The Jar Foundation Podcast

Okay, there we go. We are, and that really worked so well, didn't it?

It did, it did.

I love that video. Well, hello everybody, uh, my name is Ken Stearns. I'm the host of this podcast, the JAR Foundation Podcast, a chat about mental health. Uh, today I'm with Hannah Rose. Hannah, welcome.

Hello, great to be here.

Thank you. And, um, so this podcast is really about talking to people in the mental health field, or, you know, anybody really that's come, kind of come through that area. So it could be a patient, could be a policymaker. I'm looking for people that are in the funding side, the nonprofit side, administration side, treatment side, all kinds of, really a 360. We're gonna try to get a 360 view of a little bit, not the state of mental health, but really the state of the services and how that looks and So hopefully, as I build out the JAR Foundation, a nonprofit for mental health, I've got a little bit better clue of, of how to focus the energies, the limited resources. And so I come from an educated, um, standpoint. And so the best way I know to do that is to listen and to listen to as many people as possible. So I've been doing this podcast every day, uh, since we started on, uh, the 3rd. So it's, it's pretty crazy. I've got— I have two today, Hannah Rose, yourself and somebody else. It's amazing the acceptance that I've sent out messages and people are absolutely willing to talk and want to talk and share what they're seeing and what they're doing in this space. So Hannah, want a little bit, a little bit about who you are, maybe as a human? And since that's a critical part of being, of being here on the planet. And then a little professional journey. And then we can talk a little bit after that about the business and what you're doing.

Absolutely. Yeah. So my name is Hannah Rose. I'm a licensed clinical professional counselor here in the state of Maryland. And as a human, I mean, I sometimes don't even know where to start because I have so many things that I'm just passionate about and excited about. I would say right now, number one, who I am as a human is an avid musical theater lover and wannabe performer. I haven't done musical theater since high school and college, and I recently fell back in love with it after going and seeing dozens of shows in the last couple months. And so I'm taking voice lessons again. It's incredibly humbling. It's, it's so vulnerable in a different way. And so I love musical theater. I love books. I read so much fiction and I read so much nonfiction. Big Brené Brown fan over here. She changed my life. All about vulnerability, authenticity, shame, shame narratives, etc. I am a dog parent, so my son, aka dog Ralph, is like the light of my life. And what else? You know, standard things. I love traveling and doing nothing and watching Ted Lasso on my couch, you know, just that's who I am as a person. I got a lot of energy all of the time. It never ends. That's who I am professionally, totally LinkedIn with all of that. Not LinkedIn like the media platform, but LinkedIn, like I'm LinkedIn. I, uh, yeah, I guess the way that I would define myself now is less of a therapist. That used to be my kind of professional identity for what felt like many years for me, but now more of a practice owner. And so you mentioned the organizational piece and admin and insurance. I mean, that's basically what I'm doing kind of day in and day out now. I've moved away from one-on-one counseling and more into more of the administrative work of running a group practice. My group practice is called Rose Wellness and we're here in Baltimore, but we're virtual, so we're really all over the place. We're licensed to treat clinicians, or we're licensed clinicians to treat patients, clients in Maryland. And, um, you know, my, my number one professional passion is public speaking and training. And so now that I'm stepping away from counseling, I'm really gearing up to do more public speaking and those kinds of things, organizational development, and just working with people who are in the healthcare profession that want to work with clients, because I think there's a lot of mentorship that, that can happen in that space. And I know for myself and my own imposter syndrome and personal life struggles, which can then translate into being a counselor, and the perfectionism, I think there's a lot of room there for people to be coached through some of that stuff. So that's, that's me. That's where I'm at. I just want you to know I cannot hear you. I don't know.

Yeah, I touched my mute. Thank you for that. Um, I love the public speaking part.

Yeah, me too. Um, I mean, it's like a branch of musical theater, right? It's kind of a performance, but you're being yourself and bearing your soul. It's all— put me on a stage and I'm the happiest I will ever be. It's—

it really is. I mean, it is performing. Right. It's, and it's the best performance because it's a one-person show. Uh, there's, you know, yeah, I love public speaking. So this is actually, I just started, uh, we can chat afterwards. I just hired, I just not hired, but I joined a team, an individual that's got a practice that like you, it helps what you're doing, helps public speakers put your package together, helps you, um, you know, how to position yourself, how to articulate, you know, your value proposition, put your materials together. A really great program. I just started about 2 weeks ago. Great.

That's awesome.

Great person. Got a little community together. Every Monday night you get on a Zoom call if you want and, you know, get a little motivated. He was on there last night kicking some ass.

I bet it's hard. I mean, it's like, it's like be yourself, but also you know, be dynamic and be quick on your feet. And it's just all these things. I love it. It's a challenge, and it's, it's more energizing than anything I've ever done.

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's a blast. And, uh, boy, it's nerve-wracking too when you see a couple thousand people. I mean, people, people panic over 10 people, 100. You get into a room with a couple thousand people, it's a different animal. You can't see the people anymore, you know. You can't, you can't reach— you're not really talking to people, you're talking to, uh, you know, like this this palette of faces.

That's wild. I mean, one thing that really helps me with, you know, what the term that's been coined, I think, self-centered fear, right? Because fear of public speaking is like one of the top phobias that exist. It's just incredibly common. And what that self-centered fear is, is everyone is looking at me and thinking about me and judging me. And the way that I see it is like, nope, everyone in the room is likely thinking about themselves to an extent because no one on this planet, not one person on this planet thinks about me as frequently as I think about me. And that can be humbling, and it's also so freeing. It's like, I don't really care if I'm gonna make an ass out of myself or be awkward and vulnerable, because a couple minutes later you're just gonna be thinking about yourself again, and that's okay.

This is so true. Everybody in the audience is absolutely not thinking about you, promise you. They're thinking about, you know, picking up the kid after this, hurry up, talk so I can get off, or, you know, or I forgot to turn— did I leave the lights on in the house?

And if someone's focus is on you for even a brief period of time, you know, try to leave an impact, try to, try to do something. But at the end of the day, like, no one is going to go home and be like, that Hannah Rose really sucks as a person. And if they do, that's a sad place to be.

So, well, you made a good impression on somebody at least.

Yes. Yeah.

How does it— I mean, is there a correlation to that, to mental health? You know, as we go through, like, I mean, there's almost a straight analogy, right? As we go through life, We really do when we walk around places, even like, you know, so many times you think about, at least for me, like, I wonder what people are thinking.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, so I recently, when COVID first happened, I deactivated all social media except for LinkedIn because LinkedIn was boring to me and there was no risk of an endless scroll on LinkedIn. But sorry if we're on LinkedIn right now, but I deactivated all social media. And as a millennial, that was like you know, so much of my identity was put into like curating this feed and people giving me the like. And it was so— it was almost like withdrawal going through that at first. And so I recently— it's been, you know, 3 years— recently just reactivated Instagram. And it's really interesting to notice, to just be mindful of and like non-judgmentally noticing my own like, oh, did anybody like this? Or I've been posting videos of myself singing because I'm trying to just like embrace that self-centered fear and be like, I can't really do this, but you know what, I'm trying to unlearn the fear of what you think of me. And it's easier to do when you're off social media completely, and it's much harder to do when you're trying to re-establish a healthy relationship with social media, which is where I am right now. So last couple days have been really interesting for me, just trying to navigate that cluster F of, wow, this is really just like a highlight reel, and everyone is liking and viewing and voyeur— like, I'm just a voyeur to other people's lives. And it's It's interesting to not pick up the phone every 2 minutes and intentionally say, no, I'm not going to do that. What do I want to pay attention to right now? That's right in front of me. It's a great book called How to Break Up with Your Phone, which was like the impetus for me detaching from social media by Catherine Price. And that book changed my life because it just brought so much attention to how addicted to technology and screens I am, as I'm sure many of us are. So anyway, highly recommend that book.

Oh, that's great. I love how to break up with your phone.

Yep. I made a YouTube video about it.

Of course you did.

Of course I did.

On my phone.

The funniest thing is that on my little YouTube channel, that is the most viewed one because people search, how do I, how do I have a different relationship with my phone? I'm addicted to it. And it's all, it's all very interesting and totally plays into mental health. Because isolation, disconnection, fear of what people think of us, um, curating this second life. It's like, oh, my life is in shambles, but I look really good in this picture. It's this cognitive dissonance that just fuels depression, anxiety, shame. And so Gen Z— not everyone, but like Gen Z, who grew up with more social media than any of us did—

it's—

yes, you see it. You see this anxiety and isolation and Yeah, that's my social media rant.

Well, that's a good one. I mean, you're seeing, I mean, you're seeing, you're seeing the impact and the consequences of it, of really unmitigated technology. And, uh, you know, like these people designing the, the algorithms, yes, are, you know, they, they make cocaine and heroin and methanol. Um, I'm trying to think of, you know, Think of the most designer drug, the worst designer drugs that ever hit the planet.

Yeah.

And these people design the algorithms to really addict you and to get this. I mean, I'm sure they're hooking people up to machines to find out where, what, where does the serotonin pump?

Yeah.

How do we do this? How do we hook people? I mean, you're all you people out there doing this stuff. If you're watching this video.

Yeah. Just bring that level of—

bad karma on you, bro.

Bring a level of nonjudgmental awareness to your own relationship with technology and noticing, like, you know, when we're feeling a shred of discomfort or what we call boredom, how quick are we to pick up our phones?

Yeah.

You know, how quick are we to just say, let me just tune out? And it's numbing. And we can't selectively numb emotions. So we're numbing fear and anxiety and isolation and depression, and we're numbing true gratitude and joy. And so we're just like this. Yeah, I have a lot of feelings about it. So anyway, I'm trying to get back on, but like healthily, and it's so much harder than just being completely off.

Interesting. Yeah, I struggle with it as well. You know, my— a lot of my business is there. It's how we reach people, right? It's how do we get— it's how we hook people into coming to the show is through clips and through social media. So I have a tortured relationship with it. Yeah, it's a tough one for me. I'm not quite sure where I'm at on it. I do like this.

There's so much— yeah, there's so much room to grow. There's so much— like, there are ways to develop healthier relationships with our phone if we have to and want to use it. Like, yeah, I'm not a full Luddite. Like, I'm not going to be anti-technology 24/7, and I want to have a healthy relationship with my phone.

I like that. I think that's the right way to say it, is build a healthy relationship. What are you seeing? I mean, we talked a little bit before we got on about, you know, pre-COVID and, you know, ending up, how it impacted your own career, right? And then ultimately end up with a practice. What are you seeing? What's the mental health state? What are you seeing? You know, what it maybe, I want to say not about COVID but you know, before, cause I think COVID just exposed it. I don't know if that's the case. What are you seeing? I'll let you kind of— what's your view in the last 10 years on the mental health, the direction, and what can we do a little bit better as people?

Well, 10 years ago, I was in my very early 20s, so I don't know how privy I was to the mental health crisis. However, in the last maybe like 7 years when I've been in the field, 7 or 8-ish, I don't know, I'm bad at math. What I've seen through COVID is that, you know, on a, on a positive note, right, the accessibility to therapy, people who are able to do telehealth and are open to telehealth, including clinicians, because I was so skeptical about telehealth prior to COVID. I scoffed at telehealth, and now I'm like, oh, it actually can be equally, if not sometimes more effective, because when someone is in the comfort of their own home or the safety of their car and they don't have to leave the house and drive to an office and worry about other people hearing them or whatever it is. It's like, yeah, it's just different. It's more accessible. But what I've seen is, I think, you know, at first with quarantining, that illuminated a lot of pre-existing cracks in foundations of people's self-worth, connection to others, and especially in their relationships with like intimate partners, um, significant others. So it also, I think, illuminated the resilience of the human spirit. I mean, the fact that we have been able to adjust, adapt, get through. I mean, we have gone through— I haven't heard this in a while. This was said all of the time when COVID first happened, but like this unprecedented global trauma, right? Let alone like just the day-to-day shenanigans of the world. Like, I'll stay as neutral as possible here, but like politics things.

Yes, the normal.

The earth is just like burning casually, right? Like we're going through a lot and social media has it in your face 24/7, right? And so one of my clients called it doom scrolling. Like I'm just doom scrolling through the news because it's just this always impending doom. And yet we get through it and yet we walk through it and we can because we have this resilience that many of us, you know, a couple of years ago, if someone said, hey, what would you do if the whole world basically just shut down and you had to stay home for X amount of months? Most of us would be like, oh my God, no. I was like, that sounds like a dream. I, I, yeah, I'm like, whoa, I love being home. That's amazing. That sounds great, right? But, you know, just the, the fear that we all went through, etc., in early COVID times. And now I think it's just, um, I think people are more willing to have conversations about mental health, especially now that Gen Z is like very much of an age and vocal to talk about and post about, etc., and bring attention to these things. We have celebrities, we have, um, pro athletes really speaking about like, hey, I've gone through this. We have people saying, hey, I've been sober for X amount of years, I'm an addict. And it's like, as I love when people are using their platform to talk about those things if they have a platform. Because those of us, like the civilians that are just trying to get the word out, and sometimes we can't reach as many people. And so I do, I think COVID brought about a more, um, at least national conversation about mental health. Suicide rates skyrocketed, opioid overdoses skyrocketed. I mean, these things that have been going on for a very long time and are major issues, it's like it became more national attention about it. Similarly to when the opioid epidemic gravitated from the city to the suburbs and we were like, oh, white people are dying, we should talk about this. Yeah, I have a lot of feelings about that. Um, it's like COVID brought a lot of this to the surface so that we had to talk about it and deal with it, which I think ultimately is a good thing.

Yeah, I, I— this is a weirdest thing, but I think the co— like, I've had a couple conversations where people came out of COVID a little bit different but improved. Like it didn't, you know, and the net-net was there. It gave them opportunity.

Yeah. Yeah. And the reality is that for many of us, the impetus to change is often pain, you know, and sometimes the pain— there's a quote, I think it's Henry Cloud, who was like a psychiatrist, the— and I'm butchering this, paraphrasing it rather, but it's like, you know, it isn't until the fear of changing overcomes the pain of staying the same that we will know growth or something like that.

We will change. I know that one.

Yeah, and I think that's really huge here is that, you know, I work very closely in the addiction and recovery community. And, you know, people don't come into recovery in like to treatment or a 12-step program on a winning streak, right? We come in when we are broke and we are desperate. And we say, I don't know what else to do. I'm in so much pain. And I think COVID allowed a lot of people to say, okay, you know what, I am so full of anxiety. I'm so full of self-loathing. My relationships are falling apart. I need to take action. And so that action, that pain was the impetus to change, which I think again is a good thing.

You took, you touched on, um, you said something that really resonated with me a little earlier about the human spirit. And, you know, as I was saying, as I traveled across the US and saw what people had heard, what people had been through, you know, face to face, um, I was like, wow. And, you know, one story after another story after another story after another story. And eventually, like, I think the human spirit is actually unfucking breakable. Like, like, it's really hard to break a person even though they might be broken, you know, shit cracked, or, you know, a little bit dislodged. But somehow people find a way to get up the next day for the most part. I mean, people do— I mean, there is suicide. People do take their life. They do drink themselves to death. They do those other things. Um, but there's a, a far, far greater percentage of people hit the survival mode at some point.

Yes. Yes. And where we come in, the clinicians who are treating people that have walked through trauma, pain, distress, whatever you want to call it, everyone has experienced trauma. I'm just going to, as a trauma-informed therapist, I'm just going to throw that out there. We minimize our stuff all the time. We're like, oh no, no, that's not trauma because this person had it worse. And it's like, it's not how it works. Comparative empathy is not a thing. So like, even if the house next to you is on fire, that doesn't mean your work stress is actually less. Having perspective is really important, but when we minimize our emotional experience, it's just, it's not, it doesn't do us a service at all. It doesn't do anyone a service at all. Um, but the resilience of the human spirit, I mean, we can go through such devastating things. We can go through external, internal trauma, and yet we can walk through and we are resilient. And I am constantly, when I was practicing more frequently with clients, I was constantly saying like, you, don't see how resilient you are. Like, do you realize? And so where we come in, what I was saying, is when you're no longer in crisis mode, you're no longer in survival mode, but all of those protective mechanisms and survival coping skills are still in place and they no longer serve you. And your nervous system doesn't know how to say, "I'm okay now. I don't have to be guarded. I'm okay now. I don't have to be people pleasing." Yeah. You know, I don't have to read the room anymore. It's those— that's where we can kind of come in and help and say, well, this served you at a different point in time. It no longer serves you. So how can we lovingly, you know, get rid of that?

Basically, I think it's great. I, you know, shared, you know, people— so many people I know have gone into therapy. And I don't, I don't think I've met anybody of those people that said I didn't like it and I stopped. Hmm.

Oh, I've met so many people that are like, "I tried it, it doesn't work," and I'm like, "I hear you." Therapists are also just human, and so the single most important foundational piece of therapy is the therapeutic alliance. It's the rapport that you have with your therapist. And so if it's not a good fit, or maybe the therapist, God forbid, like fell asleep while you were talking, like something horrible like that, I get why people would write it off and say, "That's not for me." Um, however, a lot of those people do end up saying— trying again and saying, well, maybe, maybe it just wasn't a good fit.

I— yeah, and I think this is one reason why I think that the teletherapy is so powerful, because, you know, although you don't get quite the same chemistry out, you don't get that— the, the energy— we don't share the energy, and maybe that's a good thing if that's out of the room. I, I don't— you know, that might be a good thing actually in some way. That you're not in the same room, but it allows you to meet more people. I mean, you can meet 5 therapists. You don't have to drive to 5 different offices. You don't have to drive an hour this way, 30 minutes that way, park, you know, wait in the— wait in the waiting room. I mean, I think you can— you can go and meet different people and find someone you have a connection with and then go from there.

Yeah, and you can have your dog on your lap, or you can show your therapist your cats, or your art project or whatever it is. It's a different kind of intimacy to be in someone's home with them via telehealth. It's very interesting. Yeah, it's really, really something.

Yeah, I love that. I mean, this is a crazy— but I think— oh, we're still okay. I thought we were a little bit close on time. I was like, that went too fast. How about some advice for me? Any— what You know, you've, you've kind of made the transition, right? You've done your own career. I mean, pretty young and you've already pivoted and you pivoted for different, you know, different reasons. I'm in a bit of a pivot, you know, trying to— so what, what have you seen around nonprofits or what advice would you have for me as I kind of, as I head down this road? What should I focus on? What should I stay away from? Or any kind of advice like that?

Oh, so as a therapist, rule of thumb is staying out of advice and never saying like, you should do this, but I will provide any insights that I may have in my short time on this earth. First and foremost, I have literally no experience on the business side of nonprofits, so I can't speak to running a nonprofit at all. I did work at an addiction treatment center that's a nonprofit for many— for me, many years. It was like 5 years, but that's a long time for me.

It's a long time.

Yeah. And I think the piece, like, the reason this place is and has been so successful, it's It's like mission-oriented, right? And like I could tell within moments of meeting you, you are driven by passion, passion to do something. It's like calling you. And I think especially now as a business owner, I can see how a lot of companies get a bad rep for being like, oh, they only care about the money. And the reality is there is a business and administrative piece. Like we can't do all of our work for free. And also we can let that mission, whatever that internal passion is, drive us. And so My non-advice advice is always, always, always trust your gut. Trust your gut with people. Like, I personally don't take advice from some— or I'll say it this way, I wouldn't accept directions from someone who hasn't been where I'm going. Okay. I love that.

Oh, that's great. I love that.

Very nice way of saying like, listen, if I don't want what you have, like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna take what you say to heart. And that comes back to like Teddy Roosevelt's Man in the Arena speech, right? Like, it's not the critic who counts. Like, if you're not in the arena with me— this is very Brené Brown, I just like, I'm a Brené Brown sponge. All she talks about essentially is like, yeah, you, if you put yourself out there, you will fall, you will eat shit. Can we get back up and do so with an open heart? Can we practice selective vulnerability, right? Like, if someone is giving me tons of unsolicited advice, which by the way happens all the time, and I don't know if it's because I'm young and I'm a female or what, but like people just love telling me what to do, what to do. And I want to remain teachable and green and humble and open and also trust my gut. If someone doesn't have what I want, I am not going to take their advice to the same level of heart as someone who I look up to or is out in the arena with me, right? Like putting themselves out there, all that stuff.

That's great advice. I mean, like, yeah, don't, don't take too much of— don't take too much advice from people who aren't in the arena. And definitely don't take the criticism. I love that.

And it's hard on the internet when people behind a screen can just tear you to pieces. And that is something that I have had an aversion to for a long time. And I'm really working to say, hey, what you think of me isn't going to change my foundation of self, right? Like getting compliments, getting validation feels good. Getting criticized doesn't feel good. And also my foundation of self needs to be solid. Before I put myself in the arena. And for me, that required a lot of internal work. Therapist— super helpful. You know, other modalities of not like self-help per se, but just doing the work. Like as I shared with you, I recently went through this really long application process and put myself out there. And they just kept saying to me verbatim, "You're really vulnerable, but you also seem confident. How are both of those coexisting?" And what I said to them, which was kind of harsh, was like, listen, at the end of the day, I'm not going to change myself. I'm not going to trade my authenticity for your approval. If y'all don't want to enlist me for this thing, my self-worth isn't going to take a hit. All I can do is show up and be myself. And if that vibes with what you're looking for, awesome. And if it doesn't, that's okay too. Because like I'm a whole ass person. And I think that work is hard and has a lot of tears involved. And is worth it. It's the most important work you'll ever do.

And what a great way to close the door on somebody asking you, you know, actually kind of trying to put you in the corner and poke you a little bit, right?

Well, it's like, yeah, like, well, you know, how are you going to feel if you don't get this opportunity? And it's like, will it sting? Yeah. Will I be okay? Also, yeah. Have I been through way worse? 100%. I've made it through 100% of my bad days. I think I'm going to be okay.

Yeah, that's funny. Rejection is never easy. And, you know, and I think, you know, rejection from a random person on the internet, if that can sting you, um, if you get involved in a process like at a job approval process or a relationship process and you get to the end of it and it, and it breaks, right? You don't get what you want. You don't get what you had. You start to imagine what the outcome is, right? You start to imagine. So for you, you go through this you know, you're going through this selection process and you're imagining, oh, I get through it and then this, what is it like when I'm there? And all of a sudden they just go, boink, we don't want you.

Right. And that happens probably most commonly in relationships and relationships.

So yeah. How do people handle it? Like not well or all of all? Well, all the above. Yeah. All the above.

I always say like not grace, like I'd never have handled things gracefully per se. But I, at least in recent years, maybe the last decade, it's been authentically. And so if I'm feeling pain, feel the pain and show up for it. Don't turn the other way or try to minimize it or say it's not that bad. Like, oh, I went through a breakup, but I wasn't married with kids, so I shouldn't complain. That's some bullshit. Like, pain is real. Pain is real. And so not minimizing my own emotional experience, I think, is huge. Huge. And then also—

Great.

Reminding yourself, yeah, reminding yourself that like pain is real and it's also unavoidable. And when we walk through it, we show ourselves our own resilience in a way that is powerful. I think most of my growth has likely occurred in deep pain, deep vulnerability, putting myself out there, getting rejected. And again, remembering— and rejected in any and all capacity. I mean, professionally, personally. You know, fill in the blanks. And the biggest piece to be aware of is what's the story I'm telling myself about this. So if you get broken up with and the first thought is, "I'm not enough," or "I'm too much," or "I'm unlovable," that core belief, conscious or not, embeds itself into your psyche. And then, we go through life with that core belief inadvertently looking for evidence to support it, whether that means getting into shitty relationships or only engaging with people who are unavailable so that when it doesn't work out, we say, "See, I'm unlovable." And if we can be aware of what our own shame narratives are and actively try to dispute them and look for ways that they're not true instead of only seeking out evidence to promote this like unhealthy, maladaptive schema, it changes everything. It changes the game. It changed my life, really.

We started, you know, I talked about the self-talk and being lucky enough to be— find myself in sales and to get so much pounded into your head about this kind of stuff, about rejection and everything. And I do think that, that it does have some good impacts. And I could see definitely doesn't mean you're going to be immune from this kind of behavior, which I think is so— you see it even in Friends. You see this be right where they're You can see the relationship's not going to work and you kind of know why, and it breaks up, and then you see the process. And so I think it is, you know, important to, to have the knowledge of what these— what it looks like, you know, what do these mental— what are these distortions that go on in the brain?

Yeah.

And how it affects our behavior. And I think a lot of this is even educate— like, for you, just sharing that with people could help somebody and go, shit, that's me.

Yeah, yeah. People sometimes are not aware of their own shame narratives until it's brought to their attention or asked, you know, like I'll straight up ask someone like, make— or like when I worked in treatment, it was Tuesday, we had 3 hours, 2 hours of group counseling every single day while they were in treatment for 28 days. And on Tuesdays, everyone would joke it was everyone's least favorite day of the week. And it was my favorite because it was Shame Tuesday. And the question, the question of the group process was, what are you ashamed of? Don't preface it with anything. Don't follow it up with anything. I'm looking for an I am statement. I am blank. I'm a failure. I'm broken. I'm a chronic relapser. I mean, fill in the blank, and then we're gonna deconstruct it. We're gonna process it because shame cannot exist with connection and like shedding light on it. Shame exists in the darkness and keeps us quiet, and then it grows and grows and grows and grows and eats away at us. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's like tons of research to support this. Shame is at the core of literally everything that keeps us stagnant, and sometimes we've been shamed throughout our lives, we were conditioned to feel shame, maybe from our parents, etc. And a lot of times we just cop these shame narratives through our own experiences and we don't even know that we're doing it. And so again, that nonjudgmental awareness is huge.

Shame is the black mold of your brain.

Literally, literally.

Get some Clorox in there, get some sunshine, pull that sucker out, drag it.

Talk about it.

And put it out there in the— and let's all see.

One thing that unites us all, it's that we all have shame. And that's why, like, you know, public speaking-wise, I love talking about that stuff. I want to disturb the comforted and comfort the disturbed so that I can— it's just like, yes, I want to be a— I want to disrupt that shit.

Oh, get everybody squirming in their seats.

Yes. I love training. Like, if I'm training a team of clinicians at a company and they think I'm going to be training them on like tips and tricks with your patients, but really it's just like, nope, let's put the focus on you and what you need to deal with. It's the best.

Oh, I love that. They're thinking they're getting their notes out and all of a sudden it's like, let's hold them— pull your makeup mirror out of your purse, boys and girls, because we're—

it's like we're human too, but we can't transmit what we don't have. And so if you are living a double life of like, I'm a great therapist but my life is always in shambles because I won't do work on myself, like That translates.

Oh, closing thoughts, Hannah Rose.

I just get so fired up about all these things. I'm so glad you asked me here.

Yeah. How about any thoughts to wrap it up? We got to— we're, we're a little bit over my 30. I got to get better at my time management. I am.

I just keep going. I'm shameful. No, here's my ending thoughts. Guilt is actually healthy and it's— I feel badly about this. Shame is the internalization of guilt and saying, I am bad because of this. If we can identify the two and notice when it comes up, our whole life will change.

That's it. Miss Hannah Rose, thank you so much for sharing. Great to meet you. You are— I can feel your energy all the way down here. Even though I'm in Georgia, I can feel your energy. I'm sure everybody else can. Best of luck to you on your, your selection process and your journey that you're taking. I want— I'm going to follow along. I want to hear more. I'll stay in touch.

Thank you.

Thanks everybody for listening, and, uh, please do kind of— I don't know if there's a follow button or a like button or something, but, uh, for sure on, on LinkedIn you can share this on LinkedIn. If you're watching on LinkedIn, make a comment. YouTube, share it, all that good stuff. I've also got the JAR podcast, um, The Jar Podcast Live, where I interview real life— real— I don't have my jar anymore, I put it in the truck, but I've got a jar full of questions and people reach in and it's real human stuff. It's exciting. I wish I would have had Hannah on, it would have been awesome. Thanks everybody and be good.

Yay!

See if I can find my— see if I can find the exit button. We're trying to end it, we're going to end it soon.