Ep12: 98% of Your Website Visitors Will NEVER Come Back w/ Marketing + Operations Expert Nick Harder

All these things kind of have to play hand in hand and really fall under the purview of marketing. 90 to 98% will bounce and never return, never return. Most people will not go through it all. Their product didn't work for me. I didn't get the result that they promised. So screw them. You know, they say a rising tide lifts all boats, right? All these people that I see that have kind of risen up together are all the big names that we all talk about now. Because I promise that's going to be the, the secret to really excelling and just going so much faster and so much further down the road in their businesses.

Okay, Nick, thank you so much for joining us on Scar Tissue.

Of course, excited to be here.

There are so many, uh, realms of expertise that you have that I cannot wait to share with the audience so they can enjoy you as much as I do. Um, but thank you for being here and give the people a little bit of a rundown of what you do.

Uh, so I've been kind of the, uh, the backside of businesses for, uh, coming up on 15, 20 years now, uh, really running ops and marketing for handful of larger brands, personal brands, digital products, products, uh, like podcasts, e-courses, and then the event world as well. We used to run, um, you know, up to 10 events a year with some of the different brands that I was— that I've been a part of and helped grow. Um, and it's really where I cut my teeth in marketing and where I got my, like, marketing focus and ops focus was I was just kind of thrown into it. Um, I was, uh, I was a coordinator on a TV show initially.

And what TV show?

Uh, Extreme Makeover Home Edition. As a production coordinator for the show. And I just picture you like your head too, like, had a hard hat and everything. I look like Bob the Builder. Um, and, uh, my sister-in-law Lori Harder, and, uh, she was putting on a big women's event, and she asked me to kind of help plan it, come help plan it, uh, execute on the, uh, in the back of the room and whatnot with logistics and AV and all that stuff. And, uh, they always tell, they always tell the story, if I show up to the first meeting with like a binder and a run of show and everything already, and they're like, oh, this is perfect. We got the right person. Um, and so the event was great. And, uh, I, I think the job offer was, hey, do you want to stick around and learn shit and help us grow? I think was the technical job offer and job description. And so I stuck around and I just learned shit. Um, I'm a natural researcher kind of by trade, and so I just started, uh, learning marketing, learning ops. Um, you know, we had, uh, we had kind of a— the back of a TV where all the wires are just a complete mess, right? But the front looks nice. That's kind of what the businesses that, uh, that we had running at the time when I stepped in and I'm like, okay, let's start making sense of things. And so I was brought on to really make things orderly and whatnot. And so after 15, 20 years of like researching, going through courses, becoming certified, um, with a digital marketer, um, different, um, agencies, uh, spending over $1 million on Facebook ads, stuff like that. I've kind of learned a lot of different things, kind of enough to be dangerous in all the different things as far as ops, marketing, audience acquisition, products, stuff like that.

So good. And I was laughing as you said, I like to research things because I remember when I first started working with you or Zooming with you or getting to know you, I would say something and then I could see you researching it. On like your other screen, like in real time. And I was like, what is he doing? Immediately. And then, yeah, and then I, I finally figured it out. So yeah, and for context for listeners, Nick and I met, uh, through marketing, um, and through, you know, I think it's actually really a powerful thing. This is a mix of listeners, right, from my background in grief and mindset and then into entrepreneurship for the last, you know, 7, 8 years or whatever it may be. So we get a little bit of both. But I think whether it's in your personal life or professional life, so often people get attached to. What do I get out of this? What do I— what am I going to get out of this mastermind? Like, what are the deliverables? What am I gonna have this coaching program? Am I gonna X, Y, or Z? For me, all the magic has been, uh, in what I, I didn't anticipate. You know, I always say like the hidden magic or the things that you can't see. Like, sure, you're gonna, you're gonna get this, or you're gonna learn this, or you're gonna get that, but like, what new relationship might you form? What collaboration might happen? What new business partnership might happen? What podcast might you end up on? I didn't think that I'd end up with a handsome guy from one of my decisions.

And it was a poor decision. It was a poor decision on your part.

I know, I know. I came with no refunds though.

I should have read the contract way better.

Um, yeah, and so if you know, I haven't, I haven't introduced you to the audience, but I had a long single streak. Long single streak. It was really a love affair with my whiteboard for a long time. And as my coach, my mindset coach said, Nick cracked the uncrackable. And I don't know if that's true, but maybe. But you certainly could whiteboard circles around me. And I was like—

I don't know about that.

And I was like, oh, this guy can whiteboard.

That's all it took.

This guy can talk funnels.

I mean, you know, put an Expo marker in my hand and a whiteboard, let's go.

I mean, I was weak. I stood no chance. He's cute, he works out, and he can whiteboard.

You know, there's 3 qualities you need, and there you go.

Um, but it's really fun to be able to kind of share like your skill set because you, you are— you have been behind the scenes so so much. And when I got to know you and got to understand your expertise, like, uh, I'd be lying if I said it wasn't something that was very attractive. But, uh, ladies, back off, he's taken. Um, but, you know, it's, it's just something that I am so proud to witness and I'm so grateful to benefit from. Because I think when you surround yourself, whether it's in a mastermind or in a business partnership or in a relationship, uh, but when you surround yourself with people who challenge you to think differently, and who balance your skill sets, that's where the expansion is. I can't go as far on my own in my own life or in business as I can with you, or, you know, what if it might be my team in business or whatever it may be. So thank you.

I—

you're welcome, I guess. But with that too, and speaking of like expansion and complementary skill sets, we both are considered marketers. But we're pretty different.

Yeah, definitely. Like, like you said, uh, you know, you can go, uh, a lot further with kind of, uh, mentors and coaches in your life and people that you lean on, for sure. Um, but yeah, we're the— it's funny, you'll see entrepreneurs and we'll see entrepreneurs in our mastermind, and, uh, I'll talk to, you know, just, um, you know, just at dinner or whatever, and you're like they find out that we're in marketing, right? And they just think, oh, well, I need marketing. And it's such a broad, it's a broad spectrum, broad topic. And I don't think people understand what they're asking for. They just think marketing gets me more products sold, I think, right? And they don't, I remember when I was going through kind of different, some different certifications and whatnot, there was a marketing certification. Yeah, there's like a name. Of course you did. Of course.

Yeah, you have what, 97 of them?

Well, you know, 98, but who's counting? Uh, framed, you know, there was, uh, my mom definitely has them framed. They, they would call them like a full stack marketer, right? Which, what the hell does that mean? Basically a marketer who could kind of do all the things, but All the things include so much, like there's ideation on funnels, the strategy of them, there's landing pages, there's lead magnets, there's product delivery, and then there's social media gets lumped into it, podcasts get lumped into it because it's marketing your brand, right? Branding gets lumped into it, which you speak on all the time, branding, messaging, all that is kind of the marketing thing And what I think so many entrepreneurs get wrong is, especially like small business owners who are really looking to branch out and either hire a marketing agency or get somebody to market for them, is they don't realize it's, it's a million different hats, right? And there's a million different moving parts. There's the operation side, which is the nerdy, the gritty, the implementation. And then there's the design side of different things. And that is more creative and whatnot. And then there's a strategy side, which is more business side of it, right? So all these things kind of have to play hand in hand and really fall under the privy of marketing. Um, but it could— it gets so broad that they think one person can do it all, right? One or two people can just do it all. I need a marketer. And, uh, it's such a broad topic that I think that's where people get screwed up a lot. 100%.

I mean, in my own company alone, I mean, you see it, but I have a head person in charge of landing pages and websites, head person in charge of copy, head person in charge of content creation and design. Those are all really different skill sets. Yeah. And, uh, like, I love— I didn't realize that I was good at marketing because, um, I mean, I've always liked words.

Shocker, you know, I liked words. Yeah, I would like to Words. Words are my favorite.

If anyone doesn't know that reference, would you like to share?

That's Elf. Elf, obviously, because you are just like Elf. Will Ferrell, Elf, all day long. Sugar's my favorite. Laughing. Laughing is my favorite. Hence the laughter here.

A side note, and we'll come back to this. Why I didn't understand that I was good at marketing. But you have an office and you work. You're very focused. Every now and then I come up with a cup of coffee. Anyone seen Elf?

Just sit there. Can I help you?

What are you working on now?

Same thing as 5 minutes ago when he checked on me.

Yeah, uh, sharing, sharing home office is quite the vibe, but it's probably another podcast. Um, I did not realize that I was, um, skilled in marketing because I, I don't have a ton of patience, uh, with detail things. Yeah, right. I can have a lot of patience with emotional things or people's experiences, but the details and the canvas and the visuals and landing pages, I want to throw my computer out the window. But I think my strength in marketing is more the, the creativity and the overall flow, right? And the strategy, um, and, and probably copy, right? And branding.

Yeah, for sure. Like you were saying, uh, we kind of have some different, uh, skills, skill sets, right? But they all are marketing, correct? Right. But we're— we definitely have drastically different skill sets in regard to— I'm more ops focused.

Yes.

Um, So in my world, it— all I think of is immediately when there's a new idea, it's okay, what's needed? It's a landing page, it's a thank you page, it's confirmation. How does that get executed? What forms need to be on there? Uh, what happens, what has to happen, and what automations and triggers have to happen on the back end? And I immediately think of all the different steps for delivery, and that's what I build, and that's what I'm focused on. Whereas, um yourself, you're more brand-oriented, messaging-forward, all that stuff that I'm just not great at. I can write copy and whatnot, but the encompassing your brand and messaging in— into it, uh, just isn't the first natural thing that I think of when I think of that. But again, huge difference— differences, same marketing hat, right?

Same marketing hat. Yeah, yeah. Because when, um—

but what's interesting— sorry, you go— but what's interesting when you say is like you didn't realize you were good at it. If you were just to continue to grind through the shit that I did, right? Like if you just had to continue to make landing pages or continue to like work on automations and zaps and all the mind mapping and how it all, you know, ties in together and actually make the ties, right? You're pretty good at whiteboarding, mind mapping, but like to actually tie the knots of things, right on the backend sucks for you. That's not your patience and that's not your skillset. So if you like were to stay focused on that, you wouldn't realize how good you were at branding, messaging, copy, etc. Right, right. Which would like be frustrating as hell.

Yeah. And we see that a lot. And I mean, we work the, the program, we both have multiple things that we work on, right? Multiple businesses. And, um, you know, technically where our companies are mutual clients, both of our companies have contracted each other for different things, which is kind of funny. Talk about being able to keep on different hats. Yeah, that's fun. But, um, that's fun. Um, but the one in which that we were brought on to work together, um, was interesting because when we first started working together, it was like I was this, like, this fresh ideas and this and that and all these things. And like, your brain would go to that one idea or change is going to have 98 different things in it, right? Oh yeah. And I'm like, well, you turn the fun button off, you know? Yeah. And you're like, I keep shit running.

I mean, I, my sister-in-law Lori and my brother Chris, um, they, like, we had some learning curves for sure when we first started working together, right? Like anybody does. But I would do exactly that. Lori would come to me with some great ideas and it was still very much ideation stage and we were brainstorming and whatnot, right? And I'd go to immediately like, well, this is this is why it won't work, or this is why, you know, I'd shit on it right away. And I'm not proud of that. That's just— I immediately think of how it can be executed and why it wouldn't work and how it'll fall apart, right? Because it's— I need to think about that because then I can make sure it doesn't fall apart, right? And I have to build it that way. Um, whereas she would feel deflated when I would do that, right? So now, uh, we've both learned, like, I don't shit on ideas. Like, oh, we're in the brainstorming time right now. Great, let's brainstorm. Let's come up with great ideas. And I have the freedom to, like, not think about that, right, stuff, right? And, uh, and then she comes to me after she's thought about it a little bit more, uh, with a little more like, okay, this is what we're gonna do. I'm like, great, this is how we're gonna figure it out, right?

You know? Oh, it's so true. I can relate to that.

Yeah, I mean, I'm definitely a stick in the mud when it comes to that shit. Which is— it's not fun. I'm sure people don't like it, but you need both sides.

You absolutely need both sides.

Just like, uh, you know, you've got the visionaries and you need to get the implementers, and these two need to work together, but sometimes they butt heads, right? Yeah, because they're like, oh, just all these fucking ideas, and I'm like, oh, but we just need to, you know, figure out one of them type of thing.

Well, one of the things you do so well that I would love you spoke on this recently at an event, was kind of showing people where they're leaving money on the table, right? And whether you're in here— I mean, everyone in here is running business of some sort, right? Most people that find me, whether, whether it's through the grief or entrepreneurship, they've got something that they're building of their own, right? Whether it's on the side or full-time. And so many people think, well, if I post more content on social media— which I am all for visibility, Like, yeah, yes, you have to be out there and play the game. I just, I won't believe otherwise. Um, but then where is it going? Right. And what are you doing with it? Yeah. Right. Are you driving it to the lead magnet? Are you collecting emails? Okay, well now let's say that you've got the emails and the lead magnet. Well, now are you emailing them? Right. Okay. Now let's say they buy something, then what are they doing? So can you speak into just maybe a couple of the, a couple of the things that you might encourage someone to look at? And be like, oh, am I, am I doing this for my business?

Oh man, that's a lot.

I know, that was like a 45-minute keynote you just did.

That you question— that your question was about 45-minute question. Shocker. Uh, yeah, no, there's— I mean, take that back, cut that, cut that part. Um, yeah, what I see a lot is Random posting on social. Let's start like kind of top of funnel first, right? I see entrepreneurs just need eyeballs and they want to sell something. So it's just random posting on social, right? With no ideation, no thought of what am I talking about? What am I gonna be driving to, right? This is Yearzone Geniuses. What is the social messaging and branding that I'm talking about and driving to Even if it's, even if I'm not saying, hey, go here, right? You're priming them. You're priming them. You're talking about problems, you're talking about solutions, you're talking about things that are happening in your industry, whatever it is. If it's the fitness industry, the cooking industry, the business industry, the real estate, whatever, right? You're talking about the problems that come up, and then you're also talking about the solutions, which you happen to have, or a piece of a solution that you can drive to, right? So that's kind of top of funnel thinking about socials. Next step is driving to that lead magnet, right? And, uh, I mean, we just did a 3-day training on— I know, right? So this could, this could go on forever.

So good. But, um, and that training was a Mentor Collective— I don't know why I'm leaning in. I don't need to be leaning in right now. Yeah, he said, Melissa, don't lean in.

Yeah, I know. And for the people listening in their cars, all they're going to hear is a deep voice and a really squeaky loud voice now. Yes.

And your cackle. But, um, I just want to pause at that 3-day lead magnet training that we did was in the Mentor Collective Mastermind. Yeah, right. So if people are like, well, how do I go and get this done? Like, uh, send me or Nick a message. Yep. I'll link it in show notes, but you've got to scope out Mentor Collective Mastermind for sure.

Yeah, yeah. Great mastermind that, uh, we're a part of, kind of coaches in. I help build, uh, and then I helped a little bit. You helped a ton too. That's how we met. Absolutely. Exactly. And now look at you. Exactly. And here we are.

You didn't see that in the contract.

But yeah, so it's a great mastermind for entrepreneurs who are doing $50,000, $100,000 up to about $400,000 or $500,000. It's a great container for them. They get access to a bunch of coaches and stuff like that. But yeah, that's where we did that training for the 3-day lead magnet training. Yeah. And so that's where the first step I see a lot of people get wrong is even having a lead magnet. Right. Right. So many times they just drive to their website and it's a newsletter or no pop-up or no way of getting their email. And like, hear this, if this stat doesn't freak you out, that of your first-time visitors to your website, 90% to 98% will bounce and never return. Never.

Return.

98%. Up to 98% will never return. Wild. So think about all the effort that people put into socials, driving them to, um, their websites. Hey, check it out, go here, click here, et cetera. Come find me. Right. And when new visitors see their page or land on that page, whatever, whatever page you're driving to, 98% of them bounce and will never return. Mm-hmm. So how do you, how do you, um, overcome that? Or at least start to tip the scales in your favor, right? Pop-ups, things that are enticing, forms, all driving to a lead magnet, something free, right? People call it an opt-in, lead magnet, they're all kind of the same thing, right? So having that, and also your socials need to drive to something. Don't just drive them to your homepage, right, unless your homepage executes that. But very rarely are you ever driving to your website's homepage. It's stupid. Right. Because there's no specific call to action on a homepage typically. It is more of an about me page, right? With maybe some journeys and different things that customers can take. But there's 70 different things that they can click on from your homepage that you're just gonna, they're just gonna lose interest and bounce, right? So driving to a lead magnet, capturing some of that audience and recapturing some of that audience that was gonna bounce and never return anyway, right? So this should be a high value or a premium perceived high-value free thing that they receive. And we've all opted in for these things.

And also, I just wanna say, like, a quick, easy win. Yes, yeah, it should be a specific, quick, easy win. Yesterday, Mentor Collective Mastermind, somebody asked me to, lovely woman, asked me to review her lead magnet, and it was like a thesis paper. So why is that a mistake? Tell the people.

Well, so, that's such a great point, is like, it should be a quick win that they're experiencing. So the example I like to use is like, if I was a trainer, right?

And, uh, we got some throwback videos.

No, we do not have throwback videos. Those are non-existent. Those are hidden and have burned. Those are on tape decks because I'm old and they've been burnt. You are old. Okay, so the reason you don't want to— you don't— reason you want the lead magnet to be specific and quickly consumed is, I mean, it's twofold. Uh, one of them is Uh, when they feel that quick win, you want them to feel that quick win and experience it from you. They're going to be more inclined to buy something from you, right? Because in my— in their mind, it's like, oh, if this free something got me results that quickly, imagine what their paid stuff could do. That's the idea that you want to convey in your, in your lead magnet, right? The other reason you don't want it to be long is it takes time to consume it. Right. So here's the problem. Uh, 20, uh, 20-course ebook, right. Or whatever, 20, uh, 20-module e-course, right. As a free opt-in or a super long 40, 50-page workbook as a free opt-in. Those are nice. They have high value, but the problem is Most people will not go through it all, right? The vast majority will not make it to module 2. So why is that a problem? Well, the next email you send them that says, hey, buy my shit, what's gonna happen?

I haven't even gone through this yet.

I haven't even got through this yet. Or better yet, oh, it— their product didn't work for me. Not even thinking that No, they didn't work the product. It's their product didn't work for me. I didn't get the result that they promised, so screw them. When it even— it's not your— it's not even your fault, right? It's they didn't get through the thing that you gave them because they probably would get the intended result, right? But they just didn't get through it. So they associate it with your company not delivering on a promise, and so why would they buy anything, right? So quick specific bite-size win. I'm talking they should learn it in 5 minutes or less.

I love how you snap like that, right?

So good. Thank you. I went to snapping class. I've been certified in snapping as well.

Yeah, you also, um, and educated me that I have ADHD, by the way. Yes, you do.

Yeah.

Um, okay, so you're like, and we refocus, and we refocus.

So now you've You've got social media. Next step down is that relationship change into a lead magnet, right? So now you have the ability to follow up with them. That's why lead magnet is so important. Social media, you're hoping that they see your stuff, right? When, uh, 1% of your followers will actually see your stuff, your posts. So small right now.

So when you think about that, though, we can help you with that at Brand Lab.

Absolutely. You guys do an amazing job with the organic and reach and really re-engaging customers and whatnot. Um, but yeah, the problem with that is now you don't have— when you don't have their email, their phone number, you have to hope that this platform that you're on happens to show it to them. You have to hope that they happen to be on at the same time that this platform is showing it, right? And they're not scrolling by and forgetting about it. So that's where that lead magnet relationship really changes with a prospect. And then the next thing is they go from lead magnet or really most, what I see most entrepreneurs doing is going from social to buy my $10,000 e-course, right? That is like, hey, I am, you know, nice to meet you to let's get married and plan our, you know, kids' names, right? Little quickly, right? So the problem is you skipped steps in between. It's, that's the, like, 'cause we're all human to human. You say this all the time. Marketing, entrepreneurship is just human to human, right?

Yeah, humanship.

It's just humanship. So we can't forget that humans work very similarly in the way that we want to be sold to.

I wasn't ready yet. It takes steps. To buy from you for a while.

Right, exactly. It takes steps, right? So let's go to the next step. After that lead magnet, after that kind of, coffee, or after you get the phone number, right? Now it goes to a coffee date, right? If we're, if we're making this like kind of relationship steps to kind of make it easy to understand, then it goes to a coffee date. So what is that? It's a low-ticket product or service that you can offer up to your prospect. And the idea is that it's a compelling low-ticket offer that turns them from prospect into a customer, right? Different names for this entry point offer, tripwire. The buzz right now is what?

Low ticket.

Low ticket. Everyone's discovering this low ticket.

Yeah, it's a rebranded, by the way, rebranded tripwire.

Yeah, so low ticket.

They got a good PR agency.

And well, here's the thing, and it works. It works. Right, it works for a number of reasons. A, this is, well, I'll kind of finish what it is. It's that low-ticket entry point offer where even if it sucks, they only spent $7 on it. They spent $47 on it. Like to make an analogy, this is, uh, like I said, in the relationship, this is we're getting coffee, it's $7. And if the date sucks, we just part ways. No big deal. It's easy. It's low risk, right? These are the candy bars in the checkout aisle, right? That it's just an impulse buy type of idea.

I'm starting to wonder if you like whiteboarded and funneled our relationship now.

Listen, I don't disclose my talents here, so that's a trade secret. Sorry. But yes, it's all been—

yeah.

OK. It's laid out perfectly. KPIs and all. Oh, KPIs and all. So what is this entry point offer kind of look like? This is a fraction or a splinter of your core offer is the idea there. So what can you splinter off of your core offer to, uh, to kind of make that relationship change and for them to become a prospect into a customer? That's the idea of that. Yep.

Oh, that's so good. And I think what's really important though is like helping people understand, and then you, you progress more. And this is, this is stuff we'll be talking about. We have a free event coming up. Um, we'll be breaking down kind of these things, but also cart bumps are a big one. Yep. You know, we're not gonna break that down here. Yeah, but I think also understanding cart bumps, retention.

Yeah, these are just like the first few steps in your funnel, right? Um, the, the next few are— I'm not— don't need to get them because like I said, we've been— I can go into this for hours, right? Um, but the next one is like, now it's your core offer. What is your main core product? Now it's time to offer that up, right? After that, after the coffee date, now it's maybe dinner, right, is the idea. So what is that core offer that you have? That's the time to start offering that up. And then the essential or the upsells, the cross-sells, things like that, right? So these are additional cart bumps like you mentioned. These are additional margin, these increase your margin a little bit more on the average order basket, right? Or the lifetime value of a customer. So that's the idea with these, upsells, cross-sells, additional products that are add-ons or complementary to your core offer.

Yeah, a couple things you and I talk about a lot. Um, one, I think this could feel overwhelming for somebody listening. Um, so one thing at a time, truly. Absolutely.

One thing at a time.

Absolutely. So important. Um, and, and secondly, you don't have to reinvent the wheel every day on social media.

Nope.

Or in your emails. Like, there are ways in which you can repurpose. Um, it also, if you have a different message out every single day, people aren't even seeing it. Yep. So you have to be more redundant than you even realize. And there are ways you can simplify, right? With systems and with operations and with AI and, and that. So, um, you know, you know, I'm not like a big AI person. I don't understand it that well. Um, but that is a tool, you know, people can use.

Absolutely. Yeah, that's a big thing is when you kind of— especially entrepreneurs, new entrepreneurs, when they look at what's needed to really execute well and make a good solid business, it feels overwhelming, right? And, uh, that's the whole idea of like our masterminds, for instance, is breaking it down for them, making it easy to understand, as well as having them meet other people who are right along in, in the trenches with them, right? I don't know about you, but we hear— I hear all the time is like I feel alone. My friends and family don't understand what I do, right? They don't understand. They have a 9-to-5 job. They go out and drink after work. It's just happy hour, right? And they don't understand my struggles. I mean, countless times that's the issues that we hear all the time. It's not just how do I sell more product and stuff, but it's they don't understand my struggles. And so that was one of the glaring things that we wanted to help with was getting other entrepreneurs together and being able to soundboard off of each other with support, with coaches and whatnot, but being able to kind of just not feel like they're alone anymore, right?

Totally. And the toll that takes on you when you do feel alone. Yep. Because entrepreneurship is already a roller coaster.

It's already a roller coaster. It's already lonely. Yeah.

Yeah. And then so compounding that, you know, rather than alleviating that And truthfully, I mean, we've talked about this in many capacities, but that idea that we have to do it all by ourselves is not actually like our growth and possibility voice. It's our ego. Yeah. And it's societal programming that says like, you have to do this all on your own. Yeah. You know?

Yeah. That pressure. Yeah, there's this pride of like, I can do it all myself. And we, you know, we kind of, our ego says, oh, I've got a busy calendar. How many times do you ask people, oh, how you doing?

I'm busy.

Mm-hmm. And I think we're starting to break through that as a badge of honor, um, the more we talk about it. But yeah, we're both hella busy. But also, what can you do to change that, right? 100%. And part of it is getting mentorship, getting coaching, getting, getting around people who've been there, done it, that you can lean on and ask for advice. Yeah, right.

Yeah, I mean, I can honestly trace back from different masterminds my book publishing contract, this podcast, you. So they all didn't turn out great, but you know, some of my closest friendships, a number of clients, a number of people I've hired. And all from those places that, like, I knew, you know, that, that I was able to trust and open up and, like, really evaluate how people were showing up beyond just social media, you know? Yeah, just my thoughts.

Yeah, it's, uh, it's a huge, huge win when you can find other people that are doing what you're doing and it's, uh, who've been there before. Yep. And can help you see the path, help you not step in the shit that they stepped in, right? Because they know where it is. Right? It's such a huge, um, benefit and advantage. And you're gonna go faster. You're gonna go faster and further, right?

You're gonna avoid lighting money on fire. Absolutely. Like, exactly.

Oh my God, I've— yeah, we've definitely made huge mistakes. Huge mistakes. $10,000 to $40,000 mistakes, right? And just lit money on fire. And had we just thought about it, asked about it, reached out to a couple more people. Hey, what do you think of this? What do you think of that? It would have, it would have saved us a lot of heartache and annoyance and madness and whatnot, for sure.

Yeah, yeah, 100%. Okay, so I want to be mindful of your time, but I have just a couple more questions here. Yeah, preguntas. Um, so you have been around some of the biggest names, uh, biggest players in the industry. All, you know, globally. Like, you've been around a lot. What is something that you see as a common characteristic or trait in the most successful people? Oh, I didn't prep you for that one.

I did not. This was not in the email.

It was not.

In fact, I did not get any email. I just was told I'm coming here. Um, you know, I don't email common, um, Common traits amongst winning entrepreneurs. Oh man, I keep harping on it. I feel like I'm just a broken record, but like mentorship, coaching, finding that map, you know, and having someone walk you through it. Um, just getting help and swallowing your ego, swallowing your pride, and just asking for help. Um, you know, there's— and hiring the right people, right? Leaning on the right people who've done what you want to do and, uh, finding mentorship, right? Uh, finding the right strategy, finding that circle that, you know, they say a rising tide lifts all boats, right? And it's, it's an analogy for a reason. Because all these people that I see, uh, that have kind of risen up together are all the big names that we all talk about now. The top 10 podcasts— and I'm not going to talk about any names because it sounds so stupid and it's like, oh, look at me, right? But it's like, the top 10 podcasts are people that we've all known, we've worked with, um, we can lean on or call or text, um, You know, because— especially because my brother and his wife had really leaned in 10 years, 15 years ago and joined a mastermind. Yep. Right, where all these people met and became friends and would lean on each other and text when shit hit the fan. Yep. And now it's like, oh, how do you know so-and-so? How are you friends with him? Yep. How do you know her? Right? It's, oh well, we've known each other for 10 years and we go way back. We've built our businesses when we were all making, you know, $100 grand a year together. And that's, that's probably one of the most common themes that I've seen is, um, people finding others to be in their corner with them and to be in the trenches with them. And you see it all, you see them all rise together.

Oh, that's so good. That is so good. Well, I want to let people know where they can learn more about you, your work, the challenge, our masterminds. But, um, you know, are we, are we going to do a whiteboarding, uh, weekend in like Tulum and have an in-person mastermind?

Oh wow, put me on the spot here. Uh, you know, maybe we'll have something to, to offer people. Yeah, I think it'd be good.

That sounds so fun. I definitely didn't prepare people.

No, you didn't.

Roll the tapes, we got it, folks. Um, and then, you know, outside of that, like, what are you the most excited about that you're creating or building right now?

Um, well, we got this challenge coming up that you mentioned that's going to be super exciting, super fun. So we're going to, uh, 3, 4 days over 3 or 4 days is going to be a free challenge for entrepreneurs who really want to be able to kind of peek behind the curtain. You know, we want to show them some of the different tips and tricks that we've been using. Um, That's one of the things that we always do with our communities is we just kind of show them what we're doing. And it's, you know, they're really surprised when they come in. They're like, oh, you're just telling us the truth? The truth? Like, you're just being transparent on the numbers? You're being transparent on how much it sucks? You're being transparent on all this? And that's— I don't know. There's enough shit and fluff out there that I think transparency and honesty and integrity wins, right? So the challenge that we're doing is gonna be like a 3 or 4 day challenge really designed for entrepreneurs to take a peek into the systems and the flow and the strategy and the mentorship and really be able to grow their businesses. And we're gonna give them some of the different tools and whatnot where they're gonna be able to come in, tune in, and really learn from our coaches and mentor collective, which is cool, right? So it's not just gonna be me and Chris, um, and Lori, but they're going to be able to learn from some of our coaches, which you're in, right, from, from them and be able to really get different bite-sized pieces of knowledge that are going to be needle movers to their business. And the cool thing about having all these different experts together is I don't have to be the expert. Chris doesn't have to be the expert, right?

Well, no one can be the expert in everything. Exactly. Yeah. And I give a lot of credit to Chris and Lori for that because they have enough brainpower and connections to have been able to say, Hey, we're putting out this mastermind. Come learn everything from us. But they said, hey, we're actually going to pay a lot of other experts. Yeah, we're going to pay them. Yep. We're going to take less money because we want you to get that much more value. Yeah. And we're going to have you not only get access to Laura and Chris, but to our entire team.

Yep.

Which we're part of.

Yeah, exactly. So check out the challenge. You know, if you're a beginning entrepreneur and I'm beginning where you're just like starting off, but anywhere in, you know, the $200,000, $400,000, $500,000 annual range, more, we're gonna be giving tangible tips and takeaways during this challenge, right? And it's gonna be from different coaches as well who are, it's their zone of genius. Amazing marketing people, amazing salespeople. That's me. That's you, right? We've got legal, we got a tech and AI whiz who I promise you guys, if I told you who he's worked with and products he's built for people, you'd be like, oh, I use them. I know who that is. I use that product. So it's these caliber of people that you're gonna get to learn from for free during this challenge, which is really, really cool. Like, they're giving up their time to be part of this, and it's gonna be super impactful.

So you guys, if you are— stay tuned on the whiteboarding weekend. That's gonna be down the pipeline. We'll have to funnel that one out.

That's what we do.

On the weekends, we're gonna just whiteboard and funnel. Exactly. But stay tuned for this challenge. Definitely you want to scope it out. If you are a $500K entrepreneur and above, just shoot me a DM on Instagram or Nick a DM on Instagram and let us know. Pretty much full. And I am just gonna go on record. I am still, I'm a paying member and client 'cause I believe in it so much. I could have said like, no, you know, like I'm good. Nick, just tell me all the things.

Nope, trade secrets.

I paid my invoice, right? But really for Mentor Collective Mastermind, that $50K to $500K entrepreneur. Uh, it is very applicable to all levels. Check out the challenge. Yep. nickharter.com.

nickharter.com/challenge. Yep. nickharter.com/challenge. We'll put in the notes. Easy as possible for you.

Yeah. Anything else you want to tell the people?

No, I'm just— I'm really excited for everyone who's either part of our challenge, part of our community, has been or will be. Like, I just love teaching on these, these types of things, and I'm such a, a workshoper that I, I hope they got something out of this. And, uh, honestly, it's, it's hard. So find somebody, whether it's us, whether it's someone else, just find somebody that they can lean on and to get some mentorship from afar, from close, hire a coach, something. Because I promise that's going to be the, the secret to really excelling and just going so much faster and so much further down the road in their businesses.

Well, Nick, Thank you so much for being on the podcast. Very impromptu, very last minute. Yeah, uh, podcast is— me too— podcast is Scar Tissue, which is rooted in my story. Um, and I've told you this before, but we'll go on record. I'm very confident, no doubt in my mind, that my daughter Layden led me to you. Um, and so there's always those— even if we don't want it— there are those unwelcome gold and gifts, you know, within our paths that are shaped by some of our biggest challenges and heartaches. So I'm so glad Layden led me to you. I'm I'm glad that people got a taste of your magic. You are the most integrity-driven, intelligent, talented, pretty fucking funny, powerful— I know I'm saying all this on record. I know we're gonna cut this one, Pascal. This is being recorded. Yeah, powerful, just gifted humans. I know. And, uh, we're gonna get you back on the show.

Okay, thank you.

I appreciate it. Appreciate you.