Episode 9: Scar Tissue Uncut: The Strategy Every Founder Needs in 2026

Man, it's like starting a whole brand new business from scratch. It's so much energy. But then when it's also like your soul, like when you feel like naked, you're like, ah, he was like holding the book and it was like, oh my goodness, you know, like I'm bringing this man some peace. And like that right there, it's like all worth it, you know. That's why I think relationships are catalyst for growth. Business is a catalyst for growth, more so than anything because they're going to show you things you can't see yourself. People think brand is font or color palette. It and those are vehicles to bring your brand to life. They're not your brand. Well, like a launch is a launch, is a launch is a launch. Friggin obsessed with launches. They're so fun.

Okay, so I guess we get into branding now. What does it actually mean to build a brand?

People think brand is font or color palette and those are vehicles to bring your brand to life. They're not your brand. It's like a vehicle, it's a tool, your brand. The way I believe it is how people experience you and what they associate you with. And yeah, I mean that's, it's, it's honestly that simple. And all your messaging is a huge part of your brand. The language that you use and then sure, of course, you know, the colors and the feel of them that they create, the fonts that the, the feel that that creates. Like are you soft? You're going to have softer colors. I don't have soft colors. You know what I mean? Like not for my work brand anyways. Right. And then all the different things should be very consistent. What people do is they're kind of all over the place and inconsistent. And I think consistency is incredibly important in brand power.

And what, what does that consistency look like? Like, what are some examples?

I mean I always tell people watch my stories. Every single day you're gonna see me with probably some version of a.

Selfie in the mirror, wearing jeans in black, chance of sage green and showing what I'm doing every day. And it's gonna show commitment, it's gonna show demand. And it's gonna show like, let's fucking gonna show me at the gym. That's gonna show discipline, that's gonna show commitment, that kind of builds brand. When you see that over time, Matcha, people have been seeing me with Matcha for seven years. Now they begin to associate me with the gym. Now they begin to associate me with Matcha. Right. And so all of those Little things, you just have to decide what do you want to be associated with, you know.

And so does that process of like the consistent, like you know, like those little things that you're talking about does that, is that what builds trust in.

A brand A hundred percent? Because how can you trust something that's always changing, right? Like it's just going to change again. People don't.

Understand the impact that can happen when they're pivoting. Shiny object syndrome. They're like, well, I want to do what I'm passionate about. Cool. I'm probably not going to pay you then because your passion could change tomorrow. That doesn't feel dependable, right. Unless I'm paying you to do some creative one time project and you're passionate about it right now. But I'm more around the coaching, consulting, high ticket space. I'm not investing that money if someone feels not dependable.

And why is building a brand the best long term play in business Right now?

People are so quick to say that the industry is saturated and I don't believe that. I think that it's just that it's how economics works, supply and demand. And so as the supply and demand have grown, I think that it's just requiring us to work more strategically to get results. You can't be lazy. That's it. You just can't be lazy. You can't get away with the shit that you could get away with even five years ago. But isn't that great because it's raising the standard of our industry. I hate when people complain about it. It's like what you want mediocracy? I want to be in a field an, an industry of greatness, like push me to be better. Like everyone in the NFL got better. When Tom Brady came around, he raised the standard. Right now the standard is being raised in our industry and it's going to be a separator. My point is that your brand is going to be a major one of the factors in the separator. Because if they're looking at the same exact offer which will happen, the same exact price point which will happen, they're going to make a buying decision based on their association and trust of a brand.

So do you think the competition is getting a lot higher for quality brands or is there a huge gap of like.

I think the gap is widening. I think the gap is widening and it's become very clear who's investing in Brandon, who isn't. And if you're not investing in brand and you're like, well it's too late to start. No, it's not. Because it's not going away. And brand is a long term play. Brand is not built overnight. And that like as somebody who helps people with marketing and branding, when people are like, oh, I want to start to build my brand and they're like, when do I get the roi? It's not going to happen right away. It's like if you're investing in the stock market or you're investing financially, you don't immediately see that. In fact, the more quickly you see things, the more quickly they tend to fall. Right. We're looking to do this over time. That's brand.

And how do you deal with that pressure from when you're trying to help someone build their brand? Like, how do you deal with that pressure of them wanting to get results like immediately?

I don't even let the pressure in. I don't. I just set really clear expectations. The only time I feel pressure is that there's been an expectation I agreed to and there's a gap. So I just did a launch with a client and we agreed to an expectation for a KPI and we hit it, we exceeded it. But leading up to it it was a little tight and we had to get strategic and we had to dig in. And I felt the pressure, but I only felt the pressure because I consented. I consented. That could sound really bad. I consented. I can't.

Send her home.

Too much work, too much mantra, oh my God. But I consented to that KPI. Right? So I will only feel a pressure if it's something that I agree to. When people try to put pressure on me for something I did not agree to or an expectation that I did not say was reasonable, I don't feel the pressure. I just have to clarify the expectation. And a lot of times people are coming from scarcity. What's really hard is that the higher level clientele really get this and they don't operate from scarcity. They're doing very well. It's the ones that are starting and finding their way. They don't quite get this and they're in a little bit of scarcity because understandably they're nervous, but it makes it a lot harder to break through. And so like that newer entrepreneur almost needs to have even more discipline with their mindset because they're going to be pulled into scarcity really quickly because they're afraid. But if you make decisions or you create pressure out of scarcity, it's not going to work.

So when you, when you do Launch your first offer and your offer is tied to someone getting results. Like, that's a very important thing that people need to, you know, as someone that's launching their first offer, they need to really realize.

Yeah. And it's all broken down in the checklist that I made of, like how to actually look at your leads and like set reasonable goals. But.

Yeah, it's really, really important. And that is the only time that I feel pressure is if I agree to a result which I don't do frequently.

Do you think there's more of that when it's a higher ticket offer?

More pressure? Yeah, hell yeah. Yeah. Because every metric counts that much more, you know. Yeah, it's like if I lost a high level account versus a low level account and I'll feel a lot more.

And what does it mean when people say.

Content is the real brand real estate?

Oh, I love this analogy. Okay, I love analogies. I think it's a teacher in me. But think about it. Back in the day, people would spend a lot of money to have a brick and mortar. They pay rent. And I really see social media and like the digital. It's like your digital rent, people don't want to invest in it because they're like, oh, it's free. Sure, it's free to like take up some space, but to be advantageous with it, you know, to have like good foot traffic, it's going to cost you. And so just look at that as your rent of 20, 25, 2026.

And, and if someone is willing to invest more into that, that digital real estate, do they grow faster?

100.

Okay.

It's always a hundred percent. I mean, look, someone could put a lot of money in something, but if they're not good at what they're offering, you know, if they're like out of integrity or it's not authentic, it's not going to work anyways, you know, at least long term. But if it's a good offer and a good brand and clear messaging. Yeah, the more you put into it, the more you're going to get out of it.

And how do you know that you have something like that that's actually good?

Well, that's why in a way, you almost want to start with like small. Like the first launch of anything is really good feedback. Like I always say, don't go to paid ads or any of that until you like master it organically. And so like there is a level of respecting the process of growing and people want to bypass that. And I think you have to respect and honor the process of growing. Like, a baby doesn't become an adult without going through all the stages to become an adult. It's a business. We've talked about this before. You're like, melissa, I've heard you say this 98 times.

Yeah, people want to bypass it. And so it's like you're getting the feedback. You're getting the feedback. You're getting the feedback. And for it to then become its, like, own, you know, offer an identity.

Now sometimes I've worked with clients before where they throw money at it before they even, like, know if it's good. It doesn't solve the problem. Their messaging's off. And now you're kind of just lighting money and fire.

And why is. Why is consistency more important than getting. Than going viral? Virality.

Oh, because.

Okay. Oh, my God, I forgot about this story. This is a great story. So I was just in Arizona, and this is the. This is the power of consistency right here. Like, we're putting the matcha down for this. Okay? Picture. Beautiful hotel room. Okay? You know when you go into the hotel rooms and they have, like, the snacks, okay? So one, they put it in a very good position right across from the bed. I'm staring at it, okay? And it's like, right in my line of sight, right under the TV. And it's like the M&M's and the cookies and the gummy bears and the Sour Patch Kids and all this stuff, right? And I see it and I'm like, oh, no, I don't want it. I don't need it. Nah, I don't want it. I don't need it. I am a big peanut M and M girl, by the way. Big fan, okay? And so I'm staring at it. No, I don't want it. No, I don't want it. After I've seen it enough times, I cave because I can't stop thinking about freaking peanut M&M's because they're in front of my face all the time. Do we not understand? This is how social media and marketing works. People aren't going to say yes right away, but when they can't stop thinking about it because it's something that they like and want. Like, I didn't do it with the gummy bears. That's fine, because there's gonna be a gummy bears person that wants the gummy bears, but I want peanut M&MS. And I have to see it over and over and over and over and over again. I can't stop thinking about it now. I'm gonna take action. What most people do is they put the peanut MMs out there, and the person says, no, I don't need it right now. And then they take it away.

And they're like, oh, it didn't work. People don't want it. No, you gotta keep it out there. And it's only when you're consistently out there. I mean, like, I'm a case study for it. And they were very good peanut MMs. And I did have the cookies, though, Right?

You'll need some of this.

But I didn't have. I'm not. I'm not into the fruity desserts. Like, I didn't have the gummy bears. Sour patch, not my thing.

But you see. Do you see what I'm saying? I know what you're saying on the pin. And, like, it's so true. People will be like, you want the peanut M and M's? And someone's like, no, like, that would have been me. I ended up buying them. But the first eight times, I would have said, no, no, no, no. And it wasn't even them at, like, it wasn't anyone asking me. It was me just seeing it walking by. It seeing it walking by. There they are again. God, they look really good. Oh, there's a lot of blue ones in there. I like the blue ones.

You know.

So it's a big timing thing. You got to be patient.

Consistency. And I think that's why consistency is so important, because just because the moment that you choose to put something out there is not necessarily the moment someone's ready to buy. So you have to constantly put it out there. So the moment they're ready to buy it is there. That's it.

And also, you're way more prepared when you're consistent rather than if you do go viral. When you're unprepared, you're scrambling, you don't know what to do, and you waste that attention 100%.

100%. It's wasted attention. And attention is the currency of 2025 and 2026. Arguably always. It's just way more clear now with online social media and digital footprints.

What's some signs that a brand is unclear.

And it's costing you, you know, maybe money or wasted attention.

Like, if you're not even sure what someone does or what problem they solve for you or, like, what they stand for, you know, or what they don't stand for. But it's like, yeah, I mean, if. It's just.

If you have to think hard about explaining who someone Is and what they do, like, oh, that's Melissa. She's like marketing and launches. Pretty clear, right? And she's really fucking weird. You know what I mean?

You know, she drinks a lot of Matcha. Yeah, like, I'm pretty clear. She likes to throw a bar bill around. She drives an atv. Like, people will know my things.

Right? Ubp, Unique brand positioning. Notice the things that I pointed out, I build intentionally because they are unique. Driving the ATV is pretty unique. I talk about that. You know, living in Mexico is pretty unique. I talk about that. Like, Matcha is not super unique anymore. But it was seven years ago when I started. I started the trend.

Hipster stuff.

Okay, let's. Let's talk about some leadership now. What was your point of no return and when were you knew you weren't going back?

Oh, Brick definitely put the my speech in chat GBT and had them pull questions because.

Is that what this is?

Yeah, 100%. I'm on to you, Brit.

I know what you did. You know what you did last night? No, I think we skipped that one.

What does it look like to lead yourself through growth?

H. How to lead yourself through growth?

Dude, I just had a lot of caffeine.

You're tweaking.

Whoa.

Roller out of here.

Let's see. To lead yourself through growth, I think, is to seek out the burn. It's to seek out the burn and not too resistant. Not to run from it and not to be passive. To actually co create and seek it out. Where is my new edge today?

And how do you know you have.

That edge when you kind of want to pee your pants and vomit at the same time?

You know, like when you're like, this is uncomfortable, like, I feel like I'm gonna vomit, you know, or I'm second guessing, or I'm in my head.

It could just be a little thing. I sent a text message today and like a group that was like a little bit more bold. And then I get my head. Melissa, were you being pure honest? Were you saying what you think is right? Okay, so what's coming up for you? You're afraid that it's gonna offend someone. Can you fucking let that go? That was. That was just a little burn. It's like, oh, this burns. You know, I do it to myself all the time. I'm like, oh, this burns. It does.

Is it important to recognize that a hundred percent? Yeah, 100%.

And I always say witness. Like, can you witness the fact that something burns and like, not make it wrong? Just witness it.

How do you know, when you're outgrowing someone or something.

So hard to completely pinpoint when you're outgrowing someone or something.

Different ways. Like, I've known that I'm outgrowing maybe a client account or type of work if I start to feel resistant to it, like, I don't want to do it.

Or maybe the investment isn't enough anymore.

I'd say when you can't have conversations that are relatable, when you're just, like, not fully being yourself. And that's really hard because, you know, we think that everything is forever. My feet are falling asleep again.

They are like, am I okay? The way I'm sitting right now, My feet keep falling asleep. You know, we think that everything needs to be forever, and we have a really hard time. Like, one thing's change is human, right? It shakes our sense of self or whatever it may be. And I think it's like just seeing everything is, like, beautiful for the time and the purpose that it served in your life. You know, like, even past relationships that were, like, painful, even hurtful, I am just grateful for them because they all served a purpose for where I am and who I am, what I learned. And there are, like, a lot of things that I'd redo in my life, to be totally honest, but at the same time, would I, because everything was a part of the lesson and the unfolding. It's a really interesting thing to look at, but I think you. You will know when you've outgrown someone. It's just, are you willing to admit it? You know, you'll kind of, like, feel a little resistance or maybe avoidant or you don't really know what to talk about or. It feels forced. It feels like work. Oh, that's a good way to put it. Whether it's like a client or someone in your personal life, when it feels like work to me, I know that it's like, not in alignment, and I don't mean, like, work of, like, I don't. Because alignment can be very much weaponized, right? Not everything is supposed to feel good all the time. Not everything's supposed to feel good in a relationship, in your business. It's not always in your workouts, in your fitness. It's not always supposed to feel good. I hate when people confuse alignment with feeling good. Feeling good and aligning are two different things. Off my soapbox on that one. What I was saying was when something's not in alignment in work or in relationship, you will feel it, and it will begin to feel like work. And I don't consider what I do work. It's play, it's creation, it's impact, it's ideation, it's strategy, it's leadership. Work, to me, is heavy, you know, and if a relationship feels like work, something's off. Doesn't mean you're not going to put in the work at times. Of course you are. You know, it's always a lot of discernment, Steve.

There is. Yeah, that's really profound. That's. That's a good one. That's a really good point.

What's your advice for women who's afraid of being judged as she grows?

You know, what's interesting is that I've. I've worked with a lot of women who.

Really break through the being everyone's friend. And honestly, if you want to make massive impact, you're not going to be everyone's friend. And so if you're afraid of being judged, I would ask, why are you giving so much power away to what other people think of you? That's it. Nothing to do with anyone else. You get to choose how much power anyone else has or how much of a vote. Right. Like, you only get a vote in my life if I give you a vote. Right. It's interesting.

Last night.

Was bringing me to the airport, we're talking about giving power away. And he said, well, where do you give your power away? I was like, a lot of places. We all do. And it's like, the more you're aware of it, the more you can take it back. But I want you to think about, like, your power like a ballot, like a vote. And so if I give it to. If I. You can. Someone only gets a vote if you give them a vote. So if someone's judging me, it only matters if I give them a vote that, like, it matters if I don't give them that vote. It doesn't fucking matter if they're judging me. So anytime, like, I give my power away, it's because I'm giving a vote to a place that might not serve. Should they even get a vote? That person living the life I want, you know, I don't know. Does that make sense?

So you only give votes to people you truly trust.

Yeah. That you truly trust and that, like, I mean, look, I really trust my brother. I have three brothers. I really trust my brothers. But I'm probably not giving them votes and, like, business decisions because they don't understand this industry. Right. And they think it's weird. Like, Melissa, when are you gonna get A real job, you know, so it's not just trust, you know, Like I might, I might give a vote to a mentor coach who I've paid to help me with something, but maybe I don't like, know them at a personal level, but I'm still giving them a vote, you know, so it's more earned.

And it can be earned in different ways.

It can be earned in different ways. Yeah. And also don't give away a lot of ballots.

Not that many people should be getting.

Ballots because then it loses its power.

It loses its power and then you lose your identity and you wonder why you don't know who you are. You're giving everyone in their frickin mother a vote on who you are. Like, I really do not give a lot of people.

Like honestly my team.

Like a couple of really close people in my life.

And like my mentor, you know, business partners, you know what I mean? And that's it. But you just, you just can't. You exhaust yourself.

And those people, when you do find that, you know, you're very selective, who you give those votes to, what does that feedback from those votes mean to you?

It's everything. And I purposefully choose ones that will be honest enough to tell me where I'm falling short like I want. Just like I said, I'm a champion, not a cheerleader. I don't want cheerleaders getting my votes. I want champions who they see my greatness and they're gonna hold me to it. You know, they see me like kind of like falling a little bit. I want them to tell me it's the only way. I want someone who's like, great job, it's okay. No, Melissa, I actually think that you like, really could have showed up more powerfully here. Thank you. Tell me.

It's our ego who wants a cheerleader. It's our greatness that wants a champion.

Okay, now we're getting some.

Some about your scar tissue and personal power.

What did grief teach you about going all in?

Grief taught me everything about going all in more. I mean, grief looks a lot of different ways. It's not just death. So it was actually more when my daughter was dying because when I looked at her, I wanted to lean out because maybe it would hurt less. So if I didn't love as hard, then if she died, then maybe it wouldn't hurt as much. And I like made a decision of like, no, no, you're going all in. And this is where we attach to the process, not the outcome. And this girl deserves for you to Go all in. And so I've shared stories before, and they're all in the book, but I was crazy mom, because crazy mom and fighting in every possible way I could with and for her. And I'd say that after she died, one of the greatest pieces of comfort for me was knowing that I went all in and left it all in the field. And it's kind of something I was talking about with you earlier is that I want to live my life in a way so that no matter what, I look back and just feel good that I left it all in the field.

And how did that transition to, like, your leadership qualities?

Yeah, I mean, my team knows that my commitment level is unmatched. Right. And.

And always looking at how do I get better. I mean, I am committed to improvement. I'm committed to growth. I'm committed to looking in my own mirror. You know, it's like, honestly, people are so worried about, like, you know, not being perfect. None of us are perfect. Like, spoiler alert. You know, I hate to break into your ego, but you're not perfect. But, like, it's like any PR agency would tell you, get in front of it. Get in front of your stuff. Go look at it. So anyways, I bring that to my leadership and my team, and I'm all in. And my team knows that, you know, and we're always attaching to the process, not the outcome.

And what do you say to the people who feel like their grief is too small to matter?

Yeah. So the way that I teach it, I wish I had a whiteboard. Where's the whiteboard is depth chart, not hierarchy. So when people get into that conversation, they're creating a hierarchy of grief. Can you see this? And they're putting, like, me bereave mom up top here. Right. But the way I see it is we flip it, and it's just a depth chart, but it's all grief. And so the one up top is gonna have the most width. It could be very simple. You know, it could be moving. That's grief, right? Right. The very bottom is going to be the depth of really the love and the impact that that loss had. But it's not a hierarchy or a better than. It's just a depth chart. And they all have to be tended to, because if they're not, it becomes explosions. Like, legit explosions.

And what. What do you mean by explosions?

Like, if we think of, like, the depth chart and that's down there, and let's just say gets buried, buried, buried, buried, buried, buried. Eventually, something's going to happen where it's like Bing, you know, like, I mean obviously we have extremes in our society we can all look at, but it could be like losing your temper on a significant other. Right. For some people it's like using substances. Could be shopping to get a lot of. That's the numbing, not the explosion. But like if the explosion happens, I mean it could be relationship, it could be road rage, you know, could be snapping at the barista. But like it will come out. That's why I like exercise.

And when it does come out, if you do ever, you know, maybe even looking back what time that you did snap. Oh yeah, like how do you, how do you like learn from that? How do you recenter yourself?

Yeah, I have a whole chapter, it's chapter three in my book. It's on capacity. And imagine that you're like an, like an oxygen tank or something. And like the more that's in there already, like the pressure and then if we try and put more in it like explodes. But like let's say it's, the tank is pretty empty, then we can just keep putting more in, Keep putting more and keep putting more in. So I say you always have to know like where your tank is at. And it's a skill, it's a muscle to be able to recognize it and identify it on any given day.

I say that taking my dog for a walk is the way in which I identify in the morning. Because some mornings I'm like, oh Tajin, Tajin is my little pug. Tahin, you're so cute. Like you're sniffing the leaf and you're taking nine hours, you're so sweet. Like taking video. And then other morning, same exact behavior, same exact walk. And I'm like, Tajin, what the fuck is so interesting about that leaf? We gotta go. Tajin didn't change. The walk didn't change. Is me. And people don't do that. They don't look within first. Always look within first. Always, always. Anything that comes up, pull out the mirror and be like, what's coming up for me right now? Right when you do it day after day after day after day, you don't have to do it. It just naturally happens. So I'm very well aware of my capacity and what I can take on and what I can't.

And then, and then how do you say maybe there was a big blow up, you know, the explosion as you say, and you, you hurt some other people, someone else. Yeah, how do you, how do you heal that? When you, when you do it for yourself. How do you heal the other person as well?

It's such a good question. I've done that and it sucks.

It is the worst thing, worst feeling to act in a way that you are not proud of, that spills onto other people in your life. I'm done. It. I know it makes me human and I know all of us having our own way, but it's. It's like the worst feeling. I think it requires a real deep level of radical responsibility. And looking at, I think first of all, the why, because we can go to beating ourselves up, beating ourselves up, beating ourselves up. But, you know, beating yourself up is actually ego. It really is. Instead of like, how am I in a growth mindset of how are we moving forward? Because beating yourself up can't exist with a growth mindset. And we only learn and grow in a growth mindset. Therefore, you can't beat yourself up. So.

I would always look at the why. Why did I act that way?

Why did I have that response?

And that will bring you the clarity. And you know, for me, it's been a number of different things. I mean.

You know, more recently it was like I was over capacity, which we just talked about with the book publishing, with the conversation I'd had with my publisher. So when one other conversation came up that normally wouldn't be a big deal, I just could. I just couldn't handle it. Right. Another time there was something where, like, I kept stuffing. I was in a situation where I kept stuffing down my needs because I felt a little trapped. And if I expressed my needs, I was afraid that I was gonna be like reprimanded or banished or whatever. In responsibility. I kept choosing to stuff down my needs, stuff down my needs, stuff down my needs, stuff down my needs. Well, what happens when you do that for so long? Comes out. And so I had to be in responsibility that I was stuffing down my needs. And I had to do one of two things. I had to either get really comfortable asserting my needs regularly or leave the situation. That's it. Again, it's all about responsibility now. Oh, just to answer the last part on other people, I think you have to have a real honest conversation. And if it becomes a pattern, you're gonna. That is gonna be lost trust, Right. If it's a one off that creates growth, this could actually become a more intimate opportunity for somebody else. You and somebody else, because they witnessed you and you're messy and they loved you and you're messy and you grew from that and then you grew together.

But it takes the courage to have that conversation.

Totally.

Most people never have.

No. They like to sweep things under the rug.

Yeah. They're like golden broom. Golden broom.

Why do you think people do that?

Because they haven't built a muscle of being uncomfortable. And uncomfortable. It is a muscle. Get uncomfortable every day. It's why I get myself uncomfortable physically at the gym. Because when I feel myself being like, oh, I don't want to go. I don't want to do that. I want to push that hard. It's like, get uncomfortable, Melissa, and get used to it. And I just think that's really important.

It could also be, like, maybe they had an upbringing where no one talked about things. There is always a level of environment. It could be that when they did talk about things, they were reprimanded, abandoned, gaslit. So maybe they have to develop safety in talking about things. Actually, that's a really important point that I just made. I'm like, good job.

Please continue.

Oh, my God. Oh, I don't know. All right.

I actually think that's probably it.

That's all there is to it.

I need bed. I'm coming off my caffeine high. It's like. It's like the crash now.

No, I actually. That's it. I think they probably haven't developed safety in speaking their truths and speaking about uncomfortable things. My guess is that it led to fights or this or that or that.

It's like, I know part of my responsibility in my relationships, so in my partnership with my team members, with my clients, is creating an environment that feels very safe to talk about uncomfortable truths. And not by being a cheerleader, but by being able to hold it and not react. Like, let somebody say something that's really uncomfortable to hear. Don't react, and don't take it personally. And if I cannot react and not take it personally and honor their experience for them, honor their truth, even if we have to respectfully disagree. Right. Even if it's just me listening. But I think a lot of people brush things under the rug because they haven't experienced what it's like to be in healthy dialogue of uncomfortable things. Yeah, that's what I think.

Do you think that's harder for women to. Because, you know, like, women, they like to hold a lot of stuff in. They say, oh, I'm fine. You know, like, you know, in relationships, and. Or do you think it goes both ways?

I'm like, well, that. That's not me. I'm, like, thinking out loud. I should probably hold more stuff in.

Yeah, I should probably hold more stuff in. I think that women often come up against being too much and I think men come up against feeling like they're not enough. And so those can feed off each other in wild ways.

But I think women will hold stuff in because they don't want to be seen as too dramatic, too needy, too, too emotional, too this too, too, too, too, too. Right. And then. But that will not work over time. Yeah. Usually, like if a woman goes crazy, it wasn't that moment. Right. Remember we talked about launches and how like the launches, it's everything leading up to it. Yeah. If a woman launches her shit, it was a lot leading up to it.

Yeah, that's very true. What's someone, what's something no one told you about grief and entrepreneurship?

Well, grief and entrepreneurship are so entangled for me.

Because they just like, they're just. They put a magnifying glass on everything. Everything, if you're willing to look. I think a lot of people misunderstand in entrepreneurship and in grief, the level of responsibility. Everyone's like, I want freedom. Well, guess what? The freedom. The more freedom you have, the more responsibility you have. Honestly, like someone telling you when to work, when not to work, when to take lunch break, how many vacation days, putting in for requests, you're actually in a hell of a lot less responsibility. You're just following. You're just like head down following the rules. Right. But like when you are constantly making every decision that's going to impact like the growth, clients, yourself, business, like, that's a lot more responsibility. So I think like, the more freedom there is, I actually think the more responsibility there is. But then in grief, I don't think people talk about the love or responsibility that comes with it. Just because you didn't choose it.

Doesn'T mean it's not your responsibility to heal it. And a lot of people skirt responsibility because there's a level of victim and grief inherently.

But there's so much responsibility in healing it. Because as I say in my book, like, grief is not a blank check to be an asshole.

Not. And I had a blank check that I wanted to cash in for a while because I was so angry. But like, imagine if I hadn't taken responsibility, we definitely wouldn't be here. I wouldn't be running a business, you know, and so it's like, it's also an opportunity to live your life in a way you've never lived before.

So yeah, it's like from live transcripts and real convos. Just wanted to make sure, like I get you Know what she needed to go through these things. Is there anything that stands out? Brant Lab business insights?

No, not that I can think of.

You have any good funny stories recently?

I know, I don't know.

You don't know from the book anything? You know, like.

The book tour has been super fun. Yeah, it's been wild. It's weird to like be signing books like I'm sure you see with Daniel, you know, celebrity. It's like weird. Yeah, just meeting humans has been really cool the amount of people have stories. You know, there's a whole chapter in my book called Sonder, which means like everyone around you is carrying a story you know nothing about. So like I wrote a chapter on that. But I mean, I can't even tell you. I mean, just at this event I was just at in Arizona, I was like, this person lost their child, that person lost their child, that person lost his wife. Like, that person was going through a divorce, that woman left an abusive relationship. Like all these stories and we're in this room of business growth and like, yeah, brand and marketing messaging. Let's strip all that down and see the human.

And that's actually really what I talked about and landed my, my third day of speaking because I'd gotten more clear and I didn't. I don't plan, you know me, I'm like, I don't plan my speeches right. I just get up there and riff. But I done tactical and I had done also kind of mindset. And what I realized after like hearing everyone's stories for three days, like, I think if you really want to elevate your brand and your business, it comes down to two things. Mastery of your skill set and humanity.

And you have to remember both because every single person in that room wanted to elevate their business. And they also all had a story. And I can't just overlook that. You know, the last event I was at back in New Jersey for my book, you know, someone had just buried his 12 year old nephew the weekend before someone's sister had been murdered weeks before. Like it was like, you just can't even. You know what I mean? Now, had I not shared my story, I would have just walked by all these people and had no idea.

And how much I would have missed, you know, the number one, why do my feet keep falling asleep?

But then my legs are too short to reach the ground, so it's like I kind of have to sit cross legged. And then I sit cross legged and they fall asleep. I have to shake him. It probably looks funny. It's all red.

It is already. See, like, all the blood rushing to my foot now, Right? You see that?

It kind of looks like a creepy superhero. Foot.

Foot.

Yeah. I have little feet, though. My veins are popping. Anyways, what was I saying?

Yeah. You know, do you just think about, like, you know, how surreal it is just. Just, like, you know, because we go to so many of these events about personal growth and how to level up your business, but you never know that, you know, this person's going through this, you know, right next to you, and you finally created that environment where people are.

That's exactly it. I can't tell you how many people came up to me and said, I cracked them. I think that might be my superpower. What do you think?

I think so.

Of course you're gonna agree with me. He's on camera.

But why do you think?

Because I've just had so many people tell me that I've, like, just softened them and cracked them. But I think you can only soften people not by being soft. It's like you have to have this balance of, like, you are holding them in it. Like I'm holding you in it. But I'm also going to be soft enough so you can, like, melt. I had a woman come to me and was like, my kids call me the Ice Queen, and you had me crying. She was like, I don't know. The last time I cried, I had another woman she was bringing. Hilarious. She comes up to me and she goes, you went up on stage? And I was like.

I was like, okay. You know? And she's like, and then you cracked me. She's like, I just come say thank you. I've never had anyone get my walls down like you ever, that I can think of. I'm like, that was just from stage, you know? But I think what I do is I really hold people in it, but I witness and I don't judge. I always say in messaging and marketing, you have to get people to lower the pitchfork, or they can't even get your message right because they're defensive. And I think the way that I interact with people, I can get them to lower their pitchfork, but I hold them in it. So when we're holding ourselves in the burn in the fire and the defenses are down.

Now we're melting away something.

And do you feel something, like, spiritually, when you see someone, when you feel like you crack someone to realize. Yeah, you see it in their face. Like, what does that look like for you?

You can just feel it, you know, you Can. I can feel it. Anytime I'm speaking on stage, like, in the room, I can feel when something's landing. It's why I don't do teleprompters or scripts.

How can I serve someone if I'm just reading a script? You know, I read the room. I feel the room.

I'll play off of, like, commentary I hear, you know, But I definitely can feel it. Sometimes I get goosebumps. I think you remember there have been times, like, I think when we were in Miami recording one time recently, or I was speaking. I was speaking at one of the masterminds, and we were in Miami, and I got goosebumps. And I was like, oh, I got goosebumps. Like, it's like when I'm sourcing. And I kept getting them on this one topic, and I'm, like, looking at the people in the front are like, you see my goosebumps, right? And they're like, who are you? Where's Daniel? I'm like, no, look, Goosebumps. Well, I get goosebumps a lot. Like, when there's something magical. Like, I don't just, like, get goosebumps randomly. It's like, something magical. So when I'm on stage and I get goosebumps, I know that I'm, like, sourcing a message that needs to be sourced.

How can other people tap into that? Because I think a lot of us are numb to that. A lot of us, especially women, that you really have sensitive, you know, sensitivity to that kind of feeling. Like, how do you. How do you get rid of that numbness? And actually, is it through getting, you know, cracked, as you say?

Yeah, you gotta crack yourself. Like, I can. You can only do for other people what you can do for yourself, really. And I think that I can. I crack walls of myself all the time.

I look in the mirror, I stand in the burn, you know, but think about, like, if we're talking about, like, channeling, if we want to get into that, you know, however you interpret channeling or what your purpose is. Imagine, like, I got this hose coming out of Melissa, right up to whatever you believe in. Ow. I'm gonna see that hair. I hope my deodorant wasn't messy there when I raised my arms.

Okay, but imagine I have a hose, and now I'm nervous. Like, I'm nervous. I'm like, missy, I've been traveling all day.

Put my hair back. Okay, Melissa, stay out, focused. Like a hose, right? Now imagine that there is, like, a block you can't even receive. Or imagine that Hose has like a lot of debris in it. Like, stuff that's built up, like, clunk, limiting beliefs, stories, ego. Until you clean and clear like yourself, stuff's not going to flow through. And so it's like you have to clean and clear yourself. I can all, like, I am within, within five seconds of being around someone, I can tell where they're vibrating energetically, literally. And I don't do it with judgment. It's just I've done so much work, it's like you can spot it. I couldn't have done that five years ago, you know, but it's just like you practice, you know, and that's why, like, I only trust someone to the level in which I can tell that they operate at.

Because in their minds they might not be lying. They just don't have the tools or the skill set to be that higher level of honesty or truth or to see something without bias or to see something without ego. And so somebody might really be convicted in what they believe in. But if I know they're operating at a vibration that is very much rooted in like, bias or ego, I'm not going to listen to them. Not because I don't trust them because they're being honest. It's because I don't trust the level at which they can operate at their highest for my own decision making. Does that make sense?

It does make sense. And that's very important that you know what you're saying there. It's very important because I do notice that a lot, like, just like the numbness in society, just. Yeah. And, and yeah, you just gotta have the courage to, to, you know, go through the burn, as you say.

Yeah.

And it's worth it when you do, when you can actually eventually feel right. Makes life so fulfilling.

Right. But if someone's operating at a, a vibration of like, victim or numb or.

You know what I mean? Like, it's not that I don't trust them, but I'm not giving them a ballot or a vote. I want the energy in my space and I don't judge them. I think it's really important. People think that boundaries mean judging, but boundaries and judgment are two very different things.

Like, in fact.

I would argue that if you have judgment with your boundaries that you're weaponizing boundaries.

True boundaries are just rooted in neutrality or love. And you can't have judgment with neutrality and love. So if it's like a boundary from judgment, you're actually kind of in a low vibration. Oh yeah. People weaponize boundaries all the time. Top things I hear weaponized.

Weaponized terms out there. Alignment.

Manifestation.

Boundaries. These are all weaponized all the time.

Like the fact that it has to feel good. It doesn't feel good in my body. Well, yeah, probably because you're on a new edge.

A boundary is being weaponized if you're using it punitively or to teach someone a lesson or that's like an aggressive way of using a boundary. Other times I see people think I'm drawing a boundary. No, that's avoidance, honey. That's avoidance. That's not a boundary you are completely avoiding. Happens all the time. I've had it happen to me. You know, I'm just drawing a boundary. Like, if you're not willing to have the difficult. It depends on the depth of a relationship too. But if there's like, a deep relationship and you are not willing to have the difficult conversation and you just draw a boundary, you're just drawing a line in the sand through avoidance and calling it a boundary.

That's it. So that's weaponizing them.

And they say it with conviction.

Oh, yeah. And like, righteousness. I drew a boundary, right? No, you're avoiding. Right. A boundary usually can come as, like, an agreed upon line in the sand. Often. I mean, sometimes you. Look, there's all different levels of boundaries. We could literally do an entire day on boundaries. Sometimes a boundary can be drawn just by. By one person. Right. Many, many different ways you can draw boundaries, but. Yeah, but they can. They can be weaponized. There can be levels of righteousness, avoidance.

Passive aggressiveness. It can be too. Like, especially when there's judgment around it. Alignment's another big one that's weaponized. Well, it doesn't feel an alignment. What? You know, you mean it's not your comfort zone? You know, I don't know. Like, that's the biggest one that I see around. That or I'm just. I'm manifesting. It can also be like, avoidance, and you're skirting responsibility. How are you creating it? Like, I believe, you know me, I have a spiritual side. I have crystals in my bag. Okay.

Well, like, I don't think that the manifestation and the energetics is a replacement to the action that is required to create what you want to create. What do you think.

That'S important? Because, like, you, like, we're. Like. I was saying, like, there's so many people that speak with so much conviction online about these things. Influencers, you know.

Oh, yeah.

And it's like you end up following the wrong person. They could be, like a total narcissist. Right. They're just using it to suck your energy, you know?

Oh, my God, you nailed it. Narcissism and conviction.

Online influencer speaking with conviction with these.

Yeah, yeah. And like.

Especially if you're listening and you're like, empathetic, you got to be really careful because narcissist will play on needing help.

Like, they will play the like, needing help, the victim card like no other. And there's so many different ways. I mean, narcissism can be thrown around a lot too, to be honest. Right. I don't like to label anything, but. Oh, it's a thing. He's a thing. Yeah, that was a thing.

Because, like, I mean, what you teach us, growing brands. Right. And like, getting attention.

Totally.

And sometimes that, that could change someone. Like, what's the dark side of getting a lot of attention that you see that maybe someone's not ready to deal with?

Well, it's such a good reminder that there's light and dark to everything. Everything has light and dark. We've talked about this before. High achieving work ethic has a dark side. So you don't harness it. Right. It's just like, can you clear the shadow? That's why they call it shadow work. Right. Can you clear the shadow and keep. Oh, hands are flying. When we talk about shadows.

Can we clear the shadow and keep the light? Right. But yeah, a lot of. I mean, it's always, I think it comes down to the why. And so there are people who are building their brands or their marketing because of what it looks like, not what it feels like, because it's about them, not how it serves. Yeah. And that was a big part of why I actually didn't want to get into this industry or get into marketing, messaging, branding, because I thought it was all fake. And it's not. There's a lot of really good people out there. A lot of really good people out there. But there's a lot of fake and bullshit and smoke and mirrors out there. But what I realized is that I can't take out the fake or the inauthentic, but I can offer the alternative to it. And I think that's all we can do. We need more good, authentic people playing a bigger game, being louder. That's. That's all we can do. But yeah, there's a lot of people who are driven. I don't even think they realize it.

Yeah. So I'm saying maybe, maybe it just hits them and they weren't ready for it. And then maybe they go towards more darker narcissistic. Path because, yeah, you know, there was some unresolved trauma there. And 100%, it's attention out of nowhere, which you see it online with, you know, a lot of these influencer celebrities, and they end up destroying their lives.

100%. Yep. 100%. Yeah, there's definitely gonna be that. Where it's that quick, and it. It changes their whole perception of self. You know, it's like, why we have to have a really strong connection of ourself. And then what happens if, like, the fame goes away, too? If that was their whole identity, that was a lesson from grief. When I lost my daughter, I realized, like, how much. How quickly my identity became a mother. And then it's like, okay, how do you never lose yourself again? And that was a really hard one. Like, how do you create your identity that's stronger than any role or title? And it's like, you got really. You got really. We gotta really connect with yourself there, Melissa. You know, so it's like, no matter what you're doing, the doing is just the title. Who are you being? I mean, I think it takes practice, but, like, I always come back to, like. Like, am I. Am I pure? Am I genuine? Like, is this true to me? You know? Like, I don't know. When I first. When I first tried getting into this whole wild west of entrepreneurship, it was like I was trying to do what I thought I was supposed to do. Dress a certain way, do a certain thing.

And it's funny, if I look back at photos, you can almost see that. And if I look at photos now, it's like I can almost. You can almost see energy in photos. Have you noticed that?

Yeah.

Like, you can see energy between couples, right? Or people or friends. And you can see energy around a person in photos. When you really pay attention, you can tell when it's performative and when it's embodied. And so I say, like, it's so easy for me to speak and riff. Like, they added me on Sunday. I had nothing prepped. I honestly didn't prep any of the days. Sorry, Jelly. But I don't need to because it's just embodied. And I just read the room and I source. Right. I'm not performing. When I first got into this industry, and I didn't really know what I was doing, it was, like, almost. It wasn't intentionally performative. I just didn't really know what to do. And then the more I, like, kind of figured out myself, and it's like, you have to be willing to know who you're being. You have to be willing to know who you're not, and you have to be okay with other people not liking you. If everyone likes you, you stand for nothing. Nothing. Can you think of anyone, honestly, like, I'm not. I'm not looking for you to like people please me here. You know that. Can you think of anyone who has done anything extraordinary, who has been liked by everyone?

Right. I genuinely can't think of anyone. Not even Tom Brady.

Gate, then you guys are also sensitive about that.

Bend the rules, don't break them. Yeah, I'm trying to think, like, I can't think of anyone.

So that should be pretty clear, right?

Like, if you want to do something extraordinary, you want to play at a big level, there are prices to that. There are prices to every level of the game. And I say that.

I say that every level of the game. It's like Mario Brothers. Do you play Mario Brothers? Oh, my God. Mario 3.

I. I got into more, like, the newer ones.

Am I aging myself?

You didn't have, like, the old gray box you could, like, bang on?

I mean, yeah, just. It was. I was too young to, like, carry that.

Oh, my God. Well, you just aged herself, folks. Okay, well, so for me, it was Mario 3. And, like, getting from level one to level two was pretty easy, right? Getting from level four to level five was harder. Getting from, like, level nine to Bowser's Castle was really freaking hard. There was less room for error. There was more pressure. You had less time to, like, make the jumps and all the things. And, like, when you would make a jump, the things were a lot freaking smaller. You know what I'm talking about? That's life. That's business. Getting from level one to two. Yeah, not that hard. Four to five, a little bit harder. Nine to ten, it's a lot harder. Even if we're only talking about up, leveling one level every single situation, the higher the level, one level up becomes that much harder. The prices that you pay will be higher, too. Whether it's financial. You're going to pay more money to play at bigger levels, right? So they say, like, the bigger the business, the bigger the problems. It's, like, not untrue. It's just. You know, I said this on my speech. It's that people, like, get so thrown off by curveballs. And it's like, when we know that a curveball is inevitable, at what point do we stop being surprised by curveballs? Oh, my God. The flight's delayed. Shit's gonna happen.

That client contract canceled. Another one's gonna come along. People give their talk about giving your power to give their power away to circumstance all the time. Not just people. Circumstance. Oh, this is one, Steve. I could freaking go on forever. I'm gonna wait to build my business until I can go all in. Can we just talk about this for a second?

I'm gonna wait to build my business so I can go all in. Okay, so why can't you go all in right now? Oh, well, you know, this with the kids or this with travel or, you know, fixing this in the car. Okay, so what I hear is that somebody is going to put an on switch on their business when nothing else in life is happening. Nothing else in life is happening. And then the second they have to fix their car again or their kids need something or they're traveling, they're going to hit off, they're going to go on, and then they're going to go off. It's like starting a car. You know how much more it takes to start the car than just keep it running. They're going, start, stop, start, stop, start, stop. One, it's a lot harder. Two, you're not going to get momentum. And three, it's so unrealistic. What people don't understand is like, what is your all in on any given day? Okay, so you're traveling. So I'm traveling right now. So my work schedule looks a little bit different. But I'm not like, oh, I'm going to stop running the business while I'm traveling. It's like, oh, okay, I'm going to give myself, like, I'm going to set less priorities from what I normally do. That makes sense. So, yeah, that drives me crazy because I'm like, well, you're saying that you're only going to run your business when life isn't lifing. How about you learn how to build your business when life is lifing, so then when life lifes, you don't freak out because you've actually built it through that. You're not setting your business up to win. You are absolutely not setting your business up to win. If you only want to build it when everything's convenient and life isn't lifing, you're creating a circumstantial business. That's it.