Why Your Relationship Is Quietly Killing Your Confidence (and What To Do About It) with Jordan Candlish

Hello, my love, and welcome to Seen, the podcast that helps you to stop hiding, claim your worth, and build the most vibrant version of your life possible. Thank you so much for being here. Hello, my love, and welcome to Seen. And I am so excited today to have Jordan Candlish, a men's relationship coach and just mentor throughout the years. And we met at a mastermind in LA a couple of months ago, and I was so impressed with Jordan. He does incredible content for his community on Instagram. He does all these skits for relationships and really helps make it approachable, I think, and easy for men to kind of take on relationship advice. And Jordan came into the space before it was even a conversation and has really grown such a solid community, has coached hundreds of men. And I'm so excited to explore relationships today because I find, even though this podcast is called seen, I really find that if you are not feeling safe to be seen in your relationship, it's impossible to, to do it just to an audience or to random people on the internet. So thank you so much for, for joining me today.

Thanks for having me on. It's a pleasure to be here.

Yeah, it's so exciting. So, um, yeah, I would love to start by just kind of exploring that concept with you. So I've really got this theory that like if you cannot show up at home, like if you are not feeling in a good place and like you can really express yourself and be yourself and, you know, you're in a safe space in your relationship, that you can't just go and shine in the external world. Like, have you— how do you feel about that? Have you noticed that yourself in all the work that you do with men?

Yeah, I feel like there's different layers to it for sure, um, because I feel as though, you know, we're each going through our own individual process and journey and evolution and ups and downs in and around all of that but then you've got your significant other going through the exact same thing. And sometimes if you're going through a low period or you're going through a struggle or something's coming up for you emotionally, you know, it can really cloud your ability to show up in the relationship. And sometimes a lot of people, me in the past, would sometimes think like, hey, maybe there's some— maybe this relationship isn't it. Maybe, maybe if I'm losing attraction to my partner or we're arguing a little bit more than normal, like you can start to think it's the relationship, but usually it's it's yourself. You're just going through something. And what I found is just being able to step back and just realizing that there's the seasons to everything, seasons to our relationship too, uh, that you can kind of ride the waves a little bit more. And ultimately, that's what makes your relationship stronger and you stronger, when you know that this is just a part of, part of the ride. Some days you're going to be your best, some days you're not. And I think when you can honor that, your partner then becomes your, your greatest ally, becomes your teammate. Rather than your enemy. And that's where so many people I see in relationships get unstuck, because their partner's not supporting them. They're not supporting— they're not, you know, you're not, you're not being your teammate and blocking and tackling and helping you kind of go through those challenging times. So I would say that's, that's kind of the main thing, is learning to take some responsibility, but then also learning to, to be on the same team.

Yeah, I love that you said that, because it is— it does come back to you. And people can be so quick to kind of point the finger and like just blame the other person. It's very easy to blame the person closest to you, but then you can repeat those same patterns like in the next relationship or in like the next business partnership or whatever it might be. But it's going to just repeat and repeat and repeat until you actually, you know, take ownership of that situation. And I just find that like, yeah, like the women that I work with, even though we work on business things, like a lot of it comes back to that personal development and mindset. And I think, you know, when you're in a relationship, you spend most of your time with that person. And so if you're kind of like going into these patterns within your relationship that are keeping you playing small and keeping you stuck, you're reinforcing that same pattern like again and again and again and again and again.

Yes.

But it can also be very hard to shift because of that like repeated engagement. It's like you almost start to predict like what your partner is going to say or think or do, you know. So you're not like seeing them— if they're going on this personal development journey and they're trying to be a better person and be the next level of themselves, but you've got your significant other that's still seeing you as that like past version and reinforcing that same narrative and beliefs, like that can be hard to shift as well.

Yeah, it's big. Yeah, especially if you've been in— like us, we were just saying off, off air that we've been together with our partner since '21. So there's so many different versions of us throughout that period of time that sometimes, you know, you're going through version 4 and they're at version 2, and all of a sudden you're starting to realize that there's an ingrained pattern that they're used to showing up around you in a certain way, but you're like, hey, I'm no with this person anymore. Uh, you know, how do you then stay true to who you are now even though they're trying to maybe bring you back to who you were unconsciously? They're not probably doing it intentionally. I found that with my partner Amanda. Sometimes we would just— this year we would be away for 1, 2 months on our own individual journeys, kind of hanging out with different people, going through our own periods of growth. Uh, and then we'll come back together and realize, oh wow, like sometimes there's old patterns coming up in our relationship even though we had this massive growth period away from each other, it was that example of like sometimes you show up around certain people based on the patterning. And the moment we became aware of that, the moment we just started to speak into it, be like, hey, like, let's support each other in stepping into this new version of ourselves around each other because we're doing it outside of the relationship. Why can't we just hold each other accountable to this new way of how we, you know, be there for each other, how we want our relationship to go and actually having that vision for what it looks like in my opinion, is, is the most important part. Because if you don't have that vision of like, where are we going in our relationship— which is why I encourage men to, to get clear on that— becomes very hard to steer the ship. You just default back to the familiar and the old, right?

Yeah. And it's like, people know that they need a business plan, they know that they need to get a business coach or a life, you know, a life coach and map out all these goals. But so often we don't look at the relationship. And I know for me, like, I've been also with my husband for like 15 years, so it's always felt like the just the safe thing. It's like, you know, it always just felt like that was fine, that took care of itself, you know. But then I was always striving for things like in my business, and like I did so much work over the years on like personal development. I've always had business coaches, I've always worked on my business, worked on myself. And I realized this year, like, why am I giving that same kind of like love and attention to arguably the most important thing in my life, which is like my relationship? Because it's not just us anymore, it's also he's the father of my children. And I personally find that if your relationship isn't right, then it affects every other area of your business. So I think— but I think a lot of people do just fall into that, like, patterning of just like they don't even think to work on it because it's not talked about as much and it's just habitual. How do you like— so how do you like— how do you— what's the first step there? Is it just that awareness?

I don't think— I'll speak on behalf of men because I can I can obviously relate more to the male experience. I don't think most men realize how much becomes available in their life when their relationship is thriving. And I actually think if they did realize, they would put way more focus and attention in making sure their relationship is where they want it to be. And what I mean by that is making sure that their partner is feeling loved, feeling supported, feeling cared for, feeling available to be her most available, expressed, fullest, playful self around them. Because what she can then pour back into him, what that then unlocks in him is like he becomes fucking unstoppable. In business, in life, in friendships, in his creative endeavors, around as a father, I'm sure when a man has that level of support from his woman, he, he gets so much more inspiration. You know, the relationship gives him energy rather than taking energy from him. Whereas most men are so busy trying to pour energy into their business that they don't nurture the relationship in that way. So then all of a sudden the partner's reflecting that back to them and it's like draining the energy from them. They're like, oh, she's always on my case, she's always complaining, she's always nagging about this. Well, yeah, because you're not watering that plant. You're not like giving her the juice that she needs to thrive. And that comes at a cost. So how do you shift that? Well, you just recognize like, hey, maybe this isn't, you know, this relationship isn't thriving in the way that it should be. What needs to change here.

And you can do something about it as well, you know. It's not just like— there are things to do. I think, I guess, there's like some stigma still attached to like working on your relationship or getting couples therapy or anything like that, because it's like sometimes people see that as like the end of a relationship. So I think that stigma doesn't help.

Yeah.

Um, but also I feel like— and I'll speak for myself too— but I feel like, I mean, for me it's like I didn't even know that, like, you know, so this year we've done quite a bit of work on our relationship, but I didn't even really know that things were— we were getting so kind of like distant in a way until it was like very like almost like at that painful stage. And it's like I also didn't have awareness of what my needs were as well because obviously life happens. You've got business, you've got kids, all that. You're just putting everything else to the forefront. So, you know, to, to some men's credit as well, it's like how are they meant to also know if the woman herself doesn't even know and doesn't even talk about it too. So I definitely do think, you know, there's, there's both sides need to come to the party.

Yes, definitely. And it's a— I was before I even came here, I put out a post the other day where I was talking about it. No, it was actually a stitch or a green screen video where I played this other video at the start and then I gave my commentary on that video. And it was this video of this woman talking about how, you know, females don't realize how significant their tone, the impact of their tone, the nagging, the complaining is around their man and how that sometimes that can actually like push him further away when she really wants closeness. The way she communicates to him is usually pushing him away. And you know, as you'd expect, the comments kind of fucking blown up in two different pathways. You've got the ladies who are saying like, how can I expect to communicate in good terms when a man's not like providing the safety for me? And then you've got the men resonating with this way. And I was reading that objectively trying to just look at, okay, what are people saying? What's the general discussion around this? And I can see straight away in someone's comment like where they, the position they're coming from through their beliefs and the beliefs that filter essentially what they see in their reality, which is like, how can I show up for a man when I have to pander to his fragile ego and men need to do this, this, and this. And the whole point of that video was to just bring awareness to the fact that, hey, like take some responsibility. For, like, again, you can't force change upon someone else, but you can start to shift how you think and how you see yourself, how you think and see the opposite sex, and therefore how you maybe operate and change the energy in which you're bringing to the relationship. What I find, that alone is sometimes the, the space or the opening that can allow some new behavior and allow something new. And if it's— and this goes both ways for the men and for the women. So if you're looking to see a change in your partner's behavior, maybe step into the version of you who already has that change. You're already seeing it, you're already receiving it, and you're almost like detached in a way. You don't need them to change, but it'd be great if they did. But you're embodying a frequency where they can show up as someone new. And so often there's this victim mentality in relationships. They need to do this first, they need to do that. Like, they never leave me, I never create emotional safety. Well, if you're in that belief, then you're gonna keep seeing that reality. So it's like, I really want people to break out of that and be like, let me take ownership for it. Who would I need to be to receive that level of love and freedom and support and care and affection in my relationship? Who would I need to be? Because the reason you don't have it right now is because you subconsciously think this is what you deserve. Simple as that. So it's like, yeah, I think that's, that's the starting point. It's like, what part of me is, is create— is operating in this relationship right now? Because this is again a reflection of what I'm seeing through the people that I love.

Yeah. And I think not making things transactional as well, you know. So it's like instead of coming up coming to things with like this tit-for-tat mentality of like, oh, I did this, so I expect that in return. I think also like letting that go, and if you're wanting to do something to support, like doing it because you want to as well. I think that's a big mindset shift, and like assuming the best of the other person as well, you know, and just like knowing that like we can't change anyone else's behavior, so you can only just do what you can do and come to the table fully like with the mindset that that person— that and the assumption that they're also doing it. But then after a while, if that doesn't start to shift, then it can be a conversation that you have that like, you know, because I like— I'm just like, this year has been so funny in a way, just like working through all this stuff. And like a lot of stuff also, like I would try— okay, I'll give you a funny example. So I would try that approach first and I was like, okay, I need to change, you know. So like I remember like, um, I would just feel like at home and like, so I wanted more affection, like more physical touch, more cuddles, all that. And so I'd be at home and like Neil would be sitting down at the table or whatever, and I'd come over and like sit in his lap and give him a cuddle or whatever. And he'd be like, what's wrong? He'd be like, is everything okay? And like, you would— I wouldn't get what I wanted essentially. But so I actually had to like talk to him, be like, actually say like, I would love to have like more physical touch. Or maybe I got upset once that like we didn't. We had that big conversation afterwards. And he's like, well, why don't you just do it first and you lead the way? And I was like, I've been trying to, like, I— and then, and he— and then I explained. Then he was like, oh, that's what you were doing. He was like, I genuinely just thought like something had happened that day or whatever. But because we had just fallen into that pattern of like children, like the kids coming first and everything else coming first, that we hadn't been like as close in that way, I guess. And then the times that I was wanting a cuddle or whatever probably was because I had a shit day or something happened and there was something wrong. So it's also like, I guess, especially coming from like, you know, a long relationship where you do have these patterns that have been built in. My experience has been that like, yes, change, but you need to also be able to communicate openly and actually talk about it too, because sometimes they don't like— well, in our instance anyway, it wasn't like an obvious thing and it wasn't just as easy as like that. I had to actually spell out like what I needed.

Yeah, I love that you said that because yeah, definitely it will be that. And I love the way that you communicated it too. Like, I would love it if we could have more of this. I'd love it if we have more affection. It wasn't, you never care about me anymore, we never have time together, you know, you never show me love.

I mean, I've definitely been guilty of that too.

Yeah, I think everyone has. I think the point is that when you kind of step back and go, okay, like there's, there's this need or preference that I have in the relationship that's not going— being met right now. How can I now approach this conversation and make that request? Because that's, that's the essence of it. If we're on the same team, sometimes your teammate is— he's got his head in somewhere else. He's like, he's buried into his work or his business. He can't see. Maybe he's not aware.

Yeah.

And that's the point, is like, we're trying to help each other become more aware. And I love the quote of that your relationship is not there to make you happy or more fulfilled, it's there to make you aware of all the areas where you're not bringing love to yourself. Because as you start to bring more love to yourself, then you've got more love to give to other people. And your significant other is the one that's shining the light on these things that you can't see. The same thing happened with me with Amanda. I remember a couple of years ago, I was like just head in the business, just always work on the business. She was giving me these reflections too. So, hey, you know, we never like connect anymore. We never like, I want to connect with you more. I want more affection from you. That same thing had occurred. And I was like, oh shit, I didn't even, damn, I didn't realize you were feeling that. I didn't even, like, it didn't even occur to me. And a lot of the times her reflections were like the wake-up calls that I needed in that moment to kind of propel me along a path to start to look at, all right, what, how did I get to this point where I just disregarded the relationship? This, this person I care about so much, how did I even get here where now I'm not even giving her what she needs? So ultimately, that's what we would hope when a man receives a reflection or a wake-up call or request from his partner, he steps back and goes, damn, I don't want my partner to feel like that way. That's not it. Let me make an adjustment. Let me change how I'm showing up. Because there's so many men where I've started coaching them at the start of the coaching container and they've gone to me, hey, my wife has just said that the love's not there anymore. Like, I don't think that you're my man. And sometimes it takes that point for the man to wake up and be like, holy shit, I need to make a change now. And he's just, the guy's like, tell me what I need to do and I'm gonna do it. And they're the guys that create the biggest transformation. But the sad part is sometimes it's too late. They're gone. And again, that would be the feedback for the women is like, catch this stuff early. If you're feeling neglected or you're not feeling loved or there's something missing and you're just feeling yourself close and pull away, communicate that ASAP like you did. Because if you don't, which a lot of people don't, over time, the love fades and fades and fades until it gets to a point where it's gone. And I've seen that for women, when it's gone, it's gone. Yeah, it just doesn't come back.

Yeah, well, I'm, I'm really glad it did come up this year. And like, I definitely haven't been perfect at doing it by any stretch of the imagination. Like, you know, there's been times where I've said it like in a really bad way, but then I have to ask myself like, okay, like I'm being a stroppy little child. Like, what, what, like, it is my inner child. Like, what do they need? And like, okay, he doesn't love me anymore. Like, what? Like, being drastic, like, oh, he's not as connected. It's like, no, but what? Like, that's not true. But why do I think that? And also, if I want more love, like, if I'm like, I want more love, at the end of the day, that's usually what's at the core of it. What does that actually mean? Because people, like, receive love and give love differently as well. There's, like, different love languages and all that sort of stuff. So it's like, what specifically makes you feel loved? Like, that was a really big thing for me to reflect on. It's like, 'Cause, you know, like he would do lots of things for me that like, you know, that were like helpful. And if I was like an acts of service person, like I'd be so loved, you know? But that's just like, I really appreciated that, but it made me feel more like that room, like not roommates, but like, you know, that more like we're teammates, but it's like not that like intimacy. And I had to really get clear and like, okay, what would make me feel actually loved? And I actually like had to be like, okay, I need you to cuddle me more. I need like, I need this, I need that. In a way it's like the most least romantic thing ever, But it does, like, it's, it's so important to like know what each other's love languages are and how the other person feels that love, because then you can, you'll want to do it and you kind of want to connect more on that level. But if you don't even know what makes you feel loved, how the hell is like the other person meant to know?

So good. Yeah, well, that's, that's so great because, because general rule of thumb for the men listening, I don't know how many men, I don't know, probably, I don't know, it doesn't matter. Ladies, passes.

My husband listens.

Yeah, yeah, great. It usually I remember I read this in a great book. I think it was by G.S. Youngblood, a book about the masculine in relationships. He said in the book that if whenever your wife is giving you a hard time, she's on your case about something and she seems to be nagging for whatever reason, it's usually because she's not feeling loved and led in some sort of way. So just come back to that always. If your wife's giving you a hard time, how are you not loving and leading her? Or where do you need to love and lead her? And like you said, then another layer deeper is like how specifically Does she need to receive your love? And if she doesn't know the answer to that, then maybe you can help her or start narrow down into the physical touch, do some more acts of service, help her out around the house, take some pressure off her, off her plate. Generally, I think most women respond more to that oxytocin chemical bonding hormone of physical touch. Like, I don't know too many women who don't crave that more. In their life. And what I found is men, like, naturally, I'm— I love to give that kind of love too. I love to be— I love physical touch too. I don't know if all men are like that, but for me personally, I like that. But when I'm so stressed, and if I'm overworked or I'm depleted emotionally, I go into conservation mode, which is to want to pull away, pull away. I want space. I want to take space. Most men are like that too. We need space. Let me just, like, be on my own. Typical avoidant behavior, but most men kind of like, they process differently. Whereas women want that connection to process, men just want to pull away. So then it becomes down to the man's role to be like, okay, how can I make sure that I'm not getting to this point where I'm so tapped out energetically that I don't have that availability to give my lady the love that she needs in those moments? That's down to him creating the structure, the boundaries in his life around his work, his commitments, so he's not burning the candle at both ends. You know what I mean? Like that's on him, that's that masculine quality in him to be like, you know what, I needed to carve out this time for me so I can be there for her in that way.

[Speaker] Yeah, yeah, totally. And I think a lot of, well, I mean, our experience has been that like, you know, in a way it's like, you know, say if Neil's thrown himself into work, that is out of love for the family and he wants to like do everything, but like it's making the assumption that everything is gonna stay the same. And it's like, unless you continue to invest in the relationship, it's not just, you can't just work for 5 years and then be like, okay, now we're gonna So like that has to come into play as well. But I know what you're saying about like that avoidant, you know, because obviously men typically go into the more avoidant thing and then women typically go into anxious. Obviously it can be different, but I found that like we were triggering the shit out of each other when like whenever we'd go into like limiting beliefs or go into like a conflict, like our triggers would like be like so like my friend Lorraine Murphy calls it like a fucked game of ping pong where it's just like you're just continuing to trigger the shit out of each other. And I think it's so important to like understand those triggers and to understand the way that you kind of are more inclined. It was really helpful for me to like learn about like attachment styles as well, because for me personally, I would go into more like— I think we're both pretty like normal, as in like we're both pretty balanced. But then if we are in an argument or whatever, we'd go into like— I'd go more into anxious and he'd probably go more into avoidant. But what really helped me as well was like reading a book on this, and it talked about how like anxious attachment like even though they have more needs, if you're anxious, anxious attached at times, you then do have more needs. You need to be validated a bit more, you need more TLC, and that is perfectly fine, and you are, you are entitled to that, and that is a right to have that. That really shifted something for me because I think for a while I would just internalize stuff and be like, well, that's not his problem, do you know what I mean? It's like, well, that's on me because I'm too much, or I'm too needy, or this isn't like a like a rational, justifiable request. And just having that almost like permission slip really helped me to be like, no, like, this is a valid need. Like, I do sometimes need a bit more like reassurance, like cuddles, whatever it might be. And just to even just know that and then be able to have that conversation and just be like, look, sometimes I do need just these things, you know. And that, that was like him as his partner is also should be like able to support me with that versus me just being like, well, this is on me, I have to figure that out by myself. That was like really huge for me because I kind of like, I guess, didn't maybe have that self-worth to be like, I'm worthy of like having that support, therefore not communicating it too, you know. So that was like a really big one. I don't know if that's ever come up.

Yeah, but again, that's a beautiful example of you being in your feminine. To be like, hey, I need support. Like I need some guidance, I need some love. And the masculine is like, no, this is me. I need to figure it out on my own. I need to take charge of this thing myself. Which again, so many women are in that place. They don't know how to receive, see it all the time. And that's a really hard thing to do. It's a courageous thing to do to be like, you know what? I'm gonna ask my partner for help here. This is something I'm aware of and I don't wanna do it on my own. Because what we realize, I'm sure what you realize, is Neil loves to be of service. Like, he loves to be able to be of service to you at your time of need. Most, if not all, men love that because it's giving them an opportunity to be like, oh, I can step into this mask and I can be the one to take care of it.

Men—

I can't remember who told me this, one of my, uh, one of the ladies I brought into one of my men's groups— she was like, men love to be the hero. Like the male archetype is like, we want to be the hero. We want to be the one to step in and be like, save the day. So when your partner comes to you saying, hey sweetheart, I need help, I need help, like, can you help? We're like, okay, let's go. I'm up. It's my time. Let's go. And when a woman doesn't ask for that, we're depriving— you're depriving the man of that core, that core desire to want to be the fucking the man.

Yeah.

To take over, to take charge.

Yeah.

So Yeah, something to reflect on for the ladies, like being in that control. I gotta do it all myself. I gotta run the business. I'm the one that like, like, that's, that's masculine. That's, it's okay to be in that, that, that, those energies a little bit, but as a general rule, a female needs 10 times more feminine qualities in her life and a male needs 10 times more masculine qualities to be in your own natural essence. Yeah, right. And it varies from person to person, of course, but What we end up seeing is like so many women so heavily in their masculine, we saw more than the men, and then there's this like tough exterior shell that creates contraction in the body that doesn't allow support in. It doesn't allow men to even come in. So then a woman in a relationship during that time just ends up being fully in her masculine. Sex dries up, the polarity disappears. The women who are single during that time, they're like, where's all the men? Where's all the good men? Well, you're not even energetically open to receive it right now. Your body cannot receive the masculine energy because you're so contracted and compartmentalized and controlled. Again, it's not her fault, it's just usually coming through the, the response from all the conditioning and the trauma that was done onto her from men. But that's the awareness of these patterns, like that example you just gave, that is so critical for us to come back into this like natural healthy balance of men being his natural essence of masculinity, of women being in her natural essence of femininity, and how that creates a you know, like a spiral of energy in a more esoteric manner.

Yeah, because it can just— that behavior starts to reinforce itself because then it's like the woman is more in her masculine and controlling, but then the man is like then scared to do something in case it's not the right way that the woman wants it done or whatever. And then it just perpetuates like the cycle. And then like, you know, the man, the man can become more dependent on the woman in a way just to organize everything. Like, that's kind of what happened for us because I just naturally did But then it's like, then they kind of don't like, you know, just kind of, I guess it just, I think it skews that masculine and feminine like polarity. And it's like just been so amazing to just like get that back into balance and just to be able to soften and like let him lead. But it's also letting him lead. You have to let like—

Yeah, well, I'm curious for you, like where, because powerhouses like you, my partner, man, is the same. She loves to be in the back, loves to organize and plan and be in control, which initially early on I used to think, oh cool, like I'll let her do that.

I'll take the backseat.

Yeah, she loves it. But little did I know that even though she was good at it, it was still creating this mental load on her that felt really good when she was given permission to let go of all of that. Sometimes it would require me like actually stepping into like, no, I'm fucking planning this. Like you step back, you relax, you're not doing anything. And her mind will like freak out and be like, oh, but I don't want to look at planning. I'm doing it, it's sorted. And watching on the other side of that how good that felt for her, I was like, oh, it's like a reminder for me, okay, sometimes I actually need to step in and take charge even when she wants to take charge. But then I wonder the nuance for you because I'm sure there's things that you really enjoy doing. Maybe that is planning the restaurant to go to, or maybe that is planning the trip and having the holiday set up in a certain way. Where is that nuance for you when it comes to organizing, being your masculine, planning things that you actually enjoy, that actually brings you nourishment?

Yeah.

And then where are the things where you're like, you know what, I'd really prefer my partner to take care of all that?

Yeah, well, such an interesting question. I think it all comes back to like awareness, because it's like this perpetuating cycle where like if you have been the one to take control for so long and then you like try and get your partner to do it and they don't do it because they're so used to you doing it, and then you start thinking like, you know, they kind of let you down, or it's like, oh, well, they don't do it, or it just reinforces that you're the one that has to do it all. So I think having that awareness has to be so critical where you really communicate, like have that conversation where it's like, I feel like we've gotten into this pattern and got into this like patterning that I do all of these things. And I know like for Neil, for example, he was like, I just kind of let you do it 'cause you've got your way of doing things and I know you prefer to do it. So for me, I had to then be like, work on letting him do things his way as well. So like if he felt like we had just like, we had just had this big conversation and then I just remember it, like he was like making lunch and he was poaching chicken. Anyway, he's like putting the chicken in the pan. I was like, oh, like, why are you doing it like that? Like, it's way nicer. And then I was like, I mean, that looks amazing. I can't wait for lunch. And I had to just like catch myself in the moment because it's just a habit. And so like, actually just even the small things, just catching yourself and like letting the other person like lead and not like having to figure everything out. I think that's something that you just have to do. But then I think it can be just like a balance. You can have conversations about it, and like, say it's a trip, you can just have a conversation about it and be like, this is what I'd love to do, but then let them organize it. There was this study that Booking.com did, and it was like women— like, it was like 80% of women— don't quote me on the exact percentage— it was like 80% of women find it more sexually attractive when a man books a holiday than like foreplay. Wow. And so I was like WhatsApping this study to my husband. I was like, book a weekend away. And he did. He booked a week— I don't know where we're going. He booked a whole weekend away that we're doing in January. And so that's a good one. I'll link it in the show notes. Send that to your partner.

Yeah.

Um, but, you know, so I think it still does require that, like, communication. You can't just suddenly decide, okay, I'm gonna let him do things, because then you're kind of setting him up for failure. Because for so many years you've just done everything, and now you're like, over to you. But he has no idea you're doing this. He has no idea that you're kind of, like, testing him, probably, in a way. Like, at least tell him there's a test happening. Like, you know what I mean? Just like, like, this is what we're doing now. And just let, like, actually have conversation and be really aware and present and like, I don't know, just have that conversation around it. You can't just like decide and then like expect them to know that that's now like your whole dynamic is changing overnight.

Yeah, totally. That's so true. Like we said before, even could just be as simple as, hey, I'd love it if you could plan a date for us this weekend.

Yeah.

Like it's almost using a basketball analogy. It's like an alley-oop. Like give, give him, give him a few alley-oops to start off with. Where you're just tossing the ball up and all he has to do is slam dunk it, which is, hey, I would love it if you could plan a trip for us, and give him that opportunity to step into that role. Be like, all right, cool, I'll do it, let's go. Yeah, you know, and maybe that's the, the, the nudge that he needs sometimes to maybe step more into— yeah, to doing more of it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you— I'm curious, like, within your relationship, has the, that masculine and feminine ever gotten out of balance?

Oh yeah, yeah, all the time.

Yeah, just, just always needed.

It's just natural. Yeah, I feel like Again, if you're playing a big game in life, then I feel like it's normal and okay for that to happen because you're exploring the edges. And I think for people who run businesses as well, it can easily happen. 'Cause Amanda was in the business with me for quite a while. Like she was helping me with it for my marketing. We were literally doing business together. So you're living together, doing business together, traveling together. So there's no wonder that some of the lines got blurred between our, you know, that natural polarity that creates the spark and attraction. And usually we just use our level of attraction towards each other each other as the reference point to where we're at in terms of our natural roles.

Wow, because that, like, already that's so brave and open and vulnerable to even think about that, you know? Like, that— like, do you have a conversation like, I'm sitting at like a 7 this week? Like, how do you— how do you explore levels of attraction without the other person getting like offended?

Yeah, I think we just intuitively know, and I know she intuitively knows, like, when we haven't had sex for a while I'm like, okay, yeah, I know, I know she wants more intimacy right now, but here I am going like, I'm not really feeling it. I'm not really feeling it. And sometimes it can be the other way around. Sometimes it can be the man wanting to have sex all the time, but the woman's not really feeling it. In my case, in my scenario, sometimes like I will just be like, sometimes my body's not, not feeling the charge. It's not there. It's not. And then I go, okay, what, what's causing that? Why is that? Where have I like fallen short? Where have I maybe fallen into my feminine? She's in her masculine. What do I need to come back to that strong masculine pole to just be like, you know, fuck yeah, let's go, I'm back, let's get it. Because it's, again, you could call it masculine, you call it testosterone, you know, you could call it that like natural, the energy that a man has. Sometimes it could just be a simple thing of like going to a jiu-jitsu class that I find will just wake my testosterone back up and then I'm back again. So it's like men finding the outlets where they can nurture that like masculine qualities so his testosterone comes back. And then same thing for the ladies, finding outlets where the estrogen comes back and that hormonal balance is what creates attraction.

[Speaker] Well, it's so important because it's like, you know, like sexual energy is essentially confidence as well, you know? And it's like if you are feeling flat in your relationship, you haven't had sex in ages, like there's not much like charge there, it does like flow into everything. You don't like feel as good about yourself, like within business you're not as like confident to, be putting yourself out there and stuff if you're not feeling that at home, you know. So it's actually so important to kind of get back into that and, and not let that just like fade away. And especially when, when kids come into the picture, it's just like, you know, you've got all these different priorities and things like that, and it's just easy to like let everything go. But, um, I had a friend that lived— well, she's still a friend, but she just has moved away. But she lived near us in the Sunshine Coast for a while, and I'm so grateful that I met her because she was like next level with her relationship. They went on 3 date nights a week and they had 2 kids, and like she just, that was the most important thing kind of in her life. And she really thought it was really weird how Australians, well, she in particular Australians, like socialize separately once you have kids. And so like, you know, 'cause you just, instead of getting a babysitter, they would just like go separately. Like you've got this weekend to go out with your girlfriends and then out with the guys. She's like, it's so weird. Like why would you not want to like, you know? And I was like, yeah, that is actually really weird, but people don't really look at it like that. And I'm so glad I had her as like a teacher in that way. That made me really cognizant of like not letting that happen and making sure to like actually spend time creating memories together as a couple. And it's like a babysitter is cheaper than a divorce for sure.

Yeah, because that's what brought you together in the first place is the memories, you, you know, the moments you created where it's like fun and spontaneous and your adventures or whatever. At least that's what it was in my relationship. So it's like the moment we realized that that's not happening, there's, there's a bit of a like warning signal that will come on. So I think it's important. Yeah, like you said, kids or no kids. Yeah, it's so important to protect that time.

Yeah.

And again, I'm looking forward to that challenge when it comes up, when I have kids in the picture.

Yeah, definitely.

What that does.

Definitely. And so you guys have been together for like almost 10 years now. So what do you do to proactively like keep that spark alive in the relationship?

Uh, we're super independent people, and I think people— a lot of people get like a little bit shocked when they realize how much trust we have in each other. Yeah, that's something that I, I see some other relationships not having, that, that foundation of I trust you so much that if, hey, you want to go to Lisbon and, and go in that direction right now and you're not feeling the call to come to Austin with me, then cool. Like, I want to respect your decision. I want you to have your own experience and expand in the direction that life is pulling you, even if that means not being with me physically right now for this chapter. And that's scary for a lot of people because a lot of people are like, oh, but I need to be around my person all the time. Like, we need to be together. Like, without them, they can't even imagine the idea of not living together or being together, right? But whereas for us, we've found so much growth in our relationship through having time in our own different directions in our life— be it travel, be around, hang out with certain people. Even for me to go on experience, like go on a retreat or go do a plant medicine ceremony or go to ayahuasca somewhere— so many of these things I've done without her, which, you know, you could think, oh, it's a shame I don't get to experience that with her. But in, in another angle, it's like, that's, that's my personal journey that I needed to go on so that when I return to a relationship there's just a new lease, there's a new lease on life. There's a— I've gone on my own direction, had my own lessons, and now I get to bring that back to the relationship, and she gets to relate with a version of me that's more expanded and more evolved. And same thing for her. The hard part is like just honoring and trusting that.

Yeah. So do you have any kind of like daily practices or weekly practices or anything that like, you know, keeps you in that flow, or anything that tangibly you do?

For me personally or for like the relationship as well?

Maybe both.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I used to be so rigid and structured and routine with my practices. Like meditate every hour, like for an hour every day and get that in no matter what. Like it had to happen at this time.

In the middle of the podcast, the alarm goes off. Sorry guys.

No, I'm just a walking meditation. But no, no, I just, I had this like routine of like workout in the morning and then, you know, as you do when, again, it's a very masculine thing, overly masculine, like rigid. But now I've found that as I've kind of got more in tune with myself, that every season is like requiring something different of me, meaning every season there's a different practice or a different ritual that I'm being drawn to, that when I'm in tune with that, I find that, okay, I can— there's a bit more fluidity and flexibility with how I'm showing up. And what I think is the most important is that I'm just connecting with like, where is God or life trying to move me today? Like, what's needed in this moment for me? Like, what am I anchoring into? And what I'm trying to practice anchoring into more and more is like who I am, the truth of who I am, which from the small self that sometimes the part of me is like, oh, I'm not doing enough, I should be doing more, like, are people really listening to me? Like, am I even really capable of any of this? Like, this is the small self me that's like has these doubts, fears, and uncertainties and thinks he's unworthy. But the real me is, is the me that's connected to the source of all that is. Like, I've always had enough. I'm more than enough in this moment. I'm exactly where I need to be. Um, I'm always chosen. I'm always loved. And when I can anchor into that me, or that true self, then I can move through my day from that place of just like having a little bit more freedom and fun and play. And that's ultimately the thing that is so beneficial for my relationship. When I have a relationship with this source or truth of who I am, with I, you know, the real I am. When that relationship is foundational and primary, then allows for all of the relationships, including my romantic relationship, to thrive, because I'm not needing or needing to take anything because I'm already abundant. I, I'm the source of all that is, as are you, and as, as everyone else that's listening. So making that a foundation, however I do it, whether it's meditation, yoga, qigong breathwork, it doesn't really matter, but I'm connecting with that, that truth. And then throughout the day, remember who I am, even when I'm like wanting to complain and go back to the fucking victim and blah blah blah. No, I'm the source of all that is. Like, dude, relax. Like, it's all here right now. You're this moment. That's— and it can sound esoteric or it can sound a little bit like, you know, far-fetched, but I think ultimately that's the practice. It's a moment-to-moment practice, because if you can do it in this moment, you're going to be able to do it in the next moment. When you're, when you're with your partner, you're wanting to shut down and react or get defensive when they, when they say something at you. If you remember the truth of who you are, then you can show up from that place. You can show up for them from a place of generosity and love because you know it's, it's infinite.

And how did you find that connection to, to Source or God or universe, or whatever you want to call it? How did you find that connection?

I feel like from realizing that it's it's never left me. It's always been there, you know. I just kind of like forgot about it. And I think ultimately we all go through our own individual experiences that create a certain level of pain for that opening or that remembering to come back. And for me, it was probably during a time when I was like working at a corporate job as an accountant, not really enjoying my life, and questioning like, what the fuck am I doing? Like, is this what I want? Is this who I am, this accountant who does tax returns and works 9 to 5? And as I started to ask those deeper questions, the the answer starting to come through, usually through a process of contemplation, or just for me being in nature and just listening, sometimes putting down the noise and the distractions, and then realizing that like, oh okay, this isn't just a concept of who I am, this is a felt sense experience, a somatic experience of feeling safe in my body, feeling free in my body, feeling abundant in my body, feeling loved in my body without anyone needing to love me. I know that who I am is just— is love. And when you connect with that somatically and we all have our own way of connecting with it, it creates an energetic field around you that people are responding to. Like, I'm sure you've experienced that. People have experienced this. Like, when you don't need love from anyone else, you don't need anyone else's validation— your podcast Being Seen is such a great name— because when you feel fully safe in your body, to be able to feel seen and who you are authentically without the fear of judgment, then like you start to get everything you want. You're like— people get magnetized to that. And same thing in your relationship. People, people it becomes so much more effortless. Yeah, you know, I think that's the core of it. If it's feeling like hard work, it shouldn't be hard work. Like, that's an old fucking belief that I took on from my dad as well. Like, making money, it's gonna be hard work. Relationships are hard work. Like, no, they're not. It's fucking easy. I get to decide that it's easy. Yeah, why not?

Yeah. And it kind of comes full circle back to what you were saying at the start, which is just like, if, if men— and I would, I would also add, if women— knew how incredible it is to have a thriving relationship with themselves and with their partner how amazing that is and how much that has a ripple effect in your whole life, then everyone would be a lot more committed to doing it. Because I think that feeling of safety, like you're talking about, is essential to everything. Like, if you don't feel safe within yourself, if you don't feel safe within your relationship, it's going to be very hard for you to achieve whatever, like, external metrics of success that you want if you don't feel that, that safety just within that kind of close-knit group of like either just you and yourself or you and a partner, you know. And it's so funny talking about safety because like it can be such small things as well, you know. And I felt like I needed to work on my safety within my relationship, not in any way physical, obviously, but also just like not even, not even huge things that were going wrong, but it was just like little things that I'd assign meaning. Like, you know, if Neil forgot something or whatever, that I'd be like, oh, he doesn't care or something like that. And it's not even that I'd be thinking it logically. It would just be like a subconscious kind of feeling. And then you'd kind of contract But all these things, they're so small and minor that it almost felt like not an issue, not something to bring up, not something to work on because it was like such tiny things. But then I really realized like how important that feeling of safety is. And even though it might be minor, it's still in your nervous system, feels big. And then it's like if you work on that and you build up that feeling of safety, and I think that's with you knowing that like you are good within yourself, but also within your relationship, you're like, making like the best assumptions and communicating it to your partner that like, oh, you know what, I know it's— you don't think it's a big deal and it's not a big deal. But, you know, when we said we'd meet at this time and then you were like late or whatever, it makes me feel like I can't rely on you. Then they're more like— and that's probably not even the best way of phrasing it, but, you know, they're more cognizant of that as well.

Yeah.

And I think, you know, having that safety in yourself and in your relationship is huge.

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And you just hit on a really good point. Again, which if you really want to see change in your relationship or a change in behavior from your partner or your man, it starts with recognizing all the ways where their behavior is not making you feel safe, and then catching your body wanting to contract in that moment or in a future moment where you're going like, hey, I can't rely on you. Like, oh, when you do that, and you're noticing the body wanting to close, and you having the ability to open it again by coming back to the truth of who you are, which is You are unconditional love. You are a source of all that is. You are inherently safe in this moment. You always will be unless you're in some sort of physical danger. And coming back to that opening and going, okay, I'm back, I'm here, I'm calm, I'm relaxed, I'm abundant, I'm full, I'm whole. And then re-engage in a conversation with your partner where you then speak and operate from that place.

Yeah.

And explain, this is what happened, this is what I'm needing, I would love to see this from you next time. Yeah. Same thing in business. Like, you know, like if you really look at your bank account and it creates anxiety and stress and, and lack, and you start to try to operate through your business from that place, or you're just going to perpetuate more of that. Doesn't matter how much fucking money you make, you're still creating from a place of lack.

Yeah.

So it's like, step back again, remind yourself, money flows into my life easily and effortlessly. I'm a source of abundance. Like, I'm— it's infinite money, infinite abundance around here all the fucking time. Feel it in your nervous system, relax into it, then go back and create the piece of content or show up.

Well, I love that you said that because it's like physiologically, if you're in that like place of stress, the, the kind of strategic part of your mind shuts down and you're in your like monkey mind and you're just like looking for safety. And it's just like you— so you literally can't even think of a good idea at that point. So there's no point whatsoever when you're stressed trying to have a difficult, a difficult conversation or anything like that. Like you need to first somatically get back into that like healthy adult self, and then you can have a conversation. And like, have you found any ways within your relationship that you can do that better, that you can try and proactively have conversations at different times or not get like caught in the heat of a moment of like, you know, a disagreement or whatever it might be?

Yeah, for me, for me, it really is like giving myself permission to step back sometimes if I'm not, if I'm not able to do it, and that's okay. And also just be able to maybe communicate that to my partner, be like, look, I'm not I'm not in a position right now to have the conversation. I want to, but I'm not in a position to do it. Like, maybe my tolerance is super low, I'm feeling really reactive, and it's just not— like you said, there's no point in me trying to have this conversation if I'm in that survival mode. So have the, the wherewithal to be like, okay, cool, let me come back to, you know, what I need to come back, but then re-engage in a conversation where I really want to— I want to listen to her, to understand her perspective, less about me. Like, okay, cool, I have my own needs and preferences and requests, but let me understand you. I want to understand where you're coming from, what's causing you to feel this way, instead of getting out this me, me, me, me mentality. It's all about me. Like, she's not— he's not meeting my needs, she's not meeting my needs. Like, why don't you listen for a moment and like, yeah, see what's, what's going on behind their world? Yeah, it's causing them to feel that way. That's, that, that's— you could say that's an act of generosity. But how do you get to that place? Was you— again, you have to come back to the place where you know you have enough, you are more than enough in this moment. To actually connect with that truth is the most important.

Yeah, and like coming from a place of just non-reactivity, you know, like, 'cause that's the inner work, 'cause like whether it's your partner or anything else, it's like not reacting in the moment and actually being able to stay grounded and come at things, still deal with your issues or whatever, but you're coming at it from like a different place and from that abundant place. It's been a game changer for us even just like having like a designated time each day that we like go through this whole little check-in that we do. And like just having that place where we're just coming to it from a really grounded place to just like check in with each other.

Totally.

Has been a game changer.

Yeah, I guess there's obviously there's a relationship check. I give some of the clients that I work with these like the relationship check-in kind of framework to use when you are, I guess when you're new to this kind of thing, right? It helps to have a bit of guidance to be like, how do I wanna initiate this conversation with my partner? How do I wanna ask what's coming up for them right now? So there is like certain frameworks, but now at this stage in my relationship, we just intuitively know like, okay, we need to have a little check-in here. There's something coming up, or there's, there's a wall between us.

Yeah.

And I'm sure you pick up on that as well. If there's a wall between you and your partner, definitely address it immediately, you know. Why let it drag out?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. I was inspired by like Kady O Connell, because she has like this TEAM acronym that she does each day. So I kind of created our own one that we do, um, each evening. And it's just like, takes 10 minutes, but it's just like gets us on the same page and make sure like, you know, we've got our needs met, we're all good for the next day. Like, just, it's been really good just to have that, like, you know, you can bring up things then and it's not like in the heat of the moment and things like that. But yeah, all of this stuff, it's like, it's just about like that awareness, isn't it? And like having the conversations and actually doing some work on it, not just like letting things like happen, you know?

Yeah, the— I know that word gets said so much, it's like awareness, awareness. Like, you know, what does that— like, what does that even mean? Like, it can seem trite and overused, but It's more just, it's to be emphasized because the more you can see all of the ways that you're getting in your own way or closing down or going into reactivity or going into old patterns, the more you can see that in your life, the more you can start to catch it and recognize that, hey, maybe this isn't the version of me that's supporting the relationship or the business that I wanna have. And if it's not, what is? And I just define that. I start, and even when I'm working with someone, I start with that, like the old self. And the new self. Old self, new self.

Old self, new self. What were you saying about that again?

I was just saying that whenever I start working with someone, we start with an exercise of getting clear on their old self, which is the version of them that's got them to where they are now, via their relationship or their business and their health, which is your old self is made up of how you feel, think, and act, and your memories, your decisions, your self-image. It creates this identity, which is how you, you know, people which is this energetic field that we're referring to, which is your reality, right? So your old self is your current reality. It's what you see. And it's also synonymous with your frequency, which is your energy. So once you can see that, hey, these are the certain ways of feeling, thinking, and behaving that are showing up in my life right now that are maybe not congruent to the reality that I wanna have, now you've got expanded awareness. You can see more. You're like, oh, okay, so whenever my partner does that, I tend to like wanna defend myself and I wanna react. Huh, like, that's not who I want to be anymore. Then who do you want to be? So then you would design the new self, which is like, how— what's the new way of feeling, thinking, and acting in each of these core areas of your life? Your relationship, your business, your health, your finances. And now we start to develop a bit of a map so that the next time you're in that situation where you want to go back to the old reaction, you go, huh, which version of me is going to show up right now? Which self is going to operate? And the more you can ground into the new self, which once you have that awareness you've already programmed it, you've already pre-installed it in, you start to catch yourself quicker and quicker and quicker to showing up in that certain way. And what I found is like, that's it. Like that's the work, if you wanna call it that. Like that's the growth, that's where all the transformation lies is when you— Those moments you catch yourself. Those moments, yeah, when you wanna go back to the old self. And the old self is like an entity. It's like feeding off you. It's the familiar place where it's comfortable for you to be in this version. And the entity is going to cling to life for as much as it can. So when you feel the urge to want to go back, or when shit goes wrong in your life, your partner pisses you off, they're the moments where you get to celebrate and go, yes, another opportunity for me to practice grounding into this new self, which is my new reality, because this is who I am now. You embrace those shitty moments, or you embrace the challenges that come up, because that's where you're defining, or you're deciding, this is how life is right now. And there's only a matter of time between you stepping into that and life now giving you a new reflection— either more money, a better relationship, better health, whatever the thing is you want— once you anchor into that new self, it's only a matter of time before you see it.

And that's why your relationships are your biggest spiritual work and spiritual teacher, because you're trying to become this new self, but your partner sees you as your old self, and they're reaffirming that old self. And it's like, can you hold the new self vision powerfully enough to be able to not identify with that old self even though it's been projected onto you.

Yes.

And actually lean more into this new self, knowing that if I just stick to this for a few weeks, it'll become easier because that'll now be your new self. That'll be how your partner starts to see you and you're reinforcing it.

Yes. Which is why it's even more fucking important to make sure you have intentional time every single day to decide which version of me is showing up. Like, see it, feel into it, connect with it, be it on your own so that when you are going back into your world, you've already like— it's, it's in there rather than just kind of waking up and expecting yourself to like immediately step into that place, you know?

Yeah. And expecting your partner to just like overnight know you're that new person.

Yeah, yeah, correct, correct. It's fucking hard. That's hard. It's hard shit.

Yeah.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's hard. Like you said, the wiring is like so— because what I'm finding around my family, like, if I'm not creating that time to be with me every day to anchor into who I want to be, to overcome my environment, which is my parents, my brother, and how they show up and all the different things that like piss me off about how they behave in this unconsciousness, if I don't create a space where I can really be in the energy of like just the version of me that I know I need to be, yeah, I'll just default back, default back because the pull is so strong.

Yeah, definitely. And this is a funny moment right now because we're recording and the lights have gone out, but we're just going to continue through because I think this is actually like a representation of that happening where it's like we have something what we want to talk about. And the universe is like, no, we're stopping you. But it's like all of the challenges, like, you know, life throws you challenges and it's like just you just work through them and it's just like, like you have to just have that, that vision and connect to that vision and just like know that, you know, whoever's listening is still getting value from this. The lights have just gone out. Who cares? Who gives a fuck? At the end of the day, you know what I mean? And it's like same with that, like, vision of yourself. It's like, yes, it's hard. Yes, it's your partner is annoying you. Yes, all the different things. So fucking what? Everyone has the same challenges. Can you still, like, can you still work towards that and have that be more powerful than all the excuses and all the limiting beliefs?

Definitely, definitely.

I could talk to you all day about this. It's been so amazing. I'd love to just ask— I've got like 3 final questions and we've kind of touched on some of this, but for anyone listening, like, that wants to connect more deeply with their purpose, what would you say? Because obviously everything in relationships stems back to that, to like connection with self?

Yeah, definitely. I mean, again, if it's mainly ladies listening, I will do my best to contextualize my answer for their experience, even though I relate more with the male experience, because I, I know that a lot of men will go through a particular period in their life where they start to question this. Sometimes it's earlier, sometimes it's later, sometimes it's when they're in a relationship, sometimes when it's not. And I think it's so important to have a connection with that because that's also as a man who's leading the charge, his purpose is the thing that pulls him. His purpose is his mission. And I'm sure you can relate where a man is so much more attractive when he's on purpose. He's got a mission. Something's pulling him, whether it's his kids or some sort of larger vocation that he's here to— an impact he's here to have in the world. When something's like lighting him up and he's just like fucking getting at it every single day because he's just got something, a fire burning in him, that's so attractive. Like a woman woman wants to be around a man who's connected with that. If a man doesn't have that, it's his responsibility to find it. And I, I'm— my opinion, the way you find it is come back to— come back to your primary purpose, which is this moment. What's your relationship like with this moment? Where are you blocking, restricting, confining life and not allowing the flow of life to direct you? Because it's, it's always here. Like, you're being guided always, you're just not in tune with it. So refining your relationship with the present moment, which is all the work we've discussed, like learning to relax your body, learning to release some of the suppressed emotions you've been holding on to, learning to create the time in life to tune in and listen and to anchor into who you wanna be. And as you start to create that space, you get just nudges. You're just like, oh, huh, I wanna travel. Oh, huh, I wanna start that business. Oh, I've got this thing that I wanna share with the world. And it starts to come through. And I don't think you ever fully know what your purpose is or what it's meant to be. But all I feel like you do know is that this is what I'm meant to do right now. This is where I'm meant to go. And it could just be something really simple. Like, I'm meant to go to the beach like today. It's where I'm being called to go. So it's like the primary purpose is your relationship with the present moment. How deeply are you connected with right now? And then your secondary purpose is like then what you then do in the world, which has to come from this place of love first for yourself. Love, peace, calm, freedom, connection, security for yourself. Once you have that, then what you're here to do in the world gets birthed. It gets, it gets brought through you in some level. And you don't know the— you don't know what that looks— you're not meant to know what that looks like. That's, that's, that's God's plan. But your, your responsibility is to let go of the past so you can be a vessel for that. That's, that's my— and I feel that that can resonate for women too because it's the same thing. If you don't know what— if you don't know what you're here to do, then step back and reattune and realign to where life is moving you right now.

Yeah, work on yourself and work on the vessel to hold and having the capacity to hold. Yeah, the vision versus trying to force the vision to come through.

Yes, definitely.

I love that. And what can people do to have a better relationship with themselves, like their mental health? Is there anything that you recommend? Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I find that sometimes, at least for me, the mind, when I'm tired and exhausted and overworked and I haven't given myself permission to rest, my mind can like turn on me really quickly and like beat me up and say, I'm like, what the fuck? You know, what are you doing? The mind can become your own worst enemy when you're at your weakest. So the practice for me is like give myself more permission to rest, to, to be, to, to relax, to not have to be doing things all the time or always be like just grinding all the time or training really hard all the time so that I'm not getting to these places where I'm so exhausted and burnt out that I want to just like give up and just like go into that old place. I think, I think your body is again reflection of your mind. It's obvious people have probably heard that a lot. But again, like, I don't think we need to be like destroying our bodies all the time with overtraining at the gym. And it's like, there's so much, uh, like stress that's like unnecessary. And a lot of healthy habits that people do that are actually not realizing they're creating— it's creating stress. The body's like low-key stressed if you're like training at the gym 5, 6 times a week and you're training fucking every— you're running out 20Ks every day for a high rocks comp. I get it, but at the same time, like, your mind can be nourished in other ways aside from like being really masochistic in your training. At least that's what I found for me, was like, dude, just, just go do something really nourishing and relaxing and, and learn to just connect with the, the energy of nature a little bit more. And that was so much better for my mind rather than always like beating myself in the gym. Yeah, um, that's just been a part of my path, but I know a lot of people love, love like the the mental aspect of training hard at the gym, but my concern is at some point your body's gonna break down. You know, I would rather like nourish my body and have my body in a place of like where it's feeling balanced and calm rather than continuously stressed through physical training.

[Speaker] But also rest is like equally as important as the exertion. So it's like if you are wanting to train hardcore, great, do it 3 or 4 times and then have the rest days and that's actually more effective for you anyway.

Yeah, definitely. But it's so hard for a lot of people because that's how they distract from their trauma. That's how they distract from all the wounding and the shit that's back there. Oh yeah, just fucking go crank out a workout every single day and, you know, you release all the adrenaline and the— on the chemicals to keep you distracted from that. But when they stop, it's— that's when they're faced with a lot of these inner demons that you eventually can't outrun. That you can't outrun it.

So maybe a good question is like, can I learn to just sit with myself and be okay Definitely sitting with myself. And that can be learned. Like, I used to leave— like, I do yin— oh no, I do— sorry, I do yoga, and I used to leave before shavasana. It's a waste of time. And now I like— it's my favorite part. Like, I love that stuff. But, you know, I didn't even want to for 5 minutes just be sitting there, you know. And so it kind of like— it's a habit, and you can totally do that.

100%.

Yeah, um, I love that. And last question is, what can people do to get more visibility and be seen?

Hmm. Yeah. I mean, it's like the more comfortable you are in the dark, the more the light can shine on you. So the visibility will come back to how much you've looked at all those uncomfortable aspects of yourself, all the parts of you that you don't want people to know about. Heart, how, how comfortable you are expressing sometimes to people you love, like, what's on your heart. How, like, you know, with not withholding something that needs to be expressed. It starts in all those little moments, in my opinion, through saying what needs to be said. If something needs to be said, be having the courage to say it, or having the courage to let out the anger. If the anger, like, in a healthy way, that is, like, let it out in a healthy way so you're not holding on to all of this shadowy emotionality that's running in the background of the nervous system. So that when you do go to make a piece of content or you share something online, you have a different energy. Your frequency is like more purified. You're more like— people can feel that shit. Like, we're responding to this so much more now because there's so much AI content out there that we can feel.

Yeah.

When someone's— when someone's real and when they're not. We can feel when it's a human, when it's an AI.

Yeah, 100%. And I just want to like reiterate for anyone that's thinking that's like woo or esoteric, like, you're someone that has like, like 600,000 or more followers. Like, so you know what you're doing. Like, it's like, you know all the, you know all the content hacks and you know all how to make a Reel viral, but like, this is still what you're coming back to.

So definitely it's like, this is coming from someone that's really like, yeah, because I went through the approach where it started off just like making videos authentically and pulling out my camera and sharing what was on my heart, to going fully strategized and like trying to design these perfect Reels that can get millions of followers and it worked, or millions of views and it worked. But now I'm coming back to just the, like what needs to be said right now? What's fresh on my heart? What's an insight or piece of inspiration that I can allow to just come through me? Not let it be over-edited and just like put it out into the world and let myself be seen in that authenticity again. That's what people, I believe, are really responding with right now in this age of social media. It's like we're going back to unedited, unfiltered, unscripted, fucking real. Like who are you? What do you believe in? Like what are you experiencing that you can share with the world that can provide some lessons? That's what we want. That's what people want.

Yeah, I love that so much. Thank you so much again for this conversation. It was amazing. And yeah, I feel like I could have another 10 hours.

Yeah, we'll do another one.

We'll do another one. Yeah. Part 2 coming in New Zealand.

Yeah. Thanks, my friend. It's been an honor to be on.