What It Takes To Podium At A Grand Tour - Sarah Gigante

I think I read, like, half of that 1.8k looking behind me, because I was just like, surely this isn't happening. This cannot be real. And then it was happening, and I couldn't really see them when I looked behind. So then I started thinking, oh, my gosh, what if I get a puncture now?

This is just.

Something like, this just cannot be happening.

This podcast is brought to you by Trivelo Coaching, where we help triathletes and cyclists like you train smarter to race faster. I'm your host, Jordan Donnelly, and on my left is former Australian Ironman champion and head coach of Tribalo Coaching, Jared Donnelly. Today's episode, we welcome the official Queen of the Mountains. She first conquered the home hills of the famous Buninyong climb at Australian Road Nationals and Walonga Hill at Tour down under, and has taken this climbing prowess to the biggest races and grand tours in the world across Italy and France. Now, Australian road race champion and two times Australian time trial champion, seventh at the Tour de France last year and this year, a breakout performance at the Giro d', Italia, third in gc, took out the Queen of the Mountain jersey. This kind of result has been building and coming, although you've had a lot of setbacks. So, Sarah, very big welcome to the podcast and thanks for joining us. So fresh off what was a dream Giro d' Italia for yourself.

Yeah, thanks so much for having me on.

We cannot wait to unpack this race with you. Two stage wins, the journey to get here, which you've had an insanely tough last year to get back to this kind of form, which we'll talk about. But let's just get straight into the Giro. Take us through that first stage win. You find yourself in an elite breakaway with last year's winner, Eliza Longo Borghini, who went on to win again this year, and you simply. Well, it looks simple from our perspective, right away from her with a couple of Ks to go. So take us through it.

Yeah, it was really a surreal feeling, that first stage win in particular, because I knew I was in, like, solid form, but I certainly wasn't expecting just to be able to ride away from the best in the world. So, yeah, even right from the bottom, Marlon Roosa attacked, and I was the only one that was able to follow her wheel. And normally when I'm in a position like that, I just, like, go for it. Just be like, oh, my gosh, this is crazy. Let's go. But I had my DS Danny in my ear on the radio saying, just be calm. Just stay on her Wheel, I think it was about an 8 kilometer climb. So she told me, just wait, wait and only go closer to the top. We also had a few GC leaders and they were not there at that moment. So we wanted them to come back to the front, which they were able to do. So, yeah, my job was just to sit on Marlon, but I think it also worked really well in that when I did go later on, then it was like I really went and I was able to open the gap.

I'm wondering. It's great that you're taking instructions from the DS and following them to the letter like a true team rider is, and that's absolutely fine. In your own mind, looking back, if you had gone earlier, you could have got some more time on the field. Have you thought about that?

Yeah, yeah, I did think about that, but I didn't know at the time. And Neva did. My team, we didn't know that I was as strong as I ended up being. I think that was what happened there.

Was that a shock to you? You know, when you. When you followed that attack and you realized it was just, you know, you and one other rider was. Were you thinking, far out, Am I in great form or what's happening here?

Yeah, for sure. I think the last time I went head to head against some of the best climbers in the world would have been Tour of Romundy last year. And it was in September. We haven't mentioned it yet, but I was having some health problems, which meant that I was able to race, but I just didn't have the power. So I just had that in my mind, like, just remembering going up that mountain, which should have been perfect for me, in my mind was going to be perfect for me. It was like a hockey stick course profile. And then I just got to the climb and I was, like, struggling right from the bottom, just hanging on for dear life. And then as soon as they went a little bit harder, I just dropped off and I was going full gas and I could see a lot of Kabecki just riding off into the distance, who was also the best sprinter in the race, which was a bit of a head crack because I was like, I'm like a pure climber and I'm getting dropped by, like the best sprinter in the race. She's also awesome at climbing, but still, I just had that in my mind. And, yeah, I was so shocked when I was the only one that could follow Marlon at the bottom. And I had watched a lot of racing this season. I always watch it, but especially Being on the sidelines and doing tons of ergos. Back home, I would save the racing to watch until I had like a really long, hard ergo. And then I'd watch it on 0.75 speed to stretch out the entertainment. And so I'd watch Marlon climbing in slow motion. Oh, really? Oh, my gosh. I did a six hour ergo. I had a dislocated shoulder, so I did a six hour ergo. The day of the men's Paris Roubaix. So I stretched out the women's like, really slowly. Their cadence was so low, the commentators were speaking like really, really slowly. And then I timed it so that once I finished the women's one, then I could watch the men's. I had to do desperate things. But, yeah, I just mean I had seen how strong Marlon was climbing, like how well she did at the Vuelta and so many other races. So when I was following her and feeling comfortable and I saw no one else was coming, I was really like, this is amazing, but weird.

Yeah. It must be hard to trust your instincts because you've already experienced the shock of not riding well up the climb, you know, back in September and now you're. You're feeling like you're invincible. You must be going, I don't trust this. I'm a little bit worried that I've. This could be short lived for 2 or 3K. How is your brain thinking about. No, no, I'm good here compared to what I was literally six months ago with the health issues. Explain that mindset.

I don't think I've ever felt really awesome at the start of an effort and then fallen off a cliff. Maybe because it's the type of rider I am. I don't know. I'm definitely a diesel. So I tend to get better as the race goes on. Maybe I'll feel a bit rough at the start, especially with my positioning. Like if I came in right at the back and I have to go well above my threshold to catch up to the ones at the front and then I might start feeling better. But this time I just felt so good and I was like, nah, this is a really good day. So, you know, I was pretty confident once I got to the bottom and I felt so good, I didn't think it was going to go away.

So when you first followed her wheel, what kind of power were you doing? Are you paying too much attention to your data? You're looking down, plus you've got your DS in your ear. And then I'm curious to know how the Attack works, you know, are you waiting for that instruction? Is it just get to the last couple K and go when you feel like it. And then what was kind of the power wattage there? Explain that whole process to us.

I have to. I should have had it up on Strava, but I know I started off pretty hard because I came from the back difficult. So yeah, the first five minutes I did nearly 300 watts. So around, yeah, 6 watts per kilo for the first five minutes of this is like just over half an hour of climbing. And that's at the end of. We'd already done 140k. So at the end of nearly four hours of racing with some max efforts in there and a climb just before. So I had to surge to go around all the lead out riders. Then Marlon realized, I don't know why she stopped because it was only me. But she decided she didn't want to keep doing that attack and I wasn't going to come through because I was told not to. So then we completely backed off the pace. Only 205 watts for the next four minutes. And then the group went from just me and marlon to about 20 riders came back. But then my. I think I had three teammates in that group so that was good for us. Then Anna van der Breggen came to the front and did a strange tactic of just sitting on the front pacesetting. But she wasn't being a domestic. She had no other teammates so it was like being a domestic but for herself. So I just stayed in the wheel still like I was told I was feeling that that part. I was like, oh, like this sucks. I was so strong and I was at the front solo. Oh, sorry, not solo. I was at the front with Jess Marlin. And then now we have like a whole peloton again and it's not hard enough the pace. And I was thinking, oh no. Like, yeah, I thought I was like I wasn't going to be able to use my really good climbing legs. But that was about 15 minutes at 240 watts and I was just in the wheels and then the. Then Marlon went. I had to search quite a lot for that. So 283 watts for three minutes just following her. And then actually my attack wasn't even that much more, but it was like the punch. I basically just kept the same power but I put in. Okay. It doesn't sound like much, but it was after the end of lots of climbing. So 428 watts when I attacked out of the seat and I went to the other side of the road. So I had that initial gap and then I just. Yeah, looks like I did about 280 for the. There's only about five minutes left at that point. So it wasn't actually like crazy numbers. If you take each five minutes, I think my best is like 3:30 for five minutes. But it was just a lot of racing already in the legs and then the surges.

I'd love for you to give an insight to the listener in terms of what it's like in the race at that moment because yeah, I think you're doing yourself a disservice to talk about how they're not crazy numbers because when you've got that much fatigue in the legs and when everyone is hurting and Marlin's just pushed everyone to that kind of wattage for a few minutes and for you to then just. It doesn't have to be an insane sprinting attack, you know, if you're just pushing to, you know, like you said, 420 watts. So 8 plus watts per kilo when everyone's on the red line already, you know that is definitely going to be enough to push everyone. And then you're dropping back, not below, you're dropping back to where you were where everyone was riding anyway. Right. And so accumulated power. So what was it, what was the total kind of that last, I guess 15 minutes of the climbing or so what was the total average for that including that 8 watt per kilo attack?

I think so the bottom hard part was 280 and the top hard part was nearly 280.

Yeah, but that's the feeling right when everyone's on the limit and if you can just sustain the power or marginally increase, that's going to create that gap, right?

Yeah, exactly.

And you've got to remember I think if other people could attack they would, but they can't. So everybody's on their limit and that shows you how good your legs were. Is that, you know, you're actually finding it comfortable. Could you tell us what your actual FTP?

Well, I didn't actually test it that often but it's in training peaks as 268. But it's been there for. Since I did a test in 2019. Like it just back in the day when. So my coach is Dylan Lindsey from Pinnacle Performance and he doesn't do these anymore but he used to do like the classic 20 minute FTP test and I went to Devil's Elbow, so I think I just turned 19 and I did whatever you have to do to put 268 in on training fees. Maybe like 280.

Yeah, 280.

Around 280 and yeah, I think I like the graph how it is and if I, you know, I've had six months off at a time when I had like the heart problem and then the iliac problem. So if I keep putting my FTP down to whatever, it would be like I don't know, 200. I never tested when I was really unfit, but then the graph would be skewed and like mentally I just, I like. It just always seems a roundabout, right. Like I did too. Ongo gap this year I went to Bright as a training camp. It was the first week I started doing intervals since I did intervals in November. I tried to but I couldn't really. So I guess my first max intervals since before Worlds. So in like mid September I did max intervals and then I went to Bright and I did my first like time like laughing the Garmin and everything like that. That was April and I. It was so weird. I just went up the steep side of Tawanga just like in two of Bright. I had missed two of Bright and I loved that race. So I was like, I'll just do it myself just to see where I'm at. But I knew that in Tour, right in 2023, just before I won the Tour down under, I was like really in good form and I attacked from the bottom. I also wanted to get the QM in that race, so I really went for it from the bottom and I won the race solo and got the qm. And then this day in April when I hadn't done like any interval training since mid September, I already beat my time by over a minute. I think it was. And that was around, I think it was 280 as well. So that was like really strange feeling. That was when I first felt like, wow, the surgery really worked and yeah, so I guess we don't really fixate on like the exact number for FTP. And it always changes, you know, even like day by day if you slept well or you know, you're tired from yesterday's training. So yeah, we're pretty chill of it and go more with the feel. Even in the race I wasn't, I had. What do I have in my Garmin inner race. I have the map and 3 second power and distance. So I mean I guess I could have looked at the 3 second power if I wanted to, but I was really just going off field. I think there's only a few races where I lap it like two or down under. Last year, when I knew I was going to attack from the bottom and I felt really confident that I would be the one pace setting, then I had a screen with lap power. So I just lapped to the bottom of a language and then went for it. But it was, yeah, one, I didn't expect that I would be doing the pace setting on this climb for the attacking. And then two, we have like different power meters this year at the race. Now we have Shimano power meter and I've only done two races before the duo had it just done, you know, two days at Norway and three, four days at Swiss. So I don't really want the numbers to get in my head too much. Like maybe the power meter is different and I don't know what to expect and you know, like, maybe you're on a really good day and the power say otherwise or vice versa. You like overpace. So, yeah, I know exactly what going hard feels like and that's the main.

Thing for all our triathletes listening. Don't take this advice because Sarah is racing a grand tour around the world and so when you get to 3km to go and you've got to go, you know she's going to go. And it's different to a triathlon time trial setting where we're encouraging our athletes to stay right in the range. Yeah, yeah.

In the time trial we did have a time trial for stage one and yeah, I had no, I still didn't have flat power. But yeah, I know my power so well and yeah, I just know what.

It feels like and the difference also, I would, I would definitely, if we put Sarah side by side with a, with a probably a standard age group athlete, you know, Sarah, you're going to be holding very even power just from that experience on the bike. You're not going to be jumping up and down. Whereas a lot of our age groupers just fluctuate a lot just from that lack of experience with cycling. So they need that lap power combined with 3 second to show that they're staying in the range. Whereas you could probably close your eyes and ride within the range. I think.

Yeah, in training I always have lap power. I changed my screen completely and I have. My lap power is more important than my three second power because I. Yeah, I know what the three second. I just. Yeah, I think you're right. I could do it with my eyes shut now.

I think it's great that you're giving us an insight into what your mindset is around power and racing. But obviously, in events like this, you have to follow the wheels and listen to the instructions, and so it becomes quite irrelevant. It's really good data to look at at the end of a race, like we already did at the start of this interview, is have a check of what you were doing. And it's really intriguing to look at that. But during the day, in the middle of the race, you're just going to follow wheels or you're going to be listening to your DS's instructions. So it doesn't form part of your mindset, does it? Would that be right?

Yeah, exactly. I didn't even look at it. And same for where to attack. Like, okay, I knew when I attacked it had to be solo and I couldn't, like, drag away any rider from my teammates, but. And I knew I should attack near the top. They were the instructions. But as for exactly where to go, it's not like I thought, oh, there's a steep hairpin there, or, you know, like, I really want to do a 3 minute, 21 second effort. That's perfect for me. No, I had to. I had to wait to see what happened in the race. Like, when it was really. When Marlon went and I. They weren't big gaps, but it was like, well, Elisa wouldn't be leaving a wheel gap if she was feeling good. And same with Antonia, like, she was still there. It's not like they were dropped. I didn't wait that long. But it's just noticing those little things, like the. Yeah. Also, you know, them puffing, like when I was still feeling comfortable. Just little things like that. And like, you know, they're. Their head starts to go sideways and it's just. You just see those clues and then you see the tiny gap and then, you know they're struggling and that's all that's needed if you're going to go harder. And then as for Malin, she knew that they were struggling because she dropped everyone except for me at the bottom, but she wasn't properly dropping them, so I thought if she could drop them, she would. So then I knew she was also at or close to her maximum.

Such smart racing. And so you get away with a couple of K to go, and that take us to that last couple of K where it's stage four of the Giro and you've got this gap and you're on your way to a stage win. What was going through your mind? What were you saying to yourself? How was that all?

Yeah, it Was really a strange feeling. Normally I'm pretty good at, like, looking where I'm going. And, you know, once you drop people up a climb and it's not just like an early attack, like you actually just drop them and ride off. Normally, if you don't explode, then you've got a pretty good chance of winning. So you just look where you're going and hope the gaps opening. And I also had the radio saying, like, this is good, this is good. They're dropping. But I think I rode, like, half of that 1.8k is looking behind me because I just like, surely this isn't happening. This cannot be real. And then it was happening and I couldn't really see them when I looked behind. So then I started thinking, oh, my gosh, what if I get a puncture now?

Like, this is something.

Like, this just cannot be happening. So I just. Until I cross the line. Oh. And then with 50 meters to go, the deviation for the cars and motorbikes, it was such a massive deviation and, like, the guys, like, pointing towards it for, I guess, the motorbikes around me. So then I nearly went the wrong way. So I was like, pointing, indicating, like, I'm in a bunch, right. Like, I'm going right. So it was only when I crossed the line, then I was like, oh, my gosh, nothing went wrong. It all went perfectly. Yeah, it was just such a special feeling and knowing, like, everything that had happened in the last, like, years, let alone the last six months, it was just, yeah, incredible.

So it's probably a good time to take. Take everyone through what's happened and some major setbacks and, yeah, major health problem last year, something with your. One of your ventricles just wasn't. Basically wasn't pumping enough blood. And that had come up through some numbness in training and racing. Correct. Take us through what it was and what happened.

No, no. So it wasn't my heart. It was in my leg, the iliac artery. It's like a major artery that provides blood supply to your leg, which is really important in cycling. And basically it had become super scarred over years. But it was only last year where it really became worse and worse to the point I had so much numbness when riding, felt like my leg was on fire. The tricky thing with the diagnosis is one, it's super rare and basically just in cyclists. So if you go to a normal doctor, they're never going to say, oh, maybe it's iliac artery endofibrosis. But also the symptoms were so, like, vague because it's your whole leg getting affected. So sometimes I'd complain about my quad, and then I was going to the physio a lot, and then I'd start to think, like, am I going crazy? She's going to think I'm so weird because now I'm like, oh, never mind the quad, it's my calf that's killing. And I'd always have changing symptoms and I'd be like, oh, really? This is. It just feels like you're going crazy because you have so many different places that are hurting and the symptoms are changing. And I also had a weird thing where it was unbearable for the first hour of every ride, even at recovery Watts. But then if I could push through and, I mean, I was like. I remember one ride I. I wanted to go to Kinglake to do intervals. I was really desperate to stay fit and get fitter for the Tour down under and Nationals. So I was really, like, pushing way too far through this pain. But I thought if, like, it had been getting a little bit better after an hour, so I thought, if I can just get to an hour, then maybe the pain will go from 9 out of 10. Riding slowly. I don't know why I thought I could do intervals 9 out of 10 to, like 8 out of 10. But it was, like, so bad. I pulled over on the side of the Kew Boulevard that's about half an hour from my house, and I just, like, burst into tears and luckily no one saw me. But it was really, like, mentally hard because you have no idea what's wrong. Your leg looks healthy enough and you seem healthy and. Yeah, then you just have all these strange feelings and the burning in the cord was terrible. And then it was so bad, I had really aching at rest as well. So, like, 247 pain, you know, like, sleeping was bad. So I really got it nice and scarred up in there. Basically, it's just from, like, pumping a lot of blood through your leg when you're. You spend a lot of time bent over. So, yeah, I guess all those time trial sessions probably contributed, but, yeah, who.

Was able to diagnose it correctly for you? You must be absolutely loving that person.

Yeah. Every day I thank the Victorian Institute of Sport. They were just amazing. So you really need a good problem solver if you have this problem. And I have Alice McNamara, the sports doctor there, she didn't give up. Like, sometimes if you have really vague symptoms or if they change or, you know, if you're healthy enough to. I'm still riding my bike. I mean, I was doing in the end, I just kept riding, but three hours on zwift out of the seat because I worked out if I stood up, I'm talking 50, 48, 50 were my average cadences for each ride. I looked back, and I'm like, oh, my God, what was I doing? But, yeah, I would stand up at 50 rpm for 3 hours. Still in tons of pain, but I could do it. But because I could still ride up to, say, 200 watts, I could push through. And then after that, I just. I'd have to stop. But a lot of people would just kind of ignore it, you know, like. Or people were telling me, just rest or have some vitamins or, you know, stretch. And I was like, there's something really wrong. Like, really, really wrong. This is not normal. And, like, it's not getting better with rest. It just seems to be getting worse by the week. So, yeah, Alice was amazing. And then the physio, Ali at the vis, I saw her about at the start. I was going to the vis five days a week, and then I did get down to two days a week after maybe four months, and then I dislocated my shoulder. So I went back to about four days a week. So I pretty much lived there for around five months. And they were just incredible. So, yeah, Alice couldn't diagnose me herself, but she thought of it and then sent me to a specialist who, you know, does some tests to see your blood pressure before and after exercise. So I had to bring in my black and the ergo. And then he tested me to see the size of my blood pressure, but also the size of my. The artery or whatever. Yeah, I think he was measuring the artery with, like, an ultrasound. And then I jumped on the bike. He told me to go until I had symptoms, and he was expecting that I would have, like, because some people, you know, they really have to do a lot of work to get symptoms. So he said after he was expecting me to jump on at least like, 10, 20 minutes. And I got on, and he had just said, go till you have symptoms. So I just did, like, 40 seconds, and then I got off, and I'm, like, done. Ready? Yeah. So I just did. Yeah, just really short and tried to go hard, but I. I mean, I could barely do 220 watts, even, like, sprinting. And then I jumped back onto the bed super fast. And he measured the blood pressure, and it had really decreased in one leg, the bad leg, compared to the other leg. Plus, the artery was going into spasm. So instead of being nice and big. At rest, it seemed fine. But then once I exercised, well, fine, you can't actually see it on an ultrasound, so it wasn't fine. When my surgeon opened me up, he told me after he'd never seen something so bad, and he wasn't even sure he'd cut into the artery because it was like, completely almost full inside of just scarring. But, yeah, on the ultrasound, it looked okay. And then after exercise, it was, like, super tiny, so there was hardly any blood getting to my leg.

It's a great story of resilience and determination. And, boy, you've got. You've probably learned a lot about how mentally tough and physically tough you are through going through this experience. And that even makes that victory even more special, doesn't it, when you've been through the mill and back again. And, yeah, for those listening, it's just a great story of someone who's really so determined and so you should be so pleased with yourself. And a big congratulations to us because that would take some resilience to stick at that. And. And, you know, you can only imagine how infuriating because you are an unbelievably good cyclist. And when you were 17, 18, and I think you were 18 when you won the Australian road title. So, you know, your ability just doesn't disappear, especially when you're training. I watched your training for almost every week on Strava from when you won that road. That road title. And I've seen you ride so many meters of climbing and. And I just always was commenting, boy, Sarah trains. She, you know, she can't be guilty of being lazy. It's.

Yeah, that's one thing I'm good at, training hard.

You are. And it was to me, I was worried that you were doing too much, and that was the cause of your problem. But it's great to hear that that wasn't the reason. It was because you were just doing exceptional kilometers. And it's really held you in good stead for now because you have such an enormous fitness base from all that work you've done. And, you know, here you are worri, you know, losing all that fitness. But we tell our athletes that, you know, once you've got this fitness bank, it's hard to take that away from because you've done the work already.

Yeah, yeah, I did notice that. I think that's something I've learned. I've had to take a lot of time off a couple times now, and, like, it feels horrible at the start. I mean, I don't enjoy taking like ages off the bike. At least this time I would. I was walking a lot, but it's not the same. Like, I had to keep my heart rate under 80 beats per minute and then I could do elliptical eventually after about five or six weeks, but, you know, under 100 beats per minute and only like every third day for, you know, started with 15 minutes. So, yeah, completely different to my normal training program of over 20 hours a week. But yeah, it's amazing how quickly it comes back. So, like I said, I was already in April. I'd only just started writing at the start of February and just really slowly every few days. And then by April I was already like equaling my best ever. 20 minute power. To be fair, before I had like one and a half legs and now I have two. But it really shows me, like when something goes wrong in a small way, like say you get a cold. In the past, when I was like a teenager, I just, you know, try to train through anything. Even like, if I had a fever, I'm like, I can do it, I can do it at least like one hour endurance. But now I'm like, oh, you know, there's no point. But also, yes, I train hard, really hard when I can, but if I have to have a few days off, it's not going to kill me. Like, I had six months off and I came back stronger. So, yeah, I'm better at taking the time to recover when needed. And actually, Dylan has told me a few times, like, wow, you're so much better, like actually sticking to your recovery weeks now. I think in the past, all my weeks was just the same.

Same. Yeah.

Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? You said that you knew there was something wrong, and that's a message that we try to get out on our podcast is you know yourself very well better than anybody else. And so if you know there's something not quite right, you should pursue it just like you did. And if you don't, you're going to be left wondering for the rest of your life. And it was really well done from you just to keep pushing and finding the right people to diagnose, diagnose you properly. But the motivated athlete is the worst athlete in the world because they, they just don't have that concept of rest. And even though when they're sick or they've got symptoms, they're just still trying to find ways to train. And, and you've learned so much now from that experience. That, and that's great. That's, that's a Real improvement and learning process that you go through from adversity. And there's always positives, isn't there? From. From the negative experience that you have gone through to understand yourself better now. And you know, when there' going, well, you know that it's not fictitious, you're not making it up, it's real. And I think that's a great lesson for the listeners to know that, you know, don't try and train through these things. The motivated athlete, that's what they're going to do. And it's detrimental. And now look where you are. You've gone from literally 12 months ago, barely being able to ride, to now at the top of the mountain as a QOM for the Giro. So huge congratulations for that.

Yeah, thank you.

And training once you came back and you could ride again, must have felt like it was a little bit on easy mode compared to riding with such pain beforehand. It must have felt so refreshing once you could ride pain free.

Oh, I was so, so happy when I started riding because I had to wait seven weeks before I touched my bike at all. And okay, the pain at rest, that went away straight away. I knew even I still had tons of pain from the wounds. But I was like, oh, I already have like no pain at rest. That aching pain. And also my feet, they were both the same temperature rather than one being like ice cold. So I already felt like it had worked, but I had no idea what it would be like at max exercise. And it's not like I just wanted to live a pain free life at rest or even just be able to ride my bike for fun. That was super important to me. That was the most important because it's as well as my job, it's like my number one hobby by a long way. So definitely I wanted to be able to ride my bike for decades with my friends and have fun. But even with my friends, like we go max all the time. My favorite rides are, you know, like the Burbs Bungee or you know, Peak Cycles, King Lake, Smash Fest. So it wouldn't satisfy me if I could just like commute again, which I couldn't even commute, but if I could just do that, that wasn't enough. So I really needed the operation to work when I'm going like full gas. And of course I was thinking about performance too because yeah, I'm a professional cyclist and if I'm only at 80% of what I was before, it's not good enough. So, or even 99, I want it to be 110% of what I was before. So, yeah, I think it was just a lot of suspense and trying not to think about it too much because I couldn't do anything in those seven weeks to know. So when I could get on the bike and it was pain free, I was, like, so relieved. And then when I did my first, I went on North Road, long ride. I don't know why I thought this was a good idea as my first. As soon as I was allowed on my road bike on the Tuesday, I went because I was riding a specialized gravel bike. I borrowed one from the Legends at Specialized Australia, a diverge. So it was nice and upright. I was like a postman for the first month. And then I was allowed on my road bike just in the hoods on, say, one particular Tuesday. And I had, like, completely forgotten how to change. The gears were different. And so I was, like, really, like, still getting used to it. I did, like two hours on the Tuesday, and then I was allowed to. I had no more heart rate limit. So the next day I went on off road, long ride. And oh, my gosh, I got so dropped. Like, really dropped. But the guys, they were really nice because I'd been there before in the past, and they waited for me at the top of two bays. And it was. I felt so guilty because I was, like, so far behind, I think. Yeah, they waited there longer than it took them to climb up two days because I got dropped right at the start of the loop. So anyway, that was a really not smart decision. But then again, I went one week later, the same thing. And, yeah, I think that time, no, everyone else took the shortcut. Everyone that got dropped with me, they took the shortcut. But then, yeah, that was the problem. I thought, oh, I'll just. I don't. I hate shortcuts. I'm doing the whole thing. But I don't mind getting dropped. I'll just do the whole thing because I'm not someone that takes shortcuts. But then, yeah, that was then. They waited for me and I was like, oh, no, you should have just kept going. But yeah, I went back the next week and I lasted maybe one minute longer. Yeah, I haven't. I never went back again. I started doing the Hawthorne Crits instead because I thought, yeah, I don't know, if you get dropped, then you're not 60Ks from home.

Well, the next next time I probably.

Saw you was what a great story.

Was on TV at stage four winning the Giro d'. Italia. So it's not a bad turnaround.

That's what I mean, I have to go back in November because you have to refresh the memory and rip their legs off. Instead of them having to wait 10.

Minutes for me specifically, you went and did it again. So that was stage four. You get to stage seven, you break away from the group again. This time Longo Borghini comes up and catches you and then you ride away from her again. So it's all happened. Second stage win. Take us through that stage. What information were you getting? What was going through your mind and how was that one on one battle?

Yeah, this stage was even harder. So we had two and a half thousand metres of climbing in 120k by the time we got to the bottom of the climb, which is really hard. And yeah, there was a breakaway that got away, but the pace was on all day. My team was amazing at trying to reduce the gap to the breakaway so that we didn't give them like a five minute head start heading into the final climb. But the focus wasn't on the stage win. We did have it in mind, but the focus was on trying to get into third spot on gc. So on the overall and I was sitting about six place. But we also wanted a buffer for the next day if possible because the next day was super hard, technical circuit back from the 2020 world champs. So basically just get as much time on GC as possible. Hopefully it's enough for third and hopefully there's a gap to fourth. I don't want to be like relying on bonus seconds on the last day because that will not go well. So yeah, my teammates did a super great job of, yeah, like limiting that gap. But there was still breakaway coming into the final climb, the original breakaway. So Shirin Van Android from Trek had a few minutes. She started up the climb and then actually on the final descent, Elise Longo Borghini along with her teammate Silvia Persico and Marlon's teammate Liana Lippit from Movistar, they got away on the descent. So it was the opposite of what you said. Elisa had a like a one minute head start as we started the steep part of the climb. It was a long climb, 14Ks. But yeah, Sylvia did like a complete burner effort on the front and she was stronger than Marlon's teammates behind who were trying to close the gap for Marlon. And my teammates also were amazing and helped close that gap. But still Sylvia was so good that Elisa started one minute ahead of us. So I was waiting for Marlon's teammates to finish their pulls and then I thought, okay, now Marlon's Definitely going to go. And even if I'm sitting on her, even though she knows I'm strong, she's gonna have to go because the overall is more important. And she was in pink, so she was leading the race. Not by that much, though, so it was completely her responsibility to chase. And, yeah, I could just be like an annoying flight on her wheel. And then in my head, I was like, I'll just sit on and then, like, drop her near the top. But her teammates, one by one, they were finishing and then they were all gone. And she didn't attack. And I was like, oh, no, this wasn't part of my plan. She just sat up and they're a bunch kind of swelled. Like, rather than being single file, we're all riding next to each other only for this is just like 100 or 200 meters. But it was just like completely not what I expected. Then luckily, my teammate, a young Belgian, super strong Laura d', Scepa, she knew this wasn't what we wanted. I prefer a hard pace like it had been. So she came to the front and strung the bunch out again for the next couple hundred meters. And then I knew there was a steep, really steep hairpin coming, and I thought, oh, well, it seems like something is wrong with Madeline. Like, she's not going. Like, maybe she's not feeling well. I mean, so. Or maybe it's just, you know, like a long week of racing, lots of heels, but I can't rely on her, basically. So then I just went myself at that hairpin and I initially, I didn't have a huge gap and looked like Barbara Malcotti from Human Failed Health was going to come across. So I did look at behind too much because I was like, oh, are they catching me? Are they not catching me? But then eventually, like, the elastic just snapped and I got away. And then I had to. I caught Shirin a few minutes later, and then in the distance, I could see Elisa Lungo Borgheni. So I caught her. Perfectly timed. By coincidence, I caught her just as the road started to flatten out a little bit. There was a tiny plateau. So I sat on her. And same as my plan with Marlon, I knew that I could rely on their fight for the overall GC to get away with things I wouldn't normally get away with. So I sat on her on that plateau, and I knew she wouldn't bother wasting time asking me to pull on the front because she was way more concerned about Marlon. So I just sat on her. And then, yeah, a few hundred meters, it Went steep again and I thought, yep, I'll try. And I was feeling good until maybe 500 meters to go. And now it's like 12% at the end of a 40 minute climb, at the end of a nearly five hour race. And then I was like, actually I'm kind of glad that my stem notes tell me I have 2k left, but it's actually only 500 meters. That's the first time I've been glad that a climb was shorter than I expected.

Yeah, yeah, I think that's an incredible story. And the confidence you had from, from the previous stage win, was that one of the things that allowed you to race slightly differently? And was it different, the DS giving you any instructions about when to go, how to go?

Yeah, I think we both had more confidence and my whole team had more confidence. So rather than just following and just purposely leaving it till as late as possible, this time we wanted to go really early. And the only reason I waited for Marlon at all was because I knew she was desperate for that title and like her team was really pacing hard. So actually the plan, before Elisa was up the road, the plan was just go early, like from the bottom of where the steep part was, go as early as possible to therefore gain as much time as possible. And yeah, I believed in it 100%. And my teammates were amazing. All of them, every single rider, like completely committed to the plan. And yeah, it was funny, the way I raced was different, but it was because of the belief.

And that result took you from sixth to third place, which got you on the overall podium and definitely established your deserved spot on top of the podium for the Queen of the Mountain jersey, which you showed.

Actually, it's funny, that day I lost the QM jersey. I had it most days of the week, but after winning stage seven because of the points allocation, I felt like the points allocation was a little bit strange. They would say like a random climb near the start of the stage would have nearly as many points as that 40 minute beast at the end of the stage. So actually I lost the QM jersey because a really strong rider from Spain, Ursula, she was in an early breakaway, so she had it by one point at the end of that day. But I was still happy because, yeah, we were more worried about the overall podium and the stage win. But then on the last day we were still worried about keeping the podium on a course like that. We weren't so much going for a stage result, but we said if we can get the QM jersey back, that would be a bonus so my teammates were so good, I felt a bit bad for usua. But when the early break was going, they were happy to let pretty much anyone go. No GC riders, but not usua. So, yeah, anytime the blue jersey moved, they moved. So, yeah, she couldn't get in any early breakaway. And then, yeah, my teammates gave me a great lead out for the first climb before the break had gone, I got the point, so I was in the lead and then we let the brake go and then we saw a drop. So I didn't have to worry about it in the second half of the race. So it turned out really well. But it was a great battle all week. It really changed hands a few times between us.

What a great confidence booster for you to come from where you were last year to where you are now. You must have been pinching yourself, going far out. This is how I know I can perform. And so you must start to think about the other aspects of your cycling, such as your time trialing, such as your positioning, if you can get those right. Boy, I think you're a minute three down on the time trial and you only lost the, you know, the overall tour by a minute 10 or something. So, yeah, tell us, tell us what you think about the other aspects now of your cycling that you, you've got the climbing seemingly back under control. What about your positioning? You mentioned before you were too far back and that's what you do a lot. Are you working on those things? Your descending skills, your time trialing skills? Obviously you, you are a great time trialer, being Australian time trial champion twice over. And, you know, I think you have beaten the Olympic champion when she was younger. So. Yeah, tell us about your thoughts about the rest of your riding, the technique of the rest of your riding angles that you're trying to improve on.

Yeah, I didn't think it really changes so much because, of course, I already knew that I had to improve my descending and positioning and I already work on my time trailing. So it's not like I come out of the Tour and be like, maybe I should work on my positioning. It's something I've been trying to work on for ages. And even in climbing, positioning is important, even in these summit finishes. I mean, in the past, I would have, I'd say would have been dropped before I got to the start of the climb. So there's no point being super strong up the climb if you're starting really far back. Or maybe I could have made it, but I would have had to use my teammates to bring me Back after that tricky descent and then they can't do a super hard pace on the bottom of the climb because I've already cooked them. So actually I was really proud of myself this week. I think it's definitely the best I've ever raced. And as the week at races in, not just uphill, but, you know, in the rest of everything else that's needed. And yeah, across the eight days, my teammates, it was really nice, they were so proud of me because they could see the progression across the week and I think just the added confidence of more race days. Like, I'd only raced six days this year and my whole career I haven't really had a lot of race days. Each year stuff goes wrong and. Or I'm not picked for races, that kind of thing. So, yeah, I think just like eight days back to back where I can practice every day. It's like any skill, you just need to practice it. So it was really cool to see the progression, but then also for my teammates to really notice it and be so proud of me. That was really nice. And yeah, it's just, of course I'm working on it, but I already was like, even before the duo, after Swiss, I did some like specific descending sessions. I did a recon with my mum of the Tour de France course, which was quite expensive. You know, like, you have to. I don't have a car here, you don't need one in Toronto, but I hired a rental car and then, you know, stayed in a bunch of Airbnbs and it was really time consuming. It was about six days, but every day we'd leave the Airbnb at 8am and then get to the next one at like nearly 9pm because not only were the transfers super long, but also I'd do my training and then we'd do more descent. So Mum would drive me up the mountain, I'd go down it, drive me up, go down it. So, yeah, it's something that I've really been working on, but it's also something that I need to continue working on and I already knew that.

That is awesome. That is such good insight into kind of the stuff that you have to do to prepare for these grand tours. Got some questions to finish off that I'd love more of that kind of insight, just in terms of the training right before. Yeah, what is the. What is the training made up of? How many hard sessions a week you're doing, how many climbing days, how many threshold days, like time trial and practice? How do you split that up?

Yeah, so actually in the past, like when I did win those two national titles on the TT bike, I did so much time trial specific training, I really focused on it from say November all the way till nationals. I would use my time trial back for key sessions, even like two, three times a week, plus some other sessions sometimes like recovery rides. But because of the iliac artery problem which required me to be upright, remember I said I was on a gravel bike. It's completely the opposite of a time trial bike. And I wasn't allowed to bend over so much. Like it wasn't like a rule, but it was, you know, strong suggestion like stay upright as long as possible. Yeah. So. Well, it was a rule at the start but after that I still stayed upright longer. I just was quite conservative, which is unlike my normal self. But I really didn't want to mess this up. So no time trial back until May. And then, yeah, I was just about to start working on it because I was meant to do Walter Burgos in May. So I was like, oh, it's already not enough time. But it was the best I could do. Right. So I just like went to start it. I had it on my training peaks that week. Like first time trail session. Oh, just endurance but still. First time on the TT bike since like well, September. And then I dislocated my shoulder which again required me to be really upright. So actually I only, I got to Europe and then I had my two tours like Norway and Swiss. I only did a recovery rides on the TT bag because I couldn't really like jump in and just start doing like max efforts on the TT bike when I hadn't used it in like nearly a year. Yeah. So I did a few recovery rides like between the tours. I was also more focused on what was required for the tour. So like after Norway, yeah, I did the recovery rides in the TT bag but I needed to be doing like, you know, VO2 max and like climbing efforts for Swiss. And then after Swiss, yeah, I had the recon with my mum and then all the descending practice here. So I really didn't have much time. I did two days, two days of efforts in the last year on the tt bike. So two 30 minute efforts and that was it. So I did feel really underprepared. But of course still, it's still riding your bike. So yeah, it translated a little bit. But I have to say like my power in the TT, I was saying I was, I did for that 40 minute climb at the end of the five hour race or I didn't have it Here, but It was over 5 watts per kilo. So say, I don't know, in the 250s maybe. And then in. And that's. Yeah, that's a 40 minute climb at the end of a really hard race. On stage seven of hard racing. And the TT was stage one, like completely fresh. We use like sodium bicarbonate, so nitrate shots, like everything like caffeine to the max. And I only did. And it was 18 minutes, right. I only did 230 watts. So a big power difference. Like if I went on the road black, I could do, I'm sure if I could do 280 in April, I'm sure I could do more now, but. But yeah, then I have that huge power difference still, so I know I can get it closer and I have in the past, but definitely room for improvement there.

It does show you, doesn't it, Sarah, how specific the training needs to be to really maximize the benefits and the correlation. When you were doing lots of time trial training, you performed really well in your time trial.

Exactly. I still had a gap, but I could do, I think my best. I did like 2 by 20 minutes at 270 with 5 minutes in between. I was doing a national simulation and now. And say my max 20 minute would have been in the two 80s then, so what, 10, 15 watts? But yeah, that was nearly four. That was 40 minutes with a five minute gap and now like completely max. So fresh, tapered, like all the extra little half percenters and I could only do 2:30.

So yeah, really, you must be super excited knowing that you can time trial. You are a really good time trials. You just need time to get back to that level. So that would be super exciting knowing you're one of the best climbers now in the women's peloton and you are a good time trialist. You just need time to get back to that form. It must be exciting to know that the two key things that win GC across the world over the decades are you have to be a time trialist and you have to be able to climb and you're already showing us that you're the best climber and you just got to get that next piece, which is the time trialing. And of course you're positioning and you're descending.

Yeah, I was going to say, I think you need a great team. Good positioning and solid descending. So a few pieces of the puzzle.

But yeah, and you could have a good team. You can have a good team.

I already have that far. So that's.

But what I'm going to say is you could have a good team if you're not a very good climber or time trialist or, you know, it doesn't matter how good your team is if you don't have the legs to time trial or hill climb, it doesn't matter how good your team is, you're not going to be where you are now. So it must be super exciting knowing that you've got this opportunity coming up. The future is looking so good if you can get time in the TT bike.

Yeah, exactly. And I can, so that's great.

And one key question everyone loves to know, and you mentioned it there with some supplements, but nutrition and supplements. What kind of nutrition are you taking on those big mountain days? What are you getting in from breakfast right through the stage. Do you know off the top kind of how many grams of carbs you're having per hour?

Yeah, we use an app called Eat My Ride. So our sports dietitian, she was there on the ground with us, but she'd also put everything in the app plan. So, you know, we're talking like 3, 4 grams per kilo of carbs in breakfast. So already a really big breakfast and then that's three hours before, then like a snack, an hour before snack on the start line or just like carb things like I love the 60 fruit chews but you know, some of my teammates don't mind a gel or a bottle of carb mix. And then in the race on the hard days, up to 120 grams per hour. And then even on the really easy days, there was like one day where I felt like I was hardly peddling but it was still 90 grams an hour. So yeah, really high carb intake.

And then for the time trial you mentioned sodium bicarbonate. This is something that I can't find much information on, but we know a lot of the top athletes around the world are having it. What's the protocol? How are you it and yeah, what is it?

Yeah, so to buffer the lactic acid. I haven't taken it that much. I just started when I joined this team last year and we don't really get many opportunities to do time trials, sadly. So I think I've only used it about four times and I tried it once in training just in case because some people have really bad stomach issues with it. But we just use the 60 pills so they're, you know, like safe with water. So anti doping that they've checked that they're, you know, batch tested and it's pretty easy. I don't know how many I take because the, the sports scientist from the team, he sends, sends the times and how many I have to take. But I remember the first lot of about five pills I had to take. It was during the one hour recon where you do like the TT course in the morning with the whole paladin. So there were, yeah, about 150 riders all on TT bikes with area helmets. And then I'm just trying to like reach. I don't have pockets. I'm in my skin suit, trying to reach into like my leg and like grab out this like dodgy looking bag of white pills. Eating the build in the middle of our. Yeah, mass recon. So I think that would have been three hours before. So it's like five pills and then three pills. Three pills, something like that. And you finished an hour and a half before. But I don't know if I can really tell the difference, to be honest. I just do it because I'm told.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's legal.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's strong science behind it, but there's not much insight into how it actually. Yeah, the protocol. So that's super helpful. So look, to finish, I was surprised to learn, you know, this week we were trying to set up a time to chat the podcast and I thought you'd have quite a easy recovery week and maybe you guys could relax and celebrate a bit. But it sounded like you were straight back into training and team meetings. You got to go to a team meeting now, so we got to cut this off. But what's, what's next for you? What's the focus? How do the next few weeks look and what's the setup?

Yeah, so on Monday I find out if I am doing the Tour de France. So I did, I thought I was. So I did the recon and everything. And even if I don't do the Tour, I think it really helped. Even though they were the Tour specific descents, I think it helped in general with descending. But yeah, I, I find out on Monday if I actually am doing it. So fingers crossed, if I am, then I'll have to pack my suitcase pretty quickly because I think the Tour starts on Saturday, which means for a big race like that we get there about three days beforehand. So yeah, I guess fly out a couple days after I find out if I am going.

Are they worried about your fatigue from the duo?

Yeah, I think that's the issue because no one else. Well, unless I don't know who would be going instead of me if I don't go. But as it stands, no one in the Tour did the duo. So. And for my team, some teams are actually taking pretty much the same squad and some teams are taking completely different squad. So, yeah, I find out on Monday. Fingers crossed for that. If I'm not going, then I have the upside of being able to spend even more time with my brother and his wife, who are visiting Girona and arrive on Sunday night. So I have things to look forward to either way. But I really hope that I get to rest. Stage 8 looks amazing. Straight Madeline.

Totally. Oh, my goodness. Yep.

And the legs are feeling pretty good as of now.

Yeah, I hardly ever have a full rest day. I'm really good at taking my two recovery days every week, so one hour easy spin, but I don't often choose to have a full rest day. But I. Well, I. I didn't choose this time. Dylan told me this is important. But I had two full rest days. Monday travel day and Tuesday. I. I don't even know what I did. If you asked me what I did, I couldn't tell you. I just, like, pretty much, like, sat in my apartment and, like, just rotted on my bed. I just ate a lot of food and looked at my phone a bit, and that's about it. Oh, I. I did the shopping because I needed food, but I. Yeah, it took me till, like, Wednesday to even look at my dirty washing and stuff like that. I was pretty tired mentally. Um, but, yeah, it's quite low volume this week, so I'm still training as though I'm going to the Tour just in case. And, yeah, still, I was surprised, actually, to see that I have, like, three really hard days in there. Or maybe it's. No, I think it is three. So yesterday I did some threshold work. Tomorrow I have, like, max VO2 efforts. Sunday, I still have four hours endurance, but rather than, like, properly trucking around. Zone's a little bit lower than normal, but, yeah, still solid. Just I had those full rest days and, you know, like an extra. Today's super easy. Just an hour recovery, even though I've only had one hard day. So definitely focusing on recovery and not too much volume. But, yeah, just eating a lot, sleeping a lot, and crossing my fingers that I get to go well.

Sarah, what a fantastic interview. Congratulations again. A huge congratulations. What a performance. Thank you so much for the insight today. All those details are just invaluable. Getting to hear your mindset around what's happening with the race strategy, you know, you trying to figure out what the other riders are doing all the information around the power DS information, race day strategy. It's just so, so cool. So if you do ride the tour, big, good luck. We'll be supporting you. And thank you very much for this episode and joining us.

Yeah.

Thank you so much.

That's it for this episode. Thanks for everyone, as always, for listening, and we'll see you on the next.

Sa.