BONUS CONTENT - B Better Purpose Virtual Summit Day 2 - B Corp Panel

So we will bring in. We've got Jasmine from the Co op Bank based here in New Zealand. We've got Joanie calling in from the west coast of the US and we have Serena calling in from the east coast of the US in Florida. And we're waiting for Dave Rouse from Carbon Click. He's, he's our token mail panelist over the two days and he, he's failed to deliver so far. What's going on? He's obviously busy saving the planet, but that's cool. So, yeah, hello amazing humans of our panel. So I guess we've got a bit of a spectrum here. So Serena, you've been a B corp for quite a while and you, I guess you're a bit similar to Grow Good. You've been a bit of a pioneer in that southeast U.S. area trying to gee up the movement and get people motivated. Jasmine Co Op bank certified, was it maybe is it two years ago now? About 18 months ago, give or take. And Joanie, we're just working, we've just finished helping Joanie go through the assessment. So we've got, I think a really good balance of who's who. So I don't know, maybe let's go with Serena first as sort of the.

The, the, yeah, the, the original B corp of the group here. So when did you certify and, and why did you certify? Back in the day before it was like, cool.

It's so funny. You make it sound like it was so long ago. It really wasn't. It was six years ago. I'm up for my third, third certification this year.

Nice.

I want to, every time though, I just want to keep getting higher and higher and higher. So we'll see what we can do this year. Why did I first certify?

I left the corporate world where I was shackled to cubicle for 13 years conning people in the things they don't need and that create a terrible impact on the planet. So when I went out on my own, I, I thought that is not what I want to do. I want to work with companies that are creating a positive ripple effect. And I was introduced to beat work. I want to say that it was a yoga instructor that was like, oh, have you heard of this? I'm like, nope.

And I just fell in love. I was like, I've got to go, man. Jerry's and all of these great missions that they had and that's who I want to work with. I want to use my talents in graphic design and branding and creating these brands. For a purpose, for a reason. Not to con people into buying stuff that they don't need, but into creating this positive ripple effect. So I thought, well, the way to do that is to be in integrity with that mission and become a B corp myself. So that's why I became a B corp. That's who I wanted to work with. That's who I wanted to emulate. That is the club that I wanted to join. So here I am for my third time up, still wanting to be part of the club and trying to outdo myself every time. The good thing about doing this for so long is that you learn going through the BIA and then putting all these things to work. I could do more, I could do more, I could do more. I'm looking at this, I'm looking at that, and it's just an awesome way to do business. And I never want to go back to being, you know, shackled in a cubicle doing things that don't value. So this is the way forward for me.

What a crazy idea. And the fact that marketing people maybe convince us to buy stuff we don't need. What? Like.

So Dave's joined us. Kia ora, Dave.

Kia ora. Good morning.

How are we all?

How's it going? Yeah, man, we're doing good. We're doing good. Thank you for, for joining us. So we just kicked off, so we're just saying Serena, she's like the original B corp. On the call from way back in 2016 about similar time when I certified. So I think, yeah, I'm on my. I don't know, whatever it is recertification I'm currently going through. Currently. Yeah, it's trying to keep up with that. I think it's number three. Yeah, it must be. Yeah. Be similar. Similar to you. Maybe we'll go to Jasmine next and then Joni, then Dave. So Jasmine. Yeah, you. You guys certified it? Yeah, about 18 months, two years ago. So, yeah, talk us through about, like, why. Why did a bank and you were the first bank in New Zealand to certify, so kudos to you as well. I'm just talking through, like, what. What was that all about?

Why B Corp. Yeah, thanks, Tim. I think for us, not only are we a bank, but we're a relatively small player in the industry. And for those of you who aren't familiar with our sort of structure and things like that, we're a cooperative owned by our customers. And so purpose and people is at the heart of how we do business every day anyway. And I think we started out Probably a small journey, wanting to strengthen our environmental impact and start to do some things in that space. And we had probably from the early stages, let's say sort of like 2015, a goal that that would grow and be better over time. So we nailed the systems and things like that, and then we're kind of like, okay, what next? And I think, you know, my GM, Sarah, came across BCorp probably not that long after that. And it was sort of always in the back of our minds as something that maybe would be really great for us to consider.

Then it got to the point where because we are a little player, but we really were passionate about doing something great in the space and aligning it to who we are, we started to really strongly consider B Corp. And why it was important for us or why we really loved the framework is it looked at the whole business and it was not just about this one little bucket of how do you do good here. It's like, well, actually across everything that you do, how do you stack up and how do you continue to improve in that space? So I guess that would be the one thing that attracted us to the certification. And the framework was a mechanism for us to be able to do that, know how we were doing, but to continually improve and also partner with others in the community who are doing really good business and who would be on the journey with us. So, yeah, we're second year certification, as Tim said, really sort of in the thick of that journey of embedding some of our improvement opportunities and looking at other opportunities that we want continue to strengthen. And I suppose I'll be knocking on Tim's door probably early next year to think about our recertification strategy.

Yeah. But really excited to be here and talk more about how important this is.

It's that that moment of panic when you realize a recertification is looming, that Serena will be all too aware. But.

That'S cool. And I 100% agree with your sentiments. And this is why I. I kind of fell in love with B Corp. I call it almost like the Google of assessment assessments because it covers so much. You can't be doing good on one area. You've got to be doing well across, you know, either exceptionally well on two of the sections or generally well across all five. And that sorts out the sort of the bees from the wannabes. So, Joni, we've just finished helping you go through the assessment. Did it meet your expectations? Yeah. Was it?

Well, let me tell you a little bit about us first and why we're going through the process. So I have a PR and marketing firm here in Seattle. We do work across the states, but many of our clients were either B Corp or we have a biodynamic winery. We have an organization called City Forest Credits that does carbon credits for city forests. And we're doing all this work already. And we've always been a very thoughtful, sustainably minded company. I'm like, why are we not doing this? So it's just time. And, you know, like Jasmine said, there's so many things that you think you want to do it and you want to do it and you just put it off and it's. It's in the background and now it's in the forefront. And I have to say that the process with Tim and Beth has been terrific. One of the reasons why I brought them on was because I need to run my business.

And I want this process to be as efficient as possible. And they just help me do that. They're limiting the time that I'm going to have to spend getting certified. So we went through, literally segment or pillar to pillar. It's like, oh, you're doing really well here, but here's something else for you to think about. Okay, into community. Okay, you've got this nailed. And then, you know, in areas where we needed help were like, certain forms. Because we are a small company, they were able to provide and that we can incorporate those into our existing documentations for, say, employees, for instance. It's not something that I'm going to have to go recreate the wheel. So it's just been such a great process. We're still in the process, but instead of it saying taking three months or six months, it's going to take me like a month to get through at least just the initial work that we have to do, which is phenomenal.

Nice. That's what we're trying to do.

So excited and work with, which is a huge bonus. I mean, you always want to work with people that you know, people that align with your values, but on top of that, to have a little fun doing it, which is a huge bonus.

The B Corp assessment can be quite dry.

It's basically like an online questionnaire. So, yeah, you have to smatter in some dad jokes and. And bad puns and generally try and g up teams while you're going through absolute.

Thank you. I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful. So to be on the panel today.

Thank you for wanting to be a B Corp. That's more important. So, Dave Carbon. Click. What do you do Briefly. And yeah, like with a name like Carbon Click, it sounds like you probably should be a B Corp. So tell us about that.

Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean I've, I've been. Before B Corp existed, I've always been passionate about triple bottom line accounting and, but there was, there were very few rules to follow back then, very few structures to help. So it was, it was very, you know, on the fly kind of addressing issues as you saw them arise and then carrying them to the next business and so on. But Carbon Click is a platform to make climate action simple.

Oh, we've lost you. He's Carbon clicked and disappeared.

It's because he's. Dave's clearly working from home in some beautiful remote location with dodgy Internet joy of the virtual. Yeah, yeah. So maybe we'll, we'll come back to Dave maybe in a minute. I'll see if I can. If I remove him from the stream, maybe that will. There we go. I know he's back.

I'm not sure.

There we go. You're back because you're in such a beautiful remote location by the beach, clearly with some.

So sorry. Yeah, Carbon Click is about making is where we got to.

Oh no, we've lost them again.

Oh no.

All right.

This is being.

I know, it's like I want to know what Carbon Click does now. I kind of know what they do. Yeah. All right, we'll kick him out, bring him back in again in a minute. All right, so while we're waiting for Dave to put 50 cents in the meter and get his Internet working. Oh no, is he back now? Should we try third time lucky? Here we go.

Yeah, sorry, I, I'm not sure what's happening out here. Bloody, bloody beach.

So, so third time lucky. Carbon Click is a platform for making climate action simple. Effectively. It came out of the airlines yarn and co founders worked for an international airline based here in New Zealand and, and really learned how not to build or how to do more with a carbon offsetting platform. And they thought it was, you know, by having an engaging, simple click process at the point of sale on E Commerce. That was the start of a journey that you could then develop your audience with and, and grow them into your sustainability journey. So for me it was an easy way to, to take that climate action and take it far and wide really easily. Naturally, B Corp from an environmental perspective gave us some ambitious challenges to look at what we were doing in our own business, ways that we could amplify this even further, but also on the, on the social aspect as well. Just making sure that we are, you know, the best employers that we can be, the best community, community participants that we can be.

So that we can all live in a better, better world tomorrow.

Crazy idea. It might catch on.

Yeah. I mean, it's. I think there was a CEO I saw in the UK of a slightly different business, yours, Dave, but they're kind of involved in carbon offsetting. And one of their comments when I saw that they'd certified was it was getting embarrassing in the fact that we weren't a B corp in their industry. And I just thought, I love that, seeing that from a CEO of a company saying, actually we're embarrassed. It's taken us this long to put on a B Corp. I think, Dave, you were probably right on time. You were sort of pretty, you know, not too early in the piece, not too late in the piece. It's like the Goldilocks timing for, for. When do you take B Corp? But Serena, what are you seeing in terms of, from a market? And we'll go to maybe Serena and Joni for this kind of initial part of the question, like, what pressures are you seeing from a marketing perspective, from industry sectors in terms of, like, who should be really looking at B Corp right now?

Absolutely. And it's so funny that you brought that up because I saw that same thing about the embarrassment. And I had actually had a conversation with two other offsetting companies who DM'd me and tried to sell me because I am a B corp on there. And the first thing I asked is, are you a B Corp? And of course, the answer was no. One of them said, what is a B Corp? And told him on B Corp.

Nice. Stay classy.

So it's like it's. It's that time. It's that time. If you're serious about sustainability, if you're walking the walk and not just, you know, talking it, you need to have that B Corp certification in, in B2B. Maybe a little bit less than the consumer facing, but. But there's businesses like mine. I won't do business with somebody that's not a B Corp if, if I have that choice. So anytime that a products company reaches out to me to try, there was one not too long ago that wanted me to put my logo on those Patagonia shirts. Remember the ones that had all that bust where Patagonia says, we won't let the oil people these anymore. So they reached out to me because I was a B Corp and because they thought that I needed it. I said, well, are you a B Corp. No, we're not a B corp. Then why would I print with you?

Hello.

Having the option to do it locally or with a B corp, that's where I'm going to go first. So we're getting to that point where the traction is really up there. And it's like, okay, now it's a serious gift. You're in the club or you're out of the club. If you're going to talk sustainability, sustainability. And I can't see your metrics, then you're in or you're out. So it's almost everybody at this point, but there are definitely certain places where if that's in the forefront of your brand sustainability, you really need to think about it. Unless you're small or you're, you know, and you can do it another way, because we can do it other ways in marketing authentically.

But.

For some of them, it's just. It's time. Get it or. Or get on. It's kind of like those. The USDA organic stamp at this point.

Yep. And Joni, it's just time.

I think that as far as marketing goes, as you were saying earlier about the millennial generation really demanding this, it's not just them. I mean, they might be the powerhouse of the people who are demanding it, but it's really thinking about your purchasing power and your values and being a conscious consumer, whether you're investing or what you're purchasing at the grocery store or what you're buying. You know, I shop at a Athleta. They're a B Corp. Why? Because they're a B Corp. And I just wanted to talk about one of our clients, Fast Penny Spirits. We're seeing a lot of movement in the spirits industry. They. And how great, from a marketing perspective, to be able to say they're one of five spirits companies that is B Corp certified in the US and one of 14 internationally. That's huge, right? Just, just as a market point, that's something that we can use, you know, on LinkedIn, all of our social, on the website, on their tags. You know, as we're growing on a national level, it's phenomenal. We also have Rogue Creamery, which is really a darling of the B Corp family and has been for a long time. They're located down in Oregon. And again, we've gained so much, much traction for them from in media regarding their sustainability mission. And, you know, and, and you look at our biodynamic winery, again, you know, with the movement towards naturals and natural wine. People have talked for years about Organics, but they haven't in food, but they haven't necessarily talked about what you're drinking. And now we're seeing that over and over and over again. So really this is the time to get Bee Certific certified. It's just a marketing opportunity that not only can we help the company that we're working with, but their partners as well, like we are with Fast Penny Spirits. So it's, it's an amazing opportunity from a storytelling perspective and a marketing perspective.

Definitely. And I think, you know, globally there are still some firsts to capture. You know, we've just helped the first tourism provider in New Zealand become a certified B corp. So shout out to Felix from Owen River Lodge. Globally, there are still firsts to be had. And that, that has some cachet. I mean, I, I, for me back in, probably the same for Serena back in 2016 is I wanted to be in the first 10B Corps in New Zealand. Like, that was really like all over the world, if you can say you were one of the first 10 in your region, like, you know, that you were legit. You know, that was before it was even vaguely a thing. And I think there's still that cachet to be had around certain markets and in certain industries. So it's got value.

If you look at the numbers, I mean, we're at 40. What did you say? 4, 800.

Yep.

Out of all the companies in the world, you're still.

Yeah, yeah.

So much ability to promote this and to stand out in a crowded marketplace. That's the bottom line.

Yeah. Especially North America. You know, when I considered taking up this mantle here, I did the analysis and it was, I mean, there are, I don't know, 130,000 companies in the United States that are 10,000 employees and above. Below that, it's in the millions. It's in the millions. It's, it's. We haven't even, we aren't even at 1% yet of B corps here.

Totally.

We've got a question from Ivan. Ivan is definitely our top performing.

Viewer. Based on interaction and questions and good questions asked, I think this would be a really good question for Jasmine to start off with and then maybe we'll go to Dave. So the question from Ivan is, since we have worldwide examples, or at least not only from nzau, does the B Lab platform adapt to local community trends or culture? I mean, do B Lab have G Local or B Local? I refer not into the legal or regulations requirements. I mean, the social essence and cultural identity. Now within the, within the Assessment under the community section. There are definitely questions around are you supporting small, local, independent suppliers? And I guess, you know, Jasmine, like you said, Co Op bank is built on the principle of being a small, local, independent business. So. Yeah. What, what did you experience going through the assessment? What. Yeah, what have you got to say about that?

There is definitely within the assessment itself a focus on.

Not only going above and beyond what you have to do from a legislative standpoint, but what groups of people you offer those things to. So, for example, a life insurance benefit that we offer, is that actually available to all employees, including casual, fixed term, part time, etc. There's quite a lot in there in the kind of the customer space around how you're treating your customers and in the community and things like that. So I think it's that customer and communities and workers section predominantly that does really focus on. You're not only doing what you're supposed to do by law, but how are you going above and beyond and being broader than that.

It's hard to sort of speak to the mechanics of that because some of the legislation, like New Zealand has really good legislation by default and I don't know how that compares to other areas of the world and sort of other B corps. That is an advantage for us.

Nice.

Yeah.

Do you have a comment there, Dave, or I see Serena nodding her head. Do you want to jump in there?

I just, I just am jealous of you in Australia and California and, you know, Washington, because not only do we have to sort of, you know, make people understand in the, in the general public here in Florida, but we have to actively fight against our government, you know, who is putting bans on banning plastic, who, you know, has stopped solar panels. Like it's really tough out here. Wild, wild west of the South.

United.

That's crazy.

Yeah. Good for you for standing out, Serena, because it's one.

People look at me like I'm crazy and they don't understand it. A lot of times when I, you know, do these talks around Miami, but also it's just, it's hopeful because if we can still do this without government backing, imagine what we can do moving forward in the future. Hopefully, knock on wood, there's, you know, carbon taxing or something like that. But we can do this as companies. I have faith that people have the power, that we don't have to rely on government. So that's my two cents. But kudos to you for being able to have that government package to rely on. Some of us out here in the Wild west and we're still to do this?

Yeah, I think it's, it's a particular.

It'S a particularly prickly challenge here in the United States because we have, you know, 50 different little governments and you know, they all have their own cultural flavor, shall we say, you know, and so that's why the B Corp framework is great because it is an equal playing field across. So I think, I think Ivan's question and I want to key into the social essence and cultural identity. I think, I believe he's in New Zealand, so maybe he's speaking to indigenous people or you know, I, I read that as more of diversity, equity and inclusion type of social essence. And you do get points for hiring for. From diverse communities, in fact, assessment a lot of them. And you know, you have to drill down to the percentage of.

Whatever is deemed underserved or minority population in your.

Community.

And touch on that.

I think specifically in our assessment which focuses on the banking and financial services sector. It's focusing on equal opportunities for things like lending and products, for example, and how you are making those available and accessible for a wide range of minority groups. As you spoke about. Beth.

Anything for you there, Dave.

Yeah, look, and I froze for a second in the middle of that as well. But.

I think that that point on the ethnic minority groups is one that, that even I had struggled with because, you know, I'm part Mori myself. But it's pretty easy to just assume we live in the land of Maori and, and everything and PKEH and everything else. But in our business, you know, we've got people from all over the world with all of these different cultures we actually needed. And this was the great thing about going through the B Corp process. We actually needed to take a step back and say if we're going to expand in a truly global business, we actually need to put a lot of effort into understanding.

What we can do better to support.

The needs but also the inclusivity of our culture to. It's not just Tikanga Mori that, that we're worried about here. We need to put that a little bit on the back burner and take a much, much more global view. And that was an awesome part of going through the B Corp process, which I think has really set us up for success.

Nice. And I think particularly for global companies like you or going global, it's this really challenging how do we balance the local and the international? How do we maintain cultural routes that are appropriate in each country but also have a global culture that is connected within the, within the business culture? And that's a really interesting, you know, and it's interesting how on, on the technical level, some B Corps kind of feel like they're being penalized because they might have employees offshore from New Zealand or the US or wherever their main office is based. And so the classic one is, you know, there's a lot of countries that aren't in. Well, New Zealand is actually, I think New Zealand and the UK are pretty much the own, one of the only two major nations that have a, a certified living wage. So the government have said this is what a living wage is. Australia doesn't have that. The US doesn't have. I don't think the US has a fixed, guaranteed kind of living wage set by the government. So you can be a New Zealand based company, but if the majority of your employees are around the world, you might not get recognized for paying a living wage, even though you're paying your team handsomely. So it's definitely, there's some challenges. It'll be interesting to see if they're going to be ironed out in the next or more ironed out in the next assessment, which is coming through next year or so. But that's great to hear from.

We have legal minimum wage in the United States, but it's not a living wage. That's the problem with it. It's a minimum wage. It's ridiculous, absurd, and it's something that, you know, governments that come in every four years, depending on which way they go, try to get it higher and higher, but, you know, that shouldn't be the thing that, you know, we measure our success against as a country, God forbid. But you know, if it really, if what you have in New Zealand and the UK is actually a living wage, that's amazing.

Yeah, we do, we do pretty well. I mean, and this is, this is the thing, you know, New Zealand, we have a lot of favorable trade winds. You know, we have state provided health care, we have state mandated leave for parental leave and for annual holidays. So New Zealand, potential B Corps, you get quite a few. Yeah. Points just, just because you're based in New Zealand. So we're pretty lucky on that. That's not to say it's still not, you know, rigorous and hard for Kiwi businesses. So let's, let's maybe look at the journey to B Corp. We'll circle back to Jasmine. What was the journey like? What were the big ups? What were the big downs? How long did it take you? Yeah, what have we got?

I think in total it took us probably somewhere between six to eight months from. So the journey kind of looked like.

First protocol is we had endorsement and backing from our SLT and we had engaged in our board that this was a goal that we wanted to achieve. I think that's really important and I know that's something that you're really passionate about, Tim, is if you don't have the backing of your organization and your people and you're a one man thing, this isn't going to be a sustainable option for you and your business to drive. So that was probably a sort of a first protocol. We basically went through the assessment and kind of went, where are we at? How are we looking? Where are we getting points? Where are we not sure about? You know, there's sort of like a sense checking kind of process.

I think we kind of came out not quite there. And then we spent the next sort of three months really reviewing that, making some changes and working towards being able to submit an assessment. Partnering really strongly with Tim on that one.

Once we hit go on the assessment, it was pretty fast moving from there.

Yeah. Which was amazing. It was a whirlwind really. But it was a huge amount of again working with leaders and other teams to get sort of evidence and verification and kind of really partner there to kind of go through that journey and submit all the final bits and bobs. That meant we could get in the queue to be signed off as certified. And I remember getting the news it was probably like Christmas or New Year's or something like that, like a very early January and it kind of came through and it's like, yep, we can sign you off. And we were all like woo.

But in all in saying that it wasn't easy, like it was a really sort of tough and quite grueling process. But I think the key things that I'd sort of say that success looked like for us is that again we had that backing. We were really well prepped, we didn't give up and we were ambitious and we kept going. Even though, you know what you sort of said, Joanie, is other things might have been coming along at that time that.

Might have needed just as much time and attention for us.

And then we were able to kind of tell our people and our customers and kind of roll that out and sort of engage there and start to weave it into our marketing and things like that.

Nice. Yeah. For companies, bigger organizations, it's not uncommon that I have what I call the concerned citizen who reaches out to me and says I want my company to be a B corp. How do I Now sell it to the senior leadership team and the board. And I'm always happy to do that and support that, and I can provide the resources. Fundamentally, it comes back to something that Beth mentioned in her presentation earlier. What are the three things keeping the CEO up at night? Because it'll be talent, attraction, it will be our carbon emissions, it will be something to do with sustainability. But there'll be three things that are keeping the CEO up at night and typically purpose. And B Corp can help solve one or all of those points, and that's how you need to pitch it to your businesses. How can B Corp solve a gnarly problem? That's keeping your senior leadership team up at night. That's all you need to connect. It's kind of like back to sales 101. Yes, it's definitely, it's definitely hard if you're trying to push it up. But what I'm finding increasingly is I'm now getting senior leaders reaching out to me to say, my board have told me we need to do this. So. Oh, this is cool. So as we're getting more and more B Corps and we have board members across multiple companies, they go, okay, well, we've just seen this company do it. Yeah, I'm now going to go to all my other board meetings and go, you need to do this.

I think.

Well, Tim, it kind of comes back to what I was saying earlier around that framework. Like, you could hire a whole sustainability team or something like that, put dedicated roles in your business that's driving this activity, and they're still not within the business owning it, like the framework enables you to do so. You might have some overall organizing or coordinating or whatever you want to call it, but everyone has a part to play in owning a component of that framework. And it's actually really aligned to the work that they're already doing. So it just made sense for us that that framework would fit in with our business and integrate rather than just being another thing.

Totally. And that's why we, the companies we work with, we say, get your team involved. If you're, you know, if you can have at least five other team members, if you're of a decent size or even 10. We worked with one company recently, Genera. We had all 20 or so employees go through the assessment as a team. And the amount that they got out of that as a team, as a bonding exercise was, yeah, it's next level. So this is why, you know, don't just have one person in isolation doing the assessment as a fairly drudgy, you know, online questionnaire that you have to take. Like, you can really use this as a tool, Dave. You've. You've got. How big is your team now at Carbon Click? You probably can't count because it's going up by the milliseconds.

There's no. It's still. Still small. We've got 19 in total. 12. 12 still based here in Auckland. So it's just a case of we're busy growing offshore now.

Nice. And in terms of your sort of journey around the certification, you had a couple of team members that I was working with. How closely connected were you to. In a fast moving, scaling startup as a CEO, were you pulled into it much? Yeah. What was it. What was it like for you?

Yeah, look, I was, I. I actually had to pull myself out of it because it was and a point resource to actually keep the momentum going at our side because between things like raises interfering with traction, what our struggle was that B Corp is so popular that when they started coming back to us and saying, cool, we're ready to go to the next stage, I'd say, oh, I'm in the middle of something here. So I had to bring the wider team in to actually make sure that we were doing everything as fast as possible because it was a priority of mine and I didn't want to be the bottleneck there, but I was certainly as involved as I possibly could be.

Yeah, nice. And I guess Serena and Joni, you're smaller businesses, what I guess more personally driven as we saw you both said, you know, it was. It's a personal thing that you just felt this is the right thing to do. But. Yeah, maybe we'll go to Journey first. Like, what was the. Yeah. How was you sort of mentioned a little bit about the journey, but yeah. Any. Any other highlights or anything you'd like to talk about your journey?

Yeah, I mean, I would say that, you know, I wanted to go through the assessment process first, of course, as the owner, founder of our company. And then I'll be pulling in the team to do some of the more detail work because I want them to know the journey as well. I think that's a really good point, Dave, that, you know, we need to be focusing on. On what is. What's at hand right now. But have the team really be engaged in this because I want to move them up for them to understand what we're committing to as a team and. Well, we're a small team. I always say we're small but mighty and we're very collaborative in that they need to know everything that we're doing, what my commitment is as the CEO and founder, and how we're going to move the company forward also so that we can talk to other companies that come on as clients about our journey. Because it's. They'll want to know if I'm going to. If I'm going to be telling them to work with, you know, grow good. I need to be able to say, like, this is what it's like. This is where the pain points are. And that's very important to me. And that's one of the reasons why, you know, I'm doing getting certified, because I want to be able to tell my clients about the journey and the importance and the marketing opportunities that exist for them.

Nice. And Serena, as someone who is now third time round, you must have got lots of tips and tricks to come back three times. You must. It can't be that bad.

The first time was really cooling because I was on my own and. And there were no resources. I had to do it on my own and I had to research everything and figure it out on my own. The state of Florida, when I.

Went to change to a benefit corporation from a regular corporation, they didn't even know what I was talking about. And they sent me the paperwork back and I said, well, why didn't you didn't change this. They go, oh, we thought that was a mistake. Nobody ever asks for that.

That's the kind of stuff I had to deal with six years ago.

You really wanted to be a B corp, didn't you? You're like, I am doing this.

And, you know, people were like, oh, did you get legal advice? I'm like, no, of course not.

I fly by the seat of my pants. I got nobody else to answer to. Who cares.

I don't necessarily recommend that, especially if the larger. But becoming a benefit corporation does actually legally protect your mission here in the United States, where somebody could actually force you out of it if you aren't in that legal designation anyways, that's a whole other subject. But now today it's different. The universities here in Florida have programs in place. I'm a mentor for uf. And those students are other corporations through, like, you know, just as.

As a.

As a school project. So there are definitely so many more resources today. And of course, you know, people like yourself, Tim. I don't remember ever seeing anybody who was a B Corp consultant who would hold your hand through. And there's even websites that have, you know, you could just buy sort of this Course that takes you through it. So today is there's just a lot more opportunity for you to walk through it by yourself, even with other people's resources. And if not, it's such a growing opportunity anyways, because it's not just something that you check off the list. It kind of becomes like a blueprint or a roadmap for everything sustainable. And as a sustainable branding person, it's something that I rely on, I go back to. And if you can bake your purpose into your mission and vision of your business, you need to rely on that bia, because that's what's going to back you up with metrics in the end.

I think. Can I just read a quote from one of my clients? This is from Faust, Penny Spirits. And they just got certified sustainability guides. The decisions we make every day and how we plan for the future every day. And that's such an important point, that this isn't something that we're just going to do and then put down this something we're going to live by. And that's the most important piece of this whole conversation, is that you have.

To walk the talk.

Totally.

No, I totally agree. And yeah, I think what Serena was saying, you know, yeah, I was the same. 2016 is like, I don't know what I'm doing here. I'm just going to give this a go. And I think a lot, a lot of the early B Corps were in that, in that, in that state. I think the thing to reflect on that is since then, since day one, B Lab, they kind of want you to certify this. This is not a negative screening. When you go through the verification process, they're not looking to take points off you. They're looking to ensure that you are able to claim the points that you're claiming. But they will also typically try and coach you through and say, look, you haven't quite got what we need here right now, but if you can update this, if you can do this, if you can create a policy around that, if you can show something to support this, then we can give you those points. So it's a very. I've always found it a very collaborative process going through the assessment. And yet what you were saying, Joni, again, this is why I really like that the B Corp assessment is. It is. It brings. It brings purpose to life in the operational of your day to day. Because the whole assessment is around your contribution, which is what we were saying yesterday. Purpose is about your contribution and what are you doing and how are you doing it and this is why we always, and this is why we offer all the purpose work that we do. Like don't just do the B Corp in isolation, don't do purpose in isolation. Do the two together and bring them together and make it so that every day everyone, as I always say to clients, if your lowest paid part time worker knows what you're doing and why you're doing it and are connected to B Corp and your purpose, you've nailed it. And it kind of sounds easy, but it's not always easy.

Can I interrupt there? Sorry. I think it's a really important point as far as retention and recruitment that B Corp stand out for recruitment and retention. I mean people have always come to our company because we've been sustainably minded. We've had the types of clients that young people wanted to work on and you know, they've stayed for longer than most people do because they care. And we have, we have a purpose, we have a mission. And that's very clear. And like all of our clients are experiencing that same in the same way. Say for instance, it's so nice to be able to say like with RO Creamery, for instance. Instance, we're trying to make the world a better place every day. Wheel, wedge and crumble. They're a creamery, you know, a dairy creamery. And you know that's, that's beautiful. Like who wouldn't you rather work for somebody like that than somebody that doesn't have a clear vision and mission at the top? So I think that that part of, of this younger generation as well, but others who just simply really care are going to look for companies that are B Corp certified.

Yeah.

And that, that's. Sorry Tim, I gotta get this out of me that, that you know, to. I forget who's some, all of your points, that this is not a set it and forget it kind of endeavor. This is injecting purpose into your organization. It's a living, breathing thing. Going through the BIA is just not a one time thing. I mean you go through it and what you learn from going through the assessment and everyone learns something they did not know about their own organization. That is just going to happen. You know, you're going to learn that. Oh, I didn't give, you know, my 1099 contractor has not gotten a raise in like five years. I need to like fix that.

Right.

Because that's like part of the, part of the, part of the. They get down and dirty into the, the bits and bites and the, what do you call the bits and bops down.

Educate you slowly.

Yeah, getting, getting down, getting down to it. And you know, it's all goodness, you know, you want to learn, you want to learn where you can up level, where you can be better, you know, because that, that's the point. Right, but back to what you were just saying, Joni, about people do want to work for companies that are, are, are led by purpose. But more than the aspirational aspects which are easy to sell, there's hard data about why it makes financial sense. Because money drives change. And B corps, companies that have to adhere to UNSTG and SEC rules around their ESG perform better. They, they create and maintain and increase stakeholder value over time. And that's the thing, you know, in North America that is very different or in the United States that I found to be different than what you're dealing with down there in New Zealand is, you know, we've got a lot of old legacy industry, old stakeholder profit over everything mentality in a large sector of our business community. And those companies and businesses that don't get on the train are going to be left at the station. And I for one, you know, don't really care. I want to focus on the companies that, you know, my three college age kids are gonna go work for. And I can tell you that I'm not, they're not going to work for companies that are not focused on purpose and moving towards being regenerative businesses.

But I think it's broader than that. If we, if we look back to what Lawrence was talking about yesterday from Sinlay, how board members from Sinlay were now moving to other B Corps because they recognized, having gone through the journey, they recognized that they. So I think it was one of the board members from Sinlay is now on the board of Raglan Coconut Company. And so we, I don't think it, I think we put a lot of effort or focus on those millennials, but I think there are some older people with gray hairs and gray beards and what have you. This, this yearning for purpose and meaning is, it's not just millennial. It's, it's for everyone. It's just, I think the millennials have got it easier to be able to connect to it because it's in front of them. Whereas for some of us with sunk costs in the big business world, it's harder for us to admit that actually maybe we've been doing it wrong. Just quickly before we ask another question. So Serena, we need to connect you with ils. I was hanging out with Ilse and her future leaders yesterday afternoon talking B Corp and purpose. She wants to connect and work out how she can get awesome people like you and programs going at Lincoln University here in Christchurch. So we'll connect you to on LinkedIn or via email after this event. So look at that. You've already done it. Look at that. You such a millennial multitasking. Look at you go. Classic. So we'll go to Dave maybe for this one first. So in terms of. So you got your B Corp. The team have been on, on the journey. You get it. What happened? Like, what was it like with the team when you, when you kind of announced it? Have you noticed any significant changes culturally or. Yeah, how the team's operated since you've been certified?

Oh, you're muted. Look at that. I can unmute you, I think. No, I can't unmute you. You need to unmute you.

Here we go.

Sorry. Look, I think it was a sense of celebration when, when we actually got the B Corp certification. I think the actual, the team.

Dynamics have changed along the way as we've, as we've identified holes in some of it or missing parts in some of our policies that we've been able to fill in along the way. So we've kind of, you know, during the process we had about three months where we were reviewing and adding to our policies as we go when we're asked questions that we didn't have an answer to. And that was the value of going through this, is that we, you know, we would always come up with an answer and that would be a mini celebration in the team.

And that was, you know, so, so we were able to get that continuous buy in culture shift in momentum over a few months while we were doing the, the hard part of B Corp. Nice.

And Jasmine, what about you? Because you're part of the learning, development, sort of people and culture team at Co Op Bank. So you'd be pretty close to that coal face. Yeah. What did you sort of notice or see from the team?

I think echoing Dave's comments around, it was certainly a celebration. And a lot of people, we received lots of comments from both customers and our people internally around how proud they were that they could be a part of something, that recognized and actually acknowledged that banking could be a bit different. Like there's almost sort of this perception, I suppose about financial services that it's all about the profit. And I suppose if you do have a shareholder model where you are making profit for your shareholders, that guides a lot of decision making. And I think that was one of the things, you know, you asked me earlier on around being the first bank and things like that. We actually want to be a part of that and be proactive about that and drive that forward and not let that happen to us. And so I think, you know, that was really acknowledged. I think there are a lot of people that were kind of like, I hadn't really known about VCorp before now, but I can see that it makes sense and how that fits with our purpose. And it means that people actually aren't just a number to us. So just a few little tidbits, I guess, of the things that, you know, people shared with us around how they felt about it. When we recognize that.

Nice.

Yeah.

It's overwhelming. A lot of companies we work with, we now do this kickoff session where we advise you get the whole team on this call, and we run them through almost kind of Beth's presentation from earlier on. It's kind of like the history of B Corp. Why it's a thing. What does it mean? What does the journey look like? And just from that kickoff session, the response we get is like, oh, my gosh, the team have just come to me, everyone. Now, this is what happened with. I've just put a link to the client's story about Genora, who we helped. Like, I said, look, if you could get maybe three or four of your team out of 20 to come to these sessions, they invited everyone. The whole company turned up. And that blew me away, and I think it blew them away because they were. And as you go through the assessment and the whole team, oh, my word, I had no idea that we did that. That's so cool. Now that I know that we do that, and that sense of pride, it's. It's just like, this is why we call. This is why I call it purpose, fuel, performance. If you can connect into that, it's like a super fuel that your team can connect into. Yeah. It's so, so powerful. Joni, Serena. Yeah. Anything from you, I guess. Smaller teams, but your sense of having what. Yeah. Gone through the assessment for yourself. Maybe we'll go to Joni first. Yeah. What? Any highlights for you mimicking that?

Well, we're still in the process, so I think I'm a little early on touching about how the impact is on our team, but because our folks have been with me for a long time, I know that it's going to be meaningful and it is kind of. Why. Why have we waited for so long to do this? Because we've been living this way for so long anyway, we might as well get. Be able to be certified and tell the world that we're certified. And I think for us, you know, one thing that we're looking at, and Serena, I'm sure that you feel this way too, is that we're looking, looking at the power of the community, B Corp community, and how we can partner and in ways to make an even more significant change and to be with other people who have our same values. That's really important to me. I turn down clients.

Whom are not a good fit. And even if we need the money, I'm like, no. You know, we're very values oriented. And so the community that the B Corp is going to offer is a huge asset to us.

Nice. Yeah, we've got, there's a few clients that we're currently working with who that was a real indicator for them that B Corp was going to be a good fit. Was they. They turned down clients recently because they started to have this conversation internally about actually that doesn't really align with what we're saying. And I think this, this is a big part of the individual purpose journey is when I call it the head, heart, hand alignment. When you're doing things that you don't actually understand why you're doing it and you know that it doesn't feel right, but you're still doing it. It's those moments that are leading to more.

That's a firm. No.

This is a definite. As opposed to in New Zealand or Australia, we have this year now thing. It's kind of like, yeah, I'm not really sure if it's yes or no. Yeah, let's just make it a hard no. Yeah. Serena, what have you got to say on that?

Great to have those sort of values. And as a, you know, purpose driven brand strategist, those values are key. So when you have that set in stone, it's like, no, I can't. Don't deviate from this. This is where, this is where I have planted my flag. And I'm sorry, I can't. We don't align, I can't help you. There will be no green. If you're not doing it, I'm not gonna, you know, promote it. And it's, it's good to have that sort of line in the stand and say, no, I'm. I'm not taking this. And that's something that you can't.

It makes it pretty easy.

Yeah.

And something you can't do when you're working for, you know, an organization that's.

Not a B Corp. Yep, totally. And that's one of the big benefits of being on purpose we talked about yesterday is, you know, focus. It makes it really clear what's in, what's out. It's like this is just not for us or for me.

That.

So I'm talking with somebody else in a different marketing company. And one of their employees had asked to be and even within the B Corp world and still working with businesses, one of the employees had asked to be recused from a certain job because he was a vegan. And the fact that we can have these conversations in marketing, could you imagine? I can imagine bringing that up, you know, 20 years ago. Oh, I'm sorry, I can't work on that. What?

Yeah.

So the fact that we can even have these conversations now because we are is amazing.

Totally. And there's a really good story about that from Kathmandu. Who are one of the biggest B corps in this region. In one of their impact reports, I think I can't remember the gentleman's name, but he due to, through religious beliefs was, was a vegan and he was responsible for sourcing responsible down products for the Kathmandu down jackets. And they pulled his story out as a, as a way of sort of showing that this is how deep we take the moral purposeful kind of conflict within a profit driven organization as to how like the guy who's sourcing your, your ethical down is a vegan. So it's personally important to them that they do this right. And it's like pulling those moments of purpose and real human stories is what people connect to. It's like what we're all about. Just on what you were saying, Joanie, as well, you know, if you don't do it now, I'm a bit, I love my skiing and Warren Miller movies. If you're into your skiing, you'll know the Warren Miller movies and his famous quote, he'd always say at the end of his movies, if you don't do it this year, you'll be one year older when you do. I kind of feel like that's, that's the thing for big, you don't do it today. You're just going to be slightly older when you do do it. So, you know, do it whilst you're young and fresh.

We've got about five minutes left for our panel. Any final thoughts from, from the panelists? Maybe we'll, we'll go back to Dave. Any to sum up, like, what would you say about B Corp and in general?

Oh, you're mute. Muting.

Yeah, look, in general, it's, it's not for the faint hearted. It's something that once you commit to B Corp, it's a, it's a big undertaking, but the investment is well worth it. It's a quite a revolutionary process that you'll go through. It'll uncover lots and lots of holes, you know, where you thought you were perfect. It'll uncover lots of those holes, which is really insightful. And these are lessons that I'll carry through to other, you know, other businesses and angel investments that I've invested in. But certainly it's, it's a process that I would do again a hundred times over.

Nice. Jasmine, final thoughts from yourself.

I think the key thing for anyone out there who's not on this journey yet or starting this journey, just get in there and have a go. And yeah, it's pretty grueling and it's, I think Jamie Oliver says it's like going through your nickel drawer or something like that.

Your business and how it stacks up. Right. But it's actually about celebrating what you do well and recognizing that there's opportunity to improve which is relevant for anyone no matter what industry you're in. So don't be afraid about not stacking up and looking at that as a negative. Actually take it as a positive thing to go. I've got some actions that I can actually take away and weave this into what I do and really nail it and continue to improve and drive that over time. And this is a journey. Like, if I think about our journey as an organization, we've been driving this stuff for a while now and we will continue to be in positions to need to improve over time. And you know, to echo some of the things that Joanie and Serena have said as well, like, people expect this of us now, whether it's our employees, our customers, other businesses who want to partner with us and don't let it happen to you. Be a part of it now and journey with it. Yeah.

Nice. 100 degree.

Jasmine and Dave, you captured that really well. And I just want to say that having watched one of my clients just go through the process on her own, I am so grateful for Grow Good and Tim and Beth to help us through this process because I know that it's just going to be so much more efficient and in a time where everyone's so busy, we're super busy. But I know that this is really important. I don't want to be another year older. I want to get this done. And I know I'm in the Right. Hands.

Nice. Appreciate that.

Yeah, thank you. Joni. I was going to react to what Dave said. You know, it is not for the faint of heart, but hopefully, you know, we are certainly here to help soften the blow. We've got boilerplate that Joni alluded to, you know, to help you with the documentation. If those are the areas that you need, you need help with. We have a lot of tools.

That we can avail you of throughout the process.

Serena, final thoughts from you.

Do it.

Just do it. Just do it. Just be it.

Yeah, I'm, I'm looking for the arguments as to why you shouldn't do it. That that would be the better panel of it. Like why shouldn't you do it?

I mean, is there a. Sometimes I tell people that it's not for everybody. So if you're gonna greenwash, don't do it. Don't do it.

Oh, it's not for gun companies.

Yeah.

It's not for casinos.

Yeah, there's some companies. Yeah, yeah.

It's not, you know, there are some clear. In fact, you can't as a gun manufacturer certified B corp, even if you're, I mean, for profit. So there are some guard. If you are a casino, it's not for you, you know, unless, you know. Yeah, it's just not. So there are, there are areas and you know, why not the, the.

In. In America, Serena and Joni, you can appreciate that it's always the challenge is what's the roi? What's the ROI of doing this? And you know, we're talking about long term soft ROI here. It isn't, you know, if you invest 5,000, you're going to get 12,000 back in X amount of time. It is a purpose, you know, horizon that we're building. And while, you know, big companies like McKenzie and you know, BCG are tracking the, the hard returns of impact investing and the money that's going in this framework helps prove out the long term benefits and return of investing in purpose.

Totally rigorous but achievable is how we like to talk about B corp assessment. It's going to be, it's going to be hard questions, but it's, it's doable and it doesn't matter. Kind of, yeah, business size. It's about mindset. Not obviously with some of those preclusions. Well, that's, we're pretty much on time. I'll leave it for ILS to give us the closing comment. A huge thank you to the panel. Well, I could not have said it any better myself. Thank you. Not only for being here today but thank you for being genuinely your leaders in this movement. You know when we're all sitting in the rest home on Mars or wherever we're going to be living in 50 years time. God do you remember Serena, do you remember in 2016 when we were a B corp? You know generally you are the movers and shakers in a movement that is sweeping the world and is in 50 years time. We'll look back and wonder what why we weren't B Corps 50 years before we were all B corps. I feel so thank you for doing what you're doing. Yeah that's it from us. We we'll remove you from the stream so say hi to you in a minute.

Thank you.

Thank you team and Beth and I will just sit here and and close out the the summit. So we did it. No tech challenges on day two. We'll take that high fives all around.