In this crash‑course Q&A, Nicolas Cole explains that ghostwriters encounter two fundamental client archetypes: brand‑focused clients who care about thought‑leadership, audience building and long‑term leverage, and direct‑response clients who obsess over immediate metrics like leads, clicks and follower counts. Cole argues that brand clients are the smarter target because the desired outcome—building a library of intellectual property (newsletters, EECs, podcasts, social posts)—is easier to deliver and creates a compounding asset that scales the client’s online presence. He advises against using follower‑growth numbers in testimonials, recommending language that highlights attention, content creation, and the resulting library. When crafting case studies, the narrative should focus on moving a client from “zero content” to an established content library, emphasizing the shift from manual repetition to automated leverage. Cole also stresses that the biggest market is founders and entrepreneurs with no existing content; for those with some content, the focus should be on repurposing (e.g., turning podcasts into newsletters) and filling gaps. The video concludes with a plug for his free “Premium Ghostwriting Blueprint” masterclass and his book, “The Art and Business of Ghostwriting,” as entry points for aspiring ghostwriters.
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Quick little crash course for everyone here because it's a really important concept to understand. In ghostwriting, you end up working with two different types of clients. You have brand clients, which are people that aren't as concerned with metrics. I'll say it that way. Like, it's— they're not like people who want to run Facebook ads and go, I spend $5, I expect to make $10. Okay, brand clients are more interested in high-level thought leadership. They understand default assumption. If I create content on social platforms, more good things happen. If I collect more email addresses, more good things happen. If I have more people on my newsletter, more good things happen. As much as we obsess over like direct response marketing internally here, we tend to lean more in that direction. Like, I don't need, I don't need math to tell me that it's a good idea to create content on the internet or to capture email addresses. Right? Like, I just know that that's a good thing. And there are a lot of business owners who fall into that category. Personally, that is where I would recommend everyone play, because I think it is a significantly easier outcome to deliver on. Right? What's, what's the transformation? What's the outcome? You're not creating content. I help you create content. You're not collecting emails. I help you collect emails. Right? The other, the other type of client is one that is the opposite of that. They are very direct response marketing focused. So they're like, okay, if I'm going to create 14 pieces of content in a week, how many leads am I generating? How many of those leads convert into customers? Right. They hyper-obsess over those types of metrics. You can do that. It is just a lot harder. And there's a reason why that sort of mentality tends to fall more in the world of paid ads because paid ads are, are a very clear exchange. I click buttons, I spend X amount of money, I generate Y amount of money on the other side, right? Organic, you don't have that same sort of control because organic is based on algorithms. So all you have control over is if the person is creating content or no, right? Same thing with like an EEC. It's like the EEC is just intended to educate people, you know, you don't have control over the client's offer, landing page, pricing, sales team, right? So those are the two types of clients that you're gonna inevitably interact with. My recommendation to everyone is I would lean more on the brand side because I think it's a significantly easier outcome to generate. You're not doing it, I help you do it. So I guess the first question Tommaso is— at some point you kind of have to make a choice, you know, like which, which direction do you want to go? And second, if you want to use testimonials, regardless of which direction you go, I personally wouldn't lead with I get you X amount of followers because that becomes the thing that you have to promise people. And that's like a race to the bottom. I don't think that's a very productive service. It's like there's too many variables outside of your control. And then second is if you do want to use a testimonial, yeah, all you do is you just go to them and ask. In this particular case, you don't have to make the testimonial, "We generated 20,000 followers." You can make the testimonial, "Helped generate attention for their new product in their industry and client was happy." You know, like you can, you can generalize it more.
Yeah, I guess, I guess that makes sense. So you would just You wouldn't put the 20K followers thing as the headline, like in the spotlight. You wouldn't do that. You would just like focus on—
Personally, I wouldn't. I mean, you're more than welcome to, and you can experiment with it, and at the end of the day, it's not a marriage decision. Like, you can try it and change it and do whatever. But, but personally, I would not recommend going down the path of a service where you promise or lead with follower growth.
Yeah, no, I agree. And that's the whole reason I asked this question. So thanks for, I guess, confirming that. I guess my follow-up question to that is if I take this, you know, the opposite approach, which is like you said, like going for branding clients, how do you like, I guess, quantify that? So let's say I start with working with a client, you know, like you said, we go from no content to content. Surely they're gonna get some followers, they're gonna get something out of it, but how do you like quantify that if they don't necessarily make a stupid amount of money or, you know, they don't get a lot of followers from it? I guess what I'm asking is how do you put that in words in a case study, if that makes sense?
Yeah, so this is an extremely important nuance. I understand why this is a hard thing, not just for you. I mean, I've run into this 1,000 times. Like, I understand why this is a hard thing for people to wrap their heads around because it's extremely nuanced. The way that you have to frame the value is that it is not about specific metrics. Like, if, if they get more followers, great, but that's not what you're focused on. If engagement trends up over time, great. That's not what you're focused on. If they collect more and more emails, great. That's not necessarily what you're focused on. The primary value of working with brand-focused clients is scaling them on the internet via things that they write. And so what that means is the value of it isn't in the metrics. The value is in the library. So hypothetically, you're the CEO of a B2C consumer tech company. The thing that is the most helpful to that sort of person is the fact that they are in their life right now manually repeating the same things over and over and over again. They're getting on sales calls saying the same things over and over again. They're answering the same customer questions over and over and over again. They're meeting with investors. They're saying the same stories over and over and over again. They're repeating their company's mission over and over and over again. And so why do they work with you? Well, yeah, all of those metrics you would hope would trend up over time, but the reason they're working with you is because they want to, on some level, stop doing that manually. They want to build a library that scales them on the internet. And every time they create a piece of content, every time that they build an EEC, every time that they send a newsletter, what are they doing? They are building their library of IP. That in and of itself is tremendously valuable, right? Like, we all know that. You have two people side by side. One person has nothing written on the internet, no library at all, and another CEO or another founder has 1,000 newsletters and 5,000 tweets and 3,000 podcasts and everything crystallizing their thinking. Which person has more leverage? Which person has a wider net that attracts opportunities? We all understand that it's the second person, right? We know that. So when you're on a call with someone and they're like, yeah, but if you can't promise me 1,000 followers a week, what's the value of the service? You have to sort of pull back and reeducate them and go, let's think about this for a second. Right now you are creating zero content, which means you have zero leverage, which means you are repeating things over and over and over again. 'When I work with you, we build your library, which means we are building a compounding asset over time. That asset is tremendously valuable to you. Wouldn't you agree?' And the person goes, 'Yeah, actually, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.' So it's like, it's actually not that difficult of a thing. It's just we overcomplicate it and we're so used to you measure marketing with numbers. And the reality is every person on the internet that has organic, that every other person looks at and goes, I want what they have. That person isn't creating content based on a dashboard. That person is just creating things because they understand on some level, the more I create, the more leverage I have, the more my library grows, the more value I create. You know what I mean?
Yeah, no, that makes sense. I guess I was just trying to understand how it would, I would frame it as a case study. So what you're saying is essentially the narrative would be more like, when we started working together, they were not on the internet, something around along those lines, and now they are. So they're on the map.
Exactly. For everyone here, it's like, you have, don't overcomplicate it. The value of any of the big 3 ghostwriting services, social content, newsletters, educational email courses, the value, the measure for success is you're not doing it, I helped you do it. You didn't have an EEC, now you have an EEC. You didn't have a way of educating customers on Autopilot, now you have a mechanism for educating customers on Autopilot. Like, that is the value.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Cool, great question.
Thanks, man.
Yep, glad you asked it. Yeah, and follow-up: What about those who already have articles, podcasts, newsletters? Yeah, well, first of all, I would encourage everyone here, You should not be trying to land the person who's already doing things 9 out of 10. It's like when people pitch me and they're like, "Hey, Cole, I think I could help you write your emails." It's like, we have an incredibly robust and advanced internal email writing department, right? Like, the chances that someone can help me go from 9.5 to 10 are very low. So for everyone here, you should be focused on helping people who are at 0. And what is the total addressable market of people who are at zero? It is the vast majority of people, right? So the widest number of people who need your help the most are all the people who are at zero. And then if you do end up talking to someone who's a little bit further along, maybe they do have a podcast or they do have a newsletter or whatever, chances are they need help doing it a lot better and/or they need help leveraging it in a different way. So yeah, you have a podcast, but you don't have a newsletter. You should be turning every podcast episode into a newsletter. Yeah, you have a podcast and newsletter, but you're not actively creating social content and CTAing back to the newsletter. You need help creating social content, right? So there's always a problem to solve. Hey, by the way, if you're brand new to the world of ghostwriting, maybe you've heard the term but aren't really sure what it is or how it's different from copywriting or content writing. Check out premiumghostwritingblueprint.com. It's in in the description below, okay? This is a free masterclass that I've put together for writers who want to monetize their skills and love for writing with ghostwriting. This is what I did, and ghostwriting completely changed my life. It's how I quit my job. It's how I quadrupled the amount of money I was making. It's how I've gotten to work with so many smart, amazing people, but also have time for my own writing, like writing this book, The Art and Business of Ghostwriting. Anyways, check it out. If you're at all interested in making money from your writing, I would really encourage you to get into ghostwriting. And this free premium ghostwriting blueprint in the description below is the best place to start.
