349 - Facilitation in Japan: Silence, Safety, and Subtlety with Yuko Gendo

What does it take to make workshops work? And how can we facilitate collaboration that sticks and leads to results? My name is Miriam Hatnes, and with the Workshops Work podcast, I'm on the mission to find the magic ingredients that make workshops work. Today with me on the show is Yuko Gendo, and we speak about facilitation in Japan, and she allows me to ask all my naive questions about cultural differences and how to avoid the big mistakes and understand a very different culture when it comes to facilitation. Stay tuned and don't forget to scroll to the show notes to find out more about my guest and to subscribe to the show if you like it. Thank you for listening. Welcome, Yuko.

Ah, thank you for inviting me.

I am very, I'm very happy to have you on the show. You're my first guest from Japan.

Wow, I'm so honored. Thank you for having me today.

Yeah, and I'm very curious to learn more about the impact of the Japanese culture on facilitation and what facilitation in Japan means.

And I'm so excited to share a little, um, about my facilitation or our practice.

And I always start with the same question.

Okay.

When did you start calling yourself a facilitator?

Ah, wow. I love this question. I started calling myself a facilitator about 12 years ago when I decided to shift my career into facilitation. So yeah, back then I used to work at the IT industry as a consultant.

Oh.

Yeah, their typical style is to provide best practice directly to the client. So yeah, but what really struck me about facilitation is not giving them the answer, but we are supporting team in finding their own solution, empowering the process. So yeah. And the process was much more meaningful to me.

And does it come natural in Japan to the groups to be, to themselves think about the solution, the answer, instead of listening to a consultant?

Well, in Japan, lately things is getting changing, but mostly our education is How can I say? Not one way, but receiving a teaching from the teacher. So like the tribe years ago, it was more like not completely new, but yeah, kind of new stuff to implementing, empowering team to finding their own solution by themselves.

And if I may, what is the role of authority of the facilitator?

Ah, authority. Wow. Hmm.

Authority. Authority is, um, like a parent to the children, like the boss to the employees.

Yeah.

Power.

I think from my perspective, facilitator is a kind of privilege to lead or support of the space. But comparing to the trainer or consultant, that sounds like less power. than people who have strong authority.

Yeah, yeah, makes sense. Maybe a more philosophical question, but how would you describe the essence of what facilitation is in Japan?

Simply put, in Japan, the essence of facilitation is creating and nurturing psychological safety, where people can share their true feelings and opinions. So let me introduce a little bit about this cultural background. From elementary school all the way to new employee training, we grow up doing a lot of group activities.

Mm-hmm.

Because we value group harmony over openly stating our individual opinions.

Mm-hmm.

Compared to other Western culture, people in Japan tended to assert themselves less. In addition, there's a strong cultural norm not wanting to cause inconvenience to others. So sometimes during the workshop in Japan, people just get along with instruction. without genuine engagement or interest. So yeah, in other words, doing activity on the surface. And when we learn workshop, we sometimes think about the framework like divergence and convergence, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. And what I heard from Western Korekt— so yeah, correct me if I'm wrong. Western participants can do very quick to throw out their idea during brainstorming, and then they need more time for convergence.

Yeah.

Pick up which idea is best for them. But in Japan, the situation is completely opposite.

Interesting.

Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. So in Japan, people need time to drown out our opinion in calm and quiet atmosphere. So yeah, people need more time for draw out our ideas.

Mm-hmm.

So in Japan, many facilitators tend to care to create a safe space to invite gradually to actually speak up.

So the individual ideas are more difficult and need more safety?

Yes.

And then convergence is easy because you have trained convergence?

Yes. Yeah. So yeah, Japanese people tend to think before— tended to think more before speaking.

Yeah.

Even though, okay, let's speak up in any small stuff, you know, people try to select their ideas before speaking. So yeah, convergence takes less time compared with Western cultures people.

Thank you. And you said in the beginning that the essence of facilitation is to create safety, so for feelings to be there.

Right, right.

And then when I hear you speak that it's difficult to brainstorm individual ideas, is it also difficult to really accept feelings and emotions in the work? Do you show emotions?

Ah, wow. It's quite interesting. Question to Japanese participant. Well, showing emotion is a bit less compared to Western culture, I think. So people hesitate to express directly in front of many people or public setting.

Mm-hmm.

So yeah, I often invite more indirect individual expression, like choosing visual card or writing down Post-it or drawing or creating something by Lego. Those kind of indirect communication is more well received in Japan.

And the indirectness, is it because of Protecting someone's individual status or face, or is it more about not stepping on someone else's toes or hierarchy or—

Yeah, there's many aspects of this point. The one thing is, especially in business context, we have more, our organization is more hierarchical. So people tended to hesitate to speak up in front of their boss. So yeah, so our facilitator really paid attention to who should be invited or how we group up. And another aspect is, well, okay, especially in English workshop, we don't want to make a mistake in front of others. Yeah, that is a strong cultural norm. So as you might know, our Japanese people are not accustomed to speak up in English in our daily life. So especially compared to a Japanese workshop and English workshop, in English workshop people are more hesitate to speak up. So yeah, sometimes our— from our perspective, some Japanese are very talkative and expressive in Japanese workshop, but maybe you see Japanese participate in English workshop, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. From your perspective, many Japanese people remain silent or quiet in the workshop?

Yeah. What would be— maybe 2 questions. You said that Japanese tend to first think and then speak, so there's more reflection and more time. What is then the role of silence? Because Western facilitators, many Western facilitators, are afraid of silence, so they ask a question And then nobody says anything, and then they start to fill and speak, speak, speak.

Okay.

And I can imagine that in Japan it's dangerous to speak too much.

Yeah, exactly. So yeah, may I answer this question first?

Yes, of course.

Yeah, so I think silence and pause plays an important role in Japanese conversation, and I assume from Western perspective our conversation looks a bit slower and includes lots of pause and quiet.

Mm-hmm.

And yeah, sometimes I assist international facilitators to work with Japanese participants, and they're always surprised how quiet Japanese people are. And yeah, they felt nervous and tried to fill in the silence. But in Our culture, silence is not negative. Technically, some people might feel awkward, but I guess many people do not. So silence and pause have— we regard a space. Yeah, we regard space to something emerge or something for reflecting ourselves.

Mm-hmm.

To find out new insight, inside of ourselves. So yeah, maybe as experienced facilitator, I try to intentionally incorporate silence into the workshop. For example, we might create a pause before recorrecting or I might sometimes invite participants to write or draw silently before speaking to organize their ideas. So yeah, we not to— at least we not try to fill in the silence. We're very comfortable for silence and pause.

Would you then play music, or is it really silence, silence? Do you use music in workshops?

Yes, yes, sometimes. It really depends. Sometimes it's completely silent for reflection, but sometimes, yeah, we turn on some kind of music to create atmosphere.

You said you assist Western facilitators.

Yeah, sometimes.

What do you think, except of the filling the silence, What is maybe a mistake they're making, and how can we as Western facilitators accommodate better Japanese participants?

Well, I don't think they have a mistake because every facilitator have different style, but one thing I might pick up Well, one thing Western facilitators might pick up from our approach is how we listen to everyone's voice in the group setting or at this workshop. Maybe it might reflect our culture, but in Japan, if we have group discussion, At least people try to invite everyone's voice equally. Maybe it's almost doing unconsciously because we, for example, if someone remains silent during the group conversation, we regard this as a kind of collective responsibility. We are part of in this situation, so at least we try to invite people who haven't spoken yet. But from what I learned from Western facilitator, those are more personal matter, like the person who just not to speak up. So Yeah, at least Japanese participant or Japanese facilitator try to invite everyone's voice as much as possible. So yeah, inviting small voice as much as possible.

Yeah. Interesting. Because so when I facilitate, I would look at the body language and sometimes there is someone I can see they want to speak but don't, then I would invite them. But if I don't see that, I would not, air quotes, force someone or put someone on the spot. Wow.

Yeah, sounds interesting. I, yeah, maybe at the beginning of a workshop, I might invite the person who, something like, tried to Speak up, but as gradually time goes, I might see someone who haven't spoken yet and, okay, do you have any idea? Or, yeah, do you have anything to add? Or something like that.

Yeah, very interesting. I'd be curious to speak about Friction or conflict.

Right, right.

Because you mentioned that, um, in Japanese groups you spend more time on the brainstorming because it needs more guidance and more facilitation to make it easier to come up with individual ideas, and then the convergence is faster, right? How about the space in the middle where you realize that there is friction, there are different opinions? How do you deal with that in the workshop, with friction and conflict?

Yeah, in general, I think Japanese people tended to avoid friction or confrontation, so don't usually straight jump into friction and open debate. So in my case, I often start by creating space for indirect individual expression first, beginning of the workshop. For example, I once facilitated a post-M&A workshop to companies integrate their cultures. So at the time, many employees still have attachment for previous company's culture. So yeah, their attachment was becoming barrier to form new shared identity. So I used a set of visual cards and invite people in their original company's group to choose cards that represented their strengths and weakness and the essence of what they want to bring into new cultures. So yeah, that would take time as a divergence, but, and then once their perspectives were visualized and shared, we could open up more broader discussion about what kind of culture we want to co-create for the future. So yeah, in the middle, yeah, we need step by step and generous time for diversions. And yeah, in the middle, once we shared our different perspective or different perspectives, Yeah, we can jump into the discussion.

And then, if I understand correctly, it is less about the personal opinions and it's more general? Uh, yes.

Yeah, in Japan, sometimes we try to create group opinion. Not invite individual opinion. Yeah, it really depends on the situation and part of the workshop. But sometimes, okay, let's share their personal opinion or feeling in the small safe group and create a group's opinion.

And then share.

And then share to entire group. So that process is very basic.

Yeah, and it makes a lot of sense. I work similarly because personal opinions in the big group, it's usually not a good idea.

Wow.

How do you— but still in the small groups, how do you avoid something like leadership bias? So if there is the leader in a small group, everyone agrees to the leader. Or is it a problem or not? And how do you counterbalance that?

Well, usually in Japan, we pay close attention to how group up or who we should invite for the workshop because, yeah, if we discuss with their boss or senior, some people feel barrier to speak up their honest feeling or opinion. So yeah, those kind of structure, yeah, is how we set up, how we create safe space is crucial in Japan. So yeah, we really care about the hierarchy and the privilege. So which part of authority is affecting workshop?

Does this mean that sometimes authority is not invited?

Yes, sometimes we don't invite the boss or Yeah, authority or high rank person into the workshop. Yeah.

This makes a lot of sense.

Is it the same as Western cultures, or is it diff— is there a different approach?

So it depends. I think it's difficult to say, to generalize the Western cultures, because for instance, I live in the Netherlands and I'm German, so hierarchies are usually very flat and it's easy to speak on eye level to the boss.

Hmm.

In general, and they are different, there are exceptions. I think if you go into a traditional company in Germany, there might be hierarchies and the boss is more like the authority figure.

Okay, yeah, figure out.

Yeah, and then if you go, I think, to France or to Spain or Italy, there's more hierarchy.

Wow.

But then, yeah, and then it depends on the boss. I had situations where I said maybe it's better not to invite the boss, and then the boss wasn't happy.

Yeah, they always try to jump in, but Yeah, sometimes those kind of boundary is important to create safety.

Yeah, and then to decide when is it best for the leader or the person in power to speak first, if they can show vulnerability, and when it's best to speak last.

Ah, right, right. Yeah, I agree with that.

You spoke about psychological safety. Is there a word for psychological safety in Japanese, and what does it mean in your culture?

I think it's same meaning of creating safe space where people can share their true feeling and their opinion, not less hesitate to be Become born of everything.

Yeah, so it is the same.

Yes, yes.

Do you also work with Western— with groups that are mixed with Western participants and Japanese?

Uh, yes, sometimes. Not, not many opportunities, unfortunately, but yeah, sometimes I conduct a March Culture Workshop Including Japanese and people from Western cultures.

This sounds very complex. Yes, it is. How do you balance the needs for silence, pause, friction, sharing personal things?

Well, that is something I was always struggling with. But incorporating and embracing those cultural differences, I usually try to address these cultural differences explicitly, like either through the context I set or sometimes in the check-in activity themselves.

Mm-hmm.

So to highlight the diversity of participants. So Once the differences are out in the open, at least it's easier to be kind or thoughtful for one another, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

Sometimes, like, I invite introduce, self-introduce activities. Like, I ask people to move to one side of the room, if their communication style is more tended to be straightforward, and then to the other side, if their styles tend to be more indirect.

Yeah.

It's kind of a lighthearted way to surface the difference without judgment is something I usually try to And then also recognize who in the workshop then speaks and how to interpret. Yes, yes, yes. Those, yeah, those surface indifference is important, I think. And another approach is sometimes I invite a group by similar cultural background at the beginning of the workshop. And ask them to create ground rules for the workshop. So that way they can reflect on their own norm first, and then they can gradually open up the space for more intercultural dialogue.

Yeah. What would be standard ground rules for your Japanese workshops?

I have a good one. I think the most common ground rule for Japanese people is a kind of inviting speak up. So, hey, please, let's try to speak up. Or sometimes, okay, listen to everyone's voice. I think these are common ground rules for Japanese participants.

Yeah. It's funny, for usually in my— if I have ground rules, one is listen a little bit louder. Louder?

Listen more.

Speak less. Speak less, OK.

Wow, I need to memorize that for the next workshop.

Maybe not in a Japanese one. And one is make I statements. So speak about your personal experience and your personal opinion. And I can see how this is very different than in Japan. Wow, wow, wow.

Like I, I message, right?

Yeah, exactly.

Interesting.

It would be interesting to have standard ground rules next to each other to compare.

Yeah, right, right. I heard my Indian colleague and they try to pose ground rule like silent is another participation, participant.

Oh, you don't have to tell this Japanese.

Yeah, so wow, so interesting. Yeah, so we I didn't come up with that ground rule in Japanese culture.

So, and I interviewed, um, Katerina last week on the Māori in New Zealand and their facilitation, and she said the most important is to bring all of your feelings and emotions into the room. So it's— she doesn't like to speak about cards Because then it's— you're not talking about yourself and you're not bringing your emotions. They would sing and shout. Wow, sing and shout.

Wow, that is a bit hard for Japanese participants. Wow. But those differences are quite interesting for me.

So for my— what I assume, and I would be curious, is that there's a lot happening in the preparation. What is the role of preparation? So how much happens before the workshop?

Uh, you meant to say for facilitator or—

And with the group, both.

Ah, okay. Well, for facilitator, I think facilitators in Japan spend many time for preparation because I think for Japanese facilitator, preparation is very important because our culture tended to avoid uncertainty.

Hmm.

Yeah, we don't need unexpected surprise in the workshop. So yeah, sometimes I work with international facilitator, like co-facilitator, and I found Japanese facilitator more spend time for preparation, not to— how can I say— not to unexpected happen.

Yeah. So yeah.

We are a bit meticulous.

Yeah. Yeah.

And for participant, honestly, compared to other culture, Japanese participants are quite punctual. So it's less time to— how can I say— warm people up before the Workshop. So sometimes when I join as a participant in the international workshop, people tend to spend more time before the workshop to making atmosphere and create a comfortable space waiting for people. But Yeah, in Japan, maybe it might be the reason to take time for diversions. But yeah, people have less time to— yeah, less time before work.

When I hear minimizing uncertainty—

Yes.

Is it— there's so much to unpack because there are a lot of facilitators I have interviewed who believe in emergence. So yes, they have an agenda, but once they come in the room, they realize we need something else, right? And then they throw the agenda away.

Yeah, right.

And this is uncertainty for the facilitator, but it's also uncertainty for the group, right? Would you do this in Japan?

Honestly, yes, but it might be Depends on the case. So yeah, we try to prepare as much as possible and try to stick to the agenda. But yeah, as you mentioned, we are space for something to emerge.

Mhm.

So if different things pop up and we regard it's really important for the group, Okay, so we sometimes throw it away, our original agenda, and then focus on the things we came up. But sometimes in the business context, client needed to stick to the program. If the workshop is the first workshop or the initial stage of the workshop to gain the trust of client. So it really depends on the case, but facilitator at least try to incorporate uncertainty even though we try to prepare a lot.

Yeah. And this makes a lot of sense. I think it's the same for me and In Western, the better you have prepared, the easier it is to be present and to say, we do something different.

Yes.

It's very true. What remains your facilitation challenge?

Well, so far, most of my facilitation experience is in Japan, or at least within other Asian countries. So I'd really love to grow into a facilitator who can work more inclusively across cultures, especially in more global settings. And to be honest, I still feel a little hesitant when facilitating a workshop in English, especially for native speakers. So, but that's exactly why I want to gain more experience in that area. So if anyone listens to this podcast interested in working together, I'd be happy to connect.

Wonderful. I will put your contact in the show notes. Yeah, we learn the most by doing, right?

Yes.

And by collaborating.

Yeah, collaborating is Yeah, well, that is most important factor, I think, to learn.

Um, and also I, I find it sometimes very confrontational to co-facilitate because you realize how different the approaches are, the preferences. Lots of preparation, no preparation, emergent, stick to the plan. Yes, yes.

Yeah, I love co-facilitation, learning from different cultures, different personalities, and different expertise.

What would be your advice to your younger self when you just started facilitating?

Wow, I love this question. If I could, one piece of advice to younger self, I think I'd say, uh, don't always look for value and learning outside yourself.

Hmm.

When I started working as a facilitator, there are not many people doing facilitation as a profession. So I felt the pressure to catch up. So I took lots of courses or read so many books. and tried to absorb as much as I could. And of course, out of all of them helped, it gave me methodology or technique or perspective. But as many facilitators know, facilitation isn't just about technique.

Mm-hmm.

It's also about our presence and attitude. So I just being grounded and trusting participant in the process, we can already provide the positive influence in the room. So that is something I didn't realize first, and it took me a long time to truly understand it.

Hmm.

And I would say same goes for cultural aspect of facilitation. So when I was younger, I always looked for maybe best practice is coming from other countries or—

Yeah.

But now I've come to realize there's real value in unique way we facilitate in Japan. So we have our own styles and our own rhythm and our own forms. of cares, so they are just meaningful. So yeah, our cultural background, our natural way of being is— that's a part of strength as a facilitator.

Can I ask 2 follow-up questions?

Absolutely.

One is, because it also came up in my interview with Katerina, That she, when she started facilitating, all the literature came from the West. So it was American methodologies and activities that did not fit. And so I would be curious, how did it change? And what is then the— if we would read a Japanese facilitation book, what would we find?

In Japan, yes. Now we have many books, we can find many books about facilitation in Japanese and it's written about the Japanese practice. So yeah, maybe our history is about approximately 20 years, around that.

Mm-hmm.

So we have a nonprofit organization called Facilitators Association of Japan, and the organization is established more than 20 years ago, and many facilitators try to create network and learn together. So recently, there are many books written about Japanese facilitation techniques.

Beautiful. And then I assume it's more rooted in your traditions and Japanese rituals.

Yeah, I guess so. Maybe at the time I started working as a facilitator, most of the book about facilitation technique is coming from maybe Western culture or American culture. But after spending 20 years, we have a lot of case study for Japanese society. So yeah, we can find many books about the case study of which technique is appropriate in which situation.

One last question, personal. You mentioned that, and I 100% agree, that facilitation is the inner work. So to find trust in ourselves, what is a practice? What is one practice that has helped you to develop this confidence or to do the inner work, so to speak?

Okay, this is my personal habit, but it's meditation.

Mm-hmm.

Is one custom. People might see meditation as a practice, as a facilitator, but to me, it's a part of, yeah, part of enhance— enhancement to be more sensitivity, to gain more sensitivity about what am I feeling now or what Do I want to share it from inside of my heart?

Hmm.

So that kind of sensitivity, feeling inside, is really important. Not— maybe it's not only for facilitators in Japan, but many experienced facilitators would feel the same stuff. But to me, it's also important to be sensitive about What I feel now. So meditation is a good— not technique, but good, good habit. Yeah, to nurture our self-confidence and self-assurance.

Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much for your time.

Great.

And your openness and sharing and allowing me to ask all the ignorant questions.

Thank you so much for a wonderful opportunity. I'm so honored.

And I will put your, um, your contact details in the show notes, so whoever is interested to work with you and learn more from you, um, can find you there.

Yeah, thank you so much. Absolutely.

Thank you. Have a wonderful weekend. Thank you for staying tuned and for listening until the very end. I hope that you found the inspiration and the wisdom that you are looking for. And I hope that you will subscribe to the show so that you never miss any of the interviews with another inspiring facilitator from across the world. I'm devoted to continue this podcast and to deliver weekly an episode that maintains the quality that you expect and you deserve. And if you would like to help me to maintain this quality and to keep the podcast free, please help us visit workshops.work/support to make a small donation to keep the podcast free. Thank you so much. I hope to be in your ears next week. Bye.