#20 On Purpose With Brandon Peele

Foreign.

And welcome to Purpose Fueled Performance with me, your host, Tim Jones, the grow good guy.

We are live. Apparently you never know what the Internet's actually doing, but theoretically, we are live. So hello Humans of LinkedIn and other platforms who will be listening to this PFP TV episode number four with Brandon Peel. Brandon, how's it going? What's up?

It's going good, Tim. It's good to see you. What is up?

America is up right now, so we'll.

Go straight in with the big topic.

Yeah, yeah.

But just for a bit of context, obviously not everyone tuning in will. Will know who you are. So who are you? What do you do? What? What? How do we know each other? Let's go there.

Yeah, well, we're part of this international ragtag group of purpose crazies who.

Yeah. Who have basically taken the purpose gospel into our hearts and have been transformed by it and want to help others do it. So what I'm talking about is the global purpose leaders and who and I are part of that fun group, which is a nice shout out to anybody here who's doing purpose work. Come check us out. Globalpurpurposeleaders.org.

And yeah, I spend most of my time thinking about how we can connect people to their purpose and create a culture that feels empathetic, like where you belong and where your purpose is basically cared for, where it's stood for, where people are like, you're special, you have a soul, you came here to give a gift. And we're all in this together, so I do a lot of that work.

Nice. And you are based in the US of A. Clearly. And whereabouts are you hanging out?

San Diego.

San Diego. Been there a couple of times. Nice city. The one. The one that. I did some training there back in the day when I was working in the medical companies. And I like the way they refer to the.

Like the hazy air above the interstate. That was the Seafog was like. Are you sure it's a C. Fog? Seems to be mainly over the traffic twice a day. But hey, what do I know? I'm. I know like.

Yeah, no, that's not C. Fog.

Yeah. So purpose stuff. How did you get into.

I guess. Yeah. How did you get into this whole world of purpose? And, and where were you before that?

Yeah, well, I got suckered into it, basically.

Yeah. So. So before, you know, like, like you, I worked in business development, but in the tech sector up in the Bay Area and. But I was really, you know, had kind of lived two lives. I was like Batman or Jekyll and hey, like by day I was just like gregarious business development person who, you know, pushed pixels and who knows if I ever helped anybody through that. But. But by night I was, you know, very deeply into personal spiritual development and for, I'd say like seven years prior to beginning the purpose journey myself.

And I just happened to like mention off the cuff, like, I don't know what I want, what I want to do with my life. You know, I've worked it up with all these different social enterprises and education, nonprofits, renewable energy, sustainable goods. But I'm like, part of me wants to go to India and be a monk and just like focus on the non dual and become, you know, one with God. Part of me just wants to put blinders on and like marry a nice girl, move to the suburbs, flip hamburgers and coach little league.

Part of me just wants to like go out to the bars and drink and pick up girls. And part of me wants to do like a fight club style takedown of capitalism.

They're all like equally alive.

Which one do I want?

Yeah.

Which path do I follow here?

Yeah, I'm sure, like, as you know, you can relate. You're a little further down the, the family path than I am, but. Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's. I think what you are talking about there is something that is true for a lot of. I guess we can only speak for the guys predominantly because we're both blokes. I think that seems to be a common challenge for. Because how old were you when you were kind of when that really started popping up for you?

I would say the, the initial kind of descent into personal spiritual development began in my late 20s. And then 33 was when I started to do purpose work.

Yeah. And I think that's pretty. I guess from the union perspective, it's that kind of 35 is this sort of a number that's pretty frequent for guys in particular to start going, I'm not so sure what, what I want to be when I grow up anymore.

Yeah, super cool. So what happened? You. You obviously. Because I mean you're, you're. I mean, for me, you're one of my kind of purpose gurus. It was you and, and Zach Mercurio who? Or I never. Is it Mercurial material? Because some people with one C, you know, because there's a town, Luca in Italy, and that's double C, which is the hard seat. Like the hard seat. But I don't know everyone, Italian people need to come up.

Mercurio. I don't Think we'll go with that.

Yeah. Hey, Zach, if you're listening. Yeah, but, yeah, you. Zach was one of the first people that I bumped into on my purpose journey, and he was like, you need to talk to Brandon Peel. And I was like, okay. And then I remember checking out your, you know, your website and your profile. I was like, I don't know that I'm ready to talk to this guy, because he clearly is, like, the man in terms of purpose. So, yeah, clearly you're doing some really cool stuff. So how did you, you know, you started personal development work, which I think is the. The key to anyone who's not sure, just become a better version of you in any. In any part of your life, and that will give you some guidance. But, yeah. What was. Was there, like, a moment for you? Because for me, I had what I call this really hard Brexit where it's like, I'm done with the corporate world. I'm out. I need to go and find something else. Or was it more of a slow burn for you?

Yeah, I would say. I mean, there were a couple kind of cracks in the. In the. In the matrix or that that happened. You know, one. One happened right after college. I was like, I'd go into Europe by myself, and I was raised in the United States thinking that we had the best of everything. You know, it's like the best wine, the best country, the best democracy, the best economy, the best, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I get to Europe, I'm like, wait a minute. This is way awesomer in so many ways.

So that's kind of like. I would say that was the first piece where I'm like, okay, maybe everything I've been told is not entirely factual.

And then when I went to. When I was in graduate school, I took this personal development program that just happened to be offered through my MBA program. And, you know, it just. Just kind of hit me. I'm like, wow, I am profoundly ignorant. All I know how to do is Excel PowerPoint party and Chase women, and.

That'S it. Like. And I know nothing about everything else that matters. Nothing of the soul, nothing of spirituality, mythology, psychology, comparative religion, poetry, all the things that kind of tell us who we are, what it means to be alive. So, you know, while everybody else is going back to Wall street and McKinsey and all that, I'm like, I don't even know, really. I can't even beat for sure whether or not I exist. I need to like.

Having some slightly bigger metaphysical.

Yeah, I don't think I want to lean my ladder against the wall where I'm working 60 hours, 70 hours a week, when I'm pretty sure most of these businesses are making the world a worse place. So I came out to the Bay Area, where they're, at the time in the mid 2000s or early 2000s, really, there weren't many places where you could have a conversation about doing well and doing good. So it was either like, you know, nonprofit government, you know, or, you know, teacher, artist, or you. You were a corporate shill. And in the Bay Area at the time, they. There were social enterprises. So I worked for a few of them. But I also knew that that's where kind of the heart of the. I don't know what you call it, personal transformation movement was. And I had just gotten that bug, so I was just gobbling up Landmark programs. Men's work, meditation, going to India, hallucinogens therapy, you name it. Just, like, really trying to, you know, rip out the wiring and, like, see what's true.

And then in my early 30s, I met Jonathan Gustin, who's now the head of the Purpose Guides Institute. And he was like, you know, after I told him about, you know, fight club style takedown and being a monk and all that, he's like, oh, so you don't know your purpose? And at the time, I was in this very interesting place.

I knew about personal development. I'd done a lot of that, like, landmark just kind of integrity, owning, you know, owning your bs, cleaning things up. And I knew about spirituality, meditating and praying and all that, but I didn't know anything about this slower world, this. This realm where the soul lives or where that information about what your life is supposed to be for what we. We call purpose.

Right?

And I'm like, okay, let's do it. So I worked with him, and it was amazing. Like, really got clear on how my ego got constructed, why it was preventing me from listening to my. My soul's purpose and then deconstructed it. Got to the. To the heart of the matter. And basically, since 2012, I've been on a purpose path, you know, just trying to help as many people as I can. Books and teaching and go together, pursuit of purpose. I love it.

Yeah.

You touched on quite. There's quite. Well, as always, there's so much great content that you espouse. You kind of. For me, I think the education piece is a really, really key part of why so many people are not living an authentic. And I think. I think you and I both know what we Mean by kind of authentic soul driven life. But I think it's, that's a, that's something else we can kind of unpack in a minute. But it, it's almost criminal the lack of foundational education that young humans are given. Like you say in, in, in, dare I say it, the arts, but ancient philosophy, even history. I mean, I say this, I've got a degree in Medieval history, so I know a little bit about where, you know, the UK has kind of come from and how it was established. But the more you kind of go back, the more interesting things you realize and when you see things that are happening today, I mean, I've been reading a lot of Arthurian historical fiction books recently, really digging into this kind of period of 400 to 700 AD in Britain where no one really, because the records are, are pretty poor, no one really knows what happened. And that element of we don't know really kind of appeals to me. But the thing that really, really resonates to me as a Welsh rugby fan, the Welsh rugby union has always struggled because of the provincial nature of Welsh rugby clubs. And they're all, all want to be the best. Well, if you look at that in isolation, that's one thing. But if you look at it in the historical context, that's how the native Britons who eventually then became the Welsh, that's how we've been all along. And that's why essentially the Anglo Saxons invaded and took over most of the country was because we couldn't get our together and just go, hey, actually should we look at the greater idea here and maybe, you know, coalesce around this rather than us trying to kill each other. And so it's just really interesting that you look at that within historical context and go, actually, it wasn't, it's not our fault. Well, it's not, it's not. Yeah, we weren't kind of invaded. It was actually more the fact that we let that, let that happen to us. And I just think, yeah, there's context in that and, and yeah, there's. So, I mean, I, I went to a couple of philosophy classes when I was at uni, but I just wasn't ready for it. You know, when the teacher, day one teacher goes, is this a question?

I'm hungover. I'm going, what time does the pub open? Yeah, whatever, mate. Yeah, but how do you think, Sorry.

You go, well, I was gonna say, I mean the, you hit on a point. It is criminal. It's, it's, it's criminal how unattended the human soul is because it basically, until we attend to it with the liberal arts, personal spiritual development practices, rites of passage, mentorship guidance, it's basically ripe for exploitation. And I remember in my 20s when I got that, like I'd seen Fight Club, I read four arguments for the elimination of television. I'm like, I have been exploited. And you know, and in that. And I totally get that I'm as privileged and as possible, but it doesn't mean that I've been living an authentic life and oppressing people. I've been oppressing people from an inauthentic place because I didn't know any better. Nobody. I didn't have any soul initiated mentors. Yeah, I was just doing what was expected of people like me at that time and place. And it is criminal.

When do you think that. Because I've been trying to. I've been sort of contemplating this a little bit recently in terms, in terms of, well, the, the establishment of the first universities globally, like your Oxfords. And I think, you know, a lot of Italian cities had universities and, and I guess even further back than that, you'd look at. And you said it's, it's Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Spa is how I remember it. You know, those guys were clearly providing that level of kind of spiritual, metaphysical and scientific teaching. But, but I guess in for the vast time or sort of modern times that's been for the rich and the wealthy, it's like, you know, Alexander the Great would go and train with, with those guys, you know, you're a king's son or you're, you're clearly a top tier of the society and everyone else was kind of like, well, you, you'll just be a fisherman and you know, just be grateful that you get, get to have a job. But where, where was it, do you think, in the modern world that we started to lose interest or. Yeah. When did, when did that depth of education within the humanities stop being a thing? Because it clearly has been. You know, there are some really smart people who, who know a lot of this stuff and, but like for you and me, we've kind of been allowed to discover it in our 30s. And you kind of go, well that's such a waste. Like, what if I had 30 years of learning this stuff? So, yeah. Do you sense. Is there a particular time in history when it's been kind of sidelined or.

I mean.

By the way, I agree with your hypothesis. For the most part, education, the development of the soul has been reserved for those who are very wealthy.

Right.

You Know, I, the United States, English, you know, Anglo, WASPI culture was pretty intellectual, like very much contributed to society, to.

You know, they believed in spiritual development, intellectual development.

You know. So I can, I can speak from the American perspective. I mean, we basically stopped that, I would say probably in the 60s, 70s, as this kind of basic degradation of the commons. And so even among the privileged, you know, mostly white folks, that went away beginning in like 60s, 70s.

But I think the, you know, the broader, the broader stuff, you know.

I think what's actually more important than the intellectual tradition, which is part of a lot of.

Yeah, just a lot, a lot of practices. Right. But what's more important is the disconnection from soul. Like when that happened. No, that was depending on who you talk to. That was either like when we invented the written Alphabet, when we invented agriculture, or when we know, moved men and women off the farms and into the slums to work the factories. So you probably. It's a progression.

Yeah, so incremental.

But when we were smaller hunter gatherers, we would all have shamanic capacity. So, like, I could hold space for you to experience something. You could hold space for me. We would check in around the fire every night, all that. And there was probably a village elder that was either at the fire with us or lived on the outside outskirts of the village who could basically initiate us, nurture ourselves. And so we had intact cultures. And then little by little, with agriculture, industrialization, et cetera, we began to become less and less intact and more atomized.

So I think what we're kind of redoing or we're kind of what in the midst of is a repatriation of wholeness, of soul, of what it means to be a human being that's part of a collective. I mean, that whole thing, you know, enlightenment stripped us of any collective identity. And so like, I grew up thinking, I'm on my own. You probably grew up thinking, you're on your own, Tim. Figure it out, idiot. You know, like that pretty much the case, you know, our 200,000 year history. We took care of each other, we lived in a tribe.

Yeah, exactly that. And then I think, yeah, I think you're so right on all of that. And then I think on top of that, you layer more recently in, in our lifetime, you know, Reagan, Thatcher, economics. I think I've mentioned it a couple of times in these sessions. You know, Margaret Thatcher, Prime Minister of Great Britain, one of her quotes, there is no such thing as society. It's like, how, how can from an anthropological, biological, spiritual, like Other than just make as much money as you can and don't worry about everyone else. Like, that's pretty much the only lens that you can put on the thought that there is no such thing as a society and that we don't have a reliance on each other and we shouldn't have reliance on each other. Yeah, it's so. Yeah, it's. It's just interesting, I guess, where we are and tragic.

It's tragic. It's that, that. That thinking. I mean, she wasn't the first to say it or to think about it, but. But that thinking is essentially what permeates all of our problems. I mean, it's at the heart of white supremacy, it's at the heart of racial injustice. It's at the heart of economic exploitation, inequality, climate change. I mean, this notion that we are not together, that we are not a social herd animal.

Has got us doing all kinds of stupid stuff that is against our nature and hurts everybody else.

We are in interesting times, that is for sure. But I guess there's always. There's always been interesting times, but perhaps we. It's ironic that we've never been more connected as a species, but been so disconnected. And you can make an argument that the very platforms that should be connecting us are disconnecting us at the same time. Yeah, I don't know. It'd be really interesting. I. I'd love to be able to time travel and go back to sort of key moments in history and just know what actually happened, but. But also, it'd be pretty cool, I guess. Bill and Ted's adventure, like, bring, like what if you bring. If you bought so crates back to now. Dude, what do we do? Like, just tell us.

Was this kind of stuff happening at your time or is this like, completely different? But you must have got some. Some insights.

I guess that kind of segues nicely. Like, you're. I know those of you who, who maybe go check out Brandon's work and his sort of social platforms. America right now is. That's what you want to. You kind of want to bring your work to the level of a nation and work out how. How you can be a part of bringing a country together. So what's. Yeah, where are you at? Like, what's your. What do you think that the challenges or the problem is at the highest level that you want to really help contribute towards fixing?

Yeah, I mean, well, there's a lot that is in the way. Right. And there's only so much I can do in this lifetime. So, you know, we've got gross inefficiencies and dysfunctions in the structural government. You know, things with the filibuster and gerrymandering and how senators are allocated and money in politics. And so there's like, political dysfunction.

There. You know, speaking of Reagan.

The FCC Fairness Doctrine, which then kind of turned into this Internet free for all where you could literally say anything and not be accountable for what you're saying. There's no fiduciary responsibility to represent the truth. And there's, there's, there's no punishment, no accountability if you don't. So, you know, I'm, I just, you know, today in the New York Times, like Biden voters are getting vaccinated. They're starting to go out. Trump voters are not getting vaccinated. They don't either think Covid's a hoax or the vaccine. Bill Gates has got a microchip in it. Living in these two disparate realities.

That'S a big thing. Media, truth, accountability. We got the government dysfunction, we get the media dysfunction.

And now, after having like, five, six decades of neoliberal liberalism, the United States has become deeply segregated in a way that is way more segregated and unequal and therefore out of integrity with America's sole purpose. It was 50, 60 years ago. We're segregated economically, geographically, racially, generationally. You know, it's almost like we're all like. America is basically just like one big airport, just like for a little bit to, like, go fill up on gas or there. You know, you might see a Trump photo, it might see an old person, or you might see a gay person, you might see a black person at the store. That's about it. And like San Diego, my. My town, I mean, it's. There's like a Filipino neighborhood, Little Saigon, Barrio Logan City Heights, where I'm at, and everything is like its own little.

Cohesive enclave. Even though it's diverse, it's not integrated. So last year, when I decided to kind of take what I had learned from the for profit space, you know, activating purpose and belonging in organizations, I was like, okay, George Floyd died. George Floyd was murdered. Our country's falling apart. We might get another four years of Trump. I've got to do something that really serves this country because we are completely screwed.

I left my former job at Ion where we're working on organization, culture change, purpose, empathy, inclusion.

And I just said, okay, I'm going to pick my head up and see where can I.

Take what I know about culture change and point it at America's soul sickness. So did a bunch of research on cross sectors, religion, education, neighborhood organizations, PTAs, trying to figure out.

What are the contexts for people that come together around a shared purpose. And what I discovered is pretty much what I just told you. We're segregated. And really the only place where we spend any time with anybody else who is not like us is at work.

And so I'm like, oh, I gotta go back to B2B sales.

Because it's like 18 month deal cycles and people are leaving. You know, the buyer has, has no money and even less power. I'm like, please, no, I don't want to do it.

Yeah. And the CEO is like purpose. Woo woo. Stuff like, seriously, how's this going to help us be a better company?

Yeah, exactly. So luckily, I mean you and I know this, but.

There'S a tide of purpose behind us.

There are parts of it that are very pure around like, let's be something true that actually serves people and then there are parts that are more, you know, whitewashing or purpose. Watch as Zach talks about.

So.

Like I said, I came to the unfortunate conclusion. It's back in organizations. And.

When I look at what's missing.

Essentially the two things that are good for America and good for companies are purpose and belonging. Meaning as soon as we understand our own purpose, we de identify with gender, race, sexuality, age, nationality. We're like, oh, I'm soul. Like in my soul there's courage, there's compassion, integrity and wonder. And you're a soul. And there's, you know, creativity and humility and humor. And that's how we relate to one another. As opposed to white guy. To white guy or black girl. Black girl. So there's a, there's essentially an American purpose that is delivered when somebody discovers their purpose, their own purpose, because they see themselves as really who they are and not these other identities.

And I think if you, if you've.

Sort of transcended your own ego and bullshit and programming. Like I remember when I was at like very young at school, someone taught and it was a very, very white upbringing. Someone told me that black people were a thing and I'm like, don't be ridiculous. Like how, how can that, how can that be? Look around you. And then it was a couple of years later at school, we had a couple of guys. I'm trying to remember the guy's name now. He was like a Nigerian, like a genuine Nigerian prince who came to the school and it was like, wow, holy crap. Like that guy was, that guy was right. There are black People like, how does that work? Like, like it was such a shelter, like rural, rural England, you know, it just, yeah, and I think for me it was, there was all that programming through school and potentially through, you know, familial stuff around, particularly around racism and what have you, that it's, it's when you truly transcend and you go on your own purpose journey and you, and you get to that next level of consciousness and you realize, well, it, it is all meaningless, it is all pointless as to arbitrarily, you know, provide distinctions between people based on identities. It's like we're all, we're all humans trying to get to 80, 90 years if we're lucky and be able to look back at the end of it and go, it was kind of fun, it was worthwhile. I did the best that I could. And yeah, I think for me that's, that's why I'm, I'm so on the purpose thing because it's, it's. If you have transcended and you have reached a level of purpose, like true purpose, you will not want any other thing to suffer. So exactly. Automatically get rid of any of the isms that, that affect us if you are truly off purpose because you just won't tolerate it.

Well, I agree that that impetus is there and that's within every, you know, awakened soul. And you know, speaking as somebody was raised with a lot of the biases, a lot of the isms, I'm still ripping stuff out, like totally decade. I'm still finding my wife just always telling me like that was pretty sexy. I'm like, yeah.

Oh really? Yeah. But you've got 30 odd years of conditioning that you're, you're working through. So there's going to be the odd lapse or. But the intent, I think, and I think that's the key. We're unlike, unlikely to get to perfection. But if we're all striving, at least for that.

One, I mean, I totally agree. I mean, for me, I think it's, it's the, the individual within the organization that, that's the level of change. Because if we create better individuals who have transcended and who have reached their highest level of purpose, fuel performance, you will create organizations who will do more good, who will create more change, which will then put the pressure on the systems. Because I totally agree. I remember reading when I was kind of going through my purpose journey, I think it was a Washington Post article where a professor can't remember from what university, but he basically done the research and said, you, you, you literally might as well not vote in a U.S. election because it's all been figured out based on the, the financial contributions of large companies as to who's going to win. Like they did the evidence and said it's like statistically insignificant. Yeah, that's the one. Yeah. And you kind of look at that and you go, cool. So the way we get better leaders at the top is to have better humans working in better organizations who demand better systems. And that's, that's kind of my bigger theory of change.

Well, well, Tim, hope you're got your seatbelt on, because just wait like the. You probably see some of this research around.

Some. McKinsey. McKinsey put this thing out a couple weeks ago. It was like. Two thirds of American workers have re examined their life purpose since the pandemic. 70% of American workers expect that their career is their primary source of purpose and meaning, and only 15% believe that it's possible in their current role. And I saw another statistic that said almost half of employees, I think it's from Envoy, are planning to leave their jobs after the pandemic. So there's a desire for purpose, the awareness that it belongs at work and that I can't do it here. So the smart people, leaders are going to start to do a bunch of purpose programs. The ones who are oblivious or who doubt it or who just think it's a fad, oh, it needs a good war, good recession. Then everyone will go back to like doing what we call them.

Nothing like a good war. Come on.

Yeah, nothing like a good war.

Yeah.

So those folks are basically just gonna atrophy. Like they're not going to be able to find people. And you know, just reading the Times again, New York Times today, all of these millennials, not all of them, but I said many millennials are, are just like, I'm out. I either am going to volunteer in politics, try to fix this system that's destroying my planet, or I'm gonna start something new. I just, I just can't do this zoom thing all day, every day with no meaningful impact I can point to on Maslow's hierarchy or the UN sustainable. I'm just not. I, I'm out. I'd rather be poor, rather be on the street.

That's massive, isn't it?

Oh, I mean, something came to mind then, but that's gone. That's all right. It'll come back. No, I agree. And, and you know, I think you and I and others in the gpl, we We've kind of been very, very early adopters on this kind of modern purpose idea. And we've probably not even been on the bleeding edge. We've been on the. If there's something ahead of the bleeding edge, like the pre. That the, the air that announces that the knife is about to make the cut, I kind of feel we've kind of been there, quite a few of us, but it's definitely even in little old New Zealand. You know, the, the amount of interest I'm having in, in people wanting to say, hey, this B Corporation stuff, like, okay, can we just dip our toes into purpose from. From here? It's like, cool, let's just measure where you're at. Let's just see what you're doing. It's like exponentially ramping up this year. And I think the pandemic is. I don't know. I mean, there's the whole. Was it Charles Eisenstein, his, His Corona letter that he wrote? You know, like, it's, it's the. Maybe this is, this is part of something that we, we just need to have as that pause and that reflect. And yeah, I'm massively hopeful that many, many people who have the opportunity. And I'm not. Not suggesting, you know, clearly there are a lot of people in a lot of countries who are struggling economically, financially, spiritually, mentally, physically, but that's kind of always the case. But not to. To diminish that, but there is, There is a strata of people, particularly in the US who have the wealth, have the opportunity, have now been given that. That challenge. And I think that's. That's really the only time people go and seek purpose is when, you know, was it the phrase you're at. You only change when you're sick and tired of being sick and tired. And that's what I was going to say. Like, I mean, this is something I talk about frequently in my sort of workshops and stuff is, you know, when you look at the engagement stats of people at work, in employment, you know, I always imagine so you, You've just spent two hours creating this spreadsheet of stuff which you don't care about, which you know is not going to make any difference, and you're about to email that to someone in another company who equally doesn't give a shit about anything in that spreadsheet, and they're gonna have to spend two hours looking at it and reporting that someone else who also doesn't give a shit about that spreadsheet yet we're all doing it. It's like, could someone just stop sending the spreadsheets or the PowerPoints or the Word documents just for one day and see what happens?

I want that, I want that for everyone.

Yeah, well, I think we're, we're getting there, man. You know, and you know, you're certainly, you've been doing this for longer than I have. So it's guys like yourself and, and the other crazies in the gpl. I think pretty soon though, we're not going to be seen as the crazies. I think five years ago we were definitely like, what is this group of woo woo crazy people?

Yeah.

Talking about soul and spirit and da da da da. Whereas I think, yeah, more, more and more people have had that pause and that reflection and kind of gone. Maybe there is something else. And I think you look at the history of humanity, it would suggest that there is more. I always pick on Excel because I don't like Excel. But it's like that maybe there's more to life than just filling in Excel sheets for some guy or girl who I report to, who equally doesn't give a about this stuff.

Yeah, it's really, really funky time.

Yeah. The good news though is that like.

You know, so if you go back to like when 911 happened, right in the United States, a bunch of people revisited their purpose and what they wanted to do.

But there wasn't much out there in.

It was 99, right? 99, 2001.

2001.

Yeah, it was 9 11, 2000.

Yeah.

You know, there, there, there were books but you had to look, you'd look for them, but there weren't that many guides there. There wasn't E learning. You couldn't do big group programs online.

You know, nobody was doing it in organizations.

And we didn't have like all that, all the science, all the aggregated science wasn't. So now it's like we have these, There's a much bigger bridge for people to walk on from this place of meaningless Excel to a purpose driven career in life. So I'm very excited.

Actually. I'll give you a sneak peek of our next GPL Call is going to be about like this wave, this, this, this wave of purpose changes, purpose discovery, purpose activation that's going to happen once the pandemic gets under control.

Nice. I'm just putting on the ticker below the science of purpose.org, which you have been again, this is you, you underestimate, I think how much you, you have contributed and are contributing to this movement. So if, if you are Still, I mean it's interesting because there's a. Like when McKinsey and co are getting into the. Hey, purpose is a thing. And I've got a couple of browsers open on my desktop here from EY and PwC. You know, this is mainstream corporate thinking now that purpose is a thing. If you're still not sure that purpose is the thing that you should be looking for. And that's kind of, for me, that's why I chose Purpose Fuel Performance as my tagline. It's like you're missing out on the ultimate untapped. It's almost like a nuclear level type of energy that just keeps on going. If you're not convinced, check out Brandon's website, scienceofpurpose.org and you are just collating more and more like there's. If anyone can throw us the evidence that shows being on purpose is bad for you.

Please send it our way because either we're in a massive echo chamber, which is a possibility because we do tend to hang out with a lot of other purpose type people. But I, I don't, I can't see how there is any evidence.

There was, there was one thing, it was recent and I posted in the GPL forum.

Not that it takes anything away from the other research or the movement, but what they found is that organizations that have a big social purpose.

Like impact entrepreneurs.

Non profits.

There'S a strong potential that they essentially sacrifice individuals on the altar of this larger purpose and end up burning people out and they have all kinds of mental and physical problems as a result. So you can, I mean, and again, I just posted this other question last night about like, you know, that's why we have to have individual purpose awakening in tandem with organizational or social purpose. Because if it's just organizational, you know, that's we work. That's Adam Newman selling a bunch of bs, telling people about meaning and purpose, working them to the, to the bone. They're not actually doing anything, they're not actually improving people's lives.

You know, there's a whole number of organizations that talk a big purpose game but in reality, like you can't be about a purpose if you're not about the purpose of your people.

Yeah, yeah, totally. But I get a sense that having spent time working in the not for profit sector as well as the for profit sector.

And, and I'll definitely reference Michelle Sharp here who was CEO of Kilmatic Enterprise when I was hanging out with them. She's now CEO of UNICEF New Zealand. And the thing that we would Constantly say to each other is like doing good should not be this hard. But I kind of feel there's an element of. There is, there is systemic change that we are wanting to force and push. And the still the over. The overarching narrative I think is crumbling, it's cracking and it's realizing that it's, it needs to change. But I think there is a. Collectively we are in some of these purpose driven organizations, we're having to do a lot of heavy lifting and you're having to repeat basic kind of in your mind. But it's like, oh, do we have to go there again? It's like you should just know this. But you forget that a lot of people don't know the thing that you're talking about. So I get that it can be used as a, you know, selling purpose to the team, can be used as a whip to kind of crack them and make them do stuff slightly nefariously. But I generally also think there's, there's a lot, I guess there's a, there's a. What's the word I'm looking for? Like a personality type proclivity to do, to want to do good. That means you typically put yourself last anyway. That kind of martyr type personality type which is kind of what it's known as like for the greater good. And the risk is you take that too far. And so I think there's this stuff around that. But totally. But I get, I guess the argument would be. Counter argument would be, well, it's better to be burnt out trying to make the world a better place rather than be burnt out for the corporate shill who. But hey, maybe the money's better working for the corporate shield. So I don't know yet. Don't. That's not. No, but you know what I mean, it's like totally hear that.

Yeah, absolutely.

And it's been a journey for me too. I may be like.

Actually the pandemic helped me. Pandemic helped me feel more and helped me kind of create more spaciousness because I was full tilt. I mean just like 60, 70 hours a week up at 6am reading, writing calls all day, you know, to like 7ish. You know, everything I did in the evening was purpose aligned, purpose driven. Like, you know, there's this country song. Oh God, who's it? I think David Allen Cova. It's like I need a little time off for bad behavior. Like I, I was doing like. No, no bad behavior. It's like, you know, but it's, it's, it's it's helped a little bit, but I, I definitely know like a lot of folks out there are, you know, sacrificing themselves on the altar of impact.

Yep. Yeah, it's tricky, man. Yeah. Like I said, I think it's, it, it definitely feels like we're at a time in history where there's a lot of stuff that hasn't. Yeah, we're kind of doing stuff that maybe hasn't been done to the level that we need, that we feel we need to do it. I don't know, it's. It would be. I think that's something I have to kind of keep reflecting on it. You know, we're, you know, like what's the Al Pacino in any given Sunday? You know, inch by inch, yard by yard. It's like we're in the trenches trying to get to that touchdown. But when we look back or when someone looks back in 100, a thousand years time and they'll and will be like, there'll be a tiny footnote in the history books are. And from sort of 2018 to 2025 there was this whole purpose movement and they kind of nailed it. But when, when you were right in.

The thick of it, you, I know.

You, you lose sight of, of maybe the context of what's going on. But it's work that needs to be done.

Yeah. I mean, because I, I feel like I've been doing purpose my whole life, but it hasn't been my whole life. Like nine years. But it's like, like I just, I, I think back to like 2015 and it feels like a million years ago. I'm like, I was a child back then.

Nothing about purpose years are like dog years.

Yeah. I've been immersed in like, you know, like you said, the inch by inch. Like okay, let's make this connection and do this program and bring these people together and.

Yeah. Slog. But wouldn't have it any other way. Not gonna go sell insurance.

Well, that's the thing, you know, it's once you. It's a one way street, isn't it? Once you've started to connect to that, that beginning of purpose, you. There's a really cool meme. I'll see cartoon image. I'll see if I can find it. I've got it somewhere on my computer and it's these two Buddhist monks and, and one of them is kind of like deep in contemplation meditation and the other one's kind of got one eye open and out of the corner of his mouth he Says to the other one, hey, have you, have you ever thought about quitting this for a life of mindless consumerism?

And that's this kind of thing sort of. You know, you look at the guy, Matthew Rickard, who's a Buddhist monk, who's been scientifically verified as the most content human on the planet because I guess he's the only person that's done all the tests on it. But you kind of ponder and go, well, he's a Buddhist monk who owns nothing and all he does is meditate and contemplate all day. Maybe there's something in that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I, I, I think that's an important path and I, I know it's not my path meaning like the.

Do you ever read or see the movie Razor's Edge?

W. Somerset Mom.

But so they made Bill Murray made it into a movie, but basically like the title is about like anybody can be enlightened on the mountain. The question is that can you be enlightened in the marketplace? And to do that is like walking the razor's edge. Because.

Ever like you know too, too much this way and you're burning yourself out, or you're, you know, being a self righteous spiritualist, too much that way and you're a consumer materialist. But like to actually hold the center so that the center can become more evolved, compassionate, soulful.

I get that. No, I totally get that. In fact, there's a couple of mates of mine, Carl Davidson and Michael Philpot, we just were emailing each other earlier on and the, the joke image, Carl's gone down this line of this chicken based cartoon which is quite, quite random, but the one today was this chicken sort of going, I've decided to become a hermit because the only way I can, I can think about kind of changing the world is to get away from all the people. And that's, that's a thing, you know, it's like actually, you know, is, is the best course of action to just go away and go and hide in the cave and go and contemplate and become at one with the universe, which is clearly what most of those truly spiritual humans do. But like you say, if you're not kind of in the, in the fray and you're not connected to those who are so far away from that, it's an interesting one. But then, but as we, I know there was, I think you, I'm pretty sure you posted this in the GPL group when you know, there's also an element of how dare us be these kind of Gurus that are telling people this is what you should be doing and you know, you all need to go and find your purpose.

Which I guess leads into the whole concept of free will and you know, who's what and you know. Yeah, there's, there's quite a lot of stuff you can kind of, quite a few rabbit holes you can go down there. Yeah, I kind of think on, on balance it's like, well, to have a life, you know, with I guess like the nuclear family unit or a cohabit with a couple of people who you deeply love and respect and want to have the best for doing that whilst also trying to be the best for your community, society, country, planet.

I think that's the thing. I mean, was it three or four years ago now a group of Japanese scientists landed a robot on an asteroid and you kind of go, well with that level of technology, what if, what if we attached a, the equivalent level of whether spirituality is the right word but humanity?

We have no idea, I don't feel how amazing a thing we could create.

With the technology we have at our disposal. Or we just go and blindly create AI robots that destroy us.

Yeah, the.

Our, our ability to invent things is astounding. And our wisdom and gravity to invent the right things is appalling.

I mean I, I'm, I'm like I, I love, you know, invention for invention's sake. Like science fairs.

Creativity.

Yeah, creativity. Like people just geek out like, oh, let's see if we can do this, let's see if you can do that. Like great. And we have so many low hanging fruit that can help so many people like pretty quickly. I mean your country, New Zealand is, is, has, has picked up a good amount of, of that fruit and it has just like created a.

A place where everybody can belong and feel supported. I mean, I'm speaking in broad generalizations of course. You know, I'm sure there's lots of people don't feel like they belong or they don't feel supported, but compared to where I'm at.

Right. Yep.

Decimated social safety net.

But that when, when, when we're attached to our purpose, if there is something that we can do to eliminate suffering, we do it.

Yep.

If we're not, we sit back and say not, it's not my problem.

So good on you and, and your people for like having a profound level of connection to purpose that you decided to ameliorate so much suffering. We're, we're pretty far behind the, behind the, the game right now.

I think that's a really interesting concept that, because I was listening to. I've been down a real Joe Rogan podcast, rabbit Hole this last couple of weeks and he was talking to. I can't remember who was talking to, but they ended up talking about Ray Kurzweil and the whole Singularity thing and you know, his, his attempt at creating.

You know, a Thousand Year Human. And, and when you listen to. I, I had. I mean, I'm briefly aware of the Singularity group and Ray Kurzweil and, and all that kind of stuff. But what was quite interesting in terms of, you know, integration of the shadow and, and why. Why are you on a path that you're on? His dad, Ray Kurzweil's dad died at the age of 50. Ish. So is part of Rakerswell's. I'm completely hypothesizing here is part of his desire to create a Thousand Year Human actually the lack of trauma work that he's done in releasing the trauma of his dad's dying ahead of his time. And he doesn't want that suffering to happen for anybody else. But has he done enough? I don't know. Presumably he's done a lot of personal growth development work with your records. Well, I'm sure you have done, but it's just interesting, like what's driving the desire that you have to create a thing. And I think that's what's quite scary when you look at the. There's a group of like Russian oligarchs who are, who are creating.

Like these first trans humans who are fully AI humans. And you kind of go, well, okay, who, who are these dudes and dudes. What, you know, are they totalitarian communist ideologues who, who will, you know, raise Stalin from the grave given the first opportunity? Or are they genuinely good humans who just want the best for humanity? Yeah, I don't know. Do they know? Does anyone know? And so, yeah, I wonder. I think it's the same with. When you look at the whole political stuff.

It'S almost like we need to create. Maybe this is where the GPL steps in. You know, every, every politician should have done a serious amount of personal development work.

Oh yeah.

To, you know, before they. They should be in a position to lead a country effectively. Billy Connelly's comment, the comedian. Any. Anyone who puts themselves up for election should automatically be discounted.

As being elect.

Truth.

Truth. Well, you bring up a good point around, you know, Kurzweil and.

I, I would even say like kind of, I think what you're pointing to is like.

Say Kurzweil and Shadow. Like, what you're pointing to is that, like, if we fully get what it means to be a human being, that means we've befriended death. That means that we.

Are not trying to escape anything, that we're not projecting our fears or our, Our sadness that our dad died too soon. On in generalizing on everybody else.

Now.

He's so interesting. I mean, just like anybody who's, who's got an immortality thing going on usually has not healed.

The trauma because they're like, you know, something's bad. I'm gonna get away from that thing. Yeah. Now, if he were to go into it, he'd probably meet this, you know, deep sadness and grief and potentially on the other side of that would.

Yeah.

Find some good use of life extension technologies and longevity and whatnot.

Did you, you ever see the Battlestar Galactica series? The.

Yep.

The most recent one. So.

In the recent one.

Okay, so I think this came out in the 90s with Edward James Olmos. And.

Very first episode, he says something to the fact of, like, you know, we've been fighting these Cylons and, you know, trying to survive and, and propagate our species. We never once asked us, asked ourselves, should we exist?

And, you know, that's a, That's a big, profound question. And.

I think most of us grew up like, yeah, of course we. We should exist. We are the apex predators or we are the, you know, whatever, smartest, biggest, fastest something or other. But if we get our purpose as individuals, as a species, yes, we should exist. But we exist as part of something that needs us to become ourselves. So are we, Are we stewards of this fragile ecology, this, this planet? Or, or are we trying to, like, escape it, like Musk and Kurzweil, which.

Yeah, that. I don't know, that, that whole stuff just kind of amuses me. It's like, yeah, we'll just, you know, yeah, we're done with this one. We'll go. We'll go find another one, start a new one.

So much easier than deal actually being responsible.

Yeah. Deal with your. Yeah. Like, step up, fix what's broken and take ownership on it. Yeah, I don't know. I think I, I agree.

It's, you know, those kind of level of humans. I don't, I've never met Elon Musk. I don't. Maybe he'll. He'll want to be on one of my pfp TVs who knows him and Ray. Sign him up.

Clearly. Very interesting. Humans though, you know. And I guess you look at like Steve Jobs and all the anecdotal stuff you hear about him, you know, he was a very driven guy who had very idiosyncratic ways of being and doing and I kind of think there's, yeah, there's an argument, you know, if you were truly on purpose, would you have invented the iPhone? I don't know. Like, was that his biggest contribution to humanity? Was there something untapped? I, I get, literally we will never know. But the thing, the thing I always think about is, you know, here's my iPhone with my Be the change. Well, there's no Planet B rapper, but what there's someone sitting now in, is it Cupertino somewhere down the road from, from you who's being charged with making one little widget in this thing go faster than the Samsung widget? Well, what if the guy or the girl in Korea working on the Samsung widget, what if they actually got together and, and I think this, this is the true purpose like uplift in terms of the organization is the competition is not selling more phones than, than the other. It's interpersonal or interhuman communication or even could be potentially interspecies communication. Who knows what we, what we'd be capable of making if there was an element of purpose and the competition was bigger than just selling more than the other people. And it's just really, I'd love to be able to get tapped into that network of these, these people who are creating the technologies and stuff to drive us forward as a species and know what, what work they do.

We, we just haven't done it in many contexts.

Yeah.

Like sequencing the genome was unprecedented. I mean all these people from all these different countries had to trust that the other, other people weren't gonna screw us. And we did. We each took our part and we sequenced the genome and like you know, something everyone thought was going to be hard or take a very long time. And, and I think that goes like when there is a truly transcendent purpose. Like if we could get the Android and the Apple people together say how can we truly empower like authentic connection, you know, probably going to need a Zuckerberg as well. But I guess how do we get people to show up best selves and to be fulfilled and enriched by connecting?

Yeah, totally. You know, totally.

That's the higher purpose of the technology business. Now we just need to enroll those CEOs on their board and their investors in that idea.

Yeah. Meanwhile those said same high performing employees are just Trying to make you all click on ads more quickly and more effectively, which is a bit of a sad place to be.

I think just when you were talking about, you know, apex predator, you know, we are it, as far as we know. That's the thing, you know, we, as far as we know with what we do know. I mean, I guess it could be the whole Douglas Adams hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy actually the dolphins are in control. I mean we, you know, I jest, but who knows? Like in a thousand years time, who knows? But as far as, as far as we do know, we, we are it. We are the peak consciousness. We are the only species that theoretically is truly aware of its actions and its inactions and what it can and can't do. So it kind of is on us. And that's why for me it does just keep. It's this balance of the individual, the individual acting in a collective manner for the betterment of both. So that both. And I think that for me is like the, the nexus point of purpose is you be the truest version of you bringing your gifts and genius to the planet to the benefit of the biggest number of people and things around you. And I just think that I keep coming back to it's. Is it. It kind of almost has to be inch by inch, yard by yard, individual, individual, and, and we just create this new normal. But I guess it's. Yeah. Have we got enough time on our side before really goes wrong?

Yeah, I mean that, that's, that's another question. But I think the.

I forget who I think it was is Barry or somebody had asked this person like, like Bill Morris, I think it interviewed, I think, or something or Thomas Berry, maybe I get him confused all the time. But he said, you know, what do you, what do you say to the environmentalists who say it's too late, you know.

And he's like, we don't have the right to ask that question. Like, that's not what it means to be a human being. What it means to be a human being is did I put forth and show up when I, when I could? Did I meet humanity where I was at and do my best? That's the only question worth asking because we'll never know. Reality is an urgent dynamic. It could literally just be the next corporate exec that, that starts her own business to do something good that tips humanity towards the sustainable generative future. So it's.

We'Re definitely like knocking down dominoes in the right direction.

And it's important to ask the Big question. We should spend more of our time. Like, how can we activate more purpose?

Totally. I think it's. Yeah, because you're a former rugby player as well, and I googled it once. Like, the fastest try ever scored in rugby is something like. It might even be like a second or two seconds. Like, literally from the kickoff. Ball goes deep, defender fumbles, it goes to the winger, scores in the corner. And the context of that is when. When you're playing the game, you've got 80 minutes. For those of you who don't do rugby, we've got 80 minutes to score more points. In your position, you're one point down with. Theoretically, if you have two seconds on the clock, you can still win.

Yeah.

And. And I think that's. It can become overwhelming. It's like, oh, there is so much, like, where do we start? There's the climate, there's society, there's. There's like a thousand things that are oppressing me or I'm. I don't know what to do, but it's like, you just need two seconds. In two seconds, you can score the try that wins the game, figure out the play, execute it with the right reason behind it.

Yeah, we can do this.

Yeah.

And we've seen our. You know, it's not just rugby. It was Michael Jordan, Joe Montana. I mean, yeah, these folks pulled out of their keisters with two seconds. I mean, yeah, we can do it. And we can do it. I think it was Michael Mead. I know we're over time, but Michael.

Mead, if you're still good for time, I'm still good for time, so.

But he said basically, like, the moment of collective soul planetary transformation is going to be when everybody risks everything at once.

Like, you and I have been, like, chipping away. But our question that I think we should be holding is how do. How do we create the space frame the question so that everybody says, yes, I'm willing to do life differently. Like, I. I get that even the best of times. This sucked for me. My wife left me, I was working too hard, you know, gained 40 pounds, hated everybody, was jealous of all my peers, Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Smoking too much, all that. Like, if we can all just say, it's all made up, let's just do it different. It's. Yeah, we have enough stuff to go around without destroying the planet. Putting on airs about who's better and this and that and who deserves this. Like, if we can. If we can, you know, hold the tension long enough. You know, Meat says this like, bird of good omen presents itself. It comes forth and says, yeah, yeah, follow me. And then we go. But it, it's going to take us getting a lot more people up to the platform, up to the edge to jump.

So one theory that I've been pondering on, so it would be this. So let's say midnight tonight, there's a letter that gets pushed under everyone's door, pretty much, let's call it in the western democratized world. And then the letter, you'll get it and it says, hey. Dear Tim, dear Brandon, tomorrow morning you don't go to work. You, you're having a week's holiday, don't worry, it's all covered, it's all good. In seven days time you're gonna have a second letter put on your doorstep and it will explain how the new system works. And so everyone has a seven day holiday. We have great time, obviously, Corona permitting, you know, meet responsibly to 2 minute distance. We go and have a great time, we just go and relax for a week. And then my, my theory for the new, the new way forward, hearing it here, I'm pretty sure I've not said this live on the Internet to anyone. So the, the theory is that kind of like a universal basic income is given to every human and it would be, what's the word look like, kind of mortalized to how many years you got left? So they go, hey Brandon, you are in your 40s.

We've done the, we've done the, the research, you should get to 90. Therefore you have that amount of money now in your bank account. So if you don't want to work, you're good. If you want to go work, if you want to go and do stuff, that's cool. But you don't get any more money from us. So if you go and invest, if you go and put it all in the casino and you lose it, that's tough.

Yeah.

When you die, instead of the money going to your kids or your family, the money just goes back into the big kitty. So every day when a new child is born, they have enough money in their bank account to get them through to the end of the days. So that's, that's my one, one big ass theory on how to create that kind of system. Change where everyone has enough, you know, and the housing would be just like, that's just given to you. Don't you have to worry about that? So there's a good guy, Rutger Bregman I think he's called, he's he's done a couple of books on sort of positive, I guess, trying to show that humans aren't, Aren't. Aren't complete moptards, as a lot of people like to think that every human's just evil and going after themselves. But his whole. He's got it. He sort of breaks down the UBI way and sort of how you can make that happen. So that's, that's my theory. Like, to create a new system where you don't. You don't have to have this artificial competition and scarcity of a society. And then everyone's just allowed to get on and be the best version of themselves.

I love it.

So there you go.

It makes, it makes me want to read a nice short, like, kind of a short story about this, like, and how. And how it worked.

There's a book called Sum by David Eagleman. He's a neuroscientist, right. And it's basically fiction. It's like he just envisions these, like, alternate universes with different laws of physics and different conditions.

And I could see, like, if you, if you cracked open a couple beers, I think you would have a really good.

I guess, would you call it, like, alternative future?

And that is. And that may indeed be. What's missing is like, people need to imagine that it's possible. Like, oh, yeah, kind of see that happening. Like, all this money right now lives in these, you know, 1500 bank accounts. Everybody else has got nothing or debt. Let's just take it from there. Distribute it this way. Yeah, those guys are still fine, by the way.

Everyone's doing okay. Yes.

There's two parts that I remember going to a TEDx event years ago and there was a guy, Stuart Candy, who's a futurist, and his, his. The one comment in his talk that kind of blew my mind is he said, you know, the future is not linear. There are as many potential futures as you can imagine. And you just kind of go, no. No one's ever actually told me that before. You just presume, I am on a path. The sun comes up tomorrow, I go to work tomorrow. It is linear. And this is the thing. It's like, no, we can create any potential future that we collectively come together to create. And then the second part of that is whenever I. Every now and then we'll watch a game show on tv, just when I'm stopping for lunch or someone just put some junk on in the background and you kind of go, well, this game show, this person can maybe win £20,000 or $20,000. That money doesn't exist if, you know, if he wins it or she wins it or doesn't win it. The money was kind of. It was just game show money. And it's like. But that's like the world we live in as well. It's just game show money. We can just make up this money and give it to people.

The insanity of the system that we're in. Yeah. It's like, let's just go and make a new one tomorrow.

I know, I know. Like the.

I, I have heartbreak that all. So much human potential is wasted. Just like trying to like scramble for crumbs to keep the freaking lights on. I mean, like, it's not necessary. And it is heartbreaking and it is criminal.

We have enough. We have enough. Maybe not enough. Not enough fish in the sea, but we, we do have just about everything else we need.

It's honesty times.

It is. All right, so we'll wrap it up. What's your. If someone. If someone who's listening to this and they're, they're us based and they're either an individual or an organization who is, you know, purpose. Curious. Obviously. Go and check out Brandon, connect with him on LinkedIn and all that stuff. But first practical step for someone who's like, okay, yeah, I, I kind of see this purpose, you know, I mean, I wanna, I wanna get my surfboard ready. I wanna ride this one. What's some practical first step for someone who's. Yeah. Not doesn't know where to start?

Yeah. Well, if, if it's your own personal purpose, I would, I would work with a guide. If you can afford it, work with a guide.

There are also purpose discovery programs you can do that are a lot less expensive. So a guide might run you a few thousand dollars, whereas a program might be a few hundred.

Because that really needs to take precedent. So I can provide recommendations. So can Tim. If you go to globalpurposeleaders.org, you'll find all of our guides and many of them run their own programs too.

If you already have a deep sense of purpose, you know in your bones that like this is what's up and you want to activate it across your organization. I do that work. That's actually my favorite. So you can go to unitylab co and just. My regular website is brandonpeale.com and check me out there.

Nice. I shall put those in the links. Right. I've also just put a link to one of your books, the Purpose Field Guide. Your. I've read your Planning on Purpose Book that was very cool where I think you. You kind of actually go more into the systemic stuff rather than the sort of the individual stuff, but super cool. Hey, man, it's been really, really cool to hang out with you on here. I hope you enjoyed it. Hope some people listening get something out of it.

Cool. Yeah, just making sure those links are in there. Awesome, man. Hey, look, keep doing what you're doing. I know it's. It's you're doing some hard yards in the States with, you know, the COVID stuff going on over there, but keep doing what you're doing, man, because the world. The world needs you.

Likewise, Tim.

Cool. All right, man.

Good to see you, brother.

Catch you. Hey, well, thank you all for tuning in. Those of you that did, whether you were tuning in on.

Yeah. LinkedIn or on the podcast or on YouTube. Yeah, thanks. If you're stuck on knowing where to start your purpose journey, reach out something like Brandon, I'll make sure I put a link to the GPL as well, some of the notes. But yeah, thanks for tuning in. Look forward to seeing you next week, I think. Catch up.

And that's a wrap. Hey, thank you so much for listening into my podcast. I hope you found it informative and inspirational. I'd love to know where you are on your purpose journey. And if you have any specific questions or people you'd like me to interview to help you on that journey, please do let me know. Also, feel free to connect with me on other social media platforms. You can check out all those links in the show notes below. And if you want to see how I might be able to help you specifically on your purpose journey, you can go and check out my website, www.growgood.co or drop me a line by email, timogrogood.co. all those links will also be in the show notes. I would genuinely love to hear from you. But anyway, until next time, go well and keep seeking that purpose fuel performance in your life.