#25 Monique Kelly - Wao! Revology man!

Foreign.

And welcome to Purpose Fueled Performance with me, your host, Tim Jones, the grow good guy.

So there we are. Apparently we are live. I will just open up LinkedIn on my other tab on the Interwebs just to make sure that we are truly LinkedIn living, but we should be. We'll presume that we are. So hello people of the Interwebs, if you're listening in live, if you're listening to the recording, thank you anyway. And so PFP TV episode number eight. And this week I have Monique Kelly with me. So yeah, Monique, who are you? What are you doing?

Kia ora, everyone. So Monique Kelly.

Grew up in Southland actually. And then I've sort of gone away and come back in the journey or back towards the south of the south island. And the journey has been interesting. So started my career in international law over in the UN with international labor organization, looking at decent work and.

How that sort of social justice side of the employment sector, which has been really interesting. And then came back to New Zealand around about seven years ago now almost eight, with my husband and my two children and was lucky enough to work remotely still for the UN and still am a little bit. And we also set up a company called Revology, which is a natural fiber composite materials company which has a strong focus on developing new materials, but also on responsible consumption and production practices. If I can put in a sustainable development goal into that one.

Nice.

And on the back of that, we really wanted to have an impact on the community from a give back point of view. So we set up a charitable trust called WOW with some of the team members going, well, how can we use our skills and expertise to help our community to transition to a regenerative future? And so we set up wow in 2018 and those sort of three hacks now keep me very busy.

Nice. It seems to be a common theme amongst good people doing amazing work that they're involved in lots of things, which I suppose perhaps suggests that there's lots of things that could be made better in the world or is it just, I don't know, is it part of the mindset of people? And I, I, I put myself probably in that boat as well. I'm currently working on sort of two or three big projects that could probably each have their own full time commitment.

I think it's so interesting because this year I'd be really going back and trying to discover a little bit about working more efficiently because people kept on telling me you're doing too many things, you got to fall over. And it was actually when I truly started to look and discover myself. That I decided, well, and others have decided that I'm an activator, which means that I like doing things. If I, If I'm not doing, then that's when I get stressed. So I'm a.

You're an instigator.

I need to actually be constantly having a project and doing things, and that feeds me.

Yep, I'm. I'm very much the same. I'm very much a starter, less so good as a finisher, but I'm a really good starter and connector and can kind of go, you need to talk with them because some cool stuff will happen. Like, go at it. Send me a postcard when you've done something amazing. Yeah. And I think that that's just. It's an interesting reflection. I think perhaps the scene that you and I are sort of both heavily involved in. We, we need starters because we don't know what it's going to look like when it is finished. And those people will come in, you know, when it's time for them to come in, I think. But no, sorry, you go.

I was just thinking, you know, innovation has been such part of my life in the past, in particular since we've got back and founded Revology. And I think that the whole design process and we are having to, you know, we've got this pathway, we're going towards this future future that we want to build, but we don't quite know how to get there. And we need to innovate a lot and rethink and redesign and go back and forward and test and try. And that's. I, I find that really exciting. And that comes from a startup mentality as well. When you're a starter or a startup type of person, you. That's what drives you. Is that innovation and constantly questioning, is this the way to do it? Is this not so? It's a, A. It's a very interesting era that we live in that we can actually experiment on a social front as well.

And it's. We've got our first comment in from a, From a live listener, which is going to be. It's an interesting one. We'll bring this one up in a second. But yeah, I guess it's that balance of needing starters, initiators, people who see that things could be better, but at the same time not throwing out, I guess, the baby with the bathwater where there are. Maybe it's not the whole thing that needs to be changed potentially. It might just be, you know, the intent behind it or the way it's delivered. And I think it's that real balance that's something that I've definitely struggled with. Initially. When I first got into the sort of do good scene, it was kind of like, tear it all down. We need to start from scratch and, you know, build it all again. But, you know, we have got to where we are and it's not been all bad. But on that note, here we go. So the first question is from John Benshop, who I don't know John, but he. His comment is the UN initiative is about creating communist states. So with firsthand experience of working for the UN and bringing some of their goals to life. Yeah. What's the thoughts on that?

Really funny anecdote, but when I first went into the office and there was still that remnants of.

Each country has a certain number of delegates and they're very particular. Particular about making sure that it's quite balanced. But one of the officers was still. Because you have a. In certain positions, you have a permanent post until you retire, was still very much.

Put there by the KGB and will stay there until he retires completely. So it was quite a. That's a funny incident. But, you know, I think when the UN actually really got up and running, it was Post World War I was the league of Nations. And the whole foundation behind that was. And this is where the International Labor Organization came about, was around establishing a social floor for employment because there was massive.

Human cost to how we were. How that economic system was actually running, and the amount of child labor, toxic substances that were being used, the recognition that when you are working, you need to have a holiday. So some of those. First that social flaw. And they recognized too, that in order for us to operate as a global community, we actually needed to have.

A really set form of rules around how we treated our employees. And there are differences. There's definitely differences between each country. But it was that need to actually look at it from we need to prepare, protect people in that economic sphere. And then the UN itself, when it was set up, it was again post another crisis and this time the huge conflict with World War II. And from the need to protect our economic rights and that economic ecosystem, we suddenly went after that huge, massive upheaval going from a human perspective, we need to protect human rights. And they were the next step up in a global consensus around what we needed to protect. And I find it really interesting that now we're sort of stepping up to that next circle, which is that, you know, when you look at sustainability, that's very Much at the outside of it. And what permeates everything is in the understanding around environmental rights and their intrinsic, you know, their intrinsic right of the environment to be protected and preserved and regenerated. So an interesting angle. Thank you, John. I would. I think there is definitely political elements within the U.S. but the great thing about us is that there are diverse political elements and they each keep each other in check.

Nice.

There you go.

So, I mean, how did you. How did you get into. I mean, growing up in Southland? Whereabouts in Southland? For the. For the Kiwis that tune in in Invercargill, in Invgiggle itself. I mean, invigiggle to the U.N. i mean, no offense to Invigiggle Invercargill, but I can't imagine you were the 10th of the Invercargillites to go to the UN. You were potentially one of the first. So how did that come about?

I actually don't think I was. I think that Invercargill was an incredible place to grow up in because we. It was a small enough community to have all of the opportunities that we could have, the education. The schools down there are fantastic. And I was provided with so many opportunities to go on exchanges, to attend different things. So that sort of built up my.

And it's a really quite egalitarian. Like, I think I came out of it knowing that I could relate to anyone. I could talk to anyone. I could see.

Social justice in a really tangible way was sort of my focus when I went to law school, was really around, or I became a lawyer because of social justice. And I think that my role of advocacy really appealed to me. And not all spheres of law fit within that vision, but definitely that international realm did. So it was a. It was a really clear path, actually. And then actually getting into the ILO was I prompted luck a little bit by rocking up and saying, I'll work for you for free as an intern for a couple of months. And because I really wanted to. To be part of that ecosystem, I guess, for a bit and managed to actually get employed afterwards.

So, yeah, I'd hardly call that luck. That's you. That's completely creating your own opportunity by putting yourself out there and with some intent. And there's some great correlations between. I teach this in a couple of my trainings on one on positive mindset and one sort of around sales mindset. That is, there's a guy, Professor Richard Wiseman, who's done. He's a professor of luck, and he did this study that people who are generally More optimistic and open to opportunity, oddly enough, consider themselves luckier, which means they then tend to either genuinely find more opportunities or they're just more open to them. Whereas if you consider yourself to be unlucky, if you, if you'd considered yourself to be not so lucky, you would have gone, well, there's no point me asking them to volunteer because they'll probably just say no because they probably have someone already in mind. So for me, I think it's a really key. I think if you're, if you're that activator, instigator type person, I think you have that in bucket loads because it's like, well, what's the worst that can happen? I'll send them an email, who knows? And cool stuff happens. You end up working in the us. So were you in New York? Working? Ultimately, Geneva. Sorry.

Yeah.

Well, it's not. Not too shabby and it's interesting because.

There'S is a huge amount of, you know, within the. Even just in Geneva, there's all the different agencies that we were around. So the World Health Organization.

Yep.

I looked at them through my window. You had the Red Cross, which was just down the road. Unhcr, the World Trade Organization was not far away. So you sort of, you know, you went on your walk at lunchtime to get a bit of a year and you were suddenly in this very international.

Realm and with people doing really interesting things. So it was. But it was a great experience.

Nice. What sort of work were you doing for the UN over there?

So my first job, and this is, I think, where I really got. I got the most incredible opportunity. And again, that's about pushing those doors open. But I got given 19 conventions and 21 recommendations on occupational safety and health to distill, because we were looking at that point about how to have a better system of management for occupational safety and health at the international level. And they said, this is just crazy because we're siloing out. You know, there was.

Old treaties from back in 1919 about phosphorus or lead or the employment of women at night time, which we'd sort of gone beyond.

Yeah.

I think that having a gender lens on particular legislation was kind of outdated in the 60s, let alone the early 2000s.

Yeah, yeah. Were there phrases about give, you know, subjects of women maybe getting the vote one day we will consider them to be employees.

Must be crazy. It was a grouping usually of women and children together.

Right.

So there was a convention on the work of women and children. And you're going like, yes. Okay. So we've intellectually, I think we.

Little pat on the head. Come on, come on. Women and children.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Paternalistic. Turner. Victorian. Come along, little ladies and scamps.

Exactly, exactly. You can just imagine the hats and.

The gloves and cane, monocle.

Yeah. But I think that gave me that experience of having to go through all of those treaties and all of them and distill it down into something. Gave me a really good overview too on a whole systems approach to a topic. So out of that we engaged with the different members. So in the ilo, it's very different because we have employers, workers and governments. It's a tripartite system, so each of them have their an equal say within these actually developing treaties. So it's a quite a unique organization and it was one of the first actually established. So it was established in 1919 under the Treaty of Versailles. So once I had that experience under my belt, we did a very similar thing on migrant labor. And looking at that through a systems lens, big picture and saying, well, where are we at at the moment? Where have we been and where should we go forward on that, on that big scale? And I've sort of, I think that that background has allowed me to come back and look at it on a, on a much smaller scale, but in a really relevant manner, looking at systems within communities, which is.

Yep. And what that sort of global, global trend is. So I mean, was that, do you think that was a path that you were kind of destined to go on or was there like a key influencer, like a parent or school teacher or someone in the community who, I mean, because even, I mean, you and I about the same age. For me, that definitely felt like there was no influence in, you know, I came to this kind of purpose piece like, well, 2013, it was like when I first started thinking about, wow, there's like, there's things that we could change in the world. But you're kind of thinking of that as a school, you know, school aged human. Yeah. Was it, do you think that was kind of innate to you or was there some, some kind of external input that made you go, hey, actually like, I mean, because you could have just gone down corporate law and you know, be on that path to be a high paying lawyer and, and just, you know, suing people or whatever. But you clearly chose a different path. So. Yeah. What, what was that?

I would have done finance and law if I was doing that and that would have been a really good income. No, I.

I think I always had a very strong sense of fairness. Things had to be fair and just. And when I remember sixth form actually and this was kind of a real switch on for me and the massacre in Cambodia and I don't know if you remember the Killing Field. Yes, there was a movie, it was just horrendous. And we had this six form English project at the time. It was part of a major. Part of the internal assessment process was a year long research project into a particular topic and I chose the Killing Fields and I did a lot of research into the background and what happened from a political level but also bringing it to a narrative by taking the voice of someone who had gone through it. And it was sort of looking through a child's position perspective of it and my teacher, I didn't get the marks that I wanted and one of the reasons why my teacher had explained and written down why she had taken away marks was because that she didn't find the topic relevant to me. And I was like, oh obviously we need to sit down and have a talk.

Yeah, you clearly don't know me very well because I've just researched this for a year.

I think that that is coming from the perspective of a teacher who has students and probably hadn't. I don't know if she'd been confronted with someone who was coming to her with such a subject and as a confronting subject with such passion and probably the. I think in New Zealand at that time, especially when, well, having that clear this is what I want to do.

Was not perhaps.

That well known, but I do, I sort of almost feel there were two moments in my life where I really started to take blinkers off young, very young, you know, at that young age where social justice was really important. And I think that my mother had a really strong role to play in that because she was very much. She was a social worker in Invercargill and she has a very strong sense of fairness and justice. So I think I probably that her influence would have been strong there.

And then it wasn't. So my focus was really on social justice and I looked at it from a perspective of making sure things were fair for people. And it wasn't until I.

Started to look at my very narrow role in sustainable development and mine was focused on decent work and that employment sphere and I didn't really think that of my place within that whole sustainable development area until it was 2018, beginning of 2018 and there was a click with myself and Anna Craig, who's a dear friend and she was working, we were working together at the time and we'd Gone to see a film and it was Jeremy Rifkin's Third Industrial Revolution and it suddenly just switched going. I'd sort of pushed back all thoughts of.

The climate action and because it was. I think it was too scary and I just didn't want to go there and I knew as soon as I started to look into things in more detail I would have to get a. Involved and I.

The blanket I was.

And I was, I was really terrified me actually it really did. So I think subconsciously I'd pushed it out of the way and this gave me a different view on it saying actually this is an opportunity to really make that next step up in the evolution of us as a species. Really?

Yep.

If we get it right.

Nice. 100% I totally agree. Yeah it's interesting because I think I probably generally err towards more environmental causes than social.

I wonder, I wonder if that was also maybe like growing up in idyllic Invercargill, Southland, you know, beautiful outdoors on your doorstep. Queenstown, Wanaka, Central Otago. What environmental crisis? I mean I guess other than sort of ty smelter belching stuff out down the road, um, maybe perhaps the environmental thing just wasn't, wasn't so much on your radar locally because theoretical, theoretical clean.

Green New Zealand it was and I think too when I was in Geneva working in the Alps and a lot of people say oh don't you miss it? And I really don't because there were times within the year in particular in winter where we lived on one side of a mountain and I looked over to the mountain which is probably about 30k away. So when it's mountain it's a huge thing. You couldn't see it. You couldn't see it because of the pollution in the air and there's a constant haze over Europe in general and you know, you look, even look going down into you, you sort of fly down. I remember flying into LA as a 15 year old and I couldn't believe the sort of that layer of pollution that you were actually flying down into and being on.

I think, I think that was sort of the first indication why I had a son and he was very asthmatic and we couldn't have.

He. He was constantly sick up until the time we came to New Zealand in Tawanaka and then he's never had a crisis again.

Oh wow.

So the health impact on people is massive. Massive.

Yeah. But you think Geneva would be way cleaner than anywhere. You just have to. I've been to Switzerland a few times but I guess never for Long enough to, to see that. But again, it's, it's interesting sort of the marketing on a country level. It's like you'd think because I've been to Davos a few times. Obviously not for the big international Grand Prue Bar conference, but I've been to the ski resort there and it used to be it was a tuberculosis center where people who had tuberculosis were sent because of the clean mountain air. And they, they have the. What do they call like the cranking house or whatever it was called, where they'd have windows open on both sides and the clean mountain air would be. So maybe they didn't cure them, they just gave them something else.

Well, you would have to go up and you do need to go up. So to get him to just alleviate his asthma, we would go up to 22,000 miles meters plus just to get out of the smog. And you really had to go up quite a long way to do it. But there was another one that, that also just as we were leaving in 2014 and it really. This has slammed home to me how real climate change is. So we lived on this mountain and it was. You can you see it? It was actually one of the spots on the Tour de France two years ago that they went over and it's a forest and totally forested, just close to Ex les and.

Because of climate change. And it's. There was this bug that had come and it had migrated from the south and it had destroyed every single.

Bui as a type of like a French box hedge. That type of plant covered our mountain along with another taller tree. This insect went and ate the entire mountain. I went up and I drove up and their webs covered the road. I just cried as I went up because it had killed that plant. I don't know when it will come back. And that has now because of the heat waves coming through and I had to live through a few of them. When it's, you know, 40 plus degrees in summer there, how long is it going to take until that. Those bushes that once sort of protected and kept that earth very moist until they actually go up in flames. It's just tinder now. It's really. That was. We lived on that mountain, so we would have been gone if it had.

Yeah. So that maybe really real. It bore home that environmental side of it. Yeah. The more, you know, I'm so. I'm certainly not an environmental expert to the depth that a lot of people are, but it does seem that soil erosion and soil health is something that, I mean Most people just aren't aware of, but I think I've heard somewhere on the interwebs. So it needs to be fact checked. But I believe the stat is it's like the US has got 60 more harvests in terms of like the corn and the grain that they harvest before the soil is, just has no nutrients left. And you kind of go that's, that's not many. So it's, you know, within potentially decades that the soil has just been ripped of its nutrients. And you kind of go, well currently you know that that industry is feeding a large amount of the US population but also its beef and dairy industry. So if that collapses, you know, the whole economy tanks. So there's a really cool camera. If I've mentioned this guy's blog on here before, but he's called Dr. Tim Morgan and his pod podcast, his blog is called Surplus Energy Economics. I'll put a link to it shortly. And what he talks about as the key thing that we all need to get our heads around is, is not the economy. Because the economy is just basically a made up concept of shared value being described or attributed to money. You know, so we, we have a, a $10 note, we both agree it's worth $10, there's a value exchange. But what he's saying is it's, it's not the money in the economy, it's the amount of energy it takes to run the economy, for the economy to run. So he calls it the energy cost of energy extraction. And what he's saying is, you know, we're, we're. The money is, is all just smoke and mirrors. Like you can just print money out of nowhere like that, that's easy. But when you look at the energy that we need to run the system, all of a sudden the economy actually doesn't stack up. And then you, so then you, so you layer that on top of environmental degradation at a level of the soil which most people just don't really think or care about. Yeah, it's. Well, we should just stop now, really, shouldn't we?

Do you know what I think is really exciting? Because I think that the 1930s saw that huge dust bowl coming through in the US but it's coming back to New Zealand agriculture and, and.

One of my. So back. And this is why we live in Invercargill on my mother's side. They were some of the first dairy farmers in Edendale, which is where sort of that dairying industry started to really bloom. But there was an element in the soil that was missing called Selenium, which meant that the health of the animals started to deteriorate because they would lambs who don't have enough, they lose their legs and they sort of look like they are tetraplegic really or paraplegic.

So they had decided that they had to have an input in there to improve the soil. And I love the concept of soil as a metaphor for all that agricultural.

Wording around our economy. Because the way that I see it is. And if anybody wants to read this good book, because I'm going to go off and do a spin about fungus now and mushrooms.

Oh yes, yes. What's the guy called?

There's a book called the Hidden Life of Trees and there's also the Mother Tree. And the Mother Tree was written by Susan Simard and she is a Canadian scientist who's working in forest and is actually recorded in data. This is scientifically proved that trees communicate through fungus. And the importance of soil and communication. And if we look at it from a human perspective, even for that, from that economic perspective, if we take the soil as sort of, we've got the tangibles which are infrastructure that we need to make the economy run really well. So energy, resilience, digital affordable housing, we need to have quality education, we need to have all these things that in the soil as solid elements, but we also need that intangible. So that's our fungus and that's our relationships and connection with each other for it to really run. And. But the whole objective of that soil is to help nourish our community and have it thrive. So then you look at capital in a very different way. As you know, capital is fertilizer and fertilizer that goes onto the soil to help us to grow we what that economy looks like. So if we take in a really good regenerative farming system, they've got a lot of diversity in there, a lot of different crops. And the more diverse you diversity you've got and the more resilience you have to feed and nourish your community. And then we've got to look at also from a perspective of making sure that some of the produce that we are producing needs to be exported to be able to get us in goods and services, products that we don't have available on our part of the farm or part of the environment. But we also need to make sure that the priority is giving to help to nourish and look after our community first and foremost. And so going away from an extractive economy to a more regenerative one. And I think that those learnings that we're primary sector actually doing a good job at fronting up and saying okay we actually need to get some to flip here.

It's a really hard one but every sector is going to have to do it. So 100 the language I think is really good because we can understand and.

Everyone can relate to a field in New Zealand.

Yep. And that's all be that concept of sort of biomimicry at that systemic level. There's another. Have you come across Paul Stamets? He's done a couple of good. He's like a real. He's the big mushroom guy in the US and he's done at least one if not more podcast episodes with Joe Rogan and he's big into the research of mushrooms. Exactly what you said. That kind of the fact that the fungi in general are hyper connected and that's the pathways for you know, sort of that communication structure within. Within nature. But also the, the health benefits that the spiritual connection to higher planes of consciousness that can be achieved through digestion of mushrooms and other health benefits of them. Yeah, there's some just on that. There's a whole section of commentary but I guess this probably segues quite nicely into you know, the rivology stuff that you're doing and bringing these concepts of. And I guess also just to comment. Yeah. That. That regeneration and I think there's two really good examples that I can see in the minute. One is the New Zealand Merino company who are making some really, really big strides towards wanting to become a wholly regenerative organization. And Sinle as well, who you know, they're not there yet but they. Their long term sustainability plan is that they become a regenerative company. And I think you're right. It's kind of. I think there's gonna be some really big, big turnarounds in that primary sector because I think they're all. They're now clearly realizing from the research that we're running out of Runway in terms of our soil and natural sort of structures that once they're gone we ain't getting them back so quickly. And it's something that you know, I talk about in a lot of my work is if your business is even slightly extractive or if you as a human are even slightly extractive. The net endpoint is extraction which leads to destruction. So we have to be thinking in terms of that regenerative thing. I guess it's like. I mean I haven't been scuba diving for ages but it's that whole, you Know when you go scuba diving, take only pictures, leave only bubbles. And it's that kind of mindset. We need business to be and individuals to be thinking about. And I guess you're a really great example of how you've, you know, you're not just. I think there's a lot of people who talk about we need to do more good. But you're one of the people who's actually like, okay, I'm actually going to put my sort of money literally where my money where my mouth is and start a business or around better design principles and. Yeah, so. So how did, how did that come about? So you working. Working for the UN in Geneva. I presume that's where you met your husband who is French or is he Swiss French? I can't remember.

He's French. He's French.

French proper French.

He's French French. He's definitely very French.

Love the French.

I do too. I'm born on my birthday's Bastille Day. I'm. I love France. Used to go to France for a lot of school holidays. My parents hate France because they ended up having some bad business deals with a couple of French people. But I'm like, I had great times. Jambon and frites, you know, good weather. It's like. And they have a big party on my birthday. What's not to like about France?

I love the French attitude as well. I really do.

I do as well. It's just kind of like boff.

Yes. It can be so it's almost like pig and mud. Because they love, love, love to complain. So. But they love it to the point of where it's actually not complaining anymore.

Ends up in philosophy. Yeah, it.

So does it so does they know. I would say that they're very critical thinkers. These are very positive way of saying. And they will always find the exceptions to the rule. Yeah, but. So that was ravology began with my husband coming over here and his skills are in composite fibers and he really, he really wanted to set up a business that was based on innovative natural fiber composites. So looking at how we can replace natural fibers to. In products that we would usually use carbon fiber or glass fiber. And it has.

So we were really lucky in that he was able to sell off. He's a startup, serial startup as well. And we were able to sort of finance a lot of the R D into.

Pushing and advancing the technical materials going into the future. You know, there are taking that energy model there. We still need to be able to create energy. So how can we Create. Create it with lesser footprint. The emissions profile for natural fiber composites is much less than for the other composites. So there's a real, there's a real niche or not in just a niche, but there's a huge potential to begin to use natural fibers of and bio resins over sort of more of those based on fossil fuel anyway. So the that R D side of things, that would be more Alex and he would be the one to talk to more about that.

Yeah, but high level. So how does anything get finished in your house? You got to sort of startup agitator.

Did you even manage to finish cooking a meal together? It's like, no, let's just test stuff and try stuff.

I think that one of the things about both Alex and I is that we are extremely good at. We're really stubborn. We are really, really, really stubborn. So we kind of, I would say pig headed to the point of just when we've got a project, we gnaw at it like a bone until it's really, really done. So that would be another one of our. I don't know if it's a challenge or a weight.

Depends who you're asking.

I think that we, we truly believe that this is a great idea and we're lucky to have the children. We've got two kids who are at a age where we can put more time into this and we get them involved as well. Our son is a budding designer. So I was helping with the design of the bike project at age 14, doing CAD designs and stuff. So but that was. So there's the research and development into the fiber or the natural fiber which we call the green lab.

And then there's the second part is you can't have innovation without actually putting it into application. So when you are innovating and researching, you actually need to have a real tangible outcome of that. You need to think about how best to use that product. So it's starting first from a circular design model. It's well, what type of materials do we want to put into the system? Because we know eventually they either need to be able to be recycled again and again and again or they need to be able to go back into the ground without causing harm. So that whole philosophy around the design then came into it and what products make sense.

Our first object in that line was for this project was a chair. Because a chair is something that you hand down through generations. So if you get it right, it's actually the lifetime of.

You always have a carbon footprint for the product. So how can you lessen that carbon footproduct? By making it last a long time, be easily repaired and, and then looking at also that product stewardship. So we've designed it so that we will take back and we can put back the materials back into our system where it's much more difficult when you're innovating with new materials is it doesn't fit within a classic. You can't just take it down to your local waste recycler. So that was really challenging for us thinking about, well, how can we overcome that and, and stand behind our ethos. Yep, basically.

And then the third pillar was the connecting with like minded people. And that was the store that we opened six weeks private to the first lockdown last year.

Winning. Yeah.

And that was, that was just, that was a great year. It was actually a great. There were huge opportunities that came out of that one. So I will say that it wasn't the year that we expected, but it was a good one.

But on balance, turned out right.

Yeah. And that is the, the sole focus of that story. Store is actually about mainstreaming sustainability. So it flavors everything that we have in the store. We have a really clear matrix about what type of, who the designers are who are coming in. It's obviously our products, but also products from other people and, and then telling their story. So coming in and being able to read, you know, who made this and why they made it and what they made it for.

It'S such, it's, you know, if you went back 100 years and you explained to, you know, your great grandparent this idea, we've got this revolutionary idea, we're going to create a chair that we're going to hand down from generation to generation.

It's like, yeah, we've been doing that for the last 200 years. What, what are you, what are you on about? It's like there's some part of it that's, it's seemingly so obvious that you just make. But I guess this is the sort of.

Consumer capitalist world that we're in, which is about fast growth, fast fashion, fast furniture. You know, having worked in the medical device industry, where they look at the human and literally go, well, we need to be thinking of their sort of developmental stages and what can we sell to them before they're born? What do we sell to them when they're born? What do we sell to them from zero to one, you know, all the way through to when they die? How do we get the last, like, can we sell funeral services or coffins? And it kind of feels like the wider world has just gone, well, how many chairs can we sell someone on average over the lifetime? Let's make it. I don't know, let's pick 10. 10 seems like a good. If we get 10 chairs per person, that seems like we're on a good growth phase instead of just going, actually, granddad's chair looks pretty comfy. If I reupholster it, I've turned proper middle aged. I know I knew that I was like middle aged when I liked. I started liking American Pale Ale. And then I realized I actually really did quite like Neil Young and his music. But I think the, the crowning moment of middle ageness is I. This is like my, my guilty pleasure is Salvage Hunters on tv, where the guy, Drew Pritchard goes around Wales. And I think it's also partly a bit of Hiraeth in Welsh, that longing or, or feeling of wanting some connection to the, the former fatherland. But he goes out and finds these beautiful old pieces of furniture and gets them restored and it's just like there's something just pleasing. And this, like you say, the story behind some of these pieces of furniture that he's, you know, it's been handed down. It was from 18, whatever, or 17 or it's. I think we missed that in the modern world. There's another, I think I've mentioned it previously on a different episode, but there's a lady who, her husband got a job at Lego in Denmark in the, in the headquarters there, and they were both from the uk and she was like, I don't speak Danish. I don't really see how I'm going to get a job as a journalist in Denmark when I don't speak Danish.

And.

And so she decided to, to write a book on living in Denmark as a, as an expat, you know, as a commission piece that she could do while she was there. And through her research she realized that the Danish are consistently ranked in the top three of the happiest people in the world. So she, she wrote this whole book on why, you know, basically trying to uncover why the Danish are so happy. And one of the chapters she talked about was the fact that that whole kind of IKEA style furniture, minimalist, natural, but I guess historically it was minimalist, naturally made and intergenerational. And. And I think there is like an. For me, I think that there is an energy that, you know, if this, this kitchen table is 200 years old, like the number of meals and arguments and, you know, celebrations and what have fed into this table. I think there's something in that rather than. Yeah, we got it for 29.99 on sale and if it lasts us two weeks, we're pretty happy.

Oh, I totally agree. I think that, that, I think that that's something that we just need to understand is around that passing down of and that intergenerational perspective that we've lost a little bit massively. And I'm trying to think of when it went who it was. It was. I'm pretty sure it was in the 1930s again to drive consumption. So the GDP measure was also formulated at that time. Time. But you know how crises actually if we're really reactive about them and we don't think the whole process through, they can really spell out some quite.

Strange tools. But the whole idea of the warranty was not so that you had, you know, that sort of buying something that's really good because it's been, it has a warranty. It was actually giving a life activity to a product.

Right, right. It's like if you get more than five years out of this, you're doing all right.

Yeah, yeah. It was legitimately to say to all designers, you only need to design up to.

Yeah.

Because then after that we don't really care. You covered?

Yeah, yeah.

Houses are only designed to last. Was it like 25? I think the, the internal structure of a modern day house is only designed to last 25 years. That just bemuses me that anyone has approved, proved that and gone. Yeah, that's okay. When. I don't know, I think maybe when you, if you've grown up in Europe or you've been in Europe and you know there are Roman villas still standing that are over 2,000 years old. It's like we can build to last 2,000 years. I mean it's Neolithic stone structures that are like five. The pyramids. Yes, we can do this but we choose not to because of. Yeah.

And even some of the chalets and frank France, they're like 400 years old.

Yeah.

So wooden structures as well.

Yeah, yeah. In. In harsh alpine environments, it's like I think we can cope with Auckland. I don't know, Wellington's pretty windy. So. Although allegedly not hashtag on a good day. Yeah, yeah. For those of you not in New Zealand, that would be meaningless. But Google it. Yeah.

So, yeah. Rivology. Um, how's it all going? Like what's the, what's the latest.

Oh, so latest is. It's going okay. I think my primary, you know, primary objective this Year has been to keep people employed. And because we're down in Monica, we've actually been really, really. It's been incredible the amount of Kiwis and. Or those in New Zealand who have been here, who've really supported New Zealand business. So huge shout out to everybody but because that.

Go Kiwis.

Yeah, go Kiwis. Wherever you came from, there are some who have stepped here only very, very lately. But thank you to all Kiwis.

And it really did rattle our cage. We had huge issues with supply chains. Just, you know, one of the other things that came into the mix last year was flex product production. So flax is linen, essentially, and we buy it from a cooperative in France because that's where 80% of the flax is made and processed. And it's not harike, just so that everybody knows it's a flax is a linen and harikik is a formium. But in May they had a huge heat wave, so it totally devastated 80% of the flax crop last year because there was a real pushback on consumption. There was not a lot of clothes being made or purchased. It hasn't held us up too much because they had enough stock so that we were able to continue, which was good. But it just drove home that fragility of the production of fibers and natural fibers.

Even. Even natural fibers, which is crazy. You kind of think, oh, petrochemical, you know, big, extensive production chain, multiple countries of source, you know. Yeah, you kind of get supply chain, but like natural products cut.

Yeah, small processing from another indication for me around that environment. This is a region in France that have been doing this for so, so, so long, like centuries. They have been producing linen and they don't often get just another indication of climate change. Hold on, I'm getting my cord.

Please hold.

Callers, just hold. Anyway, that was a real issue and then other supply issues are also around.

Just being able to keep that production cycle up was really challenging and we had to hold off because we were really uncertain about the capital going into it and just putting money into developing the bike further.

But this year exciting because I think that project has been just off the boil. But it's now starting to get back on and we should have a few working prototypes by the end of the year, which is nice because that's when.

I remember, that's when we first met. I was emceeing the Enviropast conference in. You were one of the keynote speakers and I was quite excited about your sustainably made bikes. And I'm still excited and waiting for it. So yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing more about that hope. Who knows, maybe we'll get one in the Tour de France one year. That'd be, that'd be pretty cool. Get a racing one and get it in there.

Yeah, I think we'll be, I think we'll focus on urban bikes. That seems reasonable with two big road cyclists in the family that pretty continually.

They could, it could be a distraction. There could be a side project there. Well, there's a couple of Kiwi cyclists doing pretty good in the Giro d' Italia and Tour de France recently. So who, you know, who knows? Who knows. But you also have your own event that you clearly, you know, you don't have much going on, you know, with a startup, retail store startup, you know, changing the way we design products from the ground up. And then on top of that you also run your own event which used to be called the One Summit, which again thankfully thankful to you for having me down there a couple of years ago. But it's now it's changed and what's it called now?

So what we have changed that name to, which is more.

The Trust sort of needed a name change away from something that was a little bit political and I didn't quite. We didn't like it anyway. It didn't sit well and it took while a us a while until.

We change it to wow. Which is a word for that forest. So the idea is that, you know, when you look at a forest it's a one forest but there's a lot of diversity in it. And the Trust is set up, its sole purpose is to inspire, educate and enable transition to more regenerative, carbon neutral communities. And so we have on our board some incredible people who have different expertise in carbon accounting and social and well being. We've got. And we have different work streams as well as having a yearly summit where we pull together.

The summit really is about seeing what's happened during the year, where we've come from and looking at at okay this is where we're at now and where do we go forward and during the year as well we have a number of work streams so we've got working groups set up in the building sector. We work with Lake Monaka Tourism here with there's a regenerative tourism group starting up looking at their sector. There's a hospo sector, there's Genwell which is sort of the 20 to 30 year olds who look at activities and each of these work streams look through so they are the biggest sectors at the moment of our economy in this community. And each group is looking through the Sustainable Development goals at where the tensions lie, where the priorities are and where the opportunities are to go forward. So the building group for example there's been a community workshop that has dropped out of that one where we're looking at materials flows as well as mental health and wellbeing in that sector.

There'S suck free Wanaka which is also one of the initiatives that came out of the early discussions which is getting rid of single use cups by 2022 out of hospitality in Wanaka there's another initiative around waste free building sites that are coming through in that one. So that's sort of going through throughout the year. And the Ginwow they do, they've had had talks around democracy 101 so understanding around voting in general, the process and that was just prior to the elections.

Nice.

And then the summit sort of pulls everything together. So this year will be the fourth year. It's a national summit so not just for local community but for anyone out there who would like to attend. It's somewhat where it's about cross pollinating ideas between groups doing similar things throughout New Zealand so that we can actually learn from each other and accelerate the movement. And there's again different. We look at it through how we that better buildings. So that's everything to do with infrastructure, energy resilience. There are talks, tours, workshops. The brands are going to be there I think again this year here doing an embodied carbon workshop. We've got another one looking at.

Waste free building sites. Then we've got another stream which is around the circular economy. Another one on food and fiber. So that's looking at the. Anyone all the makers out there who grow our food and clothe us with fiber.

Nice.

And there'll be tours on farms. There's the regenerative tourism. Couple of days there again looking at how that sector is going forward. And they've had a really interesting year with a back to life program which is run nationally. And so we're looking at doing a hui.

To sort of get. It's really about collaboration and partnership. You know as a sector you can move mountains when you really start to collaborate with something.

Yeah.

And lots of carbon. Yeah. Just lots of stuff for kids.

It's a great event. I was blown away by. Yeah. The caliber of the. The event, you know the cop, the topics, the engagement, you know of attending. I think there was from my perspective there was a lot of people in the room that I Didn't think would want to be in the room, but they were in the room and they were engaged and interested in talking about some big topics. So we have got a question from Maria just to take you back to your bike concept. She said, let me. I'll put your comment up for you. I missed the sustainable bike concept. Sorry, can you elaborate? So I know we've got a little bit of a hard stop because you've got to go and have afternoon tea with the mayor or the mayoress. Is it the mayor or mayoress down there? The mayor. So yeah, quickly, if you can, I'll try and find a link on your website while you're. Is there a link on the rivology website about the bike?

There's a little, a little first initial design, but the idea is to look at from two levels. It's about the materials we're putting into the bike. So making sure that we've got a really low emissions bike from a production point of view and using natural fiber composites to be able to do that. So that would be. Natural fiber composites can replace almost.

Quite often where carbon fiber being used and it's a much more cost effective way as well.

To be using it. And what.

Natural fibres, what they do is they actually embody carbon in it. So it would be a low emissions bike frame for the start. But the idea is also to make a bike that is designed to be passed down through the generations. So if you're a bike designer out there, do not put any tech or gadgets into the frame of your bike. Please do not design anything that has wires, lights or anything that is connected to it. Do not buy a bike where there is a battery integrated into the frame. Because just ask yourself question, what are you going to do with the frame once the battery dies? You're going to have to find a battery that fits into that frame and it's not sure that that company is actually going to still.

Exactly.

And it's a much harder to throw a bike into the bin than it is to throw another iPhone. You will feel much.

Much worse about doing it. So the idea is really to look at the longevity of the bike, do a lifecycle analysis on it, look at its embodied carbon and then go forward and say, well, you know, use software in a way that is smart and can be. Look at how much CO2 you're saving when you're biking along per year.

Because again, it's, it's so crazy because I remember, you know, grew up in the uk, so had never been to Asia and working for one of the medical companies over here. I remember going to Malaysia for. For a conference on. On the island of Langkawi. I remember walking around going, my God, they're using bamboo. It's like scaffolding. How dangerous is that? But then you realize that now actually, bamboo is stronger than steel scaffolding and it's fully sustainable. And you just want to go, well, actually, who's the idiots here?

You know, And I think there's so many. There's so many things that we just take for granted that. Well, we're using modern, you know. Yeah. Unsustainable products. But it has to be like that because it's the best thing. But quite often, you know, nature is pretty good at being resilient and strong and sustainable.

Yeah, I think that there's these. So much potential and seeing materials, you know, are you working with materials in that bioeconomy that are going to be able to really be composted without putting any toxins into the environment, or are you going to have to stay within that circular economy where you are actually being able to upcycle again and again and again the same materials? And for some things in the composite industry, and it's not. Composites are really a difficult subject, but because we need them for things like windmills, for wind turbines, because they're light, you can't go beyond them. But can we do that in a different way? Not always. But it comes down to before you even think about creating or making is what are you making it from? What are the materials going into it? And what is the life cycle of that product that you're designing? I think once you've got that framework in mind.

It'S hard then to make gadgets. It's really hard.

Unless you just don't care. But, yeah, I think I'm of the opinion that most people really do care.

You're right. I think fundamentally.

There'S that old adage, you know, no one goes to work to sort of be a dick and make the world a worse place. I'm not entirely convinced. I've met a few humans who I think actually they do go out of their way to make life hell and, you know, be a bit of a dick at work. But yeah, I think in general, people want to do the right thing and it's just that they don't. They either aren't aware that what they're doing is having a negative impact, but I think that's getting less and less as it becomes more obvious that, you know, I think for me, one take home for this would probably be, you know, just stop and pause for a minute and, and just have a think about what. What actions are you undertaking as an individual or an organization that might be having a negative impact for someone? Because someone. There is enough negative stuff. There's enough, you know, externalities out there affecting people that someone's causing them. It could be you. It might not be you, but just have a quick check. And if it is you, talk to someone like Monique, if you're looking into design or, you know, products and say, hey, look, I want to know why it's not so good and how I can be better. It's not rocket science, is it?

It's not. Do you know, I think I'm going to bring it back to the cargo.

If I can go for it. Good old inverse.

If we're part of a community, and being part of a community is about accountability to each other, and it's about making sure that when we do something that we're not. If we had to.

If we were doing something or bringing something into that community that was causing harm, then you were accountable for it.

Yeah.

And in a vocal. You definitely. It was a small community.

Totally.

That was. Accountability was part of it.

Totally. Someone's going to take you aside and have a conversation and go, do. You know, we really just don't appreciate. And I think that that's the analogy I use when I'm talking to corporates about purpose. It's like. And I saw a really great analogy, actually, from a B corps in the UK called the Octopus Group. And. And they literally say, imagine if your business was a person, you know, you. You're per. You're a person walking down the street. Are you kicking the trash. Tag, trash can over? Are you, you know, taking food from the homeless guy's mouth? Are you, you know, metaphorically, how are you behaving in your. In your society? And I think that's 100. Right. Like, we are one big tribe. Are you. Are you contributing to the tribe? Or I. You know, the analogy I typically talk about is it's kind of like we're all sitting around the campfire and. And someone comes in, they pour the last bit of drinking water over the fire, and then they steal the last bit of food. It's not long before it's like, hey, Monique, done this three nights in a row now. The kids are a bit hungry, we're a bit thirsty, and we're not really sure where you're taking all the food. Could you stop it? And it's not long before you're thrown out of the tribe if you don't turn that around. And I think increasingly people are realizing we have some people in the tribe who are being dicks.

But we're getting there. Hey, so we're at the hour mark and I don't want you to be late for cucumber sandwiches and tea and I, I bet you there will be. Matt, was it? What's that? The Battenberg. I bet there's, there's that. Yeah, be all over that. Oh, really disappointing.

You don't stop.

You've blown, you've blown my image here.

But hey, no, thank you so much if people need to get hold of you. I've got links to Revelatory Revology and the WOW events If you, if you. Yeah, like check it out. It's a really, really cool event. What, what's kind of what does the future hold for you do you think? What's, what's the next thing coming on on for Monique?

Oh.

I think just amplifying what I'm doing. I think this is. Or what we're doing because I, it really is a team effort. I think that there's a really interesting bubble up coming from a Wanaka perspective. But from in the South. I'm also involved in a project to start a processing plant for oats or plant based beverages down in Southland which is a really exciting project. So I would say just amplifying what's already being done.

Nice. I love it. Hey, and thank you Maria for tuning in. She's giving us some immediate feedback. Thank you both very interesting and Michael Philpott had great work to make great discussions. So it looks like we've nailed this episode. I'll put some links if you. We're obviously on LinkedIn. Connect with Monique on LinkedIn if you want to get a hold of her. But yeah, Monique, you know, thank you so much for just being an amazing human and doing some really, really cool stuff. Inspirational work. Really gonna, you know, I think you'll look back in 20, 30 years time and, and just be like literally, wow. I think I achieved quite a lot. I'm hopefully coming down to Queenstown Wanaka in the next month or so. So watch this space. I'll take your dog for another walk like I did last time I stayed with you. If there's room at the, if there's.

Room, give us a. When you're done. I'd love to catch up.

Cool. Awesome. Hey.

To another amazing human being as well. Thank you.

Oh, thank you. Cool. All Right. I'm gonna throw you out of the. If you stay in the green room, I'll come and see you in a second. Yeah. So thank you everyone for tuning in. Yeah, thank you, Maria, for tuning in. And thank you, Michael. I need to get rid of Michael's comment. We can't give him such free advertising. Yeah, thank you for tuning in. Hopefully you got something out of that. I thought it was a great chat. I don't know who my next guest is going to be. I haven't looked that far ahead in my calendar, but I've got a couple of really cool people lined up. So, yeah, please keep tuning in. Um, if there's anyone that you want me to have a chat to, let me know. Um, I'm sure we can make it happen. Peace out. Have a great weekend and we'll catch you on the flip side. See ya.

And that's a wrap. Hey, thank you so much for listening into my podcast. I hope you found it informative and inspirational. I'd love to know where you are on your purpose journey. And if you have any specific questions or people you'd like me to interview to help you on journey that, please do let me know. Also, feel free to connect with me on other social media platforms. You can check out all those links in the show notes below. And if you want to see how I might be able to help you specifically on your purpose journey, you can go and check out my website, www.growgood.co or drop me a line by email, timogrogood. Co. All those links will also be in the show notes. I would genuinely love to hear from you. But anyway, until next time, go well and keep, keep seeking that purpose. Fuel performance in your life.