Episode 5: Business After Breakdown with Angie Lee

If you could go back in time, would you have had it not happen? Do you genuinely believe now, being over a decade from the experience you went through, do you feel that it was necessary on your spiritual path to go through? I don't know.

No one's ever asked me this question.

Life is going to keep lifeing. You cannot put your joy on pause. It's like if we keep putting our joy on pause, we're never really fully living. Then buckle up, because you don't know.

What'S going to happen, but also open up because you don't know what's possible. This podcast, this book, these relationships, the speaking that I'm doing is actually, like, my soul's purpose. All right, everybody. We literally just talked for, like, over an hour.

Yeah, it was.

Wow.

It was actually really powerful. We just talked.

Really powerful.

Yeah, it's like real human woman conversations about grief in life and seasons of life. So good. Good stuff.

Well, and I appreciate you because that's something that I've always been really drawn to, is the real.

Yeah.

You know, and it's so funny because here we are recording in your home, and we're actually.

My friend. We're actually at my friend's house in her little lounge room because we're staying at her place for the summer. And. Yeah, we're just, like, on a cozy little couch. Yeah. With, like, a bed. Actually. We're actually on a bed together. We.

We are literally recording on a bed together.

And I'm, like, sinking in. It's so cozy, though.

And I keep, like, repositioning the pillows, so painting the picture for you all. I was going to attract in the wrong crowd.

Andrew. We're in a bed together.

But, you know, the last hour, we really were just having, like, real deep conversations, you know, and what we were. Something we were talking about before was like, you know, not the performative at the surface level.

Yeah.

And so what initially drew me to you and I want to take the people back, was that. And you have the ability to translate that. You all are going to hear this in this episode no matter what we talk about. I don't even know what we're talking about right now.

Yeah, it's going to come out. Right.

But it's. It will be real, you know, and it's just going to be so human. And that's just something you've always been a stand for. So I just want to acknowledge you for that.

Oh, that's so sweet. Yeah. I feel like I. Early on when I put myself online, I made a commitment to myself that I would be all of me unapologetically. And that includes the goofy, the weird, the wild, the not following the rules. I didn't like how every other girl in the online space, I felt like not every girl, but a lot of them, I felt like were. There was this idea that you had to look or act a certain way, and it felt very performative. And I just always had this feeling like, nah, I'm gonna be the weird girl. I'm gonna. I'm gonna do this completely different. And that ended up being really a good decision. Say the most exhausting thing you can do is not be yourself. And it's really exhausting to be inauthentic. So I try to be who I am online. I try to be the same person offline as I am online, and that saves me a lot of energy and time.

Yeah, yeah. And it saves you a lot of attracting the wrong people in.

That's true, too. Yeah, Yeah.

I think that's so important. You know, we have such a range of the community that this podcast is for.

Right.

We have a lot of entrepreneurs. We have a lot of people navigating grief challenges. But I always say that, like, what I learned in grief has supported me in entrepreneurship so much.

Wow.

You know, so everyone, you know, tuning in, you're going to take away different things, but just look at how these can connect. Because even in my book Scar Tissue, I have a chapter called authentically grieving and how you need to grieve in a way that's authentic to you. And so when you and I were kind of talking about different ways that we've processed things, and you were saying, like, what has supported you that wouldn't support me. And I think it's so important in life that we don't try and do things the way other people are doing them.

Wow. I never thought about authentically grieving. Holy shit. Yeah. Yeah. Because I was telling you, when I'm in that season or the season I'm in now with processing some grief, it's like. Like raunchy hip hop classes is like, the thing that gets me out of my head. I'm having so much fun. I'm in my body, which we know is one of the best ways to process emotions. And I'm so good. Like, that's a hit of medicine for me, where if I just do talk therapy, it's too much up here. It's just still too in the head. It's too much in the head. I gotta be here. It's working out. And it's dancing.

Yeah.

Are the only things that really help me. It's. It's the body and I think it's God's way being like, Angie, you think all day, you think you're gonna think your way out of this? Fuck. No, you're not. Like, you just gotta feel. You gotta go have fun. And so, yeah, I found hip hop dance class and thought it would just be some twerking, but little did I know it was literally the medicine I needed. And that's why I created the event Recess last month here in Austin. Because I got on stage and I said, I was like, listen, this. This medicine changed my life. And I hope that more women get into it because it was everything for me.

I can't wait to see how that grows, you know?

Yeah.

Like Mission and Recess and that's such a great name. I mean, you are a branding, marketing, like, master.

It was fine. I will see if we do it again. But it was just. I mean, I was like a bucket list thing that I knew I had to do.

Yeah. My coo. I didn't even tell you this. She lives in Austin and she was there.

Wait, what's her name?

Nikki.

Nikki Pepper. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God, that's so cool. Oh, that's so fun. Oh my God. Yeah. Oh my God, that's so cool. Yeah, it's. It was. It was lit. It was so different than any event I've ever done because most of my events are about female entrepreneurship. And I said to Melody, my one of my besties and the girl that I hosted it with, a dance teacher, I was like, let's put on an event that's literally just. It's essentially somatic, even though we didn't use that word, but. Cause you know, it's super woo and super Austin. So I was like, I don't want to be another, like, somatic dance party where we like, you know, sticky oni eggs up our buttholes under the full moon. But I was like, let's. Let's host an experience that's really fucking real. And it's fun and it's women getting together and we are listening to 90s rap and we're moving our bodies, we're sweating, we're crying, we're screaming, we're dancing, and it's just real. And then at the end, we all sat down and we share things we were going through. And a lot of it was women who were struggling with their careers, their identity, a lot of loss, fertility, motherhood stuff. I mean, it went so fun and Crazy to really, really deep. And it was this beautiful roller coaster ride that we all went on. And it was so cool because I was like, wow, all of us are using dance in a different way. Like, we are all using the same medicine, but to get us through whatever season that is that we're in in life. And that's what I love about dance. I'm like, dude, it's been around since, oh, I don't know, forever, literally. As humans, we've been dancing since the beginning of time and everybody can do it. You don't have to be a professional dancer to be a dancer. Just you moving your body makes you a dancer. And so, yeah, and I think it's one of the healthiest things women can do is move their bodies because we're all so stiff and in our head. And so, yeah, it's. It was fun, it was playful, it was cool. And I'm just so glad I did it because it was. It was on my bucket list and we kept putting it off and then I was like, screw it, let's just do it.

Yeah, it's funny because I think we should talk about bucket list a little bit. But you also were talking about bingo card.

Bingo card, yeah.

And so Angie and I, when we were just like, you know, flowing before this, you know, we just said something along the lines of like, that wasn't on my life bingo card.

Yeah. I don't know. I saw it on TikTok. I think that's the new term, the Gen Z. I think the Gen Z kids are using it. I don't know. It's like, that wasn't on my bingo card this year to meet Brad, you know, and you're like, oh, I get what they mean. It's like you're like, what you thought would happen. Yeah.

Like the things you're checking off.

Yeah, the things you're checking off. And so I think that, yeah, my early 30s, a lot of things happened on my bingo car that I did not have planned. And so I think it's just a reminder that, yeah, life is never what we plan for it to be. So just buckle up and make the best of it. And your business too. You got to learn how to ride the frigging waves.

100. But if you think about it, we're sitting here because of things that were never on my bingo card. Right. So that's like, honestly what I was thinking about. Like, wow, this, like that, that whole theme. I didn't know it was a tick tock. I don't even go on TikTok.

Yeah, I know. Like, you don't even go on TikTok. You don't know this.

I don't know. I don't know. Like when you said, I'm like, wow, Angie should trademark that.

Oh, no, I think some 12 year old named Katie on TikTok already trademarked it. Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. Oh, gosh. But I was thinking about that, like, wow. You know, in. I want to kind of share the evolution of, like, how we've known each other.

Yeah.

You know, of our individual bingo cards.

Right.

And how the listener and anyone like, tuning in, like, really, like, ground into the idea of, yeah, buckle up. Because you don't know what's gonna happen, but also open up because you don't know what's possible. It's like both sides of it. Like, it could be even better than you ever imagined or it could be the most beautiful connection or relationship that you randomly make in some way that impacts your life massively. And so like every morning when I get up and this has helped me counter my grief. Curious as to your thoughts, because in the beginning it was like, how could this happen to me? Of course. Right.

That's always the question, how could this happen to me? Or why is this happening to me? Right. Yeah.

But then I really tried to shift into what's going to happen for me today. What's going to be something that I can't predict or see today that's going to be in the best way.

Oh, magic.

Yeah.

You started to see magic. Yeah. Wow.

Or wanted to see magic.

Yeah. Well, I think it's really. I don't have to say this, and it's crazy because I feel like we don't have to go too much into this if you don't want, but it's like any woman who's gone through something really, really hard and is on the other side and has the perspective of it now, they always say, dude, I'm actually so glad I went through that because. And then fill in the blank. So that's why when I asked you, I was like, if you could go back in time, would you have had it not happen? Or do you truly actually believe it brought you enough. Enough lessons that it was, I don't want to say, worth it? That's not the right word. Do you genuinely believe now being, you know, over a decade from the experience you went through, do you feel that it was necessary on your spiritual path to go through? I don't know. Insert in. Do you know what I'm asking you?

I do and no one's ever asked me this question.

Are you serious? Wow. Because you can straight up right now say no. Actually, I would. That was not necessary for my life path. I would go back and not have that happen. Or some people are like, mostly, you hear. Even the most up people will be like, no. Because that's why. Because it taught me this. Which then brought me to that, which then. Now I'm doing this. And I would have never met. Like, it's crazy. The butterfly effect from even really hard shit. Yeah. So I'm curious if you were really honest, your thoughts on that or if you're like, no, it's bullshit.

You know? Different version of Melissa would have said, it's bullshit. And because they called. Thank you for asking, by the way. I fucking love this about you. You know what I mean?

That's a really. I don't know. I was like, if you don't want to answer, you don't have to. But I feel like I'm very, very curious just because I'm a woman going through my own hard thing right now. And I want to hear. Because I want to be in 10 years. I'm curious what I'm going to say to somebody. Yeah.

If I had ever been given a choice to make a decision, would you take your life with Layden on the path that you were on.

Yeah.

Or your life now going through what you've gone through? I would choose on a conscious level, Layden, that version of Melissa had not gone through what she went through. So she wasn't like, I wasn't. I didn't have the wisdom, the groundedness. I didn't have, like, the scar tissue. Right. So if I was consciously choosing, I would choose laid in. Because I can't. Not with the love that I felt there.

Like, want.

Like every day I want to. I wonder what she would look like, what would her voice sound like, you know, what would she be doing on TikTok? Would she be teaching me? Bingo. You know what I mean? But do I believe that this was how it was supposed to evolve for my soul, my karma, my mission? I actually do, like. And her case was termed a catastrophe medically. So for me to get there and not living like this was a catastrophe. This was never supposed to happen. Was a lot of spiritual work and, like, just surrendering. Because the version of Melissa that is sitting here now is so different just from just the level of work that's been done that I didn't know I was living a life of should.

Right.

We talked about that. I was Living just like a checklist life, a life of should, following the boxes. And like, I didn't have a huge sense of self worth. And when I was destroyed, I had to put myself back together. But when you do that, you can actually do it. Like, think about it. I'll just say this briefly and I don't want to get into your stuff.

Yeah. But no, I love this.

Okay.

Even put this on. Well, it is going to be on your show. But I was going to say this is like, really? Yeah, I think it's juicy for your people to hear this. This side.

Yeah. There's this. This term called kintsugi in Japanese culture.

Do you know it? Yeah, I've heard of this. Okay.

So if you take those beautiful, like Japanese ceramic vases. Yeah. And a lot of them would get smashed.

Right.

So if it gets smashed or broken. Well, then they began filling the cracks with gold, and the term was called kintsugi. And those actually became more highly valued.

Oh, my God. I don't know why this makes me cry.

I know, I know.

Yeah.

Then the non. I'm. Look, I'm Goosebumps. And you're not a Goosebumps girl. I am.

I cry.

I cry.

I'm like. I cry all the time.

Yeah.

That's how I emote.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, yeah. That I really identified with that. And so I do think that, like, I was a vase that was really shattered and I've worked really hard. I don't want anyone to hear this. Is that going through a hard thing doesn't mean you're going to grow. It means that you can choose into it, but it's active. Like, the amount of work that I've done in therapy and personal development and the willingness I've been to call out my ego and my things that don't serve me. And like, I. But you have to be willing to do it and have support, you know? So I just. I don't want to give anyone the misconception, like, go through something horrible and you'll grow. You know what I mean? Because, like, that's actually not it. Because you see people go on the other end.

Right.

You see people who are completely destroy their lives.

Right.

You do have a choice. And it's not easy and it's been the hardest choice, but it makes me so proud of it and it makes me value myself so much more. So I believe that this podcast, this book, these relationships, the speaking that I'm doing is actually like my soul's purpose. And I don't think I was on the right path. And I believe that, like, I had sign after sign from the universe and I wasn't getting it. And I, like, feel like Laden came in to be like, mom, get on the right path. Like, you're not getting it, Mom. Like, how many more signs do you need?

That's what I think. What I can imagine is what day of the week was it that she passed? I'm sure you remember Wednesday. It was a Wednesday. I feel like the woman you were on Tuesday and then who you became that Wednesday from for the rest of your life as a different person.

100. Everyone asked if the moment she took her last breath was the worst moment of my life. It wasn't because she was still in my arms. The worst moment in my life was waking up the next day and it was real and being like, what do I do?

Yeah.

Because I had spent nine months carrying her and four months caretaking for her. And so I very quickly built an identity as a mom. And every morning it was, you wake up. What is laid in need? Every single morning. And now I wake up and I'm like, I don't have to be at work right now. I don't have a daughter to take care of. What do I. What the fuck do I do?

And, like, grief, love, space, but because you need it. But then you also, you know, Melissa.

Didn'T love the space.

Yeah, the worst thing, it's like catch 22. It's like, yes, sit and process. Of course, especially in the beginning. But then also, yeah, it's like, then you can hear the clock ticking and then you're alone with your thoughts. And then it's, oh, my God, I just can't even imagine. But I think that's interesting and important to tell women is like, who I was on that Tuesday and who I was on that Wednesday. I don't know if you mentioned that in your book or Two completely different people. Because me in such a different way. Not obviously to that severity of that same experience. But I. In my book, the waiting room that I'm writing is. I'm not the same person I was when I walked into the room. Even if you. Someone met me a few years ago, I'm similar, obviously. Still silly. And the same woman in a sense, but also so such a different texture to me. So even girlfriends that I had a few years ago, I'm like, dude, I'm kind of not the same. Because you're meeting a woman now who's gone through grief or pain or just sadness and a lot of up and downs. So it is interesting because I use that analogy. So I wonder if you. You mentioned that or. That's a good way to kind of preface it for women who wouldn't understand it. It's like, oh, I'm a different person than I was on that Tuesday, you know, whatever that exact date was, because it completely changed how you see the world and your life. And I'm sure, like, you wouldn't have been. Yeah. If that wouldn't have ever happened. You. God, it's so crazy how once. Yeah. Small. Not a whole big thing. It changes the trajectory of your entire. How you see stuff. So I just think. I think that's fascinating. That's like, something about humans that I'm like, holy.

You have such an ability to pull things out, you know, and kind of like, see how it can serve.

Yeah.

You know, especially women.

Ye.

And so I am so excited. And because you. You just dropped it. I'm not into our story, but we're just not there yet.

We'll get there. Yeah. Like, so part of me's like, I should share the title. But I'm like, why not? I think it's. Yeah, I like it, and it means a lot to me, and I think it's just. It's a good. Anytime I use that word, women are like, oh, yeah. Like, that's how I feel right now about, you know, waiting for my guy or whatever. So no one talks about. In life. They don't talk about the painful liminal space. They call it a liminal space where you're in the. In between.

What is it?

It's called liminal space. It's basically, you're not who you were, and then you're not at the other point yet. So you're in this holding phase in the middle.

Wow.

It's really awkward and painful. Yeah.

I've never heard that before.

Yeah. The liminal space. It's like you're in the tunnel. Like, I see the light at the end, but, like, I can't believe I'm still on this tunnel. Like, Right. You know, and so a lot of people just talk about the hard thing or the good things or they don't talk about these awkward in betweens in life. Yeah. And. Yeah, it's just. It's just crazy. So. But, you know, I. When I shared one reel on it, I had such cool responses already. So I'm really excited because it gave me some interesting ideas of how I could take it into many different directions.

So I was speaking with the one recently who referenced it as the messy middle.

Yeah. You know the messy middle. Yeah. To me, the waiting room is like, no, I love so much.

Yeah.

It's just a very powerful visual of how it feels. And what's interesting is a woman told me. She's like, hey, I saw your reel on it. I just want you to know I'm a mom. I'm in my 60s now. My kids are all grown up, and now I'm going through my own. I'm back in the waiting room again because I got to figure out who the am I now.

I have kids.

Yeah. So she's like, I'm gonna say this with love. And I. I received it. Well, I knew what she meant. She was like, this isn't the first time this is gonna happen to you, honey. Like, get comfortable in waiting rooms. Like, learn that that's pretty much lots of life.

Yeah.

And that's when it hit me like, oh, I gotta figure this out. Yeah. Because if I keep only being happy when I get the thing I want, dude, a lot of life is waiting and not having that. So what am I gonna do? Just waste half of my life? Mm. Holy. So, like, even having women write me already, I'm like, oh, wow. So, like, I'm gonna add that in the book.

And, like, so good.

So I just wanted to apply to a lot of people, just like yours will apply to a lot of different women. Even though it does have an itch, it's like, it kind of. You can find yourself in. In it. So, like, right now, you're. You're in a waiting room 100% to meet your guys. So I want you to be able to read and be like, oh, my God, of course. Go on dates. Of course. Go on the apps. Of course. Do that. Do those things. But, like, fighting for your joy right now as much as you can is, like, not only the most attractive thing, but it's the greatest thing you can do right now because is your other choice to sit around and. Right. Cry about being single. You know what I mean? Imagine. Yeah. Might as well go have a fucking blast, you know, because relationships are great, and they're also fucking hard. And, you know, it's. You get to sleep alone, stretch out. Yeah. There's a lot of. There's a lot of awesome things about being single, too, that we're not supposed to mention in society because it's such the societal pressure. I know. Like, get married enough kids. Get married enough kids. Get married, have kids, or you're not a woman. It's like, I don't know. A lot of friends who were single without kids having a blast, too. So.

Yeah, I know, right?

I'm like, I don't know. We. We've been sold a lie, so. Yeah. It's also the book of, like, a reclamation of, like, womanhood, confidence, I guess, in a bit. So we'll see.

I can't wait for it. No, I think that's. It's so powerful. And, you know, when you were sharing with me, like, the waiting room, it's just. I think so many people listening can relate to that. So how. What, like, what are you waiting for in your life? And then what does it look like if you actually go live your most joy? So. Yeah, you know, thank you for opening up to it because I know you're.

Not, like, fully talking. No, I've actually never shared it yet. Oh, yeah. At all?

No. Did we both just share things we never shared?

I know, it's really juicy. Yeah. I think ultimately what it's really about is if I had to put in just one sentence, stop putting your joy on pause. Just stop putting your joy on pause. Like, life is going to keep life in. You cannot put your joy on pause until you meet Chad, until you have the five kids in the white picket fence, until you finally get that raise at your job. It's like if we keep putting our joy on pause, it's like we're. We're never really fully living, then. Yeah. You know, and I think good things come to us when we're having fun.

Oh, it's so cheesy.

But, like, the vibration of fun is really, really powerful.

No, I completely agree.

Like, anytime I want things, I'm like, wait, how can I just have more fun?

I know, I know.

So, yeah, that's kind of like the Cliff Notes of it.

I can't wait. Thank you for sharing it with us.

Yeah, I was like, I've never shared.

Yeah, no, it's going to be so powerful. And you gu. Make sure you're following Angie. Angie Lee. I will drop everything in the show links, but. And. And just stay tuned for that and just stay tuned for the content she shares because it's so powerful, you know?

Thank you. So powerful. You just make me feel really comfortable to talk about it, I think, because knowing your experience, obviously not the same. I've never experienced it, but I know that it's what you call it, knowing you've gone through that makes me feel safer talking to you because I only want to talk to women about it who've gone through something hard. Yeah. Isn't that interesting something to take away with that. I don't know what that is. It's. Oh, I know that you must feel empathy for women deeper than maybe someone who hasn't. I'm just gonna say it like, I would never go to a therapist who was perfect. I want to go to a therapist who. If you were a fucking therapist, you're like, I lost a child. I'd be like, let's fucking go. Let's talk. Because you understand pain. You actually understand grief. So then when I come to you, even though mine's different and maybe on a scale would say is less it, you at least get me more than someone who's never, ever experienced it. So that's why I think I feel so comfortable talking to you about it. Where most people interview me, it's like, you know, like, they've never really gone through something that painful. So, like, I almost feel like I'm, like, don't feel as safe talking to them.

Oh, wow.

Isn't that interesting?

That is super interesting.

I'm sure that's like. I think that makes sense, right?

Yeah. Well, I think there's maybe. I think both. I'm hearing, like, relatability or is this person gonna judge me? Or, you know, and I think a lot of women can relate to wanting to feel related to and maybe fear, whether it's in our minds or not, that we're being judged for, like, you know, our pain or our emotions or our challenges.

Yeah.

Because social media doesn't show those.

Yeah, Yeah. I think that's what it is. Yeah. I think it's just understanding. I think it's empathy. Yeah. I think we want to talk to people. It's no different than why we have, like, support groups. You know, think about it, like, if you're. If you're a child of, like, parents who are alcoholics or substance abuse or like, whatever it might be, you want to talk to other people who've gone through that because you immediately like, oh, my God, I'm not alone. Right? Oh, my God. Okay. You. You kind of know what this is like. So I think as humans, I think we all just want to know we're not alone. Right?

Yeah. And I. One of the things I'm obsessed with, and when I first met you, and we'll talk about that in a second, but is that. I think that all of these life lessons apply to entrepreneurship.

Oh, yeah.

Like, I literally sat on a call last night. I was guest coaching in the community. I said, you guys, don't be surprised when life lives and if you set your business up in a way that your business closes down every time life, lifes. You're now taking your business on the roller coaster of life, your job. And I actually told them, and maybe it's just the way I look at it. I said, like, you have to look at your business like it's your baby, you know, take care of it. You know, you don't get up in the morning and ever say, like, what's my child gonna do for me today?

Right. You know what I mean?

Like, anyone listening? Do you do that? Like, you don't? And so when I really look at. And maybe it's the way my maternal can express itself, but I really have always looked at, like, my business is like, what. How can I care for it? What does it need from me today? What is it telling me? And like, how am I holding the steady or the frequency? Because it gonna be a roller coaster.

Wow.

Life and business.

I've never thought of it that way.

Really?

Oh, God, no. So that's really cool because I want to think of it that way. So that's really inspiring. Oh, God, no. I've always been like, it's business, business, business. I've never been maternal about business, really. But maybe I have, and I'm just not giving myself credit. I don't know. I like that. The idea that it has a. Is. It's a living, breathing, moving thing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is, right? Money going in, out, clients.

Yeah.

I do feel maternal about my community. And, like, so I guess that's where I kind of do. I'm like, oh, these are women that I feel like are like my sisters. And like, we all hang out and I help, but I want to. I've heard that once before, and I always thought, like, wow, I want to be that person who can feel that and say that. So I need to work on how I can get to that place, because I think that would help me to almost feel a little bit remotivated again. Is like, treat it as if it's like anything that you love and care about. Like, it needs watering and it needs, you know. Yeah. And it needs care. Hopefully it grows up a little bit so you're not changing its diaper forever. But, like. Yeah. I think that there is a beauty to seeing it like that and versus just like, it's business. Right. And maybe that's why people who think of it that way get burned out more because they're just seeing it so. So just like, clinically almost.

I really believe that because people don't believe me that I don't get burned out.

Wow.

And I'm like, I really don't. Like, I love what I do, but it's also the way that I see it, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But that's. It's really interesting because there's this whole. You know, there's all these things on Instagram and these things happening and social media. I don't go on Tik tok. I think I'm too old for it, but.

No, you're not too old. You're just smart. You're not giving your brain rot. Yeah.

No, but thank you. Thank you for saying that. And, you know, I. I do think that to your point, you get your business to grow just like a child, and now it. It's a teenager. It's driving itself.

You know what I mean?

You know, it doesn't need. You don't need to do carpooling all the time anymore. But, yeah, that's really supported me. But there was this huge trend, and I remember seeing one of your posts about it, and I was like, yes, Angie.

Oh, gosh. I think I know which one it is.

Bracing.

I'm like, how do I make content like this every single day? Yeah. Because it keeps going viral. The Soft Girl movie.

Yes.

Yeah. Okay, tell me why, as a consumer, why does that post hit you so hard? I love. Is it because I'm saying out loud what other people are whispering in their heads?

Probably. So I got to figure out the.

Formula because everybody wants this post over and over again. So. Okay.

And. And, you know, you guys, Angie is marketing, like, messaging, branding, just genius and community builder.

Right?

And when you speak into this for women, it has impact, you know? But what I was just laughing at is I'm like, I'm interviewing you, but you keep flipping it back. I know.

I love it, though. It's like a back. And I know. I just have to. I feel like it's like girl chat. I'm like, wait, I have so many questions I want to ask you too. I know.

Oh, we gotta talk about soul life. Oh, my gosh, Clay. I'm staying over.

She's sleeping over.

So Angie posted. You posted on Soft Girl Era, and there was this big movement that was all about, like, I'm in my soft girl era. Like, alignment. It has to feel good. And, like, I was a complete, complete polar opposite. And I'm like, actually, you have to show up, even if it doesn't feel good. But don't force.

But.

You know what I mean? Like, and if it doesn't feel good in your body. Maybe it's because your ego is telling you it's scary because it's new.

Right.

And I love what I do. And I'm obsessed. And soft girl era had me feeling shamed. Like, I remember, like, if you have my Instagram, I remember, like, I'm, like, wearing, like, a tutu, and I'm like.

This is what I'm supposed to do.

Right. You know what I mean? I'm doing this photo shoot and I look awkward because I told you, I don't even like photoshoot photo shoots. Like, it just doesn't feel authentic to me. You know what I mean? Yeah. And they can be. I'm not saying that that's my thing, but I was feeling, and I was struggling with a lot of the women who were coming to me to build their business because they would want me to build them and get them non soft girl era results, but be in their soft girl era. And there's all these things on social media telling them they could do that. And, like, maybe you can get there eventually, but you have to earn it. And so one, it was for my clients, and then two, my own. Like, I just felt like a lot of women in social were kind of making wrong when I'm like, I'm obsessed what I do, and I love it, and I'm grateful. Like, I don't call it work. I call it art, I call it creation, I call it play. And, like, I was kind of feeling like, I don't know, judged or guilty. Anyways.

Yeah, that is why, like, you're doing womanhood wrong. Which, yeah, that's what I hate about the whole. I don't want to say hate, but that's what I don't love about the whole feminine, masculine, soft girl era or girl boss era. Like, they're just more boxes, and it's more nuanced than that. It's not like, okay, I'm a girl boss who's on planes every week giving keynotes, making nine figures, and never see my kids and my husband girlboss hashtag, nine figure launch. Or I'm. Or I'm, you know, frolicking in the fields with my cows and my children breastfeeding, making sourdough and trad wife, and my husband makes every dollar. I don't even make a dollar. Oh, my God, if I make a dollar, Ooh, I'm doing. I'm in my masculine. Oh, no. Oh, no. It's not that polarizing. But social media, listen, it's social media. It knows what it's doing. Social media is literally designed for extremism. What do you think gets more hits? You being in the unsexy middle? No, you being. Yeah, it just doesn't. So unfortunately, all we were seeing, I think after 2020 is a lot of people slowing down a lot because they had to be home. And I think that's great. I think we needed a little bit of a recalibration season. But I don't think it was meant to be come this whole trend now that we monetize. And the irony is a lot of the girls who are really selling this aesthetic or this lifestyle, we're making millions of dollars. So one of the girls, something Ballerina farms, I think her name is. Yeah, Ballerina Farms. The irony is she was showing this very soft life of, you wear dresses and you have at least five children because you must multiply. Right. That's what the Bible says. And which is fine. But I'm like, girl, I, I think I'm one and done or two mags. Like, I, I don't, I don't know. People have eight children, you know, you gotta multiply and make sure you're only cooking with butter. And don't, don't push too hard. Don't have too, don't, don't have anything outside of your children because God forbid, then, then you're not in your mamahood mama bear era. And the reality is this girl is crushing it. She's a full time content creator. She has millions of followers. She has merch affiliate links. I was talking to one of my friends who's also an entrepreneur. She's like, dude, that chick is making bank. So the irony is she's selling this simple soft life, but she's filming every fucking moment. So I'm like, why don't you just come out and be honest and be like, guys, I'm actually a full time content creator. And yeah, you can still love sourdough and you can love dresses and that's great, I love that. But be honest that you're hustling and you might actually be the provider for your family. So I think there's a lot of delusion going on. I think we're selling them in this image of this is what femininity needs to look like and this is what femininity. Well, that's such a weird word. This is what femininity needs to look like. Or this is what being a woman needs to look like. And the irony, and I feel like you're similar to me in this is. I'VE it wasn't until I started overthinking my femininity that it really started to fuck me up. Like before that I was like, oh, yeah, I'm feminine and I'm also really ambitious and okay, whatever. And I didn't really overthink it. But then a lot of these narratives and these terms, and I think it started to really become overwhelming for women because we're like, oh, wait, should I not be ambitious and have these launches and want to travel and speak and do all these things and. And, ah, should I not have this entrepreneurial bug in me? And now I need to turn it all off. And I think the worst thing you can do is deny who you genuinely are. And if you feel super feminine when you're baking sourdough, awesome. I love that. If you feel super on fire and feminine when you're speaking on stage, I love that. That's how I feel. I feel the most magnetic and sexy and feminine when I'm speaking to thousands of people on a stage. And, you know, maybe one day I'll like making sourdough. And maybe you're someone who likes both. You can also be both. You know, it's.

It's.

It's not. You don't have to be in this box. And I think what I woke up to is I was sold this idea. I was sold this image of what womanhood and motherhood needed to look like. So I was preparing myself for that and really slowed down. And I was only 32, 33, and I was like, okay, well, financially, I don't have to work, so maybe I just won't for a bit. And literally, I cannot emphasize enough to you how being retired at 32 years old was the worst thing that ever. Well, I shouldn't say that worst thing ever happened to me. That's a bold statement, but you know what I mean. It was very, very challenging for my mental health because I'm adhd. I like having goals. I like having dopamine hits. I like having things to do. I like growth. I was the girl at 7 years old who was running home from the bus stop asking my mom if I could start another business and do another lemonade stand and sell jewelry that I made in the basement for hours to my neighbors. I mean, I've always been this girl. I've always been this way. So to deny who I am is such a disservice. Do who I am as a woman. And so if you've always been that little girl who had a big dream in you and You've had that fire in you. You know who I'm. You know, if I'm talking to you right now, you pretending to be somebody else is. It's not feminine. That's actually the most, like, unattractive thing you could do. And so I think it's really about embracing all the different sides of you. You know, I have slow moments. I believe in slow moments. I love my slow mornings. I love my walks. I love my hot baths. I love time with my girlfriends. I love date nights. I love all of that. But I also think when it comes to. For certain women, they need that carrot to chase a little bit, and that's okay. It doesn't mean that you have trauma now that you need to heal or, oh, my God, you're in your masculine all day. Are you burned out? Are you okay? You need to go process this, right? I mean, the amount of times people would say, like, this is a wound, or this is a. Maybe you need to heal this, or this lights you up and brings you energy. When you do what you love, it gives you more energy. So I argue you doing work that you love is the healthiest thing you can do for yourself. And I think we are here as humans to work hard and do things we love. That's literally in the Bible, like working hard and using our gifts, sharing them with others, being of service. And when I experienced that mini retirement, in a sense, it was really depressing because I didn't have children yet. So it's like, what am I doing all day? And I just found myself in this place where it's fun for like a week or two, like a vacation. And then vacation's not fun. Like, you want to go to Hawaii for a week. You don't want to live in Hawaii all the time. And so I started to get like a little stir crazy. And instead of, you know, I use that space to create chaos, which isn't talked about a lot, you know, if you don't, it's like idle hands. And so it got really, really dark. It got really bad. And then, you know, Clay was like, what the going on? And I. It was really hard on our relationship. I felt like my soul was dying inside. In that post, I basically talk about how when creativity is not expressed, it doesn't just fizzle away. It eats at you inside, inside, it aches at you. And I felt like I was literally like, like dying inside. It was. It was so bad, and it was such a. Such a clear reminder that I'm just not someone who can do that. And there's a reason why a lot of people, after they retired, after they retire, get really, really depressed. And we have these studies, we see this all the time. Or they die early because it's like, what are you doing here? Then if you have gifts and you have things that you want to share with the world, like, get to work and do that and utilize your time well. And I think that I. I don't know, it was just. Just. I kind of got brainwashed and I did it, and I. I'm regretful that I did it, but at least I got to experience the other side of the spectrum. And it made me realize how important it is to be connected to my creativity and to really, constantly be doing things that I love. And I don't think work burns us out. I think that if you're doing things you hate, it'll burn you out. But guess what? I was more. I'm whispering. Why am I whispering? I was more depressed and burnt out doing nothing all day. I had never been more burnt out in my life when I was retired. Can you believe that? Can you believe that?

Genuinely do.

Literally. I was so tired all the time, and I wasn't doing. You know what I mean? I had the money, I had the time, I had the. And I sound like a douchebag even saying that, but I'm just being honest. I had what I thought was the dream, and I'm waking up and I looked at myself one day in the mirror. I'm 32 years old, and I'm like, what the are you doing? Like, this is a girl who. I literally hosted, like, some of the largest female entrepreneur events. Like, I wasn't meant to. Whether I want to deny it or not, Like, I'm not here to do little things. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not a regular human. And so I. It was such a. It was a really hard few years. And it was really hard on Clay because he was like, this isn't who I met. Like, what's happening? And I think I just really allowed the narrative to get me of social insane. Like, oh, my God, is my ambition bad? Oh, my God, does it make me masculine? And I think for some people, soft girl can work, maybe. But I think for a lot of people, it's not how they're built. And I think if you're doing what you love, it's going to bring you energy and it's such a great thing to be doing. So, God, I'm trying to keep it short with that, but it's I just have so many thoughts on it now. I think it's. I think it's very detrimental for women who are designed for a lot of growth in their careers. Now if you're listening to this, you're like, girl, that is not me. That's amazing. I want you to do whatever is you. But you know, we're all built so differently. You gotta do what is best for you. And knowing yourself, it took radical self awareness for me to realize, like, this is not what I wanted. This is not the dream. And so, yeah, and I think I just got rid of any of the wording around this is masculine, this is feminine, or God, if you're working too much, then you have a wound. It's like, listen, I'll know when I have a wound, okay? I don't know. I'm like, and you have to be a little obsessed, you know, if you want to create financial freedom for your life and your family. If you want to have a business that reaches thousands of people, hundreds of thousands of people. Like, soul wasn't built because we put in an hour a week and because we just waited for things to happen. We were obsessed. We were literally obsessed. And so obsession also has been given such a bad rap. And it's like, dude, you want to be one of the best at something, you got to be obsessed. And things have to give. And so, yeah, I just think that you can have harmony in your life, but I think that balance is kind of bullshit. So I try to have harmony, but I think that to say that when I'm in a sprint season with my business and building my brand, am I also spending all of my time all week with my girlfriends and then also doing date nights five nights a week? And then also I'm like, it's like, no, something's got to give, right? You got to figure out what are your top main things in life. And I don't know, I just think that it's such an interesting era. And that's so funny that you experience some of your clients wanting that. And I think what it, what's going on is. I'll say this last thing about it. I think what's going on is women are craving. Because I thought about this, I'm like, what are women craving? Why do they want this? Let's peel back the onion. What do they think they're going to feel or get if they live that way? Right? Because whenever we're chasing a certain lifestyle or a thing, it's like, why? Right? What do you think that's Going to give you. They are under the illusion, and this was me, that it's going to bring them freedom and peace. But what kind of freedom? Because I had all of the time freedom, and I had money freedom, but I wasn't free. I was losing my mind every day. I was so bored, and I was just, like, itching to do something. So it didn't really bring me freedom. And it was interesting. When I talked to a therapist about this, she said, you'll think this is fascinating. The women that she works with who have the most freedom and the lack of responsibility are actually the ones that are struggling with their mental health the most. I'm sure she literally said the amount of women that come to her and go, I don't want to do anything. I want to quit my job and I want to move to Bali, and I want to sit in the sun all day eating fresh berries, and that's all I want to do. Now, that sounds fun. For a few hours. That sounds fun. I mean, listen. I mean, the feminine urge to lay naked in the grass is awesome. Let's. I mean, I'm all about it. But also, she said, they come back to me always. Months later, they quit their job, they moved to Bali, and they teach yoga maybe once a week. Right. If that. And she said, they are the most miserable women I've ever met. Because they said, I don't want any responsibility. And, like, the way that I see it, anything in life that's worth having does have responsibility. Relationships, marriage is a huge responsibility. You can't just do whatever you want whenever you want. You're not single anymore. Parenthood will be a huge responsibility. In my life, a business, it's a responsibility. You can kind of do what you want. But like you said earlier, you have. Which I admire, you have such good discipline. You kind of can, but, like, you also do have to answer to your clients and stuff. And you can't just literally not talk to them for a year. And then, hey, guys, how's it going? That's responsibility. But there's something about that that brings you pride. You like having responsibility. It makes you feel purposeful. And so these are a lot of things I was studying while I was retired, as I was reading a lot of books about this and talking to a lot of therapists about this. This, because I was like, what's going on with me? And one of them was like, dude, can I be real with you? You think that this is going to make you happier, but it's. It's not. It's Just not. And I was like, I know I'm really depressed. And so it. It definitely was an awakening. And I'm so glad to be out of it because it was like two years there where I was like, so convinced that if I just, you know, retired at 32 and became a stay at home house mom, that I'd be happy. And then I quickly realized that that was just like. I don't know. I don't know why I was sold that illusion. So, yeah, I'm curious your kind of thoughts on it. It's. It's interesting, but I think more than anything, it's. It's taught me that I just. I'm 35 now. I get to be all of me, and it's not ever going to be too much. I mean, Clay loves my drive and ambition. He's never once been like, oh my God, it's masculine. Like, he's like, what? I'm. No, what are you talking about? He's like, I think you creating the most feminine thing you do. Like, I have no idea what you're talking about. So I kind of want to throw away those words. I think women now are afraid, like, oh, is a guy gonna like me if I'm ambitious?

Oh, we can get into that one later.

Yeah, I'm like, listen, honey, the right guy, he's not even gonna have that terminology. He's not gonna be like, hey, honey. Yeah, listen, I'm feeling like you're way too ambitious. I mean, listen. Yeah. If you're on Zoom calls 15 hours a day, you don't eat, sleep, and you never talk to him. Yeah. Okay, you got some problems. But if you're a regular girl who also still like, takes care of yourself and you love what you do, chances are he probably is going to find it very attractive and cool that you have a life outside of him. Men actually really respect that. Most men don't want someone who is gonna just leech off of them. So, yeah, I mean, take this with a grain of salt. I mean, I feel like somebody's gonna cancel me for saying this. And if this is not for you, that's awesome. I want you to go live that, that life too. You know, I a very, very. I do believe because I'm open minded, there is a small subset of women, I know a few, not many, very small subset of women who I do think being the role of a wife full time could is enough for them and fulfills them and they support the home and they do that all day. And not, not, not without kids and Then I definitely believe, then there is absolutely women who hardest job in the world and needs to be recognized as the most admirable job is stay at home mom who does not have passions and desires outside of their children or wants to just do that. That's great too. But I do think that now there's this new woman who is evolved, who is coming out as well and is kind of like, what am I trying to say? Basically there's like a third door. That's what I realized. And that's like a woman who I want both.

Yeah.

And I think, yes, the reason why this has been so complicated for me is because this is the first generation of women that have the option to have the third door, which is. I want to be an awesome parent and I also want to be a really great entrepreneur. And I want my kids to be like, damn, that's my mom on stage. Like, she's cool. Like, I want my kids to be like, dude, my mom loves her life outside of us. I don't want them to think that they are my. I grew up with that and it was really painful, that codependency. So I want them to think, like, my mom's cool. Yeah, she does her own thing, obviously she's a great mom to us and like she fucking loves her life and she's a role model for us to go live our best lives. I think that's the greatest gift you can give your kids. So I think this third option of woman, of woman. That sounds weird. This third. What would you call it, like, path, maybe? Yeah, this like third way. It's not like, hey, am I either a stay at home mom or I'm a girl boss? It's like I kind of want to. To figure it all out and be it all. And so that's really what I'm more passionate about now too is like figuring out how can I be it all and that I would love to just really experience it all. Because I think, you know, you can figure out a way to do that now where in the past women didn't have that many options. You know, my mom didn't have the Internet. She couldn't start an online business. You're home with the kids then or you're off to be a nurse or work a corporate job from 9 to 6 all day. Right. And someone else is with your kids. So I, I do think that we also live in one of the coolest times in history for women to be able to work from home. And entrepreneurship, dude, digital entrepreneurship, like, changed everything. 100. So, yeah, I'm super curious. I know you're very unfiltered thoughts on it. I mean, to me, you. You don't seem like you ever really went into soft girl, right?

No. No, not in terms of how I worked and so.

And where do you get your discipline from, too? I want to hear about that. I love you.

Yeah, I've always had it. I've always been this way. In fact, when I was 10 years old, it was funny, you said lemonade stand. I had a hot dog stand because all the kids in the neighborhood were doing lemonade stands, but there was a construction crew. Now I was living with my. Yeah, talk about knowing your ideal client. Yeah, right. I'm like, frank, Frank don't want fucking lemonade, okay. Frank wants a hot dog and some chips.

Yeah.

So I was. I lived with my biological father in the summers in Minnesota, and so cul de sac life, right? All those, like, neighborhoods. So I took out a loan from my dad, and my stepmom went to BJ's. We got hot dogs, made brownies.

How much was this loan?

It was like 500. Yeah, we got, like, canned soda pop, right. Water, chips. I made brownies, hot dogs, all this stuff. And, like, I had a business cranking.

Wait, that's so cute.

I was making a lot of money at 10.

10.

At 10. Who taught you this?

One of your parents, an entrepreneur?

My. No. You know, my. No, they. None of them are entrepreneurs, but my stepmom, I will say, gave me. My stepmom at the time, gave me that. The idea of, like.

I was gonna say, why inspired you to do this at 10? Because usually it's a kid who's seen somebody else do it.

Yeah. Something around, because I wanted to do, like, a lemonade and cookie type stand. And she was like, well, there's, you know, what do you think those guys would want?

Yeah.

You know what I mean? So it was really fun.

But.

All right, so in terms of my discipline, I've always had it. And, you know, I always took a lot of pride. I always connected with my mom and my. My stepfather, but he's my dad. I mean, he raised me right. I took his last name. Like, I changed it. Like, that's, you know. But they work really hard. And I just remember, like, honestly, they. I'm tired watching them now still.

Like, they.

Like, I'm talking to them on my way here to Austin. I was at the airport in la. They're like, oh, yeah. Well, we just got back from Martha's Vineyard. We went there For a few days. And then we did a concert last night. And I'm like, it's. It's Tuesday night. You went to a concert on Monday. But they have just always been such active people, hard workers. Like, I remember Saturdays would just be like a list. Like, look at me. This is where I get it from. This is like, these are my. This is how I track all my work. This is my days. These are my days of the week. No, you guys can't see this, but, like, this is how I. This is my list and of things on Monday.

Like, all to do. Yeah, that's so I love that. I always write it down. Even though it's probably also in your phone.

It is in my phone. Notes everywhere.

Right.

So I definitely got my work ethic and discipline. But I.

Is that your calendar of what to do?

It's just. So I look at my actual calendar.

Yeah, for your Google Calendar.

And then I put, like, my list on my notebook so I can check stuff off because.

Oh, my God, I love it.

Right? So this is like. Yeah, this is a little bit different. Yeah. So that means I worked out that day. I didn't that day.

Okay.

Yeah. So.

Oh, my God. Credit report podcast.

Notice all the things I don't do.

Wait, do you have to get all this done in one day?

Oh, yeah. So this is Monday's call.

You know, they say, like, don't give yourself this many. Give yourself like four. But you. You go. You're right.

Super quick. Well, this method could be like, let's say I'm on a call with you on a Tuesday, and I have this out, and on Tuesday, it's like, okay, I'm gonna follow up with Angie on Friday. I would just literally go to Friday and put Angie. You know what I mean? Like, little things like that.

That's how my brain works. I've never seen someone else whose brain works like that.

I've been doing this for, like, 20 years.

I just like to see my day like that written out.

Okay.

So then I can cross it off. Off.

Yeah, I gotta cross off.

Oh, my God.

I have, like, code. I've been doing this for 20 years. Like, literally, I've like, trained people on this. Yeah, my.

Okay, we're gonna talk about this.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

Because my. I have my Google calendar and has all my stuff, but sometimes I'm like, I still write it down. A little sticky notes every day. Yeah.

Because then I don't do, like, to do's in my calendar.

Yeah.

You know, but anyways, we're talking about work ethic. I think I also just fell in love with the feeling of the pride of working hard. Right. I always say, let the burn feel good. Let it feel good. You know? And I just. You said so many things, but one of the things I want to hit is I think that feminine is, like, the most misunderstood thing out there.

Yeah.

And when I, like, I used to think it was, like, my role as a woman to, like, cook. So, like, I would always, like, want to cook and do all this stuff and, like. But I was not actually in my feminine. I would also be, like, I wasn't present.

And, yes. I was cooking as a. In your masculine energy.

Checking it off.

Right.

And then you get the goddess dresses. I live in tulum.

Right.

You get the goddess dress.

Oh, my God.

So that makes me feminine. Right. Like, I tried that. Like, oh, if I'm wearing the goddess dress now, I'm feminine. Like, no, actually, my feminine came from when I stopped trying to be that.

Yeah.

And I. For me, there's nothing more feminine than, like, nurturing, creating a safe place, presence.

Yeah. Just being present.

Groundedness, grace.

Yeah.

Right. And you can't be present and grounded if you're anxious, if you're high strung.

Yeah.

You cannot be.

Yeah. And you're very present.

Yeah. And I worked really hard on that. You know, I struggled with anxiety a lot in my 20s.

Yeah.

And I was. My nervous system was wild. Right. And so for me, I think there's such a wild misunderstanding of feminine. And they think it's like a photo shoot in a goddess dress on the beach, like doing prayers, having cacao.

Amen. When do you feel the most feminine?

I feel the most feminine when I'm present. When I am listening to learn in a place of curiosity.

Yeah.

If I ever catch myself listening, to respond, I have to pull myself back. I feel the most feminine when I am. When I can see someone's greatness in them and, like, reflect that back.

Yeah.

And really just hold. Like, I had a friend who was really feeling. I want to hear yours. But I had a friend who was really feeling just down in a dark spot. And there was a level of responsibility in which he held for that. And I was able to meet him with grace and love and not beat him up or shame him, but acknowledge that. Okay, here's where you're at. And without. I think the unhealthy feminine is like, I will fix you.

Yeah.

Let me make it better. I will fix you. That would have been Melissa a few years ago.

Yeah.

Right. But Melissa now is Like, I believe in your ability to navigate this, and I will be in the fire with you, and I will be by your side. This is the boundary I. I get to hold. I think feminine is the real. Feminine is power.

Yeah. Well, just think of, like, a mama bear. Like, she's fierce with her, literally. Yeah. If you go up to cubs in a bear, a mama bear, she'll literally kill you. That's where the saying comes from. So I always think of that.

Where do you feel the most feminine?

Yeah, it's so interesting because it's not. It's definitely not. When I'm cooking, I try, and I want to get better at it because I do know it would mean a lot to Clay, but I don't. If I was being honest, I'm not like, oh, my God. That's when I feel my feminine goddess era. I feel the most feminine when I'm speaking, teaching, and creating content that makes someone laugh or think. I feel really feminine when I'm with other women. So, like, right now, this is me and my feminine just talking. We're teaching. I'm with you, and we're being present and being honest and vulnerable. I think that's very feminine. I think dudes don't necessarily sit around and do that a lot, so, I mean, they shed a little bit here and there. So, yeah, I guess that's when I feel. And then on stage, speaking, anytime I'm doing the gifts that I think God put me here to do. So it's like, I would say, like, teaching, speaking, writing, creating, making people laugh. Like, it's. It's definitely. It's not passive. It's definitely very. Like, I'm engaged in the things I meant to do, but I'm doing it with the energy of an open heart. And, yeah, when I'm playing with my nephew and we're joking around, but even that, it's like, okay, I could be in a maternal mood, and I'm listening to him, and we're having fun, and he's one and a half. So, like, he's just hilarious and weird right now. But also, like, if I'm really stressed, like, I'm in an anxious mood, like, he, you know, like, oh, he's being so loud, or da, da. It's like, it really. It's really about how you're doing something now, what you're doing. Right. Because if, like, I'm frolicking in the field with him in a dress, but I'm, like, pissed off, or I'm just, like, right. Not being present and I'm like, oh. I'm like, it's like, that's not necessarily like, oh my God, you're maternal. So it's not just about what you wear. I think it's really like the essence that you bring to things. And yeah, no, I love everything you said. That's exactly when I feel the most feminine. And yeah, I like dressing up. I like doing my hair and makeup and stuff. It definitely makes me feel better about myself. But I don't think it's like comp.

It could be more confident.

More confident and it's like it's an add on. But if I'm not in a good mood or if I'm like not present, then like some makeup isn't gonna like do.

So.

Yeah, I do. I agree with you. I think the feminine is like really badass and powerful and I think sometimes the narrative is like receive. Yeah. And be. This is what really me up is the being not doing. And I was like, wait, so what do I. I do? They're like, will you be? And I'm like, oh, what wait, like now I'm overthinking. It's like, don't do anything. But I'm like, what? All the things I wait, I'm doing, I'm doing my business, I'm doing. If I'm speaking on stage, I'm definitely doing a lot. I'm not being. I mean, yes. My energies maybe. I don't even know. See, I can't even explain it. So. Yeah. But the good thing is I don't need to know. We don't need to figure it out because you just be yourself.

You know what's so interesting there though, that you mentioned like the things where you feel the most feminine. Yeah. You were related to your heart and to your creative energy.

Yeah.

Now I actually. And I'm not like super woo. Like, you know this about me. Like, look at me. You know, I like use a barbell. I'm wearing like, you know, freaking jeans.

I feel like we're the same amount of spirituality probably.

I think so too.

Yeah.

Yeah. And. But I really began studying and I'm curious your thoughts on this sacral chakra energy and business. And that actually really changed my relationship with business because I learned if I could tape into the tap into the sacral chakra energy. Sacral chakra energy is your creative energy.

Yeah, yeah.

Which is life force energy.

Literally.

So it's the same energy that births life, that births a human.

Yeah.

And so I actually always not from like a super woo woo way but actually from, like, a biological way.

Yeah. Yeah. It's cool.

I'm like, okay, whatever you want to call that energy. But if I can tap into my creative energy and I see my work as creation. I told you, I. I don't. I hate when people say I work too much because I'm like, no one told Tom Brady he worked too much. No one tells musicians and artists they work too much because that's acceptable. But, like, this is my art.

Yeah.

This is me tapping into my sacral chakra energy. Like, I know, but it is. And, like, life force energy to create.

Yeah.

And when I'm in a state of creation.

Yeah.

I feel very connected to myself.

Yeah.

And my femininity.

Yeah. No, that's really. I've. I thought I've heard of that a few times, and I do think that's true. I feel like I'm curious. One day when I do give birth, they'll feel like that energy is, like, almost like it's always been in me. Like, it's always in you. I think as women, we are here to create. Yes. A lot of different things. A lot. So I think that's babies. Yeah. Businesses, like, we're a lot of things, and I think that's really, really cool. And I think that we don't get enough credit for that. Yeah. And sometimes when I'm, like, feeling not creative, I'm like, dude, you're literally the species that can, like, create life. Like, you think you can't figure out this little thing? Like, you could figure out this video. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

What would you say to the woman you referenced that moment when you looked in the mirror and you were like, what the. You doing okay? And I honestly think a lot of people listening.

Yeah.

Maybe had that moment this morning.

Yeah.

Or maybe this week or maybe last week. What would you say to the person listening when they look in the mirror and they don't even feel connected to what they say?

Yeah. I think you got to tune out the noise. You got to get rid of all of the. The noise. Social. Social media. In. In person, you gotta get rid of the noise and get so clear on who you are. And I almost feel like it's a coming home to who you are. I think, you know. You know, people act like they don't know. You already know. You know the answer. We always act like we don't know. And like, oh, I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

You know, it's so funny you say that, because I literally sent someone a text message last Night. It was like, I'm so confused. And I was like, you're not confused.

You're not confused.

Yeah, you're not confused. You're resistant.

Yeah, I mean, I play that all the time. Oh, I'm confused. No, I'm not. I know what I want. And so one, give yourself more credit than you're giving yourself. You. You probably know what you want. And I think for me, it was like getting my life force energy back. And for me, that's, you know, dance and exercise and literally moving the physical body to get the brain working. And yeah, I think it's a lot of. It's like, limiting beliefs that just start to come in of like. Like, who are you to do that? Or, you know, the one I'm dealing with is like, who am I to have it all? Like, who am I to literally have an amazing relationship? And I want to be this cool mom, and I want to have this great business and I'm. Have all this money, and I want to live in a cool city and I want to have this awesome house. Like, who am I to have all that? And then I'm like, who the am I not to. What do you mean? Like, people do this all day long. It's not rocket science. I can figure this out. Other people figured it out. I can figure it the out. I know that sounds like, kind of harsh, but it's like, you can figure it out. Yeah, like literally.

No, I like to fluff around. Think of.

Think of some of the richest people in the world. They don't. You think they're the smartest people in the world? No. They figured out a system. They doubled out on it. Like, it's not. Nothing's rocket science. Right. And so I always go back to that. I'm almost like, dude, you can figure this out. Nothing's rocket science. And you get to have it all. You're gonna figure it out. And like, now I'm turning it into inspiration. Like, I would love. My goal is to become that woman that women are like, oh, my God, she's like, such an example of, like, she's doing it all now. That doesn't mean I'm. Doesn't mean I don't have help. And it doesn't mean, like, the realities of what that looks like, you know? But I. Yeah, I would. I would love to be that for other women. So, yeah, I think it's. You just have to be really real with yourself. Just get so real. Like, I was sugar. I was. I was bullshitting myself. I was like, gaslighting myself. Even though that word's like sober down. That's what I was doing. I was like, oh, no, no. Like, you can't get back into that because of this or no, no, like, this must be a wound then if you can't, like, just water flower, water your plants all day. Like, oh my God, something wrong with you. Like, but I would find that, like, I wanted to. Oh, I know, dude, you would have died. I. I was like, no, no, there's something wrong with you. Tune in. What must that be? And then I was like, what the the are you doing? Stop it. Yeah, honestly, it was a lot of the spiritual world that kind of me up.

So it went way too far.

My friends in the Midwest, you know, I'm from Chicago originally, they're like, dude, what are you even talking about? They're like, I have to work every day and I have to do this. And like, we don't really get to sit around and think about all these. This is like rich people problems. And I was like, oh yeah, it is. So yeah, I mean, you hear about this all the time. Founders who sell their companies and you hear about this all the time, they go into a deep, deep depression. I know three or four of them who sold 200 million dollar companies in LA. These guys, I mean, one of them, I don't even know if he's okay. One of them completely left the Internet. I mean, they, when they come back on, they're like, I had never been more sad than when I sold that company because, yeah, it's not like all of a sudden you have all this money transferred in your bank account and now you're free. It's like, what's your purpose? No, you playing the game was the fun part. So once the game's over, like, yeah, okay. It's like a video game. If you like know the cheat codes, you're like, okay, yeah, like, what do I do now? Game's over. The game's fun to play when it's fun to play the game. So that was like, glad I learned it at an early age. But yeah. Oh my God. Dude, it was rough. So.

Yeah, so good. I like that you just called it out and you weren't like, okay, so if you look in the mirror, you don't like it. Like, then go give yourself a hug and say 5,000. You know what I mean? Because I love is the growth.

Yeah, I tried that and it just really didn't work. Yeah, it was making it worse. No, I was just babying myself and baby myself And I'm like, angie, you are, like, not giving yourself credit. Yeah. So I had to. I. You have to know yourself. I know I needed tough love. Maybe you need a little soft love. But me, I needed to be honest with myself. Yeah.

But I honestly think that, like, the love doesn't always feel good.

Amen.

Love is not always going to feel.

Good in relationships, too.

And. Yeah. And I hate when people say people pleasing. I just care about people so much, and I'm a people pleaser. No, no, actually, you care about that person being happy with you.

Yeah.

That's what you care about. You're falling into people pleasing because you don't want them to be disappointed with you because you can't handle it. You don't want them to not like you because you can't handle it. True power and strength is being like, I love you enough to be willing to say this. And I'm saying it to your point with an energy and intention of love, not judgment. Because it's not about what you're doing or even what you say. It's the energy and intention next to it. And, like, that, to me, is love. Like, I want the person who tells me, malicious, alyssa, I gotta call you forward.

Wow.

Yeah. Not the one who's like, you're doing great. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, that feels good, too.

But, yeah, and it was. It was good. I mean, honestly, it was clay. It was my partner, you know, so for women listening, beautiful. I was doing a lot. A lot. And then. And I. I think that this, for some women would be like, oh, my God, that's so harsh of him. But, you know, true love is also him being like, this isn't your best.

Yeah, I love that.

Right? I mean, come on. That's like some real love. That's like, next level shit. That's not just like, yeah, okay. Like, he came home one day and he. I'll always remember the moment. And he was just like, this has gotta end. And I was like, yeah, right? And, well, I wouldn't. Shouldn't say that was my response. I started crying and what do you know? And, oh, no. Like, I need this. This is my feminine era.

Oh, God.

He's like, angie, you're literally depressed. You are doing nothing all day. I'm like, yeah, but, like, this is good for me. Like, this is healing. Wow. This is hashtag healing. And he'd be like, what the are you talking about? I'm like, I don't know. Some girl on Instagram told me. And so, yeah, it Took some really brutal conversations. I mean, him and I went through it just yelling and screaming and. Until he literally was just like, sit down. I'm gonna tell you something. If you do not stop doing this, like, this isn't gonna work. And so, yeah, it was. It was like, yeah, we were at a really hard moment. But I always relate it to Goodwill hunting, where you've seen it.

Oh, yeah.

We just talked about at the end. And he brought up that analogy to me because he knew I'd understand it. Then he was like, okay, Ben Affleck is sitting there on or standing by the car at the end of the movie, and he's looking at Matt Damon. He's like, dude, I love you, but if you're still here, you know, in a year, you're still here, in a few years working this job, I'll kill you. And what he means by that is, like, you're my best friend. Like, you're not. I have to stay here and work here. But, like, you don't. Like, you have this opportunity to go, and it's like, such a good scene.

You're like, goosebumps.

Oh, I get it. And that's what he was like. That's what's happening right now. So I was like, like, oh. He's like, I'll kill you. I'll literally kill you. And so, like, I kind of think about that now, too. I'm like, obviously to my friends, I wouldn't be that intense. But, like, when you're in a relationship with someone, sometimes you do have to be. That's the person you're spending your life with.

So, yeah, I mean, we don't. I don't want to encourage anyone to give unsolicited feedback.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'll know when it's the right moment.

Or if this is for your husband or whatever your relationship, you know, like, you know, I have certain ones that are going to be more, like, not that deep, you know? And I, for sure, I wouldn't just.

Like, go to your friend right now, be like, girlfriend, you're not making enough in your business. This is, like, for your husband or wife who, like, you're going through it, and you can. And the thing is, he saw that I wasn't happy, it'd be different. He said, if you were actually genuinely happy in this, that would have been different, but you're not. So I think that's really where it's, you know, 100%.

I love that, and I'd love to maybe just kind of. I mean, we could Jam forever. We've already been talking, like, because we talked a whole hour before.

Oh, my God, I love this. This is therapy for me today. Melissa's therapy.

I. I'd love to kind of maybe just wrap up a little bit with, like, what it's like being a power couple in the industry and then, like, kind of, you know, sharing anything in ways in which you and Clay might be, you know, serving people or how you are serving people or anything playing. But before we do, there's one thing I just wanted to see if you knew about, because I wrote it down in my little notebook here when we were talking was. I forget what you were saying. Oh, the spiritual tells you that you're supposed to just be right.

Yes.

Have you heard of Ayurveda?

Yeah. Okay.

That's real spiritual shit. Okay. Like Ayurveda.

So like vata. Yeah.

So for Ayurveda. So if you're not familiar, you guys, I coach Ayurveda in Greece. I coach it in health.

Wait, how do you coach it? Wait, really?

Yes. Because Ayurveda is energy, movement, and balance.

Okay.

So it's everything.

I've done it a little bit. Like, I was eating for my, like, body type thing or something.

You have to balance.

Right. I forgot what mine was. I was the fire one.

So you're pitta. Of course you are. Yeah. So you don't really probably want to have spicy food. You want to have, like, grounding, cooling.

Yes, yes. But pitta's like. So you can apply this to business, life, everything. So pitta is like, if we're not working the fire, it's like fire.

It's like fire energy.

I see it as like moldy, stagnant water that's not moving almost. Yeah. Like, we have too much fire that if we don't get it out, it, like, Correct. Yeah.

Yes.

Do you think some people do have a personality more of like a kapha that could.

Yeah. Think about it. Kapha would be like that heavy personality. Like an unhealthy Kapha would be like a. Like an Eeyore vibe.

Yeah.

Like, just heavy. Like earth.

Like, what are you? Are you also.

I'm pitta, and I work really hard to keep everything balanced. I can get very. I really stretch more into my kapha. The groundedness, because that was what I was missing for, is very much in my head and action.

Okay.

I see that a lot with entrepreneurs. So they're vata. So if you're listening, you're not familiar with this. Vata is air, energy and thought yeah. Pitta is fire energy and it's action, and kapha is earth energy and it's grounding.

But you can go too far in all them because I went too far into the kapha and then I just got lazy as fuck.

Well, that was. My point, is that it's like doing, being. So my point is, like, actual real spirituality is that you have to find harmony between all of them. You're not just fucking kapha ing and grounding the whole time. If you want to grow, you actually move from thought to action to reflection. From thought to action to reflection. From thought to action to reflection. Oh, I actually do business strategy this way. Like, okay, let's bring. And I bet you guys do too, subconsciously. I didn't realize.

Yeah, yeah.

So it's like, okay, let's think, let's brainstorm, let's ideate. Okay, now let's go execute. Now let's look at data and reflect.

Oh, right. Yeah. That's like the cycle of life. It's kind of like the cycle.

It's the seasons and the cycle.

Oh, wow. It sounds a lot like, like spring, summer.

Yeah.

Fall and winter.

It is. Oh, it's basically the world works. But I just want to call, like, out any, like, anyone listening who's like, maybe in a spiritual, righteous conversation that, like, we just have to be in the being. That's actually not. If you really go back into, like, ancient spiritual, like, kind of wisdom and teachings.

Yeah.

Actually moving through the. All of them.

Wow. I mean, an easier way to say that too, even is like, you're not meant to be in winter all the time. Yes. And I was. Yeah, I was just in a really. No, no. I mean, I love the. The Aerovada for sure. I was just in a really long winter, and he was just like, yo. When spring coming. And I was like, I don't know. And so now I feel like I'm in my spring summer, which is cool. It's like coming back. But. Yeah. Because I was just in summer and summer and summer and summer and summer and summer. And it's like, I. Yeah. I think it's okay for me a little bit to tap into spring and winter, but I'm not someone who can be in winter a long time. Yeah. Obviously it was really hard.

No, yeah, That's a really good way and I put it.

Wow.

Yeah.

Seasons.

Yeah, it's seasons. I love that.

Wow. Everything's like, in four sections. Like, we have four sections of our cycle, too. That crazy. So luteal, menstrual follicular. And then ovulation. Interesting. There's also four seasons, and so everything is connected. I know. I'm like, oh, my God. We literally have four seasons in us.

That are constantly wild. Four is like my number one.

Rotating numbers.

Do you have a number?

I guess three. Yeah, I guess three or 11. Yeah. Three for you. Really?

I could totally see.

I see three for you. I see a three. I see you as a three. Yeah.

My white girl Spanish. Yeah.

That's so funny.

Yeah. So I would love to just kind of maybe wrap up. I mean, we're gonna have to do 98 more, but.

I know, right?

Can we just start a talk show?

I know.

With, you know what it's like, you know, being in a power couple. 1. I am in the waiting room.

Yeah.

I'm in the waiting room. We'll take this full circle.

Yeah.

I'm in the waiting room for my power partner. Oh, I just got emotional now.

Power. Wow.

Yeah. My power partner. Because I really want a partnership. Like, I explained it, actually, when I was interviewing with Chris Harder, I was like, you know, I want to play tag. And I love this in life anyways. Like, even in my friendships, I like playing tag, where it's like one person goes and inspires the other one, and they're like, you know, tag, you're it. And then they go and they inspire the other one, and you're just kind of, like, doing this whole dance of. My microphone is now way above my head. I don't even know if you guys heard that. But, like, this whole dance, and I forget. Clay was like, what are you looking for in a partner? And I was like, what I said, and I was like. I think I referenced that he's got to be able to eat barbells, but, you know, kind and just driven as fast stuck.

Yeah.

You know, I'm willing to do the work.

Yeah.

And constantly grow. Because the problem that I see a lot of couples have is only one partner is doing the work and growing, and then the other one doesn't. And now there's a big gap.

Yeah. And that's what happened with us when.

That's what happened with you. And.

Yeah.

Ironically, I mean. And I just want to say before I. Before you get into, like, sharing all the. All the deets, is that you guys just create such a beautiful environment at home. Because, like, literally, I just met Clay. I'm like. I feel like you guys are family, and, like, we've just been hanging out, and he's looking at my hinge profile. He made me Tacos.

Right.

He audited my profile. We chatted for, like, hours, and then we're just all chilling on the couch like it was like a Sunday afternoon.

Yeah. He's so sweet.

Yeah, you guys are great.

It's been interesting. You know, I think everybody wants a power couple and so many thoughts on it, because I think it's so funny when you say that, because I never. I don't even like that term. I'm like, a power couple. Sounds so draining to me. But I guess, like, we are one. You are. So it's so funny because I always see it as, like, two people that it just. I don't know. I have a weird relationship with that word. I need to work on that. But I. I need to see it as a good thing. I. I think I've struggled with it a little bit because I've always. I want to be taken care of. But then I also have this really strong, powerful personality, so it can kind of. I've really had to learn when to also learn how to really respect him and, like, know when it's your green light. So basically, like, if you're both on green, there has to be some polarity. So, like, you have to kind of learn how to still dance together. And so I think to be careful that you're not clashing, because we both are very strongly have strong leadership personalities. You have to make sure, yeah, you're not clashing then. But, yeah, I always tell women, I'm like, he. When he found me or discovered me, which is such a funny story, he was really attracted to that in me. And I think that was new for me because my ex before that, he didn't really like that. He was like, I don't want to be with someone who wants to do big or live a big life. Like, he just didn't want that. And so I really remember thinking, like, I'll find someone who does. And then I kind of just, like, let it go. And then when he found me, I was surprised because I was like, oh, my God, this is exactly what he's looking for. So. So, yeah, I think it's something that you. You. You want. You want to keep. It's almost like you need to be that person who you are looking to attract as well. I think that's important to know. But I think that the pros of that relationship is that you guys respect each other and you guys see each other that way. But then the negative is it can be hard when you're trying to figure out who's, like, the Dance of the polarity. That's what I've always really. Even though he's totally masculine and takes care of us and, like, handles all of our shit, I think that I've had to really work on that. That part of it a little bit. I don't know. It's interesting. So, yeah, I mean, it was such a blessing the way that it happened. I think I knew. I always. I have. Similar to you, I always wanted to be with someone very, very driven and very, very smart. Clay's very, very smart sometimes. He's. I wanted to be dumber, actually, though.

Because it's so smart.

He's gonna challenge you then, so you don't really get a break. So I'm like. I always joke. I'm like, man, if I was with a dumb, dumb right now, he wouldn't even care about this. He wouldn't say anything. So I always joke. I'm like, can you be dumber? Like, I literally say that to him all the time. Can you be dumber? And we just mess with each other. So, yeah, I'm excited for you. I. I feel like that's. I feel like those guys are out there and they exist. And I think that a lot of them now are. They do want to be with a woman who is driven and is ambitious, but I feel like they also, like, the right guy's not gonna be intimidated by that. Right. Do you know what I mean?

Right.

And I think as long as he sees that you are present and loving and you have these other qualities that you're not gonna like, I don't want to compete. Yeah. Compete or be down his throat, then it's not a big deal. I think where women really need to work on is just. Just learning how to let the man be the man and respect the man. Because that was. I mean, I was never taught. So now I'm listening to books on that. I'm like, holy. I did not know how to do that. So.

Yeah. Yeah. And I would say for any woman listening, too, like, not only let the man be the man, but, like, if you're out there, like, for me, the fact that, like, I'm out there doing all this, like, on the flip side, I'm craving, like, a home where I can close my eyes. Do you know what I mean? Like. Like, that person is leading. They can be the man, you know? Like, I think the unhealthy understanding of powerful women is that powerful woman challeng men. But I think powerful women fuel men.

Right? Yeah.

Like, and together, it's not like, they're sitting there like, and you know what I mean? But it's like they. They fuel that together, so.

Oh, absolutely.

It's interesting.

Yeah, no, I think it's. It's finding a very intelligent, successful man is awesome, but you have to also step it up too, then. Yes. Like, it's not an easy feat. And I've realized, like, I've been with dudes in the past who are just like, dumb dumbs. I call them dumb dumbs.

Yeah, I love when you do that. Like, sorry, dad.

You know, it was fun, but, like, there wasn't a challenge. And, like, he's here to be my teacher as well. He's not just here to, like, comfort me. And so I think that's something that you have to know if that's something you want to sign up for as well. And so. But ultimately that's such a gift. But, yeah, I mean, our biggest thing that we bond on is our humor. He's. He's just comedy writing. He's. He's helped me a lot with a lot of my scripts for my ads and things like that and funny skits that I've done and sketches. He's absolutely hilarious. He's a genius with writing and understands comedy. So his comedy writing is probably Clay's biggest skill. Yeah, he understands actual comedy writing, which is a skill in itself. It's not just being funny is an actual art, you know, and so you have to actually study it. I mean, some of my reels, like, those are actually written out. It's not just me ad living. And he's helped a lot with writing those and scripting those. So that's kind of where we. We. Our genius will come together. And he understands humor and comedy at a really deep level. So it's been cool because when we met, he knew I was silly and funny and wanted to get more into comedy. And then to know that he was also equally really obsessed with comedy, that's like our through line is. Is our humor. I could not be with someone serious. And so. And my ex in the past was pretty serious, so that was really hard because we never really fucked around and laughed and he wasn't sarcastic. And then I met Clay. I'm like, oh, my God, you're so witty and sarcastic. And so that was very interesting to experience because I didn't know what it'd also be like to be with someone really funny.

Yeah.

So I think you have to know your non negotiables too. And that for me is number one. Like, you got to Be funny.

You have to be funny.

You have to be funny and weird. Because if not, like, what are you doing? Yeah. Like, people who take life so seriously. I'm like, dude, oh. I don't know if I need to tell you this. We're not getting out alive. Yeah. So, yeah, it's been. It's been fun. And. Yeah. I think it's. Yeah. I love. I love when women are in the waiting room for that because it's like, there's so much magic to happen. Yeah. And I feel like. I'll say this. I think the women who've had to wait longer for their men. And I'm gonna. I'll put it for babies, too. I think that when they do get that thing one, it's usually like, it's really good. Like, it's like, damn. Like, I know I'm gonna get, like, twins or something. Like, there's gonna be some cool way this story all ends, but with dudes, it's like an amazing guy. Like my friends who had to wait. I'm like, dude, what? Like, it was so worth the wait.

Yeah.

Like, holy. He's a way cooler than if you just would have been with Brad right now, you know? Yeah. So think of that. So. Yeah. The woman that you become in the waiting room, like, you become such a different woman than if it just, like, came to you right away. And. Yeah. I just feel like good comes to those who wait. Yeah.

And total. And enjoy. And enjoy the way. And, like, because I'm like, I'm genuinely. I'm so. I've never loved life so much as I do.

Wow.

Like, I. I don't.

I've never. That's when he's coming. Yeah.

I didn't possible to love life this much. Like, I genuinely am so happy every day. It's bananas. And I think I'm so grateful for it because I was on the flip side where I didn't want to live.

Yeah.

Like, I genuinely don't want to live at a time.

Wow. Right?

And so I. I said this on stage. I'm like. I'm like, weirdly, like, love life. Like, elf is, like, genuinely how I feel. And, like, I think some people think it's a performance. It's. It's not.

Wow.

But I always joke and I say, like, my man, he's gonna be a lucky man.

Yeah. Right.

Because, like, I already love your life.

Yeah.

I already love my life. And, like, I'm gonna treat him so well.

Yeah.

You know, like, and if I had gotten married or met him sooner, I would have been ready. So it's like, I just know all that. If I had gotten married in, like, my 20s and arguably early 30s, I'd probably be divorced by now.

Wow. Yeah.

For how much?

That's what a lot of women forget. They're like, oh, I'm behind. I'm like, girl, everyone's on their first divorce.

You're fine.

Yeah, you're fine. Girl, you're fine. To divorce. Yeah, you're fine. So, like, it's. It's like, I think it's. Yeah. I think that good shit comes to those who wait. And that's something I've been telling myself, so I gotta add that to the waiting room book. Wow. Good shit comes to those who wait. Because I think of all the stories of people, you know, had to wait for something. You're like, oh, my God. Wow. And you value it more.

Value it more.

Yeah. This isn't to shame anybody who met their husband right away and had kids the day after you guys met. But I think that, like, I can already tell how much I'm going to really value my children now after wanting them for so long. Yeah. Where I think women who. My friends who maybe happened right away, they're like, dude, I didn't feel that same because you're gonna have a different level of that. Yeah. So it's like, I. Same thing with men. It's like, I think if you've had really had to wait for this guy and you finally meet him, you're gonna have so much more gratitude for it than I'm like, oh, yeah, I just met him. It's fine. Whatever. We take advantage of the things that have been given to us easily. So, like, that's something I think about too, is like, you're gonna be so grateful for it and you're gonna be so excited about it, and he's gonna meet you at such a great place. And, like, if I was a guy, I'd be so attracted to a woman who said, hey, like, yeah, of course there's. There can be some sadness in you that wants it. I mean, that. That wouldn't be human to say you never feel sadness about it, but I would 80% of the time, or, I don't know, maybe I shouldn't give a percentage to it, but I would want to know that the woman that's waiting for me is hopefully living a happy life. A happy life isn't a perfect life. It doesn't mean that she's never seen.

That I'm not perfect.

Yeah, it doesn't Mean, you're always just happy all the time. No, like, maybe she cried her eyes out on a Tuesday night going to bed single and alone, and then the next day was like, all right, that's also a happy life. That's also waiting in the waiting room. But I would want to meet her. I don't know. What is it saying boys and men are? Or babies and men and babies are. They come to you when you're. What is it saying, like, they come to you when you're living your life? Yeah, like, life happens when you're doing other things.

Totally.

That's the cool. Life happens when you're doing other things and it's the same thing. Like, so cheesy. But, like, he's probably gonna. You're probably gonna meet him when you're like, what the fuck? That was the most random way I just met him. Oh, my God. Like, I always thought I was gonna meet someone on an app. For sure. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I was on those apps like crazy. I was, like, going on so many dates, and then I was like, who's this guy on Instagram that keeps DMing me? Like, what the hell? And I'm just going on dates and going on the apps, and I was ignoring that right in front of me, just going on all the apps. So it's funny.

Oh, my God. That's so. Yeah, no, I mean, you said a couple of things there. I just have to. They're so good. One of the things you said earlier today was, like, you know, supporting women and fighting for their joy and when I was just saying it's happiest one I've ever been because I had to fight so fucking hard for it. I fought so hard to love life this much. So I'm so grateful that I'm so grateful that Angel. I actually really, like, I'm not lying. I don't really feel sad. I feel excited. Like, wow. Like, I'm so excited for my person whenever he steps in. Like. Like, I'm so excited because I also know what I've survived arrived, and, like, if. If some. Let's just say he never steps in. I've already been through the worst thing in my life.

Right. Oh, wow. It's just really.

I'm genuinely not sad. Like, I want him. He's gonna be such a lucky man. I spoil him, you know? And, like, I do these little things. This is so weird. I can't believe I'm gonna say this, but I do these, like, weird little things where I'm, like, I get excited to Already feel like I'm spoiling that person. Like, I will not date around and, like, I will not, like, let men in my energy in a way, like, as if I had a partner. Oh, my God, I've drawn boundaries.

That guy could be the partner, though. The irony.

Yeah, well, the irony. I mean, if I felt like it.

Was gonna be that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's getting in there.

Yeah. But, like.

Yeah, and just like. No, like, how would. Like, how would I show up right now if I'm in relationship with my person?

Oh, yeah. Like, already being that one.

Like, already being that woman. And like, how would I respond? How would I react?

What does spoiling mean to you? I'm so pleased. What does that mean?

Oh, I don't know. Ask me that. I think just like. Like not spoiling in a negative way of, like, when you think of a spoiled brat.

Yeah.

Just almost like. I don't know, I envision, like, sprinkles. Like someone, like, just sprinkling. Like, you know, like, I just.

I like admiring him or. What does that mean for you in a relationship? Like, what do you envision?

Just really being a grounded present, committed. Like, I'm so committed to anything I do.

Yeah, right.

Committed. Fuel source for his growth, for his mission and. Oh, I'm getting emotional and really committed to hearing him and witnessing him and understanding him and, like, not being like a doormat, but being like a partner but, like, being very willing to. I always say you can either be right, you can either be committed to being right or committed to being in a relationship.

Yeah.

And I think so many people are so committed to being right. And, like, this person will have someone who just wants to be in relationship and understand and just look at anything. Like. Like this person is going to basically get what I've done in my business and in my grief now. And now I get to do a relationship.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

How do I go through this?

Yeah.

How do I bring maternal energy to this?

Yeah.

How do I wake up every day and say, how am I in service and contribution to this? So now it's like, like I said you to about a business. I get up and every day and I'm like, what does my business need for me today? Yeah. Now what does my relationship need for me today?

Yeah.

Because that's gonna be a third entity.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Because it's gonna be me, him, and then the relationship is like a third entity.

Yeah. Yeah, it is.

So it's like, that's what spoiling is going to be. Like a woman who Genuinely. And isn't doing it because I feel like I have to or I should or because it actually brings me joy.

Yeah. Yeah.

And that. That's how I show up for my grief. Like, what did my grief need for me is where it started. Like, what did my grief need for me? Like, do I need to take space today? Do I need to talk to someone today?

Yeah.

Do I need to plan something fun to distract myself today? Like, that's actually kind of where this all begins.

Began. Wow.

Every day, getting up, being like, what does my grief need?

Grief is like, such an initiation to womanhood.

It is. Yeah. Because I had to separate grief from Melissa and see it as an experience.

Oh, wow.

Right. So Aunt Melissa is going through an experience of grief, but this experience is not who she is. Yeah. Right. So that's kind of how it started. Like, what is my grief need for me today? And then I translated to what was my business need for me today? And then now the next iteration gets to be. Because my business is now, like, in college.

Yeah.

Like, it's running.

Yeah.

Like, the team's just doing stuff and everything's running. The clients are being served. And now it gets to be like, what does my relationship need for me? Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. You're gonna be an amazing partner. Wow. Like, damn. All those things you said, I'm always still working on those because it's. I can go into more of the I. The selfish and relationship. So I haven't always been the best partner. And I think that that's something I constantly have to work on. It's like, I think a lot of women, it's like, human. Okay, how do I show up for this day? Okay, how do I. You know? Because I'm so. It's a. Always. Like, when we first met, like, it was so much about, like, I'm the star and it was me, and like, he was being the supporter of me, but then now it's like, it's so. It's hard when you're both like, I both. We both need a supporter role. Right. It's like, you got to support me. I gotta support you. Ah. And so I think it's actually easier when people are more of the traditional roles, but when you have two powerhouses, it's like, wow, it. There's another dynamic there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Amazing. So I just want to end with the story because I think it's. I think it's. There's a powerful underlying message in it that the story of how I'm even sitting here on bed with you at your friend's house that you guys are staying in.

Yeah.

I think it's really powerful for people to hear because I think it speaks into possibility and also trust and creating a reality and just the spiritual me. But genuinely believes that laden led me to you. I don't know if I ever even told you this.

Oh, my God, I do.

So I'm gonna cry. I don't know how the heck I found your podcast. Yeah. I like, somebody I must have known must have shared it on social. Yeah, that's the only thing I can think of. So if you're listening to this, you guys go share podcasts. I'm not even just saying mine. Fine. If you like it. But if you believe in someone's work or message, go share it. Because you don't know who it's gonna land. Because I wasn't in this world. I was a. I was in education.

Right.

I was a yoga teacher.

You know what I mean?

And a high school thought director. Anyways, I found your podcast and you were talking about this mastermind you were doing on the podcast. And I went and I think I DM'd you. And you, like, sent me the landing page link. I was sitting at my former home that I lived in with my former partner, and I was just like, I was super scared. I was a hundred thousand dollars in debt, credit card debt.

Okay.

And a white butterfly came by. And that was Laden sign. And I like, just threw my credit card down right there.

Damn that butterfly.

I just was like, no, I'm being guided. Go do this.

Right.

And. Yeah. And so anyway, so that was. That was the sign. And that was the first program I've ever invested in in this space. I didn't even know this industry existed.

Yeah.

And then I was like, is this real?

It's a world.

Yeah. Yeah. And you just gave me such courage and confidence to show up online when I was petrified.

I know.

And then we just stayed in touch and came to a couple of your in person events. Pays to be brave. I remember.

Oh, my God.

And have just been such a fan of your work and your mission from the beginning. But you were the very, very first mastermind and investment I made that set this entire path and led to the book and led to this podcast.

Wow. Yeah.

And I was scared out of my mind. So anyone listening? Like, it's not about being fearless.

Yeah.

And then look what can evolve.

Oh, my gosh. The catalyst. That's all I want to be. I just want to be a catalyst for it. You are. I just Want to be like the. The leaping pad, like, the little. Like, you can do it. Go. And then you jump and you. You're free falling then. And you got. Then you got it. It. Yeah. And I remember always thinking, like, damn, this girl's gonna go crush it. Really? Oh, yeah. Because you just had that energy too. You could just tell. You're like, oh, people, like, want this. Like, they're really into it and they're gonna go do something and they're gonna, like, go create something amazing. So, yeah, it's. It's so cool. And like, those are my favorite messages to still get. I'm just so grateful from women who are like, yeah, Paisley Brave changed my life. I'm like, what? Like, because I put so much time and money into it, so it is really beautiful to know that something like that really can change people's lives. It inspires me to, like, keep helping women who are kind of like, who you were years and years ago. Right. Who I was years and years ago. Like, who are so new to this and don't know if it's possible. Like, I just want to be the permission slip. Yeah. That they can have a great life, great business. Yeah.

Can women stay tuned for, like, opportunities or ways in which you might be doing that?

Yeah. Might be doing. We'll see. I'm noodling on some stuff, so come follow me. Whether it's a membership site or a mastermind with clay, but yeah, come check me out on Instagram @AngieLee Show AngieLee.com Angie Lee Show Podcast and I would love to connect with you and chat with you and. Yeah, I hope you guys love this. This is an hour and a half, so maybe this is a long one. Yeah. For a long car ride or it's a two parter, but I don't know. I feel like this is like when you binge and. Yeah. In the car. So. Yeah.

Well, just keep it organic.

I'm so grateful, though. It was so good.

Yeah.

You're the best.

So much. You are the best.

Oh, my God, Anytime.

Follow Angie. Stay tuned for what she's creating. Because, you know, and I think you even said, what you just said was, like, all the messages that you're getting and how that feels so much to you. Well, of course, then you're like, you're. You're stepping into that. That feminine and that maternal in a way of taking care of all these women. Right. And supporting them in theirs and getting out of the soft girl era and, like, into, like, the ways in which you show up and so I can't wait to see what you noodle on and decide. Guys, I can't be a vouch for Angie and Clay now anymore. Like, follow their work, follow their. Like, follow everything that they do. And, yeah, Angie, thank you.

Oh, you're the best. Thank you so much. Love you guys.

Bye.