Bulls, Bears And Bows With Jaden Bales | Eastmans' Life of A Bowhunter Podcast #30

Hey, what's happening, guys? So I've got a guest host today on ebj. Life of a bow hunter. Dan and I were busy, so I asked Jaden Bales to step in on the podcast. So Jaden's a super knowledgeable bow hunter and just an absolute go getter. And he's in the folds over there at Eastman, so it made for the perfect guest host today. So, yeah, I appreciate Jaden taking the time and being on. You can check them out on social media. Also, he runs the Wyoming Wildlife Federation Instagram page as well. And those guys are doing a raffle right now. So you'll hear us talk about that for statewide tag. And that can be deer, elk or pronghorn. So pretty cool stuff there. So check them out there. We'll get into the podcast. I just want to thank a couple sponsors. I want to thank Eberly stock. So I've been using the Everly stock for the last handful of years, and they build a durable pack at a great price point that'll fit your needs for any type of hunt that you like to do. So a lot of guys like the mainframe with the Vapor series pack. It comes in pretty light, it's a minimalist setup, but really packs the weight well. You can get a 2500, 5000 or 7500 cubic bag for that. I really like the Kyte 4800 is a great pack for me. Also, I like the Kite Day pack. I use that. And I also like the Destroyer for Expedition style packs. It's just got a tubular bag on it that really stacks the weight upright and sits on my back. Right. So you can check that out. And thanks to those guys and their support of the podcast, you can also check out G5 arrows. So G5 is not new to archery, but they have a couple lines of arrows that they came out with, and they really put a lot of time and effort into these arrows. So I'm shooting the mark. It's a 5 millimeter arrow. Great components on the back end. On the. On the front end, they've got an outsert and then a ballistic collar that covers the connection between the arrow and the outsert. They come in at a perfect weight. For me, they weigh right around 450 by the time I have them all built up with a 125 head. And yeah, they've got a carbon fiber weave, so a really strong arrow. Man, I've been shooting these arrows now for a handful of months. Gonna shoot them for this season. I actually haven't lost an arrow yet or haven't broken arrow yet. So, yeah, they're gonna hold up really well and definitely gonna be a good shooting arrow for this season. So check those guys out over at G5. Check out everything that we're doing. Dan will be back on next week. We have a really good episode next week all about elk hunting, so. So yeah, we'll have a couple in the fold for that. You can check out the Elk Collective. We're putting new content on there. In fact, I was just over at the office and recorded a bunch for that. And also the mule deer course. Mule Deer Collective rebranded. We're getting some more guys in the folds. We're adding more content to it. Really proud. As you know, it's everything I know about mule deer hunting. So if you have a mule deer hunt coming up, you're sure to shorten your learning curve. I think the price point is 100 bucks a year or 10 bucks a month, something like that. And, man, I mean, you're just gonna shorten your learning curve for these mule deer hunts in all different habitats, all different seasons and weapons. So check that out over at the mule deer course. You can use the promo Brian MDC, and then that'll save you like 10% on that deal. So check that out. Check out our YouTube. I just saw the cut of Dan's elk hunt last year. Is incredible. So pumped to see that come out this season. I also have my, like, a late season archery deer hunt. I saw the edit on that. I'm really proud of how that came out. That'll come out this season. So a bunch of good stuff. You can check us out. Just search YouTube, Eastman's Hunting TV, or beyond the grid and that'll pop up. And, man, with that, let's get into this podcast. Guest host Jaden Bales. Thanks to him for sitting in on the EBJ podcast. And yeah, I hope you guys enjoy. It's a great conversation. We talk over bears and elk hunting and a bunch of great subject matter. So I'm your host Brian Barney Eastman's bow hunting journal, Life of a bow hunter. And here we go. Dude, the conversations with you are always the best. So, yeah, happy to have you on the podcast anytime and happy to catch up for sure. So, man, you've been busy. That Wyoming Wildlife Federation, you guys have like a governor tag coming up or something, right?

Yeah, man, we've been trying to let people know about this. You know, there's governor tags and commissioners tags. Both of them are available for basically hunting anywhere in the state. And our commissioner's tag this year is for $50 a ticket. And it's the one that we do to try to, like, allow anybody to try to get this, like, haunt of a lifetime. So, like I said, been trying to spread the good word. I was just hanging out with Scott Reekers last weekend at Mule Deer Days in Rock Springs, trying to tell people about it and make sure people know this is an opportunity that just average folks can win. I love going on these hunts when we give them away because, like, they're just such a fun hunt. I've actually guided got into guiding because I like going on so much that I'm like, how can I get on more of these? So, yeah, it's awesome. It lets folks basically just choose any deer, elk, or pronghorn hunt in the state of Wyoming to go on, and you skip to the front line. You don't lose your points. And it's like I said, it's a blast. So if anyone wants to check out wyomingwildlife.org we've got a big thing right on the front homepage to get more information on that.

Oh, right on. So that's where I get tickets and I don't have to be a Wyoming resident or anything.

Jaden, Correct. Yeah. You just buy your $50 ticket or as many of them as you want. I've got them capped at 1,000. We're just under 500 sold so far, and that ends at the end of this month. But, yeah, basically, like, you don't lose points, you don't like. It doesn't penalize you in any way. You can actually still draw if you're in the drawing. In Wyoming, you can have two tags in your pocket in a year, which is kind of crazy. And all you got to do is, if you do get selected, you have to purchase the license from Game and Fish.

So. Okay. And probably the regular. The regular tag, not the special one.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

The cheaper one of the two, for sure.

Okay. Man, what an awesome raffle you guys are doing. And $50 a ticket. Yeah. If I could write the check for the other 500, I think I would do so to be able to hunt the state. But that adds up to probably more in my. More than I have in my checking account. But what great odds. Capped at a thousand. The only tough decision would be, like, which one would I choose? You know, it's like, I love to hunt mule deer and some great mule deer tags, but, boy, like, some big elk, too. And I don't think too many people are Going to pick the pronghorn, even though you guys do have some awesome pronghorn there.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, one of the things I keep talking about is like, because you got a daydream, right? Like, who knows if you ever stumble onto one? But I always think, like, man, I would spend all summer scouting my butt off for. For deer. And then, you know, you can kind of bounce around and then you can turn in your. Your voucher. It just has to be before the hunt starts. Oh, sorry about that. You just have to turn in your voucher before the hunt starts. So basically, you could go scout and like, go learn some country like that you wouldn't have otherwise spent time in. And I've always figured it'd be fun to go out in some of these, like, low country deer spots and, and just go, like, see what's out there. And then, you know, if you find a buck that you want to chase with your bow in September, like, cash that sucker in for that unit. But yeah, it just, like I said it would give you so many options to go learn places. You just don't normally get a chance to go run around it. And I hope that one day, one day I'll get one in my pocket.

We'll see. Man, what a cheat code. Yeah. That you could be able to scout all summer and see what you turn up. Yeah, it'd be a really tough decision for sure. And. And you've done a bit of, like, you talked about that guiding, like you've done a bit of scouting for the governor's tag or the statewide deer tag, right?

Yeah, yeah, I got to do a little bit of that last fall, especially for like a governor's tag. And those were all like, rut hunts. And for the majority of folks who have these licenses, they're going to be out there chasing them with a rifle, which, like, duh. Most people are going to want to maximize their opportunity at the, you know, killing something really special. But it was really cool just to be able to be out there looking for guys to like, take home like a governor's tag quality buck. You just don't get that opportunity. And like, you're looking at like 180 inch deer going like, I don't think that's big enough for like what this person's looking for. And that's a weird thing, right. Where the rest of us, you know, on a year to year basis, like a 180 inch buck is like, really special. So, no, it's fun to be able to get out there on these kinds of hunts and have that opportunity.

How cool. So what's the website again where I.

Can put in wyomingwildlife.org okay, cool.

Yeah, right on. Well, hopefully you guys pick me out of the hat. That would sure be nice. I'd love to have the tough decision of which one I choose or where I'd hunt it. It'd be pretty wild to be able to look over the whole state like that. So. Yeah, I'd probably have to quit my job for summer too.

That's exactly right.

Man.

That's the one thing we talk about is like there's so many options and man, even just to make good on the best hunts in the state takes a lot of time. And I think that that's the one thing that everyone has the same amount of. Right. Like nobody has more than anybody else at any point in their life. So it's like, uh, the people who can give the most time to these hunts are the ones who make the most out of them. Um, like I said, I've been guiding on a couple of commissioners tag, governor's tag type hunts. And it's still like, it's still hunting, man. You still gotta like cover the numbers and still gotta look over a ton of critters before you really find one that is that next level caliber. Um, so yeah, but that, that's what makes it fun, right? It's not like if you wanted to go out and give it the same or and give it like lower effort, you know, you only had five days or whatever to get out there and do it. You could probably find a quality animal. But it's like when you're trying to find that next level animal, you got to give it the next level effort. Doesn't matter what tag you have. That's still pretty cool.

Yeah. Well, I think you're onto something. It does seem like especially as tags get tougher to come by, like you really can treat any hunt in any tag out west that way. And it's like the more time and effort you put into it, the more you're going to be able to tell what type of bucks are in there, type of bulls are in, know what to shoot for. And then, you know, it's like hunting days to make such a difference, just the time you can spend in a unit. And so I think it's like any of these tags nowadays. And you know, I get, you know, we're also pressed for time. We all, you know, have work and responsibilities. And then these hunts come up and you know, to be honest, like, man, I Just I want to put more effort into the tags that I draw, whether that's deer, whether that's elk, and kind of get back to my roots, like scouting really hard and making sure I'm scouting like every unit that I draw, you know, spending the time like, you know, I really am good at E Scouting, but it is like not watching TV in the evenings, like really spending my time on Google Earth and on X to when I show up in a unit, I just know it like the back of my hand. And then on my hunt days as well, it's like, you know, long durations. It seems like I get less and less effective as the hunt goes on. Just you get worn down, you put on miles, you get beat down mentally. And like, part of the beautiful thing in Montana is we have like a six week bow season so I can come home, reset, have normal dinner, spend time with the family, and then take off on another three, four, five day hunt. And so like when I'm planning my hunt days, I want to plan like a solid five to seven day, but then be able to come home and reset and maybe go back. And I think it's going to make like a big difference in the quality just on any of these tags, even these easy to draw tags.

Man, it sure seems like that. And I drank the Kool aid right when I got to Wyoming. And just for those who don't know, I kind of grew up in northeast Oregon. And when I got here I was like, oh, I got to go do the famous stuff, right? The western Wyoming, like high country, yada, yada. But I spent a couple of, I did a couple of scout trips, found a buck I really wanted to chase and then had like a nine day archery hunt that I wanted to dedicate towards that buck. And you know, maybe I don't have the skill set or what, but like I realized nine days isn't enough for me to get my target buck. And so then I started hunting a lot closer to home. And while, you know, the average quality outside of western Wyoming of deer is lower, I found that I was actually able to find deer that I could get on and kill because I could go before and after work or I could go, you know, just like for a quick rip when otherwise it was, you know, a four or five hour drive to get into the trailhead, let alone the hike in. So yeah, man, I just totally have altered my application strategy and I've actually stopped trying to go to as many, like not be as non resident hunter in as many states now I'm still gaining points and stuff like that in these other states. But it's like, oh, I don't think I'm, you know, unless I can, like you say, dedicate some time to scouting it. Like I'm not going to stretch myself too thin because then you do too many things half heartedly and none of them turn out like the way you want. Yeah, that's so it, man.

And Montana, you know, so fortunate for the long season. And then, you know, I know it so well. Like my knowledge base is pretty high, but in the same breath, like I shoot for a good six point every year and there's a lot of years where I have 20 hunting days into killing a big six point. So if I draw that out of state, like there's no way I'm going to be able to spend the time. And I was talking to Jason Matt Sanger, who drew a New Mexico tag last year. And so Montana, he knows it like the back of his hand, always spends a bunch of hunting days. Like he killed that 400 inch bull a couple of years back, always killing great bulls. So he's got these spots dialed but he drew this good New Mexico tag. And so right in the heart of the season, he had to leave Montana, go down to New Mexico, start from scratch. And he killed a bull down there, you know, wasn't a giant bowler, just like a good representation. But he said like, never again. I will never during Montana when it gets good. And so, yeah, there's definitely something to that. And we do, you know, I've hunted local the last couple of years for elk and it is like, gosh, I can just scout it better. I can spend mornings and evenings better and I live in a good spot. I'm fortunate for that. And not everybody can do this, but boy, less travel time, you can just scout it harder, hunt it mornings and evenings, you can just get to it easier and then like knowledge base, just more days in there, you know. So yeah, I'm with you. I think you're onto something for sure.

Oh, thanks. Yeah, it was one of the things like I grew up in one of the like trophy units in eastern Oregon and God, I just remember everybody who was like waiting 15 to 20 years to go hunt these like trophy elk units would show up and then just be like disappointed every time because they like you're saying you had to like learn the unit over again. And they usually lived in Portland so they had a five hour drive to get there.

And.

And yeah, it just seems to be the constant theme. I thought it was a little bit unique to that area. Like, you know, I got the locals, the locals mentality of being like, wow, it's just not that good, you know. But then you find out like all of these hunts across the west that are the top tier hunts, just they deserve a lot more attention and skill and knowledge than I think we try to give them on paper.

Yeah, boy, that's the truth. We're always like trying to draw one of these great tags. But yeah, I think ultimately it always comes down to the hunting skill set time in a unit. And just because you draw a good tag doesn't mean you're going to kill a monster. Like, I think you have to really build that hunting skill set and that knowledge for years to, to be able to go into one of those good units and expect to harvest, you know, a real good quality or next level animal. So yeah, it isn't easy. You draw a good tag that by no means guarantees you like a great animal.

Oh, absolutely. And that's what happened. I drew a pretty good tag here in Wyoming and it was pretty close to my house, but I drew a pretty good bull elk tag here. And I was able to put in a ton of days. Threw out a bunch of cameras, looked over. I think going into season I had looked at like 77 or 78 bowls and hadn't found one that was like truly like next level. There's a bunch of like really good ones. But I hadn't found that, that something with wow factor. And I was just like, I know there's one out here, you know, but then you look at the non resident odds and even the residents like they're not good for drawing this license I had and I'm like, man, someone who burned 14 years of preference points or whatever, who had these grand, grandiose visions of rolling out and shooting a 350 bull, they're going to be so bummed when they roll out here and go look over SP80 bulls and not find anything over 320 or 330 and. But yeah, again, I just think that, you know, the, at the end of the day, like nature doesn't owe you anything. Like you just got to go out and earn it. And you know what, at some level, like, I got a little distracted this summer, I admit, like scouting some deer. And I maybe didn't put in like next level effort for elk in order to find that one 350 bull that was in the unit. But that was okay by me. I, I had a good hunt and I took a Good bull. And I was. I was happy with that, but at the same time, I didn't have these grandiose visions of being, like, oh, 350 or bust. I think that's where guys get themselves all bent out of shape.

Yeah. Well, I think you got the most out of that hunt. Seems like you spent a lot of time scouting and then seems like you were really immersed in elk and got hooked. It, like, chasing him with a. With a bow in that unit. It looks like he had a ton of fun on that hunt, man. And it you're expect expectations, they do have to meet your opportunities somewhere, you know, so when you scout over 77 bulls and you look at the top end, like, if you're looking for a 350 or a 375, like, you know, yeah, he may exist in that unit, but you might never see him. And you might waste, like, a really good opportunity to have, like, this awesome hunt of chasing good bulls around rather than. Than being, like, just more grounded and knowing, like, what the top end is in there and what you can experience and then getting after it and then being able to kill a bull. Man, it was awesome.

Yeah, thanks. It was super fun, too, because the way that this unit played out there was like, you could go up into the timber, the classic stuff. It's not super steep. It's pretty rolly. Some marshy creeks and bottoms and parks and stuff. And it's like kind of just like what you in Aspen's the classic stuff. But I was like, man, I know if I get into a bugling bowl and I haven't looked at him yet, and he comes through the timber and he's ripping bugles all the way in, I'm just not going to have any sort of restraint. So I, like. I was like, okay, I'm going to get eyes on every bull before I go after him. And therefore, I, like, went to the deserty stuff, the junipers and sagebrush and, like, just like the rolling, you know, kind of dry desert country. And that's where I spent the majority of my time, I think, really, I was only up in the timber, like, one or two days out of 15 or 16. I was hunting, and, gosh, it was fun because then you got to let your optics do the walking. You didn't have to rely on bulls to bugle in order to be in elk. And also I was able to find them in places where it was, like, juniper country, and you can glass them up, get in close, and you'd still be in bugles and calls and, like, the elk would just fire themselves up in this unit, and it was really fun. And the other piece of it, like, which we already talked about, I was doing this, like, before and after work. Most of the time after work, I had, like, a handful of glassing knobs. And I just. Especially in the rut, man, when there's elk up and down all day long, like, kind of just moving about, I could go hit a couple of glassing knobs just after work and find out which elk I wanted to hit and play with that evening. And then I'd try to, you know, play the chess game. You, like, get in close, you make sure your wind is right. And usually in the evenings, I was just, like, waiting until the thermals would pull downhill. And wait until. Because they always sit in that washing machine, you know, just right on the backside where the thermals are pulling up and the directionals are coming down at the same time. And so I just would wait until directionals and thermals were in agreement. And I think playing that a little bit more patient than I have in the past, like, put me right in close. And it felt like every time I went out, I could kill an elk if I wanted to. And I'd never felt that before, just because I was able to, you know, be a little bit more selective about when. When you go or when you don't go. I think that that's one of the things I hope to implement that, like, more in these general hunts, like, finding areas where you can glass and, like, finding areas where you sit back and wait to make the play until the right time. Because up until just, you know, last year and the last couple of years, it's been like, oh, you see an elk or you hear an elk, you go back like, let's go get them right now. And I've noticed, like, at least just from the mistakes I've made, right now isn't always the best time to go. Go get them killed. And I know that seems to be a common thread with how you. You tend to hunt out, because even. Even in some of the, you know, more timbered and. And thicker country.

Dude, it's so smart. Yeah. It's such great strategy. Yeah.

Yeah.

It's like you taking a page out of my book for sure. That's like. It's like a lot of how I hunt them and of learn, like, you know, it's nice to be able to identify them and chase the larger bulls and not waste your time on the satellite bowls or a smaller bull that's bugling like to be able to get eyes on them or you know, there's times where I am chasing bugles and you know, you can kind of tell size by bugle or at least age a lot of times. But yeah, just really waiting for your moment to go all in or kind of like taking what the elk will give you. And when they get into that thick timber, when they get into that spot, bad wind, yeah, just holding up. And like, you know, the key to killing elk is like being in Delk. But if you go spook every elk out of the country, like you don't have any elk to hunt in the evening when the thermals do start coming down. But if you play it more patient and kind of trail them in the morning and just like, oh, it's not quite right, or keep your eyes on them and put them to bed in the morning, you know, then you have a play in the evening when they come out. And I love like that strategy you were using of those evening thermals. You can just actually count on the wind and take that out of the equation. It just pulls downhill. And so when you know where that bull is, it's like that's definitely an all in moment. That last hour, a light or sometimes even a little bit longer if you're on the shaded part of the hillside. But such a great strategy, man. And like you said, it's just as thrilling and as exciting like you know, maybe calling in a bull. Having, having him come in screaming is like quite possibly like the most exciting or thrill and elk. But man, you are in the rut and hearing them bugle around you and making moves and then it's just elk being elk. Like they're just running and they're feeding and they're, they're not coming in on high alert. Like they come in on a call and then like you say, like you don't need to bugle to fire them up. Like they rut whether you're there or not. And so they're fired up and you'll hear hundreds of bugles on the really good nights, you know, and you never make a sound. But being immersed into them and playing that game, I, I can see why it fits your personality and like why fits like that style of hunting like really spoke to you and, and I definitely think you'll be able to use it moving forward in general areas or wherever you're hunting elk and even if there is a bit more cover, just like knowing that strategy now I think will really help you.

Thanks. Yeah, I think so too. And you Know, it happened just even in general units. I think this is one of the things that people and, you know, guys like you and my friend Cody Rich and others have shown is like, it doesn't just happen like that in these specialty dry areas. It just seems like you might have to work a little harder to get into the elk or to unpressured elk in these general draw areas or easier dry areas. Um, but gosh, like you're saying like a couple of years ago we were, we got caught on this sagebrush slope with elk like coming out feeding from like an aspen pocket. And so we just like sat down in the sage brush and there was no cover around us. And so we just like, well, let's just see what happens. And then that was like at 3:30 in the, in the afternoon. And then all of a sudden the cows start chirping. And then like a little bull fires off. And then here pretty quick a big bull fires off up canyon. And then you just get to sit and watch them all. Like you said, like, they're gonna run, they're gonna do all this stuff whether you're there or not and whether you're making noise or not. But I think, and I get into this habit all the time is like, I like hearing myself make noise and I like hearing them like, respond. But gosh, that gives up your, that gives up your position. Like, I mean, that gives, that gives away the ghosts like before. It's necessary sometimes. And it's been fun to learn that. I think looking forward to. It's like I'm going to be edging towards areas maybe with fewer elk numbers, but with more opportunity to kind of see where they come in and going or make those kind of patient plays. A friend of mine was like, wanting to help me on a packout last year. He was like on my packout call and I was texting him. He'd never been around a big game animal getting killed yet. And so he was just kind of like, antsy to be around the process, right? And so I texted him one morning right at first light. And I'm like, hey, found the elk. And he's like, awesome. Let me know when this like, goes down. And I'm like, put your count like, you know, mark your Timer for like 6pm and it's like 6am or whatever. And he's like, what? Like, you're gonna take all day? I was like, dude, this is a, this is a chess, not checkers game. And it took me a while to like, again, like, I think I don't know about you, Brian, but it feels like most of these lessons come from failing. Like, come from doing it wrong. And we. And I keep doing it wrong, too. Like, I freaking went on in on this bear couple a couple weeks ago now, when or 10 days ago now, when I knew that the wind wasn't quite right and I thought I could get away with it and sure enough blew him out. Like, it just. Like it happens over and over again. And I don't know, hopefully one of these days I'll stop making myself learned this lesson. But, yeah, at least for me, it's always stuck by messing it up myself more than even being told.

So true, man. It's like, failure's the best teacher, you know? Yeah. And you have to make those mistakes, and I'm like, you. I, like, have to make them over and over again. Like, I have to make them multiple times before I finally, like, learn and really believe in what I've learned. But, yeah, man, I've tried to cheat the wind so many times. I remember on elk, I was like, well, I, you know, a couple instances, but, you know, I can remember a couple elk where it's. It's blowing, like, over the hill, like, towards the elk of where I want to make the play, but they're so in a perfect spot that I think I can cheat it or the wind's gonna blow over them, and I go over there, and then I blow them up. And I had to make that mistake, like, multiple times before I finally learned. So I'm the same way. And you. You always think, oh, maybe it'll be okay, or maybe it'll work. And anytime it's like maybe or hopefully it'll work, it, like, never does. It always blows up on you. But once you learn that lesson enough, then you start to really believe in it, and then you don't make that mistake as often or as much. And I. I went on a big go on a bear on Saturday. Backpacked into a spot, had my overnight bag, but really just looking to hunt it hard for a day. And I. I got in there before light. Did, like, three, four hours to get in there. Master vantage point. I knew I was in a good spot, and I sat there hours. I didn't see a bear, but I didn't want to move because I could just see so much. And sure enough, like, this great big boar came out, and he came out in this perfect park, and he was, like, about an hour away from me. I thought, great, okay, there's a spot where I can close the distance and I can get in there and you know, this one, I actually played it perfect. He was like in a perfect spot. So I motor down to where he's at and I'm, I've got a vantage point like across the draw. That's going to be 500 yards with a good win where I can relocate him or if he goes in the timber and beds, I can wait there for him. And it's a basin with a couple timber patches, but it's like he shouldn't leave this area and he's on the greenest slope there is in there. And so I motored down there, I got down there in 40 minutes or 45 minutes, got the vantage point across and like I can't see him. And so it's like, oh, it's fine. It's early in the day, it's 3:15, like he's going to come back out and I'm going to kill this bear. The wind's perfect today. I've got an east wind, I've got the perfect vantage point. It was just like almost too good to be true. And I sat there for five and a half hours and that bear never showed himself. And so like all I had was like a big four hour hike out and with my headlamp out of there or whatever. But you know, it's just one of those instances, even when you play it right, like sometimes you still don't get them. You know, they, they just have a knack for making the right moves. But yeah, I know what you mean. Those failures, that's how I learn as well. And you almost have to like send it or go for it or make those mistakes to learn from it. That's like elk. You don't just want to sit back and like play the what if game or do this. Like you almost got to just go make a play and then you make a mistake and you bust them and you're like, okay, well I won't do that next time. And that like factors into like honing your hunting instincts and your decision making ability. And so, you know, the next time you're faced with a decision to go, you're kind of like, well, I've done that before and that didn't work. I'm not going to do that again. So, you know, you kind of just come up with a different playbook or whatever. And I think that that's what it's all about. It's just like being a student of the game and failing a bunch, you know, that's like, that's what I do as well.

No, that's. That's super encouraging, man. The other thing is. Okay, so this is a question for you, because I found this with elk, and then I did it with this bear a couple weeks, 10 days ago. Are you trying to make a move when they're in thick timber? You're like, okay, they're in this timber pocket or this timber slope, and I know roughly where they're at, but I can't get eyes on them specifically. Are you going to try to slip in there still with your bow and try to make it go of it? Are you going to wait for them to try to feed out into a park or a sagebrush slope or something to give themselves or to give you a visual?

Yeah, almost. I mean, 99% of the time, I want them in their feeding features. So if they disappear in that timber, they're going to go to bed, and I'm going to try to predict where they're going to come out from. And so I'm either going to keep on the vantage point or I'm going to try to stage closer where it'll take me less time to get to him. And so I'm looking for a vantage point to stage. Sometimes I'll even stage on the edge of the park that I think he's going to come out in, and then I wait for him to come back out. So, no, I almost never chase him into that timber. Like elk, I'll chase into the timber a bit when they're on their feet still, but it's only because I can hear them bugle and kind of echo, locate them and kind of work my way into the herd that way. But yeah, with mule deer, with, with, with bears and with elk. Like, I want to hunt them when I can get eyes on them in their feeding feature, you know, unless I know exactly where he's at. Like, I can see that bear bedded on the edge of the timber, and I know he's only 25 yards in and I can see a play. But 99 of the time, I want them back in the park and back in the meadow, back in a spot where I can get eyes on them and then make a play for me with the butler.

Oh, that makes more sense because I kept. I, like, like, if you couldn't tell already, I blew this bear out because I went in when he was he, you know, maybe 50, 60 yards in the timber, but I was like, he's close. Maybe you'll feed, you know, And I just got too close and blew him out. And I kept going like, God, how are these guys doing this if. If they. How are they getting in the tip? And the answer is, you're not. You just gotta be a little more patient.

Yeah. Yep.

There's no like special sauce.

Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's a lot of patience. Like I say, I sat on that bear. I was just sure he was there. And I could see the whole basin and I could see the green park he was feeding in. And he was on the grass, he wasn't moving. And I waited for five and a half hours. Like I about went insane. Like, five and a half hours is a long time to sit in one spot. But I just wait till they get back in that park or back in that meadow. I play it real patient that way. And. And so when they disappear in the tim, I may stage closer to him, but I'm always trying to keep my wind dry. And like this one laid out perfectly because, you know, I was able to close a couple miles or a mile of distance and then set up where I was 500 yards across from the basin. So my wind was good. And then when he came back out, it took me. It would have taken me about 15 or 20 minutes to make it there. So like when he came back out in the park or if he was to come back out in the park, which normally does happen, like he's going to come back out in the evening or in the afternoon. Like a lot of times those bears, they'll just go in and they'll take like an hour nap or a two hour nap and they'll come back into the park or they'll work their way through and come out into a different park. That's maybe over just a little bit. And then I'm in striking distance. They're in the opening. That's when I make my play or make my move. So yeah, that's how I kind of play them in. In elk, I play similar. Like I want to hunt them in their feeding feature. Like when they come out to feed. Kind of like you were hunting them the evening they were coming out of the COVID They weren't bedded, they were on their feet and they were coming into those meadows. You knew you had that good downhill wind. And then when you got in close, you can kind of like take what they give you. You're like keeping an eye on the cows and on the bull. You can see when their heads down feeding. You can see when their heads up alert. They're looking for danger. You know, when you're exposed like when you have undulation or topography that hides your approach, you can just walk, you know, and get closer and close the distance. But once you get in the open, even open timber, sometimes the shadows you can continue to move. But a lot of times you get stuck and you're stuck, you know, 70 yards away from a hundred yards, away from them, even 150 yards. And you just know that if I keep moving, I'm going to blow them up. And so you like have to hold up there and just like let the situation develop or find a different approach that'll put you closer to them. But that's, that's how I'm playing them most of time. And bears, you can get like a little bit more aggressive. Like they're near sighted and they're usually. It's not a herd of bears, it's just one of them. You know it and at least you know the way, you know, unless it's a sow and a cub, which you're not stalking anyways. But with just one of them, like they put their head down and you can actually stalk them in the wide open and just move and then you just freeze every time they pick their head up and they never really pick you out. Like they can see movement. They'll spook from like sounds or if you break a branch and definitely spook from smell. But yeah, they're kind of near sighted and so I can get away with a lot more on a bear than I can an else.

So I just stalked this bear. Okay, back a little bit. So I ended up killing this bear that I was going after last night.

Oh, right on, dude. Congratulations.

Thank you. I had the classic like bear ground shrinkage. It hadn't happened to me yet. I'd killed a handful of bears, but this one was significantly smaller than I anticipated, which was fine. He's gonna make an awesome rug and he's, he's got great meat for the freezer. But this was. So I'd heard you saying this about stalking bears with your bow. And I tested it out and it freaking works. It's like this bear was feeding, his head was down, and I'd move a little bit and then his head would pop up and I would just hold my bow, trying to make it break up my outline a little bit in front of me and stop and just don't move. He would stare for a sec, be like, that doesn't look like what I remember, but not sure. Then you go back to feeding and it's like, okay, well hop to the next boulder. And then, then I did that and I hopped to the next boulder and I did that all the way in from like 80 to 40 yards. And here's the, here's my confession, though. I shot him with my rifle yesterday, but I. Because the week prior it was still archery season here in Wyoming because we have a. An early archery segment of the bear season. I got there to that 40 yards and I ranged him. I thought I was good to go, and I just, I just released that shot and it was high. I think I, you know, ranged maybe a little behind him or what, and. And regardless, missed the shot with my bow. And then I shot him yesterday. And as we're looking at this bear, I freaking shot right through the top of his hide. There was a, there's like a gash right across the top. So, you know, it's one of those things. It feels like it's. It's just a game of inches. You know, you make an error off 2 or 3 yards, especially with my short draw, man, and it's just kind of unforgiving. But anyway, yeah, I was really happy to get that bear. I was, I was kind of after with my bow. So, yeah, he's in the cooler. I got to take care of him here pretty soon.

Dude, good work. Yeah, it happens to all of us. Those shots can just be off just a hair and, you know, bears are like, smaller than we think, too. Like, even big bears are smaller than we think. But yeah, there's just not a lot of room for error there. They're a fairly small target without the hair, so it's really easy to pull a shot 6 inches high or 7 inches high from where it needs to be. And like you say, just a game of inches, you know, like, man, you had them with your bow. It sounds like you made a good play and then finished them last night. And yeah, they're tough ones to judge. They don't have antlers on top of their heads. And you know, a lot of these bears can have like a good big bear shape to them. You know, the bellies filled out and he, like, he looks like a good bear. But yeah, there can definitely be some shrinkage on those things. But. But you know, like a, like a good bear. Like even, like we killed a good boar last year that was like aged over 10, like 12 years old or something. And it was a five and a half footer. And you know, his skull wasn't even that big. It was like probably under an 18 inch skull, you know, and sometimes they can just be tough to Tell when they have the right shape and the right size and the, those boars too. They have those pumpkin heads and that meat on their head as well. To where their heads the right like basketball shape where it's just like, man, it is. It's easy to fool a guy. You know, that's those, those next level bears. It takes genetics and age like anything like mule deer, elk or whatever. It takes the combination of both of them. But dude, good going. You got one down like really targeted bears this season and got one killed. So good on you, man.

Well, thank you. Yeah. One of the reasons I went early is because, you know, Wyoming's had a pretty nice winter and we actually have some really good melt off here locally where the canyons I like to hunt. They were open and had green grass like probably two weeks at least earlier than normal. So that was a cool opportunity. But I also, I have a spring bear tag where I grew up in eastern Oregon. So I'll get to go and chase another bear and maybe hopefully be a little more selective on this next go round. So I'm excited for that. Do you have any, do you have any hot tips for me on making sure that I, that I. That I don't have ground shrinkage on the next go around?

Yeah. So what was it a chocolate that you shot Jaden?

He was black. He was just jet black. Yeah.

Oh cool, man. They're just tough. It's like the more you look at, the better feel you get for them. Right. And so, so, you know, my tips for it are the mediums are the tough ones. Is it a medium small? Is it a medium large? You know, it's like that's a tough distinction to make on them. But when they're a large or a jumbo, there's like no doubt about it. You know it with the lumbering walk, you know it with the ears on the side of his head. Like I really like to look at them head on and what I do is I draw a line in between the ears and then I draw a line from the ears to the nose to the tip of the nose. And so, so like it forms a triangle when you're looking at them head on. And so you want like a right triangle. You want the distance between the ears to be the same distance to the tip of the nose. Boar is going to have that big forearms, big chest where you know a sow is going to look like more pear shaped and have the bigger rump on the back end. And you really want them filled out like, you know Bears have all kinds of genetics and some of them can be a bit longer. But, but for the most part a big bear is going to have like a giant belly that wants to drag on the grass or is like only a foot off the ground. Big shoulders that are going to be just as big, that big head, neck. So that's kind of what I'm looking for. And they just have like a lumber about them when you really see like the jumbos. And so like the tricky thing is going to be to hold off on the mediums. And the mediums are only, you know, the mediums are going to be like 5 foot or maybe even like 4, 8, 410 to about 5, 8, 5, 9. Like those are going to be your medium range. And then once they get to six foot, six and a half foot or some of them even get to seven, like they're just going to have that, that there's going to be no doubt about it when you see them. You're going to be convinced. So I think the trick is, is to hold off on those mediums and don't try to like convince yourself they're bigger than they are. If that makes sense. Sense.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean that's what happened to me is like I looked at this bear four different days in the spotting scope and he had all of the things that I. And I said, I think this is a medium sized bear. Like that's why I would tell people like when I was like this bear I'm going after, he's got this like white triangle on his chest, he's jet black and he's like a classic medium sized bear. And then you walk up and he's medium small and I'm like, oh, dang it. You know, so wait, wait for Jumbo.

Sounds like, yeah, yeah, I think that's it. Like all doubts will be out of your mind. But it's tough to pass those, you know, mediums, especially when they're good opportunities. It was like, you know, it's, I had a chocolate this year where it was just like, you know, is he a medium small? Is he a medium big? I can tell that he's a boar. Oh, he's walking right at me and it's like, oh, I really want to arrow one. But it's like, I know what that bear is like. I, you know, I would be fooling myself if I thought that was a big bear. You know, it's like. And so I had to just walk away from. It was like, oh no, I know that's not the one for me, like I'll find a better one, you know, I'll find a big one. Like I just got to keep after it. But yeah, it's, I think the distinction between those mediums, whether he's a medium small or a medium large is really tough. And, and usually like man, I mean bears aren't that big. Like there's a lot of years that I, you know, went out there and it was like any 5 foot plus bear with my bow is an accomplishment and a bear I want to shoot. And you know, I killed some boars that were in between five and five, six and then my line moved a little bit. Now I was like, okay, I want to find a 5 1/2 footer 18 inch skull. Like I'm happy with that boar. And a lot of times I have those bears aged and they can be 6, 7, 8 years old, like breeding type bears that, that are still only five and a half foot or five foot seven. But the, you know, nice big 18 inch skull, that was a really nice respectable bear that I was really happy to shoot. And even to this day, you know, just like you with your bear, if I walk up and he's 5 foot 6 and I misjudged him, I'm like still pretty psyched. I'm like, ah, it's a good boar. You know, like that was a fun encounter. Is like I'll be happy with that one. But nowadays I'm really looking for that jumbo size, that six foot plus just a bear that I'm really going to be psyched with. But for it's like just trusting your gut and looking over a lot of bears and then holding off on the mediums. Like I think that's the key.

How many bears do you think you'd see in a, in a spring? I mean this year I saw 5, 4 and I thought that was like a pretty good start. Turns out all of them were the same size. So because I thought I found the biggest one and I'm like, oh well, maybe not.

Yeah, they just don't get that big man. It's like it takes, you got to find the exception, not the rule, especially to find a big one. So throughout a season I would say like there has been seasons where, you know, there's one season where I saw like close to 50, which would be a phenomenal season. Now I'd say like I'm somewhere in between like probably 20 and 30 bears in a season is usually at the end of the year it shakes out where I see about one Per day. So I think I'm up to five so far for this year. And I probably have about five days in or something like that. So that's about where I'm at. And that isn't. I see a bear every day. That's like, okay, one day I might see three and then there's two days where I see zero, you know. So I think at the end of the year I probably average around 20. Now if it's a really good year, maybe 30. If it's a tough year, maybe in the teens or somewhere in there like throughout a season. But again, like, like our previous conversation, like I live in good bear country, so I hunt them. Like the best time to hunt a bear is in the evening and I can just go out after work. And I'm in bear country so I can get a bunch of days in while still working my full time job. And, and then weekends I'll do expedition style trips so I can fit a bunch of days in because I live real close to bear country country.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And if you're coming from back east or wherever, you know, you live in a city and you gotta go make a big trip of it. Gosh, it feels like it'd be very hard to, to get enough bears in because it like I stopped going because I realized it just wasn't seeing bears when it was crappy weather, for instance. Now like obviously if it like rains hard and then stops and it's sunny and then it rains hard, like maybe see some stuff there. But if it's just windy and crappy all day long, like I stopped going. But people who are making these like big trips out of it, it feels like they're at such a disadvantage because if it's crappy for three or four days out of your seven day trip, you're screwed. Like you just can't look over enough animals. Is that kind of what you've seen too is like the crappy weather is, is like not that good for, for bear hunting?

Yeah, definitely. We get to pick and choose our days. I think like the biggest thing is like letting the country and the grass right around us. So I've like hunted my butt off in the early season and turn up very few bears. And so I get a feeling for when the grass is right and when the country's right. And you can sure run into bears. Usually they're smaller sows until the country really gets right. So that area where I went on that big bore the other day, the country's finally Right. I've been hunting it for, you know, about a week and a half, two weeks now. It's been really good in there, been turning up bears. But my country right around my house is just now turning on. Like I finally saw the green tent today. It's finally go time like around here. So I think my biggest thing is like going too early now as far as weather. Like, yeah, if it's going to snow and rain all day, like I actually see them like I see them in those days and I'll catch them like middle of the day. So like if it's early season and it's raining or whatever, like I'm not going to go out if it's just pouring all day long or a snowstorm. But if it's like just cloudy and overcast and it storms for a little bit and clears for a little bit, storms for little bit, like I'll go out. And most of the time those days I'll see him like towards the middle of the day, not just in the evening, by the evening, you know, it just doesn't seem like you have this bear time where the last two hours of light, like that's when you see him. And then it just changes throughout, throughout the season. Like in the early season. Yeah, some sunshine is nice. Middle of the day is good. And then as it gets towards the end of the season, it's hot and sunny, you know, and then I won't see him in the middle of the day at all. It's only that last two hours of light that I'll see him. As I'm into this season right now, like actually like 4 to 6 is kind of my window where I see a lot of bears. And that big boar I saw the other day, I mean, I saw him at 2 o' clock in the afternoon and then didn't see him the rest of the day, never came back out. But it was one of those kind of. Well, it was overcast day, fairly warm out, just a nice day to be out. But yeah, it's weird. It's like you make these rules and then bears will break all your rules. Like you make this rule, I only go out during this time and this is when I see him. And then it gets later in the season, then they totally break that rule. So it's like you get some guidelines, but again, it's like those hunting instincts just kind of tell you when you should go, when you should be looking and then, you know, you don't find anything. So you like try to do it different again. Tomorrow or whatever. But yeah, they're. They're a cool creature to hunt, aren't they? I'm glad you got the chance and have gone all in on them and you still got another chance over there in Oregon.

Yeah, no, I'm really excited about it. And it's basically like. It's basically mule deer hunting, but for a different animal in this different type part of the year. I mean, you're just getting a good glassing knob and like, just picking it apart, you know, throwing the binos on a tripod or whatever, stabilizing your binos up and spotting scopes and stuff and just picking the countryside apart. I love that part. And also, I mean, man, man, you think about, like, spring, you've just been holed up all winter, you get outside and you get to pick up sheds while you're out there. I, I a little bit weird. I like, walk around and, like, eat the little wildflowers that are coming up, like the bluebells and the shooting stars and the pick mushrooms and do all sorts. It's just like a fun time to be out because it feels like things are coming back to life after being buried in snow. It's kind of fun. My, I, my grandpa and my dad both like bear hunting. Maybe not as hard as we do or as maybe people do nowadays, but it was always just kind of a fun time to be out with those guys. So I hope, Yeah, I hope, you know, it's one of those things. Except for a couple of areas, like, and obviously I don't want to blow them up, but, like, most of the time, if you're hunting hard, getting away from a road, you're just like, not seeing a whole bunch of other people like you do with ungulate season seasons where you're having to manage that pressure is hard.

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, it's a great time of the year. The wildflowers. I found an arrowhead when I was going for that bear, which I just thought was a great omen. Like, I always believe it's like, oh, man, it's gonna happen today. And then I got blanked. But maybe that was my omen. But yeah, it's like such a fun time of year to be out. And we're out so much in the fall and all the grass is dead. It's just like a different time of year with everything being so green. Wild onions, the flowers, the. Yeah, it's just like a crazy time. I got a photo the other day of, like, the Indian paintbrush, like a hot pink one. That was all blooming, you know, that was pretty killer. And so, yeah, it's, it's a great time of the year to be out. And like you say we have cabin fever all winter. And it's, you know, I think hunting. It's funny how us mule deer guys kind of gravitate towards a mule deer style of hunting. And so I think I like the same way with bears, like living behind our glass and like the, the elk hunting that we talked about, like not calling and stalking them. Like, we're, we're kind of drawn to that style of hun. But it is like entry level dangerous game too. It's like bears are a different species and it can get western really quick. And so like you hunting that one with your bear at 40 yards, dude, that had to be a pretty thrilling encounter. Closing in and especially the, the, the, the stalk and the stop when he picks his head up and he's like, dude, does he see me? Is he looking my direction? His head's back down and like closing that 80 to 40. It had to be a pretty thrilling encounter. Like, I bet you weren't thinking about mule deer in that moment. You were thinking about bears and only bears, you know, which is pretty cool.

Yeah, absolutely. And it's that moment right before you go to draw back that you like, look at this, like, pointy stick that's sitting on your ass and you're like, gosh, this better work, you know, and it's actually kind of funny. Like, right before I stalked that bear and did that stock where I went from 80 to 40, I had stalked a totally different bear up canyon just like a. An hour and a half before that. And, and it was one of those things where he was. This other bear was sitting on this, this cliff band. By the way, I found out this other bear was the exact same size as the bear I killed. I was wondering if they're not siblings or something, but this bear sitting in this cliff band. And like, the only way to get to this bear was to get in this cliff band of grass, like on the same level as him. And they're like back is. They're bedded against this wall, just getting the sun, you know, and just like sleeping there. And I was like, okay, as I get a little closer, I'm like, Ah, I'm 80 yards away from this other bear. And I'm like, I think I should probably get some elevation, you know? So like, if I shoot this thing, the only way out is where I'm standing, like in this cliff in this band of grass. And so I crawl up this rock pile, and I. I set my bow up on this boulder, and I crawl up it, and then I set my bow up on the next boulder, and I, like, hear a rock move, and I'm like, oh, no. This bear I'm stalking must have, like, heard me. So I freeze. And then I hear another boulder move, and I look up, and just on the other side of my bow, where I just set it on the boulder, is this bear staring me in the.

Face at, like, 6ft.

I think both of us, like, crapped our pants and ran the other direction. I jumped down. I didn't have my bow with me, and I jumped down, and I ran around the edge of this rock to get a better visual, and this bear had ran off to the other side of the.