$400K+ From One Event Without Selling From Stage with Angela Henderson

Hello, my love, and welcome to Seen, the podcast that helps you to stop hiding, claim your worth, and build the most vibrant version of your life possible. Thank you so much for being here. Hello, my love, and welcome to Seen. And today I am so excited to have the most incredible guest, Angela Henderson, join us. And if you haven't heard of Angela before, she is an absolute powerhouse. I'm so impressed by everything you're always doing. She has been in business for decades, starting with an e-commerce store, uh, for 10 years, and then pivoting into online consulting and business coaching where she runs retreats, events, masterminds. To give you an idea, like, you have sold out events where you've made like $400K at one event. Yes. And she's got two kids and has the Healing Center of Australia on top of it. So if you tune into this episode, you are going to really get so much incredible wisdom from Angela, and I'm so excited to dive in. So thank you for being here.

Gosh, so good to be here. I love being around good people. So yeah, I'm just excited to chat.

Yeah, amazing. So I thought I'd start because a lot of the listeners to the podcast, they are getting started in business, or they might have been going for a while, but I feel like a lot of them can be like lacking clarity as to like how to just get to that next level. Like they feel like they're doing all the things and just nothing has like clicked yet, you know. So I would actually love to start by just seeing with you in the online space at the moment, like if you were to start tomorrow and you were some sort of like business coach, consultant, someone like in the service, service providing or like coaching space, how would you start? Like, what do you feel like— I know there's not one size fits all, but if you were to start tomorrow, what would you see is like the easiest path to make good income without sacrificing your life?

Listen, I mean, I think there's 3 things that I would say to start with is there's only 3 ways to gain visibility. It's organic, partnerships, and paid. And in my opinion, if you're not visible, you— people don't know about you. If people don't know about you, you don't have a freaking business. So to me, visibility is key. So if I was to get started, organic is great, but it's really slow. Does it work? Absolutely. But you have to be prepared for it to be slow. Partnerships is my all-time favorite, which I'm going to come back to. It's not as slow, but you still have little waves of ups and downs. And what you're ultimately doing is exchanging time and energy for those partnerships. And then obviously ads work great if you have a really great funnel and your product's already validated, in my opinion. That you're now exchanging money, but you're gaining back time and energy. So if I had to really start now in 2026, I'd be looking at partnerships. So in 2023, I did 121 global partnerships and it was absolutely amazing for my business because what happens is, is you— you're— it's like a bank. You can't go into a bank and withdraw if nothing's there. But once you start to build partnerships and you lead with authenticity, you lead with like love and light. And I say, I know that's a bit cliché, but you're genuinely trying to help the other person. You then and you're not doing it just to have deposits in the bank account, all right? You're doing it because you want to. But eventually when you need a favor, someone's going to turn around and be able to give you a favor. So for example, those 121 global partnerships, we all had different assets that we brought to the table. So even if you're just starting, don't underestimate the assets you have. You might have zero people on your newsletter and you might have zero followers, but maybe you're really well connected with a whole bunch of people. That black little black little black book can be a huge asset for yourself. So to me, Katie, I'd be looking, how can you lean into partnerships? And people go, well, how— what if I don't know anyone? For example, you are creating a commercial space here in Noosa. Partnerships is going to be a really great place if you're able to go and connect at a coworking facility, come to local events. You don't have to spend copious amounts of money. I steer away from free events because like attracts like. But if you can start paying for $20 events, $50 events, You work the room, not your business card. You listen, again, give value, and then when you're done that event, follow up. Take a selfie with that person, tag them, and then go, how else can I help you? Be of value. Now yes, you might not see the dollar figure right away, but long-term, those relationships, and again, as cliché as it is, your network equals your net worth is 100% true. So if I had to start, I would be doubling down on building partnerships and relationships in order for short-term and long-term ROI. Okay, amazing, I love that.

So when you say partnerships, like, because I totally agree with you on the relationship building, I 100% agree with that. Um, but when you say partnerships, do you also mean having like an official like partnership? Like, talk to me a little bit more about how those all work.

So nothing of the 121 partnerships that I did, nothing was official. But what happens is, is let's just say you write your list of people that you believe that you can benefit from and they can benefit from you. So for example, you and I, we both have a podcast. So I would say, hey, Katie, are you up for doing a joint podcast together? You come on mine, I come on yours. Perfect. We're not competitors in any way. We might have similar things, but there's enough to go around. So we each do a partnership around podcasts. Then I might say, hey, Katie, I've got an email list of 5,000, and you might go, Ange, I've only got an email list of 1,000. Would you be up for maybe including me in something in yours? Um, and I might give you a solo email and you're like, cool, that's great. Then he might say, "Ang, I've got an event coming up too. Do you wanna come speak at my event?" And I go, "Yeah, I'd love to." I might say, "Hey, I've got a mastermind. Do you wanna come speak in mine?" So what happens is, is you write out your level of assets, the other person writes their assets, and you just agree in an informal agreement about what you two are gonna do together. It is such an easy way because what people underestimate is if you do a Facebook ad, those audiences typically cold. You're gonna take time for them to nurture them. But when you work with partnerships, you're actually getting closer to conversion They're warmed, and no one's gonna typically— you're not gonna bring me on my podcast if I'm a douchebag. I'm not gonna bring it on to yours. So you're closer, you're— it's more like a warm client than a cold. You bypass that because you get borrowed trust. Yeah, yeah. So that's why I believe partnerships are underutilized resource but should be definitely thought about.

Okay, so it's more like collaborations in a way. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

People use collaborations, partners, whatever word you want to use.

Sometimes when I think partnership, I think like you're going into some sort of partnership together, you know what I mean? But that's good to clarify. So out of those partnerships, like you've mentioned, one It could be a podcast exchange. Give me some other examples.

Yeah, podcast exchange, newsletter, mastermind, speaker at an event. You might also just like, maybe there's no assets like I said, but that person has 100 connections that you would love access to. I've got 100 connections, cool. Can I just slowly start introducing you to these people? You're like, great, not a problem. And then by default, it just starts happening. Facebook groups is another way. Instagram Lives is another way, just Instagram swaps. YouTube channel, TikTok, there's a, I mean, the list is so long.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's awesome.

And some people will have some of the assets, like I don't have a TikTok channel, but I've got a podcast, so we'll just go, cool, I'll do something on TikTok for you, you do a podcast. So you just work out what's a beneficial agreement between both parties.

Yeah, amazing, and you've seen like measurable ROI from this?

100%, so growth in our email list, for example, increase of discovery calls off the back of those going out. We would also do things like if we were selling something inside of the email, we'd offer like a coupon code so we can track track where that conversion came from. Ticket sales increased. I mean, podcast downloads increased.

Awesome.

Traffic to website increased. And you could obviously also tell because in the backend of Google Analytics, you could see like if I was partnering with the US that month, we would see an increase of traffic from the United States. So there was 100%. And those, those were short-term results, but the long-term results are still available because now I have 121 different people that I'm still connected with on a regular basis, and we'll continue to scratch each other's backs, um, as our businesses grow.

Yeah, I love this. I've got so many thoughts here because one thing is like you want to obviously like give value. I'm such an advocate for that and not be really transactional.

100%.

But I also love that you're kind of like writing it down and saying this is the value exchange, which is good to be clear. So where do you find that line with that? Because I also like to build relationships without being like very tit for tat, but you also need to make sure you're you know, putting your time and energy into the right things where things will be fruitful from that.

Listen, I think again that's where intuition comes into place, but I also just think like you, you're not just going in and asking for sex on the first date. I mean, I definitely am not an advocate for that at all. So by the time you actually formalize a partnership and what everyone's doing, there's already an element of trust there. But there were some people in the US, for example, that I was working with, and they literally had like 200 people on their newsletter list, which is great. We all start somewhere. Um, so I just didn't do, uh, one off email for them, I included them in my monthly newsletter because I still felt like that would give them exposure. They could still grow their email list with the freebie they were doing, but I wasn't exhausting my list or fatiguing my list because of that exchange. So again, and just using your voice, it isn't fair. 200 people, 8,000 people, it's not a fair and equitable exchange. Yeah. So again, you just use your voice and compromise. And of the 121, we all did what we said we were going to do. There was about 5 people that were in addition that didn't do what they said they were going to do. I just am like, "Listen, it is what it is. There was no formal agreement, but I'll just never partner with them again." So, I don't make a big deal about it. I just go, "Yep, no worries." There's a couple people that were genuinely really sick. One got diagnosed with cancer, and a little one was really sick. Fair enough. They just communicated and said, "Hey, I'm not gonna be able to do what I thought I could. Can we come back to this?" "Absolutely. Thank you for communicating." So, Um, yeah. And just remember too, like, for— if you're out there wondering, oh, well, I'm probably going to get more nos, you are. You will get more nos than you will yeses. But just because it's a no now doesn't mean it's a no forever. And you got to grow a backbone, be okay with it being a no. But the people that do say yes, trust that they're the right people for where you're going right now. Don't force things because energetically it will end up bad.

Yeah. And do you have a process for this? Like, are you like, okay, every day I need to reach out to 5 people? Like, do you have some sort of system or how do you track all of this?

So when I first started, when I— so in 2021, sorry, 2023, I was on a mission. I was like, Facebook ads weren't working the way I wanted it to. My email list wasn't growing. So I doubled down on partnerships. So I would reach out again, don't quote me, it's been a couple of years, but say 5 people every single week. We just had a simple spreadsheet that we kept everyone's information in. It was like name of business, How did you outreach? Email 1. Did you do a follow-up? Email 2. What did they say? Cool. And then what did we agree upon? Ang to do this, this person to do this. And then we had a date section. So it's like podcast will be scheduled here, email will go out here. And my team and I just leveraged it. Super simple. It was free. Don't overcomplicate things. People will always try to overcomplicate something because they think that they need to. Don't. Keep shit simple. Simplicity scales. So yeah, so that was our process. Um, and as I said, follow up. So some people would say, yep, let me get back to you, and then I wouldn't hear anything. So I believe that the fortune is in the follow-up. It is on us. People are busy. It doesn't mean they're ignoring you, it doesn't mean they dislike you, it just means they're probably busy. So it's on you to follow up, not just on a partnership but on discovery calls, leads, etc. The fortune is always in the follow-up.

Yeah, amazing. And I guess this all comes back to, do you have a strategy with your offers? Because a lot of people, they might listen to this and just think, oh wow, well, you've got a mailing list, you've got a podcast, you've got a mastermind, you've got events. Like, maybe I need all of these things for this to work. Um, again, if you're coming back to if you were just getting started, what would you focus on offer-wise?

Offer-wise, I mean, it depends on what you're at. For example, in my experience as a business consultant is I found one-on-one to be the easiest way to get clients in. A simple sales page figure out what your one-on-one is going to look like. Is it every week they get access to you, every fortnight they get access to you? And do it for a 3-month duration. Because if you're just starting, you actually might hate one-on-one, like really hate it, or you might actually really love it. But also it reduces barrier to conversion because if it's only a 3-month container, most people will go, oh yeah, that's not too long, it's 12 weeks. If you're like a 6-month one-on-one container or a year one-on-one container, people might go, mm, I don't know about this person. So keep it short, keep it sweet, and test it. Mm-hmm. Once you then have the one-on-one down, in my opinion, and you're gonna start repeating yourself, once you start repeating yourself on a regular basis, that is clues for you to either look at a group program or a mini course, something in another form, and stop exchanging your one-on-one time.

Mm-hmm.

To a one-to-many model.

Okay. Love it. So let's just say we've got someone that's got a one-on-one offering. Mm-hmm. They're looking to do partnerships and collaborations. Mm-hmm. So they might reach out to someone and say like, can you include me in your email that I'm giving all of your subscribers a free discovery call for being a subscriber, for example, something like that.

Yep. So it could be, just know that if that particular partner that you're working with has a pretty big email list, you might be on 100 calls. And can you sustain that, right? However, it's a really great challenge. There was an old mentor of mine and a really great friend of mine over in the UK, Bujra, and she actually challenges people to have 90 conversations in 90 days. And so just one conversation a day. And I really— With prospects? Just conversations is potentially prospects, but just people like within your community. So I work with women in business, service-based or online. So I would want to have one conversation every day. And from that theory, what I came up with is conversations equal connections, which equal conversions. Business is just a numbers game. So the more conversations you have, the more conversions you will have. Take the emotion out of it. So in that instance, maybe you're up for the 90-day challenge if they've got a big email list and see what comes from that, right? If not, you might give two options. Hey, 10 spots available to have a 30-minute strategy discovery call, or download her 65 Ways to Get Lead Gen, do you know what I mean, PDF. Yeah, give people— not everyone will want to hop on a call, they might be really nervous. Give them two ways. Yeah, in my opinion, normally I would say in an email only ever have one micro-commitment, because if you give them too many options, you can actually overwhelm them and they do nothing. But when you're partnering Not everyone will want to listen to the podcast if that's your go-to. Not everyone want a PDF. So I like to offer at least 2 things, not 3, because again, too many. 2 things. Let their audience pick and choose the best route for them. Mm.

Okay. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Because I feel like there's just so much uncertainty with people and women in business especially, and they can take it very personally. Like you were saying, it's like, you know, rejection and everything like that. But I once had a coach and he said to me, Um, well, he said two really good things to me. So one, he just said, like, it was a time where I was like quite heavily pregnant and I was like kind of not— I was a bit stagnant in business. And he was like, how many conversations are you having each week? And I was just like, none. Like, hardly any. And I was like, oh, wake-up call. Like, of course, you know, because it is— it's like conversations equal connections equals conversions. Is that what he's saying? Um, and the other thing he actually said that was really good, I was like, I really want to do more speaking, I want to do more events, and he was just like, build your own stage.

100%. I say that all the time. Stop chasing someone else's stage and build your own. 100%.

Yeah. And you can use that as a, as a metaphor as well. It's like not just about an actual stage, but like build your own opportunity. Stop waiting for someone to invite you to their thing. Yes, you create the thing, you know. So I love that you do that. So I want to bring it to the events that you do, because, um, recently, you know, you posted you did this big event and you made like something like $400K from one event, which is like incredible. Talk us through how that happened.

Yeah, I mean, similar to what you literally just said, I have spoken on hundreds of stages around the world. Um, and it's always an honor to speak on any stage. And I love speaking. In fact, I'm speaking, I'm Europe Car at Europe Car next week to their opening keynote. So I love it, but I was like, ah, I'm still at the hands of someone else's, do you know what I mean? Itinerary, their brief, et cetera. Uh, I show up a little bit different because it's their, their stage, their rules. So I was like, I've created my own podcast. It's been going for almost 8 years. I can create my own stage. So I actually started my first event in Australia 10 years ago. It was a 2-day retreat for women in business on the Gold Coast. There was 40 people there that came. It was absolutely brilliant. Then COVID came, events, as you know, things changed. And then 3 years ago, I started Australia's leading 3-day women in business conference. And I was like, nah, we're bringing it my way. And yeah, it's now our third year in action, and that's pretty much my top of funnel. So I believe if you, a one-day event is very hard to sell from, because they're still quite cold, most of the audience. You've gotta warm them really quickly to get them on the backend. And because my tickets, or my offers are a higher cost point, one day it's very hard to convert. So I normally do 3 to 4 days. There's Method to the Madness, and then off the back, we sell them into my mastermind or to one-on-one.

Wow, that's amazing. And so you would have other speakers come in for the 3 days and things like that?

Yeah, 100%. So some people, some peers of mine will just run their own 3-day event. In my opinion, you can also actually lose people after 3 days of just listening to you the whole time. Yeah, so I prefer to bring in energy, 100%, different energy. People learn differently, they need to see things differently. And my whole thing is, is I actually don't sell from stage. I do the opposite of what everyone's been taught. I just create the experience of a lifetime. And my, in my experience, in my opinion, is if I can create an experience and make people feel safe, belonged, and enough, that they naturally will come back to me. The right people will come to me. So the mastermind is spoken about very little on stage. They'll get a follow-up sequence when it's done. But for there, my main goal is to make people better than when they first found me. Mm-hmm.

I love that. That's, that's one of the things. And so where do most of those sales come from? Just they reach out off the back of those emails?

Yes, off the back of those emails. Yep. So we don't sell at the event. We will say like there is a giveaway that we do where it's like tag us in social media. Every post that you tag us in, you go in to win one of the spots of the mastermind. We have two little banners that go up in our thing and that's all we talk about, the mastermind. And then at the very end, they'll get a 6-email sequence post the event where they can either buy the mastermind right away or book a discovery call. And that's where we— discovery call for either masterminds. Some don't want the mastermind, so they'll turn into one-on-one. And that's what will make the $400K— where we made that $400K was off the back end of that.

Wow, that's very impressive. It's incredible. So you work with, you know, so many women in business. What is the biggest issue and thing that's holding them back?

Listen, I say it depends. It really depends on the individual. Some people will come to me and they, um, are self-sabotaging, which in my opinion is just self-protecting. That's all they're doing is protecting themselves from their little girl wounds that had growing up. Some people, um, just don't know what they don't know. So sometimes they're not even self-sabotaging, they're just like, Ange, like, I'm working with this amazing human at the moment. She came to me— I'll try and de-identify her as much as I can— and I looked at her website at the beginning, I was like, oh, I don't, I don't know if I'm going to be able to help this person. And then she got on the call, um, and she's like, yeah, I make $50K a month. And I was like, what, already? She's like, yeah. But she's like, I'm like, I've just learned shit off of YouTube. She's like, I don't know what I don't know. I don't have a strategy. Um, and we've been I was able to get her to $80K months within 2 months of working with me because now she knows what she didn't know. So she's not even in her way. It wasn't even a mindset thing. So sometimes it's mindset, self-sabotage. Other times they just don't have a strategy. Other times they've just been in it for so long that they can't see the gaps. You identify the gaps and they're sailing. So it's really hard to say there's one thing because there's so many variables that contribute. Sometimes it could be that they're just a new mom and they're really trying to figure out the juggle. Sometimes they've done everything for themselves so long and they're happy to invest and it's not a block, but they don't know anything about team or they bring on team, but they don't know how to lead a team because they've never had to do leading. It's always just been them wearing all the hats. So they hire and they're like, "Ang, but no one's— everyone's leaving me. What am I doing wrong?" And I'm like, "Well, are you meeting with them on a weekly basis? What are your SOPs?" You know? And they're like, "Nothing, nothing, nothing." I said, well, Well, who's leading the ship here? And then obviously those employees or contractors that they're hiring don't feel safe because they're like, "Johnny doesn't know what the hell Johnny's doing. I'm out before this ship sinks." But the ship's not actually sinking. They just don't know how to lead. So sometimes it's leading, sometimes it's mindset, sometimes it's strategy, sometimes it's family, sometimes it's actually health where someone will come to me and they present really, really well and once they allow me into their world I can see that they're not eating properly, they're not sleeping properly, they've started to maybe drink a little bit more than normal. And though that's not my role, I am an ex-mental health and drug alcohol counselor from the past where I used to diagnose people with schizophrenia, bipolar, anxiety, you know, alcohol dependence, et cetera. So I might say, hey, another funnel's not gonna help you because you're not sleeping, you're not eating. So go check with your GP or naturopath and then let's carry on. Other times it's relationships. You know, we were just having lunch, you, me, and Melissa, and one of the things is sometimes, unfortunately, you may be dating or you've married the wrong person. And that's a hard thing to hear, but sometimes your relationship at home can be your biggest asset or your biggest detriment. So I don't have a one-size answer, and that's why I think I'm a little bit different than most coaches. It depends. It really truly depends on the individual.

Yeah, I mean, something that I see a lot, I don't know if you see a lot of this, is also just like almost like fear of success.

100%. Or fear of failure. The opposite too.

Yeah. And especially the way that— that sounds kind of funny, but the way that plays out is that it's like fear of being seen as a scammer or of letting people down. Because like the nature of it is that the more people you work with, the more people that will be disappointed.

100%.

How have you navigated that personally in your journey?

How have I navigated that? I guess one of the things that I go back to is I've always said, even in my first business, failure is not an option. So I guess when things like that come up to me, I'm just kind of like, how can I be responsible for other people's feelings and emotions? And then I go, failure is not an option. So people are going to judge the fuck out of me no matter what I do. It doesn't matter if I'm the kindest, most amazing human. People's upbringing, every person has a different upbringing. So what I've had to learn to just accept is depending on people's upbringing and whatever their subconscious programming is, is going to determine whether or not they're happy with me or not happy with me. Now, if I've done something wrong, I'll freaking own that 100%. But if they're just blame game or I'm the problem or whatever, you've got one finger pointing at me and there's three fingers pointing back at you. So I've had to just get really okay with understanding how humans work and that most of the time it's not a me problem, it's a them problem. And that's not sounding cocky, but it really is. From a human brain perspective. I'll give you an example. There's this beautiful lady that I've been friends with for a very long time. And again, I'll try to de-identify as much as I can. This person had a pretty significant thing happen to the person that they love. And I posted something about my daughter and saying it was the call I dreaded. And this person commented, you don't know what it's like to get those phone calls. Da da da da da. We've had this happen to us. And you need, you know, you're clickbaiting and you're doing all this. And I was like, so my ego, and I was, I was like, I was triggered, but I was like, hold on a minute. That wound that they have is really freshly new. And whenever emotion is high, reason is low. So I was sitting there going, no, this isn't about me. And so I said to this person, thank you so much for bringing this to my attention. This was my experience, but also, you know, my grandmother died on Christmas, 6 months later, my brother died on Mother's Day. And 6 months after that, a good father figure died on New Year's Day. So it's like, I have had those phone calls. I do know what it's like. I wasn't doing this as clickbait. And she said, "Well, you could have worded it this way." And it's like, I could have, but the next person would have taken it the other way. Like, I can't— I'm never gonna win. Once you start getting big, the reality of it is, is you're never gonna make everyone happy. And you've gotta be okay with just being who you are. The haters are gonna be there. And again, I said it earlier, Kady, it's a numbers game. Yeah. 100 people follow you, it's minimum that fear of success or fear of comments or whatever. 1,000 people know you, more people are likely not gonna agree with you. Now you've got 10,000 followers, it's just a numbers game. You gotta grow a backbone and be okay that a lot of times they're just having a bad day or they're programming, they haven't worked on their healing yet.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Another big fear I see is like fear of rejection. So it's almost like, say someone wants to launch something or whatever they like, don't want— they're anticipating rejection before it happens and that stops them from even launching or for going all in, or they'll start launching it and then like they're not getting a good result and then like retreat.

Yes.

And have a lot of shame around, oh my God, people can now see publicly that I'm failing, even though realistically most people aren't paying as much attention. You know, have you had to navigate that or see some of your clients navigate that? And if so, what has helped you or them get through that?

Yeah, I mean, the one thing that comes to example is I remember I had, uh, stunted a growth at about $70K months, and I was like, what is it? Like, I'm doing all the things, the strategy's there, my mindset's sort of solid, whatever. And I've done talk therapy before, talk therapy before. It works for some people and some diagnoses and/or disorders 100%. Um, I've done some NLP, I've done some sound healing. Like, I was like, what is it? So I started doing hypnotherapy And my goodness, it was the best thing. So I went into this hypnotherapy session. They count you down. It's all on WhatsApp at my home. You don't have to go anywhere. She said, what's in front of you? And in front of me was this brick wall. And she said, what— is there any words on the bricks? And I said, actually, receiving was one. She said, oh, that's a clue. You might have trouble receiving more money. And then there was another word I can never remember. And then out of nowhere, it was like this cartoon character her speech bubbles just start going everywhere. And it was like, lonely, lonely, lonely. And she said, that's why you're stuck at 70K months. And I remember I just started sobbing. And she was like, what does loneliness mean for you? And the thing that I associated with is that my mom was a nurse practitioner. Next thing she could be was a doctor in America. Um, she had everything going for her. She then had back surgery, got addicted to opiates, filed bankruptcy once, filed bankruptcy twice. And the last time I seen her was in her home with all the blinds She was just smoking a cigarette, staring into space. So my subconscious brain was going— it wasn't telling me consciously and the words weren't coming out, but my body was going, it's not safe for you to make more than $70K a month because if you do, you're going to end up like a lonely woman, just like your mom. And once that happened, I was like, okay, now, like, where I— once I knew and had a name as to why that block was, I was ready to rock and roll, $80K, $90K, $100K, so on, right? So to me, hypnotherapy is the best because it just drops you into a state where you tap into the unconscious, subconscious mind, and you're able to really understand why you're self-sabotaging. So that was why I was self-sabotaging. I didn't want to be lonely like my mom.

Wow, it's so powerful to like understand the deeper things behind it because so often it isn't strategy, you know.

100%.

It's like all the other things— and yeah, it's so interesting. Even my own journey, like, I feel like, you know, before kids, I was always like riding the momentum and I felt like I could do anything. And then I had kids and I moved and like things slowed down and life got like— was very different. And then because I wasn't like winning and succeeding the way I usually was, that became like my new reality. Yes. And then even now, I feel to some extent, even though I am like— I'm building the studios, I'm doing all these different things, I still feel like, you know, it's like I've got more evidence now in the last 2 years that like I can't do what I used to because my life is different than I can. And like, that's totally actually, I feel like, limited my growth. And all of that is like a mindset thing. I'm still working through that, but it's like, that's not a strategy thing. It's like, it's the deeper things. And there are the things that—

Well, that is the strategy though. So that's where I get— do you know what I mean? When I hear like in the online space, people just relate strategy to the next funnel, the next team, the next system. But I'm like, the mindset is the strategy. It is actually a strategy. But most, in my opinion, business coaches and consultants aren't aware of that strategy. They're just focusing on one. And it's really messing a lot of people up because they go, but I am doing the funnel, I am doing the Facebook ads, I am doing all this. Then their nervous system starts to get all screwed up. Then they're not sleeping, then they're not eating, then they're drinking more. And I'm just like, oh my gosh. And it's like, well, no, There's something that normally happens in childhood, 9 times out of 10 in my experience. Yeah. And you develop it typically between the ages of 0 and 7 when the brain, brain is still forming. More often you start to acknowledge it once around 3, 3 and a half when your language starts to becoming more and more apparent as a kid, as a child. Um, but that is the strategy and that's where I feel like coaches who don't understand the mindset component of it are actually messing people up and hurting people. Than helping people.

Yeah, because it all comes back to that. Like, it all comes back. And like any of the women that I work with, it's a 99.9—

100%.

It's the mindset stuff. And a lot of it is that thing with after kids, like that drop in confidence, you know, and not having all the, like, external success things anymore. And then you start to lose that self-belief a little bit. And I mean, personally, I think manifestation is so important, or like visualization, and just like the self-belief of seeing yourself doing things. Or like, say someone's like, okay, we're going to do that. Does your mind jump to, that's never going to work, or does it jump to, yeah, let's fucking do it, you know? And like, I think that's so important to train your mind to be. Even though your existing circumstances might not reflect it yet, you're still believing and you're moving forward anyway. Where do you— where do you— because you're obviously very into the neuroscience of things, like you've done like social work, you've done counseling, like all these things. Do you have any spiritual— like, do you have a kind of a spirituality practice? Like, do you believe in manifestation? Where do you sit on that, like, woo-woo spectrum?

Yeah, listen, you know, funny enough, 10 years ago I was at a conference and they started talking about the golden light in your womb, and I was like, what the fuck is going on, right? Um, and then I was at another conference in the Philippines with Chris Ducker for a mastermind in 2006, I think it was, and I remember a lady started pulling like oracle cards. And I was like, what is going on? However, both those two incidences I'm always very grateful for because it was actually those conversations that have led me to where I am today. So if you met me on the street, you'd think that I was— I'm very masculine energy. I'm very much just about strategy. But when you're in my world, you will know that I am also a certified energy clearer. So I work with 14 different energy codes to help people clear different energy blocks. I also am a sound healer, so I'll use sound healing. I will be using oracle cards. We run silent retreats, so I'm very much on the woo. Manifesting, I think, is very helpful. Yes, I think affirmations can be very helpful. Yes, only if you're doing the subconscious work, because if your subconscious brain is still wired from how it's always been and you're still sitting in like the 1.0 version of yourself, adding affirmations or manifestations on top of that, it's not going to do anything. And then you're going to go, well, why isn't— I'm doing this technique too and it's not working. So my thing is, is always get to the root of whatever is happening and then layer on the manifestation. Yeah. Um, but I also, like, for me, I practice daily gratitude every single day. I might not journal every day, I might not drink a green smoothie every day, or any day really, um, but I will every night before I go to bed. My necklace is normally on. I'll grab the moldavite, I'll hang on to it, and I'll just say, what am I grateful for today? Because Because when you rewire your brain at night, if you go to sleep at night and all you're thinking about is, "Fuck, I'm a failure. I didn't get this done. I didn't get this done. I got to get this done for the kids," you are rewiring the pathways. And that's most important and it's at its peak when you're going to sleep. That's what you know. And then you wake up the next thing and it's the first thing you think about. So the last thing I think about is what am I grateful for for the day? I'm grateful for our chat today. I'm grateful for lunch with you and Melissa. I'm grateful for the sunshine. And it might seem so mundane, but if you look at the research research, people that have gratitude in their world make better decisions. They're quicker, they're kinder, and from an energetic perspective, the right people start to show up and the right opportunity. So for me, daily gratitude is a non-negotiable for me.

Yeah, I love that so much. And I love what you said earlier about like not forcing it too, like you have to just kind of follow the signs but not like try and force things as well. I've really found that like as I've gotten more on this spirituality kind path, that like forcing energy just never actually works. No, like, I, I'm definitely big on getting shit done, but there is a line, you know, I think, between 100%.

So for example, you and I have been planning this podcast for months now, I think maybe January, and I was like, it never felt forced though. Like, it never— it wasn't working out, you could say. We're now going into, what are we, May? So 5 months later. But I was like, I knew, I was like, trust the process. We're all right on time. When this podcast happens, it will happen. But if we would have tried to force it, you and I probably would have been energetically cranky with each other. Something would have been off. We may not have had lunch. Like, the list goes on. So I'm always like, people who try and force things to happen and they're like, why isn't it happening? To me, those are just clues. You call it energy, you call it spiritual, you call it universe, you call it God, whatever you want to call. Those are clues to say this isn't working. Yeah. Don't ever force anything. Same thing with any— at the end of every discovery call with a client, I will say, I know I've got the strategy for you and I know I can show up to our calls because if I'm going to put you into my calendar, I need to be excited and energetically aligned to see that in my calendar and go, I can do this. If I couldn't, I wouldn't welcome them into my world. And so I say to them, I don't want you to make a decision right now, but go home and I need you to make a decision knowing, can she do the strategy, the logic side, but can— does it also feel good? Because if you're not in alignment alignment with your strategy, with your partner, with your health, whatever, everything else falls behind. And that's where don't force shit to happen.

100%. And actually, it was actually funny, even today at lunch with you, this is a good example of that because I had met— we bumped into Taki Moore when we were at lunch, and I had met him maybe 2 months ago. He does this coaches walk sometimes in Noosa. Yeah. And so there was like probably like 20 people on the walk, you know. So I chatted to him a little bit, but I just, I never want to be one of those people that's like just trying, like he's obviously the one organizing the walk and everyone wants to chat. I don't wanna be like pestering or like—

Totally.

Do you know what I mean? I'm not one of those people. And so anyway, that was fine. I was like, there's gonna be more walks 'cause I'd love to meet him 'cause I love him, I'm a big fan of his work and stuff. But I was like, there'll be more walks, it's all good. So chatted a little bit, but that was it. Then I went to go to another walk like a couple of weeks later, no one else there, it wasn't on. Again, another 2 or 3 weeks later, went on another walk because I thought they were weekly walks. No one there. And then I started thinking, shit, I should have just talked to him on the day. And then I was like, that was silly. And then today we were at lunch. Who walks in? Taki. Well, like, we were there with you and Melissa. Like, so got chatting to him, just the 3 of us, and like had a good convo.

And it just naturally happened.

And naturally happened. And because Melissa knows him, it was like more of a warm introduction. We got chatting. So it's just a good example of, like, you know, like, even just— I mean, I think that applies to all situations. But, like, people can feel that energy as well of that, like, desperation of, like, trying to push and force. Like, really trusting that, like— I'm not saying— see, there's a fine line too. It doesn't mean don't put yourself out there. I think put yourself out there and be in the room and be, you know, around people and energy to build opportunities. But at the same time, trust it's going to happen.

Mm-hmm. And I think that, like, to, like— You'll know. Your body doesn't lie. So it's like, if you're forcing yourself to get in the car— like, I would not want to do the morning walks because I would rather gouge my eyes out at 6 in the morning or 7 in the morning.

Yeah.

So I know if I got in that car, my energy's already off going, I have to do this. If you start saying I have to do anything, yeah, that's a sign right there. Check yourself. Versus I get to choose totally to come to Noosa today and have lunch with you guys. It feels so much better. It does. It's not course, if you're having to do anything, you're not in alignment and you're forcing it. So just really watch the language that you're using with yourself, because have to, choose to, very different.

Even yesterday I was like, oh my God, I have such a full day tomorrow. I was just mentally preparing for the day, and then I was like, wait, like, I, I'm— I had a surf lesson at 6 AM. Yeah, I took my daughter to like a playgroup, had lunch with you guys, did a podcast. Like, it's been full. There's been— I had a warehouse meeting in the middle of all that. It's been a full day, but like, how— all fun stuff.

Like, how—

I was like, wait, why am I even— not that I was stressing about it, but I was like, how lucky am I to have so many exciting things in my day, you know?

And it reminds— you just reminded me of something. Um, there was an, uh, article I was reading, like a video one time, and this man had a very unfortunate situation where his 5-year-old daughter had been killed, um, in a school shooting in the US.

Oh my goodness.

And the reporter was saying something like, "So how do you get up every single day?" And he was like, "You can still be sad, but you can still choose happiness." And that's always stuck with me, 'cause like I said, my gram died on Christmas, my brother on Mother's Day, a father-type figure on New Year's Day. And people are always like, "But you've still always remained happy, why?" And I've always gone down to, I get to choose, it's okay to still be happy. I can still be sad, but you don't have to choose sadness all the time. And I have a saying that I say in a couple of keynotes, is, "Whatever you're not changing, you're choosing. Choose wisely." Your life and the trajectory that it's on is your choice. If you don't like it, I don't know about you, but I don't hang out with people that bitch about their life anymore. It's just not worth my— it's like, "But you chose this." And it's the same thing when I asked my ex-husband for a divorce. Like, I wasn't happy with— he never hurt me, he never beat me, he never— any of that. But I was just— we were no longer on the same frequency. I was like, "I can either choose to stay in this," and choose to be miserable, or I choose to get off, off this, you know what I mean, frequency and into something else. But like, no one's knocking at your door to come and save you. Yeah. So again, whether or not it's your day, whether or not it's just a perspective on how you look, you're choosing your life.

100%. And we need to be more ruthless with that as well. 100% people pleasing. And I am like, I put myself in that category back in the day. Like, I've had to really work on that over the years. But even recently, I was hanging out with some mom friends because my daughter was at a friend's birthday after school or after playgroup. And I was just like, how are you, to one of the other moms. She's like, oh, surviving. And she's like, 2 kids, haven't won the lotto yet. And it's just like, I can't listen to that. I get it's hard, and I understand that. But it's like everyone there in the whole group had 2 kids. You know what I mean? It's just like we all have the same. It's— I just like— like, and again, it's like you're choosing how to look at it. Like, some people would kill to have 2 kids, etc. And it's not to say that it's like toxic positivity, because I think that's also like— you don't want to do that. Of course, if you're having a hard day, you can have a hard day, but like, choose how you're looking at your life, you know what I mean? It's just like, yeah, I just find it hard to be around really kind of negative energy and speech, and I've become so much more ruthless this in like, I'm not going to be around that. And before I would have been like, oh, that's really mean, like I'm like, who am I to judge? But it's like, no, I'm not actually judging her, I'm just choosing where my energy goes.

100%. It's— and especially when you are juggling different businesses and your own health and kids or whatever, energy is everything. Yeah, it can make or break you on your trajectory. And to me is like, you really— that saying, like the 5 people you hang out with, it is. I'm very mindful of who I hang out with when I go— like, my daughter plays elite basketball. I'm very mindful at even who do I sit with on the bench, because some parents are going to be really lift me up, and other parents, I'm just going to listen to them moan because that's all they do. I choose where I sit with them now, right? Doesn't mean I'm a bad person. Yeah, but you go back to people pleasing. One of the things that I love is that the more you people please, the less revenue you make. Choose wisely. And people, whenever they said— whenever I said that, they're like, oh my goodness, you're right. I'm people pleasing about taking a call at 10 o'clock at night. I'm people pleasing about changing my pricing. And every time you break a boundary, you like yourself a little bit less. The person you're breaking it for is fine because they're getting their way. You, on the other hand, you still have to look yourself in the mirror. So again, people pleasing and your boundaries, be very mindful of that because, yeah, it's— life's too— yeah, time's the only thing we can't get back.

100%. And that's why I love what you're doing now, pivoting more into this like Healing Center of Australia. So tell us a little bit more about that. So how did that happen? How did that come about?

Yeah, I think, uh, well, I don't think I know. I was in a mastermind in Napa Valley a couple years ago, and my mentor at the time just said, if you were given a million dollars that couldn't be used to like gamble, uh, crypto investment, and you had to start a new business, what would you do? And I believe there's a lot of, um, unhealed people in the world. So, and my partner and I who started the Healing Center of Australia, we believe heal people, heal people, hurt people, hurt people. But people just don't have the tools or understanding about how they can heal. And healing, it's a pretty big word at the moment, it's a buzzword, but it can look very different for different people. It could be simply meditating, that could be what your journey looks like. It could be gratitude, right? It could be journaling, it could be a silent retreat. My whole aim is to be able to give people day-to-day resources that they can access and make their lives a little bit better. You're never going to be fully healed because different We're always gonna have death, we're always gonna have bad things happen to us, so our journey of healing will always continue to evolve over time. But most people don't even know about their subconscious programming. They don't even know the benefits of gratitude. So my job is to work with individuals, schools, and corporates in order to be able to give them the tools, resources, and they need to start helping their leaders, loved ones, etc., to understand subconscious programming and start to rewire that little bit by little bit. And yeah, have more healed people in the world.

So exciting. So I am doing the 3-night, uh, silent retreat. You are, and I'm very excited. So tell me what I'm in for.

Oh, what are you in for? To me, the silent retreat is the best thing anyone— if I think about any of my retreats that I run, the silent retreat by far is the best because it gives you an opportunity to be nurtured. And what I mean by that is you get to nurture your brain, you get to nurture your heart, you need to get to nurture your soul. You have a chef that's available for you that will cook all your food. And it just takes the day-to-day decisions of everything that we have to do, regardless if you're a mom or not, off your plate. But what that does though is, is there's no talking, there's no phones, there's no painting, there's nothing, there's no reading. There is journaling because we believe things will come up for the individual and you need an outlet. But besides that, when you have no distractions in your life, you can no longer keep running from the things that you have suppressed in your body, in your mind, in your soul. So those 4 days allow you the opportunity to still be taken care of, but allow you to heal in a way that will work for you. And we do that— there's still daily yoga to help with your body and movement, which is still all silent. We will do sound healing, which is still all silent, and allow sound and vibration to come into your body to the parts that need it. There will be cold plunges and steam rooms to again help nurture your body. The great food will be in nature. These are all the things that I believe is the medicine that is necessary to help avoid and prevent disease, but also to heal people in a way that works for them. And it's just a beautiful experience. Day 1, everyone's kind of looking at each other going, "Who's gonna crack?" And then you kind of go day 2 and people are like finding their rhythm. By day 3, people are almost like zombie-like. They come in They sit with their food, they get up and go. They're really in their own trance, which is a beautiful thing to see. Then we do a fire ceremony that night. And then on day 4, we do one more session that's in silence. And then Grant and I will slowly bring you out of silence. We'll ask you to choose the first word that will come out of your mouth after 4 days and what that looks like. And that's a pretty powerful thing to go, "Shit, what's that word that I want to ground into me after this?" Um, but there's not normally, I would say, a dry eye in the house come that day. Um, and people still— we get messages all the time going, you don't need a silent retreat every year, but once you do one, you will naturally— like, I crave silence, uh, because I know silence will help me get me to my next level. But we're just— yeah, so you're in for a treat.

So on that last day after the word, do people then talk about their experience? Yeah, yeah.

So we want to make sure that everyone has an opportunity to be to share what came up for them, what was good, what was tricky, what was hard. And then their future self. So what does this look like for your future? How can you start to not— how can you start to recognize that you might be suppressing things versus speaking to your partner about something, or asking for that raise at your work, or Christmas dinner, people pleasing because mom wants it at her house and you're like, "No, I want it at my house." Those are the things that we'll talk about, how do you avoid this this from the future. And then how do you go back into society and start to reduce technology and things like that? Because in my opinion, technology is killing people. And there's actually a study I read recently that they said by 2030, the number one cause of death will not be heart, cancer, etc. It will be loneliness. And they directly link that to data, phones, TVs, and disconnectedness from overall society.

Yeah, that's crazy.

So yeah, so yeah, you're in for a good 4 days, my friend.

Yeah, I'm very excited. Have you, you've done it yourself as a participant?

Yes.

What have been some of the breakthroughs you've had?

I remember for me, one was around, not funny, but funny, as an ex-therapist, I'm very good at watching people. And I remember saying to myself, I wonder who's gonna cry first, right? And I'm just like watching people. Oh, I was the person crying first. I was like, I remember. Oh, that was me. And so I remember it was breakfast and everyone was coming around the breakfast table. And there was this beautiful man, he would have been like 70, early 70s, late 70s, just this beautiful soul. And he was just like, there was just like this slowness about him, but like, you wanted to be like this man, right? But he also reminded me of my dad. And the next thing you know, like, I'm sobbing about that. And then 2 hours later, I'm like, I'm having another sobbing attack about my mom and some of the fucked Fucked up shit she did. So, like, it just gives you— and I know the word, it gives you space, but it truly gives you space to look at things differently. I remember I went to the bamboo forest at this particular space, and I just watched the raindrops for, like, 2 hours. My partner, Grant, watched a bumblebee for, like, 3 hours. Like, you just see things differently. You hear things differently. And even food tastes different. Because, again, there's no distractions. There's no to-do list. You just get to be. So when you have that experience to see what you're missing on a daily basis, it cannot not change you.

I love that. Well, I'll put the link to that in my show notes so everyone can check it out, but it sounds incredible. I'm so excited.

You know, I'm excited too.

Hopefully I won't crack.

When will Kady crack?

And she'll be just watching me the whole time. And now I'll know that you're watching me. Like, shit, what are the giveaway signs?

You know, I remember a client, she came once and she was like, damn it, Angela, you did it again. She's like, I was like, no way, I'm just sitting in silence, la di da. So the next thing I know, she's like, I'm like, oh my God. She's like, yeah, but it's just like, again, there, it's a safe space, so you can just let all that bent up energy that your body's been storing— again, your body remembers— just to like cleanse it, let it out, and you feel so much better.

Yeah, that's awesome. Well, I have absolutely loved talking to you today. I feel like I could talk to you for like 3 more hours, but I've got 3 questions to wrap up. So first is, for anyone listening, what can they do to connect more with their purpose?

Connect more with your purpose?

Silence.

Mhm. Put the phone down, go out to nature. Again, it doesn't cost you anything. Silence. Yeah, your body— you already know what you need to do, but you're not listening to it. So when you connect with silence, naturally everything is right in front of you.

Yeah, love that. What can people do to connect more to their mental health, or just support their mental health better? Sleep.

Really check your sleep. Sleep is, is everything. If you're not getting sleep, you typically don't eat well, you make bad decisions, it impacts your relationships, then you feel bad, then you go into a cycle of procrastination or guilt or shame. Sleep. Make sure you're getting sleep. And I know it's— everyone talks about it, but no one cares, and they're on their phone till midnight. Sleep.

Yeah. And what can people do to, get there, get more visible, get more visibility?

Again, I say it depends. Choose a platform and an outlet that is in alignment for you. So maybe start the podcast, start the YouTube channel, start the Pinterest, uh, start your live event, but choose one thing and do it well. You're going to get bored and you're going to want to quit even when you're seeing results. That's self-sabotage. Do one thing, do it well, and then layer on the next. Don't try to do everything at once. So I started with, um, podcasting I'm still podcasting at almost 8 years later on. I then layered on, um, Instagram this last year. I've just layered on short-form content where I just recorded 30 videos, um, a couple weeks ago. I did another 30 before that. Like, don't— you can't do everything at once, but do something that you know you're going to be consistent with. You're going to get bored. Do not throw the towel in and do another shiny object, and then just keep layering. So yeah, but I don't— I can't say which one to do because it depends on the person, but choose one thing. Yeah, do it well, understand it, and just blow the socks off.

Yeah, yeah, love that. Well, thank you so much. How can people connect with you?

Yeah, I mean, it just depends on how you choose to connect, but you can head to angelahenderson.com.au or thehealingcenterofaustralia.com.au, or I am on Instagram and my handle over there is Angela Henderson Consulting.

Amazing. Thank you, Ang.

Gosh, thank you.