Why Everything You're Forcing Is Failing with Jordan Candlish

What's up, my friend? Welcome back to the podcast. Really looking forward to sharing today's episode with you. Today I sat down with my friend Katie. We met at a retreat in LA and we really just vibed and we connected. She's an amazing female woman's business coach and she's a mother. She lives in Noosa in Queensland. And while I was out in Queensland, we got to hang out and spend some more time together and dive deep into some of the topics we've been pondering recently, like relationships, how a man should be showing up in a relationship, what it means to scale a business while having a family, some of the challenges and opportunities that have come up from that. It's a wide-ranging conversation, but something that I know you're gonna get a lot of value from. Katie's amazing. Make sure to watch to the very end because we start, I answer some hard-hitting questions that she throws at me that I wasn't too sure how to navigate, but curious to get your feedback and opinion on some of the things that were shared. All right guys, enjoy the podcast. Subscribe if you haven't already and enjoy the episode. It is scary to like wanna step into being seen. And unless you don't have that intrinsic motivating force to be like, I'm gonna confront all of these fears.

Yeah.

It doesn't matter like what program you're in or who's coaching you. It's like they can only give you the guardrails. Give you some help.

Yeah, exactly.

You have to do it yourself, you know?

100%. And I think the more spiritual I've become, and last year was like a really big spiritual year for me, it's like, I don't have your answers. You know what I mean? Like I can guide you, I can tell you what I've done, I can tell you what's working. I can, like, we can create a community and like, give you all the tools, but like it has to come from inside of you as well. Like I don't know what your purpose is. You know what I mean?

I think that that is a huge emphasis on that. The fact that no one has your fucking answers. I think it's normal for everyone at the start of their journey is to go through a period where you're investing in coaches or courses or things and you're looking out there for the answers. And I did this for a long time where I worked with so many different coaches and asking them for what strategy do you think I should do? Or like, oh, that business model works for you. Maybe I should try that. Or other coaches are doing this. And I just tried all these different things and I was like, none of this is really me until probably, I don't know, recently in the last 12 months, I've really gone, you know what? I am the strategy. Like I have the strategy, my strategy is in the category of one. There was no other strategy that will work aside from the one that I decide will work. And it's inside of me already. No one else can give it to me. So I think if there's a level of self-ownership and self-responsibility as a business owner that you get to at a certain phase where you realize, No one has the answer for you. It's not out there. You can get inspiration from other strategies, but it's like, how do you wanna live your life? How do you wanna create the business around that life that aligns? And the more I'm like leaning into that, the more it feels more secure for me as I show up like each day to be like, cool, this is my strategy. I know other people are doing their thing, but I don't need to go, oh, maybe I should do it like that as well. 'Cause like that would come up for comparison in business comes up so much.

So much. But like I had to learn all that the hard way, like multiple times. Do you know what I mean? Where I did outsource my power and I did try and just be like, "You tell me your strategy," or sign up for these things to be like, "This person has all the answers," or whatever. And it wasn't until I got my face plonked in the mud and then someone trampled on it a few times. That's how it felt. And I'm just like, "Ah." Someone yesterday— I'm doing this kind of spiritual course and we were talking about what's the opposite of flow. And one of the guys was like, "It's like when you're swimming upstream and you're still going backwards." And sometimes I feel like that's, that's how I felt when I'm trying to like force things and force myself into a certain box that I think is the right way of doing something because this person has done it and gotten results and da da da. And it's like my logical brain is like, can wrap my head around it and find like, find certainty in this like logical mathematical thing. Because I'm like, this person is a great— like they're doing it in their business, they've got all these results, I'm going to do it and 1 1 2, you know, I'm going to have the same outcome. But then Obviously it hasn't been for me for whatever reason. And even though I've done and I've applied myself and did all those things, and it's like, at least I think I'm a pretty smart person, I'm pretty motivated, I can do things, and it still has just not worked for whatever reason. And I think for me personally, that's been part of my journey where I've had to do all the things that seem certain and have myself fall flat on my face doing those things. To like then realize like there's a different way.

Yeah. And like you're saying, if you don't keep coming back to yourself and asking like, okay, who do I wanna be? Like, what's the kind of, what's the way of being that's gonna unlock this next level for me? Not this next strategy or something that I'm doing. It's like, who do I wanna be in terms of how I show up? And you're coming back to that place, but I feel like if you don't come back to that place, what eventually happens is, I see a lot of coaches and business owners do this. They become like a sellout. You're like, you're doing this thing just to make money. You're following this path because it's making you money. And like, that's the next big strategy, or you're running this campaign because it's like, it's working. But deep down, you're, you're a phony underneath the surface because you're not happy, you're not free, you're not connected, you don't really care about people.

Yeah.

And you can smell that a mile away in certain people.

I think you can.

And I think that's what we're really waking up to now is I wanna be around someone who's like fucking loving their life and they're living, operating in business complete alignment and they found their own strategy that's regardless of how other people are doing it. So what do you think is the way for you or how have you came back to yourself? I know we were just speaking about it offline, but like, what does that look like for you specifically? And maybe there's a piece of advice for like the version of you 3 years ago who was—

Yeah, well, I have like a lot of empathy for that version too. And also for anyone that is going through that, I don't think there's, sometimes doing it from a malintent. They think they're doing what they need to be done. You hear all this stuff online, like, if you want to be an entrepreneur, you need to fucking eat cement for breakfast and do 500 push-ups before every sales call. So people are like, yeah, I'm going to do what it takes. I'm going to do whatever it takes. And yes, there's an element to that that is needed, of course. But I think there's just so much information out there that's like that that people get caught up in that, and they think that that's what they need to do. They're not like trying obviously to be a phony or anything like that, but they, they've just completely lost touch with themselves, or they just never felt that connection to themselves in the first place. Like, I know it took me a while to develop that like spiritual side. Like, I've come from a very logistical, logical background in a lot of ways. And, uh, and then there's a lot of fear as well. Like, I think a lot of it stems back to safety, cuz you know, you, you're like, I need to make money, like I need to, you know, do all these things, I need to 'achieve all these things to be loved,' and whatever else that is underlying. And then that's where it kind of comes from. So I do have a lot of empathy for people that are in that situation, and for myself that was in that situation, because sometimes it's like you need to have those dark nights of the soul to come out the other side and to actually get the insights and all that. And I'm still on that journey in a way. I'm not by any means at my final destination of where I want to be at all, but I'm starting to appreciate a lot more the journey and starting to try to love my challenges. So even if I am in a really shitty situation at the moment, try to love that because, oh, how much gold am I going to get from this? And how much better of a person am I going to be on the other side of this challenge? And just really trying to live day to day and be in the moment and actually not be so attached to like always being in the future and like only when I've achieved XYZ, I'm gonna be able to be happy then. It's like, can I love myself and love even my challenges and as I'm going through them?

Yeah, that's what makes you more valuable as a coach and a leader, right? Like not, you're gonna have challenges, you're gonna have things that don't go your way, but it's like still honoring like during that time, this is where I'm anchoring deeper into who I am. These challenges are the best thing that could have happened to me 'cause now I'm getting more in contact with my truth. With why I've been put here. And then what I realized on the other side of it, when I'm in it, I'm allowing myself to be in it instead of like trying to cope and avoid it by working more, doing all the other things that I used to do, which is like hustle harder or make more content, whatever it is, just like allow myself to be in it. When I come out the other side of it, I've got this like new sense of wisdom or confidence in how I'm showing up because I'm not pretending like I have all the answers. I'm not pretending that I've got my shit figured out. So then when I get on a call with a client or I'm coaching another man, I can just show up for him way more confidently because I've just gone through what he's in.

Yeah.

And I just came out the other side of it and I can say what he needs to hear in that moment.

Yeah.

And I just believe as coaches, like I feel sometimes the most valuable thing as a coach is say what needs to be said, like be bold or tell your client something or say something to your client that no one else is telling them. That's a little bit scary at times —to call someone forward or call them out, especially for men. Like when you're coaching men, they need that sometimes. They need an energetic slap. Sometimes they need a physical slap. And I got some friends that actually do that, which is awesome, brave, courageous. But the only way you can be that as a coach is when you've made peace with all of your darkness and fear and you're internally so solid. That way you can get out of your own way and be there as a guide and as a space holder for another client and give them that.

And you don't need anything from them. You're not like, oh, I better not say it because I want them to continue next month. Month. That's it. Like, you have to be so sure in yourself that— and so trusting that you are complete with or without this person, with or without anything. And I think a lot of it comes back to that self-trust and that just innate trust that, like, you are whole and complete, like, no matter what happens. And for me, sometimes that can be tangible things too, though. Like, you know, for example, if it is a financial thing, like, can you cut all of your expenses? Can you take a part-time job or do whatever it is that gives you that feeling of safety to then be able to not be so reliant on external things that you can give yourself the space to like do what you want to do and also not to feel like you have to do things. Like, I think that's actually really helpful as well.

Yeah, yeah. I made some big mistakes early on because I was trying to start my business out of a place of survival. I was like 24, 25 thinking that I could start this coaching business full-time, and I quit on— I quit my job. I was in Canada. I was like all in on like getting this business going. I remember the anxiety that I was confronting with every single day because I've got this rent to pay. I'm not making any money right now. And it was just, I couldn't create. I couldn't show up in this creative place because there was so much fear that I was carrying until it got to the point one day where I like, I swallowed my pride. I was like, you know what? I need to get a job right now. I need to like cover the baseline. And I remember looking at different jobs in Toronto. It was like the middle of winter, pouring snow outside. And I found this like flyering job where I was a brand ambassador for this meal delivery company. And one of the jobs was to go to Union Station, which is like the busiest train station in Toronto, middle of winter. And just hand out flyers. I remember being out there like -20, handing these flyers out. But I remember the feeling of relief because I knew I was getting paid money to pay for my rent. And I remember this like feeling of like, hey, this is a stepping stone in this journey right now. And if I'm gonna do this fucking flying job, I'm gonna be the best damn flyer there was. And just like treating it as like this game of like handing out all these flyers and coming home and being like, okay, cool. There's my baseline covered. I've got my rent taken care of. Now let me go back to my business. And it just gave like a completely different springboard to operate from. When I just owned the fact that, okay, so operating from survival is, is not it.

Exactly, you know, exactly. And sometimes you need to be humbled like that.

Yeah, it was one of the most humbling times of my life because I quit my accounting job to go start my online business and it wasn't happening. So I was like, fuck, I need to—

sometimes, sometimes you start business with all this like ego as well, and it's like the universe is just like, let's take you down a little notch or two. 1000%.

Yeah, it's necessary. I need it. And funny, funny thing about that was While I was doing that, I had also applied to work at this meditation studio that was this brand new space in Toronto that I was waiting to hear back from. It was a private equity company that owned it. And I was waiting to hear back from one of the investors to find out if I got this job. While I was flyering one day in the station, he walked past me and saw me doing the flyering. And that's one of the reasons why he hired me for that role because he respected my hustle. He was like, "Fuck yeah, he's out there handing out flyers. This is the guy we wanna work with us." That's amazing. And that job completely changed the trajectory of my life. Like the people that I met, the opportunities During that time. Yeah, so it's just like, whatever you got to do to get back to baseline where your nervous system can relax and unwind to be in the frequency of possibility again, because when there's incoherence or static in the signal, it's blocking the thing, you know? It's gotta be in coherence, whatever's required for that.

Yeah, you have to be in a place of like wholeness. And I've just even come through that just recently, even like when I was trying to kind of reinvent what I'm doing now. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna do it over Christmas. And I was like, I'm gonna give, like I'd already kind of taken December off. I hadn't been selling anything. So then I was like, I'm gonna, I really think about this over Christmas. I love, like, lots of space and time. And then I got really sick for like 2 weeks, and I felt like shit. And then, like, you know, my kids have been super needy, and they've been a bit sick as well. And then we've had, like, lots of people staying with us and stuff. And so I just felt like totally— like, it was like almost like maybe a spiritual lesson where it was like, can you just trust and wait until you're creating from a place of wholeness and not just, like, create because I said I was going to do it at Christmas and because I don't know what I'm doing next and I need a plan and everything like that? And So that actually felt like every day was like a challenge for me because I was just like, it was so uncomfortable to not know what I'm doing next and to not have inspiration coming through. But I just, I knew I'm not, like I still brainstormed and everything, but I was like, I'm not committing to anything. And it's only like today that I've kind of, yesterday and today that I've kind of established what it is that I'm doing because I was feeling a lot better and energized. And I did some visioning. I did a visioning session with my coach, really dreaming about like, what do I want? Like what is like 3.0 over in 3 years' time. What's Katie doing in 3 years' time? And like starting there. And then I also did a feedback form with all my existing clients. I could also see what they need and things like that. And just so much clarity came through. And then this morning I just signed my first person up for this new, uh, mastermind. But it was just like so easy, like zero— I didn't have a strategy, I didn't even have a payment form, nothing. I was just like, hey, send me your credit card details. Like she didn't even see what it was, I just told her like just so easy. And I feel like that's, that's how easy it can be, you know, if it's just coming from a place of like you're genuinely providing a lot of value and you're doing something that you really are passionate about too. Because there's no one strategy, there's a zillion strategies. Like you choose, you decide. Yeah, yeah, that's right.

And I, I feel like clients are paying for the strength of your conviction. Yeah. And, and I've realized that recently is like the speed that I'm creating the reality that I, that I want is coming from the strength of my conviction, meaning like how certain I am that this is going to happen. Yeah. Because I decided, like, I decided this is gonna happen. Nothing will stop me. Yeah. Everything that comes into my past will be exactly what I need to get me one step closer to that. So it breaks any of the resistance to like, oh fuck, I'm a little bit sick right now. Beautiful, just what I needed. Perfect. Let me love this and embrace this. Conviction in every step of the way, not just when things are going good, but when things are also going bad. Like, fucking all in. This is— I love when, when things go wrong. Yeah. Because now I get to practice stepping into the person of me who embodies the certainty that things always work out. Yeah. So then when you're in that identity or self-image, you get on a call with a potential client like you did today, it's like, yeah, this is it. And people come into my space, I fucking achieve success, they win. Yeah. Because I'm I'm certain. I just— I know it. Yeah, like, they're paying for that. They're not paying for like, oh, this is my fancy offer stack, bonus this, scarcity that. Yeah, no, it's like, this is— I'm the fucking guy. Like, this is it.

Exactly. And I think it comes from that confidence, like you're saying, which is amazing. And then also, like, for me, I feel like the tactical side of it has just been that doing what you can to get back to that safety. So like cutting back expenses, like whatever you need so that you can be at a baseline where you're like, I don't need to sell hundreds of these, you know? Yeah. And then But also what I found really useful with this is like being really honest about what time capacity I have and how can I structure it in a way that like if I am selling more, it's like I'm happy about that. I'm not self-sabotaging because I'm like, fuck, now I've got like all this one-on-one stuff that I've committed to or something that I can't do in the season of life. Or so just being really honest about that as well, I think is really useful. And just kind of doing in a way that it kind of all lines up. Like for example, with when I was thinking about what I'm doing, I'm kind of doing like a circle layer and then a mastermind layer, but there still interconnected, you know. So just like, how can you make things easy for yourself? Because I think that's the other trap, is that like, if you're overgiving, or it's not— it doesn't actually feel in alignment, and it's what you think you're meant to be doing, that can bite you in the ass as well. Because then you can start to have like resentment and things like that, and it doesn't really work out. So I think being really honest with yourself as well, of like going back to that place, like, I am worthy and whole and complete, and knowing your value, which is innate. It's not just about how many like one-to-one X you have. Yeah, it's like, how can I create something epic but that's also not gonna fuck my own life in the process? So true, so true.

Yeah, yeah, there's that. That does create a nervous system field of energy of like, I have more than enough. Yeah. And, uh, when you can, or when I can have that internal security regardless of what's happening externally, even if my business is still not performing very well this month, but I can still operate from the place if I have more than enough Yeah, it always works out. Yeah, always have, always will. Exactly.

Yeah, because people think they have to put all these like arbitrary things in it, like, oh, we start on this date, or I need this many people in the cohort, or whatever. But do whatever you can to like make it easy so that you don't have to have that pressure as well, you know, even if it's like a rolling start date or whatever it is to like— because that, I think anything that puts a load of pressure on the whole situation, like that then affects your energy. Yes, so true. I was talking to Jess, who you briefly met in Perth, and it was really interesting. She talked about how she does a couple of retreats each year, like in New York and like all over the place. And she said without fail, within 7 days they've been at least 50% booked every time. And she's doing like a lot— she's doing like 6 figures a month, so she's like got a lot of profit there. But even so, she never— even when she launches a new retreat, even though she knows she's got a lot of profit, she knows that it'll be sold, she still doesn't book the venue until she's got 3 people people that sign up so that she covers the base costs. And she said it was just for an energetic reason because she never wants to sell from a place of like, oh, that's good, I've just paid this like deposit or whatever and I need to cover it, you know.

So it's just like, me, even when you have that, I wish, yeah, I wish I'd probably taken that kind of advice on. And because there's been times that, that was my hesitancy with retreats that I've done in the past, is yeah, you put this huge deposit down for this venue and now it's like, okay, now we need to fill these spots. Yeah, I actually need to start selling. I don't like that. That's, I don't, that's why I don't like launches that much. Because I don't like this thing of like, now I need to sell. Yeah, it's like, that's the wrong energy to come from.

100%. And that's why I've really liked with like the circle that I've— that I'm now doing. As part of it, you get a ticket to two events each year. So that way at least I know when I go to sell the event, I'll already have a couple of people there. Like, it's like I'm not worried that it's going to— like, I'll do it regardless. Even if I get no external people, I'll do it just for my current clients. So like, it's almost like a bit of a selfish reason for giving them a ticket. I'm like, this is good for you and good for me because it just means that like I can create from a place of safety.

Yeah, and it works out better because if half the retreat is your current clients, then the retreat's going to be epic already. And now you're like, cool, now we have 50% slots available for the general public or people who follow you. It's like, I've done that with my offer as well, which I think is the, is the way to go with events. Yeah, that's, that's great advice. Something I was saying to the fellas in my men's group recently, which, which I was reflecting on, was this— the expectation of whatever you do It's gonna be the best. Going into something with the expectation, this is gonna be amazing. This conversation we're about to have is gonna be the best podcast we've ever done. The client you've just signed is about to have the most transformative experience of their entire life. 2026 is gonna be the biggest and best year of my life. You know, everything that you do, this piece of content I'm gonna make is gonna be the most viral, the most best, like the most impactful. Like going in with the energy of this is gonna be amazing. Even my haircut, I was the other day going to get a haircut, my brother, went and got his haircut before me from the same barber, and it was kind of shit. I was like, ah, that's not very good, you did the fade too high. And I, in the drive down there, realized this doubt that was coming into my mind. And then I was like, oh no, wait a second, I'm gonna expect that this is gonna be the best haircut, this barber's gonna crush it, best haircut I've ever had. And I was like, he actually did a good job. I told him like, don't like do the fade too high, just come around, and he crushed it. Amazing. And I— it was just a great, like, these little things you can practice with expectations, bringing the energy in that I am the person who is worthy of receiving the best. Yeah, that field of energy then gets passed on to everything that you do, the people you interact with. And I feel like it was such a simple reminder for me because sometimes doubt can creep in, or like, I gotta go back here, hang out with this person, I gotta hang out with my family. But like, all those little stories or identities that are connected to the old you that that didn't set the standard for what he or she deserves, raise it. You deserve the best, nothing less, in your relationships, in your business. Why would you assume otherwise?

And is that just like an in-the-moment practice that you have, or is there something more to it in terms of planning? Or like, how do you set all that up for yourself?

Yeah, in the moment practice, but also in the mornings when I'm meditating now, it's like anchor into the truth of I have more than enough. I'm the source of all that is. Like, I Today I'm always chosen. You know, when I make content, it's the best. And then allow the mind to go into like, well, what's happening today? What's on the agenda today? Meeting with you, conversation with client or whatever. And then just see that energy of like, this is gonna be the best thing ever. This is gonna be life-changing. This is gonna be the best day of my life. Like almost like let the nervous system register that frequency before the event happens. So that when the event does happen, and even if you're remembering the energy and it doesn't go the best, it like turns out terrible. but you get to go, no, cool, next one will be even better. It doesn't get to like shift that certainty that you've already programmed in. Yeah, I remember that's, that's the, the real differentiator is like the certainty you have in your signal is what's determining the, the results, the speed of the results that you get. Have you ever studied Kabbalah? No, but I know of it. I'm like, that's literally the core principle, right?

Yeah, that's so, just so interesting because I'm studying at the moment. It's so interesting that you're saying that because that's like the core principle is certainty. Like you have to be certain Yes. And it's like, just talks about how like the creator or universe or whatever you want to call it is like, do they sell, do they doubt themselves? And you like, you need to be the same energy and frequency of, of like source, you know?

So it's just interesting as on earth as it is in heaven, right? Things will, um, you know, that there's a Bible quote which is seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all things will be done unto you, which means seek first the, the energy of heaven, the energy of God and all of his righteousness, which is all of the abundance and love and security and possibility. It's all here. Seek it first, and then all of these material things will be done onto you from, from that place. I love that, you know. So it's like coming back to that source energy first, or the divine, however you want to refer to it, and know that you are it. You are a part of that. I am it. So are you, you know. No one is better than you. No one compares to Yeah, right. And it's like, because God is not comparing to anyone. God is not thinking like, oh, this person runs his business like that, so maybe I should do it like that. No, like, whether— whether— whether— whether— category of one. So I, I— it's a— it's— it's a rewiring, I feel, to get out of that old comparison, doubt. Yeah. Lack. I don't know if this is— I'm good enough for this. Yeah. It's, um, yeah, it's like a nervous system rep. And what ha—

what has, um inspired you over the years, or how have you come to this belief system? Like, has that just been innate, or have you— like, has religion or spirituality or mindset work— like, what's gonna help to get you to this place?

I feel like when, when I was in a reality that I realized that I didn't want, that I created, that wasn't congruent with what I wanted, it, it woke me up to this idea of like, okay, if I made all these decisions in my life to get me to this point where I'm now an accountant working at one of the best companies in the world doing tax returns, going, I don't enjoy this at all, I don't actually want this, but I had made decisions all the way leading up through my schooling and my university and all of this that got me to this place. So then if this isn't what I want, then what is— what do I want? What do I want? You know? And then, and then the next question is like, okay, who do I need to be to have that external thing? So once I, once I started to ask those questions and I realized I need to change who I am because who I am right now is this reality.

Yeah, that's like very wise of you for like a young age as well though, to like have landed there, you know, to have kind of come to those conclusions. I feel like that's quite— yeah, that's amazing that you, that you just had that insight. You know, some people like they have that when they're 50. Yeah, that's true.

Yeah, I think there's like— like, I think we bonded at the retreat in LA over this like rebellious spirit that we have, which is like an unwillingness to like settle. Yeah, settle for less than what we know we're capable of. Settle, settle for like anything less than the most amazing, spectacular, beautiful life. And I just couldn't accept than being an accountant and settling for that life.

What do you think gave you that spirit? Do you think that was just from birth?

I don't know. I don't know. I think we're all imbued with like a certain quality or signature that we're meant to bring into this physical form. And I don't know where that comes from.

'Cause it's interesting 'cause that kind of explains like, you know, 'cause it is a big jump for you to have gone from like accountant to now like men's coach. And like, I know you were very into soccer sport, and I'm sure there was like a lot of like, you did it at a young age, you're like early 20s. I can imagine there would have been a lot of like stigma, peer pressure, like, you know, like guys your age like not getting it. Yeah. Like what was that journey like?

Yeah, I feel like no one got it. That's like was the hard part. And I know there's different, some guys that I coach are in their 40s or their 50s, they're going through that now as well. It's like they're realizing, well, not none of my friends are kind of on this, this wavelength here. Uh, but you need to find people who get it. It's imperative because there is a certain phase where, you know, I just pulled myself away from the people that I was hanging out with to be like, all right, I need to just like be, be on my own here because there's a certain energy I'm trying to tap into that is being distorted when I'm being pulled back into old patterns or old behaviors with certain people. And the moment I got clear on that, I started to find that there was certain people in my world, like my friend, one of my best friend's mom at the time was was into all this stuff like Wayne Dyer, and she was passing on a lot of these books and things. I was having these conversations with her, and it was just like the inspiration that I needed during that time to be around someone who got it, you know, like they could— had that level of consciousness. Um, so the moment, you know, I left the environment of Perth and traveled again, all of a sudden I was this new person, and I started to attract new people. So at the time, I didn't really understand what men's groups were. I didn't know that was a thing. I didn't know it was possible to find like people online to connect with or find your tribe or whatever. But if I was to go back and speak to that younger me, I'd be like, man, let's, let's go, go find your, your community. Maybe they're online. Maybe there's a, there's a group you can connect with every week that's like on this path. Or even now I see these young entrepreneurs when I'm in Austin who are like 23, they're living together, like they're growing these businesses, they're just create, like they're in the energy of creation. Yeah. And if I could go back and speak to that younger me, I'd be like, bro, go find that. Go and find the people who are doing this. Go and live with them. Go be around them. Because it's just like, it just expands it. Things happen quicker.

Yeah, you know, I guess back then it was harder to find too because like social media wasn't such a thing that you could just like— now you can easily just like see that there's other people doing things and like have that awareness, whereas back then you didn't really have that as much. No, no.

How was that for you when you were— because you coming out to here from Australia, right?

Yeah, I mean, I definitely always had that rebellious streak, but for me I think it was definitely also like I was always creative but also like had a very strict upbringing, so I think that made me rebel against everything, you know, because like It was like just rebelling against something, you know? And then like, you know, I moved out when I was like 17 and just have always been like very independent, very like, I'll do what I wanna do. But that, I think I also did like isolate myself a lot too, because I felt like if I was around other people that didn't get it, like I'd be kind of dragged down, but I didn't yet have the emotional intelligence, the awareness, the kind of, the tools to be able to kind of stay strong internally, like, around that. I was influenced more easily, I guess. So I felt like that made me kind of, kind of do my own thing. I was like a lone wolf, you know? Yeah. Um, so I kind of gradually over time, like, developed the tools, but it was always from kind of just, like, getting beaten around the place by the universe. Like, just, you know, like, just— yeah, it wasn't like, oh, I feel enlightened that this is what I'm going to do. It was more like, you know, I'm on the ground and I'm like, fuck, what's going on here? Is there another way? You know, of course. Um, so it's just like, yeah, but it took me a while to, to kind of come through this. And then like having kids as well, I think that was like really a big, massive like identity thing for me. And then yeah, I'm just like, I'm always learning. I think you never stop learning. And, um, it's like, yeah, just been, just been a work in progress from there. But yeah, like looking back, I would definitely same as you, like, want to connect with people that were on the same journey. But I don't regret anything because I need— like, we all needed to go on the journey that we need to go on, you know? And it's like, I feel like I can relate to a lot of people, and I can really understand— like, I've got, like, empathy towards situations that, say, my clients are going through and things like that. And I kind of just— it kind of motivates me to want to help people like that too, because I was like that for so long as well. 100%, you know? And I always love, like, Robin Williams has a quote, and it's something like like some of the funniest people in the world are actually the saddest because they understand how sad people can be and that's why they want to make them laugh and stuff like that. And I feel like that was almost like for me, it was like I get how it feels to be at the darkest days and I just really want to help. If I can help anyone even remotely come through something like that or just bring more lightness, then that's what I want to do. Of course.

Of course, yeah. And I was reflecting on that recently as well over Christmas with, with Amanda about how, you know, just like the challenges with family for me and my upbringing, and then the challenges around like my dad. And, you know, how sometimes I just wish I had— like, he was different. Sometimes I just wish he was more, you know, the friend, the, the, the, the father and best friend that I, you know, want to give to my children one day. He just like wasn't that for me. Uh, but Amanda reminded me like, that, that's— but that was beautiful. That was just what I needed in my development now to be at this stage where there's so many other people who have disconnected relationships with their family, or they're struggling with like relationships with their dad or whatever. And, you know, I, I got to learn so much from how dad raised me. Yeah. Which shaped who I am. And that's part of the medicine that I get to give to other people now. And if I had had the perfect dad and the perfect upbringing, then I wouldn't have access to this, this, this wisdom, or these, these things that I had to overcome in my journey to be able to pass on to someone else. So it's like like, it's all, again, it's all perfect and beautiful when you reflect on it like that.

Yeah. And like some philosophies say that you choose your parents as well. So like maybe that's what you chose because that's exactly what you needed.

100%. Yeah. What changed for you after you had kids? Like, was there something big that shifted?

I think in a way, because like, I think one of my big struggles throughout life has been like self-worth and not necessarily like, advocating for myself or feeling like I deserve anything. And I think having kids, it's like you, you just suddenly, you advocate for them, you know? You want them to have the best and you want to make sure that they're protected and safe and things like that. And you, in a way, I started to like re-parent myself and see that like I'm also worthy of these things as well, you know? And then also just like, I, I was never very maternal. And when I did have like my first, my first baby, like I was just actually shocked like how like in love with her I was. And I just didn't want to be anywhere without her. And so I had been someone that had like worked 80-hour weeks, like always hustling, always on, and that was the start of me questioning all of that and feeling worthy enough to like not be that and not be the doer and not be having to prove my worth by doing and like being everything for everyone and like all of that kind of thing. And then when I had my second, and they were really close together as well, which wasn't exactly planned, And that was just like fucking chaos, you know? And I think that made me really like need to have more structure and routines and just, yeah, it just made me really like, it kind of went into such chaos that I really needed to kind of unravel that and bring things back into like peace and calm and things. But what happened was that because I had such a strict upbringing, I found that I was like really lenient with my kids, you know? And it got to the point where that was even more chaotic, as you can imagine, because there's like not enough structure. But then it's like my inner child like just wanted everything to be peaceful and safe and calm. But by me wanting that and me being peaceful, safe, and calm but not having that structure, it was the opposite that I got, you know. Interesting. So it's like I had to experience like almost like the, the hardship of that to be like, okay, there, there's a middle ground here, and start to then bring back structure and routine and be able to like— I'm finding my own way of doing things that feels good for me, not just a rebellion of what I had as a child for sure, and doing the complete polar opposite, which is also not— wasn't working for our family. Yeah. And so there was kind of all of that, and then I don't know, like, kids are fucking needy. Yeah. And you think it's just gonna when they're babies, but even as they get older, they just want to be with you all the time, you know? So you really have to— there's just— you have to, like, if you've got boundary issues, that's going to be a big thing. That was a big thing for me, to like be able to still take time for myself even though like they might be crying or upset about that. If I'm like going to the gym and they're like literally like crying at the door, you know, and you're like, I have to work out. Yeah, nothing happens every day or anything like that, but like you have to actually be able to be okay with putting boundaries in place that are best for you and them and everyone in the house. And I've found that like as the kind of mother, like if your energy is off, the whole house is off, you know? And so it just becomes even— and same with relationship because like, you know, Neil and I had always been like, you know, we've been together 15 years, everything had just been like fine, everything's like hunky-dory, you know? But then having kids, we kind of got— our relationship got deprioritized. And then that actually, a lot of issues kind of started happening because we just weren't prioritizing each other. And then that was actually, I feel like, reflecting in the whole household. So it's like, it became critical that like our relationship was 100% strong to actually for the benefit of like the kids as well. So yeah, it was a lot of— there was a lot to work through.

Yeah. And when, when you decided to have kids, were you internally ready? Was there a part of you that was like, okay, I'm ready now to have kids? Or was like, were you never—

not really, not really. I mean, I hadn't like— so when we got married, we kind of like essentially were like, okay, if it happens, it happens. Like, we stopped using birth control. And but then like 3 years, it was like 3 years and nothing had happened. And but we weren't trying though, do you know what I mean? We weren't like— I wasn't worried about it. But I, I think in some ways I kind of had like normalized it's not going to happen unless I like put like, like strategic effort into it. Like, you hear people like finding the exact day to have sex and like, you know, like all that. Like, we like— so I was like, in my mind I was like, okay, well, it's not happening, so obviously we're gonna have to like be more strategic with it, like when we're ready. But then like I got pregnant. So it was this— even though obviously like I wasn't— we weren't using like birth control, so it shouldn't be a surprise, but it was a surprise in a way because it was 3 years in. But at the same time, I felt like, you know, I was like 31 when I got pregnant. Like, so it's not, it's not like I was like, oh my God, teen, teen mom. I didn't even know I felt like I was a teen mom.

You got to live some of that independence and all that.

So like, it was all perfect, but it was like very much— but what I always laugh about is that like having kids is the thing that I did not put any energy into in terms of like, didn't think about it, didn't worry about it, didn't stress about it, didn't strategize about it. And every— like, I got pregnant, like, when it was obviously meant to be. Yeah. And then 10 months— like, I was— Elsie was 10 months and I got pregnant again. Wow. And like, I hadn't even— like, I mean, this is probably TMI, but like, I hadn't even finished breastfeeding. I hadn't got a period back. Like, I just did not think it could even happen, and I just got pregnant again. So it was like fully like the universe or the creator or the time— like, that was just the time that the babies were meant to come through. Like, you know? Yeah. And then I compare that to like business where I've like grinded and hustled and forced and pushed. And that's where all in my life, mostly in my life, that's been like where everything is like been hard and a struggle. And like the things that I've tried to force most have been like the hardest. That seems—

yeah, it's so interesting how that plays out, eh? Because a lot of people are trying to force— have kids rather— like they're trying to get out on the right of the day and this time and do all these rituals and all that. But it's usually when you just like let it go and And just allow the flow of energy. It comes through like for you in abundance, like kids just popping out.

I know, and that's what I'm trying to now apply to business.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? Okay. And give up that control. Yeah, 100%. I just, the kid conversation is quite prevalent for me in my life with friends and whatnot and Amanda and I and one of my cousins.

Yeah, 'cause you've been together a while.

Yeah, yeah, 10 years. Yeah, so one of my cousins that I'm visiting right now is the same age as me. He just had a kid like 4 weeks ago. And hanging out with this newborn baby and seeing the, just the energy of that and just going like, oh wow, I'm ready for this. Let's go. This is the time. Amazing. But you know, Amanda, I think as men, I think it's easy for us to be like, yeah, we're ready. It's time to pump it out. But it's a different experience for the ladies. And Amanda wants, you know, a little bit more time. And I'm like, okay, fine. I can respect that. Like she has to carry this thing for 10, 8 months, 9 months. And then the life is completely altered during that time, right? Whereas for the guy, guys were just kind of, we're just there still. Yeah. So I have a bit more grace and compassion for, uh, the female experience in, in that. But I, I'm, I'm definitely ready to step into fatherhood. It's something I'm so excited about. Yeah.

And do you feel like you want to be married first, or you just, you're happy to have kids?

Yeah, I think ideally, ideally married first. Yeah. But, you know, I'm not going to, you know, say that we can't have kids because, like, the marriage thing.

Yeah. You're not like, it's not, you're not attached to that?

No. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if that's something in, in Christianity where there's a rule around that, but I don't know.

Yeah. I feel like that narrative is like very much being left behind.

For sure, for sure, for sure. You know, 'cause I kind of feel like I've been married to Amanda for so long.

Exactly. It's just a piece of paper.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, there's that. This is the year. This is the year for me to like step into that next level because as you were sharing that, I'm reflecting on like that's such a huge initiation. You know, when you've learning to set boundaries, not just with yourself and other people, but your own children. Like what does that look like? That's not easy. That's, that's tough. Like, there's obviously limits to how much you can give if you're not pouring into yourself. And yeah, all of these different things to navigate.

Yeah. And lots more to navigate in a relationship and everything. It's like, if you're wanting to do spiritual work, you're no— you'll have no shortage of opportunities if you have kids. I know, I know.

And that's again where I was thinking back to, like, as a coach, like, how much more credible one becomes when they're, when they're a parent. Yeah. So Yeah, I see that on the horizon for, for me.

Yeah, that's awesome. And so like, because you guys have been together, did you say 10 years? Yeah. So how, like, how have you guys kept connected over such a long time? Because you guys are obviously so close and so connected to one another. How have you managed that?

Yeah, it's funny, I put out a carousel post today about it. I can't even remember what I put in the carousel post, but it was something that like I'd shared because I feel like the connection or the attraction or the level of intimacy in long-term relationships relationships can fluctuate at times. And I feel like it ultimately comes back down to the— there's sometimes there's periods where I'm like, I'm going through something, you know, my energy is not at 100%, or I'm just like, like I'm battling through something. And I know during those times Amanda's not feeling— probably not feeling as attracted to me, and vice versa. She's going through something, maybe her health game's a little bit off, or she's just struggling with, with whatever. And, and sometimes the attraction can, can go down during that period, but But what I feel like is the most powerful thing is like when I can still be there supporting her, she can still be there supporting me and support or allow whatever it is that I need during that time to pop out the other side. The moment I pop out the other side or she pops out the other side, there is like a new level of intimacy. There's a new level of attraction. There's a new level of appreciation because I feel like we're inspired by our partners when we see them go through something tough and they pop out the other side. And when we can be that support system for them to be like, oh wow, you, you really pulled it through. That was, that was, that was epic. Like, I love that. Or if we have time away from each other and, and where we start to miss each other, but we're going through the hard time, the hard struggle on our own maybe, and then you come back and you go, wow, I'm so grateful to have you here because, uh, the, the solo time was tough. Now I get to really relish in being in your company and your, in your presence. So what I'm trying to say is like As long as there's an acceptance and allowance of the continual evolution of our own inner process, that will then support the continual evolution of the joint process, the togetherness of that. I feel like that's what's helped us so much. There's like a continuous level of independence in our own growth that makes our union so much stronger.

How do you not get disconnected though, when you go through your own personal journeys and kind of, you're doing that, like solo time, even if you are together, but you're going through something, like how do you not get disconnected from one another?

I was saying this to one of the other guys that I was coaching the other day, which is like, if your partner, or for this, for the man's perspective, if your wife or your girlfriend senses that you have like one foot out of the relationship, if you're, even if you're 70% in, 30% out, that energy, she's gonna pick up on that. She's not really gonna be able to open to you, to pour into you, to provide that soft nurturing spirit that you really need during those hard times. And I feel like so many guys have like slightly, they have a bit of a foot out. Like, ah, I don't know if she's the one or I don't know if I want to commit to this fully. And that's the energy that will fuck it up because in my relationship with Amanda, I've always been in, always, we've always been all in on each other. Even when in the most challenging times, there's no like, there's no out. We're going to figure this out. We'll make it work. Like the expectation thing I was saying before, this will be the best thing that ever happened to us. Even though right now it's tough, we will make it through and we'll figure it out. And that level of certainty that she feels, and I feel like the feminine thrives of a male, the masculine certainty that we've got this. Like, we're gonna pull it through. I'm gonna pull it through. I will figure it out. I'm determined to figure it out. And I think that is what has allowed her to, I don't know, still feel the trust in me that we're gonna make it through. So I always come back to that. Like, just the knowing, the conviction of like, we're gonna make it through even if it seems like we're going in different directions right now.

And do you ever internalize, like, if she is going through something, like internalize that as like, oh, why is she so rude to me? Or like, you know, that you're taking like, she's experiencing something herself, but you're kind of taking that as like something that's, you know, happening to you.

Yeah, I guess if you're living together and one person is in their struggle phase or another person is going through their glow-up phase, it's like part of you is like, I don't want, I don't want to take on that bad energy. I don't want to be, I don't want your vibe to affect me. But at the same time, that's the grace where it's like, okay, if I'm thriving right now and she's in the struggle, I get to be the the space to be like, yo, whatever you're struggling through right now, like, I'm here for it, I got you. Like, it doesn't— it doesn't have to, you know, the enmeshment of energy doesn't need to happen. That's a very careful point in relationships. If you can't let your energies get too enmeshed— and what I mean by that is like entangled with each other, which is like if they're having a bad day, now you're having a bad day. Or like they complain about something and it triggers you, now you're fucking in complaining victim mode. It's like, no, like, be, be the certainty, be the internal thing that doesn't get shaken by your environment. Again, the masculine— if the masculine can be that, like, the signal— your signal is clear, coherent, and your landscape is solid— no matter what she's going through, she can rest up against you or bump up against you and feel that solidarity or that security. And, and that— I feel like that's, that's the thing. That's— I don't know, as a, as a woman, I, I don't know, like, how does that feel for you when you—

well, it sounds like you guys hold each other to very high standards. Yes. Would you say that's true?

For sure. Yeah. I mean, it's not like— it's your own detriment at times. Like, I'm the one that's like, if a man is like eating too much sugar or it's like not training at the gym, like, hey, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna get down to the gym today. Or like, feel like you've had enough coffee for one day, like— and she doesn't like it when I do that. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, for respect, that's fine. I, I trust you to make your own decisions. Yeah. I'll just be it. Like, I'm not gonna— I'll be the one that anchors these standards around health. And yeah, when she's ready to meet me there, she will. This delicate balance. It is.

Well, what about like choosing, choosing the battles? Like, do you feel like you call out everything and anything that you're just like— we'd like, you know, say she, I don't know, is a little bit passive-aggressive, like just is a bit like in a mood or something like that. Do you like— what's your relationship with like, okay, I'm gonna let this fly, or we need to address things in the moment?

Yeah, I'm— I go by like attraction, how my body feels. Am I turned on by her? Is my body responding to her? And if there's certain behaviors that she's doing that it's like not attractive to me, I'll let her know. But it's a—

if it's repeated. Yeah, more if it's repeated than a one-off. Yeah, for sure.

Because, you know, it's obviously going to be things that like one-off things, of course, like we're all, you know, fallible and, and all of that. But if there's repeated— for me, big things is it's around health. Like I'm a big— like there's poor decisions made around health, and I— because health is such a big pillar for me, and I really try to be strict with my diet and my, like, how my energy, my internal energy, and maybe again to my own detriment. But if I'm around someone, like, my partner needs to be into their health. Yeah, they can't be like lazing around or just like eating sugar and not giving a fuck about their health. And I'll reflect that back to her if I'm like, hey, like, I don't know, it's not really attractive to me. Yeah, you do that. And in, in the right way to hopefully inspire her to want to step in. And likewise with me, I want her to give me that reflect. When I'm in passive energy and not leading her in the way she needs to be led, or I'm just like letting her make all the decisions, like, I want her to tell me, like, that's not attractive. Yeah, that's not the kind of man I want to be with. And she's done that for me many times.

It's like, you can be like mirrors for one another. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

That, that is the key. If you can be mirrors for each other, knowing that you're on the same team and you, you're doing that to inspire more out of them, to step, to help raise the standard for, for each other in the relationship, that's That's, that's beautiful.

What about like, so long-term relationship, you're living together but you start to, you know, you're still getting on great, but like, have you ever fallen into phases where it feels more like roommates?

Yeah, I feel like the roommate syndrome in long-term relationships is, is so common, and it's more of a symptom of that lack of pursuing the things that makes you the most alive. That sometimes is not in the relationship. I feel like men need things outside of the relationship that make them come alive, as do, as do women. Like creative outlets, people, projects, experiences. Roommate syndrome is like now you're just complacent, like going with the flow of what each other wants to do. Or maybe there's one partner or one person that's now compromised his passions and joys because his partner doesn't want to do them. And I say to the guys that I work with, I know you have to go and shoot whether your partner likes it or not. Like surfing— Amanda hates being in the ocean. She doesn't swim in the ocean. She doesn't go surfing. I love that shit. So why would I ever like not go and do that because she doesn't want to? Yeah, like, and I would never let her get in the way, nor will she ever get in my way. She'll never want to get in my way of me pursuing those things. To me, that's a sign of a healthy relationship. If your partner is getting in the way of you doing the things that you love, that needs to be addressed. Yeah.

And see, this is one of the challenges as well when you have kids, because it becomes like not as simple as that too, you know what I mean? Because it's like there's this like battle for time in a way. Wow. 'Cause it's like, it's not just her getting in the way of you surfing anymore, for example, it's like that she's then left with the baby. Of course.

Tell me how you've navigated that because that's something I observed in my cousin and his wife was how they navigate this relationship of like, cool, I'll get up early today. Like I'm gonna be the one to get up if the kid's crying and sacrifice my sleep so that you're feeling a little bit fresh tomorrow. And so you can pull back into yourself to, and it comes back around. How did that work for you guys?

Yeah, I mean, like, I feel like we've been a good team and we like tag team well and stuff like that. But then that's what sort of did push us into that roommate, teammate, collaborator energy of like, yeah, I've got them, maybe you do it. Yeah, okay, cool. I got— and then it's like you just like are teammates or like you're, you know, it's like you, you kind of like not only is that person now like your lover, they're also your kind of like childcare so that you can go and like have some space or whatever like that, you know. And then it's harder to have that time that's just for the two of you. And it just becomes like— so it took a while to kind of navigate that. And I think it comes back to like really prioritizing just like time for just the two of you to, to connect. And, um, and like, yeah, like being able to like— because then it becomes like you, you now need time for just literally alone time where you can tag team. You also need time for family time as a family unit. And then you also need time that's just you guys without the kids kids, and it's just trying to like hit all those things and then also work and then also this and also that. Like, it's, it's a juggling act and it's like you fail all the time. Yeah, you know. So yeah, I think it's just like grace that like that is like a fucking mission to work out like how, like work through that. Like, it's— I mean, like my oldest kid is 3 and I feel like we're only almost like now finding a better rhythm with all that, you know.

Like, it just, it takes time and you do fuck it And yeah, well, I feel like you're really inspiring because not only are you doing that, you're also running a business and, you know, you're managing entrepreneurship around all of that. There was no like maternity leave, I'm sure that. Yeah, not much. How did, you know, how did that work for you? Because I'm sure there's a lot of, even for Amanda, right? Like when we talk about these things, like she's, there's no maternity leave for her. And it's like, she still has all these desires and things she wants to do in the world of business. Projects she wants to work on, but it's like, yeah, how do you navigate that now when you're in motherhood? And yeah, like, yeah, I don't know, it just seems like you, you do such a great job of like balancing both. How did that— what did you have to discover? What unlocked for you?

I think just knowing that there is like no balancing, you know, it'll always be— it's almost like I think of it like, you know, you're cooking dinner and you've got like, you know, there's like 6 like hot pans or whatever. You can only, you can only be stirring like 2 sauces at one time. Like you can't— and then you need to turn the other one down and then you can turn another one be stirring like 5 things all at once and like expect this amazing dish, you know? So it's not that you can't do everything or have everything, but it's just like you kind of like have more of one and then more of another, and it kind of is like this continuous dance between. And I think just like surrendering to that essentially and not trying to like control all of that and just allowing, allowing that to happen and letting go perfectionism and knowing that like it'll change all the time and just like, as someone that used to like want to control everything, I've had to really give that up because like you cannot control it, you know. And like, and then just like working, working through all those things, like, you know, leaning into when we've needed to, leaning into reading parenting books or asking a friend or, or even getting a parenting coach or, um, doing some relationship coaching, or just like tapping into those resources as we need to, to like get support and know that like it is something that you need to work through and you can work through it, but But I guess it's trying to not judge yourself for that and trying not to— yeah, just accepting that it is a really challenging period and it's a lot to navigate. And of course, there's a lot of learning in that and it's not going to be perfect. And again, it's learning to love your challenges because now looking back, it's like last year was probably the toughest year of our relationship because we just had two really young kids, we both were working, we had just moved interstate, we had no family there, we knew no one when we first moved there. And I, like, I'm so grateful for all that now because, like, it really helped me evolve, like, on a spiritual level, because it's like I had to. Yeah, you know? Yeah, yeah. It's like a forced initiation. A forced initiation. And it's kind of like what I was saying, like, coming back to that self-worth. It's like, can I still be worthy of, like, even though I've got so many people wanting stuff of me all the time, can I still like have enough self-worth that I can also advocate for myself and what I want to do. And then like, of course, having a supportive partner. Like, Neil is so supportive. Like, even when I went to LA, I brought— like, I brought Elsie one time as a baby, and I took her with me to Mastermind. And the next time, he looked after the kids, then he went away for a week. So I think also having a partner that's like on that same page and it's like happy to— like, they're, they're good, you know? They're not like, you know, because I know like some friends, like, they've got partners and they're like, oh my God, I couldn't leave my partner with my child for like a night. And I'm like, that's outrageous, like, he's the dad, you know. Like, so I think having that— yeah, holding yourself to that standard too, that this is like an equal partnership and we're both, you know— of course there might be, and we've had to kind of lean into this too, where it's like, it's not always going to be exactly equal. Like, maybe I can be more— like, I love cooking, and that could be more my thing, and this can be more his thing. But like, finding that like flow within it all, you know.

Well, how important do you feel like the environment's for you because being in Noosa is like such a beautiful environment. Do you think that's a massive factor as well?

I think massive. I think massive in terms of like, if I was still in Sydney, it's like the, the norm is to like have the kids in daycare the whole time and just being in the city working or whatever. Even if you have your own business, it's like much more like that. Whereas here I just feel I've been surrounded by like a lot of people homeschool here. There's a lot of people that don't work. And not— I always want to work, but it's— I feel like it's having that space and quieter time and less distractions has allowed me to like invest more time with my kids and be able to be in quieter spaces with them and not have to like, like use work for escapism, which I did a bit at the start. Like, it's just like, fucking hell, like, get me out of here, I need to like work because like that's a valid reason for me to like get, get out for a couple hours, you know. But, um, I think environment is key. Like, I'm really glad that I'm here and that I did end up here, you know, just to have that like more spaciousness and more perspective as to like what I want and what's important.

Yeah, because even I feel my nervous system when I'm out here like just, I don't know, just unwinds more. Yeah, effortlessly. Yeah, the signal's a little bit clearer. Yeah, just feel like I can tap in a little bit more easier. Yeah, then say a more, you know, busier city or yeah, being where I'm not close to the ocean, I just find them when I'm in Austin even, it's like a little bit more challenging for me to tap in out there because it's not my ideal environment in terms of nature. Yeah, so So yeah, I'm just like really reflecting on that for myself. Like, where do I want to raise my family? And how the environment is almost like that great space holder that can be the extra kind of support system that helps us stay calm and regulated in times of chaos and intensity.

Exactly. Yeah, no, it's been really good. So yeah, I've got a couple of like rapid fire questions that I want to ask you at the end, if that's okay. All right, so because you guys have been been in a long-term relationship, I'm so curious about this. But I don't know if you saw Justin Bieber recently. He was like trending on like TikTok and Instagram because, uh, basically he was saying that— he did an interview about himself and, um, Hailey, and he said if you ever— if you even think of a woman with lust, it's the same thing as actually doing it. What are your— what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, there was a lot of debate.

Yeah, interesting. Yeah, I didn't see this. Is it okay for a man to have lustful thoughts? I feel like the lustful thoughts are more of a symptom of something where he's disconnected from himself. You know, that style of thinking is him being pulled out of his body. And I would examine, okay, like, I wouldn't judge the thoughts as like, yeah, you're cheating on your partner, like, shame on you. No, just be like, all right, where is this coming from? What's, what's the root of this? And I feel like for a lot of guys that I've coached in the past, who you could say watching porn is a form of lust, you're fantasizing about this thing on a screen. A lot of that is coming from the overwhelm, the intensity that they haven't learned to handle in their bodies. And it's escape. It's a form of escape. You're escaping the internal intensity of whatever you're dealing with right now in your life. And fantasy is one way to project you out of that. So it's like, what are you afraid of facing? Where's the things in your life right now that are out of alignment that's causing you to just like want to like eject from your body. So less shame and judgment around it, but more about, cool, if, if you're noticing that's happening in the mind, go back to like, what's causing this in my body? What am I avoiding in my body? Um, because if it is happening repetitively and you're aware of it, then yeah, you've, you've, you know, you're not here present. So even if you're cheating on her or not physically, energetically you're not even there for her. There's a level of abandonment that you're bringing to the relationship because you're too busy fantasizing. So there's elements of truth in it. Uh, I think the main thing that I like to focus on is like, all right, what are we gonna do about it? How can we bring you back to being fully here and present? You know what I mean? Yeah.

But there is like a healthy level of lust, or not at all?

I feel like the, the word lust is, is maybe the wrong word for me. Like, I think there should be a healthy— like, when I see a beautiful woman and I, and I'm— I see a beautiful woman walking past the road, I'm like, wow, like, that's stunning. Like, like, my body responds to that. That's a natural thing, but I'm not, you know, fucking 2 minutes later still thinking about it and like thinking about what I would do to that. It's like I can acknowledge it, I see it, and then you come back to now. And it doesn't have to be something where you're pulled into fantasy. And if the mind— that a man's mind is going into that place, then I, again, I'm examining— I would say that's a symptom of him not being in control of something in his life. There's something that he's not in control of— an addiction, a dependency, something that's like causing him to not feel safe in his body. So his mind is trying to pull him elsewhere.

So if a girl's with her partner and she can kind of see him checking someone out, and it's not like, oh my God, like it's not, but it's just like, you know, that's— you think that's like normal? Or is that like something if she gets offended by that, that's more of an insecurity?

Or I think it should be like, if Amanda shows me— she sometimes she'll show me things on Instagram of like inspiration of these chicks with— in bikinis that she's getting inspiration for. Her bikini set. I'm like— and if I see an absolute, like, rocket, I'm like, wow, she's, she's stunning. I'm like, who is that? That's stunning. Holy crap, this woman's beautiful. I will say that to Amanda. Like, because what am I going to pretend that I can't appreciate and acknowledge beauty? Like, that's fucking beautiful. And she doesn't take that personally. She's like, oh yeah, cool. Because she knows I, I would always choose her. Yeah, I would always choose her. I've never picked a temporary thing to override the love and devotion I have to her. So it's It would come back to that. If the woman's getting insecure, then, then it's something that they need to work on within. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. It's like, where do you not trust your man?

Where do you not trust yourself? Or it could be sometimes I think when people— when, when women, um, equate their value to how they look, which is just very common in this society. I mean, that's what society rewards. 1000%.

I know, I actually think that's a part of it as well, when a woman doesn't like love herself so much. Like when that energy of self-love is not there, that's the thing that that's actually not very attractive for a man. Like for me, that's what I love about, you know, a woman that is like really confident in herself. She just loves herself. She's like, she's not in this energy of like, I'm not good enough, or like, ah, like I look fat or whatever. It's like, no, she's like owns who she is and she's in that like energy of like full ownership. That's super fucking attractive. And a man that's with that woman isn't going to cheat on that woman. If he does, he's a fucking idiot. But most men who are attracted to those kinds of women are the ones that go, oh yeah, I feel that. I feel the strength and the power in this woman has in her own embodiment. And that's the thing that I'm like devoted to, because physical stuff's going to change. She's going to get old. Yeah, she's going to have kids. Like, her body's going to change. But it's like that energy of like knowing who the fuck she is, is the thing that an embodied man is pulled towards and attracted towards.

So how much of it does come down to physical attraction then?

I feel like there's a certain level, there's a certain level. Like I've said before, it's like I want my woman to be into health and fitness. Like if I'm, you know, training hard at the gym and take care of my health and that vitality and energy that comes along with that, but my girl is lazy and eating sugar and like not giving a fuck about her health, and well, that behavior isn't attractive to me.

So it's more the behavior then?

Yeah, yeah, because the, the, the, the, the, the effect is a result of the, of the cause, and the cause is like, hey, I'm going to take care of myself and take my care of my energy and my body and what I put in my body, and then The effect is the physical appearance. Yeah. So the physical appearance is just the reflection of the cause of the decisions of the behaviors, right? Which, which I think is what's more attractive. Like, she doesn't need to have the perfectly sculpted body because sometimes these women are in the gym like over-obsessing about the sculpted like shape of their muscles and they're overtraining. That's not attractive to me either because what's the place that it's coming from? Insecurity, not enough, and I need to like have the perfect body. But if like the decision back there is like, I take care of my health, I put the right things in, I honor what my body needs moment to moment, and that's super attractive and ultimately turns into a body that reflects that vitality, that reflects that energy that ultimately my body is responding to. I'm responding to that energy that she's bringing. Yeah, you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so social media etiquette when you're in a relationship— can you like and comment on other people's posts or not? Like, what is— yeah, like if you saw like a really hot girl, you'd like the post?

Like, I don't follow women that post most half-naked pics because—

but sometimes does it serve to you?

Um, random chicks, maybe. If I— by my feed, my feed just doesn't have that. Like, honestly, like, I've just culled it all. But if I have a friend that I'm following that, like, she looks beautiful and she's put up a post and it's, it's just her, like, sharing something, fuck yeah, I like it, comment, love it, you look great, let's go, I'm here for it. Because, like, I want to support you, like, I love you, you're awesome. But if I'm just, like, engaging in some random chick's half-naked pic or I'm, like, trying to comment and like it to show her, then I'm like, I'm in the background kind of like checking you out, then where's the place— like, where's that coming from?

It's just the intention behind it.

Intention behind it, for sure. Yeah, for sure.

Okay, totally. Following exes.

I've had an ex in like 11 years, but I follow my ex. Uh, actually, no, I don't. I don't. But I think it should be okay.

It depends on the situation.

Yeah, it's in the situation for sure.

So your partner's all right with it. Checking your partner's phone.

If you feel the need to check your partner's phone, I would look, I would examine that. Yeah, what, what part of you doesn't trust her? Yeah, what part of you doesn't trust him? Why? Like, what, where are you insecure? With the back to the insecurity, what, you're not feeling that sense of security within yourself? Yeah, and that's the place to look at because that lack of security within yourself is probably the thing that's going to push him or her away to start talking to other people, to seek that, that level of fulfillment in the relationship might not be them cheating on you, but it'll be them seeking a level of, like, sustenance from other areas in their life that are not from you because you're not secure, you're not pouring into them in the way that they need. So it's all about you, it's not about them. Yeah, you know. Yeah, yeah.

And I guess, like, having that conversation, if you feel like your partner is doing any of those things, even just saying— like, I love Brené Brown, she says, like, the story I'm telling myself is Like, the story I'm telling myself is that, like, when we go out, like, you seem to be checking out all these other girls. Like, I've seen your feed is full of, like, half-naked women. Or, like, if that was the case— like, I'm sure, like, most people have great intentions— but, like, if that was the case, I think also having, like, open dialogue, right, is, like, so important.

Yeah. And I, I obviously speak to the men for a moment, which is, if your feed is full of half-naked women, you're following these OnlyFans models, or you're following these random chicks because they're super hot and you're opening that up and that's all you see on your Instagram, look, like, the question is why? Why are you bombarding yourself with that level of distraction? If you're single, even if you're single, actually, what, what, what is that serving you? Well, it's causing you to go into your head, into fantasy, out of your body right here, right now, the, the aliveness that's already here. What, what are you distracting yourself from? So like, I don't think porn serves no place. Following these, these half-naked influencers, no place. For a man. Remove it. Because like, if you ask yourself, what, what is it serving you? What good is it giving you right now? Firing off the dopamine and going, oh, like, I really want that. But what is it translating into? Yeah, you're becoming more depleted and a little bit more like in your head.

I'm like, lack in a way, right? It's that feeling of lack, like I don't have enough with what I have.

100%. Yeah. And I guarantee you, as you, as you cull those things away as a man and you reclaim your energy, your potency, your presence, you just bring it all back to your body and your system, and you start to move through the world from that place, and you, you know, you're just living your freaking life, and you cross paths with, you know, a beautiful woman that's out in the surf, and you go, oh wow, she's stunning, and there's like an energetic connection there, and you just, you just fucking say something, and she interacts with your energy in a way that she goes, oh, he's— there was— it was the way he said that. Yeah, it was just like the tone or whatever.

Yeah, it's— and as a woman, I think I would much prefer if like if I meet a man or something like that, or we're, you know, going out for dinner or something, and someone says, you look beautiful, and then it's just a passing— but it's just like, it seems very genuine. Like, versus if someone said nothing but they're kind of like looking you up and down and stuff, that feels more awkward, you know what I mean? Because you're like, you're maybe checking me out and think that maybe I look beautiful, but you're kind of like hiding it and covered— like, it just feels weird, you know? Much for— but then you also don't want something like, you look amazing, and they're really like— you don't want to be like creepy. But like a genuine— like, I would never take offense from someone being like, oh, you look beautiful, you know? And I would prefer that as a woman than like creepy looks.

100%, you know? Yeah, it's interesting because like now we have this underlying prerequisite for men who are single. If you want to find the queen or attract the queen, start with the cull of all the things that are leaking your energy, right? But then go to the thing of, are you pursuing the things that make you come alive? And I, in my case, I'm realizing, you know, working out at great gyms, going to studios, going to classes, going on the surfing, I was just reflecting on my time here. I've become aware, I've noticed like lots of beautiful women doing these things. So if I was single and I'm just living my life doing the things that I love, there's been countless opportunities for me to interact with a beautiful woman and go up and speak to her without the need for me to pull out my phone and slide into her DMs or be on Tinder. It's everywhere. They're all, they're all out there. Yeah. So like for the guy, for the guys who's not struggling to find it, it's because they're not pursuing the things that make them come alive. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's funny when you say that, you remind me of Liam, for it— because what we connected on initially at, like, at a mastermind. Yeah. And he talked about how, like, because he moves around a lot, and I was— we were just talking about, like, connections and how— not even women, he was talking about actually men, like friends. How do you meet friends? Does he travel and things like that? And he's like, I just go to places that I think this would be an awesome place to go with my best friend. Like, you know, whether it's a plunge pool or a sauna or whatever it and he's like, more often than not, I'll meet someone there and we'll hit it off and become great friends. And I was like, I just loved that, man.

He, he, uh, he— the reason we're sitting here right now is because of what he did in Austin, um, in 2024, where me and him went to the Honor Gym to work out and we were training, and then this girl came into the gym that was like an absolute rocket. She just like stood out in front of, you know, in, in this gym, mainly guys And I watched him approach this, this woman to be like, I need— he's like, I need to speak to her. And obviously I'm in a relationship, I'm like, it's not something I would ever act on. But he had to go up and approach this woman, got her number, came out, it's like, oh, here's this chick number, here's her Instagram, and it's Anna. That's hilarious. Yes. So we both followed her and like what, all of that, uh, because she was a gun, like biohacker, business coach, marketer, all these things. So she was just a powerhouse. And then fast forward like, you know, a year later, she's running this retreat, and Liam goes to the retreat, tells me it's the most amazing experience ever, and he's like, you need to come to the next one. I'm like, sounds great, I'm in, let's go. And then we meet at her retreat, and Anna's like one of my, one of my like really good friends. I meet her boyfriend Aaron, who's like one of the like biggest influencers in the spiritual space online. He's now one of my good friends. Like, the, at the— what opens up when you take action on like something calling to you? Hey, I need to approach person. Not just with women, with guys too. Sometimes me and Liam will see like really cool dudes, be like, man, we need to connect. This guy looks fucking dope, let's go say hello. Like, he's whatever the fuck he's doing, let's connect with that. Yeah, just take shit tons of action and people around people. Yeah, just say hello to people all the time. Yeah, someone looks cool, go up and introduce yourself. Mate, whatever the fuck you're doing, what do you do? Yeah, what do you do, bro? You look cool, we should hang out. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, like people respect that.

Yeah, because it's rare. Love that, love that so much. Love this conversation so much. It's been great, it's been great.

Thanks for coming on, and thanks for also facilitating this in your backyard out here in Coolum, Western Australia— Coolum, Sunshine Coast. Yeah, because last time we were in Western Australia, now we're in your homeland. So yeah, thanks for facilitating this and organizing this.

Yeah, you're a rock star. You too. Thanks, Jordan. Thanks, Katie.