Hormones and Healthy Skin with Neada Deters & Morgane Leten

Welcome to beyond the Cycle, the podcast that's here to help you take control of your hormonal health and feel good every day. No matter where you are in life, whether you're thinking about quitting the pill, navigating a regular cycle, have no cycle at all, or transitioning into menopause, this is the perfect place for honest conversations and expert insights.

I want to try everything. I don't care. Just give me the thing that works and that tomorrow I wake up with, like, a clear skin.

So get ready for some real talk. This is beyond the Cycle. We're thrilled to have Nida Deirtas. She is the founder and CEO of les, a line of uncompromising and organic skincare essentials. Born and raised in Sydney, she spent her 20s in New York City working in fashion and media, spent some time in Los Angeles, and now is back living in New York City. Nida is joined by Morgan Lehrten, co founder of Good Woman, and together they'll share their expertise on how skin health is connected to our hormones, diagnosis, diet, and skincare routines. Welcome to our New York podcast studio, Nida and Morgan.

Hello.

Hello. I have been told that you've met before. That's right.

Yeah, that's right. Actually, we met at my house. So it was maybe 2018 or 2019, something like that.

Yeah.

And I was hosting an intimate talk with a small group of women in my home in la, and. And there she was. I remember I have a photo from that night. I think that you.

I asked to take a picture. Yeah. We have a selfie together. So.

That's right. That's right.

So that was 2018, 1919. You found a mess.

Okay.

It's a skincare brand known for its focus on simplicity, natural ingredients. Did a personal experience inspire you to start the brand?

Yes, it was a very personal journey. I was an editor, actually, writing about skin, writing about beauty, talking to experts from around the world, and trying, you know, all products on the market. And during that time. So this is throughout my entire 20s, I really struggled with my own skin. I had hormonal, cystic acne and hyperpigmentation and chronic sensitivity. And after, you know, being in this position where I had access to all of these experts and all of these products and seeing that none of these products were working, I came to the realization after about a decade of searching, that if I wanted to find a solution, I would have to create one. And I've, you know, seen such a change in my own skin. And we definitely, you know, I think the most rewarding Part of the job is really to see how it helps others.

Is that something you can relate to?

Yeah, because we also created, well, not skincare, but supplements. And one of the products we developed, it was also to maintain healthy skin. And for me, it was also important to have that product because I also struggled with acne. And I think only people who had acne or have acne really know how it feels to have it. I could cry still if I think about how I felt when my face was covered with acne. You feel.

Ugly.

You say the worst words every time when you look in the mirror. And for me, it was really important to like, develop that kind of product so that it could also help people. And then you get, like, reviews on your product that it really helps. And this is the best, I think.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you really. It is so disempowering to feel as though your skin is out of your control. And there are so many factors at play. Obviously we'll cover so many of those in this conversation, I'm sure. But, you know, I really understand the journey that you had. There were many days when I felt like I really didn't feel like I had the confidence to leave my apartment. And, you know, seeing that change and, you know, in not just yourself but in others is the most rewarding part of the job.

Sometimes I still dream about having, like, big pimples. Well, it's a nightmare when I. When I have those dreams and then I wake up and it's like, wow. Because now I'm really proud and happy with the skin I have.

Okay, so when did this, those struggles start? At what age did you become aware of the changes in your skin?

You know, most people begin to struggle with acne more in their teen years. I had, you know, kind of your standard breakout here and there. But it wasn't until my early 20s, my very early 20s, that I started to really struggle with my skin. And that carried on for. For a decade. You know, my mother still struggles with her skin at certain times, but my 20s were really, really rough for my skin. So.

Yeah.

How about you? Melgain.

So I had it when I was like 14, then back when I was 19, then also my 20s, so it always came back even in my late 20s. And the older you get, the more insecure you get because it's like, I'm not a teenager anymore lately. And I also had it when I had like a hormonal iud and that was one of the sides effect of it. But I didn't know that when they put it inside of me. And then after one year, I was like, I think it was after my trip to la, I came back home, I just studied nutrition, and I was full of acne. And then I was like, how is this possible? And then I heard from my gynecologist, like, yeah, that's a side effect of the hormonal IUD you have. And then if I would know that, I would never use that kind of hormonal contraception, because all my life, I already already had acne, and now again because of that. So, yeah, it's. Yeah. And. Yeah. And now I'm pretty okay. I'm 37. It's like, touch wood.

You have beautiful skin.

Thank you. Well, I have other concerns.

Well, I think it's important we teach young, younger people, but also parents, that hormones affect body and our skin. We might not be aware of that. Like, I certainly wasn't when I was a teenager. And you can really tell, like, in secondary school, when people do go through puberty, it affects. So people's confidence and they kind of clock together and they don't want to go to parties. Or you can tell by people's body language that they're insecure. And that's sad, because the insecurity goes hand in hand. It's not their personality, but it's because of their skin imbalances. And that's sad to see, really, when it's avoidable. Yeah. A friend of mine who struggles with acne, she's 25ish, is prescribed strong medication, is. It's been about six months now. If she were to stop taking the medication, what would happen? Does it come back? What are the consequences of those treatments in the long term?

Morgan, you actually brought up a really good point. Many people don't realize that oral treatments such as the pill or Accutane, they may be kind of treating something at a surface level, but it's not a treatment that lasts. For instance, with Accutane, it's treating the oil level and the bacteria, but it's not actually treating the source of the condition. And in studies, there's actually up to about 40% of people who actually experience a return of the acne after finishing up their course of medication. And this is far more prevalent in people when they're taking these treatments at a younger age. So. So, for instance, taking it in your teen years, you're far more likely to experience a relapse. But also when it is a hormonal issue, the root cause is what you need to address from a very young Age. We're really encouraging people to practise patience with themselves, with their skin, to understand that, you know, it is about really investing in kind of a 360 approach to treating conditions like acne and really looking at things more holistically and taking your time, being consistent. These treatments, although six months might seem like a serious investment of time, it doesn't necessarily mean that your skin will still be clear a year or two from now and the side effects can be profound. And I think that's something that so many of us kind of overlook because we do feel so disempowered by the condition of our skin. We want results, we want our skin to be clear immediately. The truth is that we all wake up, our skin looks and feels different every single day. And being comfortable with those slight variations, that's something that is so intrinsically human. You need to recognize that we are all human. There isn't, you know, I don't know, what is it? A Photoshop tool that we can kind of carry around in our back pocket and carry through into the world and, you know, we do all experience dryness or acne or some kind of issue and being patient and being consistent with the way that we're treating this through our skincare rituals, through our mindset, by reducing stress, our diet, our lifestyle choices is also essential.

I remember when you want that quick fix, because when it's really in your face, you're like, I want to try everything. I don't care what I have to do, just give me the thing that works and that tomorrow I wake up with a clear skin. And I think it's sometimes good to have those quick fixes. But meanwhile, you can also look at the 360 approach and the more holistic approach and see if you can find a bit of a balance there. It's not only food or only stress management, or only skin care or only sleep. It's a combination of all these factors together and you need to find what works for you, because if you're super stressed to skip some foods or add some foods that you don't like or don't want, then you will have more stress. And stress is not good for your skin neither. So try to find the things that makes a difference for you also on the long term, because if you change everything at once, you will never get there in a few years. So better to change small things so that you have, like, within five years a good result and, like, change everything in one week and then within two weeks you're just back to Your old habits, I would say.

And especially for people with hormonal cycles, I assume that also affects our skin. And could you give more information about that?

Yeah, it's true that before I didn't know that, and it's only when I had all the knowledge about. Okay. Menstrual cycle, it's not only about the days that you are bleeding. It has different phases. And it's true that around your ovulation, for example, in the middle of your cycle, you have more glowing skin and you also feel more confident and more attractive. So it really helps to have to feel good in your own skin. But if you don't know these things, then, yeah, you. Yeah. Also, for example, during menstruation, your skin is more drier. So then it's also perfect to, for example, use a face mask or a good hydration. But if you don't know these things, then it's difficult, I think, to, to manage your skin in a good way completely.

And I think all of these small adjustments that you can make throughout your cycle are actually very small. They're quite intuitive. And when you're kind of tapping into just like feeling out how your skin is week to week or even day to day, you can see that maybe your skin is feeling a little more dry, it's looking a little more oily in the mirror. And you know, yes, Morgan's right, of course, your skin gets very dry during your menstruation phase. Your progesterone and your estrogen levels drop. They really plummet. And your luteal phase, for instance, you really want to be incorporating more exfoliation, more masking, really giving your skin that deeper treatment to support it to prevent those premenstrual breakouts from occurring. And yes, your skin barrier becomes, I think, you know, quite sensitive as well at different stages. So it's all about kind of getting in touch with your cycle, but making very small adjustments that are really manageable.

So you have a different routine week by week.

Ish or not a different routine. The adjustments are so small. And I think it is, you know, it's different for everyone but me at this point in my life. And with where my skin is now, it's more focused on adding an extra layer of moisturizer during the menstrual phase or maybe peeling back on quite so much hydration because my skin doesn't need it during the ovulation phase. And then during the luteal phase, I definitely want to be going in and exfoliating and masking more. And actually the follicular phase is when your skin is really in this very good place and it can handle more active treatments. And so that's a great time. If you're dealing with hyperpigmentation or a deeper issue that you want to address and you want to maybe go in with something that's more actively brightening or a little more intense, that's a great moment in your cycle to add that in.

Okay, so if your skin is glowing during ovulation, you're doing a great job, right?

Ish.

Yes. It's a good sign. Okay, good.

We often hear people talk about hormone sex, skincare or avoiding certain ingredients that might disrupt our hormones. What exactly does that mean? Are there specific ingredients that are currently used in regular skincare that could affect our hormones? And should we be more mindful of what we put on our skin to protect that balance?

Yes, absolutely. Unequivocal. Yes on that. So what many people don't realize is that your skin is not just it, it's not just reflecting what's happening internally, it's also it. It's something that when you're absorbing product into the skin, that can then affect the hormones and therefore the way that your hormones regulate other function, it's both an effector and a receptor of the ingredients you're applying. So we really want to avoid anything that is going to affect, you know, this. We have this HPA axis which really regulates, it's our pituitary adrenal axis. And that's going to really affect how our hormones are kind of working. And in a way, I read this somewhere and I thought it was so great. It's kind of like the remote control for our hormones. So it's very, very delicate. We want to ensure that that's in balance and when it's not through the use of certain ingredients that can be very, you know, stressful on that delicate balance, it can lead to, you know, everything from an increase or decrease in sebum production, it can lead to textural changes in our skin. It can lead to greater flare ups when it comes to people who maybe have eczema or psoriasis or other inflammatory conditions. And it definitely impacts the speed with which our skin heals and, you know, the rate at which our collagen synthesis occurs. So that's so important for the integrity of our skin barrier and also just like how youthful our skin is looking. And so we want to avoid ingredients like formaldehyde. I mean, we all know that that's a big no, no. It's a very common preservative system that's used in a lot of synthetic formulas. And you know, there are thousands of ingredients to avoid, but some of them that maybe you'll see here and there include ammonia, which is used quite frequently in hair care, or mercury mineral oils. It's really important that we're doing our due diligence. And I think the more that customers are looking at ingredients and asking brands about these ingredients, the more pressure that they're putting on different, you know, cosmetic companies and, and you know, those who are actually them creating the products and putting them out into market, the greater the pressure will be to create higher quality products and raise the standard. Unfortunately, the standards are very different in every country. And although we see certain countries as having a much higher standard, certain ingredients are still allowed almost everywhere around the world. And so we, we want to do our research and make sure that what we're applying to our skin is going to be safe for our skin to abso.

So you've listed some absolute no go ingredients. What ingredients are beneficial for us?

At les, we really focus on active botanicals. The reason being that these are plant derived ingredients that are scientifically proven to have a real benefit for your skin. Now when we hear the word active, a lot of us are really nervous, especially if you have sensitive or reactive skin. The truth is that active comes at different levels. And an example of an active botanical that is used quite broadly that we use in almost every one of our formulas is aloe vera. So aloe vera is proven to be very hydrating and to encourage cell renewal and therefore it is an active botanical. Some rarer active botanicals that you would see in our formulations, for instance, include ingredients like Australian kakadu plum. It's the world's richest source of vitamin C. Effectively no one knows about this ingredient outside of Australia. I had to bring it to the world. It is so incredibly efficacious. And then Tremella mushroom, for instance, is another one of my favorite ingredients. It's proven to be 300 times more hydrating than hyaluronic acid. But again, very few people have heard of this ingredient. Nature is so abundant with exceptionally, you know, efficacious ingredients that will really can help your skin in a multitude of ways. It's all about, you know, focusing on the right ingredients for your skin, the right combination, really high quality products, ideally those that have been clinically tested so that you know that there has been third party safety testing. And I think, you know, when you combine that with your own due diligence, you're On a really good path forward.

You were talking about those rare ingredients that not many people already know about. How did you find out about them?

When you are an editor and writer, you are responsible, I think, for doing an incredible amount of research. And so I spent more than a decade researching ingredients. To me, that is. It's one of the reasons I wake up every morning. I love the science of natural skincare. I think people inherently think that because certain formulations are natural, they are divorced from the science. But when it comes down to it, what you are seeing there on the shelves, what you're applying to your skin, that is a combination that really is science bringing that to life. And natural skincare, when it's thoughtfully done, is a perfect marriage of nature and science. And so, yes, lots and lots of research, it's ongoing. I'm constantly reading dossiers and studies every single day, I think so often, you know, just to a spoiler I guess, in the, in the skincare industry is that the vast majority of skincare formulations are white labeled products where a couple of key ingredients, maybe a fragrance is added. And actually, I forgot to even mention this, but one of the most common endocrine disruptors is synthetic fragrance. And it's something you should absolutely avoid anything that says parfume if you are dealing with hormonal imbalance. If you want to focus on your, your health overall, I highly recommend avoiding that in any product you're applying to your skin.

Yeah. And I think the problem is that sometimes it's misleading because like you said, like some skincare brands, they just use like a fragrance of something and then, yeah, people look at, in the front of the packaging, but not a lot of people look at the back of the packaging. And that's the same, I think, with food too. When I'm in the supermarket, I'm like a looking at all the things and reading the small ingredients. And you should do that actually with every product you use also. Yeah.

From the outside too, unfortunately, that is just where we are today. If we want the highest standard, the best quality, if we want to really focus on the integrity of our bodies and our health, we need to self educate.

Yes. Yeah. That's the only way. Because it will be in the supermarkets. You will be able to take it off the shelves.

Exactly.

The driving force behind this podcast is Good Woman. Good Woman is your trusted source for hormonal health support, offering education, expert guidance and supplements. From day one, they've been more than just products. They've created a community where women can openly discuss Personal and often taboo questions. We've lightly touched on psoriasis, eczema, and other complex skin conditions. Morgan, are these conditions related to our hormonal balance?

For me, it's always a good start to understand how do my hormones fluctuate throughout my menstrual cycle, and why do I have, for example, more pimples a week before my period? That's because of progesterone playing an active role in that phase of your cycle. And then you understand why your skin changes, for example, throughout the month. And that's more easy to understand why some things are happening with your skin.

Yes, sir. I guess the major moments in life when we see these huge hormonal fluctuations and when they're more likely to actually reflect in the appearance of our skin is during our teen years. Obviously, rapid changes. Pregnancy, postpartum. People often overlook postpartum and how much that can affect someone's skin. Perimenopause, menopause. Men are very lucky in that they're predominantly affected in their teen years. It's a very condensed period. And so I think that's why women tend to engage more in skincare and invest more in skincare and also hormonal health overall. You know, at an early age, you kind of see men caring in their teen years, and then they shelve it until they're in their 50s, and maybe they notice that they've got a few fine lines around the eyes or something like that. But with these fluctuations in our hormones, we're seeing that our skin can respond in very different ways. And it does depend on kind of where you are as far as the different moments. You notice that incrementally, your skin does get drier over age. I think that that's something to keep in mind and that a moment such as menopause can lead to exceptional. A very, very drastic change in how dry your skin is.

Everything gets drier during perimenopause. And also, I think a lot of women also struggle, again, with acne during the perimenopause. Also, the first week, I remember the first weeks of my second pregnancy, I was full of acne again. I was like, oh, no. But then it's like, okay, blame the hormones. Yeah. So, yeah, it's always in every different stage of life, things can come back or worse, or new things. Like, also during pregnancy, I had more issues with skin pigmentation.

That's.

And it's still now, for me, that's one of the biggest challenges to look at skin pigmentation. So I'm curious how because you also said that you had some skin pigmentation issues.

Yes. So, okay. The secret is there is no overnight secret. I guess it's more about focusing on long term treatments, focusing on really high quality ingredients that are going to work to not only treat but prevent the hyperpigmentation from taking place. One ingredient that I love, for instance, is turkey tail mushroom. It actually has special enzymes in there that help with this dramatic kind of. When you're experiencing any form of discoloration in your skin, it's because there's a dramatic and rapid increase in the amount of melanin and turkey tail mushroom actually prevents that from occurring. So that's in our regeneration mist, which I know you love. And so you should be spraying that on all the time. I use it throughout the day, morning and night. People always ask me, what is the secret to good skin, long term, enduring results. And it's again and again consistency. You just can't avoid it. And my recommendation is always to change kind of one product at a time. I feel as though when I was dealing with hyperpigmentation, I was constantly turning to these really harsh synthetic treatments that were just pushing me into this cycle of ruining my skin barrier and that would lead to more common breakouts. And there was just, it was a vicious cycle. And so many of us experience that. And so it's about the consistency, a gentle but highly effective approach. And there's no shortcut there, unfortunately.

So acne can come in different forms and different places in our face. Is there a link between the source of the acne and the place where it appears in our faces?

Yes, well, yeah, you can have it on different places on your face. And also the place where you have it on your face can say a lot about your health. Hormonal acne often is around your chin. If you have it more on your cheeks, it can be, for example, a problem with your liver or your gut. So also, like the place between your eyebrows can also mean something about your health that's interesting.

It's really fascinating when you dive into the world of Chinese food face mapping. And if you haven't explored it, I highly recommend it. I did an interview and a feature when I was an editor on a Chinese face mapping expert, actually. And yes, your gut is very much tied to your cheeks, certain areas of your cheeks, and you can really kind of define what's going on internally by where you're seeing acne. It's also really important to think about what's touching a certain surface on your.

Skin, certain organ, and then you know, where you need to start the treatment. Like, do I need to look into my gut? Because there's also a huge connection between your gut and your skin. Same as your gut and your brain, for example.

Yes. Yeah, no, definitely. But also think about whether you're, like, holding your phone to your face, and then maybe you're having, like, some breakouts right, where your phone is touching your face and just, you know, or around the hairline, you know, are you wearing a helmet? Are you riding a bike? Are you sweating in that? Or are you using some kind of shampoo or conditioner that is not. You're not thoroughly cleansing? I see that a lot. When people wash their face before they shampoo and condition their hair. You should always wash your face last after you shower, and preferably not in the shower, because the. The intensity of the water emitting from a shower head is actually quite harsh on your skin.

I didn't know that. Thank you.

And also, the water tends to be quite hot.

Yeah.

The skin on our body is obviously far less fragile than the skin on our face. And if the water's too hot, that can be detrimental to our skin barrier. And it can also really be very drying and sensitizing. Anyway, you know, don't get too stuck in the weeds on all of these things, but just something to keep in mind. Think about, you know, are you washing your face after you shampoo? If you're doing it shampooing after and you're seeing some breakouts around the hairline, maybe change the order.

Okay. Very tangible tips there.

I like that.

Thank you.

There's also a trend I came across. It's using collagen powder at quite a young age to prevent wrinkles. What's your opinion about this?

I actually take collagen.

Okay.

It is proven to have great benefits. My opinion is, really talk to a doctor when you are considering taking any kind of powder of that sort, especially if you're thinking about taking something at a younger age. I mean, I'm hearing that people are interested in, for instance, retinol at 12 and really, really extreme treatments that are completely unnecessary at that age. And again, going back to education, we need to understand that people use retinol maybe beginning in their late 20s, early 30s. That's kind of a common time that people might start to integrate more vitamin A. And that is because your skin starts to. The natural exfoliation process slows down and comes to a grinding halt at some point. It depends on. It varies person to person, but it definitely slows down immensely beginning in Your mid to late twenties. I don't recommend that retinol in general for everyone. Most products out there use a lot of scary ingredients that I would recommend avoiding. But there are great ways to exfoliate, and that is something that you should be integrating more and more as you do age. Is that exfoliation process needed at the age of 12 or 13? Absolutely not.

Okay, could you explain exfoliation what it is, and how would you go about doing it?

So exfoliation is the process of removing dead skin cells from the surface of the skin. And this is such an important practice. People think that if they have sensitive or reactive skin, they should actually refrain from any form of exfoliation. The truth is that if you're not removing the buildup of dead skin cells, that bacteria from the surface, it can actually make your skin far more irritated. So everyone should be practicing this, but in different measures. If you have more sensitive, more reactive skin, you want to really embrace a more gentle form of exfoliation with less frequency. If you have skin that is really impervious to anything, then you can maybe practice with more frequency and focus on, you know, maybe a notch up, dial up your exfoliation slightly. And then if you have really congested skin, if you deal with a lot of blackheads and just, like, consistent buildup, if you're, you know, someone who's very active and sweats often, you may want to look at something that is a little more highly decongesting, a little. A little more, slightly more intense in its exfoliation. I will say that you want to avoid anything that is harsh on the skin. You shouldn't be feeling as though your skin is burning. You shouldn't experience immense redness. And you definitely shouldn't feel like, you know, your skin is really being pulled apart in any form. There are different types of exfoliation, so you can exfoliate very gently through the use of certain ingredients that just encourage the cell renewal. And, you know, one great example of that to return to it is aloe vera. It encourages very gentle cell renewal. And, you know, a step up from that, you know, you've got a couple of different forms. You've got more of a physical exfoliation. And so that would be through some kind of granule where you are lightly, it's slightly abrasive on the skin. So you're physically removing that, those dead skin cells that build up. And then another form is acid exfoliation. And so, you know, you see this, I think, more when it comes to synthetic skincare formulations, but where the acid is really kind of like. I suppose. Yeah. Removing, kind of like wiping away the dead skin cells. And what else can I say about this?

That's quite an intense version of exfoliation.

The last one is it more like similar to. I remember when I was scrubbing, I was scrubbing my face and I think when it hurts, it's for, it's for me. Now when it hurts, it's a no go. It's a no go because I added like I used so many things to solve my breakouts with like really harsh and chemical stuff that it really. I remember I was sitting in my bed with like, you know, this. Yeah. These things on my face. That really hurts. Yeah.

No.

And now for me, if it hurts, it's a no go. It means that it's not. Okay.

Skincare should never be painful. I think that's a huge red flag. Let's just kind of keep that in mind. You know, it really depends. You can have very harsh acid or physical exfoliants. And so it, it really does depend on the product. It varies so much. It depends on the percentage of acid. For instance, it depends on the type of physical exfoliating granule that's used in a manual exfoliator. But it should never be painful. Okay, that's absolutely number one. For those who are very sensitive and more reactive, what I actually recommend is finding a gentle cleanser, something. Oh, sorry. What I recommend is a gentle mask, something that is hydrating but also has ingredients in there that will encourage that cell turnover. And using that once or twice a week. I think that's a great way to layer in a form of exfoliation that works for all skin types.

A good place to start.

Exactly.

Go from there.

Exactly.

Okay, so how about men? We touched on it very lightly. Do they go through hormonal fluctuations as well? What's the deal with them again?

Yeah, they go through hormonal fluctuations for sure. They of course have another cycle that we have. We have our monthly cycle average, it's like 28 days. Why? A man has a 24 hour cycle and it's based on testosterone. Why? For us, it's more based on estrogen and progesterone. And that's why also men can be more sensitive for acne or breakouts because they have more like male hormones, those androgen hormones, so they can be more sensitive to it. I think they never learned like a kind of routine. And before I was always annoyed when my husband took my skincare products. Like, no. But now it's like, yeah, it's good that you use them too because I think it can make a good difference for you too.

What products does he use?

Does he use? I think he doesn't even know what he's using. But sometimes he takes like my lotions or sometimes he asks, do you have something for my skin? Okay, cool.

And how is it that some people, people never seem to have to deal with their skin, like never have issues.

And I was always jealous of those people. Certainly when you have like breakouts and you don't dare to go out, I was like, oh my God, why do they have like that perfect skin?

Sometimes that happens.

Genetics just play a major role in our skin. And some people are really so fortunate that they have a, you know, really beautifully balanced skin, for instance. Also, you know, pore size makes a big difference. You know, many of us struggle with say acne prone skin. Blackheads, people who tend to have a smaller pore size are less likely to be dealing with that.

And that's due to genetics as well. The pore size.

Exactly.

And also you don't know what they do. Are they on hormonal contraception? Do they do any kinds of treatments? You don't know what they do.

They might have been through a whole cycle of acne. You don't know.

Yeah, exactly. Or just like they do kinds of treatments that you do, we don't know about.

And yeah, that's interesting. It's a great one.

Everyone has their own journey, everyone's going through their own issues.

Yeah, exactly. And we all have different chapters in our skin, just like we have different chapters in our lives. So I mean, that's also a really important thing to remember when you are having a rough skin day, is that, you know, everyone does deal with, with issues at one point or another.

I also want to add because it's often for, we often forget to say it. Like makeup for me was also a huge, made a huge difference to use the right kind of makeup because then you focus on like the good skincare products. Now for me, for years I've been using natural skincare products and I think it was also like that aha moment I had when I was at your place the first time we met. It was like, okay, you can really make a difference in skincare and use good ingredients and active ingredients and so on. I remember we could test them and yeah, you really feel the difference. I also realized like, okay, but the makeup I use, because then you treat your skin well with the good product, but then you put like crap makeup products on your face and then you need to start over again. So I think it's also important to really look into natural makeup products too.

Yeah, good one to add. Yeah.

And also clean your makeup brushes. Yeah, Basic, simple things that we are all a bit too busy to deal with every day.

But I don't do it enough.

The cleaning, clean the brush. You know, wash your hands before you touch your face. Just simple hygiene measures that will prevent you dealing with, you know, maybe a breakout that could take a week to fix.

Okay, well, if there's one key takeaway that our listeners need to remember when it comes to skin health and their overall wellness, what would you say? Like, one thing.

Be gentle. Be really gentle with yourself. Like really practice, I think shifting your mindset, not just everything external, but focusing on your mental approach to your skin and your well being. Go easy, I think, you know, just if you, if you want to have a piece of chocolate, go for it. If you.

Dark chocolate.

Yeah. You know, just enjoy your life. Don't stress about the small things. Give yourself a little bit of grace and allow that to be the flexible kind of like element that allows you to just be more consistent with the ways that you are focusing on your health and well being.

Yeah, that's a great message. Thank you so much for sharing your insights with us.

Can I also add something?

Yeah, of course.

I would also say treat your skin from within. For me, it's like something I do already for years through food, through supplements. But then I met someone who was really struggling with skin and for her it was like a total new world. Like, okay, you can also treat your skin from within with the right nutrients and vitamins and minerals. And it's really nice to see that since she's doing that, it also has like an impact on her skin. So. And some people forget about the fact that you can also treat it from within.

That's good to hear. I think this will give lots of hope to people who are struggling with their skin care and their routines. So thank you both so much for coming here and sharing everything with us.

Thank you and thank you.

Thank you for listening and sharing this episode with friends and family. You can find all the information in the show notes or if you do have any specific questions, feel free to reach out to good womanoodwoman.com in the next episode, we'll dive deeper into the importance of breaking taboos, discussing these topics and the role of a community.

It's like people giving pep talks. They're giving out tampons. They're like sharing advice with strangers. Everyone is drunk and everyone is like, trying to support each other.

This podcast was brought to you by Good Woman, produced by the audio collective Velcro, based in Belgium.