#14 Creating a Life True to Yourself

Foreign.

And welcome to purpose Fueled Performance with me, your host, Tim Jones, the grow good guy.

Hey. So in this episode I'm talking to Brock Edwards who is a man on a mission, that is for sure. He is one tuned up dude. And we go pretty deep pretty quick on this one where we, you know, it's all about, I guess for me.

The reason why most people aren't living.

A life that's true to themselves, which typically means they're not living an authentic life, which means you're not really going to be able to live a truly purpose driven life. Because there's two main parts to purpose as I see it. One is contribution. That's, that's a major part of purpose. But the second part of purpose is doing the contribution that you've been designed to be able to do to the.

Best of your ability.

So this is a pretty cool one. Bit of a humdinger. So, so yeah, sit back, relax, get your favorite tipple and get amongst it.

Welcome to Imperfect Action with Brock Edwards and today, well, actually before we even get to today, of course, you know, this is the podcast where we're looking for information and inspiration to really take that next step or maybe that first step for whatever we've got going on in our lives. Whether it's venturing out, starting our own business, maybe just starting a side gig, or just taking on that big project in our lives. And it's. But you know, the title of this is based on the idea that imperfect action beats perfect inaction because it's so easy to get bogged down into making things perfect that we miss just moving forward. And so really excited for today's guest we have Tim Jones. Tim, you are based in New Zealand and that's all the introduction I'm going to do for you. Why don't you tell everyone a bit about yourself and what you're up to.

Fantastic. So yeah, as we would say in New Zealand, to welcome a large group of people. Kia ora koto. That's correct. I'm Tim, based in Christchurch, New Zealand. So the South Island, New Zealand, we've got two islands. Well, three if you include Stewart island at the very bottom. Yes, I'm based down here and I am the grow good guy. So I'm all about helping build people and organizations with heart. So I work predominantly with people on their own or in small groups or with large companies and try and help them navigate the journey to being more purpose driven and see how they can make more positive impact in the world. So that's kind of What I'm up to.

Awesome. So, I mean, big question. Well, how do you do that? And I'll narrow that question down. That's a little unfair, Tim. But yeah. So purpose. And you're operating on a couple levels, what you just said. They're helping both individuals and organizations. And, you know, purpose is such a big concept. So where. Where do you even begin with it? I mean, I think most people have a sense that purpose is important and they want to have purpose. And I feel like people are searching to find. Find, you know, that one perfect purpose for them, whatever it is. Where do you start them?

And that. That is the. That is almost like the million dollar question. And when I first kind of got into talking about purpose and trying to explain it, and I kind of would frequently say it's like trying to explain the taste and smell of the number three, because it is really ethereal. It's. It's like, you know, trying to nail jelly to the wall. It's like, it's really, really hard.

And there's a real danger of. As you try to connect to it a little bit more. And I know that you've interviewed a good mate of mine, Zach Mercurio, recently. You know, as he says, you don't kind of stumble across purpose. The purpose is in there. You've just got to unearth it and connect to it. And to be honest, the place where I typically start is by asking people, where is the disconnection? Rather than where the connection is? Because most people, if you look at the statistics from. I think it's like Gallup polls, globally, you know, between 70 and 80% of people are disengaged in the workplace. And yet the workplace is where we spend the majority of our day, week, month, year, life.

So there's clearly this big disconnect that a lot of people have. And so it's kind of what I call the authenticity gap. So who is the real you versus who is the you that you're kind of having to be to go and do your job or do whatever you do, mostly during the. During the week. And what's the disconnect? Like, where's the gap? What's the. What's the real you wanting to do versus what's you having to do? If that kind of makes sense? Because I think if you can articulate that, then you have a real sense of what you need to start working on and how you can start finding connection to what you're looking for. Because ultimately, in kind of all the reading and research I've done on purpose. There's kind of three things. Well, two things that every human's looking for is connection. And within that, I would, I would also put love. But I kind of use love and connection almost interchangeably because there's different levels, I think, of love and connection and meaning. And I think that's where we struggle a lot in the modern world, is we're not very connected and we don't really see much meaning in the work that we're doing.

Yeah. So.

Well, so let me ask Tim. You know.

I've seen the numbers around the disconnection at work, you know, the lack of engagement. And for me, the interesting thing was they effectively haven't changed since Gallup started measuring them a decade and a half ago. There's been little blips, but it really just hovers around 30% engagement. And despite all the effort, despite all the talk, the blogs, the books, the podcasts, everything, all the money being thrown at it. And it occurs to me that.

If you're disengaged at work. Well, I guess what occurs to me, what I've always wondered about, is.

How many of those people are also disengaged in their own lives. Because if you're disengaged in your life, it's unlikely you show up at work and then suddenly you're magically engaged. And so I've just always wondered, are we focusing our efforts on the wrong end? Like fixing work isn't going to make you engaged in the rest of your life. Getting engaged in the rest of your life might actually get you engaged at work.

And, you know, it strikes me that's what you're really talking about here, that, that meaning, that connection, that, that more there. So in today's busy world, how do you find meaning? How do you make meaning of it?

100%. And you know, my, one of my views is that time is one of the biggest tools of oppression that we all suffer under. You know, we're. Everyone I know is busy. You know, I'm 40 years old, I've got a six year old daughter. There's not another parent that I know through school who isn't just like, oh my word, I just don't have, I don't have five minutes to even stop and think. And I think culturally that, you know, particularly in the West, I guess I can only speak for a Western democratized nation's white middle class viewpoint in many ways on that. But I think if you look at declining rates of prosperity across most Western democratized nations, and then, you know, I'D say anecdotally, almost every family we know, both parents, are having to work to make ends meet and to try and inadverted commas get ahead. Whereas I think a generation ago, I think time in many ways was perhaps more. You know, I think a generation ago you'd finish work at 5 o' clock or 6 o' clock and it would be done. Whereas now work creeps into life. So I think there's an element of that. But you're 100% right. And this is part of where I sort of think that there's that authenticity gap. It's like, who are you on the weekend versus who are you Monday to Friday? And where's the difference? And typically the real you is the you that's out on the weekend because that's when you're relaxed and you're at one and you're more likely to be hanging out with people that you're choosing to hang out with. You know, friends, family, so on and so forth. Whereas Monday to Friday, you, you know, you might have to front up, put the suit on, put it, put a identity or a Persona of, well, I work in this kind of organization and people in this organization behave in this way.

I mean, there's a really classic, such a sad story. I heard this recently. I was talking to a young lady who'd recently exited from working for one of the big consulting firms. And she was recounting, you know, one of the stories that helped her realize that she was on the wrong path working in that organization was when she was talking to one of the senior partners in this organization and he was coming to his mid-60s, you know, looking at retiring, and he basically was saying to her how he felt he'd wasted the 40 years of his life by working in this big organization, you know, working his way up to become senior partner at a national level. And all he ever wanted to do was basically work in what we call over here is like miter 10, but you guys would probably call it Home Depot. Like that's all he wanted to do. But he spent 40 years of his life living someone else's life. And I think that's the real risk. If you don't connect to that, who are you and what does the real you stand for and value? And what, what does connection and meaning mean to you? Then there is always going to be that disconnect. And I think for humans to thrive, you have to ideally get those two points to vector in together. Otherwise there's always going to be a disconnect. You're always going to have to be someone else when you're at work versus when you're at home. And that is where, I think a lot of people end up with midlife crises. That's where we have a lot of mental health issues, is because people are having to be two people or more than two people.

Yeah. So, Tim, first off, that absolutely breaks my heart.

I just love it when people are able to live up to their potential or even close to their potential, whatever it is they define as success and themselves. And it hurts so much when someone misses that. And.

I remember hearing a quote. I didn't actually read the whole book. I think it was a Tolstoy character who on his deathbed said, what if my whole life has been a mistake?

And I may be getting that slightly wrong, but the spirit of it's on. And that's a brutal thing to face. I mean, you know, we're all going to have that moment where we reflect back on our lives. And.

That'S a rough question. And then we also see.

You know, there's a lot of work, a lot being said about authenticity in the workplace, so. And the importance of it. And I think intuitively, we all get the idea that when we're able to be our whole self, we are a higher functioning human being.

So.

Where is the disconnect or how do we bridge that? Why do we feel the need to front up, as you said?

Well, I think.

My take on that is, you know, we are. We are tribal animals who want to be liked.

So there's an element of, you know, and, and, you know, you can take this to. To. To America, like, I am a Jones. You no longer have to keep up with the Joneses. I release you all from having to keep up with me or any other of my family. There is this perception that, you know, well, for me to fit in, you know, I have to live in this kind of. If I do this kind of job, I have to drive this kind of car, I have to live in this kind of house. Da, da, da, da, da. So there's an element of that which is like basic, I guess, psychology that, you know, we want to be liked by the tribe. We don't want to be thrown out by the tribe, because if we are, then we're not going to survive because we need to work with each other. But one of the two other layers behind that there's, you know, as an adult, 95% of your decision making is run by your subconscious thinking, and your subconscious is fully formed between the ages of 4 and 7 as a child. So actually, who you are as an adult is very rarely your own choosing. You know, the cultural narratives, the belief systems that you hold to be true. You know, like I say, you know, if you, if you've grown up with a family where mum and dad are both lawyers and accountants, there's a very high probability that you're going to end up on a very similar track. Whereas if you know, Mum and dad were both working in a factory, there's a very high probability that you're going to end up on that same path because you don't want to necessarily break those cultural traditions or narratives. So I think there's that. But then on top of it, you layer on the kind of consumerist culture that we live in where there is this daily assault on your self worth. I mean, one of my favorite adverts that I like to pick apart and I won't name names in case I don't want you to get in trouble, but there is a brand of beer that is sold and it comes from somewhere south of the border from where you are. And one. And one of their taglines that they have over here is from where you'd rather be. And, you know, it just encapsulates that what they're saying is your life isn't very good, but if you go and buy a box of our beer and you go and drink it, you can pretend that you're anywhere else in the world. So just kind of consume our stuff and life's going to be better. And for me, that just sums up the modern consumerist world we live in, where they are. You have this daily assault on your self worth, which is easily fixed by you buying some stuff which will make you happy for a little bit. And it's called the hedonic treadmill. And so you go on this little loop of happiness and then you realize, oh, actually, you know, brock's got an iPhone 10, so therefore I'm not good enough. So I need to. I now need to go get the iPhone 10 and then you get the 11 when they launch that and you go round and round and round on this little consumerist treadmill of trying to make yourself feel happy and connected. Whereas actually what you really need is that sense of purpose and meaning and contribution in your. In your life on a more deep level. So I think there's this. It's kind of, you know, I call it your life trajectory. So who are you? Based on the fact that you're not probably who you've chosen to Be, it's, it's who other people have influenced you to be. And really, interestingly, that is the number one regret of people close to dying is I wish I'd lived a life true to myself, not the life that others had wished I'd lived. And then you layer on top of that the, the fact that we all want to fit in, and then you layer on top of that the general barrage on our self worth and just buy stuff, buy stuff, you'll be happy. And I think that's three really powerful mechanisms that lead a lot of people to get to a point where they just go, I don't know who I am. And a bit like this guy who was in this consulting firm, he was so far down the rabbit hole that he couldn't turn around and go, do you know what? I want out? And that's the real trick, that's where you get completely trapped, is I think there are so many people that would happily.

Click the button, restart, do something completely different, but they're trapped in the system and having that transparency, the vulnerability and the courage to turn around and go, this isn't what I want. But we're really bad at admitting we're wrong.

So, all right, so, Tim, the way this is set up, so between the ages of 4 and 7, I form my identity and then I, you know, we all take on what, we take on the beliefs around us, beliefs on who we are and how we fit in and how we need to fit in. And so the tough question then is, well, you mentioned living a life true to myself, but if all this was formed by the time I was, you know, basically in first grade, how do I know what true to myself is? How do I discover that?

And that is the hard work.

That is where, like, if you, if you crack that, the rest of it comes real easy. And that was the first stage that I kind of realized for myself was it's like, how did I end up working for this, for these companies, thinking that, making a ton of money whilst knowingly these companies and the surgeons, some of the surgeons, not all of them, some of the surgeons working with them are killing people in pursuit of profit over patient outcomes. How did I get to this point where I thought that was cool? Because that's not cool. Like when you just pause for a second and go, like, if you stop someone on the street and said, hey, look, you're going to earn some good money, you can help these other people earn some good money. We all call that. You go, yeah, okay, that sounds pretty cool. Okay, but, but by doing that, you're going to kill these people over here. Like, if you, if you logically just stopped and paused and presented that, you'd Hope, you know, 99.9% of humans would go, no, I'm not interested, I'll go and do something else. Yet. For 10 years that was what I was doing. And so for me, I literally had to break down and go, okay, well what led me here? And then I went back through the journey and it's like, okay, well, it was the influence of my schooling, which was very much, you know, it's a great school in terms of, you know, the facilities and so on and so forth. But I mean, I clearly remember talking to the careers master one day and I sort of said to him, you know, I'm really curious because I used to walk through the town that the school was in every day to get to school. I said, I'm really curious. I walked past all these shops in town every morning. How does that work? Do people own the buildings? Do they just rent the building? Do they own all the product in there? I just don't understand how any of it works. And his reply was, boys from this school don't work in shops. You don't need to worry about it. And so I had these moments that pop through where it's like, oh, this is where some of these things come from. Like, I was put on this path through schooling that I would go to university, I would get a degree, I would go and do something that's professional and well respected and that's normal and that's success, so just go and do it and don't. And in an environment where you were taught not to question. So I kind of went all the way back and it's like, my word, this makes so much sense now.

I was conditioned to get to where I wanted to be because the system and my parents around me could go, hey, look, this kid's successful, he's got a highly paid job in the medical device industry, helping people like, Bravo, round of applause. Isn't him amazing? Haven't we done a great job? And so understanding who the major influences were on your life, but also trying to really connect back and understand, trying to get back to that 4 to 7 year old child and well, what actually did give you joy and connection and meaning at that age and if you can kind of try and do that work. And so I know, you know, Simon Sinek in his work, he gets people to reflect on that question, what did you want to be when you were a kid, because that four to seven year old kid like that is almost the closest version of the true human that you, you will have ever been because you're relatively, you know, unscathed from, from your peers and society and parents trying to morph you and influence you to be what they want you to be. And you have that real innate sense of who you are and what you want to be. So if you can kind of unbundle why you've ended up where you are and get back as far back as you can and understand, well, what, what was it that I might want it to have been had. Had I had no other external influences. And then at the same time, for me, when I look back on what I did like about my time working in the medical industry was I liked helping people and I liked serving people and I like making sure that other humans thrived. And it's like, okay, so if I can pull those three things out and I can apply them in a slightly different medium with the knowledge that I now have, I'm probably going to be on a pretty good route to finding some connection and meaning here. So. Yeah. Does that all make sense?

Yeah, absolutely. Certainly a lot to think through there on this. And I knew when I asked it it wasn't a small question.

Go ahead, Tim. To summarize, it's. Try and work out what was that first thing that you thought might want to be and go through the process of unbundling what other layers that have been put on top of you by other people that have led you to be where you are today. And if it's all still in alignment and it's cool and you're not making any negative impact on the world, then you're pretty good to go. But I think most people will stop and realize actually by me doing what I'm doing is impacting me, it's impacting my family or it's impacting other people. And that's where that disconnect turns up.

Yeah.

You know, when you're talking, it occurred to me that the, you know, when you talk about kind of what the life that's been laid out for us, you know, our tribe, that, you know, there's, it seems like there's caps on both ends. You know, you just, you hear people talk about.

You know, essentially, you know, you're above that. In fact, that was kind of in your, in your story there. Just, you know, don't worry about having to do that. You'll be doing this.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And then, but on the other on the other end of it, it almost seems like there's the cap of, you know, well, who do you think you are to aspire to that? You know.

It'S like, here's your defined place and yeah, you can go do a little worse or a little better.

Exactly. But don't, don't rock the boat. Don't be one of those tall poppy. In New Zealand, we call it tall poppy syndrome. Like, if there's a tall poppy, you cut it off. And I've got, you know, I've got another story. There's a, there's a guy I know in Christchurch, you know, he comes from a farming background, farming family. And in his cultural narrative, when you hit 16, you left school and you came to work on the farm with the plan that you take over the farm. And he was like, no, I want to go to, I want to finish school till I'm 18 and I want to go to university and do design and art because I have a real creative flair. And, you know, he had to battle that to eventually go and do that. And he did that in the end, you know, But I think that those people are generally the outliers, you know, the people that actually have that true calling and are deeply connected to it and have the courage to go against parental, societal, you know, peer systems at a young age. I mean, the best analogy I think I've got, if any of your listeners are Monty Python fans and probably showing my age deeply there, but Monty Python and the Holy Grail, when the young prince is trapped in the, in the castle and it's his wedding day and he, he tries, he's trying to escape and he's like, I just want to sing and dance. I want to be, I want to be an actor. I don't want to be, I don't want to be a king. And I think it's that, that gets squashed in a lot of us by just having to, you know, toe the line and do the right thing. And that's what is going to kill you ultimately. And I think you kind of touched on it also. It's that, you know, humans would rather have this long term, low grade pain of waking up every day knowing that what they're doing isn't actually fulfilling them and they're not actually thriving. They're probably just surviving rather than having the short, sharp pain of like, we're going to pull the band aid off, it's going to take some hairs with it, it's going to hurt. But once you're through this, it's going to be sweet. And that's what that kind of the purpose journey entails. It's like you're going to have to pull the band aid off and just realize that there's some stuff under there that, you know, isn't going to look pleasant, but we're going to fix it to a deeper level.

Yeah, it makes, makes me think of the Henry David throw quote about the mass of men leading lives of quiet desperation. You know, 100%.

It's like we want more, but either we don't dare dream or even if we dream, we don't quite know how to get there. And the.

Small pain of each day is.

Perhaps more bearable than the sharp, short pain. You talk about pulling the bandage off quickly.

100%. 100%. And then we look at, in New Zealand, guys my age, we have the highest rate of male suicide of guys aged 40 to 50 in the OECD. And also we have the highest rate of teenage suicide in the oecd. And we live in literally one of the world's most beautiful countries. And it's like, how can our lives be that bad that that's what we're doing to each other or doing to ourselves? And so, so do we. Yeah, I think it's a real.

Yeah. So let me ask you, I mean, you talk about this daily assault on, on self worth and.

Is it that we're doing so well that we think we should be doing so much better?

A couple generations ago when we were still agricultural, pre industrial.

There was only so much you can do, there was only so many resources. And now we just have this abundance of resources and this abundance of options. We know that it's no longer. I have to be the 12th generation of the family business. I can, I can fight it. There are options. I can go do something else. And does.

I almost feel like, you know, sometimes in my life that's left me feeling lost? Well, okay, I kind of got to step it up because, you know, I've got all this going for me here, 100%.

So I think that there's two parts to that. You know, again, in the western democratized world, collectively we've never had it so good. Yet collectively we've never felt so bad. Like you look at the rates of mental illness, you know, systemic diseases, cancers, heart disease, like all massively high and rising. Yet like you say, we. I mean, I used to quote Elon Musk landing his rocket ship in the middle of the Pacific on a floating pontoon as to what humans can do. But that's now been bested a couple of months ago by a group of Japanese scientists who landed a robot on an asteroid in outer space. You know, we, we can do that. That's what humans can do. Like we, we literally can almost do anything that we want. Yeah, we, we feel so bad. So for me it's like, and, and I guess the second part to that is if you go to the supermarket and you just want to buy a tin of baked beans, if there's a hundred tins of baked beans, all from different brands, with one's got sausage in it and one's got this in it, one's got that in it, how do you typically feel? You feel overwhelmed and it's really hard to make a choice and so you kind of walk away and you don't get what you need. So I think we do have this abundance of choice and it's daily being increased. I mean you look at just things that you could buy. I've got a six year old daughter. Things that you can buy for a six year old kid. I mean you go into any store today, there's like probably like, I don't know, 10, 20,000 different things you could maybe go and buy. For a kid that age. What does she actually need? She needs my love, she needs my time, she needs my attention, she needs me to go and hang out with her.

And I think that is at the heart of where we are in this modern world is like you say, we have access to everything, but actually what we want is just someone to say, do you know what, Brock? I love you. You're amazing. You're doing good. That's all we're looking for. But we go and seek that in buying the new car or the new gadget or the new thing, or spending two hours a day on Twitter or Facebook having fake mini connections instead of actually just having that deep connection to other humans and doing, you know, we talked about. How do you, how do you define purpose or what is purpose like? For me it comes down to doing something that's bigger than yourself in service of other people that also enlivens your existence. Like that's not buying stuff online.

You know, that's going out and offering yourself in service with other humans and understanding and empathy and connection and love and doing something and getting in the outdoors and. And you can't sell that.

That's the thing. No one makes money on doing that.

Exactly, yeah.

It's easy to forget that's an option, I guess because we're not assaulted with advertising for it. And it's easy to be distracted by the shiny versus the 100%.

100% going for the meeting. Yeah. I mean don't forget that the globally the advertising industry spends about $500 billion a year trying to make you buy stuff that predominantly you don't need, but they make you want it. And you, you know, you as an individual, you do not have anti jamming software coming out of your head unless you're very awakened and you, and you know what I mean. I've spent 10, 15 years in sales and marketing so I kind of know what people are trying to do to me so I'm really wise to it and I kind of just observe it, you know, more casually and go, I see what you're doing there, see how you're trying to make me see, you know, I'm seeing how you're trying to manipulate me and influence me. But for most people who are time poor and just trying to get through their day and just trying to be a good partner, just trying to be a good parent, it's, you know, they wouldn't be spending $500 billion a year if it didn't work.

So what I want to start doing is buying up some advertising spaces around Christchurch potentially to start with and just put a big picture of a walking track with just go for a walk with nothing else on it to start doing some of that sort of jamming four people.

So wow.

I mean we could, I could go on a long time talking about this. I love thinking about, about purpose and meaning and how do I step that up in my own life? And one of the things I noticed before we wrap up here is on your own website you mentioned that your mission is to make New Zealand the most purpose driven country in the world.

Yep.

So like Tim, that's not a small mission. And.

How do you do that? Where do you, where do you begin?

It's not a small mission but I think for me ultimately that's part of purpose. Like the more you dig into purpose, the more you connect to it, the bigger you want to play. And it's cool if people want to stop, stop relatively small and go, look, I'm just going to focus on being really purpose driven in my own family. Like we need that. But I think for me I just want to play as big as I can, you know, in terms of legacy, in terms of what does success look like? Equally, New Zealand is a really interesting place. Like we were a population of between 4 and 5 million people, so we're a rounding error on a United States population census.

So we're really small, we're quite connected. You know, we have the NZ50, so we have 50 big businesses in New Zealand that we can try and you know, if we could influence them, we pretty much can influence the whole of New Zealand. And at the heart of being a Kiwi, like I'm originally from the uk, so I'm an immigrant into New Zealand. And at the heart of being a Kiwi, we have like these, we have these amazing characters like Edmund hit us, Edward Edmund Hillary, who was the first guy to, to summit Everest. We have Kate Sheppard, who was the lady who got women the vote first. We're the first country in the world to get women to vote. We have a massive anti nuclear stance, which means we don't accept US warships into our ports. During the 1970s, we ran protests against anti apartheid and said, no, the South African rugby team can't come here unless you stop having apartheid. Like, as Kiwis, we can muster ourselves for big challenges and we can kind of cohesively get together and recognize that doing good, good makes sense. And so it's kind of in our DNA to be really purpose driven. I think we've just been lost. We've just been like, like almost every other human, we've been sold the sizzle, as we would say here. You know, the sausage smells great and it's sizzling and it looks fantastic, but actually we don't want that anymore. And so I think, I think, I think it could be done relatively easily here if we, if we can do, do any country to, to fully transform to being 100% purpose driven. I think New Zealand is one of the first that we can do that. So why not start here?

Yeah, Nice. I love that it's so big and yet you've broken it down to where it, I mean, you've convinced me that it's doable.

To come and move to New Zealand. You can be the number two. You can help me get this going. There you go.

Yeah.

No, I love that mission, that purpose. So as we wrap up here, two questions I always ask my guests. And one is, where can people find you? And then the second one is how can the listeners help you?

Wow. So to find me, if you just put Tim Jones Growgood into any search engine if you can't find me, I kind of say the Internet is probably broken. But other than that, just if you look for Growgood Co, that's my website, Growgood Co. How can people help me? Just start the purpose conversation, you know, if we can normalize the idea that going to work and not enjoying it and going out on the weekend and getting maybe really drunk and then buying a lot of stuff if we can. If we can kind of help people realize that although most people are doing that, that's not normal. That's not what we should be doing. And actually living more purposefully is the right thing to do. Yeah. Start that conversation and spread the purpose. The purpose bug. That would be fantastic.

Awesome. Love it. Well, Tim, it has been great having you on the show. I say I love these conversations and I need to go think about it.

Fantastic. Hey, thank you so much for what you're doing and for having me on, because I think, you know, there are these multiple touch points of people like yourselves and Zach and others in the world who, you know, we can just start normalizing these conversations. And I think that's a massive part towards getting where we need to be.

Absolutely.

And that's a wrap.

Hey, thank you so much for listening into my podcast. I hope you found it informative and inspirational. I'd love to know where you are.

On your purpose journey. And if you have any specific questions.

Or people you'd like me to interview to help you on that journey, please.

Do let me know.

Also, feel free to connect with me on other social media platforms. You can check out all those links in the show notes below.

And if you want to see how.

I might be able to help you specifically on your purpose journey, you can go and check out my website, www.growgood.co or drop me a line by email, timogrogood.co. all those links will also be in the show notes. I would genuinely love to hear from you. But anyway, until next time, go well and keep seeking that purpose. Fuel performance in your life.