How Women Are Taking Back Control of Their Sourdough Bread (And Saving Hundreds).

Are you a woman that feels overwhelmed, drowning in responsibility, but you're ready to find your way back to peace? My wife just started creating content around sourdough, something she's genuinely passionate about, and here's what that's teaching her about herself. You've been crushing it. You've been selling your bread. Everyone wants to learn from you. Like, you are the sourdough queen right now.

It's so good. It's— mm.

By you giving them the blueprint on making the perfect sourdough. That's like, wow.

It killed my confidence. It killed my confidence. And a lot of people out there are the same way. I've had so many messages from people saying, I tried but I failed.

And you're not only helping them overcome their limiting beliefs with the process of sourdough, but you're giving them the permission to do things that they could not do.

Not only am I helping other women gain the confidence, actually just make bread, there are so many women that are pregnant, they're stay-at-home moms, they're in a newborn journey, that they have extra time, but they necessarily can't work, finding an extra source of income out of something they love.

You just made a strawberry cream cheese one, a strawberry cheesecake one, like what, chocolate chip banana. How does a person find their person when it comes for sourdough?

So I want to start it off with saying—

Welcome back to the podcast. I'm your host Justin Page. I'm here with my co-host Cassandra Page. And today we are struggling with, again, getting on the same page. Today is going to be a little special because Cassandra has dove into a new endeavor about her life and what it is that she enjoys doing. So we're curious to figure out why, how, and what's to become of this new venture, because I'm sure there's a lot of women out there watching. You are probably watching right now going through the same thing that Cassandra is about to unpack. So let's blow your mind and let's start off with Cassandra.

Yes.

How did you get into sourdough?

Well, I feel like it's been really hot lately in the past 2 years and I've been wanting to try it for so long, try making it for so long. We bought it several times from people around us and it's so good. It's Mm. Every time I eat it, I just contemplate why I keep buying store-bought sourdough because I don't know how to make it. And I'm, I'm not being dramatic. Honestly, it's so good. So I've been wanting to make it for a very long time, but I've always been hesitant because if anyone knows sourdough, they know that it can look like it's very complicated. It's a science experiment essentially because it's It's not a one-size-fits-all, and it takes usually around 2 days to make a loaf. So I was like, okay, where do I start? How do I do this? What's even a good way to make a starter? There's so much into it, and I was confused. So it took me a very, very long time to start.

And do you think that, well, first and foremost, store-bought sourdough is like There's so many different types of sourdoughs to buy at the store. There's so many different ingredients that they put in, so many different shapes of sourdough. You know, out of all the breads that are out there, pumpernickel, um, I was about to name a bunch, but never mind. I don't know why I said pumpernickel.

Rye.

Rye. Yeah. Why is sourdough popular?

First of all, sourdough is very interesting because it's a process. It's not just, here's the recipe, let me put it together in an hour, and boom, here's the product. It's a process. So I think it's going viral because there are so many things that can go wrong, and because of that, people are going online showing their failures, and everyone and their mother is commenting on how to troubleshoot, how to adjust things. So it's gaining so much traction because everyone's collaborating online on how to actually make a sourdough. And essentially it kind of gives you 100 million opinions and, okay, what do I actually follow? I'm sure there's 100 ways to do it, but what's one tried and true way? So that's where it gets really confusing. And not only sourdough, it's delicious. First of all, it's popular because it's delicious.

I agree.

You can't deny that. But it's also an art.

Mm-hmm.

And it's a science.

Mm-hmm.

Science and art. So it's both sides of the brain because it's a science. You're growing something. It's not a one-size-fits-all. That's why people are going online, because you got to troubleshoot it. You got to adjust it to your home's temperature, um, humidity, so many things. And on top of that, you can do so much. You could do so many flavors. You could do so many shapes. You could do nice designs. You can make it savory or sweet. So people are going on not only figuring out how to actually make a sourdough, but getting ideas on how to be creative with it. And because of that, there's a whole community out there for sourdough lovers, people that want to get into sourdough. And honestly, it's not boring. People think sourdough is boring. It's not.

I like when you said people posting their failures, because negativity on social media attracts people to watch. So they'd rather see the failures, but people like to be opinionated with failures. So they can chime in and say, this is what you need to do. Yeah, instead of someone coming saying, this is the perfect way to make sourdough. Here's my— this is why my sourdough is not coming out better. These are the mistakes I'm making with my sourdough. My sourdough turned into this. What went wrong.

Yeah.

And it, it gives people the permission to jump in and give their opinions.

Yep.

But like you said, it gets overwhelming, especially to somebody who's learning how to make sourdough. Like, like Reddit or whatever you're going through, you're reading through everything. And this opinion says this, you need to feed your starter at 7:00 AM. Oh, you need to bake it at this temperature. Your house needs to be set at this. It's so overwhelming.

Yeah.

That some people get turned off. And they would rather go to the store and buy the bread instead of making it themselves because it becomes overwhelming. It becomes stressful. And baking, as stressful as it can be, I guess should not be stressful. It should be an outlet.

Yep.

And I guess with you, because, and I'm glad you said the arts and science because you, in one episode you said you're not artistic at all.

I'm not.

You don't like the arts and the science. You like the facts and all that, like, and you're not great with your hands when it comes to that. No offense, I love you. But if you're listening to this and you're a high-income W-2 professional and you feel like you're working hard but building nothing that's actually yours, let me talk to you for a second. You probably make some really good money. You're disciplined, you're driven, you've built a solid career, but deep down inside, you know you're capable of doing more. And I don't mean no more shifts or more ownership. Maybe you thought about building something special online using your knowledge, your experience, maybe even your perspective, but you either overthink it or you don't start because you don't have a clear structure. Now, that's why I created the Post to Profit Challenge. It's a live 3-day coaching experience with me. We do it all on Zoom, and you also get private access to a community with other high-income professionals building alongside you. And during those 3 days, I walk you through how to position yourself properly, how to turn what you already know into a simple offer, and how to build towards multiple 5-figure months using your content. If you're serious about building something that's yours instead of just collecting a paycheck for someone else's dream, click the link below and join the next Post to Profit Challenge. And if you're serious about implementation, I highly recommend to upgrade to the VIP because that's what we're gonna go and dig deeper into your specific situation live. All right, now let's get back into the video. What made you say like, this is my jam, like I like to do sourdough?

Well, now that I'm getting into my married life or, you know, settled into the home, my marriage, and a new phase of life, I'm not just young 20s going out partying. I want to do things that bring joy to other people. So not only does it bring joy to me, I love carbs, you know, I love a carb. But when I make it for someone else or I show someone how to make sourdough and it brings them so much joy and confidence, it just, it fills my cup. And not only that, when I, I mean, yeah, I'm not artistic, but I think I just never found my niche. So by doing sourdough, something that I'm confident I have building blocks. Okay, I could do a plain loaf and then I start putting inclusions, which are the ingredients to add into a plain loaf. And okay, maybe one's a flop. How do I adjust it to make it better? And I am a scientist by heart. I am actual scientist.

True.

So I think I had to find something that bridges those two worlds.

I like that. And by you bridging those two worlds, and I'm going to jump ahead of myself, Like you are the sourdough queen all of a sudden. Like you literally right before we sat down, you gave someone your starter to help them build their sourdough journey. And they just sent you a video. Is that their first bread?

Their first loaf. Beautiful. Perfect.

They made their first loaf by you giving them the blueprint on making the perfect sourdough. And they gave you the feedback right away and said it came out perfect. I sent you the pictures, the testimonies. Like, you've been crushing it. You've been selling your bread. You— everyone wants to learn from you. Like, you are the sourdough queen right now. Like, that is wild to even think. And maybe you're not thinking that you are.

Yeah.

And I'm gassing you up because I'm going to, because you need to know that you are becoming that person. So the viewer who is watching, that's worth it.

You wanna get into sourdough.

But we'll jump back. Because I wanted to use that as the beginning of the video to give you the credibility first.

Yeah, thank you.

Um, but you got into the science of it. You wanted to bridge what you already had interest in, which was scientific value. You know, you want to be a doctor, all that fun stuff. And then you like embracing wifehood and emerging that together. How did you overcome the overwhelming information online to find your lane with making your bread the way it is?

Okay, so I want to start it off with saying I am not a baker. I have barely used the oven. I didn't even have any baking essentials. I barely had a cooling rack. I had to get a new one. And I think a lot of people can relate to that because if you're not in the kitchen actively, you don't have any of the essentials. You're not confident with baking at all. And I can say that I went from pretty much ground zero to picking one of the hardest things to bake. And that's on each side of the spectrum. So, um, going from that side to the other side, I found a shortcut. Which essentially you just need to find someone that'll show you the way. Simple as that. Because anyone that's into sourdough or has been watching sourdough videos knows that once you start watching sourdough videos, a million pop up, and then it becomes overwhelming, and you start just binge-watching everything. Everyone has their own recipe, their own starter, how they got it, how they keep it alive, how they feed it, how they make the bread. There's a million ways to do sourdough. And you know, there are, so you can make it one way and it's perfect in another way, but it's just a matter of finding the way that works for you and your house and not mixing up 10 different recipes, like getting a step from each different recipe and it flopping.

Yeah.

Because I see those videos all over online. So I knew someone in our neighborhood that makes sourdough and she loves it. That's how we first started eating sourdough, is getting it homemade from her. And she was always super helpful, said whenever you want to learn, I'll show you. And we've been pushing her too to do, you know, post her stuff online, all those things. But I think she just wants to do it more leisurely, you know, act of love.

Yeah.

Which that's what sourdough is, is act of love. And she was so generous to give me some of her starter and come over and show me at least the beginning steps on how to make sourdough, which is the hardest part, just starting. Yeah, anything is just starting.

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So finding someone to show you the way that can be there either virtually or in person saying, this is the first step, this is how you do it, this is how it should look. Because it's not just, you know, one size fits all. It is also how it feels, how jiggly it is, how bubbly it is, how much it grew. And it is also something that you just play it by ear, play by eye, essentially.

Okay.

So that built the confidence. And knowing that if I fail, I'll just try it again. But the hardest part was the first step, which is the starter. And that's essentially what you feed to make your bread grow and become bubbly and airy. And I tried getting starter online and rehydrating it and then it becoming moldy. And it just, it killed my confidence. It killed my confidence. And a lot of people out there are the same way. I've had so many messages from people saying, I tried, but I failed. Help me. So I firsthand related to that. And you can rehydrate a starter. You can make a starter from scratch, flour and water. But the easiest way is to get starter from someone else that's hydrated. It's growing. They use it and just either pay them or if they want to give it free. Just get a little jar, heck, even a tablespoon, and then grow it from there.

So for the beginning person who knows nothing about creating sourdough, like for me, for example, I go to store, I buy it. I see it. Cool. It's sourdough. You say starter. What is, what's the starter?

So starter in essence is flour and water. And by mixing it and letting it ferment, it creates wild yeast and lactic acid bacteria, which gives sourdough that tangy taste. So it's essentially alive, which is why you have to feed it to keep it alive and growing. Because it eats, it ferments, it's good for the gut.

Yeah.

I think that's why it's also popular. You know, the girlies love things that are good for the gut.

Probiotics, prebiotics, all the biotics.

All the biotics, yes.

Makes sense. Okay, because I'm thinking of a starter and I don't know why, because you said scientist and I took chemistry. I'm thinking about the slide scope and feeding some type of little microorganism and I'm watching it do its cellular—

yeah, what is that called?

What is that called when it, uh, phagocytosis?

When it eats something?

Yeah, yeah, I can't remember that. Dang, your boy is good. Craziness. Okay, so you get a starter that is pretty much yeast that's growing. How much— okay, this is probably getting too technical, but how much starter do you use in a bread?

Depends how much bread you want to make. In a regular loaf, I use for my recipe 100 grams of starter, which if anyone's watching through the video, it's about this much of starter in your recipe. So you really only— even when I use up all my starter and it's just sticking to the sides of the jar, I feed it and let it grow again, and then I just keep using it. So you essentially don't need a lot to start off with, but you have to feed it first and grow, then bake it with it within a couple hours or the next day.

Okay, which is how you can keep using the same starter.

Yes.

Okay, because I'm thinking about you buy a starter from somebody, they give it to you. It's a little bit, you feed it, it grows, you use it X amount, not obviously not all of it, but you use enough for your bread. Then let that starter do its thing and then you keep feeding that and it keeps getting bigger. Now, is there a way that starter gets too big? Like if you feed—

Yeah, you can. Yeah. There's a lot of people, if you're, if you're chronically online, you see those TikToks where it's this huge jar, they pick up the lid and it's just gushing out because it's growing so much. And it's so happy and healthy and strong. And those are honestly the ones that go pretty viral because they're like, what the heck is that? What is even sourdough?

Now, is that a good starter to buy from?

Yeah, because it's happy. It's healthy. It's obviously really active. The best starters to get. So first of all, there's 3 ways to do starter. It's one, you can do it from scratch with flour and water. And start growing that, which is really hard because it's going from nothing to something that needs to become strong.

Mm-hmm.

In order to make a nice fluffy bread.

Makes sense.

And then the other way to do it is buy a dehydrated starter online. So essentially someone dried out their starter and put it into a powder form and sold it to you, and then you rehydrate it and use that, which that's a really great form. Because it's already— hopefully you bought it from someone that dehydrated it and it was a really strong starter. They used it for months to years and kept it strong. There's strength to that starter. And then the last way is to have it already, like how Krystal gave me her starter, something that's hydrated, it's wet, it's active. I essentially just need to feed it a little bit more and grow it, make my bread.

Okay. Yes.

So easiest way, get hydrated starter. Second easiest way, dehydrated. Hardest way, start from scratch.

But right off rip, the cheat code is to get starter that's already started.

Yes.

Cheat code. And that'll skip days, weeks, months worth of hassle, especially trying to grow your own. And you're like, it's like planting a seed. Plant a seed for this tree that you're waiting for to one day get the fruit, but you realize the seed was a a different seed or it was a bad seed.

Yeah.

So you have to now plant another seed and it's like that kind of process waiting over and over. Skip that step, skip the headache, the heartache, the frustration, the overwhelming feeling. Either get the dehydrated or upgrade to the—

Yes.

Ready Now starter.

And if you're thinking, I don't know anyone that could give me hydrated starter that's already baking, my sister, who I taught her recently, I showed her the start to finish product. She made a perfect sourdough. She got it from someone in her neighborhood that was selling sourdough that graciously sold it to her for like $20. And she actually, after she made it, she made a perfect sourdough. She killed it because she left it on a hot stove, which it's very hard to kill a starter. Once you have it and it's a strong, healthy girl, it's very hard to kill it. There's probably one way, which is putting it on a very hot stove.

One way is what she did. Yes.

Or forgetting, not feeding it for a long time while it's out. But you can keep it in your fridge unfed for a long time.

But okay.

Yeah.

And you jumped ahead to your sister. Your sister is one of the most difficult people to teach something to because she's very—

Yes.

Hands-on, opinionated, like anxious.

She's anxious girl.

Yeah, anxious individual. So for her, and I'm just going to give you credibility for what you're doing, you were able to teach her. And by the way, her sister lives in Guam.

So it's not like she lives in Washington.

For you guys, her sister lives in Washington. So it's not like a, we're in the kitchen together, we're doing this and hands-on. No, it's like FaceTiming, letting you know, let me see what you're doing. Let me give you the instructions. Like this is, it's not easy doing something like this. Coaching someone who's kind of not coachable. Sorry if you're watching this, Kira, I love you. But for her to be able to make her first bread with your instructions, not even your starter, but just your instructions alone. That's like, wow. Like, that's— I think that's pretty impactful. I don't know if you ever had to stop and think about that movement that you've made there, but you were able to create the ability for someone to do something like that. And I think that's unlocking some powerful things in the mind.

Yeah.

I want to give you credit for that because I think that's huge. A lot of people don't see themselves doing that. And I kind of sit back and I see a lot of things unfolding for people's mental states. I don't know how I got into this mental coaching, but sure. But just seeing that and it gives people the smile and the like, I did it. Oh my gosh, I get this can be done. I think that's super cool. But back to the dough.

For her, so back to how easy it is to get started. One, she reached out to someone random in Washington to get started and she actually killed it. And then she was too ashamed to ask that person for more. So she randomly found another person in her community. That gave it to her for free. And trust me, there's a lot of people out there that are doing sourdough. They're usually low-key people. You just got to find them. So if you want to skip all the frustrating steps and go to the part that's fun, get an active starter that's hydrated from someone in your community. Trust me, they're out there.

That's awesome. And yeah, my mind's just wrapping around that whole thing. For the person who, I guess when you made your first bread, like what was that feeling when you did your loaf and you cut into it, you tasted it, like what did you feel?

Yeah, so I went from even just the courage to start, Krystal coming over and walking through the steps, I was already, I was very, very anxious. And overwhelmed even while someone was showing me the steps because I was like, okay, is it going to work out? Is it going to work out? Every single step, is it going to work out? I really hope it does. And at the end when I made the bread and it looked great from the outside, but you know, it can look great from the outside, but when you cut into it and it's dense or not airy or it's gummy, you're like, oh gosh, it's a flop. But I cut into my very first loaf And it was gorgeous. It was beautiful. It was yummy. And you're almost shocked because the whole time you're doubting yourself the first time because it is a whole process. It's a science experiment and you're doubting yourself. And to cut into it and see like, oh my gosh, I actually did it. Like, there's no way.

Yeah.

It builds that confidence that it's not that hard. It's not that hard. All you have to do is be confident and have a tried and true process. Someone that can, even as simple as sending pictures of it at its bulk fermenting phase and be like, does it look like I— does it look ready to do my— to add my inclusions or roll it into a ball? Is it ready? And then someone be like, okay, do a touch test, do a jiggle test.

Yeah.

Did it grow twice as much? You know, things simple as that, just guidance. To give you confidence. And once you make it for the first time, it comes out good, it almost supercharges you like, okay, let's do inclusions, let's try it again. And if it flops, it's okay, you've done it before, you can do it again.

I want to step back because you said having the third eye, a third perception or third perspective from somebody to look at that, because in your mind the entire time while you're in the process, you're so overwhelmed second-guessing yourself, doubting yourself, not allowing yourself to let time do its thing and thinking, oh, do I need to feed it? Do I need to do this? So it is extremely important, it sounds like, to have that person on the side who you can send a simple picture, make the phone call, send a text message. This is what's going on. What's my next step?

Yes.

At least for that first one.

Yes.

They give you that comfortability to say, okay, I am doing this right. Maybe I'm overthinking this. So you need that person.

You need that person. And I think that's why so many people are online posting their fail videos or reaching out to sourdough experts online that they know have made a good bread, commenting on their posts like, hey, they'll even just put a picture in the comment of their bread, like, what went wrong? Or this is what I did, what should I adjust? And they're reaching out to random people online.

Yeah. Which What's their credibility?

What's their credibility? Or they're not there. They didn't know the other steps of the process. It's a quick question. They didn't know exactly what you did from step A to Z. And so if there's someone that you can have at arm's length that already knows what you've been doing, so when you ask your question, they also know the background. What's the word? They have context to your sourdough.

Yeah.

And that's important too, because you can't just ask a quick question. People can just give out suggestions. Maybe it'll work. Maybe it won't, but it's better to have someone that has context that you trust.

If you give them your picture, it might create even more problems because now they're trying to give you a solution that works for them in their controlled environment versus what you actually went through and how you're able to overcome the issues that you're having. So blanket statements, which can cover all problems, which won't help your specific problem. And then two, I think this is your problem, but I just made your problem even worse by giving you this one suggestion that, and again, who am I to, I only made one bread, so I'm letting you know this is what you need to do.

Yeah.

I think that's, that's pretty big.

And sourdough does take, for me, I like to put a lot of time and effort into each step. So there's people that do like shortcuts and, you know, to get their bread faster than normal. And sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. But I like to follow my tried and true process, which takes 2 days. And to get an outside opinion and have to restart that if I failed, to fail again over 2 days, that's a lot of time. Not only did I waste my time 2 days taking someone else's opinion that didn't work for me, but I also wasted ingredients, money, power, water. I wasted a lot. I wasted my heartache.

Heartache, time, tears, frustration.

Yeah. So it's wonderful seeing a beautiful sourdough loaf, but when you fail, it can be very discouraging. And I think that's so important to build confidence, have someone they can reach out to, and also know that it's not always going to be perfect because even when I try new flavors and it becomes watery and maybe my sourdough didn't come out as perfect as usual, I just know like, I just need to tweak things. And you learn over time what works, what doesn't, and also have experts at hand to help you.

I like that. How does a person find their person when it comes for sourdough? Well, all the gurus on there, like you just said, and I'm struggling, the viewer who's struggling, who's making sourdough, and they're like, I don't know who to trust. I, I ChatGPT make the bread and it's given me this cookie cutter simulation on how to make my perfect loaf, but I need help. Like, how do you find the trust to be able to do that with all the people making bread?

Yeah. So first of all, if you've ever bought sourdough bread, you already know someone that has a good recipe that's in your state that has the same climate as you, maybe not the same house climate, but overall climate. You know, baking sourdough in the winter is different from baking sourdough here in Florida because the temperature is different. Um, so find someone that already— you see a good sourdough, you've tried it, you tasted it, you like it, and ask for assistance from them. Or for me, that's what I did, but I find it hard to go to someone online that has like a million followers and trying to ask questions because they're either not going to reply or they give you that cookie-cutter answer and they don't know your context. So find someone with probably a smaller following because sourdough people are— they yearn to help other people because they love what they do, they love the outcome, and they want to see people also have the same outcome.

Yeah.

And I mean, I have a tried and true recipe that I like and you just, it's the beginning recipe is not the problem. It's the time and seeing when it's ready is the problem. So that's where you need someone to help you identify, is it ready or not?

Yeah.

And that takes someone that's actively going to be in your community telling you like, yeah, it looks good.

I would try to compare that to me and doing bodybuilding. Where I do my prep for my competition and my entire prep for 16 weeks, dieting, exercising, posing, all that stuff, to finally tuning it in for the final week of my peak week to being on stage, where I need that person to help me dial in to look presentable and the ideal package for the final presentation on stage, which would be similar to the bread.

Yeah.

Where you have The beginning stage is one part. All I gotta do is stop eating this food and walk more.

Lift weights, stop eating so much.

Easy enough. Then when I started dialing in, tweaks is what could make or break the final package where your bread becomes too airy, gummy, like you said, it's not dense. You want it dense or less dense?

Less dense. You want it airy, or maybe you left it in the fridge too long overproofing, and then suddenly you're making focaccia.

Same. So yeah, so like over-dieting, overdoing cardio, now your muscles get stringy. Now you look like you're not full on stage. Your muscles are just all, they're stringy, you know, you don't look presentable. Like that's how my mind functions when we're talking about the, the process of sourdough. Crazy how everything has a similar process.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. Um, you talked about inclusions and maybe this might be getting ahead, but there's so many types of sourdoughs. Like you said, savory, there's sweet, there's You just made a strawberry cream cheese one or strawberry cheesecake one. Like what? Chocolate chip, banana, the brown sugar cinnamon, the jalapeño cheddar, the classic, the firecracker jalapeño cheddar, you know, hot honey. There's so many flavors that you can do. Like, if someone wanted to do flavors, how do they even jump into that?

I would go with starting simple. Starting dry. So what I mean by that is working with wet ingredients, that can cause your dough to, first of all, flatten, not become as poofy, therefore making it more dense. And it can— I mean, honestly, even when that happens, the bread still tastes good, but it's not a classic sourdough. A lot can go wrong, or it can burn because the sugar turned liquidy and seeped into the outside, and it's a watery, burned mess. So there's, there's a lot can go wrong. So to make it easy, I would start testing out inclusions with dry ingredients. So, um, jalapeños, cheddar cheese is good too, as long as you don't get too much on the outside. You make sure it's packed on the inside. It's— that's easy to work with. Um, and also dried fruit. So instead of doing fresh fruit and mixing that in, getting pure dried fruit. So not, not anything with like all these additives, but just organic dried fruit comes out the same, but it doesn't make, it doesn't affect your loaf because it didn't add water to it.

Yeah. So could you technically do less water when you're making the dough and add that in there and it could theoretically give it more water from the wet fruit or wet occlusions?

Mm. If you're folding it in during the stretch and folds and then it still becomes watery, No, because the water seeps out. But essentially, if you do like a banana loaf, instead of doing bananas in the stretch and folds in the layers, you can exchange a little bit of water for the banana when you actually make your dough. So it's cohesively throughout your dough and it substituted a little bit of the water for the banana. It just depends. But one, ask someone that's already doing it or go online. And search up banana chocolate sourdough and see what people have done already.

Yeah.

Look at the outcome of their dough. So not just how they're prepping it, but did it even come out good? But then that takes a lot of legwork, trial and error. You may follow exactly what they did, but it comes out floppy. But my biggest piece of advice is when you're doing inclusions, start off, don't overpack it to start off. Start off slow, be very delicate when you roll it into a ball and fold it that it doesn't bust from the seams and bake from there. And then you can adjust as you go.

Stretch and folds.

What?

Explain that.

Yeah. Okay, so why don't we just talk about the process of sourdough first? Yes. So we can reference everything.

We're using some big terms here.

One. You want to grow your starter so that you can use it in baking later. So you want to make more of it. You want to make, grow it, make more of it. Then two, you're going to mix all your ingredients once the starter is growing, you have enough.

It's in a mixing bowl.

Yes, in a mixing bowl, you mix the flour, the water, the salt, and the starter.

Got it.

Mix that up into a shaggy dough.

Shaggy.

Mm-hmm. You let it sit for an hour. This is what I do. You let it sit for an hour and then there comes the stretch and folds. So essentially you grab from each corner. So out of the 4 corners of your dough, pick it up from underneath, pull it up, slap it down. So stretch and fold. Ah, yes.

I'm thinking you're like stretching it and you're like folding it.

Some people do like an undertuck and pull it up and flop it down. There's different techniques. Some people put it in a mixer and actually have a mixer do their stretch and folds for them, essentially just like you're only like stretching it and pulling it together, build strength in the dough. So you're building strength for your, I guess, essentially for your bread later on so that it can be that nice, beautiful, airy, fluffy dough.

Yeah.

It's a process.

It is.

Okay, so some people do a couple rounds, 2 rounds. I do 4 rounds of stretch and folds. I can adjust, but my tried and true 4 rounds always comes out perfect. So I don't— why break what's not broken?

Yeah.

And then you let it sit for X amount of hours. So maybe 4 hours, maybe 12 hours, depending on the temperature of your home. And it's gonna grow. Okay. And then depending on how it looks, how much it grew, you know it's ready. And then We're not going to talk about inclusions.

Skip that step.

You want to— once it's ready and it's the perfect airiness, it made some bubbles, it's jiggly, it's not as sticky, it grew, then you're going to lay it out on your table into a square. And then that's when you're going to make it into your— it's called a bowl, which is the round dough. You're going to fold it, roll it up into a bowl, and you kind of— you do— you work with it and you make it into a nice strong ball.

Got it.

Then you stick it into your banneton or a basket. You could just use a bowl with a cotton towel too. And you stick it in the fridge. So let me backtrack. After you did your stretch and folds, when it grows, that's called bulk fermentation. It's fermenting and it's bulking up. Okay. Then you laid it out, you put it into a ball, caught a bowl, bowl. And then you put it in the fridge and that's called proofing. So you're cold proofing it and it's going to sit in there. You could do 1 hour. Some people do that. I like to do mine at least for 8 to 12 hours so that it can grow a little bit. But essentially this is where it builds its sourdough taste, more sourdough taste, a little tanginess. And it, it, it's essential. You don't want to skip this step. So none of the steps you want to skip. And then once that's done, you can take it out and it's ready to bake. Okay. But you also got to do your scoring, which you just do cuts in the dough so that it has room to expand.

So it doesn't crack or—

Yes, yes. You want it for it to become like fluffy and airy. You don't want too much tension up top. So you got to make some slits in it so that it has room to expand and become that puffy, beautiful dough.

That's why people start doing their designs at the top. Yes, they're scoring designs. Is there a technical term?

It's called scoring.

Well, I know that, but I mean like there's like levels to scoring.

Yeah, there's definitely levels. I, I'm not an artist. I'll become better, but I usually do my basic leaves and or even just an, um, an X or a cross, um, or even just one ear. So one nice long C on one side.

Okay. Wow. All right, guys, we had a masterclass breakdown on how to make sourdough. So if you were wondering the step-by-step process, she just gave us the full class on that.

And that's just the generalization. So if you want like the nitty-gritty details on how to make the sourdough, reach out. I'm happy to share my recipe and guide you in that process.

That's very generous because, um, it's a hit, which is great. So you got the process down. You've— well, I've positioned you to be the person to put the bread out there. Bye. So she made her first bread, and mind you, I'm not there for the process, so she's explaining, and this is kind of foreign to me because I'm not in the kitchen with her making this. She's doing this on her own. I'm giving her the tools to make the content, to make the videos for, which is what the next step of this podcast may or may not be, only for time's sake. But when she made her first bread and this thing was huge, like she makes 2-pound bread, like sourdough, like they're huge. And I don't, you see some sourdoughs and they're cutting the loaves and and they kind of look all right. They taste good, but they're like, eh. Like her bread, and not to say, you know, because she's my wife, but her bread is banging. I ain't gonna lie. Like it's crazy good. But it's so thick and dense that when I saw this bread, I just immediately posted online. I said, we opened up shop. We're selling sourdough. Click the link if you want to buy. Like right off rip. Didn't even—

Without my consent.

Without even her consent. And that was her first bread. I'm just throw it out there. We had so many people hit us up, hit me up about the bread that we were talking about doing random inclusions. They're like, oh, what kind do you do? And I'm telling her what people are asking for. So she's like, well, I've never made that, but let's do it. And she is making, I mean, the jalapeño cheddar, that's like a staple, but the hot honey, the rosemary. What's with the rosemary?

Rosemary garlic.

Rosemary garlic, tomato basil. There's so many different types you can do. And she's making these bread, she's making these, uh, these loaves, and I'm selling them, and people are eating it, and the feedback that we're getting is crazy. And I'm like, I need you to be brutally honest with the reviews, with— because we want to make the bread better, you know. We're not ego or anything like that. Like, I need the raw truth. Like, what should— even if it's a small tweak, like, hey, less jalapeños for this one, something, I don't care. And people don't have anything, like nothing, which is wild. Like, even we had this RJ, who's in my ministry for our men's group at church. He's a hardcore Italian. Like, he gave us a story, like he's a bread fanatic. He's like, he only goes to this one bakery downtown in Tampa with this old grandma who's from Italy making it. Like, he's like that kind of guy. He said, I'm gonna be real with you about this bread. I'm gonna let you know. And I'm sorry if I hurt feelings. Sure. That's what we need. This man sent a video back and he was like, I couldn't find anything wrong with this bread. It was so good. The only problem was, is I need more.

Or he ate it in 2 days.

He ate it in 2 days. He was like, I snuck a piece. I was supposed to eat it for breakfast, but I snuck a piece and it went downhill from there. And that, that is, that's crazy. So the process is great. The testimonies is like bonanza. Like what? And again, you were never gonna do something like this at all. It was, uh, I'm gonna dabble in this kind of you know, situation and see what it's like and make bread. And again, Krystal, if you're watching this, I'm sorry, but I try to push Krystal to doing what she's doing. But Krystal is like, she wants it to be a hobby, which I understand. Sometimes you don't want to take things and make it more stressful on yourself.

She sells it too. But I think it's one of those things where it almost feels like work and sourdough is an act of love. So it's a delicate balance of it feeling like work and becoming a monster that's stressful.

Yeah. Because the process is wild.

The process is a lot. And if you have— not only is she already baking, but also thinking about the content posting online, like, it's a lot that can go into it.

Yeah.

But she may still do it.

She may.

Yeah.

Um, but it's a lot to take on at once.

You just don't want to turn something that is a beautiful art into a demanding process. Into a demanding process. And luckily for me, I have you as my soundboard that gives me lots of guidance, helps me on my— knows how to edit everything. So you make the process so much easier, and you're also my in-house coach and accountability partner. Because if it was just up to me, I'd still— I wouldn't have even sold one loaf. I would have just been baking it, eating it, getting fat.

Yeah, me too.

I'd be eating it, getting fat, and I'd just be making sourdough in my nice little corner forever.

Yeah.

I don't think anyone would've ever even tasted my sourdough.

And I bring that up because there's some people who are business mindset-wise, and, and there's people that are hobbyists where they wanna make bread for their family, which is perfectly beautiful. They wanna maybe make it for church, make it for work, bring it to a potluck. There's, and you can still do that. But then for the next person watching this, because again, this podcast is geared towards business development with marriage, through spiritual values, with fitness. I mean, there's so much that we encompass, but at the very core, how am I able to make money off of this bread that I'm doing? And the goal is to help other people realize you can make money off the bread, skip process and skip steps to get to it instead of spending all your money on these ingredients, which is not cheap in bulk. And your class and your time is super valuable. It's how do I turn this into a business? And it's a powerful thing to position yourself into. And I'm not going to work. We won't go into this on this podcast. This is just talking about we're breaking, we're making bread. Like then the next podcast would be like, we're making bread from the bread. You're making bread from the bread because now you're, you're starting to do it. Maybe you're sitting on the fence thinking, I don't know where to start, or I don't know who to watch, I don't know who to consume, I feel overwhelmed. Now you at least have some insight on where to start, you know, get your, get your feet wet with what I need to do, break the limiting beliefs on I can't do this. This girl, she's beautiful and she's great, but when it comes to baking and stuff, she's very timid. And for her to make this kind of jump, let alone being on a podcast in front of you, there's been a lot of Mountains being moved right now. You guys are watching and witnessing in 2026, a lot of self-growth, a lot of self-growth. And we're only in 5 months in of this year, and there's been a tremendous change with what's going on in this household, which is— thank you, Lord. But back to the bread. So you made your bread, you've sold some bread, you made a little bit of bread. You're building up other women who are feeling, feeling overwhelmed with creating sourdough. And you're not only helping them overcome their limiting beliefs with the process of sourdough, but you're giving them the permission to do things that they could not do. Sourdough and baking aside, how does it feel to be able to empower other women who were once where you were at to get them to where you're at now?

Well, first of all, that's the best part. Excuse me. Because it's great selling the sourdough and seeing people's reaction that it tastes so good and I'm bringing them—

Every episode our dog chimes in. Okay.

It's one thing to sell the sourdough and get people's reactions. It's beautiful. But the better thing is when I actually teach someone how to do sourdough. I give them starter to make their sourdough and they send me pictures all lit up because their bread came out beautiful or they need help with something and they are just excited because they're not only having a product, but they learn a process to continue doing. And it built confidence for them too. And I know for all these people that reached out and I helped them with their starter and sourdough, they've been wanting to do it for a long time too. The last person I helped, she had all the things from her husband that were gifted to her to make the sourdough for several months. And I know how that feels because that was me too at one point. And you just never started or you failed making a starter. And it just took someone else, me talking to her about, I made sourdough and it's been awesome. And me being generous and giving my sourdough because, you know, she's a church friend. I'm like, I want— she's on her journey. And I was so excited for her to do it with me too and be in our community together. And seeing them have a successful loaf and be so excited about it. That brought me so much joy that I wanted to continue doing that for other people. And not only that, now that they're making sourdough, we're on this journey forever. So we're going to send each other our different loaves that we're making, or even with the sourdough starter discard, what other things like brownies, muffins, whatever, pizza dough that we can make with it. So it's a never-ending journey. And we can learn from each other. So if there's an inclusion that I didn't make yet that I see her doing, I'm like, oh my gosh, that looks so good. Like, How did you add the lemon taste? Was it lemon curd? Was it lemon juice? Was it lemon zest? Who knows? All the above. And it just fosters a community of women that have confidence in something because, you know, life is really, really hard and hectic and can be crazy. But when you find something that you have confidence in, that can be very therapeutic because you're in the kitchen baking. Especially if you're just baking for yourself, you're at your own pace.

Yeah.

And then on top of that, you have a community of women with you. What more could you ask for? It's true. And you're feeding your family around you. You're bringing a lot of people joy around you. It's not just something you keep for yourself, like, oh, we're all making pottery together and it just sits there or you gift it. But people are breaking, they're actually breaking bread together.

I love that.

They're breaking bread together. Which brings you and your family closer together. It's an act of love. It's a gift. They know how much work went into it. So it brings just endless love tenfold.

I love that. You said so many great things for your community. Let's break bread together in both breaking bread and then breaking real bread. And the community aspect of women, because when there's something, and I'm going to speak from my point of view because I'm not a woman, but I can only imagine when there's something that troubles you that you want to do, but you're so afraid to even do it because one, you don't have guidance, two, you feel overwhelmed in general thinking about it. You're like, that can't be me, or I can't do that. When you have the I can't, this isn't, the negative words, and then once you are able to find the guidance and overcome that and accomplish the I can't to I did, the way you start to move with anything else you do becomes so powerful. And all it took was that one thing to overcome, which could have happened to have been sourdough. And now you've been able to do— make your content. I was able to come on camera because I'm confident with my sourdough. So I'm confident to show my face on my sourdough. I'm confident to start a business with my sourdough. I'm confident.

There's—

the value ladder just stacks on what can do by breaking one limiting belief. And I think that some people don't think that way because they think of the here and now and the just bread, making the bread in the process. But there's so much more that can be unpacked and unlocked with the opportunity of fulfilling it.

It's, it's a cascade for sure. And not only am I helping other women gain the confidence, actually just make bread, the physical outcome. But there are so many women that are pregnant, they're stay-at-home moms, they're in a newborn journey, that they have extra time but they necessarily can't work. So finding an extra source of income out of something they love— I know so many pregnant women, and even ones that I'm helping now, that are actively selling their sourdough, and it's it's nice to be able to have extra streams of income when you're at a time that you need the income.

Yeah.

That you're growing your family, that you're uncertain. Do I even want to go back to my job? And I think that's a thought that every single woman, at least their first time birth that I've talked to, you know, we haven't had a child yet, but every mom that I've talked to, at least their first child, they contemplate like, I don't want to leave my baby. I don't want to go back to work.

Yeah.

Maternity leave is ending. This is devastating. Like, what else can I do? So many people have either made it work by their husband stepping up and them being a stay-at-home mom even further, or they found a virtual job online, you know, something they can work from home to be a little closer to their child and have childcare at home, but they're still near. And sourdough has become an extra stream of income for them, which is honestly so beautiful.

It's crazy. It's just baking bread.

Just baking bread, but because it is a longer process, it's so overwhelming. It's not bread that you could just whip up and bake. It's easy to market because not only it tastes good, but not many people are doing it.

Yeah.

Because they're at that step where they're like, mm, that's too much work. Or people genuinely don't have the time to make sourdough. Like my mom, she has so many, she's still working with my dad. She has a full-blown garden with every type of vegetable and fruit that she has to tend to, but she loves cooking. She makes recipes that take a few hours, but she cannot be stuck at home for 2 days. You know, you can still go places, but you still have to be back within a certain amount of time to do your stretch and folds or whatnot. So you can't just be gone for the entire day when you should be tending to your bread at certain points in time. She can't make that commitment. So she would love to do sourdough, she just can't. And she loves sourdough, so she would just buy it.

Yeah.

And there are people like that all around. So it's a great business strategy. Mm-hmm. And as long as you scale it the right way, it's profitable X amount exponentially.

Yeah. And again, because you mentioned it earlier, there's so many different types of ways you can make bread, the bagels, pizzas, pretzels. I don't know why that came to mind. I'm sure you can make a lot of people do pretzels. Pretzels, I mean sandwiches, your burgers, regular sourdough for breakfast, a savory pancake, pancakes, waffles. You did make the pancakes and that was pretty fun.

Yeah, honestly you could do so much.

So I'm overwhelmed thinking about it right now.

It, it's so fun because you go from someone, at least me, that I I cook some things here and there, but I wasn't a baker. I didn't make a lot of things from scratch, at least on the baking side. And once you have that starter, it almost ignites something in you like, oh my gosh, I want to try this and that and that. And then you see other people posting it and it just fosters like such a healthy environment in the kitchen that makes you want to do more. And the kitchen goes from a place of like, oh gosh, I got to cook my meal. I got to do that to a place that's fun and enjoyable.

The kitchen has such a negative condensation these days where it's like, there's so much work that has to be done in the kitchen. I have to cook, which I don't like doing. I have to clean, which I don't like doing. It's just negative in the kitchen, but the kitchen should be like a wholesome environment where it's, you relax. Like I remember watching food channels all the time and how happy people are being in the kitchen and making the recipes for the family. And I mean, sure, it might be scripted, but whatever. But the environment was so inviting. It's calm. It's the nice music is playing. I just made my family some nice fresh-squeezed lemonade while I prepare the bison, you know, whatever they're doing in the kitchen. But to bring that happiness, that sensation, that mentality into the kitchen or bring it back there would help your family life. I'm sure that it's going to make less tension if you guys are going through a something, something issue-wise in your family of fights or whatever happens to husband did the dishes. It'll help bridge that gap because now you feel more inviting to be in the kitchen versus being such a chore.

Yeah.

That's what I'm getting at.

You see it in a different light. And now that you mentioned that, Food Network Channel used to be a huge thing. Everyone and their mother, I grew up, everyone watched the Food Network Channel. It was such an enjoyable place. But I honestly feel like we went in such an extreme direction of productivity and also the economy just being up and down that, you know, more people are working all these side hustles and cooking became on— it was on the back burner. So even watching cooking shows, like before I started doing sourdough, I'm stressed because I'm like, gosh, that takes so long. No one has time for any of that. Yeah, not enjoyable.

Got the order out.

Uber Eats is a thing. Nobody really cooks at home.

It's becoming a lost art.

It's a lost art to cook at home. And people that do, they probably have their staples, but it is a lost art to enjoy cooking as opposed to two decades ago. Everyone was doing it. Everyone was cooking things from scratch. Everyone was in the kitchen. And I feel like sourdough is igniting that movement again to be back in the kitchen.

My gosh, it just happens to be sourdough.

It just happens to be sourdough. But you having sourdough and it bridging into so many different recipes brings that excitement back in the kitchen. And then maybe you won't even do anything sour to like, you're confident in the sour, but you want to do all these other homemade things from scratch.

Yeah.

And it's beautiful. And it's honestly a lot more healthy than having 100 ingredients in your food or eating out of plastic containers all the time.

Truth. No, I like that. And you're right because nobody and You live with somebody who cooks. I never order out. So I'm such an extremist when it comes to that where I never order food. I am so meticulous and I think about— thinking about the issues that I'm having when I get my food, the lack of satisfaction. I paid this for this little plate. I'm still hungry. And it feels like I'm paying for more complaints. And I'd rather make it myself because I know what I'm putting in it, especially as a bodybuilder. I know what I'm putting in it. I know when I want to eat because I already have it there. I don't have to go nowhere and I don't pay the Uber Eats tax. Like, I— but I'm a whole— I'm an outlier.

Yes. And I also think as a whole, we're all going through a wellness journey. So rather than just quick fixes and rather than just Uber eating and eating 100-ingredient foods, we're trying to invest in something that's gonna bring wellness to our lives, not just make us skinny.

Yeah.

Not just build muscle, but actually make us better as a whole, that we're going to live longer, we're going to age well, we're going to feel good, not just look good, but feel good.

Can you put protein powder in?

I'm sure you could.

That made me think of like protein sourdough, like high protein sourdough.

Next experiment. So now that people are on their wellness journey, I think that it's gonna, sourdough is so popular because they're not even buying bread at the store, even sourdough at the store that has all these additives. They have bioengineered ingredients in there. It really should be just the plain loaf, 3 ingredients. It's supposed to be almost a, I mean, it's extreme to say call it a whole food because it's not, but it's so close to its pure forms and it has good fermentation in there, good bacteria. That it is easy on the gut. And if anyone's on their wellness journey, I know a lot of people have sensitive guts, that the one bread they can eat is sourdough.

And it's true. When you go to the store and you look at your sourdough that you like, look at the ingredients in the back and count how many ingredients are in sourdough, quote unquote, and how many there should be, which are 3. 3 ingredients that should be there.

Yep.

So watch what you're eating.

Well, I guess 4. Salt, water, flour, and the starter. But essentially starter is made just from water and flour that ferments itself. Is it 3 or 4? You critics decide.

If it's more than 5, run.

And also for the people that also audit things, people always say Aldi is the one place that you can buy a simple ingredient sourdough, which is true. That's the one chain store that you can. But of course, it doesn't taste like the fresh baked bread that you make at home. But if you're desperate and you need something that doesn't have all these chemicals in it, Aldi is your best bet.

True that. Aldi's is the new, the new wave right now. If someone wanted to work with you, what's the one thing you would want them to experience with your process and making the bread?

Have fun. I want them to have fun. And know that it's not that serious. That's true. Yeah. So what I want them to experience is no stress. So I want them to know like this is the tried and true recipe that I give them. And I'm also going to help guide them through the process as you're going through it because of course, there's the staples that you got to do. There's also the experimental aspect of it. So as I'm guiding you, I want you to just feel like if it comes out great, which honestly, I haven't had a failed first person yet. But even if it does, it's not that serious. Let's try again. Because like I said, everyone's household has different circumstances. Your fridge is different circumstances. I want them to feel like it's fun and not that serious.

It comes down to just enjoy the process of what you're doing. Do not feel stressed or overwhelmed because the whole process is to decompress. It's to decompress, not to add compress.

Yes, it should be something that's therapeutic. You're decompressing from your life. You're not— I want you to escape your life to do something that's enjoyable, not add stress to your life.

Yeah.

And take it too seriously because after all, it's supposed to be something that's an art. So it's a product, and you enjoy the process.

I love it. Oh, masterclass on sourdough making today. This page that we're doing is the bread baking page. You guys are interested in learning about more of Cassandra, I'll click, put her information down in the bio as well, put her information in the description. Anything, any final closing thoughts?

I hope everybody tries sourdough, gets on that journey, even the men. It's not just for the woman. I think men would really enjoy sourdough.

So men are getting into sourdough, matcha, quarter zip ties, quarter zip, uh, quarter zip hoodies.

Is that the trend?

Yes, quarter zips with the matcha and the glasses. Oh, that's like where the men are becoming more—

it's when you got the hood boys versus, uh, yeah, the matcha quarter zip guys. Yeah, I could see that, like the cool guys, the They're not cool.

Well, they're cool, but they're like—

I think that's cool.

They're proper, you know, like I went to Princeton.

If I saw someone drinking matcha with their quarter zip and glasses, I'd say I trust that person. He looks responsible.

Oh, she don't trust me. So if you have not had any type of sourdough in your life, highly recommend trying it. At least see what it tastes like. And well, I say that, but get the right sourdough. Find somebody who's making it homemade. Give it a try, especially someone that's reputable. Don't try Facebook Marketplace sourdough. People do sell on there.

Sometimes it could be a little sketch, but yeah, there's a lot of people on Facebook that— there's some great people selling, but I see people that just started making it that are selling all their sourdoughs in bulk, and I'm just like, ooh, those look a little—

yeah, those look sus.

Don't do that there.

But if you guys need more information, definitely click the link below. She'll respond right away. Um, outside of that, thank you guys for joining. We'll catch you in the next one.

Peace.