#64 AWWA Period Care cofounder Kylie Matthews is leading a planet-friendly, period empowerment revolution

Hey, kia ora. And welcome back to the latest episode of the Be Better Podcast. And with me today, I have the amazing Kylie from our period care. Kylie, how's it going?

It's going good, thank you, Tim. Kia ora.

Excellent. It's always going good because we're growing good. You're growing good. There's just good everywhere. It's just fountains of good. So for people who don't know who Carly is and who don't know who our our period care are, tell us a little bit about who you are.

All right, well, just kick off with my mahi so in your manner. Hoepa Tenakoto. Tenakoto. Tenakoto. Kato ngo inga rangi okutepuna etai okuna kiaoteroa te ito 1860 e tepu aki o ki tamaki ma ki waiharakiki inaene kawhi the hills ngamoanga erune takunako kotimawana nui a kiwa ki puketie in mahine aku maharahara ko sky rato ko ebony ko logan aku tamariki ki awa aho e mahiana Kailee Matthews. Aho. So.

My ancestors came over from England and Scotland around 1860, and I grew up and lived in Auckland and moved to the beautiful sunny Blenheim a couple of years ago. Down here.

I've got seven children. I just did introduce three of them on that. I've got three of my own children and four stepchildren as well. So a bit about me. I guess when people ask you who you are, you tend to jump into giving yourself all of these labels, like, based on the roles that you have, like, I'm a mother, I'm a wife, I'm an employee. But I guess when we want to really find out who we are and it's about what our core values are and what gets us up in the morning. So it's really important, I think, to think about that and to peel back the layers and reflect on what's important to us and what we're passionate about. So for me, if I think about that, like, who am I when I peel back the layers?

Being part of something with purpose is really important to me, something that drives me to get up in the morning and where I know that I'm having a positive impact. And because of that, I'm really passionate about sustainability and being part of the solution and not the problem. And I guess one of my main mottos in life is that I treat others the way I want to be. Treated, which is with respect and kindness.

So that's me. And then on top of that, I have all of the other labels. I'm a mother, I'm a wife, I'm a. I'm the taxi driver, I'm the chef, I'm the coach, I'm the. The mediator between all of the. The kids. Chaos.

Nice.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, with seven kids, there's gonna be a bit of chaos. I'd imagine we have enough chaos with one child. Times that by seven. That how you do it? And thank you for that, Mickey, because you're the first person guest on the podcast to do it at Mickey. So go you. So thank you for that. For those people listening outside of New Zealand, I guess mihy is a sort of formal and. Or traditional way of introducing yourself from. From the Mori world, which is one of the. I guess. Well, it's one of the. One of the three recognized languages or official languages in New Zealand. So we have English, Maori and sign language as our official languages. So you get a crash course in Kiwi culture or New Zealand culture, Mori culture. And I guess it's. It's the, would we say traditional way of how people introduce themselves. When you meet, you know, in the Maori world, there's a. I remember there was a guy, I can't remember his name though.

He.

He was a reformed banker from Westpac and he was talking at a conference I was talking about a few years ago in Nelson actually, and he talked about how, like, typically when people from his IWI meet each other, the first thing they ask is, what's your name? The second thing they ask you is, so what kind of what's your name? And sort of what Iwi or hapu are you from? Um, where, Where. Where are you from? So where or where do you currently live? What do you do in terms of what. What do you provide to the Iwi? But the last question they asked was, what's your purpose? And I thought, well, that's just a bit of a different lens on when you meet someone at an awkward networking event. Oh, you know. Yeah. What's your purpose? Uh, I don't know what's purpose. Yeah. So that's cool. And I think what you. When, like you say when people ask, who are you? It's. I like when you. When you ask the question, where are you from? Depending on what, on your mindset, you can kind of go, well, I've just come from work through to. Well, my ancestors came over in 1860 and they were originally from Scotland or England or Wales. Yeah. So lots of depth to all these questions.

And the other beautiful thing about it Mihi is that it identifies parts of Papatunuku about around the Earth in terms of what resonates with you. So with the hills of the mountain and the way I spoke that it says that the wither hills are the mountain that speaks to my heart.

Yeah.

The Pacific Ocean at White's Bay, which is our beautiful beach here in Blenheim is the water that alleviates my worries. So it's that connection that with. With your surroundings with.

Yeah.

And. And that's why you get to this I'm sure as well. But why I think that the B Corp movement and the Te Ao Mori worldview have such alignment because of the way that we have. They both look at people and putting planet and people first.

Yep. And having that combination that. That context together rather than isolation. Yeah, totally. So before we get into some more. Some really, really deep stuff. So just. So tell us a little bit about. Yeah. What you're currently up to. So our Period Care is your. Is your. Your business. So yeah. Tell us a little bit about what. What you do and. And what the purpose and impact of. Of the amazing businesses that you are running.

Yes. So our Period Care we are period underwear. So basically that means people who have not familiar with it. It is an alternative to all other menstrual products.

Takes away the need for all single use pads and tampons. They're literally just like your normal underwear and you just switch them up when you've got your period and you can wash them with your clothes and normal clothes and line dry them. So it's a real simple transformation for. For people to get their head around like I've got my period. I'll just switch to my hours and my role there is the PO Manawataki which is the translated as the Chief Operating Officer. So manage all of our supply chain procurement sourcing that are charged to become a B Corp certified business.

And we've been. We launched our in October 2018 via a Kickstarter campaign. Sort of thought yep, let's see if we can make this go. And we smashed our target within about 48 hours and ended up getting almost about triple what we set out to achieve. Which then again caused its own sort of logistics challenges.

We're just a wash in money. What do we do with it all?

I guess I mean how the business came about is my business partner Michelle and I she's Mori and had been been had. We both had our own successful businesses before AWA and.

We, Michelle had been looking and studying like Rongo, like natural Mori healing and had been diving deeper into her journey into the Te Ao Mori world and learning about her whakapapa and had was exploring pre colonization how Mori managed their ikura, which is your period. And for me between us we've got four daughters and.

You know we wanted better for our girls. We didn't want them their introduction to period products to be single use pads and tampons. Yeah, we want, we knew that there was better out there and we went and did this research and you know I had a business prior to our called Kai carrier which was single, which was reusable food pouches and packaging to take away the need from all single use packaging. So for me I've been so passionate about sustainability and.

Recognizing that we are only the guardians of Papatuanuku and that it's incredibly important that we, we're nurturing and we, we're doing everything that we can to hand this planet down to our children and our grandchildren in a better state than what we got it in. So we joined forces and created our nice.

And here you are. That's cool. Super cool story. And had you or had you been as immersed in the sort of Teo Maori world as well as Michelle or was that something that Michelle has she brought you on that journey? Yeah. What was your sort of connection with that side of it?

Yeah, I've always been.

Really passionate about.

The Mori worldview and in my previous role before starting businesses I was a social worker. So I worked as a youth justice social worker for what was Child Youth and Family now Oranga Tamariki for a number of years and also that overseas in London. So you know, unfortunately I have had, I've worked with a lot of Mori over the years because they fit into that category of being really a lot of the young offenders that came to our attention were Mori. So I've worked with Mori in that space for quite some time. So I've always had a really, I've done my best to have a deep understanding of the culture so that in all of my interactions that I was being respectful and also being able to recognize and identify needs specific to them. Not coming in from a western worldview because that hasn't worked. So I've always felt, felt that I've been somewhat immersed in that space. But yeah, I'm not Mori myself.

Yeah, cool. So getting into social work.

From social work into trying to fix the food problem into you know, getting up, getting away from single use disposable period care. Was that always the plan for young Kylie? So young Kylie, growing up, were you always a bit of like an eco warrior, justice warrior? Were you born and sort of raised in that kind of environment or did you? Yeah, like what was the attraction? Because clearly there's this deep desire to help people help planet. Where does that come from?

I think that that desire to help has always been there, hence why, you know, like, I knew I wanted to be a social worker from when I was about 14 years old and that was always what I was going to go and do at university and particularly I'd always wanted to work with offenders and so I always thought like, you know, you go to university, you think that that's going to be your career for life. So that's what I thought I'd be doing and just, you know, it's purpose driven. You're helping to bring about change. Like, I truly believe that there's good in everybody and we just have to help them, you know, find that and help them, you know, grab hold of that and move to the light with it.

I was really fortunate in my childhood of having, you know, the good old Kiwi batch experiences. We had a beautiful batch up in the Bay of Islands which was, you know, boat access only. We used to have to row across the bay. Our long drop toilet was sort of a five minute walk up into the bush. This is before the day is a solar shower. So there was, if it was hot water, you know, if there was no sun out, you had a cold shower. Just deal with it all days. Just down on the beach, exploring the rock pools, lucky enough to be able to go out fishing. And so I've always had that connection with nature. And then just as I've grown into adulthood and seeing what's happening globally, I've gone far out. We really need to do something. Like, it almost scared me having children thinking, well, we'll probably be okay, but what, what are my children going to be bringing their children up in?

The first business idea really came when my oldest daughter was seven months old and I had started making all my own homemade baby food, you know, and I wanted to do that. And it was when those sucky baby food pouches had just started to explode. So popular. And I was like, oh gosh, these sort of look really handy and good, but they're everything that I stand for. Like I do all my own homemade food and I really couldn't fathom throwing out single use plastic like that. So I remember with her on my hip, I went searching like all of these camping stores being like, if you got these things that I can put my condiments in. And they just looked at me like I was crazy. And I was like, well, well, I want this some. It must.

Yeah. There's going to be one other person, surely.

Yeah. And so I sort of did research and couldn't find it. And I just remember thinking to myself, I was like, right, if I can come up with a name for this business, I'm going to do it. Like, you know, I had this, like, head battle. My head was going, you're on paternity leap. Like, you're crazy. You keep the other one. No, no, no, no. You're driven and you're ambitious and, like, if you can come up with a name for this, then you're going to have to do this, you know? So I was sitting there and I was like, I had to have the word Kai because Kylie get called Kai and then Kylie Food as well.

Love it.

And I literally. I was like, Kai Carrier. And I just remember going, crap. Now.

I've now implicated myself. Damn it. Yeah.

And. And so I went away and did that and I really started that with no knowledge, which is proof that you can pivot and you can start something where you don't have that knowledge and grow into it. I called out my friends who I was like, do you know how I could find somebody to help me with plastic manufacturing? And I roped in some of my other friends to design my logo and build my website. And.

Yeah, it just sort of went from there. Grew pretty organically. And then I was like, right, I actually need to have a bit of a plan about this growing. Managed to get arranged in, like, Progressive Foods, the warehouse foodies. So it's, It's. And it's still going really, really well.

Fantastic. So did you. Did you sell the business to someone?

The business? Yeah. Once Power got too busy to manage.

That one, which is reasonable. Yeah. Between seven kids, two businesses. Yeah, we'll let you off. Yeah. One of the businesses. He's such a slacker. You're like, have you met Beck Smith from the whole story? You and her would probably get on. She's a vet, a farmer and a mum and she's got her own consulting business helping other farmers integrate sustainability. What do you. When. When do you sleep, Bex?

I think, you know, I think it's fair to say that typically, you know, the wives, the mums, the women of the family are. You just. You're stronger and harder than us blokes. You've got More energy, you've got more ability to carry bigger loads. I don't know what we're doing half the time as blokes we're just clearly underachie, just relying on our amazing wives and mothers, sisters.

Yeah, I do reflect on that sometimes. If I had looked at like you know, my 25 year old self and gone, you know, when you're 39 you'd be doing this, this and this would be like, whoa, how on earth am I going to do that?

I could be, I could barely write an essay but by one deadline, it's six months time.

Yeah, I guess you keep building and adding those blocks, you know. Oh yeah, you just fly with it.

And I think that's the thing, you know, when you talk about, you know, you had this idea for a business. Well if, if you've been working with you know, at risk youth who are in a tough situation, you've clearly got some now to be able to, I mean obviously you've been trained in it but still the ability to handle possibly quite confronting tough situations and be negotiating with people who maybe don't want to even be talking to you and having, you know, and then when, I mean even when my wife, she runs her own business, shout out to Happy Monday co nz. You know when she first got into business. Oh, I don't, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm like, but you've just spent two years being a mum. You know how to negotiate with someone who is, you know, unnegotiable with project management skills, time management, entertainment. There's a raft of skills that I think typically mums getting back into the workforce forget that they've actually you have been managing a very uncom, typically uncompliant human for maybe a few years. There's a lot of skills that you learn there. So I think, yeah but I think for anyone in general just if, if you don't give it a go in 20 years time you'll look back going oh I really, you know, if only I'd launched that KAI carrier. Oh that would have been, you know, I think, yeah, give it a go because the worst that could happen is it, it's a success and you have to go and do it.

Yeah, exactly. And I think that's always been my sort of mentality is yeah you know, like no regrets. I don't want to live a life with any regrets and 100%, yeah, I call myself a risk taker. I'd like to think I'm a calculated risk taker but like, I'm willing to give things a shot. What's the risk on this? What? Yeah, what's the worst that can happen? And I'm like, well, that's actually not too bad. Yeah, and I'm going to grow and I'm going to have all of these cool experiences and meeting people along the way. So actually, why not 100%?

I mean, as long as there's no sort of risk to life or limb, pretty much you're going to be okay. I mean, clearly this, we are not business advisors. This is not legal or financial advice, but, you know, just give it a go.

Well, something else I was going to say on the back of that, but. Oh, yeah, I guess the other thing, you know, in this day and age, if you come up with an idea, it's pretty easy. Like you could go and get a wix website or a weebly website for free and you can knock up an idea and you can put it on the Internet and you could probably spend 200 bucks running some ads against it and see if you get a customer. Or as. As you did, just go to your friends and family and say, hey, this is a thing. Have I got rocks in my head or is this a thing? And most people will pretty quickly say, I don't really think anyone's gonna buy that I love you, but yeah, I'm not buying that. Or they'll be like, oh my gosh. They're like, that is so cool. So I think yet.

There'S quite a. It seems, it seems to be a generational thing as well. I've done a bit of mentoring at UC over the years, University of Canterbury, and the number of kids at uni who seem to have got some social and environmentally impactful side hustle. It seems to be almost all of them. Whereas I guess when you and I were at university. Well, for me I barely even knew where the library was, let alone, you know, having a business on the side. So, yeah, barrier to entry is pretty low. So, yeah, just give it a go.

Knew where the pub was.

I definitely knew where the pub was.

Yeah.

Both of them. Yeah.

That was about it.

Yeah.

Anyway, we're all here now. We've got. We got our degrees. Yeah.

So you did. You did the Kai carrier and then so what? At what point did Aria. Sorry, Aria. Our. Sort of pop up on the radar when you were doing tie carry, was there a specific moment of realization or had it been something just sort of been bubbling away for a while? Yeah. How did, how did you suddenly go. I know I haven't got enough on my plate. I'd like to start another business.

Like 2018. And we just, Michelle and I sort of came together and looked at it and thought like, this is a really great opportunity, like, remember us in those early stages, like.

And B Corp was on my radar. I, I was literally like, well it's got to have this sort of, you know, we're creating the sustainable product. But like, let's take that a bit further. Like through my work as a social worker having, you know, worked with these families and the common theme among all of them was poverty. Really struggling on that day to day, really struggling to be able to put food on the table for their whnau. And you know, what resonated with me and what I began to understand is like, if you can't actually afford to put food on the table, you're certainly not going to be able to afford to purchase period products. And sometimes you've got multiple women in a household, mom, two or three daughters and the cost of that's just, it's not achievable. And so what I noticed that then as I was having these clients I was working with and they were frequently missing school and when I actually deep dived into that, it was, it wasn't necessarily because I didn't want to go to school, it was because they were like, I can't go to school, I've got my period, I've got nothing to use for.

And so had to address that as a social worker and things like that. But then starting this, I thought this is a real opportunity, that period poverty does still exist. It's a real issue. And let's see, let's do our part to help eradicate period poverty. And you know, it's not eradicating period poverty, it's about reducing the inequalities between the genders. It's about ensuring that, you know, those who have got their period can still go to work and go to school and are not missing out on that crucial education or losing their positions because they're having too many days off sick because they can't explain to their boss why they can't come in again today. And so there was a real need there. And that's what we've done with AWA has really helped try and plug that.

Nice. And the name awa, any significance to that? Where did that come from?

So awa, spelled a wa is the Mori word for river.

Yep.

Traditionally mori referred to their periods as te AWA atua, which means the divine river. They Viewed their periods, their ikura, as something to be celebrated because it represented that move into womanhood of the ability to continue on your family lineage. And so when.

Mori first got their periods, it was a celebration. It was quite often where they would get the kamuko and.

The women were really well looked after when they had their periods in terms of that. The men would pick up the workload, the woman would be encouraged to go and take rest and to do what they needed to do in that space to be able to get through those times. Because as a female, you know, getting your period every month, for some it's worse than others. But you know, you'll have these mood swings sometimes or you like lose it over something. You're like, whoa. And it's like, oh yeah, my periods.

Really? What, what is this you talk of?

And you know, for others it's, it's that crippling pain and it's not. Well.

It'S now with the western worldview about coming in, like when New Zealand was colonized and it was, they came with the view of your period is like a sickness, it's an illness, so you almost be ostracized at that time. And because of that it's been seen as really shameful. And so it's, it's something that people don't really talk about. And that's one of the, what we're trying to achieve with AWA is to decolonize periods through the indigenous messaging that we have and looking at traditional wisdoms and the way that you can nurture and look after yourself when you have your ecura. And on the other side, like smashing the taboos around periods, making them less shameful, less fuck them up. Like why? I mean, I remember being at high school, I went to an all girls school and being like, oh, I've got my period, I really need to go change. And like, like reaching into my school bag and like trying to shove this tampon up my jumper sleeve because I don't want anybody else to see that. And I, I reflect on that and go, what am I thinking?

Like, particularly at an all girls school.

Like exactly 100 of us was experienced at the same time as me, but we behaved like that because that was the way that we'd been. We don't really talk about your periods. I think what I'm really excited about is with my daughters now is even my like speak so openly about it. Like for them it's just going to be like something that happens, just pretty normal and just.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think, yeah, there's this whole connection to older belief systems and. Yeah, I think that's where. In this sort of postmodern Western world where it's all about rationality, science, logic, reason. Yeah, that's. That's great. And I'm not saying that we don't need any of that, but connection to sort of myth, story. You know, the idea of the divine feminine and. And the fact that, you know, the female is the. You know, the one who is gonna. Was that if. You got a bit of an earthquake there, but, yeah. Oh, wow, you're good. Yeah, it's the divine feminine. Papa Tunuku is speaking to us through the. She's. She's happy with your work, hopefully.

Um, yeah, it was just a little one.

Just a little one. Well, yeah, not feeling anything here, so who knows? Might be coming our way soon. Um, yeah. So for those of you not in New Zealand. New Zealand is known as the Shaky Isles. They don't tell you that when you move here, just FYI. So be careful reading the tourist brochures before you move over here, as I did. Um, yeah. You know, this connection to the idea of the divine feminine and. And that. That is a. You know, it is vital, the role that women play in, you know, you are the. The bearers of the next generation of. Of humanity. And. And that's the same for any species. It's mostly it. You know, the feminine is the. Is the. I guess, the vehicle for a better word of the next generation. And. Yeah, the fact that we kind of don't talk about that or connect to that. Yeah, it is. It is like you say, that Western sort of democratized world. Oh, you know, shame all people's bodies. Oh, it's a bit. I guess it's that sort of Victorian British ickiness about talking about anything that we shouldn't, you know, shouldn't be talking about, that we still carry perhaps that good Scottish Presbyterian basis of New Zealand.

And it's not just about.

Destigmatizing and, like, smashing the taboos around it for us whine. It's actually about beginning to engage men in the space because men are the husbands, the fathers, the brothers, the cousins, the uncles.

Yeah.

So they're. They're around people who are getting married all the time. And so it's also about changing the narrative for you guys. And actually, like, it's very simple. Like, you could have the same words and have two different things. Like you can have the husband who's, like, doesn't really understand it or doesn't really want to or doesn't want to be supportive of how you might be feeling because you're feeling like crap, you know, which can happen and be like oh why are you being so grumpy? Have you got your period? Or you like change the narrative and be like oh hon, like are you feeling pretty rubbish? Like yeah, period. Would you like me to make you a cup of tea? Same words, different tone. Yeah, completely different. Like it's not having that empathy, it's about just having that little bit of understanding and like, you know, as you were talking about before about the capabilities of females and what we can achieve and everything that we can do. Like we're also incredibly strong. Like yeah but at the same time it doesn't mean that we don't deserve to have.

Yeah 100. A little bit of support.

You know.

100. Yeah. No, I'm, I feel like when I live with my wife, my daughter and my mother in law so I'm in a pretty eastern filled world so I feel like I have no choice but to get on board to a degree. But I'd like to think I'm a fairly modern guy. My dad, he passed away a few years ago but yeah, he, he was kind of like well the first time he met my wife, my wife is a fairly strong willed independent lady.

He'd been over for about a week staying at our place and we were about to go on a bit of a tour around south island together and his final comment to my wife was so there's some washing on the floor in my room if that could be done by the time I'm back.

Watch this. Yeah, yeah, that's not going to happen Bob. Washing machines in the garage. Knock yourself out. So I think, I like to think that the modern, the modern male in general is slightly more attuned to the idea of that equality in the house and sharing the workload. Particularly as I think you know in this day and age more and more wives, mothers are working either through choice or through necessity. It just seems to be everyone we know. There's very few couples we know where one, one parent is not working.

So yeah, very cool. Yeah that's cool. And I love names where there's reference to something a bit deeper and a play with the words and that connection. Yeah, I think that's great. Branding always has that depth to it rather than just. And even your, your Kai carrier. It's like the double meaning with well my nickname's kind of Kai. Kai is food in Mori. It's like yeah, genius, love. It also was it was this kind of YouTube kitchen table. Okay, right. What is this? Did either of you have like a design for the products or. I mean, because it's a fairly revolutionary product design, I guess so neither would this Michelle have a background in design or manufacturing. So literally it's just you two kitchen table. Okay. We know it's not going to be single use sort of tampons or stuff. Yeah. So how did it.

Yeah, we came into it. I think the beauty of the business and the partnership and how it's been able to grow is that we came into it with quite different skill sets that, you know, when combined have been able to create awa. For me with Kai Carrier, I'd already been supply chain management, that sourcing manager procurement with overseas manufacturers for five years. So we obviously knew that we were not going to be getting this product made in New Zealand in terms of. It would not be viable in terms of the technologies and the fabrics. They would not have been able to be sourced within New Zealand either.

So I guess I used the knowledge and skills that I had built from my previous business in terms of going out and trying to find potential suppliers. And because it was a new product sort of quite globally, like we not really did a lot of research, had some conversations with ones, but landed on some amazing manufacturers in Sri Lanka who completely sort of understood what we were trying to achieve and we just sort of took it from there really. We, we knew what we sort of wanted the underweight to look like and it was fun, like going and looking at other underwear and be like, is that the style that we want? You know, and, and just rolling from that really. And Michelle's incredibly good at marketing and so started to build out that brand story and yeah contacts in the media and we're able just to really launch it. And it's just sort of grown since then, adding new styles, new manufacturing, continuing to build out. You know, from the very beginning what was really important to us and we made this very clear from day one of any manufacturer that we would consider working with is about our commitment to sustainability and ifc, a B Corp business and being able to.

Have a fully transparent supply chain and needing to know that the fabrics that we were getting were meeting international standards in terms of certification, in terms of certified organic cotton yarns being dyed in ecotech certified mills so that we know that there's no harmful chemicals going in the dyes. And so yeah, we've worked really hard. That's been a process as well, being for them to identify everybody else who's in that supply chain behind them because they're really just the cut maker. So factory, they source all of that but they know what our criteria is for that.

Yeah, nice. And so a lot of the clients we work with on their B corp journey, supply chain is the weak link. It's the most. What's the word I'm looking for? I guess the area with the least amount of transparency. A lot of people we're working with in the product sector are we kind of buy some stuff. Stuff off a guy called Dave in Auckland or in London or LA or whatever. He seems like a really nice guy, but I don't really know where he gets his stuff from. It sounds like you were definitely ahead of that curve in terms of that depth of. Of yeah. Knowledge and having gone down your supply chain. But the, A lot of those companies who we talk to, oh, we don't really know how to have that conversation with a supplier or I don't think they're going to give us that information even if we ask them for, for it around, you know, do you have certifications and what have you. So what was your experience like? Was it hard to find good companies that were willing to do stuff for you or was it a lot of effort to find the companies that you've got on board?

I mean, I think there's. Yeah, building strong supplier relationships do take a lot of work. And I think we were just really honest from the beginning about what our expectations were. And off the back of that as well, we've developed a supplier code of conduct which basically outlines our minimum standards for working with a supplier. And so that sort of covers fairness, you know, that these, the workers pay the fair and living wage within the laws of the country in which they operate. Sustainability, that they're doing everything that they can around waste minimization and air pollution and minimizing their emissions.

Respect for the workers, respect for their rights, respect for that collective agreement.

And so, you know, we've shared that with our suppliers and they've, they've agreed to it. And you know, in the early days, pre Covid, we were lucky enough that we got to go up to Sri Lanka and visit the factory where our underwear are made and sort of see first and the operations and ask questions and spend time with all of the seamstresses and just really see everything good that they're doing as well. I think, you know, supply chains are a really tricky one, you know, so every time we do like a new order, we're like, hey, please update us, let us know where the cotton's being sourced from. Are we still getting the recycled nylon from this X factory over here? Hey, if you are. Well, there we need a new certification to show that that is still. They've still got the certification for producing that. It's recycled nylons. And to begin with, it was quite. It would be a bit of back and forth and we're like, no, no, no. Like, this is, this is what we need from you to work with us. And now we've like, they've now actively going out there trying to find suppliers of the raw materials and the fabrics for them that meet our criteria because they understand the importance of that and working with awa.

Nice.

Yeah, all great. Yeah, I think that's the thing. You've got to build those relationships. And yeah, you've clearly done the mahi there. So go you.

So 2018, you, you, you started a business. At what point were you kind of like, okay, we've, we've got something here. This could be a thing. Was that pretty quick or did it take a bit of time?

Yeah, it was pretty quick, actually. It grew pretty rapidly.

And why do you think that was?

I think that it was. I mean, it grew really rapidly, but at the same time, because it was such a niche new product and not a lot of people heard about period underwear. It took quite a bit in terms of educating people, being like, this is how they work. Whereas now period underwear is sort of everywhere. Which talk more about. I think there's pros and cons to that.

Not all created the same.

Yes, but. And.

So, yeah, we like, oh, this, this is taking off this. Doing some really effective marketing. We, we were doing expos, like the Go Green Expo, the Women's Lifestyles Expos. Getting really awesome feedback and from around that. And yeah, we're like, cool. Just online sales were going really well and the brand just started to grow from there.

Nice. And so at what point did you look at doing the Kickstarter so well?

The Kickstarter was how we started the whole thing.

So before. Okay, so you use that to actually launch. Right. Rather than launch. Get. Get a few and then get the. Get the Kickstarter.

The calculated risk taker didn't invest into it.

Nice. Get other people's money.

We'd obviously come up with the business and, and have been getting our prototypes and been having those tested because there's a lot of technicalities that go into the underwear. Not only do we have to ensure that they're free from all the harmful chemicals that we want them to be from, like, particularly. There's a lot of talk now around the PFAS chemicals. So we have all of our fabrics tested for fluorine, which is a precursor to any of the pfas, which is thousands. So we won't use fabric unless it comes back as none detected in the fabrics. Yeah. So we'd sort of got these prototypes. We had some of our friends, got some samples, had some of our friends to use them and test them, and so we knew they worked. And then we created our Kickstarter campaign, the video that went with it, and just. Yeah. Through launch that I think about 1st of October 2018, and. Oh, well, boom. And we're like, oh, okay. And, you know, luckily we'd already ordered the fabric because we were like, well, we're gonna. Whether we get our Kickstarter or not, like, we're gonna do.

You're gonna do it. Yeah.

And so that. And then we were like, oh, gosh, I think we need to order some more.

It's a good problem. Good problem to be having.

So from there, we've just gone on and developed some new styles as we've come along and always innovating, always looking at the new technologies around fabrics that we can use that are going to be more absorbent, that sort of thing.

Yeah. And of course, Kickstarter are themselves a B corp, so there you go. Didn't. I don't know if you knew that, but there you go. So double. Double impact from day one. Any tips or tricks, recommendations for people looking to raise funds if they've got a startup idea and are hovering over the commit now to Kickstarter? I guess it would just be. Just do it. It seems to be your general. Your general motto. Just give it a go.

Absolutely. I think, you know, what I think.

Was really good about our campaign is, you know, try and do as professional a video as you can.

Really have that story. Compelling. Yeah.

You know, we spent a lot of time and effort into the video and, you know, again, calling on your friends and family. Thank you to my cousin who's a. He's a cameraman. And so he came in.

Nice. Calling all the favors. Yeah. During that time. You stole my lollies at Christmas in 1983. Well, I got a deal for you, so.

And so he was really happy to come in and help us with that.

Nice.

Grateful for that.

Super cool. Yeah, that seems. I know. Like a teak. Did a really powerful fundraising campaign as part of their sort of early part in the story. And again, having that, like, bulletproof or bomb proof story, compelling narrative about what we're doing, why we're doing it, why you should invest. I think, yeah, that seems to be the basic keys to raising funds. Cool. And so, yeah, you talked, we briefly just mentioned the fact about, you know, not all period pants are created equal. So I guess it's like any industry, as soon as you prove, you know, that there's, there's a market here, other people want to be a part of it. And so. But I know you mentioned you were one of our amazing panelists as part of our B Corp Month celebrations. Feels like a decade ago, but it was what, March, March this year? It feels like. Yeah, I don't know you touched on it there, but yes. So what are some of the challenges with some of the sort of, I guess the knockoff versions or the, or the less considered options options that are in the market?

Yeah, I mean, I think that it's with any product that, you know, there'll always be people who come in and make a cheaper version that doesn't necessarily function as well. And period underwear is still a relatively new industry, like a new product globally. And so it's, it's, I guess it's that challenge of like not wanting people to have a bad experience so that they're then put off from thinking. They think, oh, these don't work for me or these are rubbish that I brought, but because I haven't bought ones with quality. But on the flip side, having more brands in the market has also been created greater awareness of them. And we know that people are always going to be. There is price, people are driven by price and that's just how it is. And you know, not everybody is going to be able to afford the high end. Yeah, I think it's, it's just being conscious of the quality that you're getting, especially when you're using it to manage your period. And you know where our sits. We definitely position ourselves at that higher quality brand end and we, we know that the products that we produce are really high quality. We know that the fabrics that we're using, you know, certified organic cotton yarn, we're using certified recycled nylons. So we know that there's the quality in that and that costs more.

And not only that, it's everything else that we do within the brand as well. So we donate 2% of our annual revenue by way of product donations and that's to help eradicate period poverty in New Zealand. So we need to factor in the cost of that somewhat as well. We've agreed to do that. But so we, we have that. The other thing that we do is that we are climate positive for business operations. So we're measuring and offsetting all of our emissions and then we're topping it up to 120% just to make sure that completely covered. And we're doing that through ecosystem which is a New Zealand.

So it's all of these additional things that we do that we have to sort of factor in. But that's part of our commitment.

Yeah, totally.

To being sustainable and bringing that change. And yeah, people just have to begin to realize that, you know, things do cost more when they're quality and when they're good. And actually we need to be conscious of this. We, we need to actually stop consuming so much.

Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

Because that's the only way that we're really going to save this planet.

Yeah, no, I totally agree. Yeah, that's, that makes, makes complete sense. But I guess like I say for some people, I mean you, you, you, you, you've got the product that you are, you are giving away. So if someone's really, really struggling, I guess don't, don't buy the, the poor quality option that's creating bigger possible environmental challenges and might like say might have toxic products or chemicals in it or at least not be the best quality product. Reach out to our and just say, hey, could you hook me up? Because they will do that for you.

Potentially we won't donate to individuals.

All right, so you do it through organizations?

We do. We've got lot of partners on our design program. One of our main partners is Dignity. Another B Corp. Yep.

Nice.

So getting it into the hands and then we donate to like, to Women's Refuge and other organizations like that.

Nice. Super cool. So that kind of leads nicely into the B Corp stuff. So you said pretty much from day one that you wanted the business to be a B corp. So when did you first hear about B Corp? When did that pop up on your radar?

I heard about B Corp. Gosh. I think would have been pre our and when I had Kai Carrier and was like, oh, what's this B Corp? And I sort of reading a bit about it and I was like, wow, that sounds awesome. I think back then there would have been very few in New Zealand who would be certified. And so I was like, it just, it just came onto my radar and it was one of those things that was like sitting there, I was like, I'm just going to keep following this movement, see where this goes. But it was something that yeah, really triggered something for me I was like, yes, finally, like business is actually being recognized for good. This is awesome.

What a crazy idea. It might catch on.

Seemingly it is. Yeah. Woo. At last.

So when you started our. Did you. Had you. Did you like have the impact assessment open as you were building the business type level or start the start of the business then kind of bought the Be Corp into it.

Yeah. And I knew that I had a rough idea of what was it within the assessment in terms of what we would need to be doing and we were just naturally doing it with, with the ethos and like with what our stands for, our values. Yeah. So it was quite an easy way.

Easy.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean it's, I say it's easy. It was, it was one of those things that I was like B Corp. Oh, I've got to get onto the B Corp. I've got to get that because. So it was finding the time to commit to doing the assessment and that was probably one of the biggest challenges doing it for us because especially in a startup where we're still, you know, still in startup phase. Yeah. You've got to be agile and things go really quickly and you've got to pivot and you've got suddenly got this massive growth and you've got to build out new systems and change your inventory and like everything like that. And so like oh yeah, this, this was a feel good. This was the.

So that was probably one of the biggest challenges is finding the time to do the non urgent.

Yep.

And then when I finally got into that tool like that assessment tool can be quite daunting and it's like opening a can of worms. You're like, oh, and if I hit yes on this one, suddenly I've got these new questions and I'm like, but I'm not sure if that's yes or no. What if I had, you know, it was really like. And because you're doing it and knowing that it opens other pathways, you really were like, oh, I really need to make sure that I'm opening, I'm answering this question correctly.

Yep, 100%. Yeah. The good old impact assessment.

Yeah, yeah. Started on it. It was really exciting and pleasing to see as we sort of said about how much we were already doing.

Yeah.

How many things were like, oh yes, we are doing that. Yeah. And I think what it was really beneficial for our with the assessment is it made us formalize everything that we were doing to prove that we were doing it. And now the business has got to the size it is regardless of Whether we'd done the B corp journey, like we would have needed to have formalized all of that.

Yeah. 100.

So it was quite good to sort of almost it like.

Did it. And I knew that at the time I was like, right. I was like, I'm just going to get it done. And that's when I heard there was about a seven month wait to actually go through the order process to get your certification. So I was like, all right. I think it was like July that we. I was like, I'm going to submit it. I'm going to submit it by July and I'm going to give myself to December to get all the stuff done.

Nice.

And so then once you get a rocket up here, you just really don't have a choice, do you?

No, no. This is.

Yeah, yeah. There's nothing like a time bound clock ticking to do list to make you actually get stuff done. And that's the advice we give to everyone. It's yeah, do as much as you can. Get as much of the assessment done and then all the work ons. Click submit. Clocks ticking. Got to get them done.

And like that. I would almost encourage every business who gives any sort of rats about the planet and the people in it to actually go through the assessment because it's actually a really thought provoking experience. Yep. 100% provides an overview of what you're doing well but then also really readily identifies areas that you can improve on. And some of those improvements actually will have a really profound positive impact, but actually quite easy little tweaks that as an organization you may not have thought about because you haven't been asked those questions.

Yeah, totally. Cannot agree more with you. Yeah, it's free to take the assessment. Just go and have a look. There'll be, there'll be stuff on there that you'll just go, I didn't even know that was a thing, but now I know it's a thing. I'd like to make it a thing in my business. And there you go.

Yeah.

You have some free business improvement ideas from, from the assessment tool.

Any. Yeah. Sort of big highlights or anything. Was there anything unexpected that that was in the assessment that you were kind of like, oh, okay, that doesn't really make any sense or that's really cool. I've never thought about that. Or I think you seem to be one of those classic companies that you were, you were totally aligned to. It was already say you just had to kind of document it. So I wouldn't be surprised if there was anything that you Were like, oh, wow, we did. We never thought about that. But yeah, I don't know, maybe there was.

No, I don't think there was. I think, you know, we are facing challenges with what we achieved through the Impact business model that we opened up. We opened up the design to give one, which is 2% of revenue. You can do that via product donation. And so we donate to a number of our key partners, like including Dignity, which is another equal. We donate to the New Zealand police, who. I love that one because they're working with the youth who are coming to their attention and they're supporting the families because they understand those relationships. And so we really support that because as I said, you know, if you can help alleviate some stresses of not being able to carry products, you can take away a bit where these people may have some more capacity to work on improving and changing behaviors. So. So what we have.

So we opened that up and it was during the time of COVID as well. So the New Zealand government had some tax and exemptions in place around the donation of goods. So what B Court requires is that all of the recipients of our underwear are registered charities for the sake of the donations being tax deductible.

Yep.

So now we have this massive challenge because Dignity is not a charity.

Yep.

The New Zealand police is no charity.

Yeah.

We finding is that like the underwear we're donating to Dignity and the police and some of our other community organizations and things like that who are not registered charities, we know they're having the biggest impact. They're getting into the hands of the people that we want our underwear hands off. But now as a result of that, we're no longer meeting that criteria.

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

So.

It's a catch 22 because we obviously do not want to stop donating to our biggest partners where we're having the most impact. But we also know the importance of being a B corp and maintaining but also improving your score.

Yep, totally.

So I guess that's a piece of work I'm doing at the moment as I'm exploring the B Corp assessment and looking around the civic engagement part instead as a way that our donations can be recognized in the way.

Taking away from our ethos and our values because they have to have impact. It's a. They're a cost to us and we're doing it for a purpose we're not doing. When we are really reflected on that, I say what's more important here is it getting the underwear into the hands who need it and doing our part, period. Poverty or is it like waving my piece of paper, I've got B Corp and I'm making myself. And I was like, it's the pig.

To those people. So just that's probably one of the challenges because the current assessment, and I know that we can talk maybe a little bit about what like the changes to it a bit. But the way it is at the moment, is it sort of that same assessment regardless of whether you got two employees or 500 and there's sort of, there's not, it's very black and white. There's no sort of like with a situation like this, like could we get a waiver to show that Actually, yeah, we're doing what B Corp wants us to do, which is the impactful.

So yeah, yeah, it's, it's tough. And we have this conversation with all our clients. You know, there's going to be some stuff that you're doing that won't be captured by the assessment and that doesn't mean you should stop doing that stuff. But it equally doesn't mean the assessment's completely pointless and not worthy. And it's, it's, yeah, this fine line between yeah and I mean it's an interesting one. It could well be worth you actually contacting B Lab and just saying, look, see the intent behind the question, but can we have a conversation about this? Because we are reaching beneficiaries. You know, it's not like the New Zealand police is a for profit entity. That's, you know, I don't, I don't know whether you had that conversation with them, but sometimes they can, they can loosen the rules if you can really demonstrate what you're doing. So that might be worth talking to B Lab about directly in Melbourne and just saying, hey, can I just have a chat with you and just in the spirit of the movement, show you what we're doing here and why actually this creates more impact than if we were working with just a not for profit.

There are occasions where they can potentially then set a new precedent and they might go, actually look, okay, the police, they might give you that one because they'll go, okay, well they are kind of a government organization supporting the community. So I, I, it's, you know, what's the risk?

You did do no bueno.

Maybe try again, try someone else.

Keep pushing on that one.

Yeah.

Cool. So, yeah, so I guess, yeah, leads into the update of the standards so coming through in the next few years, possibly the next two to three years. There's no, still no firm dates on it. So the the basis behind this is currently to be a B Corp, you need to score 80 out of 200 points. You can get your 80 points across any of the five areas of governance, workers, community environments and customers.

Some other organizations, some B Corps have said, well, hang on, you can. I mean, I don't think you can. Anyone can game the system, you know, to, to get to meet the minimum of 80 out of 200, you're still having to do the work. But one of the, one of the sort of, I guess complaints is probably a bit of a strong word, but one of the critiques or suggestions for improvement on B Corp would be that there needs to be minimum standards that you have to meet across all areas. And so the new assessment looks likely to be 10 sections instead of just five with minimum requirements in each one. So, yeah. Thoughts on the new concept or the new model?

I mean, I've had a bit of a read about them all and I actually think it's really a great look. Good thing that we're looking at that because what is now having to be addressed is really core global issues around like climate change and waste management and inequalities that exist. So, you know, those are addressed in the existing assessment, actually have them sort of like really laid out a lot clearer. I think that.

Looking at the new tool and framework, it gives more clarity about what you can do and what needs to be achieved. And you know, this is the step that probably needs like as B Corp almost stepping up and like, how do we make meaningful progress?

So by putting these current core issues at the forefront of the assessment, it really provides clear expectations of what is expected of B Corp to improve.

So yeah, I think, I think it's looking really, really good from what I've read of it. Nice for existing B Corps, like when they go through their reassessment, they have to go do it all over again.

So I think the, the word on the grapevine I've heard, and typically this is how B Lab have operated historically, is there will be a, a.

Fairly extended transition time where if you, if you're on your third or fourth cycle of the, of the old assessment, you might be allowed to go through on that one for your next recertification to give you that time to create the change that will need to be done. And so it might be that they say, right, all new B Corps, if you're starting from scratch, you are on the new certification. And I think it's likely that the older ones, so like you or I would be given a grace period. To go, okay, well we recognize that you've kind of maybe built your business to a degree around the framework as it was. So we will give you that time to transition. Let's say My only concern, my only fear is we might lose some of the middle ground businesses who may be like, okay, we're all, we're all keen on the environmental stuff but actually we're just not that interested in our community impact or not. Not as you know, it's not, not a focus for us or it's harder for us to connect to community impact. And yeah, whereas at the minute, you know, you can have a company who's all in on their environment and all in on their workers, but we're not doing so much in community. They can still be a B corp and they can still be part of the movement but then they could be influenced over time to then think about doing more in their community. Whereas I think that's my only fear is that we might lose some of those middle ground businesses who aren't committed across the whole all five or ten areas. But we will see. Willing to be proven wrong. But yeah, that's, that's my only reticence around it because I think at the minute we, we can, most people can be cap can see something in the current assessment that they really buy into and commit to and it's like great, let's focus on there for now and then let's work on you being better next time around in other areas. So but yeah, we will just have to wait and see.

So what, what does being a B corp mean to you?

I think for me personally like I feel incredibly proud of having achieved that. To be part of a movement that really prioritizes people and planet. It really resonates with like my core personal values of wanting to give back, wanting to look after Papatuanuku. And I certainly don't take the position of being a B corp for granted as we've sort of had conversations on the side of this like this is a space. I'm incredibly passionate about space. I really want to work in and support and encourage other businesses to even just as we're talking about like take the assessment, start on the journey and challenge their way of thinking and their way of doing business because we really do need to make some fundamental changes to the the way businesses are done and you know, our is proof that you can prioritize people and planet and still profitable.

Yep.

We just need to encourage more businesses to really start looking at how they can do it differently and it Starts at governance up at the board level and being able to have conversations in the boardroom and, and, you know, board boards should be directors at these board meetings quarterly. Should be even more frequently talking about, like, the impact of climate change on their business, doing their risk assessment on this, because, you know, whether it's your supply chain that could get up the doozy if your infrastructure, if your buildings are at risk from flooding or severe weather events, like, it's something that every company needs to be thinking about.

Yeah, it needs to be on the risk register for sure. And I think. I can't remember if it's been published yet, but we had a great conversation with a good mate of mine, Tim o'. Brien. He's a B Corp guy based in Brisbane. And his. His whole ethos, he sort of. He wrote a LinkedIn post a wee while ago saying purpose statements are dead. We need to get rid of the idea of corporate purpose. It needs to be about impact, focus. And when I first read his statement or his post, I was like, I'm not sure. I kind of totally agree. But having. We did a podcast episode on it and having really been thinking about it, I. I now like, totally get what he was saying. And I agree, it's, you know, if the focus of your business is not creating a core positive social or environmental impact, then kind of, what are you doing? And I think that's going to be the lens that business is being put through increasingly. My favorite contra example, I talk about it all the time, is the pooch selfie. It's a plastic attachment that you attach to the top of your phone. It holds a tennis ball so that you can take a better selfie with your pet. And you just got to go, could you not just hold a ball with your hand or, I don't know, hold a dog treat? Like the fact that you've made this thing out of plastic that has really no purpose and is probably one of those crappy stocking fillers that gets used once on Christmas Day and then breaks. Do we really. Does the world really, really need that?

People actually want to buy those? Apparently they were on marketing behind you. People will buy you.

This is the thing. It was on Shark Tank. I think it got funding. So, you know, I just, I just look at that and go, well, really? Whereas, you know, then you. Then you compare it to what you're doing and you go, well, okay. It's kind of essential because women need it and you're doing it in a really positively impactful way. So it's like, sure, like you, you get to come play. But yeah, it's I think business and I think this is why we're seeing the rise of interest in B Corp, because increasingly businesses are realizing they're being pressured by customers, employees, supply chain or investors to go, hey, actually I was talking to a guy from one of the banks the other day and he was saying, you know, he's leading their internal sustainability charge but, but more around where they're lending and you know, the banks are looking at the companies on their books and, and the risk that they hold for the reputation of the bank as well as the impact that that funding's having. And you go, well, okay, that would, if, if the banks are kind of like not just we'll give money to anyone anymore, that kind of tells you, you know, that something's changing.

So I think as well with the banks, they've got to be a lot more conscious of who they're lending to because of the new legislation about having Scope three emissions.

And that's exactly what's driving it. They're going through their, their little books of money and going, oh, hang on a minute. Oh, oh, okay, that one's all right. So you'll be fine. But yeah, some of the other people, they're like, okay, we, we. And so they're now trying to have conversations with their customers about, hey, look, you need, if you want to keep getting money from, from us, we need to have a conversation. And so, yes, there's a whole lot of stuff that's driving and I think, you know, in 20 years or 30 years time when we're, we're all living on Mars in our space, old people's homes, whatever we're doing with Elon Musk, we'll look back at this period of time. I think we can't see how quickly things are changing right now because we're right in the middle of it. And I guess we're in a bit of a bubble of the B Corp world and do good world. But, you know, we're getting calls and inquiries from all sorts of random companies and random industries that you would just go, I would not have had you on my top 10,000 list of companies that would be ringing me about B Corp. But they are because someone's gone. I need to see what you're doing socially and environmentally now. So, yeah, I think we're, It's a really exciting time to be, to be in business, I think. Yeah, yeah.

So where do you see 10 years time? Where do you see sort of the B corp movement what's the future look like for B Corp?

I really hope that it's the norm and not the exception that you know, that there's businesses that are small, big, medium sized that are all B Corp certified and that are, you know, really committed to making some changes to this planet. Put it prioritizing people, prioritizing the planet before profit. Because as I mentioned before, like we actually all just need to convert, consume less.

Yeah.

And you know I was watching on the news last night and they were talking about oh, and you know that exports coming out of China have reduced and they're buying less. And I'm like, this is not a bad thing people. This is not a bad thing. This just means that we now have to figure out how to adapt to live with less. You know, it's very simple. Don't go, oh my gosh, this is such a crisis because we're not getting as many goods out of there and they're not buying much things like actually okay, well we're not. So how do we figure out how we live with this? And then we actually just stop producing less and if we're producing less than it's costing us less and then we can actually regenerate our planet. So it's just, yeah, it's just a mindset really, isn't it? How do we do that? And you know we really need to, everybody needs to be part of this movement like the B Corp, but actually making those real big changes and particularly around our greenhouse gas emissions because you know, we have to be on target to meet these science based targets to keep global warming below that 1.5 degrees Celsius because we've seen it over the last couple of years the catastrophic weather events like within New Zealand that have happened and now I saw last night on the news the wildfires in Hawaii that have killed over 30 people because they're off the back high winds from you know, a hurricane that's going past. It's. Yeah, it's, it's catastrophic really. And it's actually going to cost, end up costing businesses more money if they don't do something.

Yep.

Think that it's going to cost them to make all of these changes but.

Actually what's the cost of not.

Yeah, you wait till you can't operate, you don't have any customers because everybody's actually just living in crisis trying to survive weather events and. Yeah, yeah, I mean on top of that as well. I guess it's about letting everybody know about the B Corp movement and really. Yeah. As I Sort of said shifting that mindset away from profit at the expense of others. And really it's just the benefit of a few. And it's about looking forward to like lifting everybody up and giving everybody opportunities to thrive and prosper because that's actually what's going to create a successful, happy world.

Yeah, what a crazy idea. It might catch on.

But I think we're both doing our best to make that become a reality, that's for sure. And so what's. What's sort of new and exciting on the, on the horizon for our. Any exciting new products that you can give us a sneak preview on? Or is that all commercially confidence that we're not allowed to say?

We launched a new product last week, so our box A Brief has proved to be incredibly popular. Started just in the black and now we've got that. We've released three new colors in the last few months. We've got it in a gray marl, a rust and denim blue. So, yeah, I think one of our points of differences that we've worked on over the last couple of years is releasing matching bras and nice. Because, you know, women do like to wear matching sets. Good. And we're like, well, why shouldn't you be able to wear matching sets when you've got your period too? So, you know, that's what we've been doing about looking after ourselves. So you can feel nice in our underwear or every part of the month, then why not?

Yeah, go you. Well, super cool. Well, we're pretty much at time. I think that's been a fantastic chat. Don't tell the others, but that's been one of my favorite podcast that I've done. So go you.

We talked about before you're gonna go skiing on the weekend now because you're getting. Trying to get back on the ski bug. So hopefully you get back into some skiing. More than happy to take you up to Mount Hut at some point. And you've got. We've got a mutual friend in Catherine Van der Melen. She's. She's a bit of a ski bunny the last couple of seasons. So maybe we should do a triple impact day of skiing and. And we can justify a day off by just talking about B Corps and impact and stuff.

Call it a work day.

Yeah, we'll expense it as a workday. Yeah. Corporate ski day. Unless there's anything else you want, you want people to know or mention. I feel like we've covered some good ground. Yeah. Overview. Anything else?

Some pretty good ground today.

Yeah. Super cool. Well, thank you so much. Hopefully there's no more wobbles for you from the earthquake machine. Papatuanuku hopefully is happy with our conversation. We're on your side, Papatuki. Treat us kindly, please. We'll treat you kindly, with respect and we'll all be all right. But, yeah, again, just. I love, you know, I just love interviewing people like yourself who genuinely doing the work. You. You can just see that the commitment is so deep. You're doing really good stuff. Excited to see what your next five businesses look like over the next. Over the next 10 years. Watch this space.

Cool. Awesome. Thank you, Carly. And we will catch you soon.

Thank you, Tim.

Hey, it's Tim here, that B Corp bloke from Grow Good. If you want more content on purpose, B Corp. How to do more good in the world as an individual or a business, then you know the drill. Hit the like and subscribe. Check out some of our other videos. They're probably floating around around here somewhere. You know how it works. Thank you so much. See you next time.