#53 B Local Ōtautahi Christchurch - B Corp Month Breakfast Panel: We Go Beyond

Hello. Kia ora. How's it going? We'll go all official and proper with a tedakoto katoa ko iwitha me opuki ngamoanga ko 10 te awa ko feta okutupuna I tipu ake aho ki Oxford, UK it 2004 Iharimae oki atera Katie noho otatahi ko Jones toku whaniwanga ko tim toku ingawa norea. Tenakoto. Tenakoto. Tenakoto katoa. Welcome. We think this possibly is the largest B Local event in the history of New Zealand. So round of applause for that. It's B Local. It's B Corp month. So a round of applause for that.

It's the 10 year anniversary of B Corp in this region. Is that right? Yep. So a round of applause for that and a round of applause for you all getting up at this ungodly hour. It's like we organized this event and on the way in I'm like, why did we do a breakfast event? It's still nighttime. What is going on? So yeah, if you hadn't worked out, this is the B Local event for otatahi Christchurch for 2023 put together by the team at Be Local, which is. Well, we've got the slide for that. Let's go all official, which is myself, you, Cathy and Cath. We ran out of names. We had a team and it's like, Cath, Cathy. Yeah, we'll just stick with those. So if you're a Cath or a Cathy and you work for a B corp and you want to come and join the committee, we take Cath and Kathy's Only from now on, B Locals are. They're all over the world. So there's B Local, Auckland, B Local, Wellington, B Local Christchurch. And basically it's local B Corps who do events to try and bring the B Corp community together as well as bringing be curious and wannabes into the fold so they can come and meet some real life B Corps. So yeah, me, Cath and Kathy. Well, Kath and I, we started first doing B Locals. I don't know, like literally almost a decade ago. And it would be me, Cath and Steve and maybe a couple of other people. Are you guys still a B Corp? Yep, we're still a B Corp. Cool. No one else who's a B Corp?

No.

Okay, I will see you next year. Yep. Cool. So it's really cool to see so many unfamiliar faces in the room. So, yeah, if you want to know more about B Local, come and Find one of us at the end. Yeah. So to kick off with, well, what are we going to cover off? So we're going to have a quick intro and briefing from Francis from Kathmandu just to let us know what we need to do if anything happens in the building or there's any crazy weather events. And then we'll have Kyule from B Lab giving us a quick opening address. And we've got a little video we're going to play just to summarize some of the cool things going on in the B Corp movement around the region. And then obviously we'll hit into the panel event lots of cool questions for these cool cats and then there will be time. Obviously we did ask you to submit questions when you got your ticket, but if you've suddenly thought of a question or there's a question that comes to mind during the event, we will have time for hopefully some audience Q and A at the end and then feel free to stick around at the end to chat, say hi, meet some cool people. Right before we get into it though, we do have some thanks. So B Corps are really cool and they always try and support each other. So Jamie from Twice got some. Did anyone try the edible cups that were out there? So Jamie got them to Qla, Qla brought them down in a bag, she got them to Kath or Kathy. It's like it's all been happening. So. So thanks to Jamie Taylor, Pass Honey Raglan Coconut Cereals, Organics Picks, Peanut Butter and the Cheers Sisters, they all provided us with some B Corp refreshments for you this morning. So shout out to them. Also a shout out. Well, I'm gonna give Kaushik the shout out anyway, even though I couldn't get his microphone to work. So for the panelists we're gonna be using this phone as a microphone because we did have a couple of B Corps in the regions who were like, hey, can you live stream the event? And it's like, eh, we'll give it a go. So yeah, we borrowed some mics from Korshek. He's a great guy, he does really cool AV stuff. But it was my error. I couldn't get his mics to work. Can do catering. I don't think there's anyone from Candu still around. They've all gone, if you don't know. Can do catering. They're really cool. They're a local social enterprise. All their staff basically have a disability, yet they're provided the opportunity for mainstream employment and they make great food. So shout out to them. And obviously shout out to KMD for giving us this amazing venue. Thank you so much. I'll just play a quick video to just sort of encapsulate some of the stuff that's been going on in the B Corp world and then, yeah, when that's done, we'll get Qlade to come up and just say a couple of words. So hopefully the audio is going to work on this one. Fingers crossed. Three, two, one.

I think for us it's about being able to evidence that we're doing better and making sure we're bringing our people along on the journey as well.

I knew from before I.

And when.

We did I felt like we had.

Secured part of our identity. So it's part of who we are.

Today we are celebrating 10 years of B Lab Australia, Aotearoa, New Zealand. Initially the movement was very much grassroots.

And after setting up b lab with.

50 bebops, that was when momentum really started to grow.

There are now more than 500B Corps in Australia and Aotearoa, New Zealand, employing more than 30,000 people and turning over.

More than $14 billion every year.

And they're part of a worldwide community of over 6,000 B Corps.

We really have an opportunity to use.

Business as a force for good right.

Now because there's so many big, big challenges that we are facing as a planet and we spend so much time at work, it just makes sense to.

Be solving those problems and B Corps are leading.

The B Corp movement is united by a vision of creating an economic system.

That is inclusive, equitable and regenerative, that.

Benefits all people and planet. As a B Corp we're going beyond by putting purpose ahead of profit. Ultimately it's about the whole system and not just the leading edge.

We're a global force now. The change is happening. B Corp offers a model for businesses to continuously improve their impact.

Sometimes you have to just begin to begin.

And the great thing about the Bee.

Impact Assessment tool is it is free of charge to dabble in and play with initially and understand what it might take to become a B Corp. You.

Know, that whole idea of when you change the way you measure what you value, behaviours change is just so true. If we can drive those values of.

B Corps to become that's just ordinary way you do business, we'll respect and.

Value those things that are living systems in a much better way.

The next step for the B Corp movement I think will be more collaboration between a much larger family of B Corp businesses, a larger understanding from people looking out for B Corp businesses and you know, maybe even starting to influence governments. As a B Corp collective.

Where we are today is in a very different place from where we were then. It was about collecting those people and now it's about pushing this movement forward so that we can have rail systems change, impact and really disrupt the way things have always been done in business.

Now that we have a collection of.

Organisations who are like minded and values.

Aligned and do business in a similar way, what can we do together that.

We can't do apart?

A new future is possible.

A place where people, planet and communities prosper.

If you haven't started yet, what are you waiting for?

Nice.

Cool cula. Round of applause please for the amazing Culo. And are you alright to speak into that as a microphone?

Sure. Thank you.

No worries.

Thanks Tim. Amazing opening and creating so much energy in the room as you always do, so very grateful for that. Yeah, it's amazing to be here at this first B Corp event, official B Corp event for, for B Corp month this year. And the city is no stranger to firsts. The very first B Corp was here in 2012. Eagle Protect who we'll be hearing a lot more from in the panel.

And as Tim said, we've now reached 100B Corps in Aotearoa, which is super exciting. But I can't help but think what it must have been like in Those early years, 10 years ago when nobody was talking about B Corp. Barely anyone knew what it was and it feels like it must have been. You must have felt like blind creatures kind of rolling around in the dark, trying to put your arms around this thing, this movement that you didn't really know what it was. And so I think that's really incredible that you guys have really pushed forward with that and built such a strong community here in Christchurch and really kind of emanated that out to the rest of Aotearoa. So thank you for being the first. And we don't often talk about firsts at B Lab we try to be a very inclusive movement but I think it's fitting to acknowledge that the hard work that it takes to be those leaders in those early years and there's a Whakatoki I just wanted to share along these lines which goes. Mamua kakite a muri mamuri kaora amua. Those who lead, give sight to those who follow. Those who follow, give life to those who lead. And the B Corp movement is really a community of leaders and it's not always easy. The process is difficult. I'm sure we'll hear a lot from the B Corps in the room about how rigorous the assessment is. And even once you become a B Corp, that's just the beginning. It's the start of a continuous improvement journey. But it's this deep connection to a sense that business should be a force for good and that we should always be thinking about the role that business plays in society to solve some of these really big, gnarly challenges ahead of us. And that's what kind of keeps everybody in the movement in the V Corp cult. And we hope that those of you that are new to it here today can find out something that you didn't know before. Come and speak to us if you've got any questions.

So I should have introduced my role. I'm the Aotearoa New Zealand Manager at B Lab, and we've got Angie at the back there, who is our director of communications visiting from Melbourne. We have about another dozen people based over in Australia who are here to support the movement, both in Australia and New Zealand. So lots of people here to help you on the journey if it's something that you're interested in. And lastly, I just wanted to say thank you so much to the Be Local Otatahi Christchurch crew for putting this all together. Our B Locals are run entirely by volunteer B Corps, so they put in the time to organise these events.

Keep people together, keep people engaged, and it's that kind of grassroots local community that really keeps the movement alive. So thank you, Tim and Kath and Kathy, and a huge thank you to Kathmandu for hosting us in this awesome space. We've been meaning to do it for a while, so it's awesome to finally be here and kind of helping put on this awesome breakfast. And congratulations again on such a great announcement this last week with Kathmandu and Ripkill and Oboz certifying. So that's all I really wanted to say and happy to pass it over back to Tim and the panel and look forward to chatting to more of you later. Thanks.

Awesome. Thank you.

All right, then. Come on, Clicker, you can do it. I even changed your batteries so that you wouldn't do this today. Cool. So we'll get into the panel then. So, panelists, we have. You were sitting in the wrong order. You could have sat in the same order as my slide. Come on, guys. I'm now really confused. Which one do I start? Okay, we'll go with Shasta. So we've got Shastra o', Laughlin, who's head of ESG at the KMD Brands. So I'm sure you're probably feeling quite tired having just certified two companies and recertified quite a big one. We've got Steve Arda. So Steve, CEO and founder of Eagle Protect. They were B Corp number one. They're so B Corp. They were a B Corp before B Corp was even in New Zealand. It makes sense. They certified in 2012 and B lab didn't get to New Zealand until 2014. So Steve had to ring America and go, hey, I'd like to be a B Corp. And they're like, who are you? What are you talking about? What's going on? But we'll unpack that. We've got James Stewart from Gimmeli Consulting, a fairly recent B Corp late last year, and Kylie Matthews from our period Care. You certified a couple of years ago. It feels like you've been a B Corp forever. It's because you're just so awesome. You've just always been like a B Corp. So. Yeah. So these are our panelists and we've got got questions already. Like, I say that you were submitting when you purchased when you got your free ticket, but if you get a question that you kind of think of, that you'd like to ask, there will be some time at the end if we haven't completely run out of time. So to get us kicked off, find my specs. So you might have noticed that the theme for B Corp month this year is we go beyond. And so I guess that's as B Corp. Some of the overarching messages, no pressure now with the director of communications in the room. Some of the overarching messages of how B Corps go beyond is, you know, beyond business as usual, beyond greenwashing, beyond just maximizing profit. It's like, how do we actually balance the purpose and profit? So that's kind of like the context. But one of the questions we did have. And then I'll pass my microphone. I'm going to use this as a microphone for the. I'm going to go to Steve first because he is the first B Corp in New Zealand. Thank you very much. What made you want to become a B Corp?

You guys might as well go home.

How long do we want? We're going back a bit in time. So that was 2012. Linda and I, who's sitting in the front row, set the company up in 2006. And a big part of it was we wanted the company to be exciting to work for, even though we may not be the most exciting product, which is disposable gloves and ppe.

So we are very proudly the world's dirtiest B corp. But we have the best opportunity to make a difference. And just really, I'm sort of going all around the place, but I tend to do that. Just to give you an idea. The US uses 328 million disposable gloves every day. 25% of those, we estimate, are never used because they rip or they're damaged. And so by using our gloves, we could save 30, 40, or 50 million gloves a day just by doing that. So in terms of the benefit we could. We could make, it's huge. Just by taking care or taking notice. Why do we become a B corp? I ran into a company in the States called Method. Does anyone know them? Method Detergent. And they were a big corp. And I liked what they did because they were also a very boring business. They sold detergents and soaps, but they did it really well. So we read their story and got in contact with them and then got in contact with B Lab and thought, well, this is a good way of us putting our money where our mouth is.

Can you hold two mics?

Oh, my God.

This is like.

Do you want me to scratch my head as well?

Thank you. Can you. Is this actually working? Oh, good. And so we went and saw them. I dropped into B Lab in San Francisco at the time and found out what to do. And over a period of. That was in 2011, I guess. And so you just keep talking. Are you going to hold it there?

Thank you. Awesome. Is that better? Look at that. And over a period of a year or so, we sort of worked out how to get certified. And I was just telling these guys one of the first experiences we have. I was talking to a lady in Nairobi at around midnight who is our B lab certification person working for the States. And some of the stuff that they were asking us was very American. And I was trying to tell her that some of these things don't actually apply to New Zealand. And I won't go into detail because I might insult somebody, but it was. But it was a pretty interesting process. But we got there in the end and you know, a company that sells a disposable glove that travels halfway around the world gets used for an hour. It's a real challenge to be a B corp, but we believed in it and we can do a lot of other good things outside that to be a better business. I better be quiet, Tim, so you can carry on with the others Passing down the line.

Yeah, both mics.

Same question. Was it?

Yeah, yeah.

Which was why didn't you.

It was a bit long.

Yeah, it was what's for lunch? So for us, it was just. It was a few things really. It was sort of a sense of accountability. We knew that we were on a journey of doing epic stuff for epic clients and helping them unlock social impact in their worlds and environmental impact in their worlds. But we're a small consulting company, so we really just were sort of a bit ignorant about what's next and how to improve. And so that was one of the core drivers for us about embarking on the B corp journey, is that it gave us a real framework for challenge and continuous improvement. And go, never thought about that. How can we recycle our batteries better? How can we do this, how can we do that? All these incremental things that we were just ignorant about. Cause we sort of had our heads down and just cracking on. So that was an amazing opportunity to shine a spotlight on where we were potentially having a negative impact or where we were not taking up an opportunity for a positive impact socially and environmentally.

Nice.

Awesome. Thank you for our. It was from day one. We knew that we wanted to be a B corp from inception, really. When we sort of plan the business and what our ethos was, it radiated that we could become a B Corp. So it was part of the journey. It took us a couple of years to get there because with any startup you're sort of chasing your tail and you're growing. And then we sort of got to the point where it was like, actually, let's now start this assessment. And going through the assessment was great as well, because like James said, it sort of opens your eyes to areas where you can improve and things you hadn't really thought about. So I believe we had it there in the beginning, which made it easier because we didn't have to unravel lots of things to start again.

And then we're able to make improvements in other areas as we went as well, and now are on that journey of continuous improvement and really chasing that as well. The goal is to improve our score and smash it for the next reassessment in a couple of years. So you can keep building on it, which is great.

Thanks.

I guess ours is a little bit different because previously I was working for RipCurl, and when Kathmandu acquired RipCurl, Kathmandu was already a B corp. So we were actually pushed straight into it. And the same with Oboz, it was something that we'd already looked at and saw as a framework to sort of guide us as well. But Being a multinational big corporation, I guess now under the KMD Brands banner. For us it was about just the employees. So to the crew to show them that we were embedded in this framework and this journey to be a better social and environmental business to all the communities, I guess that we touch and the environment that we touch as being really a brand's that are out there to sell stuff. So just doing it better.

Nice. So I'll stick with you, Shasta.

Sure.

What's been the most unexpected outcome of going through certification.

For us? Probably, I mean it was so amazing because Kathmandu had led the way for us as a group of brands, we were able to learn through their journey. So they were a certified B Corp in 2019, which is the simile that they brought us and Oboz as well. So for us we were learning through their experience and then as a group coming together and sharing different policies or different process and learning between three brands on what we could do better. Part of our certification as well was we certified our wetsuit assembly manufacturing business in Thailand. So Ripka owns and operates a wetsuit factory. And part of that accreditation, we actually got them through the B Corp certification as well. So that was a huge one. Being in manufacturing as well as the retail wholesale business and having to do two different types of assessments. And I think what that did is it just made everyone internally see, so proud that we've gone beyond to certify. Yeah. And the biggest probably thing, I mean we only announced on Tuesday, so it's very new to our internal crew. They knew we were going through the journey, but our athletes, so obviously we have really key athletes across the world, they are just so proud. So I'm not sure if anyone follows Mick Fanning on Instagram, but if you look at his or, you know, we've got Rosie Hodge and these amazing ambassadors and athletes across the world. They are just so proud to be part of this journey and be, you know, surfing for a company that is putting this embedded into our business. So that's probably the biggest surprise is their following.

I did ponder on this question because I was thinking what's unexpected that's come out of it? And probably a positive that's come out of the whole journey is being a startup and.

You just go and you're doing every part of it. But this has actually made us really step back and reflect and put some really clear policies and guidelines in place which is really going to set AOA up as it moves into its next growth phase and takes on the big export journey. We've really got all of that in place. So I think that's a really good positive outcome from it.

Awesome. For us, I think the unexpected thing was actually how much of an epic team building exercise it was really early on. At the outset we made the decision that this wasn't just something that the boss would do and go, hey team, look, we've got something to go on. What about your email signature? And the entire team, we're small, we're four or five people. So we brought our entire team along for the journey at each of the workshops, divvied up tasks, divvied up action points for each of them to go on a crack on and it was awesome to see their buy in. So it wasn't our team at Epic at working in the business, but being a small company, I do most of the work on the business and so it was awesome to open up that on the business piece to them and get their buy into it, see the accountability, see the pride that they took on that. And also just opening up a whole bunch of corporate stuff with a lowercase C for our business and just going, great, actually, this is what I earn. This is what the accounts look like. Just sharing a whole bunch of stuff that doesn't normally happen and shouldn't be something that's big and scary, should be something that you're able to share with your team and stuff like that. And so that just built team trust, built some accountability and it was just really awesome just to see the culture shift through the journey that we took.

Thank you. Well, I guess the biggest Surprise was in 2012 was when a big burly Welshman came flying through the door and said tell me about B Corps. And then basically picked up the ball and grew what we have here now since then. But I guess there's a couple of things. One is it's opened a few doors for us. The other thing is getting invited to speak on panels about gloves is pretty. But the main thing is I think the staff and, and there's a few of them here, so I hope I'm not telling lies, but the enthusiasm that the staff have both here and in the US for the B Corp signal that we have because they know how hard it is for us to get it. And Cath, who's probably disappeared somewhere now, is the one who does all the work for it and she can attest to that. It's really hard for us to be a B corp, so I guess it's a real staff engagement tool for us that we love having.

And so that leads on to actually one of the next questions, which was, how do you help? I know. What tips and tricks do you have for helping the wider organization feel the connection to being a B Corp? Now I think it's a bit of a trick question because B Corp just. It just does seem to capture the heart. Has anyone done ISO certification in a company? Was it exciting? Did he love it? Have you told all your friends and family they should do ISO?

No.

Hands up. Who's done B Corp and told everyone they know that they should be a B corp? It's like, well, why does that happen? I don't know. Angie, you need to work out. So, yeah. So what did you do to get the team on board? Because back then it was like, now people might know what a B corp is, but back then it's like, Steve, what? It's like we're confused. What's going on, man?

You might have to put me under hypnosis to remember these things because it's so far I go. But I just think people were really interested in it. We used to go to a trade show in Germany every year, we still do, and drop in on the States on the way back. And that's how we found about it. So it's telling the stories of people like Method, Ben and Jerry's, Patagonia, who are already B Corps, and those names everybody knows. So it was pretty exciting. And I think just people just got on board. It gave us a point of difference in terms of being able to tell our story. I do remember, and I've told the story a lot, that one of our big customers at the time said, steve, people just don't give a shit. And the exact words. He now doesn't believe that. But the good thing about that was I said, people do. Companies may not, but people, humans actually do give a shit about workers rights and the environment and building a good business. I'll stop. Otherwise I'll carry on.

For one night only.

I think ours is sort of similar in the sense that I guess the layer for us was that it actually was really helpful to help clarify a bunch of our strategies and our why as an organization. We were coming up five years old when we started the B Corp journey and it really. And we'd been bumbling along is a term that gets some negative press, but I think it's a great term. But, you know, we'd been ticking along, head down, doing the mahi that we really love doing. But like we said before, it gave us that chance to jump up above the Parapet, put this periscope up and go. We've actually got to really define. That's what our website said when we wrote it four or five years ago. Is that still true now? And typically with startups it's not. It might have shifted and evolved. So that was really epic for us to be able to go, great, now let's get the team to actually shape. And we had some really robust challenges, challenging conversations about how we achieve our purpose and our why. Because if we all agreed to this, we'd have to tick a box and that would open up a bunch of series of questions that we had to be able to hand on hard answer or hand on heart say that we're going to pursue and track down. So that was another awesome piece for us to sort of bring the team together and help shape the strategic direction of the company.

Thank you.

We've got pretty small team and we're a business with purpose from the beginning, so people want to come and work for us because of what our goal is and what we give back to communities. So to then be able to talk to the team about, hey, look, we're going to do the B Corp certification and actually be recognised for everything that we're doing. They got really excited about it, they really wanted to be part of it. So we have weekly meetings and just ensuring that they were all brought into that and it was keeping them up to date with where we were in the process, getting them to help along with carbon emission measurements and making them feel part of it. And when we certified, that was great. That was a huge, huge celebration that we all felt that we could be part of because everybody had had that part in the journey as well.

Yeah, I guess the engagement, ours was a bit more challenging because we've got so many employees across the world in so many different locations.

As part of the recertification. Under KMD brands, we've covered countries like Brazil, Thailand, Indonesia.

Canada, us, France. So we've got a really big network and that covers workers from office DCs and in stores, plus the manufacturing facility in Thailand. So for us, the engagement piece on employees was quite challenging because not everyone can be involved, obviously, but we did create a bit of a project team and had, you know, project planning and just sort of allocated different people to different tasks. And then we actually, because ours was. Was a little bit different with four certifications under one, so we did four bias under our one certification. We actually had this little tracker on the wall that sort of gave our points and when we were going through verification and updates. So we had, you know, we're sitting at 86 points and we're 50 verified. And it was this at the entry of the office and people would stop and start asking questions and things. And when we actually pressed the submit button, we held a celebration in the office to sort of showcase that this was a big step and we're really excited to be there. So that was kind of ours. But yeah, there was definitely challenges in that. And we still have employees that are what's a B Corp. So we've got a big job to show do as a bigger business to support our crew and empower them with knowledge as well.

Cool. You know that one?

Awesome. Yeah. I think the key, you got to bring the staff on the journey. If you do it in isolation, you're missing a massive opportunity. Like, if you think about your stakeholders, if you can get your employees on board, then get your customers on board, then get, you know, your supply chain on board, then get your investors or other concerned stakeholders on board, then you're going to pay your certification feedback like 50 times. That's my theory. Don't quote me on that number. That's just hashtag. This is not accounting or legal advice, etc. You guys do financial advice, so you've got my covered.

So there was a couple of questions about supply chain, which is possibly less relevant for James, because your supply chain's quite small. You buy some paper and some laptops, maybe you're a bit like me. However, the other three, you possibly have some supply chain stuff up coming. I think you've got a lot of supply chain.

Yeah, yeah.

So two sort of questions on supply chain. So what is the biggest pain point for B Corps in supply chain on the B Corp journey? And how do you best assess suppliers and choose the most sustainable options, particularly when there might not be an option in New Zealand for that supply.

Or even in the world for you.

Yeah, yeah, Huge question. Supply chain was obviously a huge part of our assessment. We were really lucky because we've actually done an amazing amount of work already within our supply chain. We've got Gary Shaw, who's in the audience today, who has been an advocate for modern slavery and human rights and has done some amazing work within our supply chain already. And with the acquisition, our compliance program was all filtered through one set of one team, so. So we've sort of learned through the three businesses, I guess, what works where we can have impact and the conversations we should be having across the three brands. We're really lucky because our suppliers, we've got a lot of long term suppliers. So some of the suppliers have been making our products for over 20 years. So you can have those conversations with those suppliers because they're on the journey with you. So.

It'S about having the conversation. I think the more companies that are moving with the B Corp movement will then impact our supply chain because obviously that's where your emissions are happening and that's where your impact is. If they can come to us with better materials to create our products, that's obviously going to have an impact. So we're pushing.

That'S the bigger piece of the puzzle for us but also I guess trying to figure out what, what are the right tools to actually gather that information. So what the B Corp assessment did for us is it went, we had to have an actual framework that is going to count environmental impact of these suppliers. So we started to roll out the heap portal and that was something that we'd looked at previously but now it made sense and we had the backing of the B Corp certification to actually invest in those systems and on board they support suppliers with it. So that was probably one that we. And yeah, I mean it's not the most. Some of the products we're making, you know, they are harsh. But you are looking for better improvements in chemicals and better improvements in production and that's all part of it. So I think you will prioritise sustainable, more efficient suppliers. But there is a challenge in that space because it's just not there yet. So yeah, definitely a challenge.

So we've been working with the same suppliers since we started as well. We've got manufacturers in Sri Lanka and China and at the very beginning we were fortunate enough to be able to go over and visit our factory in Sri Lanka and see the workers there and go and see some of the fabric suppliers and the bigger factories that we're feeding into our supply chain. And that was an incredible experience and being able to be face to face with your manufacturers and the people that in my role I'm dealing with weekly to produce our goods and be able to really share with them what our ethos was and what our purpose was about being really sustainable and using organic cottons and recycled nylons and them knowing that from day one. So we've really put push them on that to continue to improve and find better suppliers. Those ones who have got all of the certifications, the Ecotech and the got certified cottons and when we started the B Corp as well it was really exciting to be able to say hey look, this is what we're doing and be able to explain that to both of them. So they brought into that and we've got a traceable supply chain. So if you get on our website, you can see our whole supply chain all the way back to the fields in which the cotton is picked. And that was something that we've had since day one as well. So, yeah, just being able to bring those suppliers on board and have them buy into what we were trying to achieve has helped. But as you said, it's a journey you can always improve. We're always looking for better fabrics that are going to be better for the environment. So it's great to have those suppliers on that journey with us as well.

Do you want me to talk to our Biro supplier?

Well.

Do you see it from RFPs maybe in terms of being in the supply chain?

Absolutely, yeah. I mean, we work with. We do a lot of project finance work for social housing, community housing and help do the financial feasibility for that. And then we typically partner with a development manager and then we walk through the RFP process with them and we're talking about ways to landfill, we're talking about number of apprenticeships that are being brought up through the labour supply chain and things like that. So, yeah, we definitely like touch on that side of things. But it's epic seeing the demand side coming. It's fantastic that we're all supplying good stuff and more good stuff out there, but if we look at the other businesses that aren't in the room or aren't on that journey, it's epic seeing the demand for ESG flowing through supply chains, coming from.

Ethically minded purchases. So that's a good thing from our side too.

We have a challenge as well because most of our gear comes out of Malaysia, Thailand, delay, little bit out of China. We've moved out of China a lot for a number of reasons. As much as we could, we way back in the day, 10 or 11 years ago, we borrowed the Patagonia Code of conduct that they use for their international suppliers and we adapted it to our business and took it to our companies and translated it into Chinese, even and Mandarin, and got them to go through it. And it was a fairly informal process. We still do that when we can travel, which hasn't been easy for the last wee while. We also use independent audits, CEDX, etc. Which Cath runs for our factories and customers like Costco in the States who we supply have their own audits. So the factories get audited to death and they literally have Auditors there every day of the week pretty well. There's a real balance though, because the glove business is a dirty business. There's a lot of forced labour, slave labour. If you have the unfortunate experience to go to A and E today, you'll probably be using gloves that came out of a factory that was using forced labor that were banned for entry into the us but not New Zealand, which is something that really annoys us because New Zealand's a little bit behind in this. But that's a whole other podcast, I guess. But the other thing we've got to remember, and I remember talking to some of the workers years ago in Malaysia and these guys come from Myanmar and Indonesia, so they're often immigrant labour and they want to work every hour they can because they are sending money back to their families. So we've got to balance that with their goals alongside our Western paradigm that people should be working 40 hours a week and then go and play sport. It's a different world. So there's just that balance that we've got to remember in terms of what we're trying to enforce on people not saying they should be working 120 hours a week, but there's just that sort of balance.

Nice one. So we've got one question here which I think is going to be really easy one for you all to answer, which is how do you help convince those at the top of the food chain in your company to becoming a B corp? It's worth the effort. Well, Steve, you were the top of the food chain. James, you were the top of the food chain. Kylie, you were the top of the food chain. Shasta, you joined a company that was already a B corp. So do any of you have anything on that? Have you? Like I say, maybe. I think most of the B corps in New Zealand that I know of, it's been the boss that's kind of gone. We're doing this and I'm gonna bring you on the journey. Any of you got any comments on that as a topic or is it?

Yeah, so I've got some mates who are not as socially minded. I could chuck some other adjectives in there, but I won't. Lovely people, but are on a journey and so they're just going to. What a waste of time. It's all fluffy, liberal, woke stuff and just going, it's just nonsense. What a waste of money. I go, cool. I've been working on you for six months on trying to show you why it's not that stuff. And it's actually our Responsibility to steward and to look after things. But if I'm not going to win that argument now, we'll just park that one for the side and say that you are going to attract way better staff, you are going to make way more money. You are going to be able to buy a new Maserati next year instead of the year after because you can attract better staff and look after your team. You're going to retain more staff because you're going to have a far better work environment and things like that. So I'm being facetious, but you know, it's a good investment. It's the right thing to do. And so first and foremost, impact first, it is the right thing to do to go down this B Corp journey and look after your environmental and social outcomes. But being frank, we're all here to run a business and it actually increases staff retention. It helps you attract the best and brightest people that want to work for A or a full purpose company and that impacts on the bottom line. And there's great data out there that show that B Corps and companies that take their ESG responsibilities seriously are more profitable. And that's epic because if we can scale and do more good and put more money into our purpose and things like that, then that is something to be celebrated as opposed to go liberalism versus capitalism. They can both coexist in a social enterprise environment. So that's probably my, I know. Crazy.

Yeah, yeah.

And Steve can hold the phone for me. Yeah, I'll just add my two cents onto that. There's a couple of things. So typically what, what I would advise is if you, if you are what I call the concerned citizen in an organization who's like I think we should be a B Corp, what you need to do is go and take your CEO for a coffee or a beer or lunch and just ask, ask him or her what's keeping you awake at night. And they will have three things embedded in their skull that is stopping them going to sleep at 3am in the morning. And it will be, we're struggling to get good stuff, we're losing stuff. Our profitability's down. There will be a pressure that B Corp certification will help relieve. And there's pretty much, I'm yet to see any data that would say that B Corp wouldn't help solve one of those problems. So long as you do it authentically, you nail it. But on the second one, I was talking to Q, Angie and Kath at dinner last night. So we were talking to a company recently and the CEO is a mid-60s white guy from Melbourne, I think he was, or Sydney. And he opened a meeting with this, right? Yeah. Tim, look, I'm a pretty old white guy. I like money, I like playing golf, I like hanging out with other white guys who like playing golf. I am conservative with a big C and a little C. I don't believe in any of this shit, but I recognise I have to for my business to be relevant. So what have you got?

Like you're going to come around to doing this stuff one way or the other, so get on with that. So, next question, which leads on nicely from Jamie's little chat, is, has it been worth it to be BCom certified? Maybe not. Ask Steve first because you'll probably go. Yeah, for the first eight years it was a bit shabby.

That's right, that was. You got my hand around the wrong way.

Sorry.

I mean, of course it's been worth it just to connect with people like yourselves and around the world and it gets you in places. Our first office in Oakland in the States was from another B corp who gave us a space deep in his big office or office products office. And so you just get in there. I mean, it doesn't mean you get the business. You still have to be good at what you do and that's the way it should be, but it's been worth it. But I echo what Jamie said as well. It's like we're in business for profit and we don't pretend otherwise. We're not a social enterprise. We certainly have a lot of social goals and all these sort of things, but we've got to be a good business and a robust business to do the good that we want to do. We're not going to be good in the bankruptcy court. We're going to be a strong business and that helps us be a strong business. So it's a no brainer for us in terms of. Of the benefits for the business and outside the business as well.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, from a staffing perspective, attracting better people, from building a better team culture to clarifying where we want to go and how we're going to get there and what the incremental next steps are and keeping us accountable on that space there, it's been a fantastic journey. It's not an easy journey. It's definitely a lot of mahi in that space there. So, yeah, definitely. Get a good consultant to help you along the journey would be my, my advice. That's what you want me to say?

I mean, 100%, it's definitely been worth the journey. And to be here, just to echo what others have said, to come and have a network like this, to be able to collaborate with other B Corp businesses, find out what they're doing. So you're always on that journey of improvement and to be able to set up a really clear framework for moving into the future with the business. I think a good example was us. When we launched, we said we would donate 5% of all underwear created to help eradicate period poverty in New Zealand. And that's what we hit. That's what we were doing until we started on the B Corp journey. And because we were sort of struggling a little bit, like, how do we account? What is 5%? Is it 5% of what's been made and is that once it's just left the factory and coming to us, or how do we really account for this? And then going on the B Corp journey, we switched that and it became we're donating 2% of our annual revenue by way of product donations. So suddenly we had a really accountable way of measuring it and now we can actually share really, really accurate numbers. So today, just to put it out there, we have donated over 27,000 pairs of period underwear to people around New Zealand.

Is it maybe too soon to ask you how good it was going through the assessment?

In other words, are you still on.

The high of getting the results?

I'm on the high, but I've definitely got some feedback for the B Lab team about the assessment process. And the biggest thing for me was we just need the questions numbered. I think I.

I did a.

I was on one of these. So in Torquay, where I'm based in the head office of Rip Curl, they've got a great community group that are doing exactly the same as what you guys have here. And same thing. It was one bit of advice for B Lab. It's like we need numbers on those questions because the amount of times you're scrolling up and down trying to find the question that is relevant, I mean, yeah, definitely, it makes sense, right? For us, we're a group of brands that enjoy the outdoors from surfing, hiking, camping. So B Corp is the certification that actually instills all of that for us, gives us a framework, gives us power to go to the higher people in the business and say, we actually need to do this or we would be at risk of losing this certification. And I think once you're committed to it, you're on the journey and you're just going to have to go, keep going. So I think for Us, it's probably about getting other bigger companies on board because I think there was some learnings through the assessment that it is focused for smaller companies. The assessment process and I think the whole majority and 50% and 80% and all that caught us up a bit. We've got some great programs in place, but if they didn't hit 50% of our product range or it wasn't above the majority for our workers, having workers across so many different countries, in so many different sort of government and different pay rates and all of these sorts of things, it made us realise how diverse and the challenges that we've got as a company. So, yeah, definitely an amazing framework for such a big company with lots of challenges across so many areas. Yeah.

Beat my mic holder again. Yeah. When you guys certified, did you meet Tim Loftus? He was the brand manager at Kathmandu, I think was Francis here?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He was like the guy driving. And when he sort of rang, he said, we've done it. I'm like, holy shit. We've got like a huge company. That's a Beecroft. This is because before that it's like Eagle. You know, no offense, but, you know, or me or you know, a small company somewhere in New Zealand. People like, be quiet. Who are these people in the 70s, like, oh, oh, my God, this Kathmandu. Like, okay, this thing is legit. So, yeah, don't underestimate the power of what you're doing. And then obviously there's Kiwi bank. Now there's Cold bank, there's Sinlay. Like, I mean, yeah, people often say, oh, it's for big companies, it's for small companies. It's hard for small companies as well. Cause if it's just you in the company, it's like you get to Friday and you go, yeah, I could look at that assessment. Or I could go for a beer. I'm going for a beer. And it's hard to maybe get documentation and stuff when you're a small, but when you're a big company, you've got to try and track down the head of some department in Indonesia who you've never met. Yeah. So it's not easy. But if it was easy, they'd all be doing it, which is why it's good. So back to you then. We'll start by Descent. What have you found hard in terms of balancing trying to do the right thing and trying to do the profitable thing? Because there's always going to be a trade off. And how do you kind of handle that?

I guess, for us? Because the way the brands have been built, even though we're out there to sell product, we're still out there to inspire people to get to the outdoors. So as soon as you link the philosophy of what we're doing back to the nature of what we're trying to do as a brand and get people to live a more active lifestyle and enjoy the ocean, enjoy the mountains, then you can, you know, you can tie it all back and give purpose to the whole thing. So, yeah.

We've just built it in from the very beginning that we are going to be donating a certain amount of our underwear to help eradicate period poverty and knew that our supply chain, that we were going to be using organic cottons and recycled nylons. And so we knew that that was going to come at that higher price point. So probably one of the biggest challenges for us over the last few years is when we launched, we were about the fourth or fifth period underwear brand in the world and the first in New Zealand, and now there's thousands. And that's a good thing because it means that people are moving away from single use pads and tampons, which is the ultimate goal. But there's also now a race to the bottom. It's in supermarkets, it's in the warehouse, it's in Kmart. There's underwear that's now coming back testing positive for pfas, which is a nasty chemical that can really be toxic to people. And so we have all of our underwear and fabrics tested for fluorine, which is if you've got detect fluorine, you're going to have PFAs. And so we can share all of those results and have that accountability. But it's definitely proving challenging when there is underwear selling for less than half the price and probably for less than what we can produce it for. And so it comes around to sticking true to what we set out to be, which is a brand with purpose to be able to give back to our communities, to stick true to being sustainable and having that whole supply chain knowing that everybody along our supply chain is looked after. And, you know, it was working for us because we've got a beautiful story to tell that highlights all of those things and we've got our loyal customers and we just continue to grow that base because there are always going to be people who are in a position to want to be able to buy from businesses with purpose. There will always be people who are price driven. And that is just the nature of the world. And that's okay. I guess the bigger picture is that we're all moving towards a reusable period product so we can part of that journey and support that.

Awesome. I guess for us it was that inherent tension with how we achieve our purpose. So from the get go, when we set up the company five years ago, our purpose was to destroy poverty. And we just knew that that was just our non negotiable purpose. And so we do financial feasibility work, we do business case work, we run strategy workshops for clients and we give away 100% of our profits to kids can to help feed kids at Haara Community Campus and to Habitat for Humanity to build homes in Nepal. And it was phenomenal to have this great rigorous, respectful debate around our team at the B Corp table about what's the best way to get more kids fed and to build more homes in Nepal to destroy more poverty. Because over the last five years we'd, we carved out this niche in the consulting space for helping not for profits and the for purpose sector. So we were having our impact indirectly because these guys were doing the hard mahi on the front and we were helping them make great decisions around the investments they were looking to make with social housing and things like that. And on one hand we had this inherent tension because we could just go and try and you know, work for 4.4 profit businesses and those that aren't aligned with destroying poverty, double our charge out rates and give away three times as much to our amazing partner charities. Or we could stay in our lane and do what we really felt passionate about was working with epic community organizations and then donating the profits out to that. So that was the inherent tension that we had around because we had to put it on paper. You know, how do we, you know, what's our bia? How do we actually achieve our purpose? And so we eventually settled on having that split purpose of solely focusing on impact based entities that we would partner with. So we're saying no to purely for profit entities and then but maybe sacrificing a bit of ability to make more profit to give away. So really, really stoked to go on that journey with the team because it wasn't just me waking up and going hey, went for a walk on the beach on the weekend and this is what we're doing. We actually workshopped it and we wrestled and we waxed and waned and went back and forth. And the B Corp process definitely helped uncover that tension that was there after five years and then resolve it, which is awesome.

Welcome to our world, Kylie. In terms of cheap product, we've always Faced the battle of having incredibly cheap products, product out of China in particular, that we're battling against. And we're trying to do more. So that's the challenge. And so I guess the risk is we don't do more because we've succumbed to that slippery slope down to the bottom. The marketing team have put in a really cool QR code system from a New Zealand company called RFIDO that traces our gloves right back to origin and has all sorts of things that adds value to the customer. It's trying to explain that. I can tell you now that if you go to your dentist or doctor, that 50% of the gloves that they buy have got fecal matter on them and they also have salmonella, listeria, you name your poison, staph, strep, everything like that. Because there's no testing system and no checks on arrival into the country. So we do that for our customers. So there's all those sort of things that we don't need to do and are tempted not to do sometimes because they add to cost. It's not tempted for very long, but to do it's part of what we offer is offering people a better product that they'll use a lot less of over time.

You guys are still the only B Corp PPE company.

Yeah.

Which. That's shocking, isn't it? Like after however many decades of a pandemic. There's only one PPE company that's a B Corp.

I spoke to one in New York, lasts a couple of weeks ago who's considering it because he's been looking at what we do. He's very similar minded to us, socially responsible company. But he said it's so much work, he doesn't know how he's going to do it. But. So there may be two eventually. Glove space.

We're almost out of time. Are there any questions from the audience before? I've got a couple more that I can chuck in before we run out of time. Or are you all in a stunned existential silence of these quarters? It happens. I know what it's like. No questions. Cool.

Go for it.

Strange to you?

Let me just grab it.

I don't need that because we're recording it for people.

So with your supply chain dilemmas and getting your suppliers on board on the journey, what was the biggest resistance that.

You had to that to anyone in particular? Possibly Shasta.

Anybody at work?

Yeah.

Justin, Steve, Carly.

I guess the realities cost.

You know, better. Materials cost more, but if you're invested in it, you'll pay more. The company will pay more. You know, looking at waste from supply chain, you know, what are they doing with the waste produced through creating our products and having that conversation?

I think it's a challenge in any, in any industry because if the factory manager or the owner of that business is not invested in environmental doing things better, you're always going to be faced with resistance. But I think it's up to us as a brand or the customer of that industry to be pushing those suppliers further. I mean, there has been a lot of government intervention to create better industries in the overseas manufacturing, but we can't just rely on, on the government to do it. So we have to be asking those questions. I think as soon as you start putting it into the conversation, then the next time you go and visit that supplier, they've got a presentation for you that has a slide on what they're doing in their community for the local people. And that probably wouldn't have happened unless the customers that are going to those factories are asking those questions and putting a little bit of pressure on. So it's just the conversation starter really.

Anyone else? Yep.

For us, what we would ultimately like to do is be able to measure our emissions further back than just our cut make sew manufacturer. We'd really like to be able to see.

The emissions that are coming from the ginning and the spinning and the dyeing mills that are ours emissions. But that's probably proving to be really challenging because we are a very small business in the scheme of what's coming out of those factories and to actually be able to dial back and get them to be able to put a number of how many hours or what machines were used and be able to get that. So that's the ultimate goal, is to be able to measure and then offset all of our emissions all the way back to the cotton fields, really from the picking of it, the transport tool of all of their different factories along the way until it gets to us. At the moment we're only really measuring from our Sri Lanka manufacturer because they solely make for us. We can measure the emissions that are coming out of there and be able to offset that. But really we can only really effectively measure the emissions from when it leaves. So the completed product, leaving our two manufacturers and all of the freight and all the way through all of our business operations in New Zealand until it gets to the customer store we can measure. But the ultimate goal is all the way back.

Let's pass quick.

I guess that our suppliers tend to see us as a breath of fresh air because we're not going in and saying, what's the price? It's all these other things. And they see us having a point of difference generally. I mean, it's. We still have to be competitive and all that sort of thing. And they know what we're doing with our testing. We keep them in the loop on that and our QR code supply chain, so they know we're serious about it. So I think that's the main thing. You know, it's sort of we're giving them enthusiasm for our cause by just seeing what we're doing, as opposed to a lot of their customers that just want a cheap glove.

Has anyone walked away from a supply.

That won't buy in?

We've used our. I'll pass on, but we've used our supplies for over a decade now and so most of them, and, well, all of them, actually, and longer, so we've never had to push them away. I've been to some factories which, if I had more time, I'd make you sick. And so we've had the opportunity to use factories that we've walked away from because they're just so bad.

No, we haven't walked away from any of our suppliers. We were using the same suppliers from when we started and we did that homework on them before we chose to work with them. We had the BSCI audit that we'd received about them and we've got a supplier code of conduct which we put together as part of the B Corp. And both our suppliers have really brought into it. They're really passionate about what we do as well, which is great. So we'll just continue to build those relationships with them.

Yeah, we definitely have, yeah. They're not on the same journey as us and not invested in this space. It's definitely the sourcing team's responsibility to find someone better. And, you know, that is a hard conversation because there's people out there that believe you shouldn't walk away from factories. If you say, see something being done not the right way, you should invest and build them up. But I guess if you don't have that investment from the owners or the management, you know, you're always going to be fighting against it. So finding the partners that are on the same journey as you is definitely a major part. I think accreditation and things like that is definitely coming in. So supply chain. I mean, there's so many different certifications from your mills, your farming and traceability. That's like a whole other area that is becoming very, very important to us. We've Always sort of tracked and traced and had nominated mills for fabrics because of the technical features of what we make. But then trying to push them in lowering their emissions and things is a really big challenge. We've started using the HIG portal, so part of the B Corp assessment, you know, it's how are you tracking your waste, your water, your energy usage and your chemicals within the supply chain. So using the HIG module, which is a self guided program that factories actually do themselves. And what we've found is if you're not sending in a company to just do the assessment for them and they actually have to do it themselves, it's almost like going through a little bit of a mini B Corp assessment as a factory and putting all of their environmental impact into a system that then they can share and can get it verified through auditors. Then it allows for, if we're using the same factory, that supplier can share the same information with both of us. And they're investing because they, they pay for it and they share that knowledge. So that's kind of the strategy that we're working on now and trying to get our full supply chain on board with that, with that program and doing it for environmental awareness as well as the social awareness. Because as Steve said, these factories are really, they've got auditors coming through every second week and there's a lot of audit fatigue and getting the same information. And if you're not getting that information and actually empowering and doing improvements, then what's the point of having them? It's just really risk mitigation. So really trying to use the information that comes to us, assess it and then build that partnership that you're on the journey together is a huge, huge part of it.

Thank you. Microphone. So, last question. Just finish up. So we're celebrating sort of 10 years of the movement. Some of you newer to the movement, some of you clearly not newer to the movement, looking forward to the next 10 years. So in 10 years time, what does the B Corp movement look like for you?

I don't know. I'll still be enjoying it, I hope. I think.

Yeah, exactly.

Oh, hopefully we'll have some other brands and we'll be driving, you know, going beyond for those companies too. So I think for me it's probably really about the connection with B Lab and obviously being kind of newer to the movement and the community. Just really trying to get the B Corp message across because I think we've even put it on our EFTPOS machines. You answer a question. Do you know what A B Corp is in our Australian business at the moment. The stats are showing pretty low. So I think there's a big part that B Lab and B Corp need to play in getting the name and.

Getting the robustness of this certification out there to prove to customers that it is better to be buying a product that is B Corp certified. And I really think the new draft principles, I'm not sure how many people have reviewed the draft principles but you know that is really going to push us with our admissions and having science based targets and reduction of our emission program and looking at wages. So for us being a multinational business, we would need to look at fair wages across our whole employer like all our employees. And that's going to be a huge project. So I think if the certification continues to push us to then it's going to push us in the right directions and the B Corp journey is going to hold as strong as it is today. So yeah.

I think in 10 years time it would just be great to see so many more B Corps but without B Corp compromising because it does have such a high threshold for certification and for that to be maintained and even raise the bar on that so that it does really challenge business businesses who do want to become B Corp certified and those who want to recertify to keep pushing it out and to continually improve. And I think it would be great just to see this community bigger as well, like to triple, quadruple this size and to have a lot more B Corps being able to share that messaging and to be able to help others on the journey because it is really a collaborative approach. It's not a, oh I'm a B Corp and you're not like it's like let's bring everybody on this because it is a big about people and planet and we're all doing this for a better good. So.

Yeah.

Yeah, I agree. I think just making it mainstream, right? You know, without selling out, but just making it. It's not just some little niche thing. It's some, you know, you can imagine in 10 years time, you know, a young grad jumps on seek and says I want to look for a job in this region in this classification and there's a button that says yep and I want to work for a B Corp and so forth. Everyone that's not a B Corp just make it something that's known and that people are filtering both purchases and using their employment buyers. So bring it on. Thank you.

Yeah, I think all those things and it's just becomes the norm. It's the standard for a good business that people use. And I think B Lab will have to work hard to keep it open to the whole community from whatever spectrum they come from because we need the 62 year old, middle aged, whatever white guys and everyone else to be on board and see the benefits for whatever reason. So yeah, and I think it's just, it's a growing fast community and I guess if it's EXPOGENOUS There'll be 800 people at this event in 10 years time. Is that the story?

Good maths. I don't do numbers.

Awesome. I will relieve you of all your mic holding duties. Thank you. He did a great job. Thank you. Yeah. So hopefully maybe in 10 years time instead of it being we go beyond it'll be go. We're just business as usual. It's quite boring. Like why are we meeting up to talk about B Corp? Cause we're all doing it. I mean that's the plan, eh? So massive round of applause please for our panelists. They were awesome.

Come on, you had your chance. Thank you. Heather.

Come on. So yeah, thanks again to our food sponsors. I didn't see was that is there food left? If there is, get amongst it. Take some. If not, people at Kathmandu are going to get a nice early morning tea bonus. And I'm sure they get enough good stuff.

Oh come on. I even change your batteries. Thanks to Kaulshik for the microphone that I couldn't get to work but he's a legend anyway. Thanks Kandu. And of course thanks to KMD for being an awesome B corp and for hosting us here. If you want to connect with BE Local. So when you got your ticket today, I think you were asked if you wanted to be signed up to our newsletter from B Local. If you've changed your mind and you didn't click yes to that and you're like actually these guys aren't that bad. I might want to come hang out with you. You can go to this link or just get hold of me. Kath or Kathy will be around afterwards. We'll put you on the mailing list. We do semi regular catch ups. We haven't got the next one planned cause this one just drained us so much. I think we were just kind of like let's just get this one out of the way. So the next one's probably gonna be just meeting at a pub and having a beer. Cause that's easy for us to organize. But yeah, if you want to come be a part of BE Local. Yeah, come and join the mailing list. Come and hang out with us. But other than that, you've been awesome. We've all been amazing. Thank you so much. Stick around if you want. We're still good in here, aren't we? For quite a while. So if you want to stick around if work sounds really boring now compared to being a B corp, I don't blame you. So, yeah, come and hang out. But thank you all so much for being here. We'll see you next time.