14:If You Don't Repair It, You Repeat It: Tracy O'Malley on Enneagram, Recovery, and Radical Honesty

You know, my daughter absolutely was the biggest trigger of my life, and she's the hero of my story. All of a sudden, I had this flood of rage bubble up, and I was like, what the fuck is this? And it was like projected right at my daughter. I was like, holy crap. Like, you can't just move away from it and expect to not, you know, if you don't repair it, you repeat it or it gets repeated or both. I don't want to be so distracted so that I miss what is for me when it shows up. That right there. Bingo.

Okay, Tracy, I am beyond excited to have you on Scar Tissue, the podcast. Thank you for being here.

Honored.

Thank you.

I can't wait for our conversation. Who knows what's going to happen? We're going to—

we're unhinged.

All right, let's go.

Now, I've given the formal breakdown, should we say, the resume, as if either of us have resumes, right?

I give you my drunk, my drunk bestie bio too.

You did?

For fun.

You did. And I do wanna hit that briefly because one of the things that stood out in there, I was like, oh yeah, that's true. Mm-hmm. Uh, when I first met you, my, and we met through the Elite Entrepreneur Mastermind.

Mm-hmm.

And just even from across the room, I mean, your eyes first of all are striking. If you're not, you guys are watching this on video, get on video and check out Tracy's eyes. But lazy. There's something about your energy. Mm-hmm. And like the way you hold back and I can see witnessing, not judging, just witnessing and observing. And it was so clear to me that like you could see beyond the outfits, the surface level, the anything of anybody you met.

Mm-hmm.

Um, right from the get-go. And so when you sent me that fun kind of like drunk bestie bio, it was like, you know, Tracy always knows your stuff before you know it.

Mm-hmm.

Doesn't judge.

Nope.

But just, she's aware.

Always.

When did you first, and it's very true, when did you first kind of tap into that?

Probably when I was about 5, honestly. I think growing up in an alcoholic home, you know, it was from a different place, obviously. Like, I had to be able to read a situation, a room, a body language, and kind of reverse engineer what the fuck just happened here for, like, this whole situation to kind of go sideways. So I got it, that, that skill set, I would say, in observing and watching. Through that experience. And also, it is how I'm wired too. Like, it's kind of both collided. And for, I would say, a good 35 to 40 years of my life, I used that more as armor and to be one up on somebody, to protect myself. And it wasn't until about 15 years ago, 14 years ago, that it's still my gift, it's still my superpower, um, but now it's used for, for something a lot more beautiful and without any judgment. You know, before when I used to kind of assess, it was like, okay, even if the judgment was inaccurate, you know, it was coming from a place of protection or being guarded, not letting people get too, too close. Because I mean, the examples I had growing up weren't necessarily safe, right? You know, if I couldn't save what was in my own home, how the hell am I gonna feel safe with anyone.

Sure.

So I was always able to tap into it. When I was 9, I could feel like not just the ability to read what I saw, but feel what I could know without being seen, without the words being said. But I didn't necessarily know what to do with it. And, and honestly, it was pretty disruptive a lot of my life. So I'd try to silence it through any means possible, and sometimes it was really destructive, you know, because if you have like this knowing Yeah. And it's a little controversial or disruptive, like, and, and you come from a very disruptive home. The last thing I wanted to do was add to that, right? In the home, out of the home, and anywhere. So it, there were many, many years trying to quiet that down. Mm-hmm. And it was not fun.

And I'm sure a lot of listeners can resonate, not necessarily with either of our exact stories. Sure. But with that feeling of protection.

Mm-hmm. Right.

And something you and I have spoken about is how our gifts can also be the kryptonite. The kryptonite, right? That was the word that you used. And, and sometimes our armor, right? So it's like we have this gift here.

Yeah.

And it's transitioning from learning how to use it as a shield to protect yourself when you don't feel safe.

Mm-hmm.

To understanding like how to create safety in yourself and use it as like an expander.

Right.

How would you help somebody listening who feels like maybe they have a gift, but maybe they're hiding and they're watching or they're protecting themselves. How might they identify that or, or untangle that?

Well, usually you know it. Like, you, like, I know if you're listening, like, you feel you're called to do more than you're doing. You wanna hear you're, you're here to make an impact, right? And then you go into like the yeah, buts or the, the justification. I mean, and, and I want you to know this is not a box you check and it's like you've arrived.

Like, right.

Just in this last week I've caught my, I teach this shit. Yeah, I can spot it a mile away, and I still catch myself once in a while because new levels bring new devils and new layers, and, and, you know, a deeper excavation process is required. Thankfully, the tools are the tools, but you have to know when and how to pick them up, right? But I know that if you're listening, you're, you're raising your hand saying, I want to be the best version of myself. It's a continuous process.

Totally.

You're never there. Yeah, until you're dead. And then you're watching with a better view. You know what I'm saying?

I say that all the time. I'm like, there's no finish line to this shit.

None.

You know? And there are some people in my life who will be like, don't say that. Please don't say that. And I'm like, but then you just gotta love the process.

Yeah. And you know, that's the beauty of being my age. You know, I'm almost 54 and I have so many receipts that even when I hate the process. Yeah. Like, it's hard to fall in love with a process that's, you know, gives you whiplash and side whacks you all the time or comes out of nowhere. And I hate that everything happens for a reason. I know that we've talked about this. However, I do believe that everything that does happen can be turned into something beautiful. I mean, scar tissue is a perfect example of that. Coming from an alcoholic home, perfect example of it. You and I both could have used both of those situations to justify, to, um, judge other people. It's like, how would you know? You don't live my life, you know what I mean?

Totally.

But at any moment, you can turn something really hard into something beautiful, but it's going to get messy usually before. And that's the beauty of my age, is even when I hate the process or I feel completely in the wilderness— which, by the way, was this week, you know, I was talking with my bestie, I'm like, She's like, how you doing? I'm like, honestly, I feel like a deer in the woods. I can see the light and see the pasture, but I'm ready to run back the other way to where I know. And the good thing is, is I have enough receipts to show that when I stay in it, even the uncomfortable, even the disruptive, even the like the holy shit, this does not make any sense on paper, but I know this is what I'm supposed to do kind of moment. I can still move forward and know that even in that uncomfortableness, on the other side is like, ah, there it is. That's why. That's why.

Yes.

It's hard when you're in it, and it's hard to not justify going the other way or going back to what you know.

Yeah.

But all of you listening that have gone back to what you know, there— if that comes with regret, with, um, discontentment.

Yeah.

With irritability, with resentment. Yeah. And that will rob you of anything good.

Yeah.

So just get uncomfortable. Comfortable. Yeah, kick and scream if you have to. I certainly do, you know. I might throw a few things from time to time in the process that I know is so good for me.

I know, but fuck it.

No, here we go. Yeah.

And so you just spoke into something that I think is a powerful tool that would benefit anybody listening to cultivate, which is that level of awareness, right? Because most people, myself included, at different parts, and even, you know, uh, new things in my life bringing stuff up where I'm like, I wanna run, you you know, it was easier that way. Um, but having the awareness to be like, oh, this is what I'm doing— how might somebody begin to cultivate that?

Well, here's the thing, like, I think a lot of people do have a level of self-awareness. However, they meet it with judgment, criticism, shame, anger, all the things, and that never works. Yeah, that will keep the cycle going, right? Nothing, nothing ever is grown or solved by like this aggressiveness towards ourselves in a negative way, right? Or like the, um, the meanness or the judgment. Like, I promise you, like resentment, shame, criticism, judgment will always keep you stuck. You might get out of it for a second, but you're going to go back into the quicksand. So I think people have that level of self-awareness and then they just go into the pit, right? Right. The problem with all the personal development and self-awareness is, is not a lot of people teach you or show you what it actually looks like to meet yourself with compassion, curiosity, kindness. Like, I'm very aware of my go-tos: isolation, lone wolf syndrome, hiding out, like all the things, armored up. I know all those things, and they happen pretty frequently because, you know, the muscle memory is still no joke.

Yes, right? Yeah.

However, when it does happen— and again, just this week, that is exactly where I was going— and I could feel myself starting to project and also isolate myself and push away the very people that I love more than anything. And instead of going like, Tracy, you're a piece of shit, which is what I wanted to do It was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like, how would you pull a 4-year-old up onto your lap and say something to them? And it's like, get curious, be compassionate, treat yourself with kindness and tenderness, and that will all— and I shit you not, within 5 minutes I was able to keep that spiral from going out of control and becoming unhinged and totally destructive and disruptive in my life. To the things and people I care about and turned it into this beautiful growing moment within, within moments. But it's only because I met myself with that curiosity, kindness, and compassion.

I love that.

It's required.

Yes. I, my background was in mindset when I first started coaching gut health and mindset coming off the loss of my daughter. Obviously not right away. I don't encourage anyone to start mindset coaching right after something like that.

Right.

My background was in psychology as well. But I created a VIBE-L. It's what I called it, the VIBE-L. And it was, you just named everything. I know, right? Um, and so it was a T-chart and you just named it. And it was nothing can grow if it's a low vibe. Nothing. Guilt, right? Guilt, shame, resentment, blame, judgment.

Lowest frequencies of all.

Lowest, right?

Yep.

And then so everything, and I used to coach this, whether it's a food, Right? If you're gonna have the pizza, don't have the pizza and feel guilty. Have the pizza from joy.

Yep.

Right? Such a tangible example.

Easier said than done.

Easier said than done too. None of this is simple, but it's like, um, you know, driving at first, you're like 10 and 2, 10 and 2, very intentional.

And then also you're putting makeup on.

Exactly.

I know, but that's—

I want the— I, I do think it's important the listener hears that, like, it's not something that you have or you don't. It's something that you cultivate, and it's going to be 3 steps forward, a step back.

Oh, for decades, you know, I've been in this work before it was cool. You know, you were probably a toddler. Oh no, you're, you're close. You look a lot younger than— but like, I was 28 when I started diving in because I really thought like I could move away from everything that I was taught, told, and modeled. And I have a beautiful, amazing very passionate, dysfunctional family. Yeah, I love them all so much, but that environment was not good for me.

Sure.

And of course, I was basically a child bride and, you know, got married and was having babies. By the time I was 25, I had 2 kids, 2 dogs, a mortgage, and a husband. You know what I mean? And I really did believe that I could move away from that almost 3,000 miles away, set up shop here in Arizona. And it's like, I'm done with that. Like, I'm not going to repeat that. And it was when my daughter turned 4 and my son was 3. I have Irish twins. They were 3 and 4, and I was 28 years old. And all of a sudden I had this flood of rage bubble up, and I was like, what the fuck is this? And it was like projected right at my daughter, who is like this beautiful free spirit. And thankfully, I was self-aware enough to know like this anger and rage has absolutely nothing to do with her. But she looked so much like me when I was that age. And the age of 4 is the first time I remember self-abandoning, and that my needs weren't important, that my role was this in the home. And all of a sudden I have this 4-year-old who's this beautiful free spirit with, with full capacity to be whoever she was designed to be. And I had so much resentment, like my inner child was going, who's this bitch? And I was like, holy crap, like you can't just move away from it and expect to not— you know, if you don't repair it, you repeat it, or it gets repeated, or both. And I knew like I was about to repeat the very thing that I was taught, told, and modeled, or I was going to lose her, or both. And I don't have a relationship with my own mom, and I did not want that for me or her. And so when I was 28 years old, they were 3 and 4, I started this deep inner work. And it was exactly what you said. It was like 10 steps forward, 8 back, because we didn't talk about this stuff. You know, we're of the generation like, what happens in our house stays in our house. Do as I say, not as I do. You're better seen than heard. I mean, it— that was the running soundtrack of the Gen X kids. Yeah. You know, and you can't just like understand that that's not reality if it's so ingrained in you. And so it took me another 12 years to not kind of be in the closet with that, you know, because even my husband at the time was like, you've got demons. I'm like, yes, I do. And it was almost like I, I had to keep them in the closet. You know, I was actively working on it, but there was nobody to talk about it. The internet was just coming out, you know, back then. I think I was, yeah, about 24, 25 when the internet came out. And so there wasn't the resources available or the freedom to talk about it like that, plus the conditioning of the family. And it wasn't until I turned 40 that I was like, I'm burning everything down, everything. I'm burning every boat, every bridge. Every generational thing that I know. And when you do that, like, and everybody likes it, right?

100%.

So talk about blowing up your life, but in all the best ways. But I knew, like you said, like, I knew from the age of 4 that there was something bigger that was supposed to happen in my life. And at 9, I heard very clearly from the gods above that, like, this is all going to matter for something big. But you gotta stay in the game. And there are many times I wanted to tap out, you know, through drinking, through disordered eating, through toxic relationships, through anger, lack of management, through you name it, I've used it except a drug. Um, it's the only thing I haven't done to kind of quiet the noise. Yeah. And eventually at 40 years old, I'm like, bring on the noise. Yeah, I'm ready to face all of it. It is.

It's really— I remember my grief counselor looking at me and saying, Melissa, sometimes you just have to sit with the shit.

Here's the thing, and I know I probably have some people listening right now that grew up in a similar home than I did.

Sure.

And again, I told you, I kind of reverse engineer everything.

Sure.

My brain works like if you've seen the movie The Hangover, when Zach Galifianakis is walking into the casino ready to count cards and those equations are above his head. That's basically me at all times since I was like 4 years old. Like always kind of like, okay, who's in front of me? What's going on? All the things. And I could reverse engineer both of my parents' history, you know, before they were married and all the things. And I, from the neck up, even as a 9-year-old, could understand why things were happening the way they were. And I think especially in the personal development land, there's mindset, right? There's so much mindset that we understand all of it from the neck up, but nobody wants to feel this shit from the neck down. Like, you're not doing your soul set work, right? You're doing mindset work to understand it. And that cognitive understanding is almost a freaking spiritual bypass.

Yep.

And it's— yeah, that's where codependency lives. It's like, well, I understand he is that way because of this, or, you know, and then we start co-signing bullshit Yep. Which is actually enabling people. It's not helping anyone, including yourself.

100%.

And it wasn't until I stopped being neck down dead that the real shifts happened. But so many of you are walking around neck down dead. You understand all the shit.

Yep. No, 100%, right? Oh, there was so much gold in there. One of the things that you mentioned in your opening story— and thank you for sharing so like raw, you know. So is that a word, raw? English is hard. I like it raw. Um, for, um, uh, was how ultimately your 3 or 4-year-old daughter at the time— she was 3 or 4— 4-year-old daughter was a major trigger.

Biggest trigger of my life, right? And saved my life because of that trigger.

And yeah, I don't want to like— I don't want to bypass that. I don't want to skip over that. Is The power of our triggers and how quickly, uh, even, even I'm sure each of us now will be tempted to want to blame or point fingers or this or that, but like when we can actually let it be a mirror and an opportunity and like you talked about, say curiosity and compassion.

Yep.

Can I be compassionate for myself that I'm experiencing this trigger? Because it's real. And then get curious about what the fuck is coming up.

Why? What's, what's behind this for you, right? Like, this last week I was so triggered. I was so triggered. And I know, like, every trigger is an opportunity. Yeah, right? It's, it's a mirror, and it's like, what is this about me? And I was, I was pretty stuck in it for a moment, and I was like, why am I so activated right now? And it's usually when we're on the verge of something really big for ourselves, the next level of growth. And I'm so thankful that I know this now. You know, my daughter absolutely was the biggest trigger of my life, and she's the hero of my story. She really, really is. And she's my very best friend today at 29 years old. You know, it's seriously— and I, I don't throw that word around lightly, but if I even for a moment would let that anger trigger destroy the very— like, if you take the trigger and use it to judge, project, beat yourself up, disassociate, all the things, escape, run, right? Like, it's gonna rob you of what's for you. Yep. Right? If a trigger shows up, you can be happy. Yeah. Because something beautiful is coming if you stay in the work and do it.

Stand in the fire.

Stand in the fire. That is my, my number one thing for my life is I want to be around people that are willing to get in the fire with me. And it's spicy and it's hot.

It's spicy.

It's spicy. It's hot. And that was what was happening this week is I felt like, you're not in the fire with me. Yeah. But the fact of the matter is, is I had blazed the fire so hot and like nobody could get in even if they wanted to. Yeah, right. Because my stuff, I was feeling so activated, like Part of me is more comfortable being the lone wolf. Part of me is more comfortable not relying on anyone, not letting anybody get close. But I also know, like, it's the opposite of what I really do want, right? Yes. Yeah. Uh, this shit's humbling.

It's so humbling.

Beautiful. Yeah. And messy as fuck.

I know. I love it. Honestly, triggers— I mean, relationships, business, these money—

oh, Money, all of it. Teachers, we all got relationships with this shit that activate the crap out of us.

I know, I know.

What are you gonna do with it?

Yeah, no, I mean, I can resonate. I mean, I've been, I've been lone— I mean, I mean, I guess kind of lone wolfing and like, uh, yes, yes ma'am, uh, you know, for 5 years. And then all of a sudden it's like, you know, same. Yeah, and then we've talked about it.

All of a sudden you're like, oh I remember when I met you, I was like, well, I went 7 years. You're like, yeah, cool. I'm like, I don't know about that. It's a little excessive. And you were at year 5. I'm like, no, this is the year that changes for you.

Yeah, I know. I did. I didn't date in 7 years. Yeah, I know. It was wild.

It was worth the wait.

It was absolutely worth the wait.

Because here's the thing, like, even though you and I both were very selectively celibate for those amount of years in the prime of our 40s also, you started about when you were 40. So did I. And I remember my therapist saying to me— and you may have had friends say this shit to you during that time of the sabbatical— my therapist was like, you know, you should probably practice date.

Oh my God, I used to get that too.

Exactly. And I remember looking deadass Nancy in the face. Nancy, if you're listening, I love you. She was my therapist for 13 years. I'm like, Nancy, and like, like, just cue the dramatic moment, like picking up a cigarette. I don't smoke, never have. Pick up the cigarette, it's like, Nancy, I appreciate it. I know how to date, and I promise you I am not avoiding it. I'm not avoiding it. However, I want to understand my role in every breakdown so that I don't repeat it and bring it to the next chapter. And I— this was the key thing that I said— I don't want to be so distracted by what isn't for me that I miss what— so that I miss what is for me when it shows up. That right there, bingo. Because I said I'll know when I know, and I sure as fuck did. Like, it walked in the room. I didn't even see him. I felt it. I was like, oh, okay, here we go, here we go. And sure enough, here we are 6 years later together.

It's wild. But what you just—

didn't have to go on a dating app. You didn't either, apparently.

I, you know, I signed up Right. But never actually went on one.

My cousin, I had it, didn't put a profile up.

My cousin and his now fiancée and I put the dating app on the TV screen. They somehow like, I don't know how to even do that. Popcorn, pour a glass of wine, and we're sitting there going through and I was literally like, it was entertainment, but I was like, I know, I can't. But what you said, beyond hilarious, I don't, how did you word it? I don't want to miss what is actually for me by being distracted by what isn't there. Isn't there.

I don't want to be so distracted by what isn't for me that I miss what is for me when it shows up.

Yes. Two things there. I, I just want to like pause in that one. It's so powerful. That's business too.

Business too. 100%, right? I mean, I've said no to things that I was like, on paper this sounds really freaking great, but like, I know, like, you know, how many times have you committed to something and then what does show up for you shows up and you can't do it because you're overcommitted, burnt out? Tapped out, resourced out.

Yep.

All the things, right? So this is where, like, really understanding that— understanding shit from the neck up isn't enough. Because on paper, I can understand everything that I could have said yes to. Yep. But from the neck down, it was a hard no, right? And there are times I'm, like, competing with the two. I'm like, they're— I'm, like, breaking up a fight between, like, you know, the heart and soul and my mind and knowing. It's like, will you— I'm gonna separate you two for a moment. Yeah, I am going to—

I'm putting my inner selves in timeout.

Yeah, exactly.

Opposite corners of the room.

Exactly. But it's when you get them working together, it's like, yes, I understand, this makes sense, and, and this is also a hard no for me right now. And I'm really glad that not just in that relationship, because it, it's turned out okay, but business and opportunities, you know, I've had things the last few years The last 2 years has been really hard for a lot of people. Yep. And I've said no to a lot of things at a time when I really could have used some of those things. Yep. And sure as shit, like, thank God I said no. Yep. Because the right things keep showing up and you have that space. I like to say, like, you know, abundance in the elite doesn't wait in line. You always have to leave room for the miracles to show up.

Yes.

That means money, that means relationships, that means support, friendships, time, health, all of it. Like, you have to have some give. Yep. Because something beautiful is not gonna like, oh, I'll wait in line over here for you. I had this girlfriend that, um, we've been friends since high school, and she always had a boyfriend, and they were always shitty. And I'm like, girl, why?

Why?

You know this guy is a piece of shit for you. Like, he might be a good person, but he's not good for you.

Yep.

Like, why do you keep hanging on to him? And she kept saying, well, I'm just gonna wait till like the right one shows up. I'm like, just Mr. Trash Number 2 is gonna show up because they'll wait in line for the perfect opportunity to pounce. Yep. Right. Somebody like quality is not— like, he wouldn't even like enter this territory. And you have to be willing to let go and sit in that purgatory and wilderness and loneliness sometimes.

Yes.

There were so many quiet, long— even though I like being alone a lot, you know, there were moments it was really, really lonely. Yes. Especially on the throes of some grief. Yes, you know, but like, I'm so glad that I didn't try to numb that out through a warm body that wasn't for me, or, um, a warm opportunity that really was not exciting me at all. Because the right shit shows up when there's room for the miracles. Yes.

And I, I can't drive that home enough for the listeners.

This is true.

The viewer, because Uh, it's an abundance mindset, right? The scarcity is so afraid of that space, but the wilderness is scary.

Not gonna lie. Right? Yeah, it is.

Yep. Former versions of me had to fill every second of every day.

Of course it did.

You know? And then as you begin to let go of that and, um, yeah. And just, I, I think what I would recommend to put a bow on that a little bit or expand is show up in a way right now. I used to say to myself, How does the woman in a relationship with this type of man show up right now? How does a woman— and I would envision myself at the gym, on stages together, like doing these things— like, how do I show up right now today for that? What do I get to say no to so that yes, you know, whenever it is here, is here? Same thing for business.

Absolutely same thing for business.

I turned down a contract yesterday and it would've been very profitable, right? It would've been very lucrative. And I, I was on it. And one, energetically, it didn't feel good for me.

Yeah.

But former versions of me would've just seen the number. Yep. And too much, too often people chase that immediate revenue. Those numbers mean nothing.

Like, or the immediate oxytocin or the immediate, yeah. Like they play the short game.

And now I look at, now I don't look at what do I get from that? Now I look at like, well, what would it cost me to say yes to that? That time, that energy, that's going to take away from something else.

There's always an exchange. Yeah, always.

And so I just—

is it worth it for you?

Just want to like drive that home. Like, that is that higher level of evolution, as you said earlier.

People listening to this want to grow, and the universe will test you because it'll, it'll tempt— it'll tempt you at times of vulnerability.

Yes.

Financially, emotionally, spiritually.

Yep.

Physically. It like you will be tempted. I mean, some of the biggest opportunities have shown up that weren't for me when I really could have used the financial influx of money, right? And it's like, yeah, like the businesswoman in me and the neck-up version of me wants to like justify why that would be a really beautiful yes. I love that. Everything up. Yeah, the head. She's a cocky son of a gun.

I know, she's pretty arrogant. Her neck-up likes to control.

She does. She loves the control. It's also like my Capricorn rising. I know it. It's like I need to be calculated and understand and like, yeah, you know, prepared. And also like a lifetime in that neck-up living did rob me of some beautiful moments and miracles. Yep. And you go, you don't get that back.

You don't get it back.

Nope.

And that takes some time and some trust because I think most people who default to that. It's a lack of trust. But ultimately, I don't know about for you, but for me, it all came down to self-trust.

Yeah, self-trust. And here's the thing though, I think sometimes like we can justify even self-trust, right? Like there's a few layers to like to that. I think sometimes like I can self-trust my way into justifying why I can do anything. Sure, we all can.

Yep.

You know, but it's like self-trust with the curiosity. Yes. And, and the compassionate truth. Yeah, right. That radical responsibility and radical truth, I love that. However, most people take radical and really force aggression onto it. Yep. Like, radical compassionate honesty is like required. Yeah.

Oh, it's so good. I mean, we could jam on this all day, but one of the tools that you discovered From Nancy as well. My therapist, Nancy.

I told her to go fuck herself with this one too.

Oh my God, I love that. Okay, so takeaway there: if you tell someone to go fuck themselves with something, it might actually be not a go fuck yourself with it, right?

Right. It's a trigger.

It's a trigger. It's a teacher.

Yeah, Nancy triggered the shit out of me. Yeah.

And there, you know, uh, again, you really did nail it when you said the listeners, they want to grow, right?

Absolutely.

I mean, look, this podcast started when I was like in my shitty apartment. I couldn't pay rent for $1,400 a month in like a two-family home outside of Boston, you know, going through my grief, right? And here we are. And so that just is one day at a time, right?

You know, I, I use this analogy a lot, and ladies, I know you'll appreciate this. Like, I mean, me and JLo are about the same age, okay? She's got an ass that pops like nobody's business. All of the ladies want a JLo booty. Right? But none of them want to do the number of squats and reps to put in that it would take to have it. Yeah, right. Same thing with this kind of growth and this kind of evolution with yourself. It's not like you get under the squat rack once and you're popping, right? It takes consistent daily effort over and over, and the reps always build the confidence, the reps always build, um, all of that. And You know, in my early days of this, it— that's why it is so often the 10 forward, 8 back. 10, you are making small progress, but it's like not as much as you would like for all the heavy lifting you might be doing because you're going to work to sabotage those other 8 steps.

Yep.

You know what I mean? So when I walked into rehab— that's part of the story maybe y'all didn't know. You know, if you don't repair it, it gets repeated sometimes. And that was true in my household, like My dad never repaired his relationship with alcohol. And although my version of it looked a little different, it still got repeated in some ways. And I knew like that was a symptom of a deeper problem.

Sure.

Right. Because I could give away alcohol, no problem. I didn't need it. But emotionally, I didn't have any kind of regulation tools. And even though I could clock whoever was in front of me at any given time, I couldn't do it for myself. Yeah, you know, without justification and judgment and all the things. So, um, right after my dad died, after a 12-day cancer diagnosis, um, I was kind of white-knuckling life. I was like, if this is all there is, I, I got a long-ass way to go. And the kids were teenagers at the time, and I started to see the whole if you don't repair it, you repeat it, or it gets repeated, or both things starting to play out. And I didn't want that for them, but the only way they would know different is if I go first, right? The do as I say, not as I do generation that we grew up with, that doesn't work. Yeah, right. They're gonna do what we do, not what we say to do.

Exactly.

And if I don't show them the right way, they're going to go seek it out somewhere else, and probably not in an effective way. And I always wanted to be their lighthouse.

Sure.

But then I needed to stand in the light. Sure. And in order to see the light, sometimes you have to witness the dark. And so I made the decision to check myself into rehab. Everybody in my life at the time thought I was crazy for doing so. They're like, you're not bad, what are you talking about? You don't have a problem. And maybe on paper to them I didn't, but I also have higher standards than that.

Yep.

And I had higher standards for what I wanted modeled, taught, and told for my children. If I'm going to be the lighthouse, then I better light the fucking bitch up. Yep. Yeah. So I walk into rehab, and I had had 9 therapists before I met Nancy. And I walked into rehab and she just had my number. And, um, on day 2 she's like, hey, I want you to take this Enneagram thing. I'm like, respectfully, Nancy, go fuck yourself. I'm— I don't need a personality test. I need help. I'm in rehab. And she's like, frankly, my dear, your best thinking has gotten you here. And this might open up, um, that robust ego of yours and, um, might help you get out of the box that not only you've put yourself in, but the world has also put you in. So how about you open up your mind a little bit? I was like, okay, touché, Nancy.

Yeah, well played.

Stepped right in the fire. She did not care how big and burning it was. She's like, I'm in the fire with you. Ah. And so, um, on day 2 in rehab, I was introduced to the Enneagram.

Wow.

And because I've always had that special gift of being able to reverse engineer people, it was like the universe, God, whatever that means to you I heard the voice say, I have been waiting for you to be responsible enough and ready enough to give you this language so that you can use it for good. Because it's just like any tool. Any tool can be weaponized. Yes, the Bible, a chainsaw, it doesn't— the Enneagram, all those are tools.

Yep.

And in the wrong hands with poor intent, they are weaponized. And absolutely, had I had this tool at my fingertips sooner I absolutely would have used it to protect myself even more, armor up even more, control, manipulate, to protect myself. And so it was like this, this perfect storm of my humility, my willingness, my surrender, Nancy, this tool, God. Like, it was my dad dying. Like, it was like this tornado of a process that was not fun, y'all. Yeah, not my shining processing moment. However, like, that, that surrender and that humility I had enough of to say, like, I'm ready to know the way, go the way, and show the way. And the Enneagram became the atlas that I'd already known but didn't have a language for or a framework for.

Yeah.

And it was like, it was plug and play for me. It's like, I already know all this, I already know all this, but now it all makes sense to me. And the first aha was understanding my kids and how different they were, not just from me but from each other. And I was, you know, I, I used to say I have a mini me, and I will never say that again because no, he's a mini him, she's a mini her. Like, I don't want to make her— yeah, a mini me if she's not at all wired like me, right? You know, it's like clipping her wings or his wings.

You see that a lot with parents all the time. Yeah, they turn their children—

or I was a mini me. Yeah. I was a mini me and we saw how that turned out for a while. Not so great. Yeah.

Because you don't get to find who you are.

It's not— you're not allowed to be who you are sometimes, or you believe you're not allowed to be who you are. And so then we go to suppress it, outsource it, whatever. And so when I got out of rehab, I brought this tool with me, telling no one for the next 5 years. But I started to take what I already intuitively had known since I was a little girl with this Atlas framework compass. And really started the observation again now with a place of compassion, empathy, humility because of my recovery. You know, I've got almost 14 years now under my belt of recovery, and every person that was in front of me, I was like, okay, where do they fit into this framework? And if I thought I landed, I would speak to it as though I had landed. And I knew if I did because I could shift somebody immediately or they could feel like the compassion oozing off of me, which didn't come naturally to me. Sure, compassion got you hurt, right? Right. Compassion got you betrayed, right, or violated. Um, so that, that was a muscle I really had to build, but the Enneagram also helped me do that, and I was able to shift people very, very quickly. I'd left a male-dominated industry. I worked in almost full male industry for 15 years before I went to rehab. Went into rehab, resigned, walked away from that, and had for the first time in my life like no job. And then ended up in an almost female-dominated industry. I was like, this should be interesting. Yeah, because I don't— I didn't typically do well with women. Yep. Because compassion is kind of required to have a vulnerability exchange, which, sure, as a woman in that feminine energy is kind of important.

Yeah, just a little bit.

I lacked that. So with, with my understanding of the Enneagram, plus the humility and compassion, I went from a male-dominated industry to almost a full female-dominated industry and led a huge organization and sales team where everybody had success. And my favorite statistic wasn't like the money I made or the money that I even helped them make. My favorite statistic was, is I helped 7 of them become millionaires and and they were represented by 6 different Enneagram types. Not one of them was the same as me.

Wow.

Which was a true testament to my ability to understand people because I'm coming from the right place, and also understanding this framework and speaking in, in the way of what's in it for them. And like, the magic happened, right? I was like, holy shit. And for 5 years I was in the closet with it, and everybody's like, how do you do this? Like, do you read minds? I'm like, well, kind of, kind of, kind of. And also, and then it was in 2017, um, after 5 years using it that the Enneagram became trendy.

Yeah.

And it pissed me off.

Yep.

Not because I thought I was missing the boat, but because I saw it being used in a way— weaponized, superficial, cutesy. And it pissed me off enough to say, like, all right, I'm coming out of the closet with this thing. I'm going to show you the beautiful power and legendary way this thing can be used with beautiful intent and integrity.

Yep.

And that's how that happened. And now I, you know, everybody knows me as the Enneagram girl, and now I go into big company CEOs and C-suite executives and families and organizations, teaching them the Atlas of the Enneagram. Yeah. And using it as a tool to guide their people.

Such a powerful tool.

Crazy.

I love that. Thank you for sharing that story. I think, I mean, there's so many— the teacher in me likes to like land the bullets for— yeah, you're good at it, you know what I mean?

You're so good at it.

Well, you know, again, understanding like a chapter isn't our whole book or story, right? A chapter is a part of it. And I think a lot of people get stuck in the self-judgment or the shame and they would miss that one of the most beautiful opportunities was birthed in rehab, you know? And just— it just is what it is.

And not a, not a good process. Yeah, not a fun one, you know? But like, thank God I stayed in it. Yeah, you know? And, and even the statistics in recovery are grim. Yeah, you know, 2% make it. Yeah, 2%. And I could have easily been like, bitches, I'm out. Right. And thank God I didn't. Thank God I didn't.

Exactly.

And here we are. Yeah.

And I think—

crazy.

Yeah. And that takes a willingness to be in the fire, you know? And I, I just want to encourage you in listening to be like, where am I willing to be in the fire? Where am I avoiding?

And the fires that are right for you too, because I think some of y'all blow up your life and you're standing in the flames, and that's a different kind of fire. Yeah. You know what I mean?

That was me in my 20s.

Yeah.

I would light fires everywhere.

Like, yeah, same.

And then let me run in that fire.

It's usually fires you want to run from are the ones you should probably— correct.

Yes, 100%.

Not the ones you start yourself, typically. Even though, like, in a way I did start a lot of those fires myself, but sure, I kept running from them. Sure, you know.

Yeah, but there was just so much within that story, you know. And I always tell people, like, write this stuff down, listen again, like bookmark it, whatever you need to do.

It's crazy because, like, I remember at that time I was like, oh my God, my life, my life. I was 40 years old, y'all, and what's like the things that have transpired even in the last 14 years is just like I'm on version like 6.0. I know, at this point it's like, was that real? Like even my marriage, I've been divorced now for 18 years, was married for 14. I'm like, was I really married to him?

That crazy.

So different. It's like things were so different. And obviously I was, I got these two beautiful kids to show for it, right? And he's a great person, right? Just, it's just So wild when you think like this is as hard as it's going to get or as good as it's going to get. The plot twist is always coming.

That's what I wrote for my, my post on my—

did you?

Yeah, it's the best plot twist of 2025.

Oh, and you know, I never thought that checking myself into rehab and, and doing something that felt at the time very humiliating was single-handedly the greatest decision of my life and the catalyst for the biggest growth, impact, purpose. That little girl that was praying that this would all matter for something. Yeah, you know, the shit at home, the, the chaos, the pain, the abuse, all of it. Like, that girl was praying for this to matter for something. It was in that moment of courage that all of it did.

So powerful. It's so great.

Yeah.

And, um, you know, for those of you listening who aren't familiar, you know, with the Enneagram, it's— without breaking it down completely, just in a very simple, uh, simplest form, how would you explain that to a listener?

Right. So I think that we are all, you know, and I've carried two babies in my body and have had the, the beautiful gift and honor of watching them grow old Um, and even when they became earthside, and even those first few months when you start to see their personality come to life, um, how they were in utero was very true to who they were and who they are even to this day in their personalities. And so like the Enneagram is a combination of like nature and nurture, like that divine wiring is in you the moment that you, you, you are in there. Right? It's, it's in there waiting to be exposed and dropped into an environment, and depending on that environment, the expression of it can absolutely be altered. Like, even the birth story of me— like, I was almost born, um, at like 25, 26 weeks back in 1972. Like, the fact that I survived that and, and went full term, um, and then like the whole burst. I was born to fight. I was born a fighter, and like, and that's who I am. But then you drop me into an alcoholic home, and in certain situations I couldn't express myself as a fighter. But then, then there were other times, like, if I have to suppress it here, I'm going to overcompensate there, right? So the Enneagram kind of takes that divine wiring and helps you effectively express it in ways, or get back to who you were always designed to be. You know, there's components within the Enneagram that are kind of extra tools in the toolbox that give you range, right? But if we're so fixated on, this is who I am and this is the way it is and this is the expression of it I know, which is who I was most of my life. I was the unhealthy version of my personality type most of my life because protection, all the things, right, we've already talked about. But when I was humbled enough, and I remember when I first saw the Enneagram and I knew what I was, I did not want to be that. Mm. But it was in that moment, day 2 in rehab, it's like where there is darkness, there must be light. And the very thing that are my superpowers are also my kryptonite.

Sure.

And understanding that there are 9 different of these divine wirings and all of them are unique and all of them are very special. And what you're great at is maybe not what I'm great at. And that doesn't mean that I'm better than you or you're better than me. However, when we understand kind of our framework within that Enneagram, we are actually connected. Right? Our numbers are connected.

I know.

And it's a beautiful thing. It's like I can lean into that. But when I can stay in, in my zone, coming from a place of love, compassion, empathy, service, grace, fun, innocence, that's when my superpowers are world-changing. And those same superpowers, when I'm coming from a place of fear, insecurity, unworthiness, shame, guilt, ego, then it's like a wrecking ball in my life. And so the Enneagram kind of provides you as like an atlas. And as a little girl, you know, again, internet didn't come around until I was about 25, 26. I used to read the atlas as a little girl.

Yeah.

And I was always fascinated, probably because of the house I grew up in, but I was always fascinated, like, how do we get from here to there, and how the hell do I get out of here?

Yeah, yeah.

And the Enneagram can read like an atlas. Yep. Like, I want to be the best version of myself. Great, this is the way you go. But to whom much is given, much is required, right? And with great reward comes great responsibility. Mm-hmm. But with this roadmap, it, it kind of streamlines that process. It gives you the fast pass a little bit without bypassing.

Sure.

You know? Sure. You know?

Yeah.

That's, it's, it's basically the compass for your life.

Mm. It's so powerful.

And, and understanding why you do what you do.

Sure.

Not just what you do.

Yeah. And I would encourage everybody to explore that. And I wanna let them know, um, I know we're coming up on time. I wanna let them know where they can find you and maybe dive into Enneagram with you because I did.

I know.

And it was so good.

So juicy.

I've got a couple people on my list that we're getting to you soon.

So good. And here's the thing, did I have any surprises for you?

I don't remember. Um, you can say any of mine, I don't care.

Yeah, open with 5, which is amazing. It's my favorite Enneagram type because they're so quirky in what they know. Like, when they know their shit, they know their shit. And what's cool about 5s is they don't need to know all the shit, but whenever they are excited about learning about something, there's nobody better. Like, if remember Who Wants to Be a Millionaire, the TV show, the phone-a-friend portion? Yeah, I would pick a 5 every time.

Yeah, yeah.

And I have an Enneagram 5 friend in every industry because they're my phone-a-friend. Yeah, you are my marketing phone-a-friend, right? So, um, where you can find this— and here's the thing, if you go and ChatGPT Enneagram or try to Google Enneagram, those free online assessments are inaccurate 65 to 70% of the time because, hello, nature and nurture collide. Sure, right. And your shit basically is hiding a lot. A lot of the online stuff, um, they'll have it focused on your behaviors. And you know as well as I do, you know, the behaviors are really kind of the protection to like the more vulnerable parts of us.

Yeah.

So I do have an assessment that is like 95% accurate, which is the one that you took. Yep. Um, so you can go to TracyO'Malley.com and get your blueprint. You'll get the assessment and your customized blueprint. You can even add on like a live reading with me where I break it all down.

Do it. That's what I did. It was so good.

She did a 90-minute power session, which we went into all of it.

I go all in. I mean, I just go all in.

Like, it's one thing to like have the atlas.

Yeah.

It's another thing to not only have it translated, and then it's another thing to help you integrate it. Oh, it's like seeing it, reading it. You know, having it read to you and then integrating it in real time. So all that can be found at traciomalley.com. I do have a podcast, almost 500 episodes, called The Enneagram Edge. I bring Enneagram into, you know, leadership, you know, your home teams, your professional teams, because I think leadership, we should take a holistic approach. You know, the leader that I am in my home is the same one that I am professionally because 'cause it's a lot less exhausting.

Sure.

Trying to be something different at all times. Um, yeah, I'm on the Instagram too.

So we're gonna link everything.

Yeah.

You're gonna get it all linked. But before I say thank you, I, there was something else that teacher in me has to pull out.

Okay.

That you said was that you, uh, and we had, we, we have a lot of similarities. Yeah.

Right.

I think from the beginning we both felt that.

Yeah.

And you said, well, I don't wanna be the, you know, I don't wanna get into Enneagram because I saw the way it was being, you know, it was, uh, it was superficial. It was being weaponized. It was being used maybe to manipulate even, which is like weaponized, right? And I tell this story all the time of I did not wanna do marketing because I literally built my whole first business without like fancy photo shoots or any, I didn't have anything, right? And so I was like, if you do marketing, you're fake. Marketing smells smoke or sells smoke and mirrors, right? And sure that there was a lot of that out there and sure there was a lot of, um, falsified Enneagram out there, right?

Yep.

But what I want the listener to hear is if you have a gift that is authentic and that is real, you are not doing anyone favors by keeping it hidden or having chips on my shoulder like I did and like you did for a little while of saying, well, I'm not going out there because it's all bullshit. No, we have to go be the alternative.

Here's the thing, you know, back to rehab for a moment. Yeah, just for a moment. When Nancy was reading to the class the class of 14 that we were all in, year 2012. And she, you know, she was reading the statistics of who's actually going to make it, and she said 2% of you. And I literally, my first words spoken in rehab were, I'm apologizing to all of you now because you're not going to make it, because I'm the 2%. And when I think about you with marketing, me in this space, um, and my choice in breaking my anonymity in recovery. You know, I got a lot of shit early on for being open in my recovery, and I was so pissed off that there were not more stories of experience, strength, and hope modeling what recovery can be.

Sure.

All we hear about is the, the addicts that are pieces of shit, you know, and all of that. Same thing with the marketing, same thing with what I do. If the 2% don't show the fuck up. Yep. How are we going to be able to be the lighthouses for those, or shine a light without even having to say shit? Like, I can be strong in my recovery and not talk shit about an addict.

Sure.

I can be strong in my light in the coaching world without talking shit about the 90% of it that's crap. Yep. But we have to show up.

Yes.

And I'm so glad that you are part of the 2% in that marketing space that—

thank you—

that is so glaringly, obviously different.

Thank you.

And same. So for those of you that are hiding, if you know in your whole heart that you are part of that 2% club, then you got to show the fuck up.

Show the fuck up. And with that, Tracy, I cannot thank you enough.

And so it is.

And so it is. Tracy, thank you so much for coming and sharing your gifts, sharing your authenticity, and sharing with all of our listeners. You guys, we will link all of the places in which you can find Tracy, but TracyO'Malley.com Go find her website, scope out the Enneagram opportunities there, and do yourself a favor and just do it. Send her a message on Instagram, let her know your biggest takeaway. And thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you, Tracy, for being with us.