#49 Show Me The Impact Report Jerry! With Karim Sabet From Orbviz

Cool. There we go. So we are live in the group. We're live on the podcast. It seems to be working. We'll go with that. So, Kareem Orb this. What do you know, how's it going? Who, who are you? What, what are we, what are we going to be talking about today? Some pretty cool ninja like stuff, I reckon.

Really exciting stuff. Yeah, I reckon it's ninja stuff, but that's what we always think. We're pretty proud of what we've been up to. So we're, we're, we're a startup out of Price Search down here. We an offshoot of another company, another startup called Orbica and we spun off from Orbica June 2021. We started off with Environment Canary coming to Orbica and saying, hey, Orbica is a geospatial data consultant company. And Ecan came to orbit and said, Orbica and said, hey, we've got a bit of an issue here. We've know. And you'll probably understand this in your world and most worlds is Excel sheets, we've got PDFs and we pushed us out in these reports out to the public and we've only had about, I don't know, handful, maybe 70, but less than 100 downloads. No one really, really reads those PDF reports.

Right.

Do you reckon you really. Yeah, that's right. You know, we were talking about it the other day and you said that's why they, they hide the bodies.

Well, that's what, that's what they used to say, wasn't it? You know, where's the best place to hide a dead body? Page two of Google. And I think you can also add impact report. Any, any large conglomeration of data. Unless you're, you know, unless you're into spreadsheets and numbers.

Well, there are people that are into spreadsheets.

I've, I've heard that. Yeah, I've heard that.

Yeah. Yeah, you can. And you can see them. You can, you can, you can, you can tell straight away who they are from afar.

We just alienated everyone who loves spreadsheets. Um, I know.

Sorry guys.

No apologies to Michelle Sharp in particular, who's actually a really cool human who loves spread. She's a bit of an. She's like one of those outliers like, like spreadsheets and like.

Yeah, no, I, I've, I've, I've heard about Michelle. Her son's doing some really fantastic stuff and yeah, he's, I reckon he's gonna be an F1 driver.

F1 driver coming at you soon.

Yeah, yeah, Big fan. So sorry. Michelle. Spreadsheets are great. We love spreadsheets. But for the rest of the people that don't love spreadsheets and tabular data and PDFs.

What'S next? What's there? You know, I mean, the attention span is so, so small that we, there's a lot of numbers we can throw out. Like 65 of the global population are, are visual learners, for example. And that's a, and that's a data from 18 years ago. So it's probably even more so now. Right. People's attention span with everything that's happening is very, very short. It's, it's. You know, there are really good platforms out there that gives you so much data, like Power Bi and the likes, right? And analytical tools, and they are for business analysts and, and people that really love spreadsheets and love the data. But what about our, the, the, the rest of us, the mere mortals, the.

Rest of humanity.

You know, the, the mortals, the ones that just go, oh, this is too complicated, I don't want to deal with this. You know, it's, it's that bit, it's the, it's, it's the other part. You know, we were told by a CEO who works in an industry with a lot of data, he said, can you do something with this? And sent us a spreadsheet. Spreadsheets. And we basically put, we. Basically what we did is with Orbiz on the platform and basically the feedback we got was what you showed me in a few minutes I hadn't seen in years. And that's really what it is. How do you digest information in a way or consume it in a way that, you know what, I've actually understood this now. And on the back of that, I have more access to data than I, than I had about half an hour ago or five minutes ago. And I can give you feedback, better feedback. You can make better decisions or I can make better decisions. Like, it just changes the way people look at that stuff. And that's really where we came about. And so on the back of ECAM coming to Orbica and saying, hey, we need a bit of help here. Orbis was created as a software or platform inside of Orbica and we've managed to spin off from Orbica last year on the back of having six local government councils.

And a few others in the corporate world. And that's really where it is. We're still a young startup, so officially we've only been our own entity since June of last year. So a year and A half ago. And it's young, but the potential is huge because at the end of the day, it's really about people looking at it and going, well, I get this incredible. And so you can use it for financial data. You can use it for, in this case, impact sustainability. What's really important, there's a lot of complex data out there. And KPMG just came out with a supplement to their global supplement report around sustainability reporting. And they said sustainability reporting is here to stay. It's really important for organizations and that, that includes impact reporting that, you know. Yeah, people want to know what more, what more? What else is out there, especially in the ESG world, what are organizations doing? And there's, you know, they're now ethical investors and people that want to know, hey, are you, are you really doing what you're saying you're doing for us and the environment and the social aspect and the governance side, or are you greenwashing, so to speak? Right. Or are you doing something different? And if you are, you're send. You're pushing it out to me in a format that is, I won't say outdated, but it's also static. So once you publish it, it's at a date. What's new, what else is out there? And I have to actually make the effort to read and go through it unless you give me a summary and I look at four or five bullet points and go, okay, but what's more, it's hard. Right? And so the whole idea of, of now, how do you change that? How do you get people interested in wanting to go, oh, cool, you know what? There's more to this. I could spend a few, a few more minutes, a few extra minutes. And on the back of that, you get, you go, I want to spend a bit more time extra finding out. I mean, we'll talk about, you know, the, the, your impact report and, and even when I show it to people, they know about B Corp. Yep. But also that's where it really stops.

They're like, it's like, so, yeah, oh.

No, no, I've heard of B Corp. Yeah, absolutely. And, and we want to kind of give the, the people the ability to go, what does that really mean? What does it do? And you, as in your example, you know, it's like, so how did you answer this? What did you have to give? How did you become a B Corp certified company? What does it mean to be a B Corp certified company? This could in your case as a B Corp, but it could be in general, impact reporting around what else have you been doing? What does it mean if I look, if you, if you, if you research and Google sustainability reporting, top 100 companies in the world, or anybody that's actually doing it, it's the same way. It's either on a web page or it's a PDF to read it. It talks about, here's a chairman message and then it goes through a bit of stats and then talks about what, what you've done in your emissions reporting. And have you, you know, are you achieving this and that? And so there's a, there's a, I mean, yes, there is a framework or a structure to it.

Yeah.

But it's, it all looks the same. And at the end of the day, it's because it all looks the same. And if, you know, it's hard to search things out there, what, what exactly does it mean? I want more as a member of a public. Give me more, get me to understand this. It becomes complicated when it's not that. And so that's where we kind of. When I show it to people, when I show a use case, especially when we go into conferences and we put it on a big screen and on a touch screen, people are really blown away because they're like, oh, what about that bubble? Yeah, and that, but what about that one here? And how is that connected to it? How have you done previously? And, and how did you answer that question? You know, every, every question in the assessment in your case is a, is a, is a bubble. You can straightaway see that for in your case, community is where the most impact for you.

Yep.

Right.

Yeah.

But straight away we can see that. And straight away I want to go, what is that question? What is that question? How did you answer that? And I don't have to read through page 34 and then go back to page 5 and go back to 100 and you know, and it's disjointed and I have to go to another website and come back and, you know, and that's tying things together, making things interesting, intuitive and engaging for people. That's really what we're all about. And so that's how we came about.

Nice. Yeah, I think it's, what's, you know, paraphrasing the quote badly. We're, we're, you know, drowning in information but starved for sort of knowledge. And I guess you're really trying to help cut through all the bullshit. And like you say, it's, it's easy to bury data or. I don't think, I think most people don't Intentionally make, you know, impact reports or other big reports, hard to read it. Like I say, that's just how we've always done it. Um, that's, that's a really interesting stat. On visual, on visual. Like I'm a very visual human. Like if you tell me, if you tell me, it's like, yeah, but if I see, you know, when I used to sell medical devices, the training protocol they used to call it was see one, do one, teach one. And that's how I learn. It's like I watch you do one, I'll do one and then I'll teach someone. Like I will learn all day long on doing that. But yeah, you give me a 50 page booklet to read with size 8 font.

I mean that's human nature.

Yeah.

And, and those booklets and those, and that font and all that, that there are, that exists for certain people.

Yeah.

That will not go away. That will not go away. And you want it that way as well. But what about everybody else? What about, you know, especially now where everything, the world is actually changing. The, the consumption of data and news and everything. It's all very different to what it was 10 years ago and 20 years ago. 30 years ago.

Yeah.

And so we know now how do you kind of, how do you change that in, in a way that you don't really. We don't want to disrupt it completely because people get scared of the word disruption.

Yeah.

But it's actually, it's that transition into. It's the same data. We're not, we're not making stuff up. It's data.

Yeah. Just in a different way.

Publishing it in a, in a PDF where we're being transparent because it's published, but no one's actually reading it and connecting with it. And we're changing that. And so that's really where it comes down to. And we work with local governments and the local government works really well because they push out hundreds of pages of reporting here in New Zealand, it's every year there's an annual plan that goes out and tells the public where we're spending your money the next year. But, and then, but it's a three year cycle. So every three years is a long term financial plan that comes out and that actually shows you it's 2, 300 pages in some instances, 400 of. And it's legislatively driven. And so they have to actually push it out to the public with so much information in there. But, and then they push it out for, for a month and go, member of the public, please give us your feedback and here's where you can consult. We want you to consult on this document, give us your feedback and then we hear this across the board over and over again that we don't have enough people reading it. You can only measure have they actually done anything with that PDF by the number of downloads? Yes, but okay, have they downloaded it? Great. But have they actually read it? Did they understand it? Did they share it with somebody else?

You know, did they take any action?

Yeah, did they take any action? And then you go, okay, based on the downloads and how much the amount of submissions doesn't really fit. And so.

What, what's different? Why not? And it's not that the councils in this instance are not being transparent because it's public data, but it's, it's the, the, the, the format and it's, the angle that it's, it's pushed out. And that's where I think we've seen, we're slowly seeing a shift. So we, we managed to bring it, bring on seven New Zealand councils on board who are presenting their financial. In this instance, it's the spending. Where are they spending taxpayers money over the next 10 years or year or two or however it is in a way that the public can understand. And it's been really good. Because on the back of that, how do you measure success in something like this? Well, it's by actually understanding which is the analytics that sit in the back that go where's your roi? And it goes, okay, well you know what you had about, and these are actual figures by the way, from a less than 100 page download of, of a document.

Yep.

Less than 100 download of a document to 4000 sessions, 30,000 page views and an average user spent 4 minutes, 4, 4 and a half minutes on the platform. That is a long time for people to go, whoa, where am I? Where are you spending my money? Yeah. And the feedback we got from the public was thank you for bringing that data to life. We now have better access to data we didn't have before. It's the same data, by the way. This is not new data. Yeah, yeah, the same data, but it's an, it's, it's. Instead of being published in one to 300 page PDFs, it's actually on a platform where people can interact and it's intuitive and engage with. And they said we can give you better feedback and then on the back of that feedback you can do better things with it.

Yeah, yeah, just like a real, it's a real positive feedback loop. Isn't it?

It is at the end of the day, and it's just a little shift. And one of the things we're seeing a bit of right now is the status quo is a bit of an issue. Right. Because things have been done for decades in a certain way and people go, okay, well, you know what? We've been doing it that way. It's not really high on the priority and so on, but we're seeing actually bit by bit, the more, the more people start shifting and others see what others are doing. They go, actually there is a better way out there to do things because we're getting better engagement and feedback and our data is being understood. So, yeah, I mean, you know, we're, we're pretty, pretty passionate about what we do and we're pretty confident that, you know, more and more people will, will start to push out data in a completely different way.

100. So how did you get into this world? Like, young Kareem growing up, was he like, hey, when I, when I'm old, what I want to do is help people connected. Like, how did you get into all this stuff?

Young Kareem grew up in different places. So I was born in Senegal, west coast of Africa. My father was working there. I'm Egyptian. Background's Egyptian. I grew up in Calvin, was in Tokyo, and then went to school in the US and.

Moved to Kuala Lumpur. So I did a few years in Malaysia and I did a couple of years in the Congo and then I worked randomly off. And, you know, it's, it's, it's ironic because now we're looking at impact and sustainability and so on, but I did work on an offshore oil rig in the Mediterranean for, for about, for about a year back in the day. And I mean, if you're going to.

Work on an oil rig, the Mediterranean sounds a lot better than the middle of the North Sea.

Yes, that is actually very true. The stories you'd hear. You'd have to actually wear a wetsuit before you get on the, on a helicopter. Yeah. Because it's so cold where. No, we were just wearing shorts and just prawns and. Yeah, exactly. Glasses of wine.

Yeah, Yeah.

I don't know.

But yeah, but.

And so, and then, and then after that to Dubai. So I was in Dubai for, for many years and met my wife who's from New Zealand and she wanted to move back home. So we moved back home. We had a family and came in, came over here and. Yeah, it's been good. So Oakland started off with Oakland and then now We've been in Chrysler for almost three years now. And so my background is sales really. I come from the sales world and doing different things around the sales vertical. And it came about where I met at one of a networking function, I met Kurt.

So we're three co founders at Orbiz. Kurt is also the founder and CEO of Orbica. So that's how it started off. And working at Orbica was Vanessa o' Brien and she was the comms and marketing manager for Orbica. And when the company spun off, Vanessa took on the role of co founder and CEO of Orviz. And I, I came along a month after it spun off.

And I'm also one of the co founders of Orvis right now. So we're three co founders.

Nice.

And. And the. When I saw this, it was a year before I joined. Kurt showed it to me. It was still a product inside of Orbica. Yeah, the first thing I, I remember when he showed it to me on the big screen, I remember standing up and going, wow. I stood up, went straight to the screen. I went, wow. Imagine looking at the annual reports and all these PDF reports. Imagine if you're Minority Report. You remember that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. It kind of. I had that. I, I always thought that was really cool when some Cruise was pushing things around. It wasn't Tom Cruise or somebody else.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that what came to mind, I was like, wow, imagine if you can actually then move this expense here and that expense there or whatever it is that you want to show. And I kind of connected with it and Kurt and I stayed in touch for, for a year and I managed to join them afterwards and it's been, been a really interesting journey. So.

Nice. Nice. Yeah. I first heard Kurt talking at some sort of networking event in Christchurch and I was like, he's got a very deep baritone voice, which.

You pay attention. It's like manual.

We should be.

You should be in some choir or be like a opera singer with that voice.

Well, he's, he's, he's setting up a podcast. It's coming up at some point.

So what's that?

Well, I don't know, but he's got the voice for it.

Right? Right.

Yeah. And yeah, I just remember him, him talking about one of the, one of the projects that they worked on. I think there was an outbreak of like Legionnaires disease or there was something. Is that right? There was something going on in Christchurch and the, the district health board were trying to work out, well, how do we track where it's come from and where it might be going next. And Kurt was kind of like, well, give me the data. And you know, half an hour later he plotted it and got. It's come from here.

It's like, yeah, he's, yeah, that's pretty cool. He's, he's, he's, he's really incredible. He's got this really big entrepreneurial brain. And yeah, just the stuff that Orbiter are doing now is going to blow people away. It's going to change a lot of things. So we're pretty excited about that. And also Vanessa, the co founder and CEO of Orbviz.

She'S so good at.

The communication side of things as well. And this is what you need from a platform like this. How do you actually communicate this? Right. And so it's actually taking all that, you know, everything and all the. We've got three, we've got a really good team now and it's taking all that kind of all the skills and putting it into a platform that actually works for everybody.

Yeah, I think it says something that if you've come from this, from a sales background and if you can get a salesperson interested in data. I mean, I come from a sales background myself and I remember when I first started in sales we used to get like a printout mailed to us, that's how old I am rather than sort of email to you. And, and my mate Will, who's one of the sort of highest performing sales guys who I was trying to emulate, he just said, right, forget all this data. The only one that matters is the sales number and it's on the back page. So he's like, just throw away all that rubbish. That's the only number you need to know. And that's like, that works for me because all this rest of the stuff, not that interested, to be honest. So yeah, if you can, if you can capture the hearts of mind of a salesperson around data, you know you've got something.

Yeah, well, and that's the thing. I mean there's so many, you know, you, I mean, like I said, I come back to Power BI because they're an amazing analytical platform. A lot of people tell us, but how are you different? Power bi? We're actually very different because we don't want to play in that, in that field. Absolutely not. They, they're an incredible analytical platform with analytics and all that and grass that come out of it, but you still have to explain it. At the end of the day someone will actually look at this and still go, hey, well, can you explain this to me? Actually using Power Bi, you need training. It's, it's pretty, pretty intense to use. Yeah. And then you still have to explain it. You still have to put it in a, in a PowerPoint or in a Word document. You still have to explain what you're looking at. And that's the bit where we are in. And it's like, you know what, there's a lot of data and a lot of analytics out there. There's a lot of graphs and all that kind of stuff that's coming out.

Yeah.

I just want something that I can understand very quickly and give me a story straight away. So the storytelling aspect of the platform is actually really, really key.

Yeah. 100 because, yeah, I think that. Yeah. And then I guess this is why we, we connected because it's like, you know, there's lots of companies looking at B Corp increasingly, this whole idea of impact reporting and trying to tell the story and it's still, it's, it can still be quite clunky and it's impersonal and it's, it's. Here's a, here's a screenshot or, you know, in our report, here's a table showing how our carbon emissions have varied over the last five years. And it's like. I don't know. Well, there's a bit of a graph and I don't know. Yeah. And think that's, that's what really appealed to me was just this, the interactivity. And. Yeah, I mean, we've been, I guess, putting ideas back and forth to each other as to how this can help B Corps and how, you know, what, what B Corps need in particular can help. Help you iterate. And yeah, that, that touchscreen idea where you can then use it as a mechanism to get stakeholder feedback, get internal stakeholder feedback around. You know, where should we be looking at being better? This, this is how we've performed. You can look at how we've been performing over time. You can see the snap. Because, like I say that the challenge with a lot of static impact reporting is it's like this was the snapshot on the day that we chose the snapshot. Whereas this is, you know, gives you that ability to make it more dynamic if you're, if you're keeping your data up to date, but also lets you do that comparison in a really easy way rather than. Well, again, like, if you've got a static PDF, it's like, well, I'm going to have to copy and paste this data to match it. Against the data that I want to match it against, rather than kind of actually just be able to go, I want to compare that and that and see what's going on.

So it's simple. Keeping things simple is what it's all about, really, at the end of the day.

What a crazy idea.

That's what it really is crazy, isn't it? I mean, we always say when someone asks me, hey, in a sentence, can you tell me what Orbis does? And really keep it simple. We just say, creating reports people actually read.

It's as simple as that. Yeah. You know, the report can be in different formats. Well, the format that we use is really one that people go, oh, cool, all right, I can spend some time on this. This is, this is cool.

Yeah, yeah. Well, maybe now would be a good time if you can share your screen. For those of you who are listening to this on a podcast without the video, I'll try my best to explain what you're seeing. But yeah, for those of you who are watching this live in the group, there's a couple of you, by looks of it, or if you're watching this, I think on Spotify or other platforms where you can see the video. Yeah. Can you share. If you've got the. You can share your screen.

About to share my screen, so you go for it. So what I'll do is I'll share a couple of.

Couple of iterations, but just to show you how we came about. So I'll do a bit of a comparison comparative view here so that you can see. So what you're looking at here now is a long term plan from one of the councils. Ecan. It's really pretty pictures. I mean, look at that. Canopy area is really, really, really nice. And, and it's the same thing. There's a lot of effort that goes into this and, and.

But what's next? Right, and nothing against ecam, by the way. I mean, they're, they're great. We love working with them and every other council we talk to. It's the same thing. You go on and it's, it's a PDF report and it's the same with corporations when they push out their annual plan. It's the same thing with other entities. Sustainability report.

And, and how many pages is it? We're on page. How many?

325.

325?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, like you say, I, I'm looking at this, I scroll through, I like the pretty pictures. I see a revenue and expenditure table. I'm like yeah. Look, I trust you, your, your econ. I'm sure you're doing great stuff with my money.

Yeah, absolutely. And that's the thing, I trust you. You're, you're, you know, you're doing stuff with my money.

But how much do I trust you if I don't understand your data?

Well then that's the thing. Yeah. And it's like, well, I, I don't have the time. I'm not, I'm not a data person. I don't really, I don't like numbers per se. I much prefer pictures, stories.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely right.

There would be no way I, I, yeah. Literally how many people have read all. I would hazard to guess that not even the person who wrote it actually read all 325 pages.

No, and that's true but it's a lot of it has to do with, because of legislation. So that's the key part here. Legislatively, councils have to report on their, in the annual plan and long term plan with as much information as they, as they have to when it's, the criterias are set.

And then it's a ticking the box exercise really.

Yeah.

And it's just human nature because then you have to focus on the next one coming out the year after and other things that are happening and so on. Yeah. So how do you actually take the key, key parts and want people to kind of digest that. Right. So if you're looking at one, you know, it's, we're looking at here as a portfolio, water and land.

You know, there's different programs inside that is working together for healthy water and land, monitoring and understanding our environment. What else can you do with this? And so on. And then you kind of go, right, this is where your revenue and expenditure is. So this is where we're thinking of how we're going to make the money in this particular portfolio. So there's like general rates, target rates, grants and so on and then the expenditures. So these are the different portfolios or different programs inside the portfolio. And this is on a year by year up for the next 10 years where the money is going to be spent. To be able to really understand what that is, you have to really go inside the document and then go back up again, read and so on. It's, and then you go into the next portfolio.

It's hard.

Right?

Yeah, yeah.

And so what we've created is what you see here and this is, you.

Need, you need to go ta da and a bit of a like drum roll and then ta da.

Ready I'm ready.

You ready?

I do this for a living. And then. Ta da. Right. So very easy again. And then this may or may not be the best sort of use case to show all the features because there are ones that came after that. But I'm just showing you the you can one because really it's, it's where, it's where Orbis started was around the.

Need for something different.

It's just, it's just a great way of just showing the difference between like a 325 page document versus so for those of you if you're tuning in, listening to the audio, please go and check out our YouTube channel like and subscribe. You know how it works. But yeah, basically what, what was a 325 page long PDF document is now we're looking at basically a. An opening tab page with a home view where there are different size bubbles on a screen. And basically the bigger the bubble, the bigger. I'm guessing it's a revenue number for this case.

Is it in this case some. Is it revenue? Yes, but also it could be bigger the spend.

Right. So it's a financial based.

As long as you have a numeric aggregate to it. Yeah, it's not financial. It could be also impact. It could be a greenhouse gas emission, it could be FTEs. There's so many other. As long as you've got a number that you want you can show.

But for this, in this instance here, it's money. Basically.

The bigger the money.

Yeah.

Right.

Show me the money.

The bigger the money. Right.

We're just Tom Cruise quotes all day now. Minority, I know Jerry Maguire.

Maybe we should, maybe I should reach out to Tom and say hey, could you be the face of.

Or can I just, can I just sample. Show me the money. And then every time you press the button it goes show me the money.

Get a little video and go show me the money. Thanks Tom. All right now, so now that we have Tom Cruise on board, I think we're good. Yeah. So what we're looking at here is basically the standard format for this.

Right.

On the right hand side, like you were mentioning, there are bubbles. In this instance is 340 individual bubbles. They represent 340 individual projects that have money, whether it's spend so whether it's money going out or money coming in. In this instance, that's what the bubbles represent.

Yep.

The size, the color corresponds to which portfolio we're looking at. So we were looking at water and land before in the PDF. The next one, which was green, which was Biodiversity and security. You'll find that in green as well. On the tab in the middle, on the left hand side is really what we tell people and what we see as the differentiator between a lot of the other sort of platforms out there. Especially if it's the power BI's of the world where it's quite complex that you still have to take that graph and go and explain it. It's the content, the storytelling, the narrative part of the platform. And so this is where you can tell your story. This is where you can tell, hey, what am I looking like on the right hand side. So you can, we've got a little pie chart here, but you can actually. Or donut chart, you can, you can put a video which is what you've got, you can put a photo, you can put links to other website also what you've got. And so there's a different ways of actually telling your story and it's not just text. Right. So we try to move away from text. But if you want to, if you want and you like to tell your story in text format, hey, knock yourself out. We've got the platform on the left hand side here for you. If you want people to actually read a PDF, you can link, hyperlink the PDF onto here and you click it and it'll open up the sustainability report or the financial report or any report. If people like PDF, hey, I'm talking to you guys out there who like, who still like PDF, we've got you covered.

Still we are fully a, fully inclusive.

It's 2022, everyone's welcome on the platform. And if you like PDF, hey, we've got you covered. So we're not. If you like Excel sheets, we've got you covered. We're not ruling it out, we're just actually just providing something that's a bit less complex and easier for people to digest and read. Right, cool. Tom Cruise, I hope you're listening. I'll be calling you people really soon. So next, if I want to know now, give me a 30,000ft view.

Of where the money is going or coming from straight away with one click. Here you go. Now how to be able to do that on a PDF, I would have to, and I'm going back to the PDF here. I'd have to like go up and down this PDF compared to this one. Right. And you others can potentially have a page that kind of does a bit of a comparison. But the normal practice is that you would have to go up and down a document.

Yeah. And copy it Maybe copy and paste it into your own spreadsheet.

Right. And that's just how the documents work. So now here's a 30,000ft view. Now, if we wanted, we were looking at the Water and Land portfolio. So if I want to focus on Water and Land, I'll click on Water and Land. And that gives me a 15,000ft view of water and Land. The different programs that are here, which is six of them, which they also exist in the PDF, which I'm back to now, just giving you a bit of a headache. So that you can see the difference.

Here, flicking between the two sound, clicking.

Between PDFs and going up and down the page. And you can actually, can you hear the sound.

The click?

Yeah, that's actually the sound of PDF. If you didn't think PDF had a sound, that is actually the sound of PDF.

It's kind of like. Well, I kind of feel like the other, the other phrase you should use is like, if it's like that, you know, if, if a tree falls in the forest and Noah's there to hear it, you know, did it really fall? It's like if no one heard the PDF click. Did the PDF really exist?

Exactly. You know, does PDF really exist? Oh, we know PDF exists. We know PDF exists. But you, you, you know, now we know that there's an actual sound for PDF which is. Again, here you go, you can hear it.

It's a bit fight on that one.

Yeah, that was a bit dramatic. I know I actually did the dramatic thing. But that was actually the sound of the mouse scrolling up and down. Right? That's the sound of PDF.

So you heard it here first, people.

You heard it first. Here's the sound of PDF. But that's how you kind of interact with a long 2, 300 page. Even if it's 50 pages, you still have to go up and down and read.

Yeah.

Where does this connect to? How does this connect to that? And so on. Right? And then. So now we're looking at. Go back to Orbiz. Now we're looking at Water and Land. This is a 15,000ft view. Now if I want to click on, hey, what are these programs? I'll click on one program. You see the data on the left hand side, which is the narrative content or it changes depending on where you click. And now you've got a 5,000ft view of what you're looking at. And if you want to go all the way down to a little bubble. So we've got here, it says, what does this say? Plant administration, Fresh Water regulatory framework. That's a tiny little bubble. It's about a total revenue $155,400. If I click on that, you see the left hand side actually changes and it gives me information on what I just clicked on. So now I'm looking at the ground root brow, grassroot ground level data. Right. In a couple of clicks I went from 50000ft or 30000ft depending on which airplane you're using. And you're looking at the, the Entire data to 15 to 5,000 the ground level in a few clicks and then you can go all the way back down to. All the way back up to your 50,000ft. Yeah, very, very easy. The insights. So what you're getting out of this is not only is it. Hey, I mean this is actually there. Oh by the way, there is an.

Actual.

Head X about the joy of bubbles and why circles and bubbles work on the psyche.

Interesting.

So there are no hard edges. It's, it's pleasant to look at, you know, so and I, I mean that's a, that's a, that's another kind of discussion here. You, I can share that with you. It's, it's actually really cool. So there's a, I didn't, we didn't even realize this but there's a scientific interesting thing behind why the bubbles work, right? Why, why, why Moving bubbles are actually pleasant to look at. So not only is it pleasant to look at it and, and it's like gamifying what you're looking at, you know, the data and so on making it pleasant and easy, it's actually very intuitive. You're looking at this. Is anything difficult in this you can, you can, you can basically highlight on any of the bubble and it'll give you the data you need or you can click on it and on the left hand side you'll have the story and you can link it to anything you want. So for example bus services in Kratch which is the largest bubble out of 340 bubbles. If I click on that it says total revenue $71,000,680 $738. And it tells you about the bus services pressures. You know it's, that is actually represents X amount to the total budget and so on. And there's all this data that you can, you can put, they kept it in text but you can put a video explaining it. You can link it to another website if someone wants to. If you want to tell a bigger story you are in charge of the, the data and the narrative and the end user is in charge of the journey that they want to be on. Right. And so what you see here, that's basic standard orviz, what in the particular instance for Ecan, because it's a regional council, there's about 10 councils in. In the. In under Ecan. So you'll have different people living in different councils. So if I type in. And I won't type in my address because this is going live, visitors. But I'm just. Or let's say.

Just a random. Is there a road called Cashmere?

Cashmere Road.

It's definitely Cashmere Road. Okay, well.

If anybody's living in 25 Round Hill Rise, Cashmere Estate. I'm really sorry.

Yeah, hi.

But, but by the way, yeah, thanks for tuning in. But by the way, I just typed in your address and out of 340 bubbles or projects with funding and costs and so on, it just showed me very quickly that out of the 340 you at 25 Roundhill Rise, Cashmere State Hoonhae Valley are actually the rates that you're paying covers 261 projects only out of 340. So it's a bit of a, it's a bit of a customization, what's in it for you kind of thing as well, you know, where's your money going? And we can, we can, we're looking to develop it even further to kind of go into what, bump what, what, what exactly on your, on your, your bill, your invoice, every single dollar. Where does it go? But that, that requires a bit more development. But that's where we want to get to. Right, that's a bit of that development. Can you do that in the PDF, what I just showed? Well, what you're looking at here right.

Now, there's no way can you do.

That in the PDF.

Unless. Yeah, no, unless you're like, really? Really? Yeah, I guess. Unless you actually got the raw data from the council. But even then you'd.

But, but then, even then It'll be probably 1500 pages with line items of every single house in New Zealand or in that. In the Canterbury region.

Yeah.

And then, like, it's just very, very complicated. So the whole idea of ORVIZ is giving you that insights to the data and accessibility to data that you didn't have before in a very, very simple manner. Engaging and intuitive. And it's like, hey, I want to spend more time on this than anything else. And so now we're looking at a council and it's showing financials, but now let's put another hat on. Right, and go, right, well, how does this work in. In, in the. Outside of a financial world or outside of the council? So we in Orbviz have identified that we're going to be focusing on sustainability next year. And that's really the key. There's a lot of stuff. I mean, KPMG just came out with their supplement for New Zealand supplement of their big report around sustainability reporting. And the New Zealand supplement part was with KPMG New Zealand and they came out and said, sustainability, sustainability report is here to stay. Right, yeah, but there's more that needs to be done around it. Lost opportunities around, you know, brand positioning. Are you actually doing what you, what you're wanting to do or the, the public or your consumers or people that want you? Where, where do you sit on that.

Opportunity around investment? There's a lot of things, you know, have a read through it and there's a lot of things that are actually really, really neat around why sustainability reporting is important and what can be done differently. Moving away from greenwashing, moving on to data that we don't really understand. It all looks the same. Hey, you're doing, you're saying you're doing so much, but how does it, how does it work? What does it mean for me? What does it mean for you as a brand? And I guess we did that. We. We did your B Corp and B Corp. Hey, by the way, congratulations. I just saw on LinkedIn that there was a big, big party in London. Yeah, yeah.

So a thousand, one thousand company in the uk. Yeah, yeah.

They've got movement.

Yeah, man. They went from like, I think it was 150 in 2018 and they're now at a thousand in 2022. So, yeah, whatever's in the water in the UK right now, it's B corpi. It's because it's very be corpy. Yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, so this. But there is a growing movement for it. And why is that? I mean, that's the question I'm going to ask you. Why is that? Yeah.

Yeah, it's a great question. I think there's a confluence of factors. I think we've got increasingly, as individuals, we're increasingly aware of the impact that we all have and, you know, whether that's good or bad. And I think this kind of links to the overarching desire for everyone to have some sort of purpose and meaning in their life and the job that they do. And I think increasingly over the last probably decades, we've kind of realized that maybe what a lot of us have been doing in our day to day job isn't actually that positively impactful. So then as more awareness comes around, pollution, environmental issues, social issues.

You layer on top of that kind of social media and now it's pretty easy to connect to other people who think and feel the same way about a challenge or something that you see in the world. And then on top of that, I think you layer Covid and everyone had a bit of a moment to sort of sit at home and reflect on, well, do I even like my job? Do I even like the people I work with? Do I even like what I do? And maybe now's the time. I think kind of everyone had a bit of a mini existential crisis really during, during the various parts of the pandemic.

Yeah. Which, which is just leading to. Those individuals are then also customers, their employees, they are part of someone's supply chain and they're potentially in the investment world. And you know, we're just seeing, I think, a changing of the guard across the business world where people are kind of going, well, hang on a minute, what, what good do we actually do as a business? And I think one of the big things I always like reflecting on was, you know, during the lockdown we had here was when some companies were like, no, no, we are essential. And the government's like, no, you're not essential. And I think for me that's like an interesting question to ask yourself as a business is how are we essential for existence? Because if humans don't actually really need you, then why are you here? You know, if you, if you're taking up too much space, then what are you doing? So.

But you see, that's actually quite interesting because I think it's also a generational thing because that's how the younger generation are thinking about things. And so that's why it's a movement and it's growing. And it's not just B Corp because moving really, really fast. But we're really impressed by it. But in general, that whole kind of ethical investing and ethical purchasing and what, you know, where is my money going? And I want to make sure that's actually how the world is actually moving now.

Yes.

Where it's where it's going. And so that's why we're seeing a bit of a. In a way, yes, it is fast, you can see it moving really fast. But actually in other ways it's actually pretty, pretty slow still to transition because it's still led by, you know, generation. There's the, the boomers and Generation X and it's like what I want to move, but not yet. You know, it's potentially. It'll be much faster later on. Yep.

I kind of think the younger generation. Yeah, I kind of think we're kind of in the curve of that, of that change. And I think, I think it's really hard for us to really pin down how fast or slow that change is happening. And I think in my gut feel is it's probably happening quicker than we actually think it is, but we're not seeing the outcomes yet because we'll, we'll talk about this in a minute. You know, in terms of like some of the bigger reporting organizations that are now mandating that companies have to report. So, you know, whether it's going to be the stick or the carrot, pretty soon people will be demanding at some level. But like I say, whether it's institutional investors or, you know, TCFD or, you know, if you're at the big end of town, as in a large listed company, pretty soon, wherever you are, you know, in, in most sort of western democratized countries, there's going to be requirements that you report on at least your environmental performance.

Oh, it's happening already. If you're looking at the EU and what they're doing union, the commission, so on, that's already happening 100 and, and you've got it here. XRV is also pushing it.

Yeah, yeah, totally. And this is the thing, you know, talking to a mate of mine, Tina, who runs conferences on sort of ESG in the real estate sector primarily. She's got a conference coming up next year and, and one of the topics they've got is going to be, I think it's my scope three emissions are your scope one emissions. We need to talk. And I think this is what people haven't necessarily factored in is if you are, you know, Bob the builder or I don't know, Penny the plumber, and you're a small to medium business, but you're part of a large company supply chain. In the not too distant future, that large company is going to start going down its supplier list and going, okay, well, Bob the builder and Penny the plumber, actually, we need to know what you're doing, like what are your emissions? Because we, we are having to report across all our emissions and you are a part of our emissions.

So I think, yeah, it's linked. Absolutely.

Yeah.

No one's going to be immune from it.

Yeah, so that's, that's where I'm kind of optimistic that everyone's going to start having to think about how they do what they do and what does that mean and how does it interact and how, you know, you can't just, I think, you know, right now there are some companies that are reporting on one metric that makes them look really good, but if you actually scrap, scratch the surface and look at, you know, deeper through the supply chain or, you know, other parts of it, actually you're not doing that well. And pretty soon that's not going to fly.

And it's going to come out. And it's going to come out. It does. What do you, what do you, you know, it's almost, dare I say it, too late. And then you're going to be in crisis management, you know, and so. But again, there. And they're quite. Having said that as well, there's a lot of companies that already have data and they push stuff out and they create these big reports and sustainability reporting and so on. A lot of people want to do that, whether it's being. Because it's mandated and they have to, or they really care. But the key now is you've got so much data and you're pushing it out. But are you, Is it just a ticking the box exercise?

Yeah.

Are you now saying, hey, I've now spent time, money and effort, resources and so on to create these reports and to create these, these documents and we, you know, here you go and good luck and read them. And if anyone asks, like, hey, we tick the box. Hey, you can go on the website and read this PDF is 2, 300 pages or 50 pages, even if it's 10 pages, right? Or actually, this is what we've been doing and I want you as the end user, whether it's the stakeholder internally or the board level or the investor level or the consumer level or anybody, whatever level to go, ah, cool. This is neat. I get it.

Cool.

There's more there. It's a, it's live, it's not static. There's. It's being updated. I understand. It's linking me to things that make sense and, and I can see why you've done it a certain way. Or if you actually need help here, what are you actually doing? There's a big thing that came out actually, and I think you wrote about it, you know, when it. The Nestle or is it Espresso?

Nespresso.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nespresso being B Corp certified. And there's a big uproar around, how can Nespresso, you know, be the B Corp certified and you know, all the little pods go to the landfill anyways and so on. But it's like, but wait a minute. Actually that's, that's perfect because they're actually doing something about it and they want you to know that. Yeah, we're not, you know, we, yeah, we identify that there's, there are gaps and we're actually filling those gaps and doing something about it. And this is what we're doing. Yeah, but, but so that's what, that's really, really important now for people to actually go, hey, I'm not just pushing this out for the sake of pushing it out. There's a story, I have to tell it. People need to know why I'm doing this and how I'm doing.

And I think this is, you know, we sort of talked about it or we, we've mentioned it already, you know, like this greenwashing. But there's also what we're seeing and, and a big fear is, is what's called green hushing where people are scared to tell the story because they're not perfect. But.

My, my whole take on that is there is no perfect company. There is no 200. You know, at the minute, if you, if you wanted to try and win B Corp, as it were, you need to score 200 points. Well, there's, there is no 200 out of 200 Point B Corp currently. So no one's perfect. You know, even, even on the B Corp framework, there is, there's possibly a perfect company out there that is fully regenerative and making, you know, absolutely zero impact. But if it is, if there is, I don't know who they are. But I think the vast majority, and I think the vast majority of people recognize that no organization is perfect, no individual is perfect. But we've got this moment in time where we're all trying to be better. Which is, which is why we call our community group Be Better. It's like, use B Corp to be a better company and recognize that you're not perfect today. But if we can all strive to be better, that 200 point B corp, that's kind of really all you can ask people to do. And again, I think, yeah, what your platform allows people to do is, is present that and go, look, this is where we scored well, great. This is where we haven't scored so well. But this is why. And that, you know, this is again that I talk about this pretty frequently. The tension that purpose driven businesses have is you need money in the current economic system to do good and if you don't have the money to do the good, if you do the good and then you run out of money, then your business isn't here. So it's being able to identify and work out what is important to you, what's important to your stakeholders, but also explain and tell the story that, look, yeah, we didn't do so well here and this is why. And we're aware of it and, but equally just being, I guess, humble, but also vulnerable, I guess, to sort of say to people, but look, if you know how we can solve this, we'd love you to help us. Because, you know, there's a lot of things that people just don't know how to make better. You know, it's like, it's a systemic thing. It's like, but hey, give us some ideas, we're listening and if we can make it happen, we'll give it a go.

And you're talking about the B corp. So obviously we're Talking about mainly SMEs or the majority of small to medium enterprises. But even if you look at the larger ones, so like take a top 10, top 20 or 50 or large organizations globally who have a sustainability team and who push out sustainability reports. Yeah. You'll have big press releases coming out and big headlines around. Yeah, we've done this, we've done that and so on. But it just kind of, it's a ticking the box. You know, the, the reporting could be 50 pages and really good photos and some videos and so on, but it, what it, what does it mean? You know, you're doing great and you're doing perfect, but as a, as who, who is it targeting? If it's targeting nobody other than the ticking the box for regulatory purposes, then that's a shame, really. And that's where things are changing because it actually has to change the way people are reporting because it has to make sense. Yeah, right. And if it's audited and goes, you know, you've done really well. But if, if your end user, your stakeholders or people are not actually connecting to any of this data, it gets lost on the importance of it.

Exactly that. And that's what we were talking about that before we came on. And I need to connect you to, to Chris and Lizzie. So, you know a B corp, local B corp as well, that has historically done a really good impact report is Kathmandu, and that's because they worked with Chris. So shout out to Chris Herbert, who is a storyteller and you know, she kind of had to take them on a bit of A journey initially to say, look, you know, I hate to break it to you, but no one's reading your impact report because it's quite boring.

No way.

I know. Could you imagine? Could you imagine that?

And so, you know, she. She said, look, let me. Let me reconfigure it for the next one. And, you know, I always remember this story. Like, I don't remember all the details, but. But the story sticks out because it's a story. You know, one of the team, Kathmandu, who was responsible for helping source the down material that goes into the puffer jackets, well, he's a vegan. And so he. Chris worked with him to write a story about how he goes to the factories where they source their down from and how passionate he was about animal welfare because he's a vegan. And it's like, well, that's a cool story, but it's also true. And it shows the depth of care that the person who's monitoring the ethics and the animal welfare of your products actually cares. And that whole. The story of the tension about, I'm a vegan and it hurts me to see animals being used to make a product, but I'm the best person to monitor that because I actually really like. That's a cool story. And people will understand that tension. As opposed to, we source X amount of, you know, down product from this factory. The factory is really good, and we have this guy who looks after it to make sure that they're nice humans, people.

I mean, people want something to relate to. So if the data is complex, they'll just go, oh, here's another one of these reports, or whatever this means. I don't get it. But if they relate to it, that's what it is. Or if they. Not they relate to it, but also if they just. Even just understand it. Right. It's easy to digest. They don't have to relate to it. But if it's easy to digest as well, that's the second level. They go, right, okay, now I get this. Right. There's more to it here. And so that's what I've got opened up here. You know, you sent me this data.

Yep.

In an Excel file.

Yep.

You actually sent me three files.

Three. Yeah. For the three years. And that's the thing, you know.

Three years.

You know, I've had that data for, well, since 2016. And I've. I've never, like, copied and pasted it all into one spreadsheet to then compare it. Literally never even crossed my mind to actually do that. Whereas here you know, I can just go in there and play around and go, okay. And you know, as my team's getting bigger here and we're working with more people on sort of same ideas, it's like, hey, can you, can you just have a quick look and like, what do you reckon? Like, should we be looking to do more under environment next time around? Is that important to you? How can I do that? And it's just really easy to click on it. So yeah, if you're listening on the audio version, we're looking at. So I work with Kareem to create the first B Corp impact assessment, I guess, like impact report using the OrbViz tool. And yeah, for someone like me who's visual, it's like I can just look at it and go, well, this is how I've been doing. You know, what are the areas where I've done better, I've done worse. Yeah, it's just, it's super easy.

But the, the whole idea is, I mean if it's just a matter of seeing where you've done good or bad there, you can use a simple dashboard. Yeah, really. And there are dashboards out there that'll just give you, just go, you need to work on here, you know, in this. But, but that's really where it sits. Dashboards are usually one layer. It's pretty static and yeah, you can't really go up and down and understand the story. What, what's actually the content behind what you're looking at.

Yeah.

So again we look, we look at this in the way. It's the same format as Orbis. So I, I actually don't know how many bubbles, I can't remember. But, but let's say it's a, I know it's actually 100 bubbles. Maybe.

Yeah.

I can't remember 90 odd bubbles or. But that. So the bubbles represent a question. Every question on the assessment. Yeah. Is a bubble and the size of the bubble. So now we move away from the, from the financial world and the size of the bubble is the size of the impact of that question or the size of the total points available for that particular question. So straight away at a glance I can tell from here that the community.

Impact area has the most impact.

Yeah.

In their questions for you. And straight away that goes. Okay, cool. There's, there's, there's a lot going on there.

There'S closure questionnaires that have zero points. So they're all the same size. But you, you put it in there because it's like, how did you answer Them, you know, what were the questions and so on. But straight away on the left hand side, here's. So if you guys are watching or you can't see this on the left hand side, every, every panel has a video that Tim uploaded. So this is where actually is different than looking at an Excel sheet or a PDF is because you're now able to, by uploading a video explaining what you're about to look at, you're making this engaging for people.

Yeah, so I did a little explainer just sort of saying, hey, this is the area. This is, you know, from a B Corp context, this is what community looks at, this is what governance looks at. And this is sort of like the highlights of where I scored well this time around. So.

Right, yeah, and you've got that comparative view here. For those who are just starting off on the journey. You won't have comparative data. Yeah, but, but, but that's where you start. And you can potentially kind of go, you know, every, every time you, you do an assessment, you can put your, your data up here and we can see that Tim's done really well. I mean he's doubled his points. In the third assessment right there, the.

Governance one was the interesting one because that's the one where we've gone up like really significantly. And that's because, and that's because, you know, we, we have, every B corp now has to do this legal requirement so you have to update your constitution. And so that, that's how we've got the uplift. But it's like, it's just, it's a, it's interesting to know that that's a thing. But it's like we were really happy to do that. And this is what, this is what stakeholder governance is actually all about. It's about, you know, making the owners and shareholders aware and accountable for the impact of their operations. So it's like, yeah, that's how I've got 10 more points on that section this year and this is why. And so, yeah, it's really to explain it.

That's the key thing you just said. And this is why. Because if I click on governance and it. Okay, it shows me that you actually increased almost four times than you did previous two assessments. Yeah, but why? How did that come about? So if I click on the largest bubble, which has got a total points available of 10, which is. Which you got 10 out of. Yeah, if I click on that, it actually tells me the story. So it actually tells me on the left hand side, here's the question. And that's how you answered it.

Yeah.

So great, perfect. If you wanted to add a graph or a table or a video or something else or a link to another website, you could. So you've got the ability on the left hand side here to tell your story fully or not, it's up to you. But then I go, okay, great, you got a 10 out of 10 mission loft. Let's go back to the impact area. Give me the 30,000ft view. Yeah, or 50 and, and, and go. Right. Okay, what's next? So I know for from here that community where is where you probably got you and you did get the most points. It's 33 over, 33 points out of community. Next is governance 18. So if I click on community, it opens up the next level of the, the hierarchy, which is economic impact, civil engagement and giving. And this is where you can, you know, if people don't understand what a local economic development is, this is where you can actually explain what that actually means. So if you wanted to. And then every bubble on there is a question that you had to answer. And so, and the way we've actually, so let's click on local economic impact and its commitment to local communities. And how we know that you've got 100% is because we can also visualize it in a way. So we've actually highlighted the bubbles that you got 100 on. So the questions that you got 100 on, we've highlighted, We've had a, we have a green halo around it and it's pulsating. So now at a quick glance, not only can you see the full report, but you can really quickly now go, right, so he's got 100 on these questions. All you know what you'd also do if you wanted is actually flip that around and go, right, the ones that he got less than 50 or 0, we could put a red halo around it. And that's where those are the areas that you need work on. So you're in control of all of that, but you can present it in a way that people can very quickly make sense of it. So if I click on local economic development, commitment to local communities, you straight away, I know you got 100 because it's got a green halo around it. And I know the question that was asked, does your community have so and so. And you said, yes, we've got this and that. Perfect. That's your 10 points. Yeah. And I can very quickly go back out and go, what else have you answered? Where else do you need work on? And so on. So imagine if you're a large corporation with people questioning why you've actually been certified. And I have to, if I, I actually went online and the, the Nestle B Corp assessment is I think three to 400 pages on the PDF.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Espresso.

So it's Nespresso. Yes, Nespresso. That. Who's going to read that? Yeah, it's hard, but so if you can present it in a way that people go, right, okay, let's just spend some five to ten minutes on this and, and really read and understand it. That's, that's we can get insights and see where things are going very, very quickly. And what else you can do here is on the left hand side is actually you've got here and you've got it. You click on here on the left hand side and it'll open up the area where you can read your ebook. If you want to listen to Tim's podcast, click on the link here. It's all in the same platform, so you're in charge of what you want people to read and see and they can actually choose where they want to click.

Yeah.

So that's really what it comes down to is taking all these reports and making it really engaging for people to go, ah, cool. I get it. Perfect. This is what I think of you and you're actually doing really well. So I'm gonna buy your product or I want to do more business with you or let me invest more money into you because I know where you're headed.

Yep.

Nice. Yeah, it's super easy. I mean, like, seriously, you know, if I can use it, then this platform is for anyone. It was.

Yeah, that's actually really true, guys.

It was. You know, the thing that took the longest to get this up and running was me. Just your videos providing to Kareem and setting the data stream. But I was just so busy at the time, like it's super, super easy.

To get the platform and that's the whole thing. So it's B Corp. It could be sustainability reporting, impact reporting, risk reporting, anything that you've got so much data on and you're like, oh my God, I don't have enough time. And I have, you know, I have to publish this by June, July because of auditing and all that. Well, you know what, this is actually a live link. You can update us, you know, every day, once a month, once a week or once a year. It's up to you. Yeah, but you're in charge of that.

Super easy.

Yeah, absolutely.

So I'll just, We'll stop sharing there. Get back to. So people can see. See what you look like.

So the future of impact reporting, like you say, you know, kpmg, we'll get a link to that KPMG report. As we were saying, you know, xrb, the external reporting board. You know, I think, I think I was talking to a few people this last week just about impact reporting, impact measurement, you know, all this stuff, like I say in the eu, certain parts of the US like this, this stuff is there already. And there's always this lag for New Zealand, you know, perhaps more so than Australia, but it's coming and, you know, we're already. We've got a couple of clients, you know, who might even be in the group where the reason why they've come to us is because someone in their supply chain has said, hey, we want to know what you're doing. Like, we want to know what's, what's your footprint, how are you? What's your social, environmental impact? And that's why we're like, yeah, you should maybe have a look at B Corp, because that might help. But yet to be able to quickly be able to demonstrate. Oh, you know, I think, yeah, there's so much potential for a company to be able to just efficiently and effectively say how and why it's doing what it's doing and get that engagement. And. Yeah, I mean, we literally just connected before the call. We're like storytelling that. That's the next piece that you need. And we'll connect you with some people after this because then you've got a really, really powerful tool. It's.

Yeah, absolutely. So the actual content of the storytelling, that's.

That's really what I mean.

Yeah. And so the platform, what we. For us, we've always said we're a storytelling platform because that's what it is. At the end of the day, you're actually telling your story as much data as you want. It's complex, but we actually taking that complex data, pushing it out in a storytelling format with engaging visualization. Yeah, that's where it comes down to.

And it's. It's the old thing, isn't it? A picture paints a thousand words. It's like you and you're literally painting.

Thousands of words moving, moving bubbles, paints even more than that.

Yeah, yeah. So just quickly on the bubble stuff. So. Yeah. What. So it's just. It's pleasing on the eye. It's like a safe. That's basically why the bubbles work, that the. We'll Find out.

It's easy to, it's easy to visualize what's big or what's small.

Right.

With bubbles. Right. I mean, you could have it in squares, you can have it in chocolate bunnies if you want. But, but, but bubbles make a lot of sense. And again, I come back to the point. There's an actual Tet talk on the joy of circles and bubbles and why people connect with that.

Yeah.

Right. And so we can share that as well.

Yeah, yeah, we'll get a link to that and put it in the show.

Absolutely. It's like, why, you know, why bubbles? Oh, this looks fun. But it's actually not just a. It's fun because it's easy to see, but actually on the back of it being fun, you're actually getting a lot of insights from that that you wouldn't be able to do unless you read PDF documents or you read text on the website or. But you have to do a lot of the work that you probably just go, this is too hard. I'm not going to do it. I'm just going to flipping through Netflix.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, super cool.

I think there's a lot going on there. There's a lot that can be done where this is Orbis 1.0, what we showed. Right. We're on the, we're, we're on the development path. We're, we're going to be adding a lot of different paths, features as we go along from now until probably mid of next year to end of next year, we're going to be adding multi metric capabilities, flexible hierarchy. So instead of going, you know, three tiers to see the bubble, you can go two tiers or seven tiers, depending on where you want to click. You can split bubbles into more data, more bubbles. So split a bubble into more bubbles and you keep going until you get to what you need to, or the capability and the ability to do that if you wanted to. Right. Having analytics on the back of that. So if you want to know, hey, how many people are watching, which bubbles are they clicking on the most? Which part is more interesting for people? Which area, how long have they stayed on, where have they come from, where have they shared this to? We'll be able to give you analytics on the back of that. That's mainly where the ROI comes in as well. Yeah. Around. Why would you invest other than showing it in a way that everyone can understand? It's like, what are you getting on the back of that? What's the engagement? What has it been like? People understanding it Potentially, then we can tie it in with. Then you can go, hey, have I had my sales increase or my revenue? Are people more interested? There's a lot of things that can go into that, but we want to bring those analytics inside the platform as well. So we're. We're building as we go along and it's. It's a. It's a. It's a ride and a journey.

I recommend. Looking forward to being a small part of that journey with you. Yeah, definitely. Hey, mate. Well, I really appreciate that. Yeah, we'll. We've got links everywhere. Like I say, you know, we're recommending you to people as we're talking to them. Yeah. If you. If you are a B corp and you want to see if this is for you or any company that's reporting complex social and environmental data and you want to do it in a really cool way, Kareem's you, man.

And it's not just cool, it's useful. People would actually do something with.

You need to. I think there's a marketing angle around. We're not just blowing bubbles here. That's like, you know.

Yeah. We're not West Ham United.

Oh, theory. Cool. All right, mate. Hey, look, thank you for your time. Yeah, it's been great. Chatgi. And we'll stop the live stream, so thank you, people for tuning in. Thanks, guys. There we go. Live stream has stopped. And we will. Hey, it's Tim here, that B Corp bloke from Grow Good. If you want more content on purpose, B Corp, how to do more good in the world as an individual or a business, then you know the drill. Hit the like and subscribe. Check out some of my other videos. They're probably floating around here somewhere. You know how it works. Thank you so much. See you next time.