#60 Check him out! Our Tim talks up a B Corp storm on Creative Jam

Kia ora, everybody, and welcome to another episode of Check Me Out. And this is a really great one. When we talk about the environment and really important things with sustainability and things that you really, if you can have the opportunity to do with your brand and your packaging, then I highly suggest that you go through this process. And that is the B Corp process. And what better to have with the B Corp process than with that B Corp guy, Tim.

Indeed.

Yeah.

Self appointed title, but okay, I'll take.

It anyway, I look, take whatever you can get, you know. Yeah, welcome Tim. So can you tell us just about B Corp and how it works and why it's important?

Yeah, totally. So B Corp certification is essentially third party independent verification of your company's social and environmental performance. So it is initially an online assessment that you take that looks at your business's operational performance across five main areas, which is governance, workers, community, environment, and customers. And so you do this assessment and you need to score a minimum of 80 out of 200 points on the assessment. And once you've scored above 80 points, you then submit your self assessment for independent verification by the audit team from an organization called B Lab. So B Lab is the company is a nonprofit movement or organization that runs the certification program, but you become a certified B Corp by my company or others out there. So it's what I call a rigorous but achievable process to put your business through, to see how you're doing and recognize the good that you are doing. But also use it as an impact guide to go, oh, we've just never thought of that before. That's a really cool topic. That's a really cool idea and that kind of resonates with who we are and what we're trying to do. Let's go and explore that and try and be better at that maybe in the future. So yeah, you go through the assessment and I guess, yeah, really, why are people doing it? Well, we bring it back to four main pressures that we see affecting every business and it'll either be one or all four of these. Typically your customers are wanting this, your employees would want this. Potentially investors like current investors or potential future investors will want this. And depending where you are on the supply chain, there might be some supply chain pressures. So if you're the person providing the extract into a product that's then being sold by them into a retailer, you know, increasingly the manufacturer is going to be looking at their supply chain to go, hey, actually tell me more about, you know, where you're sourcing your products from. And Are you paying your team a good wage and what are you, what's your environmental footprint? So, yeah, those are the sort of four main pressures that we're seeing and particularly I think in the, you know, with the brands that, you know, you're, you're working with those consumer brands that have, you know, packaging that are more direct to consumer. If, if you're in the FMCG sector and you're not a B corp, in the near future, you're going to be the dinosaur. And particularly more so if you're exporting outside of New Zealand into other markets. So in the UK now there's over a thousand B corps and globally there's about 6,000 plus globally, the vast majority of those are in personal care, health and beauty, food and beverage. So that sector is massively represented. And so if you've got a product where you're making claims you know about it's natural or it's health based or what have you, what is it, you know, put it through an independent certification program and see if you meet, meet the bar, because that's what more and more people are doing.

I think it's really important now, I would say that Covid had a massive helping hand and actually for people to be really taking a decent look at what they're actually, what they're buying and what they're purchasing. And we really need to know, we're really keen to know now exactly what is going into our products and how, and how good they are.

100%.

Let's, let's focus a. Let's focus on skin care. It's always a hot topic at the moment. If I had a skincare, a moisturizer that I wanted to get B Corp certified and you mentioned we go and we do the online assessment. What happens if I get less than 80 on that score? What, what's the next process then?

Yeah, yeah. So it's not uncommon that on the first attempt you don't score 80. So the median score on first attempt globally is 50 out of 2. So it's a total of 200 points. 50 out of 200 is the median score on first attempt. Really at that case, when you get to that point, there's a couple of things you can do.

At that point. Well, I guess that's kind of really why we exist as a business because quite often what people have done is they've missed, they've misinterpreted the questions. And most people, particularly kiwis, we're really humble and we understate what we think we're doing so quite often there's points that you've left on the table that you're like, I don't think we're really doing that, or surely we can't be as good as this global framework suggests that we think we might be. So that's definitely one of it, one part of it. The second part though is actually then having a look at where you've fallen short and going, okay, where do we need to do better? And like I said, that's why it's a really useful guy, because most of the questions are they'll either be multiple. Like you can take one, one of six levels and so it might be just, yeah, you choose one of six. Or there could be six or four different options and you might be able to tick all four of them. And so in some cases it's a case of like, well, we're currently at level one, how do we get to level two, two, three or four? And it might be something like, you know, having a policy in place or changing a procedure or looking at. Yeah, whatever it is that you might need to do. So, yeah, sometimes it's a case of just making sure you're being a bit, a bit less harsh on yourself when answering the questions. But equally sometimes it's like, actually you're genuinely not currently meeting the mark. So yeah, think about where you can do good. Typically New Zealand companies, we score really well on the workers section because we have a lot of favorable trade winds. So we have, you know, government provided health care superannuation, we have, you know, leave entitlement, so on and so forth. So typically the workers section is a relatively easy one to get some good points on. I think what's probably reassuring for people listening or watching is almost every company that we've helped with B Corp, and this is every company from service companies through to product manufacturers or retailers, very few people have got great clarity on their supply chain. So if you're worried that, oh, we don't know, we don't really know what's happening on the supply chain. You're actually in the vast majority of people. And most companies are kind of, we buy all our stuff off a guy called Dave or a lady called Janet in Auckland and they seem really lovely but we don't really know where they get their stuff from. And that's most people and like, that's okay. Just recognize that and, and recognize that that's an area that you need to be, you're going to need to, you know, improve on.

And yeah, that's quite amazing actually with the supply chain thing is because as a consumer a lot of people wouldn't know that and assume that you know where you're getting your, your vanilla and your cupcakes kind of thing. And, and so I think like having this B Corp there is, is a really good way, you know, like having the heart foundation tick or the health start rating or something like that to actually so that consumers in a really simple way can understand that yeah, this.

Product checks out 100% and that was a big driver behind, you know, what B Corp's all about. It's that trust and accountability and that indo, you know, that's, and that's what I personally like it. It is not the perfect framework or rating system. There's plenty of stuff that's wrong with it. There's parts of the, the questionnaire or questions that they ask that I don't actually agree with. I think it's, you know, that's too much that you shouldn't be talking about. And, and everyone's got an opinion on the assessment, but it's the only framework that's globally recognized, independently verified and social and environmental impact. And that's why I like it because exactly that. When you as a consumer, when you see the B logo on the brand and you know that that company has gone through a rigorous assessment process and it's not just we've paid some money to a body and they've given us a logo to put on our, you know, on our website or on our product and there's plenty of those out there and a lot of people don't, don't know that and they, they see that and I think that's why B Corp is getting some cut through. I mean it's still relatively fringe. When you think, you know, there's just over 100b corps in New Zealand, 6,000 globally, that works out at about 0.01% of businesses around the world and the same sort of figure in New Zealand are B Corp. So we're not Even like the 1% of the business world doing B Corp. But it is massively gaining traction with consumer awareness and people increasingly that conscious consumer is looking for that B logo and are making that decision based on this. Like you're both making claims, you both taste good, you both, you know, you both feel good. I'm going to go with this one though, because I know that it's been independently verified, it's backed up because, you know, the greenwashing stuff is real.

Yeah, let's talk about the Greenwashing for a minute here. And for those that don't know about greenwashing, what is it and what's the difference between greenwashing and B Corp?

So I think my definition of greenwashing would be typically, and as a reformed sales guy, I always like to pick on the marketing department. It's typically, you know, marketing based claims that are unsubstantiated or are so loosely framed that it could mean anything. So, you know, we have more, more sustainable options in our store for you. Okay, well what does that mean? What, what does sustainable mean to you? What does more sustainable mean? Or are you actually meaning it's less rubbish than we used to have? It's like when there's any sort of vagueness yet or lack of transparency around the specific claim, that's, that would be a part of it. And then I think the second part of it would be the fact that it's a claim that you're making that you, you know, who's, who's audited the numbers or the theory that you, you're espousing. And again, that's where B Corp is different. It's, it's a, it's a framework, it's harmonized globally. So if you're doing this, the same company in the USA or the UK or Australia, like they're doing this, you get the points recognition and an auditor has looked at that and gone show me the evidence that you're doing that. So if you're making claims around, yeah, like, you know, we are organic. So you know, we've got organic produce or we have a health benefit to our products, or we use less in our product than a competitor product. We'll prove it. And I think that's where you know this particularly. I think in the cosmetics industry, there's some well known brands out there that you know, put some claims on the back of their bottles or on their packets. Say, you know, we're more environmentally friendly, you know, we're on the journey to being plastic free or what have you. Whereas I always sort of compare, you know, Etique is one of my favorite cosmetics brands or healthcare brands because you look at the box of the, of, you know, of the products and it's B Corp certified. I think they're living wage certified, they're bunny leaping bunny certified. They're you know, plastic. Like there's so many certifications on the packet that you just know that they're the real deal.

And I always kind of hold a teak as a mental model or an example in My head because they're really hard to hate because everything they're doing is really good. They've got great products, it smells great, it feels great, it's ethically, you know, sourced, it's environmentally friendly. It's really hard to look at them and go, yeah, but you're not doing this. Whereas I think, you know, that, that for me is, is what you need to ask yourself as a company is if, you know, if this was front page news, if people found out actually how we do this, would, would there be riots in the street or actually would people be giving us medals and commending us for how amazing we are? And, and deep down I think we all know where we're not doing what we should be doing in our businesses. And then, you know, it's a case of acknowledging that and then working on it. And I think, yeah, that's, that's the greenwashing. But you know, equally there's also the green hushing which is where you've got companies doing amazing stuff who don't want to talk about it for fear that they're going to be accused of greenwashing. And again, this is, this is where I kind of bring it back to B Corp. It's like, well, if you've been independently verified and it's authentic and you're generally doing it, tell that story because people want to hear those stories. It's if you're, you know, making it up or you're making it bigger than it actually is. Yeah, you shouldn't be doing it. But yeah, I guess it's like the Goldilocks school of marketing. Not too hot, not too cold, just right. Look, do some good stuff. We're not perfect, but we're doing the best we can.

Yeah. And thinking about the generations going forward and how like Gen Z and the other people who are becoming a lot more environmentally conscious than say myself who grew up in the single use plastic zone. I think that it's, it's good education, you know, and like you said, it's very simple kind of thing. I think I could liken it to the fact like if you want to go and make a health claim on your say, you want to say it's high in protein, then by regulations you have to have it. You know, it has to be represented on your nutritional info, otherwise you can't make that claim. So what you're trying, what essentially a B corp is doing is it's the backup, it's the, it's that certificate, it's that part of the nutritional Information for the environment that says, you know, actually, yeah, what they're saying, when they're saying it's plastic free, when they're saying it's comes from organically certified farms, when it comes from this, when it comes to that, then absolutely, it's, it's fine.

Yeah.

So when we think about products and you say there are only very few New Zealand brands that are, are doing this, why do you think that is? Do you think that has a lot to do with the fact that in New Zealand we.

We have to source from overseas from unknown suppliers a lot of the time.

So I think, I mean there's increasing numbers of B Corps coming through in New Zealand. So we're currently at 100. But there is a large number of companies going through the process right now. So it's definitely, you know, getting there. And it's like I said, it's definitely being led by that FMCG consumer brand sector. I think where, where locally there's, there's probably more reticence. Is, is that true? Lack of customer recognition. But I think that's changing. So more often than not the companies that we're helping with B Corp. Are export focused companies who see B Corp, you know, as a ticket to that credibility in an overseas market. Whereas if they were just selling locally, they might be less, you know, convinced that it was something that they should be doing right now. But what we're seeing is as more companies that are local who are exporting now have the logo in supermarket or in store in New Zealand, that's now putting pressure on the sector, you know, broadly to go, okay, actually, you know, so I guess like in the food sector, you know, peanut butter is a great example. There's Fix and Fog and Picks, Peanut Butter, both B Corp, both New Zealand based companies. Fix and Fog very much. You know, it was part of their US entry strategy, but it's still on the logos in the supermarket here in New Zealand. So all of a sudden now if you're in the peanut butter or the nut butter range. Okay, well the two, sort of, probably the two biggest brands, you know, in New Zealand are both B Corp. So there's now pressure in your sector to go, okay, hang on a minute, maybe we should look at this. Yeah, so yeah, I think, I think that local pressure is coming.

Because you know, even some of the big brands, you know, like Unilever, Australia, New Zealand is now a B Corp. So I think the first brands that are coming through, so not all of their brands are B Corp certified, but I think it's like Magnum, Heril and one of the shampoo brands are going to have the B Corp logo in store pretty soon. So. Yeah, so all of a sudden you get a big player in the market. You know, for you, if you're the small, small to medium, you know, kind of like battler trying to take on, on the big guys. Well, okay, all of a sudden, you know, B Corp is maybe table stakes because for credibility around your social advisory performance if the big guys can get it and you're trying to tackle them based on health or environmental impact claims. You know, we're talking to someone yesterday in a, I guess like in the food and beverage sector and, and they were like oh look, we, we kind of want to do B Corp but we're just not sure because there's, there's a couple of global, you know, almost multinational type companies in our sector and we, and we just don't really, we think we're better than them. And I said, well that's, I get it. And you might be kind of wondering, well, how come they got B Corp? Well, they've met the requirements, they've, they've passed the test. So, so they are a B Corp. So I sort of said, well really your best response is just to be a better B Corp than them, you know, and, and outperform them and be able to demonstrate that with the data and go, yes, these guys are good, but actually we're better than that. And this is how, and this is why. And then use the verification, use the impact, you know, use the certification framework to tell the story of where you're doing the good. And they were like, okay, yeah, we see a point.

Oh, that's awesome. What are, what are some of the commonalities that come up with, if there are any in particular say in that. So if we talk in food and beverage, what are there any commonalities that come up with the New Zealand brands with issues, you know, with getting that score up? Like say for example, obviously we talked about supply chain, but are there anything that come, any kind of things that come up or any, I guess, tips or solutions you might have for those issues with people?

Yeah, I mean supply chain hands down is, is continually time after time. That is the big area. The other one would be measurement and reporting of environmental performance. So waste management, management of emissions, power usage. Quite often companies might be using a, you know, third party manufacturer or have third party distribution and it's, it's suddenly a bit harder to measure or you know, even if they have their own facility measuring energy usage and water usage. But if you're in a shared facility with other manufacturers or other retailers, you can't get that level of detail on what your power bill or what your water usage is. So that's, those would be the two biggest areas. But again, it's kind of reassuring because as more and more people are having that problem or looking to get that solution, they're now going to their landlords and saying, hey, actually I'd like you to split out what my power bill is and I'd like you to find out how much water we are using, because I actually want to measure that. So. And we get, we, we hear from clients that they get mixed responses from landlords. Some of them are on that journey themselves, others are kind of like, I really don't care about what your power usage is, just keep paying the rent and we're all happy. So, yeah, those would be the two. And say, yeah, the supply chain, we're just seeing a lot of people and our advice is kind of always, year one, just get B Corp, don't, don't sweat about becoming a better company. Just, just get even if you sneak in with an 80.1, like, get the B Corp, get the benefit of having the certification and being able to tell that story and then look at where you need to make the improvements. And so, yeah, we've got a lot of clients who we're now working with and introducing them to other experts around that supply chain to get that. And you know, phase one as anything is always just awareness. Like actually, and that, in fact, that would be probably the one, one big piece of advice and that's something that we help people with is, you know, send a survey and reach out to your suppliers and just tell them, hey, this social and environmental impact stuff is important to us and we're about to go through this process of measuring our footprint and as part of that, we want to have a conversation with you. And I'd probably say most of the time, you know, most suppliers in people's supply chains, they won't be the only company that's asking them that information all of a sudden.

I think, I think you would probably find that more and more people, more.

And more it's happening, would be asking.

Them and stuff like that, I think probably, and, and I mean, you can absolutely clear the air on this and that a lot of New Zealand food and beverage companies are obviously ordering and then when I talk about packaging in particular, are going to be ordering packaging out of China. Yep, China, obviously not having an Amazing reputation for their, you know, from a consumer perspective they're amazing perspective sort of, you know, on being particularly environmentally friendly. Would you agree with that or would you say that there are challenges based around there and what can people do about that?

Yeah, I mean I guess there's two parts to that. So, so the packaging one is just a nightmare. There is, there are often, or most, most times there are very few obvious choices where one is significantly better than the other when it comes to packaging. Even when it comes down to glass, you know, you kind of go, well glass is infinitely recyclable, yes but it's heavier. Therefore we're making more emissions, more pollution when we ship it. A lot of the bioplastics, you know, actually aren't biodegradable. So there's claims. So it just, you know, in the end you kind of just go. One of our clients, gourmets, they do like pet treats. So it's all like, like human grade food for pets. They spent about 18 months examining their packaging and I think in the end they almost went back to where they started and they've gone down this, it's like there's no good solution. But again as more and more companies are going actually this isn't good enough and consumers are pushing back, it's not going to be long. A mate of mine says, you know, there's a 16 year old somewhere in the world who's invented the packaging solution. We just haven't found them yet. You know they've done, they've done some school projects and they're just waiting to be picked up by some, some big company or investor and they're going to, they'll solve that. But yes, the more and more pressure you can put as a manufacturer or as a company on your packaging to supplier to say actually like this isn't good enough. You know, there's enough companies now that want the solution that I think the solution will be coming.

In terms of the China one. I think that's a really interesting one because you know, yes, there are clear and obvious, you know, labor violation, right or labor rights violations and environmental, you know, violations. And I think they put like, was it 50 new coal, coal powered fire station, coal fired power stations online in China last year or a couple of years ago. So yeah, it's, it's, you know, there's stuff going on over there that's not great. But equally you look at companies like you may who have got a standard of manufacturing in China where they have reintroduced artisan, handcrafted, you know, knowledge into manufacturing in China and you know, top level manufacturing facility with great labor conditions, with great environmental conditions. So I think again for me it's, it's that case of transitioning from the mindset of you know, if you, if you're, if you've been following the for profit mindset then yeah, obviously you will go and find the cheapest suppliers because that's what makes the most sense. Like we, you know, cheap, cheap input sell it for the highest cost or highest price. We're winning. So I think it's on, on each individual company to think about what actually where are we sourcing from? And I think there's a lot of companies again that we've, we've worked with on their B corp where they're now having that conversation with their supplier to say actually do you know what, we want to work with you and that, and you get points recognition on the B corp assessment for working with your supply chain to increase their standards. So I think, yeah, I mean Eagle Protect is another great example. So they would B Corp number one in New Zealand they sell single use disposable rubber gloves for food hygiene, you know, sort of processing and medical devices or medical clinics. And you know, they are really hot on their supply chain because Steve, the CEO, he has waxed lyrical for years about, you know, most of the rubber gloves that are being used in most of the food processing or food handling and medical clinics around the world actually are coming from factories where there are significant labor, you know, labor law violations. And there's, he's got photos of factories where there are cockroaches and bugs walking all over the gloves that have been packed into a box and sold as a sterile glove into a medical facility. You know, so he, he went out of his way from day one to go. We want to cut that out of the industry. We want to be the company that has that reliable environmentally and socially responsible product. So you know, and he has found that and he's worked with his supply chain. So you know, there's good and bad happening in New Zealand, there's good and bad happening in the uk, us, Australia. There's good and bad happening everywhere. It's, it's up for you to be aware of what's going on and have that conversation. But yeah, I wouldn't just discount the entire, you know, Chinese market because of some bad practices. When like I say Umay is a great example where they've worked with that supply chain and they've, they've shared knowledge and, and shared, you know, created the standard that they want to operate at and they're, they're smashing it.

Oh, that's so cool. Yeah. I've got a couple of factories in China that I've sought out for packaging actually and, and speak, spoken to the workers and various things. And I know where they are, I know what their factory looks like. Because for me it's important. Like I feel now feel responsible like if any of my clients are going to go for B Corp and I put them onto packaging suppliers, it's like, well, it's important for me and it's important for people in the industry and other designers who are doing these brands and to also understand that we should be part of the change as well.

Yep, 100%. And I think that's the thing, you know, and that's what, that's why I think B Corp is increasingly becoming popular because you're having that input, the customers having that input. There's all these nodes of influence that are saying to the company, hey, we want to know what's going on. We want you to be doing the best that you can. And I think that's always the thing for me is like, you know, don't, don't feel stressed if you're not perfect because there is no 200 point B corp. No one has one B corp yet. Everyone's on the journey somewhere. But start, just start measuring today and see where you're at and do what you can with the resources that you've got, with the time and humans that you've got available to just. And that's why we call our B Corp program Be Better. It's like just be slightly better than you were yesterday. No one's expecting you to become perfect overnight. You know, it's all a journey.

That's awesome. And so once somebody gets, once somebody goes through the process and it's able to use that on their packaging, what is, what happens from then? Is that it or is there any sort of follow up that happens?

Yeah. So in terms of the B Corp journey, so if you, let's say if you certified in this year 2023, you would now recertify in 2026. So it's a three year recertification cycle. So during those three years, the key really is to bake in any changes that you did make on that. You know, if there were small changes, policies, procedures or updates to how you do stuff, you want to really bake those in and make sure that KPIs are spread across the company so that you know that people are tracking the metrics that you're now, you know, you're now tracking. But then really the plan over that three year period is to work out how do you go beyond your initial score. So again that the framework is really useful for downloading and you can basically do a gap analysis on where you haven't scored points, where you have scored points and kind of go, right, well these are all the points available. Let's just have a look like what, what can we do? But I think also as part of that it's really important to do some stakeholder engagement. And again, you know, the B Corp certification journey, it's, it's really powerful. I would 100 recommend you have to bring your team on the journey because there's so much value you get out of bringing your tip because your team will be excited and inspired by knowing that you're wanting to be the best business you can be. But also then bringing your customers and other stakeholders, suppliers, investors into the on the journey with you and saying, look, we've got some areas here where we want to improve what's important for you because it's a massive, you know, if you've got limited resources and you can only spend X amount of time, money and, and labor on fixing stuff or being better in your, you want to try and do the most impactful stuff for you and your stakeholders, you know, and the planet and community. So it's really key that you understand and even down to the point of, you know, impact measurement and really working out because I guess there's some classic examples like Tom shoes who used to buy one, give one and once they actually started measuring the impact, they realized it was making more negative impact than you know, they were thinking it was only going to be positive, but they hadn't considered. Actually in some of these places people don't want shoes and so us giving away a pair of shoes is actually not that useful and we're creating more landfill and now what happens to the shoes? So that's a really key part of it. Sometimes we have really well intentioned ideas as to how we want to do more good. But sometimes you're actually putting the car in, into reverse and sixth gear and smashing it backwards. So yeah, understand actually what impact are we going to have? Think about unintended consequences, work out what impact is worth you pursuing that is going to make the most difference and mean something to the people around you. Otherwise, you know, you're going to die on a hill that no one cares about.

Yeah, so tell us a little, tell us a little bit about be better about what it is that specifically about what it is that you do that can help people with B Corp. Yep.

So essentially we are all about speeding up the process for you to get your B Corp done, making it a bit more fun and making it just quicker and easier. So like I say, you can go to, if you, if you just Google B Impact assessment, you can go and find the B Corp online assessment tool. You can register for an account that is completely free. It always has been free and I imagine it always will be free. And so you can go and have a play with that. Pretty much what we find is, is, you know, people are busy, they don't understand the questions entirely. They misinterpret some of the questions and they think that they need lots of evidence and reporting to be able to answer the questions. And so really what we are is almost like a translator or like an after school tutor where we just sit down with you and I guess it's like an open book exam, but the you haven't been given the book yet and then you get the book and it's in Swahili. And so we are the translators of Swahili, as it were. So we can help you understand what the questions mean, provide you some advice around. Okay, look, you're currently getting 0.25 of a point at a 1 point available here. For you to get the remaining points, actually all you need to be able to do is do abc. Do you think you can do that? And you go, yeah, actually we can easily do that. Right, okay, well that's your homework. Go do that. You'll be able to get those points. And we've also got a ton of resources, so we call it our magic folder. So we've got over 300 different examples, templates and other supporting documents. So for example, the really common ones would be smaller companies typically don't have a code of ethics, a whistleblower policy and an ethical marketing policy. Well, those are three policies that if you do have, you're going to get some points for. So as long as you're not, you know, spiritually opposed to having any of those policies in your business, we've got a template, it's yours, you know, implement it, tell the team, hey, we now have one client said our code of ethics. The best time to tell everyone we've got one of those is the week before the Christmas party. And I stand by that. I think that's a really great time to launch a code of ethics. So you know, you can and that's, those are like classic examples of like implementing little changes that are quite easy to do. That just lets the team know, hey, actually, you know, like we're growing up a little bit or actually, you know, how we operate is really important to us. And we help Genora with their B Corp. And one thing Monique, the founder and Colleen that the CEO says is because they built the business, it was all in their head and they just presumed that all the staff knew how, you know, what, what was in terms of like days off or extra leave days or working from home or you know, flexi hours, like little things like that. They just presumed everyone knew it. And everyone was like, no, I had no idea that we could do that. And it was going through the B Corp process where they had to write all that stuff down and put it in an employee handbook and it was like, well, we had no idea.

That's wonderful.

So yeah, so yeah, we're all about just speeding up the process, helping you do it, you know, helping you get to that 80 points really is what we're all about. And then beyond that we've got our own client community, a digital community which we bring everyone into there and you know, we're, for us, we, we almost take it as a given that will help you get your B Corp as long as you're doing what, what needs to be done. What we're really about then is, is helping you thrive as a B Corp. So connecting you with other people in our network. Yeah. Helping you then work out actually how do we blow out the other side of B Corp and become a really high scoring B Corp that's making a whole lot of change in the world.

Oh, that's wonderful. And lastly, what if you had any hopes for the future for B Corp and just in general and that say the food and beverage industry, what would you like to see say in the next five to ten years happen?

Yeah. So I guess, you know my, my dream since connecting to the B Corp movement is that really all businesses would have to account for their, for the impact of their operations. So you know, at the minute you pretty much your only fiduciary duty as a, as a CEO or director of a company is to file your tax return and trade legally. I think for me it would be really great to see within that five to ten year time that actually, even if, even if IRD at a basic level could just say, hey, have you measured and reported your environmental impact this year? Yes or no. And have you made any contribution to your community either through volunteering hours or through charitable donations. Yes.

I think we'll get beyond that. I think B Corp is increasingly. It's getting recognition at local, regional, national government levels. People are seeing that it's a thing. So, yeah, the big vision would be that pretty much operating as a B Corp standard would just become business as usual.

Wonderful. Oh, that's awesome. Hey, thank you so much for your time today, Tim. I'll get some from you afterwards so that people can get in contact with you if they're keen to go through the process. Thank you for all that you do for the environment and for people in general with B Corp. And it was really awesome to chat with you today.

Thanks for having me.

Hey, it's Tim here, that B Corp bloke from Grow Good. If you want more content on purpose, B Corp. How to do more good in the world as an individual or a business, then you know the drill. Hit the like and subscribe. Check out some other videos. They're probably floating around here somewhere. You know how it works. Thank you so much. See you next time.