, to. To. To match the sort of balance that he's been able to find and the continued progression. So that was definitely something that came into my decision making for sure. Knowing there was someone who I knew well and knew what sort of they were doing amongst. Busy schedule.

Yeah, the parallels among you two are just unreal. Actually, I probably should have just came out in the intro and said this, but, you know, two doctors, two good mates, two gun triathletes in the age group category, right at the top of the field.

Two rowers.

Two rowers from a rowing background. Yeah. And who are as close as, you know, 17 seconds apart in a 70.3 and both debuting for their first season as pro triathletes. It's a pretty cool intro, but let's be real, dad, what you mentioned before is actually quite hilarious with some of the race plan conversations last year when there were age groupers and you kind of. You're kind of being honest with them both and saying, look, I'm going to talk to Tom about your race plan and here's how to beat Roland. I'm not going to tell you what I'm telling Roland, but here's what, here's how to beat Roland and, and Roland, here's how you need to beat Tom. And you're not. You have to be careful with. You're not being disadvantages to either of them by giving away plans, but you do need to talk to them separately about their own plan. And, and Tom, I think you sabotaged Roland a little bit, maybe with your final race of the year where you got him sick for the world, 70.3. Was that all part of the big plan? Was it?

I can't disclose any information about that, unfortunately. Journey.

Rowan, would you rethink staying together again after that experience?

Oh, certainly not. It's always more the experience than the outcome, I think. And we had a lot of good times there. I think, as you say, as Jared was saying as well, you know, you're asking whether or not there's any awkwardness with us staying together. But, you know, at the end of the day, as you say, we're just very good mates. And so it's always, you know, I look forward to these events more than anything, just to see some of the friends that I haven't seen in a while. And so it's always a good time just to catch up before a race and half the time I hardly even thinking about the race. We're just sort of hanging out, having a good time and trying to just get a bit of training and doing what we both love to do before we go out and have a race. And then when it comes to actually race day, I think Tom had the opportunity to probably, you know, let me miss the entire race because I actually slipped through my alarm on Sunday morning from Geelong and he, he said he waited. He waited 15 minutes and luckily I woke myself up. But he said I was going to give you just one more minute and then I was going to come and wake you up. But I think at that time we had to leave in about five minutes. So, you know, it's pretty generous of him, but.

More ungenerous in thinking he can throw you off by leaving.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Never seen him again outside.

He was already stretching. Tom had already stretched. He'd had three coffees, had practices all sorted fully in his tracksuits and everything. And I was still in my pajamas, like, didn't know what country I was in, but.

Yeah, well, your. Your day didn't start too well, Roland, by the sound of it. It got worse in the swim and you got kicked in the face. So it was probably one of the, One of the. It was an omen really. Was it? You should have probably slept in maybe.

I think, you know, if I. Listen go. I think if I slept in every single day, I probably just wouldn't get up and do anything. So sometimes you just got to do it.

So let's jump into the race a bit and give the people what they want to hear and talk about the expectations of the race and the race plan and how it all unf. Unfolded and we will get into it and we might jump around a little bit in terms of some things. But one point you mentioned there, Roland, was Tom's caffeine intake. And Tom, I actually wanted to ask you because we had a conversation a year prior about you're having some GI issues with the amount of caffeine you're having and you told me how much and I was going, shit, mate, that is. That's almost double the daily cap, which I thought you, you might know that as a doctor, but have you changed your caffeine strategy and how much, how much. How many coffees are you having pre race now and. And caffeine ingestion during the race?

Yeah, I did think I was Trying to be Kristen Bloomfield a little bit too much for a little while there. But I think I've. Yeah, I've. I'm not taking a caffeine gel pre race now. I'm just having sort of a coffee a bit closer to the race as opposed to when I get up and then still having a couple of caffeine gels on the bike. I actually had a caffeine gel on the run as well at Geelong. I think I'm. I'm developing a better. My nutrition strategies have been something that's troubled me earlier in my age group triathlon career, but I think it's something I'm getting on top of, which has been very relieving given that. Yeah. Had a few close calls previously.

All right, let's get into the race. Dad, did you have something to say?

Yeah, I was just going to say, look, for those who don't know, Tom's had a lot of breathing trouble and with a lot of his running. And I think a lot of it's just to do with nutrition getting that wrong. And it's taken a lot of races, hasn't it, Tom, to really fine tune that down to. Actually, it's so debilitating when you know you're fit and you actually can't do it because you've got tight chest or a stitch or you're actually really uncomfortable and you need to go to the toilet. And you've been in that position pretty much every race until we really strip back your. What are you doing here in your nutrition? And, you know, for all of those guys listening, girls and guys listening out there, it doesn't. It's just not one. One thing fits. Every race is different. The temperature of the race, we're talking off air, you know, the Mooloolaba race on the weekend, it was just high humidity and really hot weather. And that affects the amount of nutrition you can take. And on cold days, you don't need as much because you're not sweating as much. And so there's so many variations that you'll have to experience in training so that when it comes to race day, you've got trialed them all in training and I think that's what you've done. Well, Tom, is to actually get on top of that because it was really affecting. Well, it was causing you to actually not compete the way you wanted to.

Yeah, I definitely. Yeah, definitely am grateful. Things seem to have smoothed out a bit on that front. What was even more frustrating was, was seeing the ungodly concoction of Race fuel that Roland would put together the tape fryer and somehow still have very little GI issues the and eat a plank of wood or something and still have no trouble. So I was there dialing in you know, numbers on a calculator and gram by gram and timing and everything and he'd be pouring variations of sugary drinks and stuff in bowls and mixing this magic mystery solution together. But yeah it has played a big factor. I never always try and not think about it during the race in terms I know my plan and I just try and not think about if I'm having any issues I don't want to bring them on. But I've yeah had had a good run of a few races without much trouble. So that has certainly allowed me to yeah compete a bit more freely particularly on the run which has been yeah really. Yeah a really good change from, from prior.

So Roland, can you actually enlighten us on your strategies?

And just as a note for the listen for the listener, I think we've mentioned this before but Roland, how tall are you?

Oh like 197cm.

So what is that?

Six five?

Six.

Five. We'll give you six. Six. So you must have like this big stomach of an ox that can just say anything but. Yeah but take us through it.

It's, it's not, I mean it is, it is bad when Tom puts it out like that but I'm just not quite as dialed in I guess with my nutrition as other athletes are. I haven't quite prescribed yet to some of the the brand name resources that are out there just yet. So what I tend to do is just have a look down the supermarket aisle which I guess caffeinated drinks, soft drinks offer the highest carbohydrate to you know, weight. Well one of it is milliliter, you know in per bottle usually I think Pepsi or Coke is one of the best ones because they've also got caffeine in them too but an undisclosed amount and so I think it's roughly 10 grams of carbs per 100 mils. And then so I mix some electrolytes and a bit more sugar into some of those drinks which ends up making it you know, close to probably 15 grams per 100 mils and then make sure they're decarbonated as well because I think that would be a recipe for disaster. But yeah, it's just tend to what I do for training. It keeps the costs down I guess and I quite enjoy it. I haven't had any issues thus far but probably could Find some benefit if I dialed it in a little bit better and got some of the more scientific based, I guess, concoctions that are out there. Like Tom. It's quite interesting to hear actually, that I didn't know he was having those troubles on the run. And, you know, in terms of breathing and he's gi. Upset. It's quite scary actually to hear that, to know that he's actually got quite a lot left in reserve. So it's a bit of a worrying thought to hear that. I know Jared won't be pleased of me, you know, telling him that I'm not quite as dialed in with my nutrition, but.

So you dis. You disregard taste and you're just going for pure, pure numbers. Is that.

Well, I think that's what Tom does. Some of the stuff he's eating is diabolical, in my opinion. I think, you know, Pepsi and Cokes, it's made for flavor, so you can't go wrong.

Yeah, yeah, fair.

You know that I'm only gonna start to have the Spanish Inquisition. When you start to perform poorly. That's when we'll actually dig. Dig deep into it. And I'll be saying, what the hell are you doing? Just like I did with Tom and so did Jordan. It was like, hang on a minute. Can you run that past me again? What exactly are you doing?

I've unjustly exposed your. Roland, I'm sorry, mate.

I'm getting very sweaty now. Very sweaty.

That's okay. We'll talk later.

That's ominous words. So, look, one thing we're going to really try and do with this series is give you, the audience, a real insight into how the races pan out. And the boys have graciously agreed to really, where applicable, talk about the race results in a pretty raw format and the good and the bad that comes with racing and the results. And so we really appreciate that from the boys and we know the listeners will as well, because, yeah, straight up for the first race, you both definitely, no secret, you both were disappointed with your results. But we want to explore that disappointment and kind of what that means for you both and look at the positives that you ended up finding from it as well as the kind of awe of your first pro race. And so, Tom, just give us a little bit of insight into. It's not only your first pro race, but it was at your hometown in a stacked Geelong 70.3 field, probably the biggest, the most stacked field we've ever seen for a pro race, which is awesome. The 70.3 world champion in the race. The level of depth in this race was so big for you both to come into. But how was that playing on your mind for your debut?

Yeah, yeah, it was pretty awesome to know that I was going to be having the pro debut in Geelong where I've grown up and done a good chunk of my study and now working and living again. So, yeah, that was really exciting for me. And despite the fact it was going to be a very competitive deep field with a lot of top end strength and a lot of depth throughout, I was still really excited to have the opportunity to sort of toe the line on the local shores. Yeah, it was interesting. Roland and I had been chatting quite a bit in the lead up, I guess intermittently and with other people as well. But about the, I guess perceived pressure or whether we were more nervous being like our first pro race and things like that. But I think, you know, leading into it, definitely, you know, our sort of sentiment had been that it was a bit of a free hit, like we felt a bit less external pressure, I guess in some ways. Not that anyone is overly invested in what we'd been doing previously. But, you know, we definitely go to races, you know, expecting ourselves to execute our best race and hoping that that would, you know, land us up the pointy end somewhere of those age group races. So I guess without that sort of pressure in terms of, you know, a result or a placing, just with the nature of the deep field, that was in my mind just unrealistic and not something I was focused on at all. I was just keen to focus on my own race and sort of enjoy the new experience. It took a bit of that external pressure away, I guess for me in the lead up. Mind you, when we were sitting, yeah, I think it had been pretty cruisy all week and had been mentally pretty okay. But then when we were sitting in the race briefing and I'm staring at the back of Cam Wurf's head for 45 minutes and next to him Jake Burtwistle. And next to him Yellow Gaines. And next to him Darren Royal. I think I had a momentary sort of panic attack there for a little while. I was just staring blankly at the back of CamWorks head for about five minutes and it all sort of sunk in and Rowan probably calmed me down as we walked, walked out and racked our bikes. But that did sort of hit pretty heavy all at once, I have to say then. But yeah, I guess once you get yourself organized, sort of recalibrate and have a good level headed chat with Jared the night before and yeah, focus on what I can control and trying to not approach it any differently to any other race but just execute my best race. I think we'll probably chat about it a bit more but at the end of the day that's all I can control and if I keep the focus on that, then I've got to be happy with how I walk away if I've done that to my best ability.

And Roland, you had similar thoughts, similar experience, especially in the pre race briefing.

It was very, very intimidating and I think for, you know, myself and Tom and that the pro race briefing, seeing a lot of these people, you know, who you've watched on TV on, you know, incompetent world championships and you know, have a lot of admiration for, you know, being in the same room with them, you know, merely meters away. It's, you know, a very immediate and like strong realization that this is, you know, you're stepping up into the big leagues now and going to be competing against really world class athletes which as Tom said is at the same time it was very terrifying. It was also, I guess a little bit took the pressure off, I guess a little bit just because in my mind and the expectation was that now we're competing against people that have been doing this full time since they were probably, you know, 15 to 20 years old and you know, are the best in the world. So you know, whilst it's going to be terrifying that you're lining up against these people when you're going to try and do your best at the same time, it's also a bit reassuring in that, well, you know, you're not going to be nearly as good as these people. And so it's I guess a good yardstick to see just how close or far off you are against the best people in the world.

And so coach, what was your words of advice going into the race and what did you really want? What message did you really want to hammer home to the boys going into it?

Yeah, I thought it's great listening to their thoughts there and if, if they were nervous, they weren't certainly showing it to me in our conversations, which is really good to hear. And the expectation from me was that they should be, you know, giving it the respect that it deserved because you know, we talked about what races to do when they decided to take this plunge for, for this particular season and you know, there was not going to be a lot of races where there's going to be a field like this and so to go into your first race and you know, Both you guys got first and second in this race as the age group as last year. So you're coming into it with, you know, having performed very well in this race.

Just to think about the comparison to last year, Tom, you might know the data, but I think you guys were like 10th and 11th, including the age, the pro times last year, or maybe 12th or 13, something around that mark.

Yeah, very.

Oh, yeah, I could look it up, but it was very close to that. It was definitely. Yeah. Between 10th and 13th or something like that, I believe. Yeah. Given we were only 17 seconds apart, it was. I think we were very, very closely matched in that sort of top. Top 10. 12ish.

Yeah.

And it's interesting, Jordan, look, looking at that data, which I think the intro the listeners would be pretty interested in, I think, Tom, you were three, 53 or 54, is that right?

I think, I think 54 something, I believe.

Three. Yeah. And. And that would have put you 12th or 11th last year and you did 350 this year and that puts you 24th.

Yeah, yeah.

You improved. You improved four minutes and you went back 12 spots. That shows you how hard this race was. And with a 350, I actually didn't look this up. I should have looked this up. I Wonder what a 350 would have given you in placing last year.

Right.

Now while we're chatting, but might have moved you up.

And by the same token, Roland was 3, 54 and 17 seconds slower than Tom last year. And so Rollins performed a little bit slower this year than he did last year. So that was a bit of a turnaround. And for me, the expectation was that they don't worry too much about times. It's actually, how well are you going to compete on the day? That was the message I was giving them. And our tactics strategy wise was so different for the two of them. The conversation I had with Roland was completely different to the conversation I had with Tom. Tom was going to race this race as a solo time trialist on the bike, swimming solo and pretty much trying to run his best he could. Roland's goal was to try to swim with the front pack and therefore get the benefit of riding with the group and then see how he can run for the very first time in his career after riding with a group where he's riding 80, 80% of his effort instead of 100% of his effort. And so that was. We were quite excited, Roland and I, about the opportunity he was going to have if he could stay with the main pack and get to ride and that was Tom's big disadvantage, was he's going to have to ride by himself. And so we had to talk him to different tactics for that. And Roland's tactics was you got to hide, you've got to actually stay in that group and not ride your best power. You've got to try and conserve as much as possible and then run a new way of running because you're fresher compared to what you've run in your whole career because you're going to get the advantage of being in the pack. So it's a very interesting dynamic to have to have two different discussions about two athletes in the one race and their strategies based on their swim ability, really.

And so what happened in the swim, Roland?

Well, I think first of all, the swim level was just incredibly high in that race. And then not to say that it's not normally high in professional field, but I think you had some incredibly good swimmers there, like the Matt Mikeson, Matt Hauser and some of the other pro level guys that really took it up a notch. And then I think I was probably at the back of the mid pack or the chase pack for about 400 or 500 meters and was actually feeling quite, you know, comfortable in how I was swimming and where I was in the position. But I was just, I was breathing to my right side like I normally do and had someone on my right. And maybe it wasn't quite so used to having, you know, quite so many people around me almost in a washing machine, which is probably something I need to go and try and improve on. And thought I would try to get onto the other side of this person so that I could breathe into clean air whilst still staying on their feet. So as I was sort of going across, took a bit of a knock to the face, which I think probably startled me a little bit. And then before I knew it, I looked up and I was off the feet and tried my best to close down the gap. But I think as anyone knows, that's, you know, try to swim with people that are going helpful leather. As soon as you get a little bit of a gap, it just makes it exponentially harder to swim. And so I really struggled to close that gap and then ended up swimming, you know, the remaining 1500 meters solo. So was a little bit of a shock given that the plan that we discussed with Jared the night before was to go out there and, you know, try and just hide for the first, you know, two thirds of the race and try and benefit from a little bit of, I guess you Know, decreased watts on the bike. But, you know, that quickly turned into, you know, a change dynamic of, you know, what I guess Tom was planning to do, which was a solo time trial. So I sort of switched into the same mentality. And whilst we didn't specifically discuss that the night before, it's something that, you know, we've always done during training and in previous races. So I quickly just sort of snapped into that gear. And whilst I was a little bit demoralized and I was probably the race, expectations I might have had were sort of thrown out of the window almost from, you know, the first 10 minutes of the race, still was, you know, motivated to try and see what I could do on the bike and into the run. And I saw I was sort of in no man's land coming out of the swim and in the bike. There was a group about a minute or so in front of me that I did try to bridge up to, but just really was struggling to try and get to. And I saw the chase group behind me, including Tom, coming. And so I thought probably better to just conserve some effort and wait for that group to catch up, which, and so I say that group, but it was actually really just Tom trucking up from the swim. You know, not an unusual sight to see the big steam train coming down. But yeah, very quickly Tom enveloped me and I sort of held on to him for dear life and, you know, we managed to stay together for the whole ride, which was good. But, yeah, it was a bit of a stark contrast to what I thought was going to happen in the pre race discussion.

Jared, I want to dissect that adjustment of expectations after the swim and trying to reset because your plan's been thrown out the window. But I just want to throw it to Tom quickly in terms of the, you know, the swim. In the start of the race, the swim basically went how you expected. You, you swam really well and you expected to come out and be by yourself, but in reality you still have to experience that. And so what was that like coming out of the water going basically as you expected, but you're still on your own?

Yeah, it was, yeah, as you said, I was expecting it to play out the way it did. As hopeful and, you know, proactive as I was trying to be early in the swim, I was sort of under no illusion that that was the most likely scenario. And when it did sort of eventuate, it was a very different feeling. Swimming, you know, 27, whatever. I swam on my own and seeing the gap to those in front of me sort of very clearly in the water as opposed to swimming. The similar sort of effort and pace with age group is everywhere and sort of not having that very objective, clear, visible sight of how far behind I was. And, yeah, that was definitely a bit of a mental battle, to be honest. It was sort of a long back straight. I, you know, disconnected from the. I mean, winding back a little bit. I've sort of lost the group. Just before, before the first boy, tried my absolute hardest to. I was probably 5 or 6 meters off the back of the feet by then after the washing machine that Roland mentioned at the start. And I just couldn't, Couldn't close the gap. And as we've discussed, at length. That's something. That's my big limitation and that I'm really eager to keep working on, hopefully do a bit more work with Brenton, who's been really generous with his time and advice to help me with my swimming. But, yeah, I'm very aware that that's where I'm losing, not just time in the swim, but therefore the advantage of being able to swim better and benefit from the race dynamics later in the race. So that's where I have to put the work in. But it was a mental struggle being completely solo. Fortunately for me, when I came out, Jimmy Whelan, who had an exceptional first 70.3 race in the end, but he's also new to swimming, even newer than me, and actually was behind me. I didn't know at the time I thought I was out the back, dead last with a big gap in front of me, but hey, yeah, he came in just behind me. But I was, yeah, sort of swimming along, seeing the gap ahead, just waiting for the women's kayaker to come past with the women's lead group and just dreading the moment of the live coverage. I was sort of visualizing myself a bit like Sam long on the T100 and the commentators just, you know, talking about how crazy the gap is and everything like that. And I was just dreading the moment the female pros would swim past, knowing they were only five minutes behind me and not knowing how fast they would swim. But I sort of made it to the last, last turn boy, maybe with a hundred meters into shore and just used everything I could to try and get there before the pros, female pros came out, unfortunately, did. I think they were out of the water before I got to my bike.

I heard on the.

On the speakers in transition. But I was. That was reassuring. And it was actually really reassuring in a weird way to see Jimmy Whelan's bike still wrapped there as well. So I knew I could hang my hat on the fact I wasn't last. The water was. I sort of had assumed that he might have had an issue. I pulled out at that point knowing that I was, I was well off the group. But, yeah, I guess in answer to your question, Jordy, that was a long way of saying, despite expecting it, it was still psychologically quite difficult and, yeah, I guess even more motivation to really pull my finger out and make some tangible change in the swim to, yeah, help that aspect of the race. But as I guess I alluded to the, you know, ride and run to come as well.

And so you get onto the bike, you do end up riding a bit with Jimmy Whelan and you get up to Roland, as Roland mentioned, and you guys end up swapping turns a bit, which is a great thing for you to be able to do in the middle of the race. And you ride three minutes, almost three minutes faster than last year. I think it was 2 minutes 40 quicker than last year, which is an exceptional ride. But dad, what are your thoughts for. You know, we didn't expect it to get to this point, but they get to halfway through the ride and they're actually in the same spot and a gun cyclist and Jimmy Williams around them. And I think, Tom, did you end up riding a quicker time than him or he caught you but you stayed ahead of him?

Yeah. So, yeah, Jimmy, I actually don't know what time he swam, but he rode a really, really fast time. He did catch us, but it wasn't until about 75, 80Ks. So I was at sort of the last bar turn. But yeah, I caught up to to a few guys and was saw Roland at the out of back turnaround. So put a bit of an effort in to try and get up to him because I knew he'd be probably the best, you know, rider I was going to catch by a long way. The guys around were all riding pretty strong, but I knew Roland was a super strong rider, so I was pretty keen to get up to him and hopefully we could work together a little bit to try and keep bridging the gap to those ahead of us as much as possible. So, yeah, it was really reassuring when I did get up to him. And yeah, he put in some really big efforts as well to keep us moving at a good pace on the bike. And then later on when, yeah, Jimmy Whelan did catch up to us, I think at that last far turn, yeah, he sort of came past and did a bit of.

A.

Bit of a pull and then. And then we had a few swaps from there, back into. Back into transition. But no, in answer to your question, he did ride. He ride at least two or three minutes faster. Again, he had an exceptionally fast ride. Yeah, as you might expect from a pro cyclist. But he backed it up with a very impressive run as well. So he had a really good day.

Yeah, I just checked it. He was a minute 50 quicker. So you were right there with him. Yeah. So, Coach, what were your thoughts in hearing this, in hindsight and the position that they're in halfway through the race?

Yeah, look, as much as we talked about Tom's experience of what's going to happen in the swim, until you're in the position, it's still mentally tough, isn't it? Even though the expectation is, you know, this is going to happen, but when you're in it, you have to be so mentally tough to concentrate on the things that are going to get you the time you want. And that was our plan right from the night before and the weeks into it. I certainly detected a little bit of anxiety. Tom was more communicative than he's ever been, and I think just needed reassurance. I think a little bit about that. It'll be okay. And it's times like that when the athletes are kind of questioning everything, you know, have I done enough? Am I prepared? You know, am I going to perform the way I want to? And to be fair, both Roland and Tom, they really listen well and they take on the advice beautifully. And to just get the message that all you've got to do is just execute to the best of your ability and whatever outcome is the result, then you've got to be happy. As long as you've done the best you can on the day, you can't be. You know, we had a talk. I had a talk with Tom later and, you know, I was a bit shocked at his disappointment where I started to point out things about, hang on a minute, you're literally four minutes quicker than you were last year. You've actually swam, ridden, and run faster than you've ever done. So where are we disappointed? Well, you know, the disappointment comes from the position where you finish. That's the disappointment. And that's. I said to Tom, I'd be disappointed as a competitive athlete myself when that happens, but you have to get the perspective of the situation. And look, what we talked about before, compared that to last year's times in the pro ranks, that would have put you in 12th place. So. And had you. Had you done a 350, it would have been, you know, probably seventh or eighth. So I'm not sure, Jordan, if you've checked that.

But yeah, it was top 10, I think we're doing.

Yeah. So, you know, you've got to be a little bit careful about how you measure your expectations. And I think that's what these two guys are really good at, is their willingness to take on advice, whether it's positive or negative. They're really good at that. They don't take it personally. They know that I'm for their best interests. And certainly knowing Tom well, my motivation for him was to don't do anything different if you're by yourself. Don't try and race flat out to catch up to the guys in front of you when they're not going to be that much help to you. So race your own race and stay in the numbers. And the only thing that he did do was try to catch Roland earlier, which I would have done as well as a competitor. And that is a risk to do that. But I think it's worth it. That way you're going to spend less time by yourself. And it will also help Roland because Roland was, you know, Tom would have seen when they're. When they're passing each other. This course is good because you are doing so many times when you. When you go in the other direction because it goes out and back and up and down and. And you're forever seeing where you are on the field, aren't you, Tom? And I think. I think that's really good that Tom's making. And that's what we were talking about before the race. Make decisions about where you see yourself. And, and remember, you can't time trial any faster than you can time trial. So, you know, at the end of the day, he did that really well. Jord. He actually rode three minutes quicker than last year. You know, in same shows how much a better a rider he is than last year already and how mature his mindset was that he didn't, you know, just. Just lose it by being, you know, worrying about the exterior noise of I'm blast, I'm way back. I'm not even in this race. But, you know, but we settle before the race. Do not give up on this race. You know, ride your best ride, run your best run, and you'll be more happy with that than if you. If you don't do that. And I think, I think that's what you did really well. I think that's what I'm most proud of about. We haven't talked about the run but I think you really rode very clever after the swim and after the mindset you would have had in the water just going how much does this suck? By myself and for Roland I felt really I was. Because I was in transition doing a team. I was watching them come in and I had a really good view of. I was. I just couldn't find where Roland was and I was so shocked that he came out of the water by himself which was not in our. We just didn't think that that was going to happen. We didn't. Knowing that he was going to get kicked in the face and. And then lose the back of the pack with the shock that he was in for those five or 10 seconds that it takes. It only takes that to lose the feet and then you're actually, you've lost the pack and it's very hard to reach back up to that. So you know, there was an idea that if something did happen he would have to revert from riding a bike ride to going back to time trialling. A bike ride is, you know, when you're in a race pace line you're going to get a drafting effect. Even though it's 12 meters, there is still a drafting value in it. Even though you've got Race Ranger and you're all legally doing it, it's still an advantage to ride within a group of eight or nine people in a line than it is to ride solo. And so Roland really had to change his whole strategy. So that's mentally tough as well. So they're both going through their first race with all of these things in their minds really throwing them off their actual race. And that's kind of what I'm alluding to as it really takes mental toughness to stay in there, to hang in there and you'll regret it afterwards when you look back and go bloody hell. All I had to do is just stay focused and stay disciplined and not worry about this has happened to me and that's the end of my day. But rather hang in there and see what benefits and what positive outcomes you can get from the day. And I think that was a really good lesson for both of them in different ways.

And Sir Tom, you ran a minute 20 quicker than last year and Rowland you ran just under two minutes slower I believe, correct me if I'm wrong. So when you, when you in that ride and run, Roland, you start to touch on this before. Yeah. What was your mindset and attitude and kind of in the race. And were you happy with that now and then? What's your kind of attitude reflecting back on it now when you're not in the emotions of the race?

Yeah, well, it's, I guess, touching on what Jared just said at the end there in that, you know, I was quite disappointed, I guess, coming out of the swim in the position that I was, knowing that I think I can personally swim a lot better than I did. But also, I guess it exposed a bit of a harsh realization, I guess, in terms that I need to go and probably put more work in on honing in my swim ability so that, you know, it's. It's not so much of an issue if I am taking a little bit of a knock and that I can close down smaller gaps if I need to. So I guess that was the first, I guess, harsh realization that I experienced during that race. And then I guess getting on to the bike solo, I thought, oh, well, now it's going to turn into a lot, I guess, longer of a day than I thought it was originally going to be, which obviously you're doing a 70.3. It's going to be a long day regardless. And, you know, you should never really shy away from having to push yourself hard during an event like that. But it's sort of, I think it was harder for me to really tap into, I guess, some of the ability that I know I have in that situation. And I guess I struggled. You know, as Jared said, it is quite mentally taxing to do that. And I think if you're doing an event like a half ironman or any triathlon for that matter, I think, you know, you're pushing your body and you're doing something that innately your body doesn't necessarily want you to do. It is a painful experience and you. You have to push through some of that pain and you need a good mental reserve to do that. And so I did struggle quite a lot during that bike ride. And I guess my thoughts coming off that bike, knowing that I just done, you know, quite a strong effort to, you know, pull a turn with Tom or two and stay, you know, within a realm of the race. Coming into the run, I sort of just had an idea that I wanted to try and run comfortably and not put myself into a hole that I know I've experienced previously with some of these races where I've tried to push myself quite hard on the run. And, you know, I've suffered for it in the weeks after in terms of some of my training and so my mindset was just to try and run comfortably on that run. And so I had sort of switched off, I guess, from a true racing mindset in that I wasn't trying to, you know, do a pb, I guess, on the run at that point, or for the whole race, for that matter, or, you know, push myself as hard as I could. As I said, I just sort of wanted to try and run comfortably and evenly throughout the run and work on more of a negative split, which is something that, you know, Jared will say to death that that's probably the best way to run a half marathon, which I totally agree. And so that was the main sort of thing that I wanted to try and get out of that experience and sort of turned into more of a training session for me in my mind than a true race and was, I guess, at that point probably naively contemplating future events that I thought could use this experience to, you know, inform, you know, better, better training for and, you know, execution for, you know, thinking down the line, given that some of the other races that I, you know, I'm planning to have a good crack at are, you know, less than seven or eight weeks away. And so I didn't want to put myself into, you know, a training deficit, as I said, you know, in such close proximity to those ones.

So what are your thoughts hearing that, Coach? And yeah, it's a pretty raw question to ask because this is also, you know, kind of some private athlete coaching conversations. But we've all been there where you just. When the race doesn't go to plan, you do start thinking outwards and sometimes you can, yes, not stay in the present moment. So what are your thoughts on that?

Yeah, I just think it's a great learning experience and the maturity both Tom and Roland show with, you know, completely different scenarios occurring. And yeah, I take my hat off to the decision making and every decision that you make has a consequence and, and I think Roland made some good decisions for him. For him personally, I think, I think he, the way he thought that through was, was pretty accurate and the way I would have been thinking myself. But I think you've got to be very careful in a lot of these events where if you start to think like that too many times, it becomes a habit. And I totally agree with, with how he felt and, and, and the reasons why he made those decisions. I'm, I'm really happy to hear that and I'm on board with it, but, but you have to be careful that you don't make that a habit of, look I'm not. I'm not going the way I want to in any event, and to switch off. So that's not a criticism of me. It's just an observation. And I've done it myself many times in the two or three hundred races that I've done. And sometimes it's really for the best to do that, as long as you understand that I'm doing it for these particular reasons. And the reasons Roland gave are really good because there are quite a few races. It's the first race of the year. You know, we're not. We're not pinning anything on this race. It's our first experience, so to live to fight another day. And, you know, and even the way Tom attacked his race compared to the way Roland did, they were two completely different outcomes. You know, Tom's improved from last year. Roland's probably race reasonably close, closely similar. And last year it was. Was a, you know, a really good placing in the. In the field, but it's a completely different field. But last year's run, that's the thing I was most impressed with for Roland this time, and the pressure's less. Last year he was racing for the win. So he was trying to, you know, to tactically outrun Tom last year, and he ran too hard early. And this year he's. He's remembered that and he's going, well, I'm not going to do that again. And there's no point because, you know, whether I'm 25th or 18th, you know, that doesn't really matter. It's just about the actual execution that's more important. And I think that mindset was really good. I really like to hear that, you know, you're trying to get one positive out of it, and that was to not run too hard early and come home strong. Even though you're saying you switched off well to run home strong, you're still not really switched off. You're actually having to concentrate. So I think it's a really. A really good and fair reasonable answer that you've given about how the race panned out and your reasons why. And. And, you know, for Tom, it was completely different. I was saying to him, you're going to be in this scenario every single race where you're chasing the field down, whereas Rollins expectation beforehand was completely different. So I think his mindset was good for Roland to actually think like that. And Tom stuck. Stuck true to what we planned. No matter what's happening in the race, you keep pushing because this is the situation you're going to be in every race and you know, the field won't be so strong in every race for sure there'll be races where, you know there's only four or five really good guys and you know you'll be riding, racing for fourth or fifth or third or so the scenario is going to be different and you know, whether you're racing for 24th or whether you're racing for a podium, you still should get the mindset in your brain that I'm going to execute the best I can. So I'm going to be proud of what I've done rather than be kicking myself a week later.

It's been a monster episode. We've really gone deep into both the pro decision and your first race and yeah, really love the mindset so far. Tom, I just want to give you a chance to kind of wrap up the, the race yourself and. And you ran quite well and given at the time, you know, given the competition around you, it felt slightly like a sting at the end. But then you do look at your time and go, well, yeah, if you told me before the race I'd be four minutes quicker. You've got to be stoked with that. So where do you sit now that the dust has settled a couple weeks later with your conclusions?

Yeah, for sure. I think you described it really well. There I was, yeah. Thought by the end of the bike and sort of had in my mind that I'd set it up reasonably well considering where things had started by then and ended up being really.

Yeah.

Pleased with the run during the run and in. And in hindsight probably more so. Reflecting on, as you mentioned, the improvements on last year and you know, on a super flat, not on a super flat course. There's a few bumps in Geelong on either end of the course. So to run my sort of best half off the bike was. Was really pleasing. But I guess, yeah, you don't have that. It's interesting, you know, like to see myself someone who's quite internally motivated. But it was interesting without the instant sort of gratification of, you know, having placed first, second, third, whatever it was, you know, in an age group sort of field. It was a different sort of sensation afterwards I think as well. I'd just been so focused all day on executing my best race and best result. I sort of hadn't thought too much about where I was and things yet until the end. I was just really sort of tunnel visioned on executing my best race. So I think it actually did take a bit of time for me to. Without that sort of instant feedback on a placing as such. Took me a bit of time to sort of process how things had gone and a bit of a chat with Jared and going through the data a little bit and yeah I guess as the dust has settled as you mentioned Jordi then I've been really pleased with how it went and proud of my efforts and feel like it's a good line in the sand to sort of draw as a first pro race and something to build on going forwards hopefully.

So what's the next race Roland, you backed up a week later and did the Mooloolaba standard try which ended up turning into a duathlon but we won't go into that in detail. But what's the next major race? What are you aiming for?

Well this is the discussion I had with Jared immediately post race given that I just had a bit of an opportunity to think about it during Geelong my plan was to try and do Port Mach 70.3 in May. So a little over a month away and I think Tom, you know we've already had a bit of a discussion but Tom's lining up to do that again. We're planning to actually stay at the same accommodation so hopefully another one of us gets sick the night before or anything like that or sleeps in and then. Yeah, well fortunately I think hopefully there's two beds in this place but I think it's all one room so nice.

And cozy enough wake up.

And then maybe even Cairns Iron man if I can get the medical rostering team to reply back to my emails at work and get some leave off for a week or so. I'll try and get up there and do do the full line man first full on this approach. That'll be interesting.

I'm sure they're listening and Tom you're notice to to make sure you're there man it.

Yeah, we'll forward this on.

Yeah I'll.

Yeah Tom, your next focus.

Yeah, sorry Jody. Yeah I'll be up at Port Mac as well which I'm really excited about. Obviously another pro race. This is for the 70.3 there but it'll be more a domestic field I'm expecting compared to the pro series event in Geelong where there was some big heavy hitters Australians but also international talent up that top end which was really strong and sure Roland feels the same epic experience to be a part of and, and yeah it was really cool to have sort of you know, lined up against some of those international world class athletes but I'm really looking forward to a chance to hopefully feel a bit more in the mix in the field again, which is interesting. As we were speaking about earlier. Probably have a, you know, a little bit more nerves almost going to the next one because I'll probably expect myself to be a little bit, bit higher up on the results sheet than what I was in Geelong. But it's a good reminder for me to just focus on the process, I guess, and try and have another good, well executed race across the board. There is what I'm hoping for.

It's been a big episode and it's. Yeah, honestly, it's really not easy to sit here and you review your whole race for everyone like you have, you know, you really have to be courageous to explain and explore what kind of went well and what didn't in a public forum. So kudos to you both. We really thank you for that. Look, next episode of the series we'll probably do a bit more of a check engineer training and what we're focused on in training and what you guys are working on to improve. I think people really like that. And, and of course, yeah, we'll keep doing future race reviews as they come up or maybe some episodes pre race so people can hear kind of the thoughts going into a race. But this has been a really great starting point. So any final comments from. From the coach and. Or you, you guys?

No, I'm super excited to see. This is the start of a journey. It's great. And I loved Roland's take on at the start of the, the podcast where he's really putting it in perspective. You know, it's not the be all and end all. It's your passion, it's what you want to do. But you have a career. You know, you've both got a really good career that you're setting up and this is something that you really want to have a crack of outside of that career as medical professionals. And I think that's fantastic attitude. You want to see how far you go, see as far as you can go. Exactly what you've both said to me. You want to push this and see what you can do. And I love your attitude and I think I'm super excited this year. There'll be lots of highs and lots of lows. It's just the journey that's going to be fun and we're so grateful that you're going to share that journey a little bit with us and give us an insight and the struggles because it's not all smooth sailing. And I think that's the bit that most people out there listening need to understand that the guys at the top level have just as many struggles as the age groupers and the mid packers. And I think that's, that's a lesson for everybody. You're going to face mental challenges in training, in work, in getting your mind right when things aren't going well and how you're going to manage roadblocks. And I think the boys are really giving us a good detailed explanation of what happened on the day and how they thought their way through it. So I think it's a great start to some really good info.

Any sign out notes, Roland? And then Tom?

Tom? No, just, you know, really grateful for you guys having us on and you know, putting on this format. It's the, the podcast was actually probably the, the first way that I got in touch with the Tribello coaching and then, you know, I knew Tom through some of the training we'd done as rowing, as you mentioned. So I've always been a long time, you know, listener to the podcast and so it feels a bit surreal to now be part of it, I guess. So, you know, really grateful to that and if I'm able to share any sort of wisdom to anybody else listening, then I'd certainly, you know, count that as a big win in my books.

Yeah, very much agree. I think it's, it's, yeah, a little bit surreal and a real privilege to be on with both of you guys who have built such a strong and well supported community with Trivelock. It's a great group and it's a pleasure to sort of be able to contribute to that and to your listener base. It's worldwide. I know, so that's a really cool thing to be a part of. And I think similarly to when I jumped on after Tableau as well, it's a really good opportunity, I think, from our point of view, to reflect on these things and think about the positives, the negatives and how we can sort of channel all of that into improving and progressing into the future. So, yeah, very grateful for the chance to dissect it with you guys.

It's so awesome to hear these insights from you both. Yeah, we really appreciate it and I think everyone can't wait to hear the adventures of you this year and all the bunk bedding that you're going to be doing together for future races. You've given us some great stories so far, so we can't wait for what the rest of the year holds. And if you enjoyed this episode, please let us know. Please let the boys know. Give us some feedback. We'd love to hear whether you enjoyed this format and what you'd like to know from the boys in terms of. Of training or racing, as we kind of do this throughout the year with them. So that's it for this episode. Thanks always for listening and we'll see you on the next one.