House of Wolves Episode Nine - Kevin Cruz; art, marketing and world travel.

You should be a monster, an absolute monster, and then you should learn how to control it. There's an intensity to what we're trying to accomplish, and, um, you know, if you want to be truly great, you've got to bring it every day.

Do you enjoy pain? Pain don't hurt.

You blitz all night.

Standing out is a long-term strategy, takes guts, and produces results.

If you care enough about your work to be willing to be criticized for it, then you have done A good day's work.

Yes, might as well be all in.

We're gonna do it. Yeah, if you're not gonna do it great, then don't do it at all.

Here's another one: do it with passion or not at all. Yeah, so you don't have to be number one to be passionate about it.

And I mean, I wish I just wasn't instilled with the number one or nothing.

Yeah, that's like Ricky Bobby. If you're in first, you're last.

It is kind of cultural American thing, right? Be number one. We're number one.

Yeah. I agree, but I think that there's like, number one at what? You know, like, we— there's so much more open and available to us. Number one author, number one self-published author, number one author/screenwriter/producer/publisher. Like, how many of those are there? And there are so many different things going into the definition that you're like, I could be I can be number one of something all day, every day. I get to define the terms.

So yeah, just to like let the audience know what we're talking about, right? I was talking about sort of like how my upbringing made me want to take less risks, right? And sort of my perspective, um, from what— how I was raised has affected my decision making, right? And so, uh, John was sharing his, his, uh, his philosophies or or sayings for how to overcome that.

And I think too, maybe we should tell everybody a little bit who you are. Like, if I were to introduce you, I would say you're an artist and you have experience in the marketing area. But what— how would you describe yourself?

This is Kevin Cruz, right? Good friend, podcaster, artist for sure, marketer for sure, home builder. Yeah, yeah, Renaissance property, Renaissance polymask. A person of many different times. Poly, multi-sided.

I thought that was like an insult.

Yeah, I was like, hey, hey, hey, he's sitting right here.

He's sitting right here.

Friend, long— one of your oldest friends, um, confidants, MC at our wedding, actually, as it were.

You name it. Yeah, probably done it once. That is a polygon. Yeah, um, yeah, I'm definitely an artist, and, and I like the term Renaissance man, you know, like I'm interested in science, I'm interested in history, I'm interested in making things, I'm interested in architecture. I just chase what fascinates me, right? And then I'm driven by my passion. So whatever I do feel passionate about, I'll really get into it and I'll really perform better versus if I try to perform on something I'm not interested in, my performance is not going to be as good. And so I'm really driven by my passion and my interest, but I'm an artist because my biggest strength is visual language, I guess you could say. And so that's my biggest strength. But like we discussed, I've dabbled in a lot of different things just based on my interest and my thirst for knowledge. And so I'll try something for a while until I learn it and I'm satisfied with it. And at that point, I can have a good relationship to move on to something else. Right?

Got it.

So that's why I kind of been skilled in so many things, but for money or for work, I did go into marketing based on my visual, you know, language speaking, graphic design and advertisement. How do I communicate, you know, this product to this person that might need it in a way that triggers their brain and say, I gotta have it, right?

Yes.

And that's kind of like the language of marketing anyways. And so that's what I've spent most of my time doing and I've dabbled in a bunch of other things.

That's one of the things that I have enjoyed most about this, like, over a decade of friendship is that you don't have any one interest. So anytime we are hanging out or talking, there's always something new to explore. And the fact that you've pursued it with such passion, it's never a superficial conversation. And I think that awe and curiosity and wonder of the world, seen and unseen, is what I admire and I love. And I feel that way way too, but you've taken it to new levels in the way you've pursued it and have traveled around the world to see things, experience people, and to push yourself outside your comfort zone in so beautiful places around the world and some less beautiful too.

Totally right. Totally right. And I almost forget about that. But yeah, that knowing myself and knowing the world kind of go hand in hand. People have never left their, you know, California, you know, never been to Mexico, right? You know what I mean? But the second you leave the U.S. and you experience another culture— for me, the first thing I realized when I did my first, uh, faraway trip, I was 18, I believe— I realized that, um, we're mostly the same with little differences, right? Versus like, we think that, oh, India, things must be so different there. But we're very much alike in a lot of what makes us human— family, friendships, foods, enjoyment, laughter, sports, activities, right? We all have those traditions in our culture. They just look different, you know what I mean? Or played a little different, and the rules are a little different, right? And so that really helped me understand humanity in general. Like, we're all one.

Wow. Yeah, I think we have more in common than we don't have in common.

Yeah, yeah, totally.

And I think that gives you some perspective for your own life and your own day-to-day too, just like how vast the world is and how beautiful, how much more is out there than what is in our day-to-day bubble.

And you don't take yourself too seriously. Like, you're one of the only people I know who want to go see the pyramids but also can have an in-depth conversation about Predator.

You know what I mean? The Predators built the pyramids.

That's what I'm saying.

That's what I'm saying to Yeah, no, uh, the, the— so my favorite thing I've seen, uh, and, and I guess we can go specifically into, uh, pyramids. The Pyramid of Giza in Egypt is— there's so much to see there.

Oh really?

There's so much to see there. And, and the structure is massive, and the bricks, the, the stones are so huge, they're the size of a house.

Wow.

That's because giants, or, or the aliens with this The suction machine, or it was lights vibrating or vibrating, making the stones rise.

You know, I heard that there's technology that's going to be shown soon where there's companies working on finding the different sound waves that different items vibrate at and that they would be able to move those items using sound.

It's true.

I've seen it. Have you seen it?

I've seen it. And it's real science. And it's possible.

Yes.

And if you look, that's the thing about past history, right? We know they had tools. It's like oming, for example, right? And then now we're discovering that that vibration is like a specific sound that either brings us peace to our mind or can levitate an object.

Cold fusion is something that I'd like to hear about because I don't know about that either. Do you understand?

I understand it in a very basic form.

It's okay, that's more than I know.

So if you tell me, uh, after nuclear, uh, the next thing to develop that didn't have a negative effect on, you know, massive scale, a massive scale, was cold fusion. It was a theory, and, uh, and the theory is basically to, to, to put energy into something and get more energy out.

Interesting.

So if I put in, uh, 1 volt, get 2 volts out. Okay. And then that's kind of like an infinite power source, and it creates no, uh, no, no, uh, nuclear waste, right? Because like when we create— when we split an atom, it creates a lot of nuclear waste.

Yeah.

And so they just successfully, like last week— the way that the machine that they built is they put 2 lasers together and they're shooting into a, a BB Uh, it's just how they accomplish the experiment. But they, for every 1 watt they put in, they got 1.5 out. So they created more energy out of, out of less energy.

So it's like energy able to create energy. Yes.

Normally energy is like a neutral thing. Energy is energy. It transfers.

It transfers, but most of the time you lose energy.

Yeah.

Through traveling through whatever cable, or that's how we created a fiber Fiber optic? Yeah, versus just the copper coil. It's a better conduit to transfer energy without waste. So basically anything we do, whether it's an engine or food, anything, you're putting more energy into it than you're getting out.

Interesting.

So like to create a carrot, right? How much resources do you need to create a carrot? It's more than you think.

And so compared to like what the carrot then provides.

Yeah.

How much nutrients? So you're constantly losing energy in every aspect, basically.

According to Avatar, everything— energy is transferred elsewhere.

Yeah, and, and that's true too. Um, so when I say wasted, it's the same as saying transferred to something else. Yes, because it's getting thrown over here, it's done already, getting left behind, getting, you know, it's being put somewhere else, somewhere other than where you— where you want it.

So you're, you're losing.

Well, I guess I'll be doing some Googling Later.

Yeah, no, it's super cool. The experiment is very small and the amount of power being used is very small and the amount of power that came out is very small. That's extra, but that's literally step one, right?

Yeah, absolutely. How do we figure out the possibility, prove the theory, expand on the concept and then make it be able to— Yeah, absolutely.

And so that's huge for humanity because our biggest problem is that to run our cars, we create a lot of waste. And with this technology, we can actually reverse all this if we could master it. So goodbye fossil fuels, goodbye nuclear reactors in San Clemente, goodbye a lot of—

Hello, George Jetson hovering. Vibrating, like, fusion cars for our children's children.

Think what it means for space travel. Like, where are you gonna go get gas when you're traveling from, you know, Earth to Mars? You know what I'm saying? And so with this kind of technology, you wouldn't run out of gas.

You know what's weird too about how much people talk about going, like, to the moon or to Mars? How little we still know about our planet. Like, I forget what percentage of the ocean has actually been mapped. I think last time I looked, it was only like 20% has actually been mapped, or less. Maybe it's 15%. That's so much of the ocean hasn't been mapped. But already we're like, okay, well, we don't need to know about that. Let's go to Mars, which is cool. That's cool. I'm down to go to the moon and Mars, but I wish more time and resources would be spent like LiDAR. Going over and seeing exactly what's in like rainforests and deep beneath jungles.

But you're doing some of that, or in Florida in the Everglades, there's so much stuff underneath there that has like undiscovered, new, unidentified, like—

oh, tell Kevin about the ghost ships.

Oh, okay. So, uh, there is some numbers that talk about the number of ghost ships. So a ghost ship is a ship that they find that's completely abandoned with no report of where they are.

Yeah.

Not like, hey, be back in 5 minutes, or no idea, we had an abandoned ship. Like, they just disappeared. So that's why it's called a ghost ship. There's something like 1,600 of them haven't been found in the last less than 100 years. And so they're trying to explain, like, why are all these ghost ships out there? Like, you know, some of them they would later discover, oh, this guy owed back taxes and didn't have the ability to make the payment or do whatever, or he owed somebody something, so he just abandoned the ship so that way he could claim insurance or whatever. There's been a couple instances where like it was abandoned near the, like, the middle of the Atlantic, but then they found the people who had floated elsewhere and got picked up all the way down in like Brazil, whatever. So a few of those, but the notorious amount have been found unexplained for where the people went.

They're just gone.

Yeah, they could have been, uh, like on life preservers or like in a life raft, but never were found. And so it's just an incomplete story.

But doesn't drinking seawater make you crazy after a while? That's what happens if they ran out of water, started drinking seawater, thought they could make it, and ended up in the ocean.

And then we never find their bodies because we're not exploring the ocean, slash the ocean and its animals have just taken everything, as nature does. They've redistributed that energy. So Yeah, that was like interesting things.

Isn't that weird? My imagination likes to think about that kind of stuff, like what could have happened. And that's how I write books all the time. It's like, what, what if, what if this happens?

One of the fun things about getting to talk with Kevin is like your varied interests. But your varied interests and passions can sometimes get you in a little bit of a pickle. Is that not correct?

Sure, in the sense of like other people's judgment.

No, definitely not that. By you being a Renaissance man and putting your attention and your time and your resources into different things in life can become overwhelming at times.

Yeah, I think it helped me with this one if you can. But what's the saying? Like, a man of many talents, or how does it go?

A jack of all trades but a master of none.

Do you know the rest of it?

No, I love— what is it?

It goes, a jack of all trades but a master of none. But a master of all is— or I forgot, I'm killing it. But it goes like the master of all is better than the master of one or something like that. So you're in a better situation with a person who knows a lot of things than you are with one person who just knows how to do one thing.

That's what I love about idioms. So many of what we use are incorrect.

Incorrect.

Yeah, completely incorrect. Right? Like the proof is in the pudding. I was like, that's not actually how it goes. Or chock-full, or it's not— yeah. So I, I do love me some idioms.

And how's that one go?

The, the proof is in the pudding, but in the taste, in the eating of the pudding, something like that.

I wish we could pull that up real quick and get it right.

We need a Jamie.

Yeah, we need to set up with Jamie. But yeah, um, people like— obviously you're, you're more useful when you know more, right? And then, and then in a bind the one guy who knows that one thing that's not necessary, they can't help.

That's all he knows.

And I guess that's a part of perspective. But I do know what you mean. Like, for me, since I'm driven by my interests, I can spread myself out very thin, right? I'll start multiple projects and work on them simultaneously, and then that can have consequences if not managed properly.

Yeah.

And so I faced some of that, those kinds of challenges in the last year.

Oh, wow.

Where I had multiple challenges and I wasn't being realistic with myself on what my strong skills were versus my non-strong skills, right? Sort of like the jack of all trades, right? And so for me, I believed in myself so much that I could do it all, right? That I was being sort of a in denial of what I wasn't being good at. And so that pushing that boulder that I wasn't budging up the hill caused me to wanna crash sooner or faster. And so there's only so, you can only push the boulder uphill for so long before you stop or drop it or let it go or take a break or whatever, right? And so I just went through that situation where I had to let go of a lot of projects because I became overwhelmed. Because it's kind of like the straw that broke the camel's back.

Right.

It wasn't necessarily me working on these projects that caused me to stop, but an outside incident caused me to then collapse on everything else.

Yeah. My boss, my old boss, used to talk about spinning plates and that someone who can manage many projects, different things at the same time, is all these plates spinning like, oh, what a wonderful juggler. But to your point, something comes crashing into that unexpected, the whole operation comes crashing down. Yeah. Juggling. We talk about juggling is working as opposed to everything is safe and secure and not dependent on one person having a hold of it all the time in that way.

And I think you're not the only person that goes through that. I think everybody faces burnout or a situation like that at some point or another.

And so I guess my takeaway from it was sort of like, I'm a big fan of understanding yourself, right, and your skills. And obviously you want to be positive, but you also got to be realistic at times too, which they're not mutually exclusive.

You can be positive and say, great, this is a weakness, here's the reality of that, or here's a growth opportunity. And that growth may be, can I grow, or can I supplant it with support?

Yes.

And I think that was what was challenging for me, was like, I wanted to be the one to push the boulder up the hill. I didn't want to say, oh, I actually had the help of 10 people to get this thing up here. And it might be an ego thing, right?

Did you think you were building the Tower of Pyramid of Giza by yourself?

You know what I mean?

Exactly right.

And so that's where it's like, I don't know if it's like a maturity thing or knowing yourself thing or just having too high expectations, but, um, you have to understand or see yourself from an outsider's point of view, and that's the hardest thing to do, you know what I mean? Like, I see myself in there working all these things, I think everything's going good, but how do I look from the outside and of how much am I accomplishing? What are my challenges? Where am I getting stuck at? And to be able to pull yourself out and be realistic about it and, and, um, make decisions that you weren't making originally, right? I need to change this. I need to change directions here because this isn't working.

Right.

And that was what I was having the most trouble with. And, um, and I was getting near to those solutions, um, before I kind of, you know, the, the ball hit me from the side and I dropped everything. And so, um, I think that's a good, uh, a good topic of discussion, right? Um, uh, I started, I picked up that book, The 4-Hour Workweek, right?

Love that one.

And so, uh, he's been sort of, uh, helping me understand what I've already been going through. And it's so awesome when a book does that to you, right? It speaks to your current situation.

Yes.

And it's crazy how that lines up sometimes.

And what's cool about Tim Ferriss is he has a bunch of other books, but also he has a podcast.

Oh, no way.

Yeah, there's like hundreds, if not thousands of episodes.

He's like one of the first big consistent lifestyle type of podcasts. I don't think he's been going as long as Joe Rogan. I think Tom Green was one of the earlier ones too. Yeah. But Tim Ferriss has been doing this for quite a season, so he's got a big backlist, but that means he also has a lot of people who understand systems and who worked on different things. So it explains a little bit about as he was developing various companies and launching a podcast and writing books. How he was able to say, okay, I can't do it all myself.

He has a podcast episode where he interviews Hugh Jackman. That's one of my favorites. That's a really good one. He has another book called 4-Hour Body.

Oh, I need that.

And then he has, uh, another book that I read called Tribe of Mentors, where he asks— I don't know if it's 100, but maybe let's just say like 50, 100, um, top-tier business people, actors, entrepreneurs, and he asks them all the same questions. So you get to see their answers and responses to his questions. And there's so many really cool nuggets.

I think Terry Crews is one of my favorite answers.

I think Terry Crews is on there. I think Stephanie McMahon is one of the people that you can reach out to and ask.

I think Malcolm Gladwell as well.

Make up— maybe Malcolm Gladwell has a really cool book called Outliers, and he studies like the Beatles, Steve Jobs, like all these famous people. Yeah. And finds out accomplished people what makes them— like, what made them so successful? Yeah.

What broke them out of the pattern?

Yeah.

Kind of like their routines, how they grew up, what opportunities they had, time periods, what was happening at that time that allowed them to do what they did when they did it. So those are— yes. But to your point, when you're in a season and you read something, it's like, this is so perfect now.

Like, a book hits you at the right time.

I wouldn't have fully appreciated it X amount of time ago.

Go.

And if I had waited another 2 years, like, it could have been too late. I would have— yeah, but I agree. I think I had the same sort of epiphany when I read that in 2016.

Yeah, and, and I remember you guys were on it back then, but I— it wasn't my time.

No, no, we're all on our own journey. I've never been to like half the countries, any of the countries except for Mexico that you've been to. But, you know, I know my time will come.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, by the way, side note, you got to go to the, the pyramids right after, um, we were with you guys in Mexico, right?

Yes.

And now you can't go on the pyramids anymore. You— they have— you can only see them from afar.

So that rule has always been in place. Oh, but just recently that lady went over the line and climbed it. Did you see the footage?

No.

We're talking about the pyramids in Mexico, right? Yeah.

Well, so, okay, so Mexico City in like center, the center of Mexico, that has like the Pyramid of the Sun and the Pyramid of the Moon, which are humongous.

Okay.

And, uh, yeah, okay. And, and those you can climb. I climbed them. I don't know, maybe they put it in Google today.

No, no, no, no, it was, it's a recent— because remember my mom went a couple years ago and she also had climbed it.

But recently somebody did something crazy, and that's why they shut it down.

Well, the one in Cancun. Oh, so then there's another one in Cancun, and that one isn't as big as the Sun and the Moon, but it's steeper. Oh, if you've seen the movie Apocalypto, they designed their pyramids kind of like that, where they're very steep.

Okay, did a lady fall or something?

And so years ago, they would let people climb it, but one time so many people were climbing up one person fell and cascaded everyone else down.

And there's a video of it.

World War Z, like World War Z, just falling.

Is there a video of this?

I, I would say no.

Oh, okay.

And yeah, you should look that up, Jamie. And, uh, and, uh, and so I think someone died, or two people died. People got crushed. Oh no, you can't laugh. And so then that's when they banned people from climbing up those pyramids. And then just recently, like 3 weeks ago, 2 weeks ago, a lady went up there and climbed it again.

I've not heard again, but somebody else.

Yeah, someone else. And she was by herself, you know, so no charges. She didn't fall or hurt herself, but she broke the rules. She went up there. And, uh, why would you break those rules? As soon as she got down, people mobbed her. They were throwing water at her, yelling at her, like trying pull her hair and things like that.

Oh, dang. Like, it was super like Game of Thrones.

It was super like shame. Yeah, shame. Like, super offensive, right, to do that.

Yes.

And people were like yelling at her, get down, don't go up. And they were yelling at her, but she did her own thing. She didn't care. No respect for the people or culture.

We don't use profanity on this podcast, but I can imagine some of the language thrown at her as well.

Yeah, totally. Do you like curse? No, no, no, no, no. So I just hear myself.

No, no, no. So I'll get him back. So you're right, we have to encounter the books at the right time. So you encountered 4-Hour Workweek right when you were like, I need to get some— something's got to—

something. And it's only because after I got out of the clouds, right after I woke up from my days of like being knocked down kind of thing, I started to reflect and going through sort of the things that were causing me problems or I was finding difficult versus what I find passionate. Because like, I'm driven by my passion, right?

Right.

But not everything, not everything I was working on was, uh, really creative, right? Because you've got to do some administrative work and you got to do some of the work that you don't want to do. And so, or not that you don't want to do or aren't necessarily good at, because I could do the work It's just that I wasn't passionate about it. And like I mentioned earlier, like, if I'm not passionate about something, it's really hard for me to really give it my 100%. And so I think I was telling myself, you can give it 100% even if you don't care. And that's a slow diminishing return thing to put yourself into. Yes, sometimes. And so, um, I— a co-worker at work brought up the book, and that's what got me back on. And I remember, John, you were trying to get me on, so I was like, This is already the second time I've heard this. It might impact me. So I got on it and sure enough, like, um, as he was talking, I was reflecting and I was noticing how I was already trying to create these problem-solving solutions, but I was working it on my own versus someone having the handbook.

Right, right. No, exactly.

There's like nonstop now, like I listen to audiobooks or podcasts The only time I listen to music really is when I write now. Any other time, whether I'm working out, doing chores, driving, it's always either an audiobook or podcast so I could learn and grow and keep on developing. Because like what you said, there's so many other people who have been through what we have been through and they're able to share now so we don't have to make the same mistakes.

Yeah, totally. And where was I going to go?

We were talking before too about kind of learning and growing, how investing in yourself Oh yeah.

So I caught my thought. So sometimes we're resistant to help. And like I said, I don't know what it is, if it's ego or if it's what, but—

Maybe it's the way you were raised.

Or the way I was raised. I can do it myself. I don't need anyone's help. Right. And so for me to come to that realization where it's okay, I don't have to invent the wheel from scratch. There's already blueprints and I can just work off of that. I don't need to reinvent the wheel, as they say. And that's sort of what I'm trying to change in myself now is be more open to not being a one-man show.

I'm smiling right now too because Jen knows this. Nobody best offer me help because I'm going to say yes every single time. Whatever you have, I have the exact opposite. Like anytime anybody asks, oh, do you need help? Yep. And I'll put them right to work on something. Even if anyone's just being like courteous, even if they're just trying to be nice, like don't come to me and ask me if you want to be nice because I'm going to put you to work.

A parent. Yeah, he's like, oh, uh, you know, they asked him, he's like, yes. He says, yes, here you go, do this.

Yeah, yeah.

I come back and I'm like, oh, I'm sorry, is that okay? And they're like, uh, yeah, I think it's fine. I was like, don't offer, because even out of a courtesy, because he's gonna say yes and he's gonna give you— like, he has no issue delegating whatsoever.

Like, I'm under no delusion that everything that's happened to us, like, I've done by myself. It's been like a team effort. Just like they say, like, it's a village that helps raise a child. I think it's a village that helps with any sort of either company or any objective that you're going to. Like I say, yes, as much as possible. So anytime, like, my family comes over for like a meal or something like that, so they see us like getting the house ready or whatever, like, oh, can I help? Yep, go ahead and grab the vacuum. We need to vacuum this room. And then when you're done, I need you to chop those vegetables up.

I am like you, Kevin.

Small slices.

No, you just sit down. I'll figure out— like sweating and like, yeah, I'm gonna chop these. But I don't know how many times I've sliced a finger or something like that trying to hurry with a sweet potato or a carrot so I can go dust or vacuum something. And Tom's like, just get help or ask for help or accept the help.

It's tough. And is it an upbringing thing? Is it a character thing? And I don't know. But what I do know is that we all have to sort of reflect. It's so important to reflect and to understand yourself, because if you make the same mistake more than once, you might be insane, right?

Yeah.

Like, if you keep repeating the same mistakes all this over and over, that's the definition of insanity.

Yeah. Repeating the same thing and expecting different results. Yeah.

Yeah. And so, and so at a certain point, um, I had to sort of like analyze that and, uh, and overcome my, my, um, my, uh, perspective or my paradigm, right? Shattering my paradigm.

Yeah.

And rebuilding. And so what does it take to do that? Like, sometimes it takes a tragedy, you know what I mean? Sometimes it takes a big cataclysm to do it. But if you can do it without any of that, yeah, you're so much better off. And you might think, oh, I'm fine, I don't need it, right?

Well, I think that, uh, we get so focused on the grind and our head is just down, like grind, do it and do it. I'm so deep in these trenches, in a trance. Yeah, that we forget to look towards milestones or to take that step back, like to say, okay, is this working? Yeah, is this— can I take a moment, a beat to assess? Is, you know, and I think you phrased it so well earlier before we started doing this, is that like writing, writing it out, going back to that whole visual communication put— spelling it out. What are the different areas that I'm putting my energy into? What are those— the goals for each of those? And like a hierarchy of what's important, what's worth the squeeze, the juice is worth the squeeze on the efforts of any of those. And what are the things that the goal is the most important part? So that way it's easier to accept help on that journey to getting, making that come to fruition.

Yeah, you're right. And to add sort of on the side too, right, when we're on the grind, we're so focused, you need to stop and smell the flowers. You need to stop and take a break, or you need to stop and sort of look back, right, to get that outside perspective. Because if you do everything so focused, it'll eventually not work to your benefit. Like if you work out too much without taking a rest day, that's going to end up burning out your muscles and actually causing damage to your body. So like knowing, understanding how to take breaks, how to knowing when you're working too much, when to pull back and sort of not being in the zone, right? Like you've seen that Facebook movie where they're coding, right? And they're just locked in and they're just, he's been on there for 14 hours with no sleep and only drinking Red Bulls, right? Like that can't be good for for you?

No, absolutely.

And all those guys are driven by their passion, but then how long down the road does it take before they're burnt out, right? Or when do they burn out at working at that capacity?

And what are they damaging along the way? To their point, like, yes, they're going to burn out, and then do they recover? Or are some things in such a state of disrepair— relationships, health, emotional health, mental health? So there's so much more that goes into life. We're not just beings who do. We're not, we're not doings, we're human beings. So we need to find our space to be in, in where that looks like to thrive. And it may not be for people, anybody watching or listening, it may not be, hey, I've got 20 different like entrepreneurial endeavors. It could be the basics of, and very important parts of, like, what am I doing for work? What are my interpersonal relationships? What is my family relationships? How am I running my household? Whatever that is, my volunteer work. What are those things? And are we so bogged down by the day-to-day and just trying to get through it? And we would need to stop and say, like, is this working for me? Is this— it doesn't have to be New Year's, it could be any point in time to take a step back and just, you know, write it out, journal it out, have a conversation with someone you trust to be a good listener so you can begin to hear yourself saying it. And like, okay, what do I want out of this? What What do I want to put into it? What do I want to get out of it? And is this working? Am I on the right health track? If I continue doing what I'm doing the way I'm doing it, where am I going to be in 6 months?

And everybody's different too. Yeah, everybody. I know a lot of, like, Jen's heard me say this before, but when I started working, because I write 6 days a week, I've been doing that for, like, years. But, like, early on, when people first started to get to know me, they're like, oh, you're going to burn out. You're going to burn out. You shouldn't write so much. Oh, you're burning out. I've never burned out of writing because I love to do it. But I found a system where I take Sundays off, so I only write 6 days a week. And then I know for me, the gym, even though it's work, it helps rejuvenate me. I find rest. Maybe it's a mental rest. No, it's an exercise for it. At the gym and exercise. So I think everybody's different. So some people, maybe they need to take 2 days off. Some people, maybe they don't find rest in the gym.

So even though they work out, they need to go golfing to a golf course. Or make art.

Yes. Yeah. Or make art. Yeah. And I think that stuff, like, once you find out what rejuvenates you, you need to put that in your schedule, right? Because that's going to be like your healthy rest stop that helps you be able to stay the course.

So whether that's like doing art once a week or playing music once a week or however, whatever it is, 20 minutes a day, an hour a day, but it's managing your systems, if you have a system or your process, whatever it is you're doing, and is that working to get you where you're doing? Does it have a goal? Does it have an end? Does it have somewhere you're headed? And then in addition to that, how are you restoring yourself? So it's kind of like goes back to you got to know yourself, know where you are, know where you're headed, and then know what's going to refuel you to help get you there.

Is that another idiom? Check yourself before you wreck yourself?

I use that All the time, for the children especially.

You tell that to the children, the 35-year-old children, know the reference?

No, my 6-year-old and my 2-year-old will learn. The 6-year-old, she knows when she's kind of just acting a little crazy and she, you know, is all hyped up, whatever it is, I let her know she's getting a little sassy. Hey, you need to check yourself before you wreck yourself. I'm giving you heads up now that if you continue on this path you are going to have undesired consequences. And so that's where a dialogue can begin of like, hey, I have a lot of energy. Great. Let's go outside. Let's do something. Let's have fun with it or whatever it is.

At what age do you think she'll realize that's a song?

Oh, not until she hears the song.

Yeah. I don't know when she's going to hear that song.

My mom's been saying that my whole life. That's a song. she thinks it's like play DOH or some green philosopher.

No, no, no, no, no. I'm pretty. We're pretty open with that.

But yeah, it's.

It's.

It's a. It's balance.

Right.

Finding out what balances you.

Yes.

And guys like me tend to go all in on one thing and ignore everything else.

Can we. This is just a thing for me and I do this from time to time and it drives dropping crazy. I prefer harmonized Because balance makes it sound like everything's more in equilibrium. But with the harmony, everything's kind of working together.

I like tuned.

Yeah, right. It's tuned. And some things may intentionally be tuned to this, tuned to that. Yeah. But they end up working together as opposed to balance. Sounds more like a versus work. Yeah. It's also like a versus, like you have to get one just right over the other. And I think in a harmony—

well, you can look at it that way because certain things weigh more than others. You got to balance the different sizes. Yeah, it's kind of the same, same, same but different.

Yeah, well, let's live in harmony sounds very good.

It does, right? I just like the language of that.

Let's make that a sign for the living room.

Yeah, you're a visual communicator. I like the nuance of different language and words for some reason.

I think what's cool, like, there's a beauty to never getting it figure it out or always being able to get it better. Because I think even at our stage, like what we're doing, we're still learning every single day. Yeah, we're still implementing things that optimize our performance and make us better. And I'm sure 10 years from now we're still going to be learning more things that are going to make our schedule better.

No doubt that even tomorrow we're going to continue to be working on improving because as seasoned as we feel, like we've been doing this for a while, I know that we're still very young and early in the overall journey, process, whatever it's going to be. I mean, I don't know about you, but I'm not talking like a 50-year-old with experience. I still feel really, really new and past the discovery, but we're— I think we're always in a sort of discovery phase.

And it's kind of like, um, the journey versus the destination, right? Um, And I think that's also a problem that like young people struggle with is thinking they have to be there now, right? They're like 21 and they think they're already failing at life because they're not already rich. And, and that's where you get the burnouts, because then they go all in 100% into this one thing and then they burn out, right? And, and, and they, they missed out on a couple years. They missed out on a couple, right? You know what I mean?

Well, they don't even know, like, what am I working towards? What is, what is rich? What is rich? You know what I mean? Yeah, sure, you have a money, but if you don't have any time with your family or to do the things you love, then you're pretty poor in terms of, of what is of value.

And they won't know it until it's already passed.

It's going to be so, so late, right? Uh, I heard someone say once that people overestimate what they can do in a year and grossly underestimate what they can do in 10. So that there's— yeah, so there's their perspective of early, of timing of what could be done and how things compound. It's just so, it's just so skewed. Um, but also it comes with what you were saying before, maturity and experience is the only— someone who's 21, if you're talking about them about a 10-year plan, that's half their already existing life, right? Yeah. So then you get to 30 and you're talking about what are you going to do for the next 20 years? You know, you're like really into your career sort of thing, or really like figuring that out, then you're like, well, I don't know, I just got here, so I don't know what I'm gonna do for 20 years.

And it's like a mental capacity thing too, like our ability to, uh, think into the future. That's like a, a skill that has levels to it. And so there are people who can't think 10 years ahead, but other people just cannot for whatever reason.

Yeah.

And, uh, and so like You could practice this, so, right?

Like, like, you could try to— that's why they— people who like really are into like improving your life, let's say, write a 5-year goal.

I, I cannot. I cannot get them. I cannot for the life of me. My goals past 35 have been completely nebulous. I don't know.

Well, and you know what, to be funny, like, I kind of went through a similar thing too, of like, you— when you're young, it's easy to see yourself till you're 30, because by the time you think you're gonna be 30, you think you already have it all figured You do not, right? And so like, I faced a similar thing where like, I couldn't think past 30, but I was like, by the time I get there, I gotta have it all figured out. And that's kind of like where the deadline comes in, right? And then I hit 30 and I was like, oh, I, I did it, I did it. Like, you know what I mean? Like, to be perfectly honest, I really accomplished basically all my goals, right?. And then once I did that, I was kind of like, what am I going to do next? And it was kind of like a crisis thing too, where I would tell my wife, I don't know what my new goal is. I need a goal.

Who am I?

What's my goal?

Yeah. You know what I mean? Because I knocked down so many things I had on the list and then moved on to the next.

Right.

And so I reached a certain point where I was kind of like, I need a goal or else I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah.

And to think, like you're saying, projecting, thinking further, right? Instead of a 1, 2-year goal, you got to think 5, 10, 15-year goals. And you have to think exponentially, not bigger scale, like I want to buy a house and I want 5 houses, but like, what does that mean in terms of the return on whatever that goal is?

And it's like, and sometimes we don't even know if what we want is good for us, right?

And that's, that's part of like Seth Godin talks about sunk costs and not being afraid to pivot. As we are on that journey and we are closer to achieving whatever that was we were working toward and we realize this is not good for me, this is not meant for me anymore.

Like, this was the goal of my mom, this was the goal of society, this was the goal of me 10 years ago, and now I'm almost there. And, and who am I now to compare to who I was then?

Yeah, that's something that I've had to learn because I don't like to give up on things. I feel like I can be consistent and disciplined in accomplishing anything. So when those things come up that aren't working out, there's like the doors are being closed, it's hard for me. And I'm getting better at it, but it was hard for me a long time to give up on things because I felt like I was giving up on it, and I don't like to give up.

That's like a pride thing.

Yeah, but it's, um, also like I like to finish what I start, but not all the time. If like you keep on hitting these roadblocks, um, like whether it's a different company or project that you open and it's not working out like year after year but you have other opportunities that are working out. It's kind of me giving myself permission and saying like, hey, you're not giving up on this. This is just not the best place for you to spend your time. You need to spend your time over here. So I think I've gotten better at that, but that was hard.

Totally.

I don't like giving up on things.

And then I'm the same way. And like, this year has been that for me, is like understanding what's worth my time, what's worth the squeeze, what's working now, what's what could be working later. And, and so that's where I'm at right now, um, in, in my life, is, is reevaluating where I'm at now and where to spend my time best, right?

Do you feel like you can feel momentum? Like, I know, like, when a project is not working— like, we're closing down one of our businesses this year because it's just not working out. And we've tried— we had the momentum and we lost it after COVID, and then we've tried to build back that momentum and it is not happening. So the partners decided just to dissolve the company. So we signed papers to dissolve it. But just like I can feel the momentum dying, I can feel momentum working for us with other projects that keep on going to the next phase, the next level. Do you feel like you can feel momentum?

Definitely. I know when things are rolling in the right direction, right? It's like an energy. Yeah, energy. And the pace is— you keep meeting the deadlines and even surpassing the deadlines, like new opportunities that support your goal are coming up and you're just like, whoa, this is meant to be, right? And so like, definitely, I definitely do feel those things and you gotta ride the wave at that point. You can't freak out, right? Like sometimes we wanna look at ourselves, but then that slows down our momentum. Like you can't look back until you've already passed the goal, right? Because sometimes we give ourselves a sense, a false sense of accomplishment when we— I don't want to say gloat on the success, right? You got to keep moving. And so, yeah, I have felt momentum. And for me, whenever I feel momentum, it's like, keep moving forward. Yeah, run with it as fast as you can until the eventual slowdown. Not everything goes up forever, right? Like, and that's another thing too, like, even with like the economy and like the stock market and everything, just looking at how it moves and behaves, it's, it's definitely an up and down situation. And like, our life functions the same way. And so like, even though I just went through a down, to me it's like, uh, it's like the stock market. Like, now I look at my life like I look at the stock market, you know what I mean? Like, I'll go through go through like a recession, I'll go through a big bubble, you know what I mean? I'll go through like a crash and the leveling, you know what I mean? A rebuild phase.

Yes.

And so like the, the grand scheme of the economy is also kind of like the grand scheme in our lives, right? You can, you can, you can see parallels in it. And so now I used to fear the bad, right? I— and, and then when I was in the bad, it's like, how long is this gonna last? And so like, and so like sometimes you can dwell in that And, uh, and so for me now, instead of dwelling in my bad luck, quote unquote, right, like, that doesn't help you get past your bad—

no, right? Your energy is— and your focus is spent on that instead of looking towards solutions or just being content in that season. If it's like— I don't want to say beyond your control, but if there are factors beyond your control to come to peace with that. Like, this is happening, but that doesn't mean I'm in the storm right now. Yeah, yeah, just hold on.

And so, and so, yeah, I want to be the guy who's like enjoying the rainwater hitting me versus trying to be like, you're Lieutenant Dan, you know? Yeah, I got no legs, but you know what, I'm alive.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so I'm learning how to handle the different waves of life in, in a in a mature manner versus freaking out on the downs and gloating on the highs, you know what I mean? Sort of being more mature about each part of your, of your roller coaster ride, right? You know, and so, uh, and so right now we're in the— at least right now I'm in the, in the recession build out of the recession.

You're in that part of that roller coaster that's clicking out before, before matches anything I mentioned.

But, but I do feel right now a positive shift, um, in my overall life, and things are starting to line up that are making me feel like, oh, I'm getting out of the, out of the storm, right?

I love that.

And so, uh, it'll pass. Time will pass. Just tell yourself that, you know, um, it'll pass. Yes. Because sometimes we think that this is the end, and, and that's the worst place to be in, the worst mental state to be in, is there's no recovering from this.

Right. And there are— I can't think. I mean, I'm sure there are, but there are very few, very few realistic situations and scenarios that are like you can't recover from. You have a good support system. If you've built that around you, you're pouring into other people.

Um, that speaks to who you surround yourself with too, because if you're surrounding yourself with positive people, then I think you're going to be able to get out of that negative space sooner. But if you're surrounding yourself with just negative people, then it's going to be much harder for you to get out.

They're going to want you to stay down in that valley for— in that recession for a while.

Or maybe they don't want you, but maybe they don't know how well to give you the words, right?

Because they're there too, right? They're there too, and they don't have that forward perspective of like, the boom is coming.

Remember, calm seas don't make good sailors. That's another idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

That reminds me, we come from weather and storms, to segue back to another thought I was having, which reminds me of you more so. I like comfort. I like comfort. I hope for comfort. My goal is comfort.

You've come to the wrong place.

That's why I brought it up, because I know that, like, with you guys, it's about being outside of your comfort zone.

Oh, no, don't put me in the same boat as that guy. I want to be completely transparent. I think all of us by nature would like comfort, and I think I can get bogged down by comfort, but then I get super bored and I didn't realize what happened. I get into these doldrums by comfort, but that's my creature comfort, is to go back there. So by coming alongside and teaming up with Jonathan, who like abhors comfort, yeah, he my comfort zone is actually— I thrive outside of it. I don't know if that makes sense. I want it, but once I get there, I don't do well there. So I need to get out. But it's like I haven't gotten to the space. Maybe I won't. And that's why Jonathan and I have been matched up, is that I do better when I'm outside of that zone. But he really is very aware of his comfort zone and getting the heck out of it.

I waterboard myself. Can't say it with a straight face. For a long time, I was—

I waterboarded.

Fun. Yeah, for a long time I was taking cold showers just because I heard it was so good for you, like circulation, immune system, wakes you up and stuff like that. So I finally got to the point where I could turn the shower all the way to cold. Like, I would take a regular shower, but then at the end turn it all the way to cold and just stand there. And then I was like, how can I make this harder? So now I would just let the cold water hit my face. Then I was thinking, how can I make this harder? So then I'd have the cold water just hit my mouth. And just stand there, waterboard myself, and just make myself breathe through my nose and not panic when this like icy cold water is like hitting my face and into my mouth. And then I stopped doing it because I feel like I kind of accomplished that. And I didn't— I mean, I'm sure there are so many benefits, right?

Many, many.

Yes.

The only benefits that I can personally vouch for is it definitely wakes you up. I definitely felt more alert and awake after the cold showers. But as far as like more energy or circulation or help your immune system, I'm sure it did do all that. I just didn't experience it personally.

So are you saying we gotta up, up the ante? We gotta get you one of those ice tubs?

I don't know, Alaska and do some swimming.

I would do it, but I, uh, maybe doing that would be just because it's hard, like a mental challenge, not necessarily because I, I see the physical benefits on a day-to-day basis.

Okay. I will talk— introduce you more to some statistics. My friend Wim Hof, uh, yeah, he's also breathing too, right?

Teaching you how to breathe. Yes, that's cold. Like, I can— and again, I'm not saying all those benefits from cold showers or baths or whatever don't exist. I'm sure they do. I'm just saying I've only experienced one of those, that just being more alert. You're super awake and alert after you take a freezing shower.

You're saying you like checked off the mental tough.

Like, yes, mentally I can make myself do that. Okay. You know what thing still bothers me to this day? One thing I mentally could not do was right under where you're sitting, there was a possum, a dead possum underneath our house foundation, and the stench was horrible. So we knew there's something going on. First we were sure like a leaky pipe, a sewer pipe or something like that. We had it checked out, sure enough, a possum. So I was going to go down there, and the opening to the house is on the complete other side of the house. So I have to get down, and I'm not like a little person, so I'd have to like get down, barely fit underneath the grate, crawl on my elbows and knees in the dark stench to go grab this possum and then drag it, I guess, behind me out.

20 pounds?

I was mentally strong enough to get myself underneath the house, and then I saw how far that I was going to have to go, and there's like pipes underneath the house, like how I'd have to like crawl and wiggle my way. Towards this stench. And I was like, no, I can't.

I'm just gonna piss.

I'm gonna do this.

I got so close, and I'm so ashamed of myself to this day. I think, man, I should have made myself do it just because it would have been a challenge.

Was this 3 years ago, or was this 6 years ago? Oh no, it had to be 3 years ago.

I think like it was 3 years ago.

I was pregnant with Jackson.

And then I still think, I still think about that to this day. Like, man, I couldn't do it. I couldn't make myself crawl on my hands and knees. No matter how tough I think that I am, I still couldn't do it.

So I'd like you to elaborate more on the benefits of being outside your comfort zone, because I think that's also like a mental leap for people. You don't understand it just by hearing it, right? Like, like, be it live outside your comfort zone. Yeah. Like, what does that mean to people really when you think about it, right? And so are you able to like elaborate on, on how does that help cultivate success versus comfort, um, being to the deficit of success.

Yeah, I want to do an entire episode on this. So good.

But please, yeah, we should.

Yes, this will give Kevin a little, little taste then.

Yeah, for sure. So I think, uh, for me, here's a good example. For me, my comfort zone is writing. It's super easy for me to wake up in the mornings, walk over to the office. It's something that I know, it's a routine. I don't have to talk to anybody. I'm just sitting from my computer and I'm just hanging out with my characters. They're telling me jokes in my head. I'm like a crazy person because I hear all these different voices in my head and I'm just following along the journey. I'm laughing. Okay, there's characters throwing up.

Tell us more.

Is it a good situation for you?

Yes, super happy, right? I could be super happy doing that 6 days a week, just working on my next like script or, uh, comic book or novel, whatever it is. Super comfortable. It is— I'm not scared, not fearful, but it is uncomfortable for me to go book a signing event or go book a speaking event, to get up in front of hundreds of people, to go to like a film festival, to go meet and shake hands. And barking, baby, that is uncomfortable for me. Yeah. And even the traveling part, like, I feel like it's such a chore to like have to book the plane tickets or book the hotel or go ahead and have to do all that stuff when I'd much rather just be sitting down writing. But every single time, every single time that we have gone out to go do one of those events, something always unexpected and good happens to us. To the event where we're making connections to fund our next, uh, film or our next movie, or we're making connections that are helping us market our books.

Make meeting readers in person and seeing the impact that your stories and the tales that you weave have on real people. Yes.

So it's always been positive. So I think maybe it might be unexpected. You might have to go put yourself out of your comfort zone and you might not know what's going to come out of it. But I promise you, something good and unexpected will come out of it.

It goes back to that same— that a little bit of what you're saying and doing the same thing, expecting different results. If we want to see things and get results we've never had, we have to do things we've never done.

And think—

and that goes back to like, often, not exclusively, but often that means we haven't done them because they daunted us, because we didn't know how, because they pushed us out of our comfort zone. And think about how good you feel, or any of us feel, when we've accomplished something we weren't sure we would be able to do. So when we go outside of our comfort zone to go after something new and we get that win, it builds our faith in ourselves and our confidence all the more to get to the next thing and the next thing and the next thing, whatever that ends up being. And like you were saying before, of challenging yourself because you might have to learn something new, but in that learning something new, that is making your jack of all trades. You're adding another thing to your knowledge or capability base. And there's a lot of research that shows physically and mentally the ways that we are strengthened when we do things outside of our comfort zone, outside of our comfort.

We grow, right? We grow.

Yeah. And I think discomfort, when you're doing— when you're not doing something that you know you should be doing, it almost has like some power over you. But when you are able to do that thing, it's like you have the power now. So in our TV show pilot Infinity System, I knew I wanted to act. I wanted to be a part in there. I've modeled before, but I've never acted on a professional level before. So I wasn't scared about being in front of the cameras, but I was scared about messing up my lines or just being like the weakest link in the chain because we had these other great actors there.. So that's the part that I was scared of. And I'll use the word scared, not just uncomfortable. Like I was scared of messing up my lines. I just didn't wanna mess up my lines. I didn't wanna be the weak link in our chain. So I went ahead and did it and everything worked out great. Or everybody's lying to me cuz everybody said I did a great job. So either I really did a good job or everybody's lying to me and telling me I did. But I feel like I took that power, right?

Cuz it almost had power.

Like I was fearful of it and now that I did it, I feel like I took that power back. Yeah.

I like, I like that, um, because like, um, you know, doing things that are uncomfortable gives us strength. Yes. It gives us confidence.

Power.

It gives us power. Yeah. And, and then like to what you, your example that you use too, um, the marketing part, right? Going out there and, and shopping your, your stuff, right? Um, that also is, uh, makes yourself vulnerable. Yeah. It opens you judgments, and it could be uncomfortable, but putting yourself out there, going out there, meeting the people only opens up new opportunities, right? And like, that reminded me of a lot of like my travels and like a lot of my like early 20s where like me, just the, just the action of traveling is putting yourself out there to new opportunities and new experiences. And in my journeys, I would meet people, they'd take me here and then that would take me there and I would learn something new, unexpected. I met a guy on the train and he took me to Dracula's Castle in Transylvania.

No, I didn't know that.

I didn't know that story. You know what I mean? Yeah. And, and so, and so yeah, it, it propels you, right? And, and being social and putting yourself out there in a positive way can propel you to more positivity and kind of build momentum for you. To keep expanding that momentum and keep expanding your reach. And then the opposite effect can happen too. Like, if you're comfortable, like most people, in your home, on your couch, on your bed, watching TV, relaxing, which is what people do for comfort, that puts you out of opportunity.

Yeah. And so preach, preach. And I don't want you to think like you can never have comfort because what you're saying before is balance or harmony, right? There's always like harmony. So you can't, um, always be going out. Like, for me, like, I can't always be going out putting myself out of my comfort zone because I can't always be on the road. Like, I have a family.

Like, going out to these events, your energy also can't sustain, right?

Doing too much.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So everything in balance, right? So like, harmony. Yes, harmony, right? So it's not to say that you can't watch, um, Ancient Apocalypse with Graham Hancock, as you know, right before you go to bed, or like, you know, as your break throughout the day. So it's not like you always have to grind, but most of the time you should be grinding.

Yeah, definitely. And the comforting can also be compared to your fears, right? And so for people listening, you know what I mean? I think it's important because I think we all face these roadblocks where we're stopping ourselves, right? No outside force is stopping you, but people like to make the excuse, right, of like, Oh, I'm not doing this because of this or because that. It's really just because you don't want to.

You're your own greatest enemy.

Yes. Yeah. We're developing these narratives that tell us we can't or we shouldn't because of XYZ, because of our background, because of something we read online, that whatever it is. And it's like most of the time those things don't happen. You can go and you can try. Like, I am daunted by the idea of nature, like going out, being in nature, going on all these hikes and going camping. But I've joined this phenomenal nature group with the kids, and I'm willing and interested in putting myself out there because I know that it is important for the kids and all the benefits that they're going to have. And I don't think anyone can refute that there are multiple benefits, creative, like creative inspiration, health, whatever, from being in nature. And so I've looked at 2023 as I'm going to say yes more than I'm going to say no to all of that. And it's like, what am I afraid of? Okay, being tired, getting burnt out, being dirty and uncomfortable from sleeping on the ground. Okay, those are all super petty things that are very temporal, will get over and be recovered from by the time we get home. So I figured, like, I have just been putting up that mental block for myself and denying myself so much beauty and experience and a relationship and health. And yeah, so I am looking forward to it in a way that's like kind of weird of this is going to kind of suck, but I'm looking forward to it because I also know it's going to be good.

Do you like camping? Yeah, I like nature. I like hiking.

I used to camp as a kid.

I did too.

So I got experience in it, definitely. And it's great memories, it's great for the kids. Yes, it's good for us in general. Yeah, uh, you know, so we should all probably—

I don't like camping.

I know, but as opposed to myself— do we do it? It was last year or this year?

This year. I, I would hardly— did this year. I don't consider that like the best camping experience. I wouldn't even put that on my top 8 of my camping experiences, and I used to go with the high school group as like a volunteer leader with a bunch of high schoolers and just go like sleeping on the lake next to the lake or under the stars or like not showering for days.

I'm just not good at not doing anything.

Well, that was the problem on that camping trip. We didn't do anything.

You know, like some people are like, oh, I'm just gonna— on my vacation, I'm just gonna lay out at the pool. I tried that too. Went on vacation, I sat down at the pool, I was like, man, this is so boring. So like went swimming but then just like laid out again. I was like, I think it was after like 2 hours of laying out, I was like, I can't do this anymore.

I think at one point you were doing less.

Like, this is too much. Like, I don't need that much rest. So maybe some people do. Maybe some people need the rest where they just lay out.

Because we know people—

we won't name names again, but every single episode I say we won't name names, but we know people who that's literally what they do on vacation. They lie down at the pool all day, drink and do nothing and drink. Yes, all the above, right? And I'm like, I could do that for an hour, maybe 2 hours, but we got to go do something.

Yeah, it's not my cup of tea.

No, not at all.

So that camping trip that we went on, but in nature, in nature, chances are you could take a 1-mile walk and that's a lot of exploration for the normal, you know. So, so there's always something to do when you can't be— but when you're at a resort, you're very limited. And I'm the same way, like I don't get too much joy from being at an all-inclusive resort where I'm just supposed to binge eat, binge drink, and just sit there.

Isn't that where we went for your wedding?

The only time, because otherwise I don't even want to be in the hotel. I want to be exploring.

Yeah, go watch the Dracula's Castle. Yeah, so a guy invited you that you met on the train, a stranger? Yeah.

Anything weird to He invited me to his house to spend the night, and it just so happened he lived at Dracula's castle.

And I did.

You're a vampire?

I did.

That's why we're here. Awesome, guys, thank you so much for this. It has been a blast. Kevin, you shared amazing insights, and I just cannot wait to edit this and put this out there for everyone. Yeah, yeah, I'm bumping it up in the line.

Yeah, this will go out next. We love you, man. Thanks for coming.