#72 How non-profits can maximise profitability and impact with Laszlo Csite of 360tuned

Hey, kia ora shmay. Welcome back to the latest episode of the Be Better podcast. Thank you to those of you who are listening. Well, that's you. Because you're listening or watching. Yeah, we really appreciate people downloading this and watching it. And yeah, tell your friends, tell your mom, tell your dad, tell your brother, your sister, your auntie, your uncle, I don't know, tell everyone. Tell your dog, Tell Laszlo's dog, he's got a dog. I've got a dog. Tell everyone's dog that they should be listening. Every man and his dog should be listening to this podcast because we think it's pretty good. With me today for this latest episode, I have Laszlo. I actually should have asked. I don't know how to pronounce your last name. I'm not going to, I'm not going to butcher it. So you, you can tell me your last name or tell the listeners your last name. But yeah, we have Laszlo. How's it going, mate?

Thank you. Very good. Okay. My name is Laszlo Chitte. That's the Hungarian version, C S I t Citte. But in, in New Zealand, England and any American speaking or English speaking countries, I just say seaside.

Seaside.

Nice. Nice. Yeah. The, the British countries are really good at not take into consideration other people's names. It's like, yeah, you've got a few too many crazy letters in your name. So I'm either just like I did, I'll just not pronounce it or I'll pronounce it completely incorrectly. So, yeah, apologies, I should have checked that before we, before we started.

No, you did it very well. Just pass the board to the person who actually spelled his name.

Yeah, I mean, to be fair though, the number of times I making a phone order or need to leave my details and I'll go, yeah, my name's Tim Jones and I go, sorry, was that Ken? No, no, Tim. Oh, so did you say Sam? No, no, I said Tim. Oh, did you say it's like Tin? No, who do you know called Tin? It's Tim. It's like. And I don't know because, because I've got a bit of a, I've got a weird accent because it's part Kiwi, part British. And I think I try and over enunciate my name which then means it actually doesn't sound like my name. So sometimes I just say, yeah, my name's Dave. Or like a really easy name that you can't get.

Anyway. It's been so long since I've seen you. It's been What? Almost what? Probably 20 hours. 19 hours.

Yes.

Because. Because you are actually, because you live in Auckland but you are in Christchurch. And last night we, we should give a shout out to Kirk Sargent from the first foundation and Adam Harris of EOS and Frank and Fearless fame. Because Adam, a mate of mine, he texted me say hey, I'm in town, do you want to go for dinner? I was like, sure. And then Laszlo texted me say, hey, I'm in town, do you want to go for dinner? I was like, sure. Want to come for dinner with me and Adam? And then Adam texted me to say, hey, Kirk's taking us out for dinner. And I was like, oh great, awesome. And then I turn up at the restaurant and there's like 20 people.

And there's 21 people and we're like, Ah, okay. Yeah, so First foundation, really cool charity who support youth to be the first of their family to get into tertiary education. I did some work with Kirk through Big Bloom. So shout out to Gagana as well. Anyway, yeah, we had, we had a lovely dinner last night and you got to meet Adam and Kirk and yeah, so yeah, great to see you twice in such a short amount of time.

Absolutely. It's a pleasure to be in Christchurch. And I had team members and colleagues who said Christchurch is fantastic and I'm living it like every two weeks for a Thursday, Friday and a Thursday evening or Friday afternoon. I think it's very special meeting like minded people who are on the ground doing their job. And yeah, last night was very nice. A big team of graduates and a CEO who is visionary and has the tools to implement and you were the connector and Adam was really cool to talk to. So yeah, it proves that the big core community is everywhere, even if you don't call it big or. But like minded people business for good. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Super cool. So yeah, for people tuning in, other than just being a great bloke who, who I have dinner with whenever I can because the last time we were in Christchurch we had dinner together as well.

Yes.

Yeah. So. So who are you and. And tell us about. Yeah, what do you do?

Okay, so my origins are from Hungary. Don't go back 2000 years from Mongolia as we migrated to Europe. But it happened before I arrived.

So I went to in Hungary IT University, then MBA. I always wanted to travel. Hungary in the 80s was not a country for travel. They actually had a pretty iron curtain. But as soon as it fell, I joined KPMG. PwC started traveling to the US. UK was based in the US UK and they sent us to Holland, Germany and Switzerland. And I love traveling, so I did everything, even SAP and business consulting. So I was a management consultant.

And then we did backpacking with my girlfriend who's now my wife in New Zealand and Australia. And we realized New Zealand is so beautiful. We wanted to raise our kids here. Came here for two years just so they learn English. They learned English in a half a year in a kindy and maybe the other kids Hungarian because our kids were pretty dominant and communicative in the kindy and they started school. So we stayed one more year. One more year, one more year and it's now 15 years.

It's that classic. A classic, yeah.

Overseas experience.

Yeah. I came to New Zealand in 2004. I was like, I'll probably just go for a year. Came over on a working holiday visa. Yeah. 20 years later or almost 20 years later. Yeah. Marriage, child, house, dog, car.

Exactly. Even Christ. And then the. This is the personal background of professional is that once landed in New Zealand management consulting and big five consulting companies was not so much appealing to me. So I, I joined to be independent contractor after a year of being an employee in a small consulting studio. So we joined to Fonterra and then that was a two months long project. And then nine, nine years later I decided I had enough of the big corporates and I felt like after Roche, Shell, banks, insurance, oil, energy and dairy industry, I really wanted to work with like minded people who are interested in long term purpose. So that was the turning point. Two years ago I started my own coaching consulting company and for about a year and a half it was solo or a small team. And then I, in the last half a year, because of the first client recommendation to other clients now we are expanding into Christchurch, Australia and I'm building the team. So that's, that's the background.

Wow. Super, super cool. I said last night though, you, we were talking a bit about how you, you were really into your soccer though, weren't you? And you. That was.

Oh yes.

Or foot football. Sorry, I keep Adam who's British and then.

Correct.

Stop calling it soccer, it's football fair comment. So yeah, you were big into football and that was sort of a path that you were, you were sort of keen to explore. But mum, Mum had other ideas. She was like, yes, yeah.

And it's. She almost like an immigrant. You study and you, you can stick. But basically we were in a small village. The only education institute was a small school. And I didn't tell you but it may be interesting. My first school I had only one classmate. So year one, we had a class of two. Year two had four. Year three had two. Year four, sorry, Year one, two. Year two, four. Year three, two. And year four, the highest level of the low class one. So nine students, one teacher, that was the start. And one library, one pub and actually two pubs and two churches.

Two churches, one school. You got your priorities right.

Yeah, exactly. And then I was very much in football. I love playing football, like anyone, I guess in Europe. And then really I was selected to an academy to, to start playing in my age group as a semi pro. And then my mom said, no, you better study because the world is bigger than just football. And I hated that idea. But I followed her advice. I had to. And then it turns out she was right. Like with education you can travel overseas, you can stick around, you can actually pick and choose your jobs and your contracts. So she gave me that freedom on the lowest decile I think we could start. But I'm proud to be here in New Zealand and actually helping other like minded people who might be from a small island or a small village, but actually education can bring them opportunities.

Yeah. And so no regrets. You don't, you don't look at the World cup go. I could have, I could have kicked a free kick better than that. I would have scored that goal or a big. Yeah, you're okay with the path?

Yes. Yeah. The other, I'm okay with football, but I also wanted to play on a guitar and mom said, you better study. So it's like, no. So I just turned 50 and I have bucket list. On top of the bucket list is playing on the guitar, like properly learning Spanish and not playing football but traveling. So yeah, I just delayed 50, 49 years or 41 years, those dreams.

Have you maintained the soccer though over the years? Have you played like socially?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it turns out that our soccer team. Sorry, football team at university.

I'm corrupting you.

I never played soccer.

Yeah, I don't ever play football. Yeah.

So our football team at the university became the indoor hockey called floorball team. A Scandinavian. Hungarian. Hungarian who emigrated to Scandinavia, invented a sport, ice hockey. Trainings are expensive, so he downgraded to plastic sticks and no ice. But same technique. So he introduced this sport. It became wildfire. Number three sport in Scandinavia. And our football team became the first national team there. We won the national championships and we were invited to Finland and to Sweden to represent Hungary in that. And we were beaten up very, very seriously by the Scandinavians, the Czech, the Swiss or the Ice hockey nations just switched, but it was fantastic. So again, a bit of sports. But I think education have more.

And I mean, I guess we only know our own experiences of growing up. But you've got kids who've grown up in New Zealand. What was growing up in Hungary in the sort of 70s and 80s like, compared to what your kids. Do you. Yeah. Do you see them just having. Presumably having a bit more opportunity? But yeah. How does that. What does that look like between the two?

So yeah, shout out to put on my main client who's a nonprofit and is the c. And she says always my. My parents ceiling is my floor. So my parents were, you know, blue collar factory workers in a small village. So very minimum opportunities. But they gave me the education so I could be white and office worker and knowledge worker. Being in a child, being a child in the. So 73 till 89 or even 2000, Hungary was very much locked down with the Iron Curtain. Everything was dictated by the Soviet Union and we had no resources at all. It's like Latin America just in speaking in Hungarian. So very minimum opportunities. The. The only thing that really excited me was the Jules Verne books, you know, 80 days or. Or yeah. Traveling towards the center of the world or the flying machines, everything. So that. That gave me the opportunity to actually imagine the world is bigger. And then I tried to track down any relative of abroad so I can visit and stay there on a long visa. And I finally, when I could track down one auntie, like second auntie in France, she dared to die just in that month when I had my passport. So it's like minimal opportunities. And the education was very strong. Like Romania, Germany, Austria, Czech Republic. Very, very strong practical education, theoretical education, very strong mathematics. So it helped me to resolve problems. And I think that's helping me in New Zealand as well. Like seeing the connection between the dots and very high work ethic. I think we as a child, we had to study hard and yeah. Play hard in sport as well, but work hard. Which is definitely a different culture that my children are living here in New Zealand. Especially teenagers.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Teenagers do anything. Yeah. Good luck with that because. Yeah. Because. Because Hungary was. Because. Was it the Hungarian invasion? Was that like 1968, 1969, was it or was it.

Yeah, 57, 56. Exactly. So we had a revolution where we tried to break out from the Soviet Union.

Yeah.

The extra countries in Europe, Central Europe. And they came with tanks. Then in 67, I think Czech Republic tried. They came with tanks as well. And then with the German wall broken down in 89 we, we decided, okay, we go wild as well. And then we joined to the European Union in 2003. We never ever could get into the Eurozone because we were like Colombia playing with fire.

You know, what is inflation? It's like a foreign.

So we are still independent compared to many euro countries. And it was tough, it was hard. There was no opportunities. The only thing that helped me was the education, opening the door for big corporations like big companies. KPMG, PwC, they give fantastic onboarding trainings and that I highly recommend to any junior or any graduate. Go to the biggest company you can and they will rotate you, they will teach you that skills and then the older you are, I believe the more impact you can make and then the smaller organization and then you end up like you on your own company. Me like my own company? The biggest impact is from our own life journey.

So you went to university in Hungary as well?

Yes, yeah, it was an IT university like Dunedin. Half the city was university students, the other half locals and always fight in the pubs in between zones. Like you don't come to, to campus area. We didn't go to city area. City, but there was a bit of collision damage in the middle.

In, in the uk they call it town and gown. So like the, you know, the gowns of the other students. So I, I mean I lived, I didn't go to Oxford University, went to Cardiff University. But growing up as a teenager, you know, going to the pubs in Oxford, yeah, you'd have this complete cultural clash of, you know, the highest standards of academia with yes guys working on the production line of the, of the, you know, the Mini car is made, well made in Oxford, you know, finished in Oxford. So yeah, you got these, you know, you walk into the wrong pub at the wrong time and they hear, they hear the wrong accent. It's. Yeah, it's all on. Yeah, I know what that's.

By the time you order, you're already in a fight because they hear you ordering.

Yeah, yeah, well, you order the wrong drink. Yeah, he's ordered a what wine?

Yeah.

What? Yeah, classic. And so, so yeah, PwC, KBMG, working for them in Hungary. You got to go around the world, end up in New Zealand. So yeah, so. So tell us, so what are you doing now? What's. Yeah, what's this all led to?

Yeah, so.

I felt a bit of a guilt, to be honest, like work working for big organizations and was frustrated because we, we spent so much money on great big projects and programs. We had all the resources and all, all the money and the plan and really great people to work with. But I didn't feel satisfaction of actually helping actively. And I couldn't see the result of our projects obviously on the PNL statement and profit and loss and you know, statistics. We moved the needle for Frontera and others. But I was really, if you were asked, I was always purpose driven. I was interested in purpose, but I wasn't practicing it. And I was very selfish. Traveling for money, like working for money with travel. So nice hotels and nice projects, great people. But I always wanted to do something that I really enjoy. Like a bioenergy comes when you do something you really enjoy. And then I tried to escape from these big projects a few times. They always asked us back, not just me, but the typical consultants, contractors. And then two years ago I decided, okay, no more big projects. I would like to have. At that time I didn't know B Corps, but I really wanted nonprofits have nonprofits. And I migrated from water for big projects to Agile and Salesforce CRM and I drifted in companies like creative agencies as well. So I combined all of this and I created a coaching digital coaching studio which is now rebranded from last six to this side to 360 tuned. Because for a year and a half it was just me coaching, consulting for 2.0 and other nonprofits. And because 2.0 introduced us to many other nonprofits, now we are niching down with 360 tune just fine tuning social enterprises, nonprofits. And because of your health us becoming B corp, I realized they're for profit, but they like nonprofit. They have a very strong mission and that's what we do. We unish then coaching, consulting, digital transformation for small, medium, large nonprofits, social enterprises and small big corps, not corporate big corps.

Yep. So Tupato was, was your first client?

Just. Yeah. Give us an overview. Like to say what, what just make it tangible. Like what. What's the sort of projects that you've done for them and what's the impact that that's had for them? Because my understanding of what you do is we had a great example or analogy you're saying last night. Like a lot of these not for profits have got a Porsche sitting in the garage and they don't even know how to open the car, let alone turn the ignition on and make it actually really go in terms of some of their digital capability in particular. So yeah. Give us an example of the sort of things you, you've been doing for Tupatewa.

Absolutely. Tupotoa is a great example. Not Just because it's a. It turned out to be a success story. But it's a very typical situation unfortunately for nonprofits. So Salesforce gives every single nonprofit charity 10 free licenses and Salesforce is the world's best CRM system for field service. But they expanding into nonprofit as well. It's a good sales tactic. Once you give them free they want to buy 1112 which is paid but it's seriously a very good system. It's like a Porsche or a Ferrari or a Lamborghini in car analogy and because it's given free they don't have to pay for. There's no real implementation. So some partners donate and pro bono the implementation project to customize to their needs but still they don't give enough attention to the nonprofits to teach them how to use it. So Tuputo was given a Salesforce Org they've been using git just one person from YouTube typing something and they use like 37 or more spreadsheets. So you have the Porsche and you use the bicycle or bicycles And Salesforce introduced me as I've worked for four different Salesforce partners before.

To say that Laszlo, you are an independent. Would you like to have a look at. And all I just did at the first in the first month was a systematic review with my 33 questions diagnosis tool. So we went through workshop just like the B corp assessment systematically and improve it. If you say you do it okay, how do you do it? And a score of 100 turned out to be 42 which is okay for a nonprofit but if you are in the 60s, you have much more automation and much more system helping you digitally so And Fiti Semanu who's the CEO of Tukutua realized that there is work to be done. She failed it but now she had the proof she went to the board Board approved. I created a two months in two months I created an annual digital transformation roadmap Pretty much subscribed what the guests and how we feel them started replacing systems, shutting down services, shutting down subscriptions eliminated cost and systematically we started means me I started teaching the team members just the first team and then bigger and bigger and bigger had to use the Porsche. So we I, I, I drove it out from the garage.

Nice.

I told them exactly. Took them to a spin. Exactly. So they get the feeling of oh what could be done. And I'm not bragging it's just Salesforce is a good tool, Porsche is a good car. So it's just making it active alive. And then we started cleaning area by area and then extended my one month to two months to one year to second year. And in 18 months basically all the 24, 25 employees know how to use Salesforce. Every day, every hour they use it from executive assistant to navigator. And they are an internship company, non profit. So basically they like Maori and Pacific young talent in tertiary student studies. They match them to one of the 200 corporate partners for a summer three months internship aid which gives very cost efficient talent management for the corporates. They learn how to manage diversity and inclusion because Maori Pacific culture is not the west end culture. So both sides is an eye opening experience.

Usually they stay with full time employment which is very convenient for the corporate as well. And then after matching an internship there is an alumni period when we when to put our would like to look after them. So everything is now in Salesforce and all the employees use Salesforce for this customer relationship with the partners and with the Toyota with the students. So the end of this story is not really an end, just a milestone. Anne was invited to Salesforce conference in Sydney last year and she was awarded the golden hoodie which is the biggest appreciation by a licensed for profit company to the MVP's Most Valuable Players to say we did a huge transformation and connected the other nonprofits as well to use Salesforce.

Nice. So yeah, so it's all, it's all about getting some efficiencies, operational efficiencies inside by using tools effectively. I mean I guess it's, it's not just not for profits that are, that are bad of this. There's a lot, I mean there's a lot of companies, I mean I've, I've got tools and SaaS products that I've got that I know I'm not using their full potential but it's kind of, I'm using it enough to help me. I'm happy to pay the 30 bucks a month or whatever it is, it's helping me enough. But yeah there's, there's always going to be that room for improvement. But I guess the real key driver for you as you saw again saying last night is you want to make sure that every dollar that comes into a not for profit, as much of that as possible is going to the end cause or the beneficiary of the charity rather than it getting lost in the middle of operational inefficiency. Which is a really cool thing because I mean that is one of the big criticisms that's laid, you know or put against some of the really big charities is well how much Money is going in. How much is just going around internally versus actually solving the problem. So it's pretty cool. So do you. So do you measure that? Like, do you have like a way of being able to prove, like, this is the inefficiency. This is where I think you can get you to.

Yes, absolutely. So I started writing a book and I'm still writing it. I know that feeling two years later.

Only two years later. Yeah.

Because from KPMG, PwC and other IBM and other companies, I learned, or many people learned. Lean manufacturing, Agile, project management, design thinking, customer innovation, customer journeys, all of these are in the air. But if you don't use them, you actually leave the Porsche in a garage and you hop on the bike. So they lived all their life in the spreadsheet. And it didn't annoy me as much as at the beginning, but when I realized how much money and time is wasted in copying spreadsheets, emails to spreadsheets, spreadsheets to spreadsheet. And right now we are here, I'm here in Christchurch as well, for another nonprofit. Yet again, I see how many people just type copy paste. And in 2023, you cannot, you shouldn't copy paste. It's like an absolute no, no. So right now I'm at the stage that I have an impact machine. I call it impact machine. That is, with 2.0 and four or five other nonprofits, we are proving that we can streamline operation. It's about the product, the brand, the team, your customers and your assets. And yes, we are working on an impact measurement framework, which the difference could be two currently available ones in the market. They are one off in a year. They compare benchmarks with others, how good you are in getting $1 and you give 80 cent to your 20 cent to your beneficiaries. That's the percentage. Right now what we want to do is in every monthly statement, there would be a P and L how much money you made, but there would be an impact score. How many people have you impacted? And because we use customer relationship management system, we have all the profiles. What is their satisfaction level? What is their lifetime value? So we can actually calculate compared to your last year, how much more impact you are making. So I'm very optimistic. In a half a year, I think we can put it to market and this could be a standalone product with a benchmark report and with a live dashboard, whatever system you use, which is get specific weekly data, and we will give you the benchmark dashboard, sorry, the impact dashboard as a trend, how many people have you impacted in what? Estimated return on investment. So social roi return on investment would be. If you give me one more dollar, I can have five people who will be getting that benefit, who's making, you know, five people's family that much commercial, emotional and intellectual value. So it's one model used for your whole life cycle. And then to the board you can prove it very easily. Hey, we are making progress.

Yep. Which then also helps with fundraising and because yeah, increasingly it. Yeah, it seems like I've been involved with the not for profit sector over the years. It just seems incre. It seemed. Well, historically it was kind of if you knew someone at the fund and you put in the right words on the application, you'd probably get some cash. But increasingly funders, whether they are private individuals, high net worth individuals or the funds, they're like, yeah, okay, we kind of know who you are but actually we need to see some proof of the impact. So yeah, where it's, it's interesting when you compare. The for profit world is increasingly having to show its social and environmental impact. So yeah, you make a ton of money, but how are you doing it? What good are you making? Now the charities are being sort of told. It's almost like the opposite, hey, yeah, we can, we can give you some money but we want to, we want the proof on the good that you're doing. So it seems to be like all, all paths are leading to. Yeah, accountability, transparency, prove that you're, that you're doing some good otherwise you're not going to get our support. So.

Exactly. And that's why, that's why we doubled down. We started small businesses for profit, small businesses and NGOs. Then we realized more businesses can't afford that digital transformation so we just sticking to nonprofits. But then I realized B Corps who are for profit actually with a very good strong constitution for an impact and impact measurement because of your certification help and, and the B Corp B learn. There's a very good overlap in a B corp with a social enterprise and a non profit because the for profit world is getting softer with the hard values being complemented by soft values and the software use in the NGO needs to be supported by hard values. So in the middle there is pretty much just a B Corp and a social enterprise, the for profit for purpose, which is the ideal organization in my mind. So if you are not a B Corp, please, whoever listens, please consider just asking what the benefits and what the short term and long term benefits. There's a, there's heaps of Brand value. And if you are a non profit, please consider proving your results financially because your fundraising will be half as hard.

Yeah, totally. Yeah. So back in. It was just before the pandemic, I did a contract with Kilmatic Enterprises. So I worked for them for 12 months partly. So Michelle Sharp, who's their CEO, absolute legend, she's now the CEO of UNICEF New Zealand. Yes. She had just had a really cool story about. She showed. So Kilmarnock in New Zealand they used to make the Anzac poppies and that was their one big piece of revenue and it went out for tender and they lost it. The, the, the RSA Return Servicemen association took it offshore to a Chinese company. So literally what Kilmart were doing, we're putting the, getting the green stem and putting the, the red poppy on it and then connecting the black little center parts to connect it together. That was what they were doing. So Kilmanic provides meaningful education and employment opportunities for people with intellectual disabilities. So it was a really easy job that people could do, but it was valuable and there's a sense of meaning because, hey, we're making poppies for veterans, you know, so that's really good. And they lost that contract. And Michelle, I think at the time, actually she was the business development manager and the board were kind of like, okay, we're not really sure what's going to happen here because we, we don't have any funding now to support the people that we have in here doing, doing some work and what have you. And she, she put her hat into the ring to become CEO and, and basically said, look, I, I think we need to transition and transform how this entity operates and I think we need to think more like a business and less like a charity. And she had a really cool graph that showed Kilmarnock's revenue as it sort of was dwindling down over the years. And then it just dropped like nothing.

Yes. With.

On the, with on the same. Well, tracking beneath it the impact that they were making, which they measure in terms of like, how many people have we got in, how many people are we transitioning out into mainstream employment, what have you. And then she shows the inflection point when they actually started trading like a business and they went out and they got contracts with Air New Zealand. So they used to refurbish all the headsets for Air New Zealand and they had a job through Fonterra where they were packing little milk cartons like the little one like you get in hotels. They were putting them in boxes. They do the Pams herbs and spices. So they take the raw herbs and spices, put them in the little sachets packets and so they were getting these as commercial contracts at commercial rates to do the job. And she just shows you the inflection point of as the revenue started going up, so did the impact. And I think there's a lot. I have some challenges with the, with the not for profit sector because I think there is a lot of codependency mindset. So I need this people to be disadvantaged so that I can feel good about solving their problem. And actually there is like you say there's no, none of that corporate rigor around measurement, reporting, finances like you say you put two together. And I do feel that the, that we will lose charities as we get businesses that come in to solve those social and environmental problems. That the charity and the ultimate melting point. And this is where I think Michelle was the. She was the best person I've ever, best manager or leader I've ever worked under because she, she had the heart of the charity but she had the mindset of the, of the CEO. And you put those two together and kill mark is to this day is the best example of a genuine social enterprise where they trade for revenue and they do only do good with the revenue that they get.

And it's like yeah, perfect. So you pretty much, you pretty much summarized our business model. This is you as a charity, as a non profit, as even a for profit like funded, you know, externally funded or not market funded organization, let's call it that way. And all we do is wrap professional skills, skill set, mindset and tool set around you. So all we do as a digital coaching studio we teach you to be industry grade as good as a for profit. So your heart is still nonprofit and charity and you go driven and purpose driven. But we give you the benefit of accelerating with digital which just makes sense in 2023 you shouldn't copy paste between spreadsheets.

Yeah. So what would be the top three is like yeah, the top three things that the charities or not for profits or B corps are doing badly. What is there like three things that you can just go. Yeah, don't have a look at these three things.

Yeah. Top challenges would be underutilized systems. That's what my Troy on horse really I do a technical discovery and I can spot like you have been paying these licenses but you're not using them. Do you really need them? So we shut down. That's an immediate cash flow saving. The second one is operational efficiency. They don't Know what processes are important. So they do everything and they keep changing the plan weekly. So you just map out the processes into a catalog, draw it up and say look, this is how we understand you operate. And they say oh really? I haven't noticed. It's been organically growing into. I call it spaghetti or a bush. You know, a bush is unstructured, a tree is structured. Spaghetti is unstructured. Pizza is structured. So what we. The third challenge is actually the mindset that there is no homogeneous culture. Everyone believes they helping but their own way. So what we solve is from pizza. Sorry if spaghetti is very nasty to eat, very hard to pull out. Was doing what we do actually solve the first problem with simplifying standardizing the systems which is the pizza base. We accept and catalog the processes put on that the mushroom, the olive and everything as optional extras. What you need to do just do that.

Definitely no olive snakes. No olives.

No olives.

No pineapple. Yeah.

Anchovies.

Oh, definitely not. I know. No.

And then we systematically teach the people with our 360 tuned Academy online trainings and in person and coaching to create a homogeneous culture which is fit for purpose and fit for performance. Which is the cheese on the top. So imagine a beautiful pizza that your favorite it you can get a slice very easily. Like a charity can do something very well if they have a good base systems, optional toppings. Yeah. Which armed as what product. And then the culture is very professional. But it means they cannot lose their heart. So we try to keep that motivation so it's not too too much results and dashboards oriented blue and everything is profit. But they have to learn how to operate actually sustainably, financially as well.

Nice pizzas and Lamborghinis. I'm liking your company.

You see.

Can I come to your first annual team party Because I'm expecting lambos and Lambos and pizza.

Yes. So you will get the pizza. And you are one of the first VIP guests. And I'm serious, it's not just because you prompted but I think you contributed so much to our little shop. That is not shop. It's actually a coaching studio. So we use our creativity. The word using studio is we create so you can perform. So we. We just use our creativity and our experience for profit experience. So you can do what you love doing anyway. So do it. So do good. Well, you are the well part.

Nice. I love it. You got. You got a really good. Yeah. I think you can see you've been really working on the language around and the analogies. It's it's really good, man. It's really good.

Thinking. We. We first met on a. On a coaching program where we were looking to get some coaching on our marketing and. Yeah, how do we. How do we create? You know, I mean, I've been in. I'm a slower learner because you. You. You were on the program whilst you were building your business. I was like six years into my business still trying to nail who am I, what do I. How do we sell stuff and how do we market stuff and how do we create a program. But, yeah, we met on doing that, didn't we? So it's great to see, like, you've implemented a bunch of that learning.

Yes. So that's one more thing. Education. My mom was actually right. So if she's listening, she can't speak English, but I will translate to her.

Hey, well, maybe you could. I don't know that we have any listeners in Hungary, so. Yeah, maybe you could translate this episode.

Yes.

And we can get our first listener, Renee, in Hungary. That'd be pretty legit.

Okay, so that's my commitment to. To give the Hungarian version of your voice. I will ask someone to speak for you.

Hungarian.

Right.

That would be the first ever. Exactly. Because that's diversity and inclusion technology will give you. And that's the proof point. Tim, what we are doing is content. Content can shift the mindset. Skill set can come after very quickly. You just learn a skill and toolset is given. Like we are cross borders.

Yeah. It's interesting because I just recorded a podcast earlier on today with Elena Keith from Seven. They're a branding marketing agency in Auckland. And her whole push is. Is inclusivity. And she. She ended up becoming deaf in her school years and then. And then lost the hearing and just the sense of wanting to include people. And I talked. Did I talk about Kill Monocle? No, I don't think I did. But Kilmarnock is very much the same. It's like.

Everyone can have a go. It's just that sometimes people need to be given a different way to do it to still achieve the same outcome. And that's okay. Just because it's been standardized around doing it this way doesn't mean that actually that's the best way for everyone.

Yes. So we are a learning organization, teaching others to fish instead of fish for them.

Yeah. Yeah.

Another analogy, hopefully from Italy. But the point is. And good. Good cheese needs years and good wine needs years just to continue.

Cheese, wine, pizza, lambos.

Yes. And we are building the colossal. So not for Gladiators but for tourists. But the point is everything is given. Team, whoever is listening, don't worry, everything is given. Information, money, people, network, everything is given. The one thing is missing is the leadership to step out from your comfort Z and learn something new. And if you reach out to Tim or to the B Corp community in New Zealand or worldwide or any social enterprise nonprofit community or our 360 tune community, we are very happy to have, we actually have a free community based on the net on the coaching framework. We both learn. So there's a free one. We give away a lot of content, a lot of knowledge. And there is a paid community where you can be a subscriber as well for low cost. And then obviously there is the paid services, implementation projects, programs and one on one coaching that has to be paid on market price. Although we try to be very efficient. But there is always a free entry like the free meal model is available for many, many companies and organizations.

Yeah, but I mean it looks pretty clear that you know a dollar spent with you is going to give a big return on investment.

And you want to ask how much? Yeah, I have the number.

Let's go.

2.78. Yeah, 2.78. We calculated $1 spent with us resulted in 2.78 and one person who we trained became 2%. So we increased. And it's not bragging is the numbers. We have the proof you are, that.

You are a data driven guide. So.

Yeah, yeah, and I like measuring but the point is we improve profit productivity with 92 or 94%. Let us go for 92. Which means.

The case study is soon released by CSO. Hopefully we can say that.

There is proof that digital transformation can help any organization and you will get your time back and you get your money back and more.

Nice. And it's, it's a compounding gift as well because it's, it's not just you've, you've done that in the, in time that you're on the engagement. But it's like, like you say you now understand the principles of it. This is now for the future of your entity, you know how to be more efficient. So it's, it's, it's a scalable return on investment.

It's not, it's a compounding. Funny, I think we are inventing something here is not compounding interest but compounding impact.

Because if you do a transformation on the first year.

Then the second year could be leveraging optimization. The third year is actually purely leverage. It's a slowing curve. And then if you diversify, you do it again. Yet again, yet again. And then this compounding impact is going to help year to year. So I'm calculating a three to five years return on investment. It was like six months because we already worked. But you still can use the benefits for three to six years. Whatever we implement, infrastructure should be good to go for three to five years.

Nice. Love it. Compounding impact. You heard it here first ladies and gentlemen. We should trademark. I was about to ask but it's all yours. But yeah, we'll. Yeah, no that's super cool. Yeah, it's. Yeah it's so massively needed. How, how are you finding. Yeah, clearly it sounds like you're scaling and you're building a team and you're going crazy but yeah, sometimes it feels in again in that not for profit world which I have been a part of. So I can say this with love and grace and humility and concern and just a desire for you all to do better. Sometimes they can be a little bit skeptical of consultants or the for profit world. Oh you're just going to come in here, you're just going to rip us off a load of money. Yeah. How do you find those? I mean clearly you're getting some good referrals but yeah, in general people are happy to have a chat or.

Yes, it's a very good question because I try to. So although I learned on how to scale digital marketing and do your nurture group and you know your hand raising post and everything, I haven't done anything in the two years because I was so busy doing with Tupator what we did and then to put to and Salesforce and then the next companies introduced us to the next next companies and organizations. So so far it's been organic and I came to the conclusion that I would like to keep organic. So B2B B2O will be organic where I would like to advertise and give, you know, build a brand. The content is the giveaways. So scale on content because it's low cost for us and it will help more people. And I didn't tell you because you didn't ask because it wasn't on anything prepared. But the big mission I'm chasing is I'm 50 by the time I'm 60 so 10 good years. I would like to help 1 million people to become social entrepreneurs and when I decided two years ago or three years ago it was like a very distant future. But the more introductions we get because it's not just who we have but who they have as well, the indirect impact and calculating. So to put a 1500 alumni, you know, 20 staff, 25 staff, 200 partners. That easily can go up to a few thousand. Who we help can help others. So we're just an accelerator, really, in that game. And 1 million is just a number. The sooner we reach it, the more people can benefit. And imagine that compounding impact team, if 1 million people know about B Corp, about this impact machine, that will just create more. So more impact. And the big picture is better people will make a better planet. So all we need to do is just education for the people to know what they're missing so they take actions for a better planet. You can't save the planet on your own, but you can teach people to actually be responsible.

That the. Yeah, that's super cool. And the teaching thing from your mom has clearly really sat with you.

Thank you.

Yes.

I'm still angry.

I've still got it, Mom. I've still got it. I know it's all about teaching, but I think. I think what you're doing is, yeah, so needed and. Yeah, no, that's typical. I have no doubt that you will achieve your. Your goal, as I know that you're. You're a driven guy and you. You generally care. You know, you're not.

Yeah, I think. I think we're at this interesting tipping point in the world of business for good, where it's almost.

Not the volume of the Wild west, but there's a little bit of like, oh, there's opportunity here. Let's. Yes, let's pivot and let's try and, yes, you know, access this market. But I think, yeah, with you, there's just a genuineness. There's an authenticity to that. No, actually, like, I really just want to help, not for profits, because of, you know, again, talking to. Talking to Elena, just on the. On the previous podcast, you know, you look at. Again, I should have. Should have fact checked. It's either Aristotle or Socrates. I think it might be Socrates. He said, you know, the intersection of where your genius meets a human need, therein you will find your purpose. And the meaning of genius isn't a really clever person. That is one meaning of genius. But the original root word in Latin of genius actually means your spirit or your kind of, like, innate skills and talents. And I think you're. You're a perfect example of that kind of corporate refugee bit like myself, who you had some skills. You were using them to help probably really successful people get even more successful, you know, and you're kind of Squeezing the lemon at Fonterra to help them sell slightly more milk than they sold last year. Great. But, you know, so what does the world really need, you know, more milk exported from New Zealand? I don't know. Possibly. Yeah. And so you've taken your skill set and you. And you've got that genuine. Like, I actually want to see these organizations thrive. So.

Yes. And I can, I, I can add to that. That was the squeezing the lemon and squeezing the milk. I think there was a life cycle in my contracting life that Fonterra had. New financial year 1st of August, we really wanted to visit grandparents. So we, I booked that for a year and in advance to visit our family in Hungary in June or July. And there was always a burning point for me as well. Like, are we doing the right thing? Yes, we are solving problems, but are we solving the real problems?

Yeah.

And after a few cycle, I got to the point when I wanted to transform myself. So I went into different philosophies. Japanese, Asian.

Latin American. All the things they've been doing for thousands of years now. Why do they do for thousands of years? Because they are evergreen. So you just go back and Ikigai helped me a lot. What do I love doing? Communicating, helping people. That's what I feel. It's authentic. What I'm good at, I think is connecting, communicating, problem solving. Still learning, but I feel okay about it. What can I get be paid for? Yes. Consulting, coaching and what the world needs. I believe right now the world needs great social enterprises. So we are not going to stop until we get a million. And someone just asked, why do you wait for 10 years? And I'm saying, I'm not waiting. I'm eager to get it done sooner. So please come on board. Because then 1 million becomes 10 million. It's very easy. You just add a zero and you just speed it and further. And it's not a lonely journey. It's. I'm looking at you, I'm looking at everyone who would like to be in that paka. Like Tokuto would say, for the board. And the board needs direction. I think it's a good direction, it's worth it. But we need more people thinking like you, connecting, even in a pizzeria, like, I ate a pizza yesterday and you connected three people and you sent the email, which I thank you on that evening. So by the time I arrived home, you connected to four people. This is genuinely like community driven and this is how we can grow to a million. And who knows, maybe 10 million.

But yeah, start with A number in mind and then I think go from there. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, you either get there quick, quicker than you thought, or not.

Yeah, but it's something absolutely. So we are very happy to be a B Corp. I think that opened another door for us to grow. And it's not just social enterprise and ngo, but all the B Corps who have been in your certification program. I think if they, if there's any productivity they want to gain, they could reach out to us, to other like minded people. Because digital is definitely an unfair advantage everyone is taking using it.

Yeah. And like I say that if you're using it in a business as a force for good, you're, you're just. What was that compounding impact? That was it. You're just going to compound impact. Yeah. Rather than. Yeah. Just productivity for the sake of productivity. So when did you first hear about B Corp?

Yeah, so I knew about it in general, but not about you.

Yeah, I was gonna say before that actually. Now that you are B Corp, have you.

Yeah.

When you're talking to the engine. Because I just wonder, that possibly gives you an edge, another edge of authenticity to say, yes, we are for profit because, because there is this real tension between for profit, like in, in general working. When I've worked in charities, the for profit world kind of looks at the charity. Little pat on the head. Odd. Look at you all nice and cuddly doing your little thing. But yeah, you don't really understand business. But you know, with Michelle at Kilmartic, she, she understood business better than most of the business people and she'd run rings around it. And so there's quite often, yeah, this little bit of skepticism and the charity going, oh yeah, you're just big business come to try and rip us off or you want to, you want to, you want to turn up, get the photo so that you can say, look at us, we've just done something for charity. So has the B Corp helped you? Do you feel yeah yet, or is that maybe still to come to help with that level of trust and connected?

Yes. So absolutely. I didn't see it as a strategic advantage in my Boston consulting group, you know, this is the product and the brand that will be not a dog, but the star. So I do it for the benefit of marketing. But when I met you, I knew about B Corp and it was always kind of very, very exciting for me to have a framework. I'm a framework guy. I like frameworks and principles that, that will help all the time. So when we, we drifted in that Community and I met you, it became immediately actionable. Not just an idea of many things. As a startup owner, hey, what do I do? But actually I need to get in to help me. And yes, we did a few slowdown because of my workload, but it was always kind of strategic importance to prove that we are serious about our commitments. And right now, if anyone goes to360tune.com the homepage says we are a B Corp helping 1 million people among social enterprises, B Corps and NGOs.

Don't know how I finished it because I keep changing it, optimizing it. But the point is we want to prove that we are serious about it. And the point is when I started doing 160 plus questions, I realized like this is a strategic framework. If I just implement this in my company, I'm not just B Corp, but a very damn good company. Because everything, your commitments, your constitution, your social norm, your standards, your policies, everything is, is actually very good. It makes sense. I wish everyone would adopt this. B Corp is just a very good framework to be true to your goals, to your passion and your purpose.

Nice 100. Yeah, it's, it's the, it's the melding of the two. It's the, and that's why, yeah I'm, I'm, I'm a big believer in the whole purpose side of it and, and using, you know, B Corp in and of itself can be just a fairly boring structured framework that's quite dry and tick boxy. And it's like as long as we meet these criteria, we're, we're a good business. But it's taking that kind of spiritual, metaphysical.

You know. Yeah, yeah. And mixing it with the rational, the logical, the, the framework. And I think, yeah, you're, you're just. So many of our clients are, are these great examples where you have this true sense of desire to do good and you're just, and, and you've got that awareness, that consciousness, that, that purpose. And you're using the framework to capture that and put it. And that's really where the magic happens. Because if you're just purpose without guidance, are you being, it's similar to what you're helping people. Like you're, you're probably being effective, but not as effective as you could be. And then if you're just logic and reason without the underlying purpose and desire and the meaning and the, and the consciousness, then it's devalued. And so yeah, pulling the two together, yeah, super important.

And so yeah, the B Corp journey, how was that? Anything exciting, interesting, challenging, good, bad, ugly. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah. So it took me 18 months. And I'm saying it took me because you were always available. Like, like, what's happening? Where have I disappeared? And I. I was just busy at that time. We just had one full time employee or one full time person helping us. So I was busy with delivering the promise to Tokuto and the others. So with the first run through, I think I was part of one of your cohorts with three others. And you used my example to go through and the others did their own checkpoints. So it was overwhelming because I didn't know how many things I would need to prove or even how many options we have. It was like not a car driving test, but like a Salesforce certification test. It felt like really overwhelming. I felt like, oh my God, I had to do it with iq. I would just systematically check the first one and not even read the question and the answer just to get through somehow. It's like, holy cow. And then I think when you, when you showed me that, yeah, I got this. And we are a small company, we don't have a big workforce, but we have customers. So let's check that out. Let's check that in rather strategic proof points, what we actually can stand by and prove. Then it was like a relief. I felt like, okay, there's a way out from this misery.

Not talking about you, about the situation because it's like an audit checklist. It's dry as hell, but. But the point is it has to be proven. So it's systematic. It. It checks everything in the five areas. Then I disappeared for delivery, then came back, we need this. We need this. Can you help me? So we did another round. Then I asked someone to do templates, which you guys gave me, and gave us some help, some accelerator. So we did our documents and then again disappeared. And to be honest, the submission was a bit shaky. Like I thought we would lose quite a few, like 20 points, but we just lost like five to 10 and we, you know, ended on the 90s. And the audit was very pleasant. A person from Belab was very caring and one very curious. And when I started showing screenshots and sharing my screen, he actually got, oh, you do it. Really? That's super cool. It's like he got excited about our business as an auditor, you know, who's just here to check boxes. Because hopefully he got the excitement and the energy that this is feasible. It's just technology.

And then nothing for a few weeks. And then I thought, okay, now they will come back with even more questions. Just six, seven questions. And then I uploaded even more documents, screenshots and then nothing. I thought another 20 questions and they sent the invoice. It's like oh is that.

Was really. Yeah. Because at the end I think it was not just worthwhile but a good experience. Yeah, I wouldn't do it on my own definitely.

Maybe you should talk to B Lab. You know they are a not for profit organization. Maybe they need some operational efficiency. Yeah, I mean they do. I mean I'd suggest they probably do because they are trying to scale. You know interest in the movement is only increasing and they run on a, you know, a tight budget. So yeah. Yes if anyone from B Lab's listening in 0800 LASZLO 360 tune.

And yes if you know anyone at UNICEF, maybe the CE they might some of efficiencies, I don't know.

I know well, I've got a friend, well Safe, who I introduced you to on email last night. He's working on a contract with unicef. So there you go. Safe might be listening. I get a suspicion that he might listen to podcast. So hey Safe, if you are hopefully. Well you guys have connected on email already so yeah, you'll know that. Gonna have a digital coffee together.

Super cool. So yes, what, what does being a B corp mean to you now? Now that you've got it?

Yeah. Gives us the confidence that we have proven so we have an offer like this is our not offer promise. We can prove a promise that we are worthy being considered as the coach. They don't want to go there. Yes, I'm, I'm a for profit but I'm. My full heart is for non profits. It's like how do you like you know a doctor interested in selling pills or you're a doctor interested in my hat. So I'm interested in their health. That's a proof point. On the other side I think this is just the start of the journey. So we would like to have B corpse as well with the assistance. So for me it's not just the marketing list but actually a like minded community. If we can exchange help support we might do it for free or might do it on a very low, you know, cost rate or some minimum profit so we can reinvest. Just a starting point and I'm thinking about how can we build a social enterprise alliance. Like a charity would be getting donations by professionals who are on the on the verge of burning out. Like they work in a bank. They don't want to leave Their.

Very nice salary but they want to help. So all that fractional time could be reinvested into a network organization which would just graciously receive all these pro bono hours and redirect it so we can be a catalyst. So P Corp is helping to be, to be relevant and it gives me ideas what else is possible.

Nice. Super cool. And so what do you think the future holds for the B Corp movement? Looking into the future?

Yes. I hope you guys certify more and we will be bigger. I am thinking actually about the Org like what I mentioned. So it would be good to certify organizations on the impact catalyst or impact machine or the impact compounding impact so they can stay efficient not just become certified and then but actually stayed there. And I hope that your big beyond big or community would recognize that they don't just certify and hope in three years that they will be recertified again but keep being certified. And that needs systems, processes, needs coaching, guidance from you and like minded people. So I think the, the future is bright but it's busy so we need to get work.

Yeah. And what's, what's new and exciting for 360 tune like you're scaling, you're entering Aussie. Are you looking at the us, uk global, maybe Hungary. Are you looking to get back to the, to the motherland? Yeah. What's it, what do you reckon?

Yeah. So my mom keeps asking still after 15 years in New Zealand when are you coming home? And I'm saying soon so not soon enough unfortunately. So it's not Italy or Spain or Hungary will be the next market. What I, what I believe is in the cherry tree charity tree syndrome. So let's just win Auckland and be the best in Auckland. Let's just be the best on north island. Let's just be the best in Christchurch, prove ourselves and let's just go to Australia next door. And who knows if we can be strong in Australia. Maybe Singapore is next door. If Singapore then South Korea, South Korea, Japan, Japan to Canada, Canada to us. You know the drift.

Yeah.

And that's on the homepage I realized for the Pacific Rim that's this is I finished on the website. So I think it's just step to step to step, organic and guided but not forced. So if there's a neighboring market where we can extend and help just, just stay still. I mean just stay stable in the first market. Win that, keep that and quality first. Not trying to expand to the US or Europe. I think until we really learn the craft because like you can create. Some people make violins which cost three. $3,500,000. That's the craftsmanship that would be great to infuse into nonprofits.

Yep. Nice. Super cool, man. It's super exciting. I feel like. Yeah, you're just. You're obviously a way quicker learner than me because you're, you're exp. At the same time that I am because, yeah, we're, you know, we, we struggled to get business in Aussie for years and then suddenly this year we've got a bunch of Aussie clients and yeah, we're making a big push into. Well, we're. I'm keen to push into North America, so.

Nice.

Particularly, I've got a couple of connections in, in Arizona. So if there's anyone tuning in in the US who's got anyone in sort of the Phoenix area who's interested in B Corp, do let me know because I'm scheming on. Don't tell my wife, but I've got a mate of mine who is a skier mate of mine and he's going to Phoenix in February. And I was like, I'd really like to go skiing with you in Phoenix in February. And I was like, if I can find a couple of clients based in Phoenix to maybe go and do some B Corp fun with, I could probably afford to come skiing with you. So, yeah, that's what I'm. It's all about. All about fitting. Fitting work around my skiing addiction is what I've decided. So, yeah, so that's the plan. But no, it's super cool, man. Yeah, you're clearly a much quicker learner than me because you're like two years in and you're where I am after eight years. So. Yeah, that's why you worked at PwC and KPMG. So you're clearly a smart, smart operator.

No, I. I think I just would like to ask what your mom told you to do when you were 9.

Oh, man.

Maybe that's great.

Well, it's ironic actually, because my, my mum, I think she still wants me to be a teacher in a school, like in her mind. So I went to a private school in the uk, so, you know, posh school. In her mind. I think she would like me to be the headmaster of a good school.

But I've mentioned it to her once when she said that to me, said, but I am a teacher. I'm just doing it in a different way.

Yes.

It's not, it's not a classroom full of kids, it's one on one. Coaching consulting or group coaching. Code training. Consulting with. With people in business. So, you know, maybe I have fulfilled the destiny that she'd prefer for me, but. Yeah.

Nice. That's good. I hope we catch up another time.

It seems like you're in Christchurch quite a lot, so. Spare room. Feel free if you want to. You know, we can.

Thank you.

We should go and hire. Hire a Lambo for a couple of days and just go and eat pizza, drink beer.

We need to earn that.

Maybe. Maybe I should reach out to Lamborghini and see if they want to be a B corp and then I'll do it in exchange. No, I'll even take a secondhand one. You know, I'm not being pushy, but I will happy to do a contra. You give me a Lambo. I feel I. You know, I feel like I need to be a bit of a B Corp influencer. So, you know, if I could get a B Corp branded Lambo. If anyone from Lambo is listening. I mean, to be honest, I'd take a ikea, you know, just give me whatever you got, you know.

Look, it's been really good, yeah, seeing you the last couple of days.

Again, you know, like so many of the people that we're working with. Genuinely love what you're doing. It's really needed. You're creating genuine change and impact. It's only going to get better. It's going to be compounding impact all round. So, yeah, thank you for what you're doing, mate, and just keep on keeping on. Love it.

Yeah, thank you so much for the time today and all the time you invested with us. Hopefully we can combine it.

It's all good, mate. It's all good. Safe travels back home to the family tonight in Auckland, man. And yeah, let me know when you're back down.

Cool, thanks.

See you, mate.

Hey, it's Tim here, that bigot bloke from Grow Good. If you want more content on purpose, B Corp, how to do more good in the world as an individual or a business, then you know the drill, hit the like and subscribe. Check out some of our other videos. They're probably floating around here somewhere. You know how it works. Thank you so much. See you next time.