#70 Raglan Food cofounder Latesha Randall is changing the world with coconut yogurt

Hey, Kia ora, Shamay. Welcome back to the latest episode of the Be Better podcast. Thank you to all of those tuning in and our regular listeners, both of you. I don't know, is there more than two, hopefully.

With me today for this latest episode, I have the amazing and awesome Tesh Randall from the Raglan Food Co. How's it going, Tash? Kia ora.

Kia ora, Tim. That's going very well. I'm really good, thanks. How are you going?

I'm doing very always well. At Kroger Towers, we are just a force for positivity and energy and generally doing good in the world. So we never have a bad day. Never have a bad day here. Well, maybe, maybe occasionally, but we just don't talk about it.

Yeah.

Now, before we start, we have to say also hello to your, your buddy on your forehead, which is Yogi.

Yogi. He's been following me around for nearly nine years now.

So g' day Yogi too. So for people who don't know who, who Tesh Randall is or what the Raglan Coca. Sorry, Raglan food companies. Yeah, tell us who you are.

Well, I am a happy Whangadowa Raglan resident and have been for nearly 12 years. So living in a really lovely little surf town for people who haven't been here before. We're like 35 minutes from Hamilton on the West Coast. Lots of lovely surf breaks and cool, funky community with lots of artists and hippies and gardeners and dog walkers and all that sort of thing. Yoga instructors practice kind of like a mini Byron Bay. I often described our little Santa Cruz and yeah, so really enjoying being here. Raglan Food Co started very organically out of the community nine years ago. Total fluke business just making coconut yogurt at home, like to eat for breakfast and offered it for sale to the locals on the local Facebook group. And it kind of took off and everyone wanted it. And next thing, everyone's showing up at the garage door kind of wanting to pick up their jar of yogurt. And I was trying to scrummage all the glass jars I could from the recycling center and from friends and scrubbing off the labels, filling them with yogurt. And so it was all, you know, very, very small scale, grassroots, doing it at home kind of kind of business. And yeah, it's growing a lot from those days of making it in a saucepan. Now we're making it in sort of 6,000 liter tanks, you know, so in lots of. Yeah, yeah. Very large ones. Yeah. Built a factory. We've got A little factory as you do, one and a half thousand square meters just on the outskirts of town. So sort of three minutes from the town center. Yeah. Got a whole crew of yoga tears. We've got sort of 28. Yeah, that's what we call them. Not musketeers. Yoga tears.

I always feel that every company should have some kind of collective noun to describe the people that work there. I think yours is definitely up there. The other really good one is Genora. They call themselves the Genora Balls.

The generables.

I thought that's quite cool. We're so generable. I thought that's. That's a really good.

Pretty cute.

That is pretty cute. But I do like the. Yeah, the yogurt is. That's up there.

Yeah.

And so. But I seem to recall we. We have done a couple of events before. There's quite a cool backstory though, as to how you first even started making coconut yogurt. So tell us about that.

Oh, yeah, well, there's just nothing around that you can buy at this time. So this is sort of 10 years ago now and I've been vegetarian since I was 18 and then kind of on that journey to plant based. So wanting to cut out dairy being the main one, because dairy is in everything and it's also very delicious. So it's. It's quite hard to find alternatives that taste as good. And, yeah, I was kind of keen to get something that was dairy free, didn't trigger allergies, but there just wasn't anything. There was soy yogurt at the time.

Kingland soy yogurt. And it was just sort of like a glibbery, quite a livery texture and it was like, well, if you can't buy it, maybe we can make it. And I was making kombucha at home, kefir, you know, baking bread and so, doing the kind of hippie DIY thing anyway, and thought, well, I'll just make my own yogurt. Yeah. Played around with lots of different recipes and tried to find something that was good. Tested it on partner, family, friends, everyone, until we had something that was really nice. And then. Yeah, it didn't feel like a sacrifice then because giving up yogurt is a bit of a sacrifice because it is delicious and. Yeah. And it was like equally good or better. So, yeah, that was it.

I'll just say before we. We went sort of live with the recording, I've just had my afternoon tea of some raglan coconut vanilla yogurt with a bit of protein powder in it and it's It's. I genuinely think it's tastier than normal yogurt.

Yeah. So I think so too.

Yeah, so go you. So none of the friends or family died in the, in the testing process.

Report?

Yeah. No humans harmed in the making of regular.

And people, the family were pretty responsive. They were happy. They were like, tesh, look, I can't, I can't eat another pot of yogurt. I'm just. Can you just. Obviously they were, they were all on board with it.

They loved it. It was just an instant. Like people would have a spoon of it and be like, man, this is good. And then they'd have another spoon and it just sort of sold itself. And it's that way ever since, you know, like from that first group of people, there were 60 people who wanted to buy it when I first offered a couple of jars for sale. And then that first group of 60 all told their friends and then, you know, it's just been a really organic word of mouth sort of growth.

Nice. Super cool.

Yeah.

Yeah, I guess it's, it's quite refreshing and I think it's just cool for, and inspiring for people to know that that sort of. I started it in my garage or in my kitchen. I suppose you're, you're quite similar to Brianne from a Teague in that model of just, you know, just started making a product at home in the kitchen and. Yeah, let's just, let's just try it. And I think there's a lot to be said for that. Yeah. Just from like a sales and marketing perspective, you sort of identified a challenge or somewhere where there could be room for improvement, but you actually gave it a go instead of sort of just complaining about it and buying, still buying the crap that you didn't, you didn't like or not having it.

It's very much the Kiwi way.

It is. Yeah. And I think it just, it just proves like, if you've got an idea, just give it a go. What's the worst that can happen? You end up creating a really cool business that's doing great things.

Yeah. I mean, the worst thing that could have happened would have been food poisoning.

That's good.

So what's your role now within the company?

So now I'm the head of Impact. That's my main role. So I take care of all the certification side of things. So we're toy to Climate Positive. We had been carbon zero for the last four years and just this year we leveled up to Climate Positive B Corp, obviously, which we're going to talk about today? I've done that, you know, from the first audit. We have a community fund that I run, so we give out grants to people locally doing good things for social or environmental causes. People apply, we fund every quarter and sort of support them and get the word out there as well. We just started a Vibe Lifter podcast because we also run a Vibe Lifter award program and people can apply for a two and a half thousand dollars grant for that. So anywhere in the country, if you're doing something really good for people or the planet, you can apply. And then we sort of share those stories and help them with what they're doing. We do a lot of different programs. We're cleaning up plastic from beaches all around the country. We're trying to get to a million pieces, still 60,000 pieces away. So I'm hoping we're going to get there over summer.

Yeah.

And so I get to take care of that side of things. And then I'm on the board, I'm a director, so we have monthly board meetings and all that kind of governance side of things. And I also do a bit with culture, so team events and helping out with team stuff as well. So. Yeah, so I basically am doing the fun stuff now that I really enjoy, whereas I used to do everything. So, you know, I've worked in production, I've worked and dispatch, I've done admin, I've done the accounts, I've done customer service, sales, like every. Everything. I've done it all. Yeah.

But I think that's good. And I think as a, you know, because. Did you found the business by yourself or were you.

So. Me and my co founder. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Did it together.

Yeah. So I think it's good for co founders to, you know, you need to know what? Well, how do we. How do we ship stuff? You know, is that a good way to do it? Is it the most impactful way to do it otherwise? Yeah, I always love watching those. Well, I don't watch them all the time, but, you know, there's those programs where the CEO goes back to the. They go undercover.

Yes.

And they are so shocked at the poor conditions that their staff have and, you know, how none of the systems work that they've all. They've all approved and agreed upon at a board level or at a senior leadership level. And until then.

Yeah.

And I just go, how can you become so disconnected from. From your, I guess, you know, companies with thousands of employees.

Yeah.

But, yeah, it just shows the real lack of just that personal, just an Interesting connection in actually, you know, this is our sort of team. So yeah, I think it's always good when, when the boss has been through the ranks, as it were. So that. Yeah, turn around and go. Yeah, look, I know that job sucks, but I did do it for six months, so I feel you paid. We're working on doing the best that we can relate. Yeah. So what was your background and did you have any background in sort of food technology or any interest in food? Like when Tash was growing up, was, was Young Tesh kind of going, when I'm older, I'm going to run a really full successful yogurt based company?

No. Young Tish was not thinking about that at all. And I've always loved food and I used to do bake sales like as a kid to make money. I'd do baking and sell it on the side of the road with my sister. I've worked in cafes and restaurants and I tried to be, I tried to be the marketing person for multiple yogurt companies because I really love yogurt. So I actually tried to hit up a bunch of. When I had my own agency and I've also had a copywriting agency. So I went kind of more into the brand marketing side of things and I thought, oh, how cool would it be to just get free yogurt all the time? I should do marketing for yogurt companies. So I reached out to, I don't know, five different yogurt companies at the time and tried to pitch the them to be their marketing person. A couple of them got back to me, but they weren't hiring or whatever and I was like, never mind. But now I have plenty of free yogurt, so it's all worked out just fine.

Literally all the yogurt you can eat. Yeah.

Yeah.

In fact, I'm surprised you're not sick of yogurt by now.

I'm not. I still love it. Like, it's still really good and there's so many flavors that you know you can rotate through them. So it's not like you're just eating the plain one all the time.

Pretty stuck on the vanilla one.

Yeah. It's the best seller now.

Right.

People love the vanilla.

I'm doing my best.

It's good. Yeah, keep it up. Keep buying those jars. But I love going through. One of my favorite things to do is to go to premium food shops. Like, I've always loved that. So I used to walk around nosh when we had nosh in Auckland. That was a while ago and farrow and, you know, I can spend hours in a. In a shop like that just looking at all the products, looking at all the packaging. So I've always been into that. And I used to be the marketing person for Giapo Ice Cream in Auckland. I don't know if you know them, but really, really delicious ice cream. So I did quite a bit for them as well and ate lots of ice cream in the process. So, yeah, an interest in food, but never thought about starting a yogurt company. That was extremely, extremely random that this has ended up happening.

Yeah, I bet there's a few people in the marketing departments in those companies that you reached out to go, we really should have given that. That lady a job. Yeah.

Especially some competitors. The Collective was one of them. I've told the founder, Angus about it and said, you should have hired me.

Yeah, sorry. Not sorry.

Yeah.

I mean, I did give you fair warning. I did tell you I really like yogurt and I could really do some cool stuff for you. But hey, you. You do best. Yeah.

That'S. That's funny. So, so, so any. Any food connections in your broader family? Like any like mum, dad, aunties, uncles in food world? So you're. You're literally.

People working in restaurants or managing restaurants. But no, no. And no one was doing food products. Yeah. So that's not the background. But I had a really unusual background career anyway. Like, I didn't go to school, I didn't go to university, I was homeschooled, I didn't do an OE, so I've been working full time since I was 15 and I've done heaps of different jobs, lots of different industries and various startup projects along the way. So I've always been into business. That's been my thing.

Yeah. Nice. And so. And that. That wasn't a barrier in any way to sort of getting marketing roles or. Do you like you. Did you. Like you said, you started your own kind of gigs fairly young, so you. So you had a portfolio of work or experience to sort of say, look, I've been doing this.

I've done so many things. Yeah. I've been the editor of a travel magazine for eight years. I've published children's books and sold them into stores. I was buying and selling cell phones on Tradebear when I was 12. Like I've. I've hustled all kinds of things.

Nice.

Yeah.

Proper startup sort of CEO mentality. So. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I. Not as prolific as yourself, but I remember me and a mate when we were at school we started a car washing business. Maybe sort of 15, you know, and it was sort of five. This is in the UK, so it was, you know, five quid for the outside and then we were doing the outside and then we were like, we're missing the trick here. We could be cleaning the insides as well. And so, you know, we took some of our profits and we reinvested in a little dust devil, Dirt devil, whatever called Little Little Hoover. Had that in our backpack as we were biking around. And so, hey, do you want to do the inside handout for 10 quid? Yeah, yeah, it was great. Just, you know. Yeah. And you know, just door knocking. Hey, shortly, car cleaned. We can come around once a week or once a month, whatever. Yeah, I think it's. I think it's good for people to. To give that a go.

Agreed.

You know, what's the worst that can happen? They say, no, don't.

Yeah. Again, move on to the next one.

Next one, yeah. So. So when did you start the company again? It was about.

It was 2014.

2014?

Yeah. Nine years this year.

Nice. And so what was the first step then? Obviously you kind of realized you had a bit of a tiger by the tail. Okay. This is quite popular. We've literally flooded Raglan with coconut yogurt. What did the journey look like from there?

Well, everyone was calling me the yogurt lady. So I'd go into town, people would be like, oh, are you the yogurt lady? Oh, hi. And that's still. People still ask me that all the time. Are you the yogurt lady? Which is cool. But yeah. So I went from that to hiring the local community kitchen. That was sort of the first step, like getting out of home, which is great because it's all food certified and so on. And a bunch of other local producers use that. People who have done baking and ice blocks and pies and all sorts of things.

Yeah.

So using that. And then very quickly we were outgrowing that. Like we were there till midnight making batches of yogurt, like hand stirring these big pots. We got sort of hundred liter pots, custom fitted them with an urn tap on the bottom so we could hand fill the jars and hand screw on the lids and so on. And then started thinking about making our own mini factory. So we ended up building a sort of a mini plant and a shipping container. That was the next step. And then we had to find somewhere to put the shipping container. So we leased a building in town. It used to be a motor workshop. Put the container in there. So we just laced a third of the building and then we kept growing. So then we leased half the building and knocked the wall out of the container, built a production room, got more tanks, built a little office space. Then we need more space again. So we built a chiller out the front and storage out the back and leased the whole building. So we kind of gradually extended over this building and then that was also getting too small. So then it was okay, we need our own space. So bought land outside of town in the know my business park, which is just starting up, and built the whole factory like from a green field from scratch. So that was the kind of big jump. And yeah. Remortgaged the house to do it and yeah. Then just went all in on the yogurt, so. And we've been here for a few years now and it's awesome, like having our own space and being the landlords and. Yeah, yep, it's really made a difference. So we could. Could level up quite a lot after getting in here.

Sort of masters of your own destiny without having to worry about. Yeah, yeah.

There was always some problem. And I mean it was great being right in the center of town, but it also came with its downsides. Like people would just wander into the factory all the time, like, hi, oh, we'd love to see what you guys are doing and say bye to yogurt. And like, because we're just right there and people knew we were there. And then the truck's trying to come in and pick up yogurt and there's all these pedestrians like crossing the road and so it's actually quite nice being in a more commercial area.

Yeah, yeah. Hashtag health and safety. Yeah, pretty much, yeah. Haven't lost anyone in a vat yet though.

No, thank God. Gosh, that would be awful.

What a way to go.

So, I mean it's. It's quite cool. Yeah. I mean, literally, you know, organic. Organic growth. Because I think having, I mean, I guess loosely connected to the. To that FMCG world through various. Well, you know, through helping companies with B Corp or in a former life when I some work with conscious consumers, we're talking to brands and quite often it feels in the food beverage sector, it's quite often that the brand that you see on the shelf is more than likely actually owned by some big conglomerate and the. The sub brand that you think you're buying, that you imagine is Tesh and her partner and her mates making it is actually quite a large commercial outfit. And it's more about we see a, what's the word? Like an opportunity in the market to launch a product to sell to people. And it's kind of like they just try and flood the market to capture it. Whereas yours has literally been from the ground up and it feels a bit more authentic and a bit more. And I think that, you know, if you say that the story that you got behind it, it's not like we, we wanted to sell coconut yogurt to try and take down dairy yogurt because we could see there's a market opportunity. It's like actually there's generally people who either can't eat that yogurt or want a, a dairy, you know, dairy free alternative. And yeah, you built it from the ground up. And I think that's just. Yeah, there's a depth to that.

Yeah. Which, yeah, that's the real deal.

Resonates with people.

Yeah. And then it's also cool that we've been able to keep it in Raglan because that's been a big thing for us, like wanting to keep the business here, keep the jobs here. Because it's a small community, it's quite rural. There's only sort of 4,000 people that live here permanently. No more of a summer when all the holiday houses are full. But there's not that much year round employment. Quite hard for people to have a year round job. It's very seasonal. So yeah, because we were looking at, oh, do we have to take it to Hamilton? Are we going to have to move it to Auckland? When it didn't look like we could get our own site, there wasn't any land available, there wasn't any big buildings to lease. You know, it's a tiny community. So yeah, so when this place came up, it was like, okay, we have to do this. Like this is, this is our opportunity, otherwise we have to move it. And like no one wanted to move. Everyone wants to live in Raglan. So yeah, that's sort of. Yeah. So it is actually Raglan food go.

It is, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so was it like a farmer just was like, hey, I can sell you some land. Or how did, how did the land suddenly become available?

We were talking to a farmer at one point. We had a farmer. We're talking to a trust, we're talking to anyone. But this is actually in a new development. So it's called the know my business park. So there's a bunch of other. There's. There's storage sheds and there's a mechanic and so on. So it's. Yeah, a Bunch of companies. And this one site that was being developed, it was a really long project. I think the guy spent maybe 10 years on the. On the project. Yeah. So, yeah, so it was really lucky. So we got some of the last available sites because I guess again, we'll.

Sort of get a bit more into the impact kind of stuff. But presumably was there any trade off in your mind between, you know, this is a small rural community and if suddenly it's full of industry and you're building a massive factory that's got a, you know, possibly detrimental environmental impact, but on the other side of the scales you're creating employment in a community that can be potentially quite transient and there's not many, you know, good jobs in good companies. So. Yeah. Did you, did you have to sort of ponder any of that whilst you were thinking about. But obviously you wanted to keep it. It's the Magnum Fruit Code. So. Yeah, we don't actually want to change it to the Hamilton Food Code or the.

No, it doesn't have to say ring to it, does it?

Quite as cool. Yeah. So was there any tension in your, in your minds as you would sort of navigating that part of it?

No, I mean, like, it all just seemed positive. I don't really think of any negative impact.

I think, yeah, there's so much that we've given back to the community and so many people that have come through here and gotten really good experience and then gone on to do other things. It's been like a. It's been a really nice stepping stone for a lot of people. We've had a lot of team members who have gone on to start their own businesses. You know, they've been kind of like inspired and they've been entrepreneurial bent as well. And we've almost mentored them a little bit and then kind of sent them off to do something else. And.

Yeah, I didn't really see any downsides. I saw a lot of downsides if we moved the whole thing somewhere else, but not many with keeping it here. The only things that are a challenge are things like attracting kind of higher level talent. You know, like if you need someone with a really specific background, like a food technologist, for example, there aren't just heaps of food technologists sort of floating around Raglan looking for jobs. So you end up sort of trying to get people to move from Auckland or from Hamilton here. So we have had a few people that have done that. Our new operations manager moved down from Auckland and. Yeah, so. And our supply chain managers also Just moved over recently from Hamilton, so we've had to do that. But it's an appealing proposition because, you know, live in Raglan.

So I was gonna say, yeah, it's like, so, oh, I have to live in Raglan. Oh, okay. Yeah.

Some people are city people. You know, it always surprises me, but there are people who are like, oh no, I'd prefer to commute. And I'm like, why would you prefer to commute? Live in Auckland? Like it doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, I work from home, but occasionally people will request a meeting at 8:30 or 4:30 in town and it just one day every three months of sitting in rush hour traffic. I just kind of, I don't understand how people do it generally.

It's horrible.

It's just, it's horrible and it's just the most pointless. I mean, sure, you get through a couple of podcasts, but I'd rather be doing that, taking the dog for a walk rather than sat in a car sucking on the fumes of the car in front of me.

Same.

Yeah, I think maybe it's become so normalized for some people that.

Yeah, just used to it.

Just like I'm so used to it. I can't actually imagine. It's always Stockholm syndrome with the commute. Yeah, I, I love, I love my captor so much. I can't see my life without it. Yeah, no, not for me. Not for me.

Nope.

So the, the, the idea of the coconut company or the food company was there built mainly on, on the product side of things. So where did the idea of sort of purpose business for good? And you know, we'll talk a bit more about the. You've already mentioned some of the impact that you're doing, but was that. Yeah. Was that something from day one that you wanted to build in or was it something that kind of crept in as you were going along the journey of creating the business?

It's just naturally there from the beginning. I think a lot of it just comes down to the type of person that you are. And you know, like, why, why I wanted to live in Raglan is because I really resonated with the values here in the community. And like people here care about waste, they care about trees, they care about animals, they care about the water. That's just sort of the type of person that wants to live in a place like Ragland. So I guess because we started here and then all our first hires were family members or hippie friends, that was really who we started with. Then that was just in the company from the beginning and it was intrinsic to who we were. Yeah. So the sort of things we thought of doing were those sorts of things. So just naturally evolved and then we were able to do more and more as we got bigger because we got more resources and so on, so we could put more into giving back, you know, to the point now where I can have a dedicated role as being head of Impact. Um. So, yeah, I think it's just baked in.

Yeah. And so as part of your upbringing, was that. Was that sort of a consideration of the. Obviously being homeschooled? I'm guessing a lot of the values that you have come from Mum and Dad, from the homeschooling and experiences that you had.

Yeah, so, yeah, definitely.

What was sort of Mum and Dad up to as careers or professions when. When they were raising you or. Yeah. How did the upbringing. As I said before we started, it seems to me there's two types of people that we tend to speak to. One is more similar, like yourself. Like, just from day one, I've just been brought up to do good and think about other, you know, environment and people. And then there's others who, more like myself, who had some kind of moment of an epiphany going. Actually, the path I've been sent on and the story I've been fed about what does, you know, work for you or should be.

Actually isn't the right one. And it's typically quite a hard stop moment where you go, whoa, hang on a minute. So, yeah, just maybe just unpack a little bit more about. Yeah. What. What was it that led you to be. Because not everyone, not everyone thinks like we do.

Yeah, it's true. You're right. Yeah. So I'm definitely the first type of person. My family is very values oriented and I suppose that was a big part of the reason of wanting to homeschool us. My parents are just good, hardworking Kiwis, really. Like, they're not big career people at all. My mom was full time homeschooling us, so there's four. Four kids and my dad was working from home as an architect and he's also a builder. So he kind of entrepreneurially decided that he wanted to be a builder after he had only been an architect. So he wanted to actually design and build.

Right.

So he. So he sort of did that and moved us all up to Dagobah. We were in Auckland at the time and went. Bought some sites of land up there and started designing and building and he hadn't ever built a whole house before. You know, so it did seem quite radical at the time for my mom and so on. So he got into that. So he was, he was at home as well most of the time. And yeah, mom is just a really kind and generous person. So she's modeled that for us from the beginning. Like just yesterday I popped in to see her because she lives next door now in Rachel, and she was baking a cake for a friend whose husband had just passed away from cancer. And you know, she was taking around dinner for the whole whnau and feeding them. And that's just sort of classic mom, you know, she's always doing something like that for someone else. And if we got birthday presents, you know, we had to handwrite thank you notes to everyone who gave us a birthday present. And we had our little jars, we had our savings spending and giving jars for our pocket money. So we'd always put money in the giving jar and pick things to give to. And so that was. Yeah, that's just, that's. And we're all like that. So that the four kids, I'm the oldest. My brother works with people who have disabilities, so he coordinates activities for them at this lovely organization called Hohipa down there. Yeah. Oh, you know them? Yeah. So he, he takes them all on fun outings and teaches the music and does all these other things with them. And then my younger sister's working with elderly people in a retirement home in Hamilton and my other sister teaches kids singing lessons and like they're all very, all very caring.

Yeah. Sort of giving people.

Yeah, definitely. That's a big part of our family. Nice.

And clearly.

I suppose a bit of the entrepreneurial spirit maybe from your dad that kind of. Hey, never built a house before, but how hard can it be? It's just some sticks and some fluff and I've drawn it. So I can only blame myself if I put the stick in the wrong place.

And he did it, you know, he built multiple houses in the end and sold them all. And yeah, so that was, that was there. But we had a bit of a conflict of interest though, because he was working from home as an architect. And then I was wanting to run my cell phone business on trade me and we had dial up Internet. And so only one of us, if I was on the Internet checking my auctions, he couldn't take phone calls from clients. I remember him yelling at me a few times, like calling out like, get off the Internet, Tish, I need to take a phone call. And I'll be like, oh, damn it.

It'S like yeah, you are your own business, get your own phone line.

I wasn't big enough for that. I was only making good pocket money. Really.

Oh that's classic.

That's such a cool story. Good old dial up Internet. Yeah.

Yeah. I do not miss that.

Before. You can do anything.

Yeah. And faxes as well. I remember because my dad used to work from home and yeah, you pick up the phone and there'd be a fax.

There's probably a whole bunch of people who might listen to this, go what are they faxes and dial up into it. What are they talking about? There's also cassettes and VHS's. Go and Google it. Youth people, young people of today. It'll be a whole world that you. Yeah, I remember with our daughter, she was probably, I don't know, two or something and she, she was walking up to the TV screen trying to swipe the TV screen, you know, because used to.

Right. Stop moving.

It's like all screens move. Clearly because that's the one that I've been introduced to.

Makes sense.

Super cool. So. So yeah, sort of the purpose and doing good. Yeah, I think it's, it's. Yeah. There's a real mix I guess of what we see of people doing B Corp. Some are clearly like values driven humans who built the business on values. There's. I'll give a shout out to Nicola from zabags. Yeah, similar, similar kind of vibe. Just generally this business has been built around solving a suit. So check out zbags. So they. Nicola works with weavers in Myanmar. So typically disadvantaged females in rural communities, they weave the bags for her with these beautiful patterns and she then imports and sells them in Australia, New Zealand and then pays, you know, a really good wage back to those people so that they can get a better, a better go at life. And so yeah, just like some businesses are really just you can see like just you know, cut them in half, you can see the values written in the middle. Whereas I guess there are more coming into the B Corp community where maybe less values driven. This is, you know, we're seeing that this is a. There's, you know, there's more of a marketing or operational thing here and it is interesting when you sort of see the two and when, when we're working with them. Yeah. How some. It's kind of like yeah, we could do that but that sounds a bit hard to do versus oh wow. Yeah, like we haven't thought about that. We're going to add that to our list of doing more good because yeah, we do that from day one. So, yeah, in terms of B Corp, when did, when did B Corp pop up on. On your radar as part of the sort of purpose doing good journey?

I'd heard of it, you know, I'd seen it on products and heard people kind of talk about it in a general way for a few years. And then I think it was around 2019 that I was like, oh, we should seriously look into this. Like, what, what. What's involved? What is it about? Yeah, so I started getting quite interested in it. I think it was actually after reading. Yeah, it was after reading that book from the Patagonia founder, Let My People Go Surfing. Yep, a really great book. I really enjoyed it and yeah, and I had a look into it and I was like, oh, this does look really good. And then I sort of studied the framework a bit and thought, wow, this is quite comprehensive. Like it just seemed more comprehensive than anything I'd looked at before because we had, we'd already done the carbon zero certification at that point, so that was very focused on, you know, emissions, but not so much the rest of the operations. And yes, I started working towards it then sort of 2019ish. And then we certified in 2021, start of 2021. So it was, it was probably like a year and a half of prep before the audit and then there were also some delays over Christmas and so on. So, yeah, a bit of a long process of getting there and then we've just recertified a couple of months ago this year. So, yeah, yeah, congratulations. Two. Two rounds now and then already starting to prep for the next one because, yeah, it's kind of fun. Like once you get into it, you're like, oh, I want to increase our point score. You know, what other things can we improve and do to increase our points? So it is, it is motivating. Although I know the standards are evolving to change anyway, so, you know, the point system as it is is going to change.

But yeah, which is interesting because, yeah, B Lab are interesting because, you know, they're obviously, you know, you're not supposed to mention if you're the highest scoring or the first in a. In a sector and they sometimes get a little bit anti the points thing themselves. But, but I, I actually think most people I speak to like the points because deep down everyone has got a little bit of competitive edge in them.

Oh, yeah.

They. Whether it's, you know, yes, you, you're comparing yourself to others but like you say it's actually, can you just be better than, Than you were yesterday. And I think actually having the points is a really useful way for you to know whether you're being better than you were, but also to benchmark yourself against other people and go, well, hey, how have they done that? And then, but instead of, yeah, but typically what we find is most people at that point then go, hey, can we have a chat? How did you, how do you do that? Can we, yeah, we replicate that? Rather than it being like a zero sum game of, well, they can only be one, one company that does that. As a B corp in the world, it's like, well no, every B corp can have a fair trade supply chain or what have you. It's like, let's, let's learn how to go and do it.

So anyway, yeah, I like the system. I definitely have that competitive edge. But it's kind of like, it's like positive peer pressure which, you know, there's a lot to be said for the effectiveness of that. And for us, like we certified at 96.7 the first time and then 111.2 the second time. And so it felt like, oh cool, I've actually made a decent improvement. And then when I get sort of 120 plus next time. So it gives you a goal to work towards, I guess.

I totally agree. So first time round, were there any. Yeah, so 96, like that's a really solid first time score that, that's like real proof that you're doing some good stuff. You know, a solid score was. Yeah. Were there any sort of surprises where you kind of maybe thought, oh, we didn't think that was worth any points or we hadn't thought that that might contribute to B Corp or yeah. Any just sort of surprises or highlights of that, of that first time round?

There were so many things that surprised me the first time around. I think, I think it was just because the, the depth of what they wanted to know was really. I was like, oh okay, they actually want me to go find that out. Wow, I haven't thought about that before. Like there really were things. I remember that spreadsheet where it was like you needed to track the exact miles.

Of each item getting to you. So all your ingredients and all your packaging and how exactly how many miles they've taken to get to you. I was like, wow, that's pretty comprehensive. And then who owns all the companies you're buying from? Are they privately held? Are they multinationals? What's the gender split in the company? What's the, like just, just the detail that was, I was like, wow, this is. They really have thought about this. You know, it wasn't like. It wasn't easy at all.

I like to call it rigorous, but achievable. It's. Yeah, it's certainly, you know, here's our money. We'd like a logo. Please say, how could you.

Not at all.

It's actually. Okay. Now we have to be doing this. And. Yeah. It's not just, oh, of course. Of course we do that. So show me.

Yeah, yeah.

Which is why it's. People are coming towards it because it's. It is rigorous.

Yeah.

It's. It's thorough and it's social and environmental. Not just like you say. Yeah, Toy two is great.

Yeah.

But it's very specific. Yeah. Versus more holistic.

Yeah.

And so where did you get the points increase? Was it. Was there like one particular initiative or was it, you know, lots of markets that led you?

Yeah, it was a bunch. It was probably around processes, actually. Like, that was the thing.

I.

Because we put quite a lot of effort the last couple of years, you know, since setting up a board, for example, so we'd never had a board, so we only set that up in the last couple of years. We created like a. Like a health and safety kind of working committee for improving all of that. We didn't have one of those before. It was done more informally. So I think that really helped us the last time around, just having more structure, more governance, more like checks around certain areas of the business. That definitely helped us gain points.

Nice. Because, yeah, it's something that we always talk to people. You know, the B corp is a verification of what you are doing, but it's also an impact guide for you to work out where you could do better. And you've just been a textbook example of that. It's like, verify the good that we are doing. Work out where we can do more. And I guess it's do. Do more good with what you can without sort of destroying the company or breaking the bank.

Yeah.

What can we work on? What have we got the resource to do that is meaningful for us, that's going to be meaningful for our stakeholders and then. Yeah, go again next time. Right.

Yep. So for the next one, I put together a spreadsheet of. Here's all the areas. We could gain more points if we wanted to focus on them. And I think I totaled up that we get an extra like 33 points if we did all of them, you know, which would be a mega effort. So it's unlikely we're going to get all of them done. But. And then we can kind of pick and choose the ones where that we're going to put the energy and focus into before the next audit. Assuming that by the next audit we still have the point system. Because I think the, the new, the new stuff's coming into play sort of early next year maybe, but I think it's going to be a gradual rollout.

Yeah. The rumor I've heard is it might be pushed back a bit because I think they got a, they got way more feedback on it than they thought they were going to get and I think they're. I think it's been mixed is my understanding. And yeah, talking to the B lab team in Aussie, what they seem to be saying is for B corps like you and my, yours or mine that have sort of built their impact around the current model, you might have a complete recertification cycle before you have to start thinking about the next one. So that you've basically got possibly six years now for you to start thinking about the new one. Because yeah, I mean we're a three time B corp. So yeah, we, I've built my model on the current system and so yeah, to suddenly have to unbundle some of it and change it, it's. Yeah, so that's my understanding. Yeah, don't hold me to account for that. But that's, yeah, that's the rumor I've heard on the street, which I think would be. And, and typically when they have updated the certification over the years, they have given a grace period to say, well if you've already started on this one, then you can continue. However, on this date in a year's time, if you haven't submitted on the current one, you will automatically be put on to the next one. So they're normally pretty good at navigating that. So yeah, watch this space, I suppose.

Yes.

Yeah. So you mentioned the board stuff and that's really interesting thing.

Been talking to a few people recently. Main one, Sandra Smithall based in Auckland. She approached me at a B local event in Auckland a couple of months ago and said, oh, you're the Beacon bloke. I said yes. And she said all right, well you'll be able to tell me where do I go to do a course on ESG and governance? And I said that's a very good question. I don't know that there is one. And she said well, I'm looking for one. So she specializes as like a professional director. And she said I've looked for one as well. I can't find one. So we've started scheming on maybe creating a course for directors and CEOs on what does actually ESG and governance look like. And so curious what your path has been like in terms of like the makeup of your board because one thing I've certainly found with some B corps who've. Who've. Who've got boards is the board doesn't really understand the B corp and they're still thinking in just, you know, minimize risk, maximize financial return. And then a couple of them have maybe got carbon in their head as like that's the big thing that you should be looking at. Where this one company for example that I'm thinking of, they were a tech. Well, they're a tech company and you know, we work remotely. Our carbon emissions are basically nothing. There's no point us reporting that on a weekly basis for you as a board because it's a waste of our time when actually the biggest thing for us is maybe client selection. It's, you know, products. There's a whole bunch of other stuff. And so I think we're in this really interesting phase where we've got a lot of governance people, some of whom have no interest at all in business for good and purpose and not profit. Some who have got enough information to be dangerous and are just prodding at.

The wrong thing.

To be dangerous. I like that description.

And. And possibly a handful at the end who genuinely get it.

And yeah.

Have actually worked with a. Because yeah, I believe you might have got someone on your board who used to be the CEO of a B corp. Is that correct?

Yeah. So we're kind of lucky in that way because. So the chair of our board is Leon Clement and he was CEO of Sinlay and he put them through the B Corp process or sort of drove that certification process. So he understands be really well.

Yeah.

And really rates it and backs it and that's awesome. And then our other representation is from our major investor pioneer and they are going through the certification process themselves at the moment. So they're also gaining a sort of firsthand experience of it too. So. Yeah, so we've got really good beacon of understanding and backing. I think everyone is into it and we've made it sort of a foundational goal. You know, it's like a pillar of our business strategy is to achieve at a really high level with our, with our B Corp certification. So.

Nice. So it sounds like you've got a sort of a depth or. Yeah, a level of understanding. So. And do you find. I mean, obviously without giving away information that you can't be giving away. But in general, the conversations at the board level, they're understanding the balance between purpose and profit. It's not just. Yeah, but teach the numbers. The numbers. The numbers. The numbers. It is.

Yeah. People do care about numbers.

They do a lot. Yeah. Look at the be called number people. The B caught number.

Yeah, that's the number that's going up really, really quickly.

It's really good. Yeah.

I've always been the person that, I mean, for me, I've never really cared that much about profit. Like with, you know, different things that I've done, I kind of. I'm very. I'm very impact focused. That's sort of just me. But. But it. I need balancing out on that. So that's why I said my co founder is really good at balancing me or, you know, in the early days, because I probably would have given away all our profit and not necessarily reinvested enough back in the business. And so he would be like, well, actually dish, we're gonna need to allocate this over here. So just, you know, ease your back on those initiatives that you want to do. So I recognize you need the mix, but I do think that it's becoming increasingly important and increasingly valued at all levels to do this stuff now. And that's what I'm excited about, because it doesn't feel like it just has to be kind of one passionate person within an organization anymore. There's like actual pressure coming in from all sides, from consumers, from new governance standards, from new reporting standards that people are requesting, banks even, you know, like, it's. It's all moving in that direction. So, yeah, I think everyone can see that and recognize that. And so finally this sort of stuff is getting the attention that it needs and the importance that it needs. And it's getting a dedicated time within a board meeting to be looked at and talked about. And I'm sure that just didn't used to happen, like, not so long ago, I. I would be very surprised if it was happening as many boards. So. Yeah. So we have an impact section in every board meeting to talk about this stuff.

Nice. Yeah. I'd say the vast majority of companies, the board is still focused on.

Yeah, numbers. Numbers.

Yeah. Revenue and risk. Like, where are we at risk? You know, why? We're not making as much money as we. As we could be. And I think this is the interesting. Because obviously with the new purpose and stakeholder requirement for the Constitution, I think that this is where Sarge and I are really interested. There's a bunch of board members who are maybe working for companies or working on company boards where they've kind of gone, yeah, sure, go and do this B Corp thing. And then it's like that, actually, you now have a legal, you know, a responsibility to uphold this constitution and to, to actually think about this stuff. And I think this is where Sandra and I are really interested is. Is actually how many board members can actually think that way. You know, it's less around. Well, here's a flowchart of. Because health and safety, it's kind of fairly logical and, you know, we need to make sure that people are safe. They've been trained so that they don't do stupid things. And any areas where they could do a stupid thing, we put a barrier.

Prevented it.

Yeah. To prevent it. Was it the whole. Yeah, I can't remember that. I did a health and safety course when I was working in the, in the construction sector myself. Yeah. Mitigate, remove, or whatever it is. There's the three. Three basic principles. But yeah, with, with thinking of purpose and impact. It's more of a spiritual, metaphysical consciousness thing. And that's, that's the challenge is getting people who've only been taught to think about. Think in numbers to actually think in a more holistic people planet. And I think that that for me is at the crux of what this esg, because, yeah, it could just be another course with. Here's a checklist. You know, have you polluted the environment? Have we done that? Okay, we haven't done that. Okay. That's the start. Are we paying people enough money to survive? Oh, well, some of them. Okay, well, we'll, you know, it's like. Well, it's deeper than that. And, and I think that's the tricky thing, but I think it's really refreshing to hear that, you know. Yeah. You know, you've obviously got a couple of board members who, who are getting it or, or at least. Or maybe you're on the journey to getting it.

And I think it's.

It's going to become more. Because, yeah, I think, you know, I would suggest Leon is probably one of the only people to. Because I think he was on the board at Sinle as well as CEO.

Yes.

So he's possibly one of the only directors who's been on the board.

Both sides.

Well, who's been on the board of 2B Corps. I mean, how many, how many. How many other people have transitioned between two. I remember there was a lady.

I can't remember her name. Now, but she used to work for Toy2 and then she moved to Kathmandu and this was about five years ago. I said to her, you are possibly the first Inter B Corp transfer in New Zealand.

Yeah.

Interesting, because we haven't, you know, we.

Haven'T had enough of them.

And enough at scale for, you know, possibly you to pinch the operations manager from Fix and Fog or whatever, or vice versa. It's like we haven't had that much cross pollination. It's all been quiet vertically, sort of siloed just, just by nature of. Well, you've only been around for a few years.

Yeah, true. So that's so true.

I think there's going to be some interesting periods coming up as. As more and more B Corps come through and there are, you know, I look back and go, you know, I am fundamentally unemployable. But when I was looking at trying to find a job with more purpose and meaning, there were only two B Corps in New Zealand.

Right. Is it this one?

Yeah. Neither of which were hiring.

Almost. Yeah. A bit like yourselves. Like, we'll stuff it. I'll just make my own B Corp. Come. Just start my own party instead of joining your party.

It's like you say, like all of this stuff, they're intangibles and it's just such an interesting space to work in, like trying to put value on something that's innately intangible. There's this really good book by Rory Sutherland. It's called Alchemy. I don't know if you know it. He sees a marketing guy I know, Roy Sutherland.

Yeah.

He talks about. Yeah. The value of intangible and, and how you might not realize, but it can change everything. So. Yeah, and it can. And I. And I think this stuff has so much value, even though it's hard to put into a quantifiable, tiny little spreadsheet for people to look at. But if you took it away, you know, if we took all of this, all this good stuff out of regular food co. All the values and all the good that we do and so on. If we just took it away, what would we be like? We'd be an empty shell of a company.

So it's just not. Yeah, it's hard to define, but so important it is.

I think this is, this is the challenge. Because if you try and make the intangible tangible, it sometimes loses its magic.

Yeah, you take the magic out of it.

And I think this is. This is the challenge in my. In my mind for this. ESG courses. How do you Get. Because most boards are made up of very tangible types of people. It's lawyers, accountants, you know, insurance. The numbers, people, the numbers. It's logic. It's spread. Like I said, it's spreadsheet. And actually, it's not about that. It's. What is the feeling that we all have, knowing that we've made some cool impact today? Yes, we might be able to put a number on, okay, we gave out X number of free jars of yogurt. But how did that make those people feel? And what's the impact that that's had in that family, which has now resonated into another company, you know, and, you know, the tendrils of impact that are going off in all directions that we will never be able to measure.

But.

Yeah, but you do know that they're there. And I think this is the thing. It's. It's.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's love, really. Like, it's brand love. You know, Like, I meet people and talk to them, and they've had some positive interaction with us at some point, and it might have been years ago, but they haven't forgotten that. You know, they've kept buying the yogurt because of that. It's. Yeah, it's a beautiful thing, but very hard to. Yeah. Quantify.

And as I say this in one of my workshops, you know, people won't remember what you had. They remember what you did and how you did it, but you can't. You can't measure that. You can measure. Well, I have this map in my bank account. But you can't measure, you know, because there'll be talks that you've given or something that you've done. There'll be hundreds of people who you have impacted, but they'll never tell you that they impacted you. And you will never know. But you can go, well, we sold a thousand units of yogurt today.

Yeah. I'd love to have a fake funeral. I've thought about this multiple times. You know, like one of those funerals.

Fake your own death.

Yeah. Where all these people come out of the woodwork and they're like, wow. You know, and you get to hear all that stuff because you're still secretly alive. They're actually listening in from your coffin.

Who's that person with the beard at the back there? I don't know. That's a bit familiar, though.

Suspiciously like Tiege.

She's got the same hat as Tish.

What's going on there?

Yeah.

I don't know if I could pull it off.

Yeah. In Raglan, you might struggle with such a close knit community.

Yeah, yeah, a little bit bad.

And so, yeah, tell us a bit about some of the impact stuff that you're doing.

Well, there's quite a range of things. We've tried a bunch of things as well that sort of have worked and some things haven't worked so we've ended up dropping them.

But we have a few things for the team. So we have like a health and well being fund. That was kind of a, a new idea. We didn't know anyone else who was doing one, so we kind of came up with it ourselves. So wanting to find a way to help people with things that fall outside acc because ICC is great but only if you're injured. So more like preventative things. Things like seeing a naturopath or a nutritionist or getting counseling. Yeah. So we have this fun separate bank account set aside for the team and then they can apply if something comes up. It could be like an emergency dental experience expense or one of the team needed like a colonoscopy or you know, those sorts of things. And then we can fund it so we can either fully funded or go halves with them, depending on the situation. And that's been kind of cool and people that I've told, you know that too have said, oh, we might want to do something like that. Now. Companies have ended up kind of advising a couple of other companies on setting one up and it's not particularly complex to set up or to run, but it's, you know, it can make like a real difference for people who need it.

And just the other week, or just last week actually I was handing out moon cups to all the female members of the team because I was thinking we have an all female production team now, which is. It's just sort of ended up that way. Yeah, it's been interesting to see it shift. We used to have almost all dudes and then for a while it was sort of 5050 and now we've ended up with all the ladies. Yeah, I was trying to think about what can we do for them, you know, what would be something that would. And so that's like reducing waste to landfill and then also benefiting them and saving the money. And I just had a meeting today with this amazing local lady, one of the founders of the Extreme Zero Waste Recycling center here, which was quite sort of New Zealand leading and its practices. They've advised Auckland Council on how to do compost collections and that sort of thing. Yes, she came over today and we were talking about Setting up a, like a dedicated worm farm to deal with our like, coconut fat waste from when we filter out our water and we end up with a sort of sludgy coconut fat stuff. We're like, oh, maybe the worms can turn this into something nutritious. So that might be something we look to kind of co. Fund with them and, and take them up our, our fat and they can turn it into something good.

Yeah, we're doing all kinds of things.

What's the product you've got in? Is it Miter 10 or Bunnings?

Yeah, I was just gonna mention those. Yeah, thanks for reminding me. The, the braziers, the reforged braziers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was another sort of B Corp initiative was like, oh, what can we do with waste? You know, where's the waste? Can we do something cool with it? And yeah, taking our empty steel drums, turning them into a product, selling them through Bunnings so they're actually, you know, something useful, something beautiful. It was just going to scrap before.

Yep.

So they're nationwide and. Yeah. And then the Vibe Lifter program that I mentioned before, that's been really cool. We've done three grants so far and then. Yeah. Backing all sorts of different initiatives with that. And then this year we were working towards the climate positive with Toy too. So we only just got that a couple of months ago. So quite a bit of work and effort went into that. And then the other meeting I had today was kicking off our Lifecycle assessment process. That's something else for BCorp. We've had sort of in the pipeline of. I would really like to do that one day. So getting that underway, we've had quite a few meetings with them already planning it out and now we're, you know, going ahead so doing that for three products to start with from our, our Big Jar range, our best sellers, 700 grams. Yeah. So there's, there's always heaps going on.

Nice.

It's just finding, finding the time really to do all the ideas that come up.

Nice. Well, it's a good place to be though. And I think once, like you say, if you've got a baseline of big values driven and then using the B Corp framework, you're, you're kind of, your eyes are just open, looking for opportunity.

Yeah.

And that's just a really good place to be. Do you find the staff kind of get engaged and involved with, with suggestions and ideas around, hey, could we do this? Could we do that? Or can we do this slightly differently? Is that, is that A thing as well.

Yeah. I want to get more engagement going. I want to create like a dedicated B Corp action group. We haven't really had that. So out of this last audit, I was thinking that, yeah, I want to make a little team and we sort of prepare for the next audit together. I've sort of done the bulk of it myself and called in people here and there for their areas, but it's just. Yeah, it's sort of extra workload, I guess, on top of the stuff they're already doing.

Yep.

But I think it would be more fun to. Yeah. Look at it together. But they're really great at suggesting things. I remember. Yeah. Just recently they were like, oh, we should be supporting the school, you know, with excess yogurt. Can we start up a donation thing with them? And we're like, yeah, definitely, let's do that. So now we're doing that. We have started a, like a Rangatahi work experience program for youth. So I've had a couple come through and have like a paid sort of traineeship so they can get some good work experience for their CV and something to help them get a job. So the team were all involved in that. You know, they were looking after them and training them and so on. So we're hoping to have a couple more come through early next year. I had another team member make a suggestion about helping people living with disabilities to get work experience. So I was just chatting with a lady about that recently. She had a. A guy on the autism spectrum who was interested in coming and getting some work experience. So we'll see if we can make something work for them. And I don't know, there's always. Yeah, there's always something popping up and people have ideas and.

Yeah, nice, nice. Just good people.

Yeah, they are. They're really good people and they all care about different things. So that's the other thing that I found. We've kind of. We've ended up supporting a really eclectic range of things over the years because various people are like, well, I want to support the orangutan. So. So we have. We've sponsored two orangutans for, like, five years because Chris, one guy who's now no longer here, was really keen on supporting the orangutan. So, you know, that's sort of his thing. And others are like, well, surf, life saving, do something for them. And so, yeah, so we're spread across quite a few different things, but I.

Think that's kind of good. Yeah. And I think I would definitely get. Get a Team together for the B corp. Because there will be people in the team who will want to be part of it.

Yeah.

In a company like yours, they won't see it as like a burden or an extra responsibility. Be like, oh, this is so cool. I get to kind of close the loop on what I'm seeing in my role and how we can be a better company. That's typically. Yeah. What. What we find with people anyway.

Yeah.

And so I guess you sort of touched on it a little bit before, but that balancing purpose and profit, you would probably just be all purpose. Don't care about the numbers.

The last podcast that I recorded, not sure what order they're going to come out in, but yeah, James Stewart from Gemelli Consulting. So he, he is a hundred percent. Well, he donates all of his profit to charity at the end of the year.

That's beautiful.

Yeah.

Small consulting business though, so possibly a bit easier to navigate that. Yeah. So you would clearly be all in on. On impact, but you've got the board and the numbers people kind of pulling you back and does that generally you feel that that's working because obviously the more revenue you get, the bigger impact you can have. It's that.

Yeah.

Juggle, isn't it? Between. Okay, well, we can either go all in on impact now, but actually if we double our production, then we have potentially double the revenue, which means we can. So yeah. Is that. Is that something you've kind of come to terms with in general?

Oh, definitely. Like, I really see the value in it. You want to be a financially viable business. And I see so many businesses that have gone under, like, since we've started. So many of my friends have had little enterprises that have, you know, gone valley up and it's so sad because they put all this energy and love into it and then it hasn't worked because the numbers couldn't work. So I've got a. An ever increasing appreciation for numbers, even though it's not like naturally my wheelhouse. But, you know, I've gotten pretty good with that side of things over the years as well. But then, yeah, in terms of my own values and what I do in my spare time, like, I've. I've created a charitable trust, the Values Trust, which I set up nearly two years ago, a year and a half ago, and with two other trustees. And so I'm spending all my extra time and money is all going into the trust and just all for good projects that we're doing with that. So we've got three focus areas. The three Cs climate, creatures, children's Literacy.

So, yes, I'm funneling everything I'm making out of the business into the Value Trust. So very similar, probably to that guy you were just talking about, James Stewart, who I haven't met and probably similar to. I think.

Yeah, a brand's doing something quite similar. Right. With her foundation and. Yep, yep. Which is really cool. So, yeah, it's really nice to see more of that sort of thing happening. I guess, like, people are just wanting to make it all about giving back, which was awesome.

Yeah.

Yeah. So I guess the business needs to stay viable so we can keep employing people and keep growing and keep doing all the things that we're doing. And. And then I feel like, yeah, putting. Putting that sort of success into something good is the satisfying part. Yeah, nice.

Super typical. Yeah. No, I mean, you're. You're a poster child. B Corp, in many ways. You know, a teak is. Has always been one of my favorites because they were pretty early on in the piece.

Yeah.

But I think, yeah, yours is just another brand similar to Atiques, where I sort of say to people, you know, look at Ragnar Foucault, look at. Look at the teak. They're both really hard to hate because you're not doing anything bad.

Well, that's. I wouldn't agree, because it's so hard to not do anything bad. Like, that's what I've realized that you can't. Any. Any activity. You know, we're using refrigerant for the chiller and we have trucks delivering our yogurt. And, like, there's plastic that things come wrapped in on pallets that we can get rid of because that's how they ship it to us. Like, so I, that's the, you know, I can still feel guilt about that sort of stuff because I know we do have a footprint. We are creating emissions. We're not, you know, it's. Someone has a line. Maybe this is Seb's line, but something about like an elephant walking in the forest is always going to snap some twigs or something to that effect. That's a classic sibling. And, yeah, just because you're growing means you're going to end up doing something even if you don't want to, and you're trying really hard not to. So, yes, I know we will be having some negative impacts as well, but hopefully we're, you know, balancing that out with all the other stuff we're doing.

But I think you're aware of it and you're. And you're. Doing the best that you can. And I think that that's what I mean.

It's like, we're certainly trying.

Your companies, you know, everything you've talked about today, it's like you've clearly got a really good lens on where you can be better. And I think that's what I mean, it's like, you know, because Ethique is not a perfect company, but it's. It's pretty hard to hate them because there's a lot of what they do is. Is, you know, the intentionality behind it and the scale of the impact that they're making is so good. And I put you in that same boat. You know, the intent and the scale of where you're doing good and you know, how you can do more good. It's. It's just really cool. So don't feel so guilty because you're, you know, you're doing so much already. You're doing so much more than, you know, most other companies in the world, you know, we're still at only, I think I look today, 7200B Corps. It's still like 0.01% of the world is even. Is even thinking about doing the good that you're doing already. So you're.

It's just we've got so far to go. Like, it is a bit discouraging when you think about it. Like, you know, we're doing our tiny little bit and then. Yeah. Anyway, I. When I think too hard about climate change and everything that's happening, it does start to get a bit.

Yep.

Can be a bit overwhelming. You know, it's. There's just so much to do.

Just. You can just do what you can do, really. You know.

Yeah. And that's it.

Again, you don't. Don't underestimate the influence that you. You will be having a massive influence. There's probably, you know, a thousand people eating your product going, I want to do something like this. Whether it's a mayonnaise or, I don't know, whatever, or maybe another company. Like, there's. Yeah. Just don't underestimate and because I know on your website you've got a really cool impact page.

Yes.

Someone. We were working with a client the other day and they said, oh, we want to do something like that. Like what. What Raglan Fuka are doing. I was like, yeah.

Oh, that's nice.

You should. You should totally have a one page, just with all your impact. I mean, we advise that to everyone. It's like, just put it up there. You know, be proud to highlight the stuff that, that you're doing because people want to know that you do some good stuff. Yeah.

Although there's the flip side of that at the moment, and I don't know if you've seen this with the other B cops that you talk to, but there's that side where, because people are getting slammed, you know, so ruthlessly these days, like literally canceled over whatever thing they've said or done that wasn't right. And someone told me a phrase for it recently, I hadn't heard it before. I think it was green hushing. Green hushing or green shushing? Yeah, that's the one. And so, like, purposely not talking about the things you're doing just in case the things you're doing aren't good enough and then someone has a go at you for them. So that's real shame. I think that's such a negative atmosphere. We shouldn't encourage that.

No, but you're always going to get those people. And it's like, you know, my reply to that is always, yeah, don't read the comments on stuff. You know.

Yes. Unless you want to feel depressed.

There are people who just want to go out their way to make you feel bad. And there's always going to be a. But if you can. And I think this is the thing, you know, if you can say, well, no, hang on. We are a certified B corporation. We are in the top 0.01% of businesses globally measuring and reporting our social and environmental impact. Here's all the stuff we're doing. You tell me where we can do better. Come and be, be an advisor. Come and come and sit in on a board meeting. And you come, you come and give us five ideas. We'll look at them. They won't have five ideas because they're those kind of people who just want to tear stuff down. And you're always going to get them. But my advice to companies that we're working with, and B Corps in general, is if you can tell, tell the story. If it's authentic and it's transparent and it's true and it's good, it doesn't. If it's not perfect, that's okay. But explain why it's not perfect and explain why you can't fix it. Because sometimes it is systemic. It's like there's just. There is no other solution. This is the best that there is. I mean, Steve from Eagle Protects, a great example of that. B Corp, number one in New Zealand, they sell single use disposable rubber gloves.

Yes, I remember this one.

If when you're making your products, I imagine you have to put.

Probably using some gloves. Yeah, yeah.

Well, so as a consumer, would I rather you, you and your production team are wearing rubber gloves so that I'm not going to get possibly salmonella or E. Coli and, and for that you're going to have to produce some landfill or would I rather. There's no landfill and possibly one in a thousand people get some awful, horrible disease from, from your product which is going to end up with you being shut down. So, you know, there is a hard barrier there to which you can do no more good than be using the best glove that you can, which would be Steve's. But I know that Steve is working on programs to try and develop other forms of barrier technology that isn't a disposable glove. But at the minute, you know, that doesn't exist. Doesn't exist. So, you know, don't hate the player, hate the game. And it's, it's, you know, they're doing the best that they can. And if you want to come and be a part of that solution, I'm all ears. But don't throw rocks at me because it's not perfect because, you know, there is no 200 point B corp. No one has one B corp. There is no company that can just go, yeah, we are holier than anyone and all. And now. And yeah, so, you know, it's, yeah, it's a journey. Keep telling the good that you're doing, do it authentically and, and explain where you can't do any more good, and that's, that's all you can do. And the haters are going to potate, and let them potate. What do they know?

Very true.

Cool. So finishing up then. So what, what does being a B Corp mean to you?

To me, it means that we're doing the very best thing that we can, given available options, to make sure that we're actually making a difference. So it's like a tangible way of tracking the difference that we're making.

And it's the best framework that I found to do that. I don't think a better one exists.

Yeah. So I'm into it and I've helped so many people to, you know, do it as well and look into it as well, because I really think it is, it is positive. You know, if you, if you implement the suggested changes, it's going to make a positive impact. It's like unavoidable, you know, because they're actually Genuinely good ideas. And the first time we went through it, there were heaps of things that prompted us to think about that we hadn't thought about before. And now we have all those things in place and we're better for it. Like, it's kind of like business coaching or business consulting, but very practical. So, yeah, I think it's great.

100%. Cannot agree more. And so looking to the future, what. What does the future look like for B Corp, do you think, looking 10.

Years maybe into the future, B Corp itself? Well, I am hoping, like, I'm hoping that we just get to a point where it's just the norm and it's just expected, I guess, just sort of the standard for having a good business. And you're kind of almost looked down on in that kind of positive peer pressure way if you're not one. Because people are like, oh, you haven't become a B Co op yet. Oh, well, okay, you know, why have you not done that? And, yeah, it's almost like you have something to hide or something.

That would be. I don't know if we'll get there in 10 years, but, yeah, that would be the goal.

I could get that. I'm looking at getting some T shirts made up with just the slogan. Do you even be caught on it?

Yeah, that's good. That's funny.

Just to start that. Positive peer pressure.

Yeah, yeah.

And so what does the future look like for Raglan Foucault? You're committed to Raglan, clearly.

Yes.

There's no. No move gonna happen. But, yeah, what's.

What's the future look like? Keen on moving at all.

I know not so long ago you. Was it. You had the Aioli products that you've launched.

So, yes.

Anything else that you can. You can tell people about, or is it all Secret Squirrel product development? Can't tell anyone.

Quite a lot of things are Secret Squirrel. But the big news at the moment, which we're just sort of starting to tell people about, is launching in the us so literally this month, our first product's going out into some stores in the New York area. So we've been working towards that for four years now. It's been a really long journey. We've hired a GM over there, Elizabeth. She's really lovely. We found a production partner over there as well. So, you know, so we're not shipping it because the freight would be ridiculous and definitely not good for emissions. And it's pretty exciting because it's. I reckon it's a big, exciting, cool market. We've registered as a B corp over there as well. So, yeah, committed to the same standards for the US Side of things. And, yeah, just four. Four flavors to start with. We're going to see how they go and see what the feedback is from people, but hopefully it's. It's gonna be a hit because there does seem to be a gap. The stuff over there, there's lots of options, but they don't taste that great. So we think our taste is definitely superior.

Nice. You got the secret, the 51 herbs and spices, whatever it is. KFC secret.

Way less than 51. Our yogurt's pretty short on ingredients, really, compared to KFC vanilla.

Put the two together. Away we go. I mean, that's super exciting. It must feel a little bit surreal, maybe going from just making it tiny little Raglan. Yeah, Raglan to the world. But. And do you think. I mean, the whole brand, NZ brand, Kiwi.

It's a plus. I feel. I feel that that's gonna be, you know, from this small town on the country that misses most maps, that people don't even know that it exists.

Yeah.

To your day in New York.

Some yogurt. Yeah.

With the story and the backstory and how, you know, starting in the kitchen, I think. I think the Americans will really appreciate your, like, the backstory.

They love a startup story. I mean, it's classic Shark Tank, which I've always wanted to go on just because it looks so fun.

Just throw yogurt at the. Take that, take that.

Have a taste. Yeah. But others have done it really well, like Fix and Fog.

Yep.

Launched really successfully in the U.S. lewis Road Creamery has done quite well. Yeah. So I guess we're following in the footsteps of people who have done it. I'm hoping we can do it, too.

Nice. Well, I have no doubt, based on what you've achieved and success to date and how you're just approaching in general, that it will be a huge success. I don't have many friends in New York, but I did speak to a film company the other day who were almost a B cop in New York. I will message him and say, hey, go and tell all your friends. Go check.

Yes, please.

Raglan Coke. Raglan Foucault. You'll get in your nearest deli.

Super exciting. Hey. Really good to chat. That's all. That's all I've got. Unless there's anything else you want to delve into, but I feel like we've covered a good amount of ground.

Yeah, I think we covered heaps.

Yeah. No, I just love your work, love what you're doing, love your approach to just being better over time. Like I say, you're a textbook approach to B Corp. Just get in there, get it done. Oh, wow. There's some stuff we could do. Let's go do it. Let's do it again, let's do it again and. Yeah, yeah, go you.

Thanks, Tim. That was fun chatting.

Yeah, likewise. Cool. Oh, well, catch you soon.

See ya.

Hey, it's Tim here, that B Corp bloke from Growgood. If you want more content on purpose, B Corp, how to do more good in the world as an individual or a business, then you know the drill. Hit the like and subscribe. Check out some other videos. They're probably floating around here somewhere. You know how it works. Thank you so much. See you next time.