#16 Thriving in Business

Foreign.

And welcome to Purpose Fuel Performance with me, your host, Tim Jones, the grow good guy.

So in this episode, I talked to a good friend of mine, Joey Chandler, another, I guess, colleague who I've connected with through the Global Purpose Leaders Network. A little bit similar to Zach in that regard. And Joey's a really cool character. He's kind of come to purpose a bit later in life like myself. And he's got some really cool and interesting ways in terms of how he helps people navigate that specific journey of going in pursuit of purpose so that you can tap into that purpose for your performance. And so we kind of explore some of the methodologies about how people do connect to purpose and some questions you can ask yourself, as well as thinking a little bit or talking a little bit about my background and how I ended up finding purpose myself. So it's short and sweet, but it's punchy. So, yeah, sit back, relax, get amongst it, let us know what you think about it.

Hello and welcome back to the what's yous Purpose? Podcast. This is Joey Chandler, and I talk to great people doing great things about their purpose. Today I am fortunate to be joined by a fellow Purpose coach, a man from around the world, literally, literally around the world today. Tim Jones. Thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate you taking the time to talk with us.

No worries, man. And thank you for. Well, thank you for doing this podcast. Thanks for having me on.

Thank you. So could you just tell us a little bit about where, you know, where are you? Because you sound a little bit different than I do, obviously. And how are things with you and your loved ones regarding the pandemic?

Totally. Yeah. So I have a really messed up accent. Half your listeners will probably be thinking I come from the uk, which I do originally. And the other half will be thinking I live in Australia, which is close. I live in New Zealand. So I'm Tim. I'm based in a little place, literally in this. In New Zealand, we've got two islands, a North island and a South Island. I'm in the South Island. I live in a town called Christchurch, or in Mori, it's called Otatahi. And in New Zealand, or Aotearoa as it's called in Mori, we have two languages in New Zealand. So, yeah, originally from the UK, been in New Zealand for 16 years. I think I keep forgetting it's longer than I think. I think we're doing okay. Like nationally we're doing pretty well. We've been in a four week, five week lockdown, like full lockdown. And we seem to be getting ahead of it right now. It's been interesting like I'm now a primary school teacher. That's interesting for both me and my daughter.

Not sure who's finding that more frustrating during the day at some points. But look, in general, I mean I've been working from home for the last 15 years so it's kind of like not much has changed but I think for me it's trying to keep the pressures of keeping my business alive whilst also trying to be a primary school teacher and a parent. But in general I think we're doing pretty good.

Yeah, I think a lot of people are in that spot at this point. Now it's been three, four, five weeks. We're all kind of sort of developed a bit of a routine. The routine generally sort of works throughout the day.

You go from being a school teacher to a co worker with my wife to a parent to a spouse and all these different things. It's definitely interesting and I think it's.

Tough for the kids because I mean, yes.

I lost it a little bit yesterday, I'll be perfectly honest because I've been parenting, teaching during the day and then trying to work in the evenings and so for the last few evenings I've been working till I 1am and then getting up and I'm sleeping. Some nights my daughter's decided she wants to build a fort in her room so she's sleeping on an airbed in her room on the floor and she wants me to come and hang out in her fort. So I've had awful sleep and then yesterday I just lost it. I was like, you know, would you talk to your teacher like that? No you wouldn't. And I just kind of lost it and I was like, oh, okay, yeah, for like a really bad dad.

I wish I could say I've only heard of that before.

I think there's a lot, I think, no joke, there's actually been a unfortunate spike but probably an understandable spike in abuse and all sorts of different things. I think that's one thing. I think you and I, we both work at home, we have, our businesses are working. There's a lot of things that we're able to do where this hasn't changed our lives that much. For some people it's quite serious.

Uh huh, totally. I mean New Zealand, we're a funny little country.

I say we're well balanced because we have chips on both shoulders.

So like in the rugby we always have, we have to beat Australia because Australia's, I guess it's like you and Canada, Like Canada always wants to beat America because you're like the big ugly older brother. But we're very much the same with Australia. Like, we have to beat Australia. And that's why, you know, our rugby team is the world's best, because it's like we want to be known for stuff. But unfortunately we have this dark side to New Zealand where like domestic abuse, domestic violence, anyway, without a lockdown, we have some of the highest rates globally. And so yeah, it's really, it's sad, but that's definitely gonna be one of the after effects. And you just wonder how many other people who have been close to the edge financially who've, you know, just been riding it, you know. And I think this with the purpose lens on, which is with a human lens on crisis, brings out the best and the worst of humanity. And if that worst bit of you has just been hidden beneath the surface, times like this is gonna let that come out. And it's. And it's hard because people in lockdown, it's hard for neighbors or other support people to know that maybe that's the case. Yeah. So I don't have any easy answers for that one.

No, definitely not.

Not bring it back to a little more of an enjoyable conversation, hopefully.

Uh huh.

Is and I have to say it's so interesting in conversations I find that there's a pattern of these days where it's like you start off like da da da da da, then it's da da da da da da da. And it's. So the only way that I found actually bring it back up is to acknowledge that pattern and to bring it back up so I share that with anybody. If you had that same experience, this is the what's your purpose Podcast. So if you would, could you share what your purpose is and just tell a little bit about yourself and your background.

Totally. So maybe I'll give you my background and then explain how I got there. So I spent the majority of my previous life, I guess pre purpose, working as a medical device sales representative. So my job was to go into, well, you guys in the, in North America call it the or the operating room. In this side of the world, we call it the operating theater. So the or the ot, my job is to go in and support surgical teams to ensure that they got the best outcome for the patient during that surgery on that day. So the surgeon is clearly the highly trained professional in terms of how to do the surgery and all the anatomy and leading the or. But when it comes to putting in the little widget, the little product that's going to fix the human. Then technically, the guy or the girl, like me is more of an expert than the surgeon. So they'll be sort of saying, hey, I can't quite fit this in, you know, what should I do? And you go, well, have you tried this? Maybe use this tool, give it a push here. So that was my job and I loved it. And it was really, it was great. It was really well paid. The real sense of meaning in terms of, like, you know, I know that every day I'm going into this hospital, I'm helping people be better. You know, they're coming in with a bad back or they've literally been in a car accident and they've smashed their spine up. I'm going to help, you know, the surgeon make sure that they get the best outcome. But over the time during that career, there was those three main things that I noticed. One was.

Companies frequently launching products before they were actually fit for human use. And the best way to sum that up is there's a really great movie on Netflix called the Bleeding Edge, which basically summarizes how that whole medical device world, and I kind of, I guess in the States you've had the opioids crisis and the pharmaceutical industry kind of had a bit of a spotlight on them. But actually this medical device world that is all about, it's bigger and it's more nefarious, but it's less well known. So it's kind of really interesting world. So that was the first thing that kind of popped up and I saw stuff going on there. But when you're in that bubble of, in the industry, they, you know, they, there's nothing to see here. You know, you can't push it, you know, you can't push the boundaries of medicine without, you know, taking some risks. And, you know, when you're being well paid and well looked after by those organizations, you go, yeah, sure. And then about two years after that, every single major device company was subpoenaed by the U.S. department of justice because a whistleblower in one of the companies, she'd basically been treated really badly as an employee. And so she just obviously thought stuff you, I'll take you down with me as I'm leaving. She was one of the travel booking clerks for a major company and she had all the evidence that this company had been basically paying backhanders to surgeons to use their products. So as well as just straight financial transactions, there was also things like, sure, we'll take Your wife and kids away to this conference facility and yet they can stay there for three weeks and all the rest of it. So she, she handed that over to the doj and then that just led to an industry wide investigation and they were all basically found guilty and they all got to pay a relatively small fine, you know, compared to the income that they would have generated from that behavior. And so again, you know, you kind of in that bubble and all the corporate leaders, well, you know, we're all doing it, so it's a level playing field. There's nothing to see here. It's just kind of a marketing budget, you know, don't worry about it. And then a couple years after that, there was a situation here in New Zealand where a group of surgeons were investigated for tax evasion, where basically what they were doing was hiring members of their family to be key.

Workers in their private business so that the wife could have half his salary, his son would have quarter of his salary, so that they would avoid paying the full amount of tax that they should be paying on their fairly large incomes. And then it was maybe about a year after I discovered that and some other little bits of doings that were happening in New Zealand that we had a massive sequence of earthquakes here in Christchurch, New Zealand. So 2010, 2011, massive, massive series of earthquakes. Like the city was basically Destroyed in early 2011, the whole Central city. And during that process, and then later in 2012, when my daughter was born, I basically experienced what's called a subconscious awakening. So.

For whatever reason, I guess it's like a near death experience followed by a birth of a child can lead to this awakening. And so I literally was just like, what am I doing? I'm working for these companies that theoretically should be just about fixing people, but actually all they care about is making as much money as possible and they will kill people to do that. And I was like, that's not me. How have I ended up here? And so that was the beginning of my, I guess, quest to understand, well, why are we all living in this world where we're chasing money at the expense of people and the planet and how have I ended up there? So that was really the beginning of me trying to work out, well, yeah, why are so many people just accepting that? And how would I accept that for so long? So that led me to go and start researching like, well, am I, am I normal or now I, am I now abnormal? Like, do other people think and feel this way? And it was through that process, and I guess it's still ongoing that I've discovered, you know, groups like GPL and what have you. But yeah, really I kind of just pulled all these different thoughts together and tried to build out the journey as to how I'd ended up being this other version of me who seemingly wasn't the real me. So yeah, that's led me to completely transform myself. That's where, you know, I'm now the grow good guy. I'm now like, you know, how do we avoid corporations from doing that? How do I help other men in particular get out of working in corporate situations where they know that they're complicit in some activity that they really wouldn't? You know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't go down and stab someone in the street, but I'm working for a company that's basically killing people. So where's the difference, you know. And there's plenty of other people, I think trapped in businesses and organizations that feel like that. So that's kind of led me to be where I am today. And so really at the highest level, my purpose is to co create a world where every human gets to thrive in a manner that's regenerative to this planet. That's like, that's my end state goal. And I think we have that ability to get there. Like we have the technology, we have the smarts, we have the ability to create this planet where no human has to go without. And we can do that in a way that actually makes this planet better in 50 years time than when it is today.

Awesome. Take it all in there. Just a couple things you mentioned. Gpl, that's, and for the listeners, that's the Global Purpose Leaders. It's a group that Tim and I are part of. It's a collection of purpose leaders from around the world who talk about purpose. And.

I love the idea of people thriving.

And I think what this pandemic is showing us is that you just can't thrive yourself. You have to really work on and helping create systems and structures that allow other people to thrive, that allow other people to move forward. Because if you don't, your ability to thrive is, you know, is either limited greatly or just non existent totally.

And I think that that's kind of a big part of where, you know, the system that we're, that we're currently living as in the broader financial, economic, just as the way that we operate in the world. I mean I grew up in the 80s in the UK and at that time I guess it's like the Reagan Thatcher era and Margaret Thatcher in the uk, like, one of her most famous sayings is there is no such thing as society. So that the whole 80s and 90s, it's all been about nights, all about you as the individual. Like you do you be the best version of you, but with a slightly selfish tinge to it. It's kind of like, be the best you that you can be. And it's like, yeah, that's cool. And for me, that's a big part of purpose. Like, keep growing, keep finding out how good you can be. But the analogy I use is it's like saying, well, I'm a cigarette salesperson or I run a cigarette company. I get a deep sense of purpose from selling cigarettes. And you could kind of go, okay, how do you do that? Well, smoking cigarettes reduces anxiety and it helps people lose weight. So I know that I'm helping people do good and I'm doing good out of that as well. But you kind of go, yeah, sure, but there's also heart disease and cancer and you're not accounting for that. And for me, that's, that's the sweet spot of purpose is like, how can I do me, be the best version of me? But by doing that, it can't be at the expense of those people around me or, you know, more broadly society, my community, or more broadly the planet. Because if it is, then like you say it, ultimately it's going to come back and smack you on the butt.

Yeah, I think that's one of the real powers of purpose, is that it forces you to look at yourself, forces you to look at other people. Because in my eyes, you can't experience your purpose by yourself. It's always about helping yourself and then helping other people. Helping other people and then helping yourself.

It's like a, literally a virtue.

Yeah, it goes. And what do you do in the sense of thriving? This, this, what do you, what do you do on a day to day basis to help you experience more of the idea of thriving and creating a world that works for everyone. That's not exactly what you said, but that's. Those are my words.

Yeah, yeah. Excuse me. I mean, the main way I express that is by doing the work that I'm doing. So, you know, whether it's been on a podcast like this, you know, if between you and I, we can affect five people who listen to this podcast and go, man, okay, yeah, I'm kind of stuck in that job that I don't really like and it's not really that good for me and it is killing the Planet I might go and think about that. Like if that's me living my purpose.

You know, doing the, doing the coaching, doing the workshops, like, you know, that is when I come alive is like when I'm running coaching, when I'm doing workshops, that, that is me living my purpose. Like that is me in the zone doing my thing. So I guess it's doing as much of that work as I can is how I fulfill my purpose. But I guess other than that, you know, support structures around that definitely, you know, moving every day. So I love taking my dog. I mean, at the minute everyone's got that meme, haven't they? The dog so hiding in the cupboard. And I don't want to go for another walk. My dog, he gets walked pretty regularly anyway, you know, going for walks, listening to content, just thinking about stuff. That's the big support thing for me. Daily meditation, that's another big pillar for me, particularly breathing work, just trying to keep me centered. But yeah, for me it's just about trying to stay true to my purpose and live that and breathe every day. That kind of, you know, I kind of, I often refer to purpose as this self sourcing chocolate cake of goodness because once it starts going, it's just like there's just more and more chocolate and it's just, it just tastes great.

Absolutely. Now it's one thing to know your purpose and know that you have the systems in place and it's a whole other thing to actually make use of it on a day to day basis. And I'm curious if you could share some times maybe where you found yourself not following your purpose or maybe getting stuck in terms of doing what you know to do, but you know, you're not doing it. And just what you do to get past that.

Totally. And that's a great question.

So I guess there's two parts to that. I think the first part is, and I think this is one of the challenges because I don't know if you're going to be talking to Zach Materio at all or if you've come across Zach.

I know Zach, we haven't talked yet. He's on a. Hopefully it'll come on at some point.

Yes. One part of Zach's work that I love and he's been very vociferous or I don't want the word for writing. He's written a few articles about this.

I think it's prolific is the word prolific.

There we go. It's been one word, it's been one thing, it's one thing to know your purpose, but the key is to actually behave your purpose, actual purpose. And I think I'm pretty good at doing that. And a big part of that, a big part of the work that I'm about is.

If you're not being purposeful, it's because you're not the person who is going to be purposeful. So to be that person, you have to kill off the old bits of you that aren't letting you be that and create the new one. Which is why I literally through my process, I've created this identity of the grow good guy. It's like, what would the grow good guy do? And you kind of step into that identity. So that for me is a big part of it is like create the attitudes, actions and behaviors that are the truest version of you that support you being purposeful. That's a big part of it. But the flip side is sure, it can be tough. And you know, I'm a, it's me, like I run my business by myself. My wife is self employed, so we're probably both stupid. You know, one of us should probably have that high flying corporate job that pays the mortgage. Whereas, you know, there's been quite a few months where it's like, did you get that client this month? Because that training gig I had lined up, they pushed it back a couple of months.

So that does lead to times where you do have to, I guess, compromise. And so there have been clients that I've taken on and I've done work for where in an ideal world I'd be like, I don't really want to work with you. But right now it's like, well, if I don't take this work, I don't get to do any work next month. So. And I think that's, you know, within, within the B corp framework, you know, so benefit corporations, B corporations. It is tough. You know, you do have to be a balance the good that you want to do and you intend to do and you must do versus unfortunately, you know, the commercial reality that, okay, well if we do that amount of good, it actually means we run out of money. And next month we have to, you know, make people redundant. So that's, I think is where I have compromised or had to really think about stuff.

I'm curious. There's a lot of people right now who, whether or not they're trying to do good or not, they're facing some very serious payroll implications and they're looking at their business and it's, let's just be honest, there's a lot of struggle.

Right now.

For people in those situations.

How do you help people or get in touch with that purpose? Or what do you suggest to people that they do in those moments to get access to their truer self so that they can better deal with whatever situation that they're in?

Wow.

I mean, I guess the overarching theme, and this is true for everyone in life, I guess, is it's like being on the airplane, you know, put your own life jacket on before you help others. And if you're trying to do good in the world.

You know, if you sink, you can't do good. And I guess the other analogy would be if you're a lifesaver, you know, if you're trying to save someone's life in the swimming pool or in the sea, quite often they will kick out and try and drag you down. It's like, well, you have to preserve yourself first, that you can go on to do the good that you can do. So this is where I guess, you know, life's not easy. And you know, if you, if you have the kernel of a business idea or you've got something that's really good that can go on and make significant impact. Well, you know, this is the hard one where you have to navigate and kind of go, well, do we all go down right now and this thing never gets, you know, just to see the light of day again? Or do we, you know, work a way that we can manage this, that this gets to stay alive and we maybe bring people back on? I mean, I'm certainly not in a position to provide, you know, business advice, but. And I guess like I said earlier on, you know, crisis leads you to who you really are, both good and bad. And I guess when you, when you're at that.

It'S almost like that sliding door moment, you know, that rom com movie with Gwyneth Paltrow, Sliding doors. It's like you're kind of almost at that moment. It's like, well, there's two parts here, okay? I think the key, and this is the key to all. Well, one of the keys to purpose work is when you get to that decision point. And I think people are going to be more aware of the decisions they're having to make. It's like, just sit there for a minute and kind of go, okay. Well, the natural reaction for me would be to fire all their asses. Okay? But right now we're in a very interesting time. Okay? Is that the right thing to do? And I think this is one of the like, maybe more in the business context is that you quite have quite often you humans will more than likely make the easy wrong decision rather than the hard right decision. Like we typically will make a rational, logical, financial based decision, which is easy because you just look at the numbers and go, well, numbers say we should do this, but sometimes the right decision which might lead to a little bit more pain for you is a bit harder.

So I guess that's the point of the idea of the purpose work, right? Is that like you're about people thriving and that thriving cannot just be about you thriving, it's about the world thriving. So and we're actually all experienced in this right now. We are all basically stuck in our homes. We are self regulating ourselves, limiting our ability to do all sorts of things because we know that if we go out we will one either get sick or help infect somebody else or contribute in some way that we don't know. So we are taking the time and self sacrificing for the greater good.

Exactly that.

And I find it really interesting because it is definitely the first time in my lifetime and I think maybe in the first time from the pandemic side, first time maybe ever, that so many people are self sacrificing for the good. And we are starting to see some of the benefits, people talking, people slowing down, having deeper conversations, fewer conversations, but more so I'm curious, I'm seeing benefits and I'm talking to people. It's hard like this is not at all to diminish the challenges. But are there some things that you're learning out of this experience that you're like, you know, I want to make sure that I keep this going forward whenever we get to the new normal.

Look, I just want to. Everything you just said, it's 100% agreement. And I think this is a really curious thing. I think this could be perhaps the first time in the world where we have been disconnected, where we have all been asked to make a sacrifice for the greater good. So right now everyone is living on purpose. And I think the key for us as a global purpose, leadership movement, or those, I guess more connected to their purpose in general is to let. And this is something I'm going to be moving into next week. So I think people are going to be ready, more ready for this message next week than they have been over the last few weeks. Where it's been like you say, scarcity, fear, getting into new routines. It's like just reflect on the fact that you are currently living purpose. How does that Feel like, yes, the financial, the, you know, the trauma of living with close family members that you might not ordinarily want to spend a month with. Like get that. But if you can remove that from, from the thoughts. But do you feel pretty good that you've maybe saved a thousand lives by you staying at home? So that's a. Definitely a big part of it. Definitely. The deeper conversations, that deeper connection. And yet there's a group of us here, group of guys who we started like a monthly meetup just before this all kicked off. And so we're having more regular Zoom calls now where we just, just, you know, we get on a phone call, couple of guys will drink whiskeys, I'll just have a quiet beer and we'll just kind of go like, how's it actually going?

We probably wouldn't have been, we wouldn't have been doing that as regularly if it wasn't for this. I think that's the thing again, like I said, it puts the attentional spotlight on what's going well and what's not going well in life. And I think people are. It's maybe easier now. Excuse me. It's maybe easy now in some ways to find some support like that to reach out and have a conversation with someone on Zoom in your, in your room here when you don't have the pressure of being in the office all day or you know, it's like, oh, I just got a quick. I've got to quickly jump on a Zoom call is a pretty common phrase in most houses right now. So you put a good excuse.

There will be some, There'll be some nightmares from Zoom like I'm being chased. I can't get out of the Zoom room.

I was left in the breakout room, but I couldn't get out.

I was stuck in the Breakout room. Oh, that's funny.

And just finish. I think this is the thing. It's like, how do we, you know, we have a great opportunity here to co create a new normal. It's like, hey boss, I don't want to have to drive for two hours in the car that I don't want to have to pay for to go and sit in your open plan office surrounded by people that I can barely tolerate to do a job that doesn't fulfill me. I want to work from home and be more choosy on the work that I do so I can spend more time with my kids. I think this is, this is where we have a real opportunity for everyone just to kind of go, well. Like I say, if you can take the financial and the medical stress off, which I know it's a big part of the stress, but if you can clear that to one side and kind of imagine, okay, how would I feel taking that aside, what is working for me right now? Okay. I'm not working to a tight schedule that other people are kind of enforcing on me. I can kind of get up, do a workout with my junk. I can go for a walk with the dog. I can listen to my podcast. Like, I just have a bit more room to breathe. And it'll be really interesting to see how much, how effective people have been in general in getting their work done working remotely, because I think most people would be more effective than working in the office.

It will be interesting that the childcare component, as you've talked about, probably has an impact on, but that can be worse than having to drive, like you said, an hour or two or some amount of time. There definitely will be. I'm curious.

When do you think we're going to be able to start creating the new new? Or when should we start creating the new new?

I'd say there's no better time than now. If you don't do it today, you're going to be a day older when you start. I guess the challenge, as ever, though, is who gets. And I think this is the interesting challenge is like, well, who gets to create that new new.

It's, you know, we've never been so connected. We've never been more aware of how everything works in the world. So how do we democratize the idea of what this post Covid world could look like? I mean, I guess it's been pretty interesting watching in the U.S. the U.S. just kind of giving money to people. It's like, whoa, okay, that doesn't normally work for you guys. In the US it's all about knowing every man, woman for themselves. Just, you know, land of the free, home of the brave. And it's like, suddenly here's some free money. Like in New Zealand, we've been really well supported in general. I mean, sure, there's pockets where it hasn't come through so well, but, you know, as a small business owner, I was given some money from the government that's kept me going for a month. That's like, okay, well, that's the thing. You can do that. And I've. Part of what I've been looking into, I think, because for me, part of the problem that leads to us not generally thriving and living in a world that is regenerative to us is the modern financial system and how you have to keep that going. We all have to be doing jobs to go and buy shit that we don't need. And I think that that's. There's quite a few memes and videos I've been seeing on Facebook. It's like, you know, it's interesting how the world's still going and you're not out there buying the shit that you don't need. So how do we. And this is a really interesting one because sure, like people need to work. People need to. Well, people need to have purpose in life. They don't necessarily need to work in a rubbish job that they don't like to doing. That's creating landfill. So how do we. I think it's. How do we have this collective conversation. Who gets to instigate that? I guess with governments and.

You know, so on and so forth. Like how do we create better jobs that are more fulfilling for more people that serve us and the planet?

Yeah, absolutely. I'm curious, you do live events, correct? For I have done. You have done. And I'm curious where. I have a lot of friends in the wedding business and the event business and they're looking at life and right now it's interesting talking to them about purpose is. They're just like, I don't see a future. Like they've yet to be able to really figure out a future. You know, you can only do so many workshops on how to light yourself better on Zoom.

Yeah.

That's not going to replace the, you know, 50 weddings. As a photographer.

Yeah.

And I'm curious, what are you looking at in terms of managing and going forward with events?

Yep. So I mean in. Where were we? March, April. I had like one speaking gig and two trading events booked and they just completely. One was like, oh look, maybe October. We'll just kind of see how it goes. Yeah, sure.

There was one group of live training events that I was running that the, I was running it through a third party organization and they had the facility with a paid Zoom account and they said hey look, we're just going to, we're going to take a week because it was a six week program. They said hey look, we're going to take one week off. Let people just adjust and make sure they get everything set up at home and then we'll do the last two events through zoom. So I was initially like, I don't know because my life training, you know, I like to put a lot of energy, I use lots of music, lots of interactions. I'm Like I don't know how this is going to work. Like I'm going to have to completely rejig everything. But actually, props to Zoom, the breakout rooms work out, work really well for my style of training. So I get people, I typically pose a question, so. So in a purpose workshop, first question is what does the word purpose mean to you in your teams? You have five minutes, just have a talk about what does the word mean to you right now without having to worry about getting it right or wrong. So using the breakout rooms, I can still run that same model where I'll split the people into groups of three or four or five. The only thing is they don't get to listen to my cheesy music, which I love doing as part of my workshops. So if Zoom can work out how to play music in the breakout rooms, I'm going to be set. But that's really the model I'm going to be looking, looking at is.

Working out. How can I, how can I maybe do some live, you know, live workshops? What I have found interesting over the last few years, when I first started out training sort of five years ago, there was a lot of half day and one day training events. Over the last two to three years. Most organizations are can you do 90 minutes? So 90, even live training, I've been finding 90 minutes. People would rather do six 90 minute blocks rather than, you know, a one day, let's cram them into a room. So I think if I can market it in the right way, I'm actually hopeful that I can reach a broader audience doing it through Zoom. And I hate the word pivot. I'm calling it pirouette because I think pirouette sounds way more beautiful than pivot.

I don't know, I don't love. Some people will have to pivot, some people will have to change, some people will have to reinvent. Some people will end up doing the same and, but doing it in a different way. I think the one thing I'm really driven to keep talking about purpose right now is because I believe the more clear that we are on who we are and what we're about, the better we're able to pirouette or pivot or transform or whatever it is you call that action. You're just, when you know yourself, you can just do it better and more effectively and more exactly that.

And that's why I think, you know, this is an article that I'm going to be writing hopefully over this, I'm working over this long. It's a long weekend here in New Zealand, we have Anzac Day, which is equivalent in the UK of Armistice Day. And I guess you guys have veterans. Is it Veterans Day? So it's kind of that. So, yeah, we're having that as a long weekend this weekend. So I'm taking the long weekend to work, to catch up from not working during the week as much. And that's the article. I feel the time has come for that. This week coming. It's like the sort of headline I'm working on is you shouldn't. Was it like, you shouldn't find purpose in a crisis or something along those lines? Like, you can only find basis. Like you can only find purpose in crisis. And typically for an individual, you have to get to the point where I got. Where it's like, I can't do this anymore. We don't change until we're sick and tired of being sick and tired. Right now we're having an imposed existential crisis on us. Like, my job may not be here next month. My business might not be here. And I'm one of those, like, if I don't get some stuff pulled together and I don't get some clients between now and the end of next month, I don't know what I'm going to do. We live that fiscal cliff. But I guess because I have such a clear sense of who I am and what I want to offer, it's like I just need to do the work, or as we say in Maori, do the mahi and just get on and pirouette and get some online workshops going. So I guess that would be the challenge. This is your best opportunity you're going to have probably in your lifetime where you can really look at who you are and work out, well, what. Who could I be? Like, I get to wipe the slate clean here and do something that I find more meaningful, that fulfills me and makes a difference in the world. What could that be? Because that opportunity. Because I think this is the thing and I kind of think that the world is split into two groups right now. You want those who have resources, so you've got money. So whether you're retired or you've earned a ton of money in your career and life's good, like, you don't need to worry financially. And then you've got this whole other group who are like, I don't know what's going to happen next month, and I think this really would be my call to the world is if you have resources and you're doing okay, now is your time to Seek purpose. Like, how can you make a contribution to this? I don't know, maybe half or three quarters of the planet who are sitting there going, I don't know what my life looks like next month. Like, there's an instant way that at least half of the world could connect to a higher purpose right now and just go, I'm going to go and help some people.

I definitely think that there's a opportunity and I actually think it's, it's probably for most people. Most people have more resources than we realize and that there is something we can do. And sometimes you learn, you learn what you need to do for yourself by doing something for other somebody else.

I think it's the only way. It's a quote that I use all the time in my coaching and training. As Gandhi said, the only way to find yourself is to lose yourself in the service of others. If you, and this is something I quite often advise to people who are maybe not fully engaged in their work environment, but haven't yet got the clarity or the courage to make a leap into doing something different. Just go volunteer. Like, what is the cause? So if you're flicking through the paper, which I don't advise people to do anyway, but if you were going to do that, or if you're scrolling through the newsfeed on, on your, on the newspaper, like, what is the cause or the thing that gets you fired up, you know, is it kids not getting food? Is it deforestation? Is it climate change? Is it poverty? If that gets you angry, cool, go and do something about it. Just go and volunteer somewhere and get a deeper understanding of why that thing's happening. You'll be a better human just from doing that and you'll get more clarity on, okay, well, why does that, where does that come from? Is it from something in my childhood? Like, were we poor when we were growing up? And I kind of block that and, but actually, that's the thing that's always kind of bothered me. And why, why were we poor? And how do I help other kids not grow up in a poor house? Go and do that?

Awesome. What, what systems do you have? Like, right now there's just, it's a lot of, like, it's, you know, there's, it's like chaos. There's, you know, we're getting pulled in all sorts of different directions and a lot of external things. There's a lot of internal kind of chaos going on. And what systems do you have in place to help you keep focused, keep moving forward, keep taking those baby Steps.

So I think the two, the two key steps and this is again this is like what I'd advise someone who's wanting to get on the journey to being more purposeful and just is number one is just pause, just like take that time out and just find opportunities for self care. Because people who are living purpose are generally we're helpers, we want to help, we get a little bit martyrish. It's not about me, it's about the kids. And it's like that's cool. And then you get to a point and this is what happened to me yesterday. I got to the point where I just flip the game tables that I'm out of here. I can't do this. I can tap it out because it's like I've been trying to do too much during this week. So just pause and find those times for a self love. So even if it's just sitting in a dark room doing nothing like at the most basic or go for a walk or go and do some weights or whatever that thing is, try and avoid the booze. I know there's like the sales of alcohol in New Zealand, they're going through the roof, you know. Yeah, let's self medicate. How's that going to end out in the end? So just pause and just start and just have quiet time. Like just do nothing. Even if just five minutes, you know, if you're an early person, get up and just look at the sunrise. 5, 10 minutes. If you're a night person, just stare at the sunset for 5, 10 minutes and just do nothing. Because we spend so much of our time in our heads. This is one of the big reasons why I think in the western world we're so disconnected from who we truly are. Like in aboriginal cultures particularly, you know, in Australia where they have big Aboriginal community, you hear stories there where they will say they spend maybe 90% of their time thinking with their stomach, so with their soul. And then they might spend 8% of their thinking with their heart. So does it feel like the right thing to do? And then they'll put a final 2%. Logical, okay, is it the right time to do that? Whereas we spend probably 98% of our time in our heads, maybe one and a half percent in our heart and half percent thinking to actually that soul connected actually who am I? Is this really, really the right thing to do? So I think the more you can just disconnect and just pause, the more you'll let all of that start coming through. And then the second thing would Be. Just start reflecting. So actually, what is going well, what's not going so well? And journaling is the best way to do that. Just make some notes at the end of every day, like, just, just how am I feeling? Just, like, put it down onto a piece of paper or type it out. Writing's best because you get a better connection to it. Like, if you just do those two things, you'll be a better human.

That's great. How can people. Oh, I'm sorry, before I get asked that, where you've been on this journey and you're moving through what's next for you in terms of your own growth. Because I always like to believe that purposes. We're always growing. Once you step on the purpose path, if you're not. If you don't, like, if you're not in the growth, it's going to be a tough experience for you. So where do you see yourself growing going forward?

I literally. I don't know because. Because, well, I kind of do know, but I don't know. I think. I don't know in the, like, who knows? Like, there are so many options available as to where I could go. There's within the, within the GPL group, I think there was one discussion. I don't remember if you. I don't recall if you were a member by this point or not, but there was. There was a bit of a talk about spirituality and, you know, where does purpose and spirituality fit in? And from my observations of the GPL group, I kind of feel like people come to purpose through one of two main paths. One is a spiritual path and one is the logical path. And I definitely was the logical one. It's like, this isn't making sense. Why does this not make sense? I need to work out all this stuff. But what I kind of get the sense is you both kind of end up at a point of going, oh, okay. We are all connected as humans and we don't actually really know what human consciousness. Like, we don't know what human consciousness is. We don't really know. There's a whole lot of things that we just don't really understand, like how they work in the world. And for me, that's. That's the rabbit hole. I feel like I'm being drawn down. And there's. There's another piece around curiosity, like when you're curious about something, like, where does that come from? Like, we don't know. And the best working theory is that that is the closest to your true self, your true soul, that you can experience whilst alive as a human because something is calling you to go and look at it, but it's not logical, it's not rational. And there's a whole lot of stuff that I feel a lot of curiosity around. Around in particular, like truly ancient civilizations. So there's a, there's a place called Gopalaki Tepe in, which is in southern Turkey where they have found like we thought Egypt was the, was the first civilization. Well, these guys, the dating suggests that this is like 10,000 years before the Egyptians and they had cities bigger than the Egyptians. So like what is that from? And what did they believe in? And I guess I studied medieval history at university, so I have a proclivity to look at history. But that stuff really fascinates me. Like where have we come from? And I think part of that is, is when you look back at the last, say 2,000 years of history, so. Or maybe even a bit more than that. So beginnings of sort of Greek and Roman society. Have we ever had a society of humans that have truly been on purpose? So you look at like the Greeks and the Romans, they still had slaves, they still treated people pretty badly. They were always off, you know, killing each other in the next door city to get another bit of land. And we seem to have been like that since then. So what were any of these civilizations actually true, truer civilizations where they were better than we've been and we just don't know that. And we've lost that learning. So that's, that's where I'm kind of going down. But it's a very, like, I ain't gonna be teaching that stuff. That's just pure personal growth. Like this just intrigues me.

All right, well, I think that's a big part of purpose is it's the, it's the awareness of like, oh, that is interesting to me. And start pulling that thread in whatever way, shape or form that looks great. How can people get in touch with you if they want to work with you?

That is a great question. So if you just look for Grow Good or Tim Jones, the Grow Good guy, you should pretty much find me. But my website is Growgood Co. Yeah, if you look for that, you will find me. And I'm mainly on LinkedIn and Facebook. So if you look for Tim Jones Grow Good through any of those, you'll be able to get hold of me.

Great, thank you very much. And those will all be in the show notes, of course. Any last words of wisdom for people?

Just be kind to yourself right now. That's Our prime minister here, Jacindran Jacinda Ardern, that's kind of one thing she's been saying is like, be kind. Right now, I think that's probably a pretty good, you know, idea. People are struggling. So be kind and just ask people, how can I help? Because that's the basis of purpose. How can I serve you? Because people are struggling right now, but we don't like asking for help. So be kind and ask, how can I help?

And I'm going to add in, ask for help when you need it.

Exactly that. Exactly that.

I think that's a big thing. Like, we can obviously help out whenever you can, but in this time, I don't think we can do it alone. We got to ask for help, particularly.

The guys, because, guys, we're rubbish asking for help because we're the problem solvers. We know how to do it. We have to be strong and warriors and brave. That ain't always the truth.

Sometimes it's not going to work. Okay, man, I really appreciate you taking the time. Thank you so much. Good luck with everything. I can't wait to see what you do. And to everyone else, go out, be kind yourself, help yourself, help others. And we'll talk to you next time.

Bye. See you, buddy.

And that's a wrap. Hey, thank you so much for listening into my podcast. I hope you found it informative and inspirational. I'd love to know where you are on your purpose journey. And if you have any specific questions or people you'd like me to interview to help you on that journey, please, please do let me know. Also, feel free to connect with me on other social media platforms. You can check out all those links in the show notes below. And if you want to see how I might be able to help you specifically on your purpose journey, you can go and check out my website, www.growgood.co or drop me a line by email, timogrogood. Co. All those links will also be in the show notes. I would genuinely love to hear from you. But anyway, until next time, go well and keep seeking that purpose. Fuel performance in your life. It.