131 - Facilitating Joy in Public with Jacques Martiquet, the Party Scientist

What does it take to make workshops work? And how can we facilitate collaboration that sticks and leads to results? My name is Myriam Hadnes, and with the Workshops Work podcast, I'm on the mission to find the magic ingredients that make workshops work. Today with me on the show is Jacques, the Party Scientist, and we talk about the facilitation of joy in community. So stay tuned. And by the way, if you don't have pen and paper at hand to take your own notes, scroll down to the show notes to download my free one-page summary. And now enjoy. Jacques, the party scientist, welcome to the show.

Woo! What a celebration it is to learn from you, Myriam, and be a part of this and share the, the new field of research that I've invented called Party Science. I'm working on my PhD like you. You got a PhD.

I got one. Yeah, I think it was less fun than yours.

Mine's been fun. Yeah, my classroom is getting strangers to dance and cultivating psychological safety in new spaces with people who have no expectations. There's no container. And my question is, how do I get them to be less self-conscious, more goofy, and more expressive? So yeah, getting slowly better and better.

Awesome. Cannot wait to hear more about that. And would you call yourself a facilitator?

I definitely do. There's a few, there's a few titles that I really love. I love facilitator, but I'd say I'm, I'm a more narrow definition of facilitator. I am a human connection professional. All my work revolves around giving people the elixir of life, which I believe to be human connection. And I think that as facilitators and everyone listening understands that when there is deep, meaningful human connection in our experiences, everything else becomes easier. People become happier, healthier, and they stay engaged. And my whole thing is So I'm like, yeah, I'm like a public health facilitator. That's like my thing.

What triggered you to do that? Did you just wake up one morning and say, oh, I'm going to be a party scientist and I facilitate human connection?

Yeah, yeah. You know, I've realized that I'm so lucky to have found this like very narrow niche and life purpose for myself that I'm completely obsessed with. And there's a few factors that led me down this path. The first factor was working in health education and sexual health education at a university clinic. And my mentor there studied binge drinking. And so I went to a few conferences with her and I researched binge drinking and I researched social norms around partying, social norms around how we gather. And I realized that the healthiest thing that we can do for ourselves, which is like connect with each other, touch each other, celebrate with each other. Like, I believe that's a really healthy behavior. That behavior often had the exact opposite intended effects. Like, it was very unhealthy, leads to like lots of sexual harassment occurs, lots of long-term health consequences occur from binge drinking. What that did is led me to be in emergency see medic at giant festivals. And then I witnessed just a lot of carnage. And that gave me this, this life purpose, like to make partying, to make socializing like healthy again and to like really shift those social norms.

That's a beautiful story. Thank you for sharing that.

Yeah.

So what does it take to create this human connection and to get people into a space where they can party without substance abuse, because that's basically what I hear from your story and from your purpose. So I guess that the majority of people would drink, maybe not binge drink, but drink in order to get the confidence, in order to open up and then be ready to receive and to connect.

Yeah, definitely, definitely. There's so many different ways that we use substances. One of my theories is it's like a workshop where everyone's disengaged and kind of grimacing at how incompetent the facilitator is. Like, we all just want to take a shot, right? You know, like, so it takes a lot. I think that really it's about designing highly interactive, engaging And evidence-based social bonding experiences. And so one of my other titles is I'm a social bonding specialist. And so I'm so intrigued by how we can use eye contact, how we can use touch, how we can use singing, how we can use synchrony. Synchrony. A simple cheer, a simple collective cheer can unite a group and make people way more self-expressive. And I wanted to pause and kind of bring this back to, you know, like I do corporate work. I work for Lush Cosmetics. I've worked for Accenture, Lululemon. Like I do these experiences and for clients like this. And ultimately, I think one of our goals as facilitators is really to increase the self-expression in the room. Like, how do we create containers for authenticity? And so the question you're asking, Myriam, is very much a question of how do we create environments where people are so openly self-expressive, so radically candid, such that they can literally dance and smile and laugh, right? Like, that's what we want. We want these positive emotions in our workshops because positive emotions cultivate creativity. They cultivate open-mindedness, they cultivate play. We know that play is like an incredible technique for, for, you know, divergent thinking, right? And so how do we do all of that? And we're both geniuses at this. My whole thing begins with like role modeling. My whole thing begins with the facilitator. Well, like, what is your vibe? What is the vibe that you are setting? Like, you can change an entire room. just by looking at people and like being embodied. Right. And so that's the first thing that I'll say. Yeah. Do you have anything to add?

I have lots of curiosity to add. So I, I totally agree. I think that the energy we bring into the room and our presence and groundness, and we set the tone whether we want the energy to be high and cheerful and danceful or grounded, reflective and Slow. Yeah. And as you were behind the camera just standing up and taking space and kind of filling your body and your voice with this cheerfulness, I was thinking of a video, many, many videos I've seen from you where you basically facilitate public spaces. So you're one of these guys that we see in a in a pedestrian area with a huge kind of speaker with loud music and then getting these crowds around you and getting them to dance.

Yeah.

And I— yeah, there are parts of me who say, what the hell, crazy dude. And there's this other part of me that is just full of awe and admiration for the guts it takes. But also for the talent it takes. So what is it that you do in these public spaces to create a container for people to cheer and dance with you? And what is the same or maybe different that you would do for your corporate clients?

So just a few things, and maybe you'll have to remind me of the question, but I'm really interested in the issue of Social distrust. So how much trust can we have with a random individual on the street? I think that trust that we can have for strangers in our city is like a very good metric for the health of our society. And so what I do, like the videos you're talking about, I'll go into public spaces and I'll get everyone to share joy together. And this is called vibing.

Vibing.

And I believe vibing, which means to spread joy and belonging through public. I believe vibing is the greatest self-development practice that I've discovered as a facilitator.

Oh yeah.

It's so easy when you have people coming into an event. They know exactly what to expect. They are there for a reason. They've preselected Selected to join your event. And like, all you gotta do is just like facilitate your thing. You know, when you're in public, there's so many unpredictable things. You don't know who's arriving. People have different moods. And so it's this beautiful way to go up to our edge as facilitators. And so Hereby challenging everyone listening to this to go try and facilitate something in public with strangers because it's like the most difficult thing to do as a facilitator. So that's the first thing I'll say. Now, you know, I have a whole system for like facilitating joy in public. And again, what you said, it's like the first thing is just our vibe, immediately what's coming up is just often people will think like I'm drunk or on drugs. And so, right, because it's like such an abnormal behavior to go dance in public. What I found is you can really counter that by speaking articulately on a microphone to people. And so, and also introducing yourself to people in the vicinity. Now, Ultimately, what I do, Myriam, is it begins— there's this principle that I talk about in my course that I'm developing called FQ. FQ is the Fun Intelligence Quotient. Okay? One of the steps of creating fun in any social environment is to create interpersonal psychological safety. We all geek out about this, blah, blah, blah. We love psychological safety. Hooray for Google and Amy Edmondson. You know what I mean? So one of the steps that I talk about is being the first, being the first. And I think this, just this concept is so empowering because so often we just wait. We just wait for things to happen and we like, we'll just be at a party or we'll be at a workshop and we're like, oh, someone's going to eventually say that, or someone's eventually going to like Bring us all together. But the truth is, like, a lot of people are just passive. And so what I opt for is to take radical action. So being the first— now it all begins with being the first person to express yourself radically. Now, when I am in a public space, what I am trying to do is I am trying to increase the acceptable expression threshold. That's what I call it. And so if I—

Yeah.

I just coined this term while writing this morning. So the acceptable expression threshold is the perceived level of expression that is normal in a social situation. And if there is someone expressing themselves at a very high level and in a way where we actually know they're coherent and they're sane and they're credible, this is the other thing, like making sure members of the public know that I am credible and I am a professional and I am one of the best in the world at cultivating joy in a public space. That is very helpful in getting them to realize, well, okay, like I wanna join this person. Okay. So I'll pause. The fun— the acceptable expression threshold is that perceived level that strangers have where they're like, okay, if that guy's dancing wildly, I can shake my shoulders like this. You know what I mean? Like, it's just like, oh, well, if he's all the way up there, then I can just like smile. I can at least smile. That's going to be acceptable. So there you go. So there's my rant.

It reminds me of this, of this video that went viral, and I think it was used in, in a TED Talk.

Oh yeah.

How to start a movement, I think, was the topic. So you have the first person standing up and dancing on a green field. Is the crazy dude.

And totally crazy dude. Like, this guy was crazy.

And until the second one joins, who's the courageous dude, right? Because for the second— the first one is just crazy. The second one is really courageous because he or she stands up and say, I'm gonna dance with them. And then the movement starts as soon as the third person joins.

Yeah, yeah. And you know what's so interesting about that is just like This social conditioning that we have, right? Like, we step into a room and we're looking to detect the social norms. And it's, it's really difficult to change social norms once they're established because everyone who enters the room behaves according to what everyone else is doing. And so it really takes that disruption. And it takes many leaders to kind of break that durability and create new social norms. And so, you know, like eventually when the second followers and whatnot are truly the true leaders are the first people to join, that's when the social movement started. And I really think that we as facilitators can disrupt those social norms in a room. We can disrupt that durability, but we need to be fierce and we need to be expressive. What do you think?

What I'm wondering is, how do you connect the moment where the joy happens? Okay, so you attract these people, they first decide that it's worth their time to stop, and then they agree that it's worth their courage to just nod around the beat, right, with the beat, and to join you there. And then maybe they decide that it's worth a smile. Okay, so we got that. And then how do you get from this individual moment of joy to the collective?

Yeah, totally. Yeah, I, I talk a lot about synchrony. And I talk a lot about ritual, which is often this witchy word, you know what I mean? Ritual requires 2 things. And basically, I use a ritual once I have people watching and bought into what I'm doing. If I'm in a public square, there's a bunch of people surrounding me and they're smiling and they're nodding their heads. What I do is I orchestrate a ritual which requires a shared intention and focused attention. My favorite is just, and I'm sure a bunch of your listeners know about The Artist's Way and The Circle Way and yeah, the power of circle. And so what I do is I'll get everyone who's bought in, to join a circle and hold hands. And then what I do after everyone's holding hands is I have everyone just relax while holding hands, looking at each other. And everyone's like, what the hell is going on? Like, who the hell is this guy? And I'll explain what's going on. I'll explain my intention. And then I'll play usually a sing-along. And I'll get people just like walking around in a circle. And you know what's really funny?

Yeah.

What's funny, Myriam, is because usually once you have a circle and there's like 10 people in the circle. So this is what I did. So what I did in Boulder, I was recently in Boulder. We went to this event where there were like 500 teenagers who were going on a bike ride. They were all like 16. And I was like, okay, this is a great opportunity to test my facilitation skills. Can I get 16-year-olds to dance together. These are very self-conscious beings. And what I did is I got 10 people in a huddle and then I just used my microphone and I said, yeah, you over there, you're invited to join the huddle. Come over and join the huddle. And so, the circle usually expands very rapidly once you have a circle of 10 people. Now, again, this is about synchrony and this is about ritual. Everyone's attention is focused on the circle. Everyone's in the moment, Together. People aren't doing their own thing. People are all holding hands. They're unified in this activity. They're synced up. And then we play a sing-along and the circle collapses in and out. So in summary, the answer is you, you get people to do something together that's really low effort. Like people don't need to do much to like hold hands in a circle. You know what I'm saying?

Thank you for sharing that. I think it's very inspiring. And it reminds me actually of religious practices. Yeah, yeah, people together hold hands or create some proximity and repeat the same words or sing or do dance moves together. And this creates this in-group feeling.

Definitely, definitely. Did you say it reminds you of indigenous practices? Oh yeah, yeah.

So I think at this, in substance, it's the same. It's about rituals and it's about the circle.

Yeah, definitely. I think it, it's everyone's in the experience together, and I think that, you know, as facilitators, we have all these different tools available to us and You know, like in my Zoom, in my virtual experiences, I want to create as much space for people to express themselves and be witnessed. And sometimes I use very small groups to do that. And other times, you know, the circle that I was talking about, sometimes I get someone to go into the middle of the circle and then I get everyone to cheer their name, you know, and I give them this massive celebration of this person's expression, right? But yeah, there's so much we can learn about facilitation from, like, from the religious institutions and, and also community building, right? You've probably interviewed people on the podcast who, who are like religious facilitators, have you? Not yet.

Good one. Missing. Thank you for the prompt.

Well, it's, it's all good, Myriam, because I'm, I'm starting my own religion, so it's good. It's all about dancing through public. This is why I have my own vocab, vibing.

Great. And I would like to build the bridge towards the corporate space. Yeah, that you're facilitating with the question According to you, what makes a workshop fail?

You know, I wrote in my newsletter the other day, I wrote about disengagement and how we can celebrate disengagement or we can let disengagement discourage us. And I think ultimately it's about the unshakability of the facilitator. What I think makes a workshop fail is, first of all, not enough buy-in from the participants. What that leads to is a little, little spark of disengagement. And as a facilitator, we can celebrate that disengagement and lean into it and address it and go into hyperdrive, as I like to call, or we can be discouraged. We can give up and we can tell ourselves, oh, this isn't going well. I'm a bad facilitator. Uh-oh. Yeah, I failed. This is over. Right. And so I think that It's like really the reaction to disengagement. It's the facilitator's reaction to things not going as planned. And oftentimes things don't go as planned because participants— it's like what has been done before the actual gathering has started. Like, have people been primed? Do people have accurate expectations? Right. And so one thing I do with my corporate clients is like, I send them a GIF of myself. I send them a checklist. I actually have slides. I go over slides before a corporate experience to cultivate buy-in, to motivate my participants to be fully engaged.

Hi, this is Andrew. I'm a facilitator and Head of Customer Success at SessionLab, the dynamic workshop planner tool. More than 30,000 facilitators, trainers, and coaches use our workshop planner tool and save time and effort in the design process. So how do they do it? Our drag-and-drop agenda builder makes it easy to transform your ideas into high-quality workshops, and the timing of your agenda automatically updates when you make changes. You can collaborate in real time with your colleagues and easily share professional-looking printouts with your clients. And if you need inspiration, you can check out our library of more than 500 activities and exercises and simply drag the ones you need right into your workshop agenda. So check out SessionLab to save time and effort in your workshop design process. And now get your first 2 months of SessionLab Pro absolutely free at sessionlab.com/workshop.

And before I ask you how, how you do that, I would like to come back to this leaning into disengagement.

Yeah.

I am intrigued. I'm not surprised that you're bringing this up because I think it takes a lot of courage, and I would love to hear from you. So what would be your advice For a group that is disengaged? The equivalent on a Zoom meeting would be you're speaking to all these dark screens.

Yeah.

How do you lead into that?

It's the nightmare, isn't it? All right. So let's say I am facilitating a virtual corporate experience and no one has their video on. You know, my immediate reaction would be, How do I lower the barrier to participation? How do I reduce the effort it takes for someone to participate? How do I take baby steps with these people? Yeah. What would you do?

So usually what I— I invite them in a way that I say that I would love to see their smiles.

Yeah.

It's just nicer to talk to people than to a black screen. That— or I would say, okay, there may be some moments where I would like you to turn on the camera. For instance, if you go on a breakout with only one or two in a small group, please put your camera on because it's out of respect. It's not for me. And otherwise, maybe I would find moments of where maybe I get vulnerable and I ask them to turn their video on because I'm sharing something about myself.

Ooh, yeah, I like that.

I think these are the moments. Recently I heard someone— I love that— it was in one of the gatherings, I think around Never Done Before, and one of the facilitators shared that she would just ask, okay, can you see me? Because I cannot see you and I wonder whether my camera is off.

That's good.

I love this use of humor, like Okay, can you actually? And she would kind of look closely into the camera and very close. Can you guys see me? Because somehow I cannot see you.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's wonderful.

To wake up the people and to say, okay, it's a two-way street basically.

Totally, totally. Yeah, I love what you're saying. You know, one thing that I've done before is I've said that I think like we'll do things for ourselves. Like it's incredibly important for, for us to kind of answer the question, what's in it for them or WIFM? What's in it for me to answer that question, to cultivate buy-in? But I also think like so much of our behavior is just motivated by kind of like Well, doing things for others and, and not, not harming others and being generous to others. And so often what I'll say is, well, this isn't for you, this is for everyone else on— this is a form of respect and an expression of generosity for everyone else on the call because we're going to collectively benefit if you have your video on. And so moving away from, oh, this is how you're going to benefit, to, hey, all the other participants are almost being negatively impacted by your behavior.

Yeah. A collective responsibility. I like that.

Yeah. I'm super curious, Myriam, if you've incorporated any celebration or dance or joy into your workshops and your sessions and what your experience has been with that.

So dancing, still experimenting with it and realized that it's very difficult to get a group to feel comfortable dancing. What I, what I do is stretching. Yes, I love that. Because so either I use it as a check-in exercise, okay, so we Everyone copies the stretch of the person checking in and shares whatever is on their mind, and then we just go around if the group is not too big. And this is magic, also as a kind of break. Okay, get off your chair and just stretch a bit. And in terms of joy, I think it's a ritual to always celebrate the contributor of a workshop, for instance, I'd never done before, and then to Collectively just get our arms and hands up and—

Yes, jazz hands!

Yeah, the jazz hands and the Zoom applause. And I think this also, as you described, it's something we do collectively. It's celebration of being there, celebration of someone recognizing that automatically lifts the energy of everyone present. Yeah.

And I think the principle here is celebrating others' expression and vulnerability creates so much permission for people to lean more into that. And especially when we get an entire group of people celebrating one human, I think that just like, that is one of the foundational practices of Jacques running around with a sound box, you know, throwing dance parties in public. It's because I will celebrate people's expression and I'll get the entire group to celebrate their expression.

Yeah, it reminds me of a— I once did a clown workshop Yes! It was amazing. I learned so much about management, about facilitation, about myself. Anyway, there was one exercise where everyone of the group would stand. So everyone was lining up and one after the other would step in front of the group and receive a standing ovation. Yeah, that's it. Just going there, receiving a standing ovation, and then moving back to the line and the next one stepping up. And the impact of this little exercise without any words, without anything, is incredible.

Oh my gosh.

So I can— yeah, what you're saying.

So, so I do something at the end of my sessions called an unconditional round of applause. And so at the end of my sessions, people are high, like people are in a really open-hearted state. And so it's very simple. It's open microphone. Usually we nominate people. Nomination is a technique that I use a lot. So I, I will say someone's name and I'll be like, would you like to share? And I say their name and then they're like, yeah. And then they share. No one ever says no.

Wow.

Everyone always shares. And so anyway, so we get to the end of the session and we open up the space and essentially it's an open microphone for people to share gratitude, inspiration, joy, positivity with the group. And people have just shared the most meaningful stuff about their family, about their coworkers. And then after they've shared, everyone gives a round of applause and a cheer, and then the person nominates the next person. And yeah, just, I led a party for like this doctor's conference and the head of the department like came up and just spoke about like how everyone was getting through it together. And like, it was just so powerful. Everyone was just intently listening. And then there was just like a giant roar at the end. It was so fantastic. Yeah.

And I'm very curious now too, what happens in your sessions between— you mentioned how you get their buy-in and you would record a video and send them slides, and then they all arrive and they have some expectations of— I guess it's around team building, it's about joy and trust and bonding. And how do you actually create that? Is it really a literal party so that you would get them to dance together? Or what is it that builds up to this moment that everyone feels so comfortable to share?

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's a sequence of a lot of different exercises, meditation exercises, movement exercises. Stretching is a part of it. Singing is a part of it. I get people to put something on their bodies that makes them feel powerful, like to We Are the Champions, right? So it's never like freestyle dancing. Like, no, like that comes way later. That comes like very near the very end. In fact, I don't really use— like most people think of dance as just like, oh, I'm just gonna dance like in front of my Zoom screen. I don't actually do that virtually. I'll do that if the vibe is right physically. But most of my activities, like, no one's ever just like dancing there. We're always doing something together and we're line dancing together. Like, I'll do the Thriller dance like a lot and people just laugh their asses off. To the Thriller dance. And I'm like really, really good at it. And I know a lot of Michael Jackson moves and people just, they just laugh so hard. And then we'll do other line dances. And then finally we'll do like a mirroring exercise where people are mirroring each other. And then later on in the experience, I'll get people to do like kung fu battles and dance battles. One thing that I've done recently is, uh, It's super funny. Oh my gosh. So I get people to— I spotlight like 3 people and I'm the referee and it's a dance battle and I'll get like the 2 most highly engaged participants to dance battle each other and I'm the referee and I actually get the participants to trash talk each other. And it's so funny. It is the funniest thing ever because like everyone's trying not to swear and so And like, yeah, people are like, they just make all these jokes at one another and they, they say like, I'm gonna break your computer screen. Like, and then the whole crowd's just laughing. Um, and that's like later on in the experience, right? So there's a lot of games. There's a lot of games. But, uh, sorry. Go. Yeah, do I have a favorite game? I want to hear your favorite game and then I'll share my favorite game. Or what was your question?

I don't know whether I have a favorite game. Well, I made a game myself recently.

Same.

And actually it was, um, there were different categories and you would get a, of course, a Post-it note out of a out of a big can. And then depending on the color of the Post-it note, you would have to do something differently or receive something. And one of them, so one category was gifts, and one of these stickies said receive a standing ovation. So then there were also prompts like, we had a category of do something out of Fimo, this kind of Play-Doh. And so all different colors of Fimo around and then make a wish out of Fimo or sing your future.

Ah, I love it. So much variety.

How about your favorite game?

Yeah.

So I've studied this theater guy called Bernard Decoven. And he has a website called deepfun.com. And this is the best database for games on the entire internet. And I went through every single game on his website. And yeah, so wanted to mention that. But I mean, my favorite game, It's probably not, it's not even a game, but it's an activity that consistently really elevates people's energy and emotions and it works in person. And so, you know how I was talking about the circle, right? So, I have this giant group of people, usually it grows to 100 people. So, it's this giant circle. And what happens is I'll put on a drop, a drop in the music, a buildup in the music. And this is called the grand reunion exercise, the grand reunion. And so everyone's in a circle and there's this anticipation because the music is building. And in the meantime, I'm running around in the circle with the speaker pointing it at people in the circle. And getting them to clap. And so everyone's like staring at me in the eyes and I'm just like, I'm kind of in my wild man character, right? And so they're like, they're feeling me and they're listening to the music and they're clapping. And then I have the speaker above my head, so it's like really visible and it's kind of like, whoa, this guy has a giant speaker and it's above his head and he's running around in a circle like, what the hell's going on? And so I'm running around the circle with the speaker above my head. And then at the very buildup of the track, when the drop hits, everyone runs into the center and starts jumping up and down with their hands above their head. And this like works universally with like everyone. And it just, it's amazing. Just this convergence. It's an explosion of of joy that happens. So that's gotta be like my favorite activity that I, that I do when I'm in the streets. Some people are probably like, is this a mosh pit? No, it isn't. But yeah, it's a very physically demanding exercise for sure. And I, I think that physical energy and physical movement, like so often all we have to do is just jump up and down with open body posture to completely transform our emotional state, right?

Yeah, yeah, makes so much sense because there's an entire thing that kind of happens in your, in your brain and body if you open up because you signal basically you are vulnerable, right? Because you're exposing yourself. And if you're jumping up and down, you create some, I guess, endorphins because of the physical activity. And if you're doing this together I guess that there are some oxytocins maybe generated even.

Yeah, yeah. Uh, neurotransmitters.

What would you advise someone who would like to bring some joy and ease to their workshops or meetings but don't even know where to start?

Yeah, I, I really think Just incorporating music is the first step, music and stretching. Now, the next step beyond that, beyond using music in our sessions and getting people to stand up and actually open their body posture, the next step is using funny music. And like, I don't know if— can I play a song here?

Yes, please.

Okay.

You can share your sound.

Okay.

So essentially now I'm the party scientist, right? And so I have like 70 playlists on Spotify and I know a song for every situation. And so one of these tracks, consistently brings joy. And so I'm gonna play it for you here. This track I can play in my Zoom sessions and consistently it brings people a smile and elicits positive emotions. Okay, so it's, it's obvious. So it just gets people People smiling. Okay, and then like, so there's all these songs that we can use. Like another one, this song I've played in like 100— no, 15 different countries or so. And And so like everyone laughs, everyone, most people sing. And so like basically, basically if you would like some tracks to elicit positive emotions and elevate people in your sessions, you can find me on Spotify. And this is going like, this is your toolkit, your tracks, your songs. Are so like, oftentimes you can be a totally— like, I can communicate super poorly and I may not even know what I'm doing, but as long as the music is contextual and like it has been tested, people will participate and the music will save my ass.

Very interesting. And I must say that I was surprised to hear the tracks that you played after having them announce them. Because classical music, I would have not expected that. And still I can, I can relate to it because it calms us down. And still it's a positive kind of harmony or soundtrack that everyone knows. And for the second one, I wonder whether they are laughing because either they try to sing along and every single one gets it wrong because you just cannot. Oh, because it's so cheesy that everyone, I think, beyond a certain age relates some kind of emotional— or how do you call that— memories from the past.

Ah, like nostalgia.

Nostalgia.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I have a lot of cheesy music, like Like Wham!, Careless Whisper, you know, like saxophone music. And yeah, for me it's, yeah, it's like, well, let's do, let's test this as a scientist. Does this work in like multiple countries? Oh, it does. And it makes people laugh and it brings people together. And these 2 songs have worked in like 12 different countries while I've done my party expeditions. So yeah, but holy crap, I'm so confident that I know these songs will work, but would you, the person listening, would you incorporate this into a corporate workshop? I bet you, you would be highly skeptical to do that, right? Because it's like your reputation's on the line and this is just it, right? Like we can play into this whole formality professional bullshit, in my opinion, or we can be the first ones to create joy and to be vulnerable. And what we don't remember about vulnerability is that oftentimes it's even more vulnerable to be goofy than it is to be sad and to cry. cry because crying is now cool. Crying is cool. Self-disclosure is cool. Goofiness and like play, that's not there yet. Like Brené Brown helped us with the crying part, you know, like, so it's very vulnerable.

And it reminds me of the observation that As a facilitator, when you invite a group to participate in something that you're offering them, you have to be convinced that it works. So if you're playing a sound or music that you think, oh, Jacques, this party scientist, recommended that, so I'm gonna play that, but only half-heartedly, it won't work. So you really have to lean into this Uncertainty and discomfort. And only if you're full in and believe in that, then they will buy in.

Totally, totally. I mean, yeah.

It's a slippery slope because where do you practice to really get this confidence to then pull this choker or— yeah, out of your sleeve.

It's, it's all about embracing intelligent failures, right?

Mm-hmm.

Preventable failures versus intelligent failures. Well, if you're not having any intelligent failures as a facilitator, then you're not really growing that much. Sorry, but if people are not responding negatively sometimes to things you try, You're staying in your comfort zone. And that's what I've realized about my facilitation. Like, I do not fuck up enough. I mostly get positive reactions. And when we only get positive results, that is a sign that you are playing it safe, in my opinion. So that's, that's food for thought.

Good one. And still, I want to emphasize how in my opinion, the importance of authenticity is when you play with goofiness. If you're not—

Oh yeah.

If you're goofy but everyone can feel that this is you and it's coming from your heart and you know what you're doing and you're doing it with intent, yes, people will, will laugh with you. If you're goofy because you're putting on a mask and try to impress Or be cool because you think goofy is the new cool, then people will laugh at you. At least that's my, that's my take on that.

It all comes back to the contagiousness of our mood and vibe as a facilitator. And this is why I've coined— not maybe not, but I, I talk about What is a pro-social state? And my whole thing is like, before I facilitate, before I socialize, I need to be in a pro-social state because everyone's gonna feel me. And so, yeah, ultimately everything becomes easier when we are in a parasympathetic Positive state of mind.

And what's your ritual to get there?

There's a lot. There's a lot. I mean, opening up my body posture, breathing, visualizing, doing like a Metta loving kindness meditation, music, just playing music that I love. What I also do is I love to just Like if I'm co-facilitating, I'll leverage the co-facilitator and we'll exchange joy together and we'll hug. And that touch is our greatest weapon against stress, right? Pretty much. Yeah. But I'd say the best technique is just playing music associated with a positive memory, and that's going to get you into a a much more open-minded, less stressed state.

Thank you for sharing that. Yeah.

Yeah. Do you have a ritual before you facilitate?

Yeah, I think, um, opening the body, shaking it up, music, just getting some, yeah, positive energy rolling.

Definitely.

I think fresh air, enough water.

Yeah. Getting good night's sleep. Nourishment and grounding.

And I, I revised the— or I have a look at the agenda last time before we start, just to know that what I'm doing and to let go of the script if needed. Yeah, presence is— yeah.

Yeah, the right level of preparation can really help us be more in flow state during our session.

Yeah. Wonderful. Before closing, I'm curious, what's up for you next? What's your vision?

Yeah, I am building an alliance of human connection business leaders so that we can work together to create norms of deeper human connection in the developed world. So that we can combat the rise of loneliness and depression.

Yeah. Yeah.

And then I'm building a course right now. I'm building the Fun Intelligence Quotient, which is about the embodiment of and facilitation of fun in any social situation. And so I'm writing the syllabus right now, and that's been fun.

Awesome. And I'll put all of that into the show notes so that the audience can reach out to you, subscribe to your newsletter, and join this fun revolution.

Thank you so much, Miriam. This has been so relaxing. Yes.

And if for any reason someone in the audience fell asleep after minute 1, just woke up and were like, what? What was it all about? I don't have time to listen to the entire show again. What would you like them to remember?

I would like them to remember that dance, music, and singing is pretty much the universal human language. And if you're not incorporating it into your facilitation practice, it's time for you to stop playing it safe.

No fool. Thank you, Jacques.

Ciao for now, Myriam.

Awesome. Thank you for staying tuned and listening to the show. I appreciate your attention as I know how busy you are. If you enjoyed it, please subscribe and engage by sharing your comments and thoughts, and visit workshops.work to download the one-page summary. I'm looking forward to seeing you back at the next episode, and I wish you a fruitful day.