My Private Sales Framework (Caught on Camera)
The video is a live, interactive sales training session led by Matt Ryder, featuring multiple participants who ask questions and role‑play scenarios. The core of the session revolves around Matt’s private sales framework, which emphasizes selling a process rather than an outcome, and walks through the full questioning sequence: connection/opening, situation, problem, solution rationale, gap‑building, consequence, commitment, and pitch. Participants discuss how to apply the framework to various industries (insurance, life, fitness, wholesale real‑estate, solar), how to transition from appointment‑setting to closing, and how to handle objections using either an optimistic or a challenging style. The conversation also covers practical tools such as 2‑truth questions, probing vs. clarifying, low‑hanging‑fruit vs. high‑leverage improvements, and the importance of taking action over over‑thinking. Role‑play excerpts illustrate common pitfalls (over‑wording, adding unnecessary “sizzle,” failing to focus on decision‑making process) and demonstrate how to streamline language, use decision‑making framing, and guide prospects toward commitment. Throughout, Matt stresses the value of practice, real‑world observation of top performers, and adapting the NEPQ (Neuro‑Emotional Persuasion Questioning) process to any product or service.
Chapters
Okay, that makes more sense. So it's in terms of the actual process, not the physique is the goal, is the end goal of solving the problem.
Okay. Yeah. So it's like, because they're coming to you because you're coming to them to sell them something.
Yeah, exactly.
And the solution has to be— the solution that you're selling has to be the solution to their problem.
Yeah.
Like, we can't— you can't sell the actual physique. That's the outcome of the solution, which is exactly the effect of that.
Okay.
All right, that's it.
That's what it was. Otherwise you'd be in this weird loop.
Yeah, but it wouldn't— it wouldn't— and it's hard to measure that. You can't really quantify their satisfaction with it, with their physique, because it's, it's kind of like arbitrary, right? So yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, especially at the moment. But like, the sales is like, you know, connection questions or opening questions, right? When I call them, like, what are you here for? Then from there, it's like, I want to achieve X usually, right? I want to lose weight, whatever it may be, get lean. Then from there, it's going to be like situation, which is like, what are— what— and situation is like, what is the thing that you're doing about—
Yeah.
The thing that you're trying to get, right? Like, what is your current situation? Then you've got problem, which is like, what are the problems associated with the way in which you're trying to get the thing?
So for instance, let's just say for instance, if he was trying to lose weight, would you be asking like, how much weight have you lost over the past 3 months?
Um, at some stage, but like not necessarily straight away. That's a good thing to get because it builds more. If they've, if they've, if they've gained weight, for example, then it builds more of an urgency gap. Or if they've lost barely any and they're trying again, that builds more of an urgency gap, but that's not really a problem awareness thing.
Would you say that's more of a consequence thing?
It's probably more in like solution rationale, ideal criteria, that area, because you're building your gap. Oh, okay.
That's quite interesting.
I didn't think about it that way before. Have you gone through that area of the, of the content?
Yeah, I've been watching that.
Yeah, because all that, that, that part is quite specifically laid out. Like the gap building phase after rationale.
Oh yeah, that, that, that, that, that gap.
And that is where— okay, yes, that is where you would specifically ask those questions.
Okay, interesting.
Yeah, yeah, I didn't, I didn't know, but until I just watched— well, yeah, that's, that's why you do training. I mean, you learn things and things are better, right? But yeah, I wouldn't— you don't want to go too in the weeds in any one stage because you've got plenty of, plenty of time to do that.
Okay.
Yeah.
Alrighty, who's up next? Let's go. Yo, Matt, I was, I was wondering, how much emotional work do you do during future pacing?
Is that like—
so it's just like a hardcore, uh, emotional thing, or because there's not much Sort of logic, unless maybe something that I maybe they got like children or something like that. Like how much time would you have more to spend with them? Like it's mainly like an emotionally based process, right?
No.
Did I say that in English? Not really, but I understand what you're saying.
Sorry.
So like. So every offer is different. Um, some, some businesses and some sales require far more emotional, uh, like left brain, right brain connection type stuff, and, and some don't. Some are far more logical, but you still go through solution awareness because solution awareness is like, what is the tangible, uh, outcome in which you're looking for? And then what is the benefit of the tangible? Now, the benefit of the tangible in like a B2C kind of environment, like fitness or, you know, biz op or whatever, can be quite emotional because it's like, well, I want to achieve this and that would make me feel this. If you're in more of a B2B environment, then you can be like, like, okay, and what happens? Like, what are the outcomes in which you're looking for personally? If we're able to help the company do that, because sometimes people want to get promotions, they want to whatever. Sometimes they want to ensure the security and safety of the departments, right, of the people inside the department, because they're going to be layoffs if they don't fix stuff. Sometimes it just puts them in a better position overall. Sometimes it allows them to grow, whatever it may be. But you're looking for the tangible and then either like the, like it's the emotional, but it's the It's the, like, it's the benefit, right, of, of like, of the tangible. And that can be emotional or not that emotional. Like, it doesn't have to be either or. And that's the same with consequence where like the consequence can be like very like, and what happens if you don't, you know?
Yeah.
Like what's in the box type stuff. Or it can be quite simple. Um, and then you, you might change the wording to like, what are the potential ramifications for yourself and the department if you guys don't end up fixing this. And it's like the way that you say that is pretty straightforward, pretty plain, but like you're getting a pretty significant answer because like the ramifications are not good. That does actually really clear it up.
I appreciate that.
No worries. I'm known for my ability to clear things up. Yeah, very, very clear. Alrighty, who's next?
Hey, Matt.
Yeah, if I can, I had a question on the portal. You mentioned like basically process, like derived problems, and then you also mentioned like, like outcome derived problems. Like what's the exact difference between the two? Because I didn't really understand that part. Yeah, sure. Just let me— I think I know what you're talking about. Just let me engage. Uh, a process-driven problem is like, uh, the way in which you're doing it, you can see the flaws immediately, right? So like the way that it's being done. So, um, for example, I use sales training. Like, is there anything you would change about, I guess, you know, the way that you're developing your sales skill set? Or Like the speed at which you're getting to your outcomes if you want, or like the outcomes that you're getting. So it's like the way that you're doing it would be like I'm trying to poke holes in the coaching that you're getting, right? Because that's the current process that you're using. So it's like, so what do you sell? Well, I do timeshare, which is kind of irrelevant. Okay, well, it's not because like if it's like the way in which they're vacationing now, do they like the process that they use to book everything and they do that, right? Or the outcome they're getting. So like, is it— So when you look at outcome and process, you're usually going to get answers around like Uh, you're trying to find ways to poke holes. And the reason why you usually do that in like a 2 truths question, right? So 2 truths is like, hey, it sounds like things are going fairly well. Is there anything you'd change about, right? So if you're doing vacation home, you're doing like timeshares, it's like, hey man, it sounds like when you go on holiday, it's going pretty well. Is there anything you'd change about, I guess, like the way that you have to go through to find a place that's good to go, right? Or, you know what I mean, the amount of money that you're spending, or, right? So like outcome-focused stuff. And an outcome that would usually center around leaning toward your outcome, towards your solution.
Okay.
Because this is a less desirable outcome. Like in sales training, because most people have done some sort of training, I used to always go, is there anything you would change about the way that you're developing your sales skill set or the outcomes that you're getting if you could? And it's like I just said outcomes because it's pretty simple and because the outcomes are they want to get better, get— like they want to make more money, etc., etc. So, and if it's the process, right, then they're going to be like, yes, I want more one-on-one because right now they're not getting any one-on-one.
Okay.
So it allows me to kind of split it up into like, what are you doing and what have you got?
Okay.
Yeah, that totally actually like clears it up. Yeah, it's difficult. It is sort of a weird one to explain, but it has to be.
Yeah.
Like, like say like it was like lead marketing and it's like, man, I hate the fact that like I have to go on like socials because I'm not very tech savvy or whatever. And then the other could be like, I'm just not making the amount of money with the turnover rate on my leads. And that's the result.
Yeah, that's perfect.
I totally understood. Thank you so much for clearing it up.
Good.
I'm glad. All righty, let's go. Who's next? If not, we'll just start doing role plays.
Yeah, I was going to say, I'm not sure if this is like a general question, but is it fair to say that like, It's more so like the process that's being sold rather than the outcome, swapping out their current process with a more idealized process.
I think that like, not always, but like generally, that's probably a stronger position to come from, right?
Okay.
Because like, you don't really want to promise outcomes. I don't think that's a good idea. It's not a good sales practice. And also, like, you just, you sort of can't because things can go wrong unless obviously, like, you're buying a car, right? In which case, like, buy a car, have outcome.
Yeah.
I mean, so like, that's why I said like, not always.
Right.
But in general, if you can get someone bought in on the process, Right? And that your process puts people in the best position possible to achieve the outcome, or your, like, your product is the key to them unlocking the correct process that gets the outcome, right?
Mm-hmm.
It's a, it's a, it's a more, it's a stronger sales position. It's arguably a more difficult sales position, but it, um, like, it's more optimal in that it will lead to more sales. The reason being is because If they're bought in on that component, then a lot of your objections become over— like, you have the ability to overcome them. Whereas if you don't get them bought in on that component, then like it's very hard to overcome objections because like essentially then you're just pitching product. And it's like there's no context to any of it. So it just becomes really sort of— it becomes like just a straight yes or no scenario.
Yeah, I think that's hyper—
Yeah.
No, I think it's very relevant to my industry, which is commercial insurance, where I have no control over what the final price is. But it's the process of how we would obtain that price, where we might be able to get them to work with us versus who they're currently working with of, hey, what do you like about your current process to get these quotes? Just trying to find like how I can connect it back to what I do.
Yes, sort of. But like, so like the, like you have to connect it back to what you're selling though. So it's like, what's, so instead of the process that you're using to get the quotes, it's the process that you're using to protect your assets.
Yeah, for sure. Well said.
Right. So, so, so it's like, 'cause the sort of, you know, the, the asset protection is like the main thing. And so it's like, hey, run me through. And the process that they're using encompasses many things, right? But you— and you have a better process which will get higher levels of surety that their assets are protected, right? So a little tweak there in what you're saying, but pretty, pretty close.
Okay.
Like, life insurance, like, you know, like life insurance is selling peace of mind.
Right.
Like, that's what you're selling. Yeah, same thing. Yeah, same, same thing. And so like, the process is not how do you go about looking for insurance? It's like, how do you sleep at night knowing that your family is protected? Like, that's, that's what it is. So the process and the outcome are relatively similar things, but it's like, what's the process usually to get the outcome? And when you ask an outcome question, you're usually going to get things on Like you're going to get specific things like time or like the things that they're not happy about. Like if I say like, it seems like things are going fairly well, what's the— like, I guess, shows that things are going pretty well. I guess like what's the main reason for— is there anything that you would change about, I guess, you know, the level of coverage that you have now or maybe like the— The way in which you have to maintain that coverage, right? Or something like, I would word it better than that, but it's sort of like there's a fuck around in that process of having to go through and get it and make sure that it's all correct. But then also it's like that, that coverage is in place. And the reason why you ask that question like that is because you're giving them the choice of which one they would like to focus on.
Mm-hmm.
Two-truth questions are asked when, like, you don't, you're not getting a problem. And it's not super clear, right? So it's a mechanism that you can use in order to bring what they value to light. Because if I say, hey, it sounds like things have gone pretty well. Is there anything you would change about, I guess, the way in which you're developing your sales skill set or maybe the outcomes that you're getting if you could? And you're like, and you go, yes, I just really want it to happen faster, right? Then like, now I know something about you. Now I know that the speed thing is the important thing. And so I can link it back to, well, what are you doing to make it speed up? Why isn't it going fast enough? What does fast mean to you? What have you achieved over the last little bit? And what are you looking to achieve moving forward?
Yeah, because in this industry, you get a lot of superficial answers where I just want the lowest price. Okay, cool. Like, besides like the lowest price, like, are you like 100% happy with like the how they're currently renewing you or like what sort of coverage you're getting? Or is price just the most important? To ask like a 2-truth question off of their surface-level answer.
Yeah.
Yes, yes. Like, so there's probing and clarifying as well. So probing is like, I understand what you mean and I would like to know more. And clarifying is Sorry, probing is I don't know. So yeah, probing is I understand what you mean and I want to know more. Clarifying is I do not understand what you mean. Can you please explain?
Right.
So when someone says like the cheapest, you'd be like, the cheapest? Like, yeah, I just want the cheapest. So be like, you don't care even if it's like there's tons of exclusions and the chances of them paying out is like almost zero because I can find you that one.
Mm-hmm.
Then it's like, well, no, I don't want that one. It's like, okay, so you don't want the cheapest. It's like, well, no. Okay, so what do you want?
Right?
So even like little probes like that can like sort of dismantle some of those stupid things because nobody wants the cheapest insurance, right? Because I'm sure you can find something that is horrendous.
Yeah.
Oh, that's a very— I like going about it that way. That is very well put.
Yeah.
All righty, sweet. Let's get into our next question. Just talk and you'll be fine. If you start doing role plays, Victor, are you talking? Are you in? Yes, sir. Okay, there we go.
No, no, no. I'm talking now. I actually had a question. I joined yesterday. I started to go for the materials, but I'm still appointment setting, and I've been appointment setting for the past seven months on this B2C offer. I was just kind of wondering from your perspective what's How do you make the? How do I make myself close more? Like, how do I get into that? How do I start self-setting? Like, I like I want to start closing for myself, and I want to close my own appointments because I feel like I'm sorry.
Are you allowed to?
Yeah, they they don't they don't care. Like, I've closed four thousand dollar deals before. Is just as long as I make money there.
Then why aren't you?
Because it's like, honestly, what a part of me, it's like kind of got comfortable with the closing rate. So I've maintained like a 75% show-up rate. I was making money up until like last month, like 7, 8 grand a month in commissions. And then this month it like plummeted to like 3 grand a month. And I'm still at like 76% show up, 60 plus.
Have you changed? Did you change anything because of that? Or did you just like— your process works, right?
Yeah, my finances just like went down and I was like, you know what, my appointments don't get closed by disclosers. I know for a fact that I'm bringing on good appointments.
It's just for some reason, you know, you got to start doing it yourself, buddy.
Yes, sir. That's what I was thinking too. Well, I finally got into this realization, like after I got this slump this month, when I, you know, make essentially half of what I'm supposed to make.
But yeah, dude. So like, because you asked the question, like, how do I know? That's why I asked, are you allowed to? And if the answer is you're allowed to, then just do it. So salespeople are people who get what they want.
Right?
Do we agree on that as a premise?
Of course.
Like, so go get what you want.
It's just, just how do you, how do you make that transition successfully?
Like, because you've done it already. Well, the thing is, like, I haven't closed, I haven't properly objected. Yeah, that's the good thing about setting for yourself, brother. You, you, you can, you can set yourself up later.
Right.
So the answer is like, you just have to go out there and do it, man. You know what I mean? Um, you know, I could— I can give you a complex series of steps that you could go through, but it's all going to be fugazi, um, made-up stuff to make you feel like you're doing a process. You know what I mean? The answer is like, you just have to go out there and do it. Like, no one's good at things when they first start doing them. So like, waiting to be good at something to do it is retarded. You know what I mean? If you're already able to set your own, you're halfway there, then just finish the rest of it, right? If the guy doing the closing is shit, like, take response, just like take the ownership and go, nah, nah, nah, fuck this noise. Like, I'm not letting those retards do my stuff, right?
Yeah.
So it's like, sit there and start closing some deals. Like, obviously, you know, you probably understand your product quite well. You probably know the pitch. You probably know the script. It's just simply about going out there and doing it. Like, that's why like retard maxing is like a thing. You know what I mean? So it's like, but it's very true because it's just like, don't think, just act. If more people did that, the amount of things that people overthink, it's incredible. If I, the amount of thought that I put into some things would shock you. Like it's just like do. That's a fact.
I mean, big time.
Like I had the idea to start the school group and I spent the next four days filming the course. Like I mean, I just I just blocked out my entire day and filmed four days. Just literally four days straight. That whole course was filmed in about four days, right? And it's just like and I could overthink it or I could just retard like it and I could just do it.
Right?
Like, I just do, I just do stuff. And, and I think like, that's a huge key element. Anyone who I find is just like quite successful just doesn't think about some things very much. You think about some things a lot, right?
Yeah.
But then like when it comes to actually like, the, the problem is when you're gonna start a new endeavor, right? Like a new, new endeavor. or, you know, going into closing, like, you need like a very, very baseline plan. Like, I'm talking back of a napkin, this is what I'm gonna do. That is all you need because your ability to strategically problem solve a new thing is quite low right now. When I start a business, like a business business, these like Like, I can, I can plan that bitch out like month by month for 3 years, right? Like, I know what to do and that's what I've done with like Dialer, for example, because it's quite complex and like that was a— but I've done it before, so it's like, okay, cool. But with this, I was just like, let's go. And I just try stuff and if it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't.
Yeah.
Like, I have an email list. It just doesn't really work that well for conversions. I was like, okay, I tried it a few times.
I was like, whatever.
Try something else, you know what I mean? Just kind of like go around, do stuff, like be willing to fail. This is a really interesting thing. Like, so, uh, I mean, you've probably heard Alex Hormozi talk about the fucking clay pot analogy. You've heard that before? They did a study. They had 2 groups, right? This is an actual thing that happened. They had 2 groups and they said, your goal is to make— they said one group, your goal is to make the perfect pot, right? Like, you know, throwing a clay pot, right? They said your job is to make the perfect pot. The other group, they said your job is to make the most amount of pots possible, right? Who do you think produced the best pot?
Right, the group which produced the most amount of pots, because they produce so many.
Exactly, they produce so many of them Right. That one of them was really good, you know what I mean? And also, like, they just got better and better and better, whereas the group that had to produce the perfect pot overthought absolutely everything, right? So it's like, you can over— you can, you can wait for scripts and you can wait for all these things, or you can just go out there and fucking make a shitload of pots. It's a much better strategy.
Are there any things like, because usually how I frame the call is like, yeah, I'm gonna set you up with this guy, the person who got me into the business because I sell B2C info. It's like he, he's a know-it-all. Like if you have any questions, prepare it for him.
Is that the key to people showing up? That's the key, you reckon?
No, no, no, sir. It's—
Who cares?
Right?
So like, listen, I don't think your question is not valid, but I'm trying to cut to the core of the question, which is like, you have your answer, but you're looking for a reason as to why you need to think about it more.
Yeah, yeah.
Because like, of course you know how to do that. You just go, hey man, next step's here, we're gonna book in a call. From there, that'll give me more time to go over and yada, yada, yada, yada. Makes sense? It's like, boom, 2 seconds, right? You're done. It's like, it's no different. You know, so like, you know, you, you, you, you can run a 100-meter sprint or you can run the hurdles. It's up to you whether or not you put the hurdles in your way. But I know which one's faster.
That makes sense. I just got it.
That was fucking profound. That was profound, gentlemen. That was, uh, All righty, who's next? Hey man, I got a question for you.
James Chambers. Yeah, I started your course. I started your course 3 weeks ago. I went from a 22% close ratio to an 80% close ratio, uh, within those 3 weeks.
Who told me?
Just by, just by your courses. And, uh, But now, what do you sell? I sell in-home sales, foundation repair, but I'm not making the money I want to make. I want to jump into on-phone sales. I raised venture capital in the past, and so I would like to make a jump into like the high-ticket sale, you know. But my question is for you. I want— should I get it, grab a coach? Like, I know Jeremy's got a program, I know Ian's got a program, or Liam's got a program. There's a lot of coaches out there that have programs. What should I actually look for in a coach?
How long have you been in sales?
Uh, 40 years.
You, you want to learn from someone who's been in sales for 3?
Well, I, I need to learn the foundations and techniques of the NEPQ, the new way of doing things, because I've been—
So if you want to learn NEPQ, The only place you can go is 7th Level.
Okay, right.
Like, I teach— like, most sales is very similar, right? NEPQ, I think, is probably the best thought-out process, right? Uh, I think if you went and paid the money and you compared it to what you get here, you'd be a little— you'd be a little disappointed, right? 100%. That's, that's a guarantee for you right there. But But like, you know, it depends. Like, if money, if $10 grand is just whatever, like, there are some, there are, it's a very specific process, right?
Right.
Do I like, you know, so it's like, it depends what the outcome is that you're really looking for. Like, if you've been in sales for a long time and like you were able to take what I taught you and adapt it quickly, which is what happens when you've been in sales for a long time, Then realistically, like, you don't really need to be coached to get on to another offer. Like, that's not really a thing. What you should start doing is start, like, going into that space. Like, most people in high ticket are horrendously bad at sales because most people are 22 and they can— they couldn't pick up a woman at a bar if you gave them a million bucks, right? Which is like, which is like Salesman 101, right?
Right.
Like, if you can't talk to a woman or, you know, or a guy, whatever fucking floats your boat, Then like, you're just not a very persuasive person, right? So like, they don't know how to talk to people. And so they miss a bunch of nuances. There are some incredibly talented ones. However, like, you'll probably be fine because like most people that enter into high ticket have never sold anything before.
Okay.
So if you have, if you have sales experience and you've been fairly decent at sales, which you probably have because you've been in it for a long time, You know what I mean? What I would recommend is that like you would probably want to go onto an offer that sells like coaching to builders.
Okay.
That would probably be a very good offer. A good one is like, I mean, I can introduce you to one, just DM me and I'll introduce you to one.
That'd be great.
Um, uh, like Professional Builder, uh, Marty Amos, you know him?
No.
There's also Profitable Tradie. I know all those guys. Um, those would be like, I think, good transitional ones.
Okay.
Um, and then like, they, they provide lots of training and stuff like that anyway. Um, but yeah, like, those are all good companies and like, they're, they're sort of like, it's, it's good to like transition into realms where that like have a good piggyback, right?
Right.
You know? Yeah, like if you're a personal trainer, selling fitness just makes more sense to begin with, right? And then from there you can kind of move on from there. But you've been dealing with in-home stuff and you've been dealing in the trades, so like I would try and sell something that sells to tradespeople. Okay.
Yeah.
Well, thank you, Matt, and thank you for having this program at a reasonable price because I appreciate it. You've changed my world.
Nah, I appreciate it. When I, when I started, I was like, I'm gonna change James Chambers' life.
You did.
It was the—
You did. I had 100% closing ratio last week.
Boom.
It's impressive for, uh, foundations. They're not cheap.
No, no. We're talking $40,000, $50,000 ticket.
Yeah. Good shit, man. But yeah, if you message me, I can hook you up with, um, A guy that I trained, a mate of mine, Liam Martin, runs The Professional Builder. He's an excellent fucking salesperson.
Okay.
Exquisite salesperson. And yeah, all those offers are always looking for good people. And if you have experience in the industry, like, it's not going to be that— it's not going to be that hard.
Perfect. I will DM you.
All right.
Thank you, Matt.
All right.
Yes.
Next up.
Yo, Matt. I got you. Yo, what's good?
What's going on?
What's up, Matt? Um, so I was in the— I was on a call and I got like the objection I never got before. It was like, I need to— I need to speak to my like spiritual intuition and like my inner guidance. And then I was just like What do you sell? Huh?
What do you sell?
Um, wholesale real estate mentorship.
To what demographic?
B2C, people trying to leave the 9 to 5. Um, yeah, mainly biz op.
Okay.
All right, cool.
Um, all righty. Jeff, are you there?
Nah, he left.
Did he? Piece of shit. Uh, Holden, you there?
Yes.
Can you be my prospect? Can you take me through money and then, uh, your spiritual inner self? And I want to hear how Zab goes about this.
Okay.
You're buying wholesale real estate coaching?
Yeah.
Hey, so it's gonna be a one-time investment of $4,000. How would you like to proceed?
Yeah, I just need to like, you know, talk to my soul, kind of figure out what's going on there and really feel like if spiritually this like aligns with what I need to do.
Okay, go with your money first.
Sorry.
So like, say that and then add like, and I just want to check the finances.
And I just want to check the finances.
Okay, cool. Um, money aside for a second, right? You can throw it out the window. Um, do you genuinely feel like this could be the answer for you?
Yeah, I think it's all right.
All right, or do you feel like it could work?
I think it could work.
Okay, cool. Why do you think that?
You know, the XYZ thing you talked about would be helpful.
Okay, cool. And like, for you, like, what in specific, um, like, is the main thing that like stuck out to you from what I said?
Yeah, that, that XYZ thing. I, I think that would really kind of give me what I'm looking for.
Okay, I'm just gonna pause right there. I'm just gonna pause right there for a start off. First of all, not too bad. Okay, who has a couple of points?
Damn, it was that bad?
No, it wasn't that bad, but I'm gonna tell you what you did wrong. Okay, Holden.
I feel like I was pretty like Not like bought in.
Like, I was like, I mean, it's only been 30 seconds though, so we'll sort of give him that pass. Yeah, I mean, um, okay, cool. I'll just, I'll just do it. Okay, so first of all, uh, you added a lot of sizzle to the steak when the steak is already medium well and medium rare and delicious, right? Okay, so you're like, uh, money aside, generally, you know, we can, we can just throw that out. Do you feel like this could be the answer for you? You added a lot of words. I don't want you to add the words. Money aside, do you feel like this could be the answer?
Okay.
Right?
Simplicity.
Okay.
Don't add this. Don't add all the words. The words create the ability to become misinterpreted.
You're right. I try to do that a lot to like— I try— I think I have my habit. I try to like disarm and like crack jokes to disengage.
Yeah, uh, which is not a bad thing to do. However, again, every single word has the ability to be interpreted differently, and in objections very, very specifically, you're looking to get— you're looking to really control the conversation. So money aside, do you feel this could be the answer? Yes. Why?
Okay. Perfect.
Yeah, I mean, why is that? Okay, perfect. Now, you also, like, you went the way— there's 2 ways that you can go when someone sounds like, yeah, I mean, I guess, or maybe it could, right? And you chose challenge. Okay, now, uh, who here has gone through that component of the objection course? Right, anyway, I have because I did it. Um, so you've got 2 routes. You've got challenge or just kind of like Oh, why do you feel like it could though? Because even like, yeah, I mean, I guess it may, like, maybe it could. Oh, why do you feel like it could? Okay. So I can choose to just take their 50% positive and just move it to 60, 70% through just probing and being optimistic, like being blindly optimistic.
Oh.
Or I can challenge them.
Okay.
Now, challenging is a much more difficult way of doing it.
Okay.
Right?
So my recommendation as a default is to just be optimistic, right? Because the challenging component, especially in objection handling, can get quite spicy quite quickly and take you down pathways which are very unpredictable. And so what we want is we want predictability. All right, so from a baseline standpoint, I want you to practice those things because those— not doing those things, right, just having the simple words and then, uh, not challenging in that, in that area, right, is going to create far more consistency. So you're gonna experience less randomness.
Okay?
Okay.
Yeah. All right.
Okay, cool. Now Now let's move forward. Okay. So is everyone clear on that? Like as a general teaching for everyone?
With those principles that you just outlined, would you apply those to the entirety of the sales call or is this just specifically in terms of the objection handling part?
Uh, the, uh, so challenging is always difficult.
All right.
So like if, if you're not I recommend in general that, like, if you understand your sales process, then the requirement to really challenge someone is usually quite rare, right? Because if it's a thing that you're going to deal with later and you know that, then, like, why bother? Right. Um, uh, so as a general rule, if it's not like a gigantic red flag, I, I wouldn't challenge it, right? Because I'm probably going to deal with it later, as in like not objections, but like my process should break through that, whatever you want to call it, right? And then simplicity of speech is always a better option in sales.
Yeah. Okay, sure.
So good question.
All right.
All right.
Now let's go on. Holden, you're going to be— now we're going into the— yeah.
Okay.
So let's just assume you did partner. You guys have agreed upon a payment plan, right? Because again, without that, there's no point going into any of this other stuff. Right. So I'm going to assume that all that was done correctly. And now it's like, okay, man. So Holden, you want to go speak to your, your inner self? Your third eye, your false god.
Yeah, I'm just gonna go, you know, reflect with my spiritual advisor, try and like open up my pineal gland and really kind of like ascend to the next level before I want to make the decision.
Okay, that makes sense. And what do you feel like is behind that?
Well, you know, it's just something that I do when I make decisions, right, is I want to make sure that it's in line with who I am.
Okay, okay, that makes sense. And could I share a perspective around that?
Yeah, if you'd like.
Okay, cool. So like the decisions like that we have as humans, right? Would you agree that us as humans, our mindset affects the way that we make decisions?
Our mindset?
Yeah.
Again, you've added words. Yeah, you're right.
Would you agree?
Would you agree though?
So many words.
My fault. Would you agree that our mindset affects the way we make decisions?
Dude, I got a rock solid—
You can say, you can say mindset, but it's gonna bite you in the ass. That's why I use decision-making process.
Okay. Would you, would you agree that— would you agree that our decision-making process affects the way we make decisions?
Yeah, I would say, I would say I would agree with that.
Okay, cool.
Yeah.
So like, what changes for people when they change how they actually make decisions? Right.
So I'm gonna, I'm gonna lay that, I'm gonna lay that word track out for you. All right.
Okay.
We're gonna, we're gonna do this together.
All right.
So your thought process is correct. Your execution is garbage, my friend.
Right.
So like, that's right.
Okay.
So, so it's like, okay, so we're gonna go, okay, Holden. And Okay, so like, what do you want to discuss with your inner self?
Yeah, I just want to make sure it's aligning with kind of the chakras that I've like set out from the beginning of the year.
Okay, and how is it feeling so far?
Oh, it's, it's feeling like, it's feeling all right, but not like 100%.
Okay, and so I guess, uh, yeah, it's such a weird objection. Because you can, you can take it in a couple of different ways. So the way that I want to take it is I want to get him into the decision-making process, right? Because I need him to go.
So.
Right.
So it's like, okay, man, let me ask you, I guess, are you 100% happy with the results that you have so far?
Well, not, not 100%.
I don't think anyone's 100%.
So.
Okay.
Well, like, are you happy with the results that you've gotten in terms of like your property portfolio or your investing?
No.
No? And what about like your income generation in general? Remember, this is a biz op, so.
Yeah, no, I'm not making the money that I want.
Okay, so that decision-making process that got you to be ultimately unhappy with where you're at, okay, how much longer do you allow that decision-making process to dictate your life, your money, and your results moving forward?
Not, not much.
Okay, so that's the word track.
You—
oh, the other way that you can get— the other way, the other way that you can do it is you can go like, I would ask him if he's happy, and then I'd go no, and I'd go, okay man, scale of 1 to 10, 10 being you're exactly where you want to be, 1 being you're destitute, where are you at? And you can't say 7, right? They might say I'm a 6, and you go, well, if you want to be here and you're here right now, Is that really a 6? Or like, where are you actually at? It's probably gonna be more like a 3 or a 4. They're gonna go, oh, it's a 3 or a 4. And then you can go, okay, all right, so the decision-making process, the one that you're using right now, okay, that's got you in the position where you're a 4 out of 10, how much longer you trying to allow that to dictate your life, your money, your results moving forward? Okay, that's like the, the more elaborate way.
Yeah, yeah, I was, I was, I was in—
Makes sense?
Yeah, that does make sense. Yes. Okay.
So like, that's how you get them into there.
Okay. Should I continue? Right.
Yeah, no, it's fine. So like, once you've got— so once you like lay that word track out, right? It's hard when you're waking up, but so essentially, like, if you don't use mindset, it will trigger people. Use decision-making process. It's just very— If you use decision-making process instead of perspective, Because in the video you say perspective. It's a different thing though. It's a different word track. So the perspective is the crowbar. You can just— it almost doesn't even make sense. You'd be like, yeah, that makes sense because everyone makes decisions based off their perspective. Like if someone just said, I need to go and align my chakras, you go, that makes sense because everyone makes decisions based on their perspective, right?
Yes.
I use that because it's a crowbar to set a frame. The frame is now that we both agree that your perspective dictates your decisions, right? So then, like, the next step is just that I have to then change your— I have to— once you agree upon that, then I, I know that you're looking at things from one way. Now I have to shift the angle, change the perspective, right? Then you can look at things a different way. Now we agree that if you look at things in a different way, then you can act differently.
Correct?
Yes.
Okay, cool. Well, if the way that you're looking at it now doesn't get you to where you want to be, are you open to looking at it differently?
Yes.
Why?
Okay, cool. When you look at it this way, right, the person who's already won, the person who is where you want to be, do they look at it the same way you do?
No.
Okay, so how do they look at it? They look at it this way. Okay, so do you want to act as if you're someone who can do it or not? Does that make sense logically?
Yeah, I have a question. So like most of them with that, like I went through that, like I in the call I did decision-making process, she agreed, but then it was just like it was very clearly fear and I called it out, but she was like, no, like I feel like I'm okay where I am. Like I feel like my decision-making process is not messed up. Like I'm making $8,000 to $10,000 a month. And I was like, okay, is that where you want to be though? And like, she just kept—
Yeah, but not that she's in a bad spot, it's that she's nowhere near where she wants to be. Like, if you have a business that makes $100 grand a year and you have a business that makes $100 million a year, you have to, you have to make fairly different decisions, right? And, and again, like, you, you can do everything perfectly and it still doesn't work. So we have to be aware of that. The other thing is that like your execution of these things Was not exactly fantastic. So, but the good thing is like that can be fixed quite easily through just practice and training. But your thought process was correct, right? Just now you need to have the execution catch up with it.
Okay.
Right? Okay.
Which is good.
Perfect. Okay.
But like, so, but again, you can do it all perfectly and they don't buy. You can also completely shit the bed the entire way. Stumble, stammer like a retard the whole way through the call and they might buy.
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
So like, this is, this is, this is sales.
Exactly right. And I, I was gonna ask, like, most of like my previous 5 calls, like every single call I've had, it was like a very deep-rooted fear. Like, I, I did reframes for like 45 minutes, an hour straight, and they were like, I know I have to do it, I do know, but I just, I can't. Is there like a reason like behind why Like maybe from upstream or like—
It's very difficult for me to say.
Yeah, absolutely.
Right, because I'm not listening to the calls, right? You know what I mean? But generally speaking, that's just gonna be like, you might not have driven enough urgency throughout the call before the pitch.
Okay.
That's one option. They also, you might've just got 4 little bitches in a row.
True.
I mean, yeah, people who are just afraid of life. Anyway, uh, anyway, good job. All right, next question. You know the crown next to your name in school, Matt?
Yeah.
Can you do that for Dylar?
What do you mean?
Like the— so whoever makes like the top 1%— for you it's the top one.
That's all being made. It's all being made at the moment.
Oh, hell yeah.
But that's like, it's like months away. All the avatars and stuff like that. Like, that's all being built.
So you could be like, oh, I'm a top one person.
I know exactly what you're doing. You know, like, like to, like to make a change on a scalable software is months. Like nothing happens quickly.
Cool.
So like, to make a leaderboard would take 2 months. Oh damn, that's crazy.
Yeah.
Uh, when it comes to like identifying like things that you should be improving in your process, would you say that it's better to like identify the things that you could easily improve rather than what you think would be Like the biggest overall issue in terms of your process? Like, what would you say is— which method would you say is better to focus on? Like, out of those 2?
It's a combination of the 2. Oh, so like definitely getting quick wins. Like if there's 3 things that you can fix that are just like really easy, then like, yes, fix them, right? I mean, but like you have a— I've talked about this a few times. It's just like you've got what opens what lever Opens the largest door, and what is the easiest one to pull? And then it's like it's just a combination of that. So it's like if I'm looking for bang for buck, it's what is the biggest lever? What what is the easiest slash biggest lever? So it's like well this one would take a week to fix, but it's enormous uptick. This one would take a day to fix, but it's fuck all. This one would take a year to fix, but it's crazy big.
Yeah.
Maybe just do, maybe do the weak one. Or like, if you're working with retards, deal with the, like, the really, really simple ones. Get a couple of like, yeah, I mean, it's sort of like there's some decisions to make. There's probably no right or wrong answer, but what you're looking at is a combination of like, what's the easiest thing to fix that then opens the largest door, which also has the least amount of interference in other things.
Okay, it's like a formula.
Like the pitch, for example. Yeah, I mean, the pitch, if, if terrible, will cause huge issues, right? If it's not terrible, it won't cause issues at all. It doesn't have to be good. So making a, a, a not terrible pitch good is not low-hanging fruit. Making a terrible pitch not terrible is low-hanging fruit. Right? But one of the easiest ways is you set all of the numbers up, right? With like, you know, so you got like, you know, outbound pickup, fucking booking rate, show rate, close, whatever, right? Put every number in a row and then obviously at the end of it, it's got money and then you've got all the ratios set up like all their percentages, right? And then you just set the stack of numbers next to it and you just start changing numbers, right? And then whichever one sort of seems reasonable but makes a pretty decent change to that number, start messing with that one, you know?
And what if it's like confined within the actual sales call day?
Yeah, well, that's again, like, that's why I like any PQ as a process because I can break it down by phase. And it's like you can go, okay, situation, problem, solution, consequence, commitment, pitch. And then you can go like, where do people drop off? Where does it get good? Where does it get bad? You just got to analyze that. It's just more— it's just more in-depth, right?
Yeah.
But generally speaking as well, though, like, you know, what's the point of doing any of that if you have a shit show, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
So yeah.
Alrighty.
All right.
Last question, then I gotta run.
Hey Matt, can I ask a question?
Of course.
Thanks. Do you, um, do you think that you can apply NEPQ to selling solar?
Yeah, of course you can do it to anything. It's just what you're like, I think what you're asking is like, Which is not what I'm answering, is can you make selling solar super emotional? Is that what you're asking?
I have started selling solar after selling BizOp, and there's been like zero training on this account, and I just feel fucking lost now because, yeah, it's like—
Just, just, I'll pause you because I know what you're saying, but It's because you're looking at it incorrectly, right? So NPQ is a process. The level of emotion has nothing to do with it.
Yeah.
Right. So what you have to do is like, what do you want? People in solar only want to either lower their energy bill, become energy independent, right?
Yeah.
Add value to the home, whatever it may be. You know what I mean? Who are you selling for?
Resync. Okay.
Do you know that?
And Reuben's not training you? Yeah, I know them very well.
Don't tell him that I said that. No, he's not. He says, watch my calls and do what I do, but my brain's retarded and doesn't work like, like his.
He's quite good.
Um, he—
I—
yeah, I know they're on dialer. I know Resync very well. They're installing my solar right now.
I, I'm just like, I'm pretty new to sales in general, but yeah, you know, we're very expensive. We do all this strange stuff. Yeah, but you're the best.
Yeah, but we're the best, right? Yeah, exactly. So like best quality, best service, yada, yada, yada, right? So like, I mean, what he's saying isn't wrong. You should replicate success. Ruben's very successful in that realm. You should look at what he does and break it down. So any PQ, right? Again, it doesn't have to be like highly emotional. Some things focus on certain parts more. Some things focus on pitch more. Some things focus— but it's like, what are you here for? Connecting questions. I want to get solar. Okay, cool. Why do you want solar? Like, oh, I wanna, you know, reduce the energy, whatever it may be. People are only gonna have a number, handful of things that they want. It's like, what are you currently doing to do that thing? You know what I mean? And then it's like, okay, what are the problems associated, right? And then it's, what is your desired outcome? And then it's like, what are the consequences? Now, the consequences don't have to be like huge, but they can be like, hey, like, how— what, like, especially right now. With all the craziness in the world and the fact that Australia is incredibly unprepared and we're likely going to run out of oil. Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Like, do you, like, do you not think that people are going to want to put a solar with a battery system to, like, make sure that their family can have a fucking refrigerator when everything goes to shit here?
Yeah.
My—
Like, when it inevitably goes to shit. So again, you just have to work your way through that process, though. And it's not about like getting emotions out of people. It's about just like asking the questions like, have you considered the consequences of not doing something like this? Right. And staying on the grid and not actually having a way to create that energy independence for you and your family.
Yeah.
So again, NEPQ is a sales process that I think adapts to literally everything. But how you adapt it is going to be different for every single one, right? Because like, you're not— it's not a highly emotional sale. It's just not, right? It's gonna be more pitch-heavy, but that doesn't make a difference.
We're literally $10K more expensive than some people selling exactly the same.
Yeah, you're the biggest and most, most successful solar company in Australia.
Yeah. And so There's something that I'm doing where—
but it's also not the same. You know that, right?
What do you mean?
You know that Resync owns the panels. They own the distribution.
Belongy? Do they? I don't know. I didn't know that. So they're so fucking busy that like they literally—
there's significantly better panels. And battery systems than most have. They also have like basically lifetime servicing.
Yeah, that's the difference. But people, they get like, they get confused why we're $10K more expensive and they go, is that because like you're just coming out to our house every year for 10 years?
And that's where you should watch their calls because like they're getting that too, but yet they're the most successful solar company here in Australia. So clearly it doesn't matter.
Yeah.
Right?
So like, if you're hung up on it, that's a you thing.
No, I think I don't have a— like, when I asked Ruben for a script, he's like, you don't need a script. He goes, you just get a flow and then just do it. But I—
You should watch his stuff and break it, analyze it, break it down.
Yeah.
And then put it, put it into a process. Right? Like, you'd be able to watch a few of them. You'd be able to see what he's doing. It's not like— it's not, it's not rocket surgery. Yeah, I mean, sales is sales. You're just gonna like look at what success is and then do that. Like, that's exactly what you should do. Then, like, you— if you know the NEPQ process, then you can be like, okay, cool, I'm gonna adapt this to this way. But to answer your question, like, there's thousands of sales reps all over the world that use NEPQ as their process. Now, like, I'm pretty sure you can join APQ and they have a whole solar thing, right? But like, it works. It's just a process. You could adapt straight line. Yeah, I mean, like, if that's how your brain thinks of sales, then you just take what you're hearing and go, okay, cool, that, that, that, that, that. I'm going to break this down. These are the key questions. They're not focusing on problem. Okay, cool. So I'll just ask 1 or 2 problem questions. They're, they're not really focused on solution. They're really railing home consequence and they're pitching really heavy.
Okay, cool.
I can do that.
Yeah, Reuben used Closer framework, I think.
No idea. Okay.
Sales.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Reuben's been a salesperson for a long time.
He's quite good.
Yeah, he's been doing it for like Forever.
Yeah, but like, you know, I used to sell alongside Ruben.
Yeah, where at?
In Forbes.
Oh, okay.
No, no, Forbes. No, wait, it was way back in the day. But yeah, like, but the thing about him is like you just have to listen because it'll be the same thing every time.
Yeah, and he also just doesn't talk. Like, he says as little as possible. Which I find very hard to do.
That's as good as it is.
Which I find very hard to do.
Well, that's a you thing. Like, no one can make you not do stuff.
Mm-hmm.
Only you can, right?
Okay.
So like, have a look at what he's doing, replicate it, and then adapt it and process it out into like an understanding that you have. Right? Because if you do that, it'll work.
Yeah.
All right, good shit, guys. I gotta run.
Bye-bye.
