Ralph (DSO) and Austin Live Chat!

Do not see it yet. Yes, we are live.

We are live on Facebook and we are live on YouTube, I assume. If anyone could give us a comment, a thumbs up, a hey howdy in the comments, we will see that we are good to go. But I'm assuming we're good to go. And let me, uh, go to my channel here. Pardon me, ladies and germs, while we do a little housekeeping here. And it says we are live. Okay, cool. Anthony Z says, sup, daddies. I don't know, kind of like that, daddies. It is. Every now and then somebody will call me dad and I always like, oh, it's kind of cute. Makes me feel all paternal and dad-like. But anyway, welcome everyone. For those of you following us from Facebook, YouTube, and Twitter, we are simulcasting if this is working properly across all three channels. So thank you all so very much for joining us this morning. My name is Ralph Brewer Brewer. You may know me as DSO from dadstartingover.com. I am the bald dude that's in all those little videos that keep popping up all over the place. And with me today is my partner in crime, Mr. Austin, who is a member of the Dad Starting Over team. He is a coach in the Dad Starting Over world, a member obviously of the, of the DSO fraternity, our private men's group where we do all kinds of cool stuff. Austin does coaching, as I mentioned. Austin hosts meetings, and Austin has written a book, and I'm going to bring that up right now before I forget. Graphic is coming up on screen, uh, Why Sex Ends After Kids and How to Fix It. You can purchase this in PDF format. It is mobile-friendly PDF format, so you can read it right from your phone. And you can purchase this directly from the Dad Starting Over website at dadstartingover.com, along with my 4 books, along with everything else. We have courses, we have our private members group. And one of the positives of the private members group is that it gets you discounts on all these products that I mentioned in addition to a lot of cool free stuff. So check it out, dadstartingover.com or the DSO fraternity at dsofraternity.com. Both get you kind of the same place. Austin, what to chat about today? We were talking briefly before we got on here about, uh, something we have seen within ourselves and something that we have seen in the group. And you can see it on the public comments in one form or another. You can see it directly in the conversations we have in the DSO fraternity private discussion groups is men and how we change, don't we, after we get married and have kiddos. That's a big open topic, I know. And you laugh because it's one of those where everybody goes, oh yeah, oh yeah. We have known, we have known men who are the most alpha male tough men in the office. It could be in the military, it could be, you know, he's a cop, it could be, you know, something like over-the-top real masculine like that, man stuff. And they're the boss at work and nobody messes with them, and they walk with their head held high and everybody knows he's Mr. Badass. But as soon as he walks in the front door at home, he's, he's a different dude. And we can all, I think, relate to that. There's— it's on a spectrum, you know. Some guys are just a you know, they become cutesy little dad once they walk in the door and that's fine. While others are just like, I become this, "Yes, dear! Whatever you say, dear! I don't care, dear! I'm scared to death of my wife! I just want to crawl in a hole and die!" type of guys and everything in between. Can you relate to that, Austin? And what do you think?

I absolutely can and I'm sitting here— I was laughing at first because this is one of those topics where I could just and have at many times just go on a 30-minute spiel about all of it. But you just made me think about it in your intro in, in a different way because, yeah, in, in the, in the Marine Corps, it's surprising how stark the difference is and how common it is, mainly because you've got the, the ultra masculine, masculine, um, situation where, you know, Marines go to work. They, they have to be very strong and it's all about leadership, but they're also away a lot and they work long hours. So you've, you've got men who are at work and their, their wives are 100% running the home and it's, and it's even more common for the for the difference to be he's at work, she's stay-at-home mom, because of moving around so much. So you've got men who've been in the Marine Corps 10, 20 years. They're, they're seen by everybody in their unit as a really strong leader, but their wife is running the house, not, not just doing everything, but in complete control. And, and when you see them in private situations around their wife and kids, you recognize it immediately. I've not thought about that a whole lot lately, but that's, that's really cool that you pointed out, made me think about it because that it's so common in the military just because how often men are, are either gone on deployments or gone doing training missions, working long hours. There's a lot asked of them and they are in a very high tempo, high leadership demanding, you know, confidence. You can't really show a lot of frailty in that situation. Then they go home and their wife is just lighting them up in a lot of cases.

And do you think for a lot of guys, I know that's a very particular case with the military and everything, but I think it's, you know, illustrative of a bigger issue that a lot of guys can relate to. In that particular case, Do you think it's a matter of the guy is so spent emotionally, physically from doing all this traveling and doing all these really high-stress things sometimes, especially if they go off to war, some kind of active duty thing, and that they just don't have anything left in the tank? And when they get home, you know, boy, you could go down a lot of rabbit holes here. Is the wife recognized that here's this depleted man and that really kind of angers me? I want him to have energy when he walks in the door. I want to see a leader when he walks in the door and look at this wuss of a man and she lashes out? Or is it just a matter of now she's just being normal wife and he just can't take it because he didn't have anything left in the tank?

Yeah, I mean, it is constant conflict in the military, and I don't mean physical. I mean, you know, even, even just at a unit, you are assuming you're looking for a long career and you're, you're trying to progress and all that. You are butting heads with other alpha type men. You are, so you run into a lot of conflict at work and then you come home. But I think even more than that is they're out of their element. You know, when they're at work, when they're with their unit, with their Marines, they are extremely just switched on and they know what they're talking about. They've been doing it for you know, years, they've studied it up one side and down the other. They just know their craft really well, whatever they do for work. They get home and they aren't— they're the exact opposite at home. And that, that is where this really applies to everyone, because instead of, instead of knowing where everything is, when everything happens, and how things have to be done like they do at work. They, they get home and they don't know anything, and, and their wife knows everything and has full authority. So yeah, you, you've— you're spent, you're stressed, you've spent all day in conflict, you want some peace and quiet, that typical, um, I want peace at home mentality by men. Um, but then you're also at a serious disadvantage because you're, you're not in charge, you don't know the information. So yeah, 100%. And, and you, you know, you mentioned that that's very particular, and I mentioned that that's, that's something I haven't thought about a whole lot. And yeah, that's, that's because I've been out for almost 10 years now. So a lot of my, you know, recognizing of all of these traits have been in the corporate world, have been with guys in our group that just do all kinds of different work. And very similar scenario, you know, your work. You're, you're very passionate and driven with work. You come home, you want peace, and you don't know the information because you don't put in the time to know your home, to know the information, the schedule, the routine, the needs of home the way that you plan for work.

So you're coming at it from the angle of here's a guy who's just ignorant of what's going on in the home workplace. He's been at the work workplace, office, whatever it may be, for so many hours a day, and he walks into a situation where he's been gone for 8+ hours and he doesn't know the ins and outs of the logistics of the home. And that could be a source of contention where the wife's like, do you even know— fill in the blank, you know— who your son's teacher is? Do you even know— remember when I asked you to do blah blah blah? And, and this man's just like, I've been gone for so many hours, I'm tired. It's just conflict. There's this big project at work, I got yelled at by the boss, I dropped the ball on something, I lost this thousands of dollars. Here I come home to this. That's one avenue of it. But there's, you know, another group of men who I can relate to who's just— just the act of being in a relationship long-term with someone, just the act of having kids, just the act of having, uh, all this responsibility sitting on your shoulders as a parent, um, kind of neuters men, if you will. That it's when they were single, dating, having fun, and all that weight wasn't on their shoulders, they were a much more vibrant, attractive, active, masculine version of themselves. And a lot of men, myself included, when we get into that world of the domestic, as I often say, the, the family and everything else, just cuts us off at the knees. And we just naturally— the, the sexy dude knob, if you want to call it that, just kind of gets turned down and we're just a former shell of ourselves. And that is, uh, the big turn-off to a lot of women. Like, I'm watching this guy who just comes home from work and he doesn't want to do dick. He just— he doesn't want to go on dates. He doesn't want to do anything. He just— every time he has to do anything with the kids or whatever, he's just like, oh God. And then he becomes Mr. Yes Dear, Whatever You Say Dear guy. And for those of us men, and I think that represents a big chunk of the dudes who have that tendency, the predisposition to become Mr. Schlubby Family Guy. You gotta fight it. And you gotta constantly be like, no, I'm not gonna lose, and then we can go down the road of, I'm not gonna lose my independence as a man, meaning my interests, my hobbies, my whatever that made me the guy that you were initially attracted to, and the guy personally that I liked about myself. I'm not gonna lose that. All right, so I gotta carve out time for that. That's difficult to do, and a lot of wives don't make that very easy. Let's go down that road of— they'll shame you if you try to do something outside of the family unit. A lot of women do. That's a source of contention. That's a source of stress that wears you down. And then what else? You have the issue of just the time that you spend with the kiddos and the wife can get out of hand. And next thing you know, you're not seeing your buddies anymore. You're not doing that hobby thing anymore that you used to love doing. And talking about taking care of your body and gym and all that other stuff. Just no, forget that. I don't have— who has time for that? Because by the time you get home and have dinner and help with the house chores and read bedtime stories and everything else, it's 9:30 at night and it's— you're exhausted and you go to bed at 10. There's a good 30 minutes of you time in each day. That's debilitating to a lot of people, and a lot of people don't have those skills to make all that work. I want to— before we continue on with that school of thought, we have Justin says— Justin in the comments from Facebook says, but at work they are trusted and valued for their expertise and they are respected, and at home they are second-guessed, they are criticized, and they are trained, quote unquote, to be secondary. And I, um, touched on that, Justin. I don't know if you saw a video I did called The Workaholic Man. It's up on— you can see the full video on YouTube, Facebook, and then up on YouTube Shorts and Facebook. I cut it up into sections. That's been one of my most popular videos of all of them that I've done because so many men related to that, of I get rewarded at work with the attaboys and the pats on the back and the people going, dude, you're awesome, and here's your bonus and here's your pay raise. And he just feels like a king. And then when he comes home, you forgot this, you forgot that. Do you know that? You know, he's henpecked. A lot of men can relate to that. I don't know, buddy, in the, in the comments, can you relate to that? And you do feel like a second-class citizen. So what happens is you naturally gravitate towards, honey, I gotta stay at the office a few extra hours, I'm sorry, I got stuff to do. And you may not even be consciously aware. All you know is that as I'm sitting here at this desk doing this work, making this money, I feel really good. And when I go home, I feel really bad. So I'm just going to gravitate towards what makes me feel good. And the man could have dropped the ball at home and not done what he's supposed to do, or he's married to a real battle axe of a woman who's just, you know, a a real chore. Those people exist. Can you relate to any of that, Austin, as far as gravitating towards work and the rewards of work?

I can. And even to answer his entire point, I can speak to that having been on both sides of it. It's having been in that circumstance where you are criticized and second-guessed and you know, expect, maybe even treated as secondary, maybe not expected to be or trained to be. Um, but then not being that way later on, it, it has everything to do with earning that title. So I guess I'm not going to speak to your situation because I don't really know it, but I know having experienced both sides, I earned both sides. So I, I was not engaged. I was not leading. I was not doing the same amount of effort at home as I was at work. So, um, I probably deserved all of that. But then to be on the other side of it, you earn it. You, you, you earn to not be criticized for forgetting every single thing, or to not know what's going on, or to, you know, not have any viable input or help in any situation.

So, yeah, there's the majority of households, I think today both people work, the man and woman. There's still some of your more traditional woman stays home with kiddos or husband stays home. And Austin, that's your situation is wife doesn't work and she work. She's not employed by an outside employer. Ladies, please don't jump on me for just saying that.

Her employer's 4 months old.

Okay, I made the mistake of saying wife doesn't work one time in a video, and uh-oh, oops, doesn't work, excuse me. Oh shit, here we go. You know what I mean, not employed by an outside employer outside of the home. Okay, so that's what we call your more traditional setup, and you have a case can be made from this more traditional old-fashioned kind of setup that man has needs to devote himself to his, his job, his craft, his mission outside of the home 110% in order to make the bacon to bring it home. He cannot be concerned with, um, every little logistical thing to do with the kiddos and the homestead. It's just us men, number one, we don't multitask very well. I'm gonna throw men under the bus there. Um, I'm sorry, I'm the first to say I don't see how my wife and every other woman in my life is able to successfully manage, um, all that shit going on in their head. Now with that being said, a lot of women can't manage that. They try like hell and they drive themselves nuts with so much anxiety and so much pressure that they put on themselves. I have to do this, who else is going to do this? And us men just want to grab them by the shoulders and say, just nobody, it's fine, don't do it. But they bring on, you know, 127 things and put it on their plate. And us men We got room for about 4 or 5 things and then we're done. And so when those 4 or 5 things are work-related, and then we come home to, how come you didn't do these 12 other things? Frankly, we don't have the mental capacity to do that without going nuts. So we don't want to go nuts. Um, so there's that case to be made. Old-fashioned thing— man has only so much room on his plate, he cannot do this. But that's not the case for The vast majority of people, it's the man and woman are working, and the woman has every right to say, I go to the office or whatever just as much as you do, dude, and I'm able to keep going in my head and managing in my head mentally all this shit going on at home. Why can't you? Um, she has a point. So a lot of men, even in that more egalitarian woman works just as much as I do, in a lot of these situations, woman not only works just as much as I do but actually brings home more money than I do. That's a whole other ball of wax there, um, that, uh, they are still playing by the rules of the old-fashioned, hey, I'm Mr. Breadwinner Dude here, I don't have time or the mental capacity to deal with all this shit at home. Sorry, wife, it's just, yeah, I'll leave that to you. Not fair from a man's perspective, somewhat understandable being as how we're wired and being as how we've been trained possibly all these years, seeing generations of men in our family do just that. But, um, it's not necessarily, not necessarily fair to the woman. So we're kind of dancing around and going in circles here trying to figure out all these different scenarios where a man could be in job, career, he feels rewarded, but when he steps through that door at home, he feels like less of a man. He feels like a loser. He feels like, because a failure, I'm not doing as well as I could. And a lot of these men, to their credit, will be like, okay, time to get to work. Let me do what I can to around the house to fix things, do things, take over things. And what a lot of men report, I don't know if anybody wants to share in the comments, please, guys, you're kind of quiet today. We had a lot more comments than the last one of these we did. Is how many of you guys can say it seems like no matter what I do, It's never quite enough. Or wife may say, I just wish you did more fill in the blank. I do. And then it becomes, actually, if you could add these 3 other things on. Okay, done. And actually, if you— in other words, the goalposts keep moving. The what, what makes, uh, what's going to make wife happy. Now you keep chasing that thing of, oh, now I have to make her happy. That's not a very healthy place to be. Trying to chase the crown of, of happy wife, happy life. And instead of sitting down as a couple of adults and hashing things out and figuring out what it is that you need to do to keep this family machine running and keep the, the couple machine running— we're losing sight of that, aren't we? We're all talking about running this family machine and this house machine. We're not talking about the couple. We just forgot all about that. That's a whole other, um, avenue that you need to explore. You can't lose sight of each other. Dating, keeping sexy for each other. Uh, Mike says the honeydew list is endless, LOL. Mike from Facebook. And, uh, Brian, because you're letting her make it. Yep. And Brian says, yeah, it's never enough, they always move the goalposts. Um, and can I speak to that real quick? Yeah, please go ahead.

Because, because that— there was an avenue I want to go down on this, and, and that That point right there really, really lets me launch into it. Going back to something that was said earlier, you know, men do kind of stagnate after, you know, they've kind of gotten their life set in the right direction. And I think, you know, we always talk about the— always— well, it's often talked about the, the bait and switch that women have for men, but there's a bait and switch that men have for women. And, um, something very attractive to women that they look for in a partner is a man who's going somewhere versus a man who's not going somewhere, who's ambitious, who's confident, who's, you know, going to look better tomorrow than he does today, who's going to be more successful tomorrow as he is today. You can try to tie that back to the hypergamous concept, or hypergamy. Um, when, when women find men, when they, when they start dating a man, he's typically in, you know, let's think about the 20-year-old. What does a 20-year-old man work on? He's typically in good shape because he hasn't met his wife yet. He's typically working towards either some profession, or he's in college working towards having a degree so he can get the job. So he's got his goals set towards getting the job, getting the house, getting the life, getting the career. Well, once he checks all those boxes, once he has the girl that he, he wants and he's married, well, That's when the fitness goes away. When he gets that career, he's got the degree. Well, typically, as he gets older, he's not going to be doing all the work that he was doing to get the career anymore. A lot of things, when a man checks all of those boxes, he tends to kind of have his sights set on New Balances with tube socks and grilling all weekend, drinking beer. That, that's just how men kind of are, and that is an extreme turnoff. That's, that's the male bait and switch.

Yeah. And it's also illustrative of, uh, how we are such pack animals and we follow the herd. Um, I go to, as, as somewhat of a nerd and an observer of human behavior and sitting back and watching people how they end up in this Dad Starting Over world, so I'm very sensitive to watching couples and how they interact. I'm telling you, I watch the men and women, the typical mom and dad, you know, in the football games that I go to and the sporting events and so forth. It's almost like all of them got together and said, all right, here's our playbook for being mom. All right, you're going to have this kind of haircut, you're going to wear this kind of clothes, and you're going to nag your husband. And we all agree, we're all going to gain 50 pounds, right? All right, go check, you know, like the huddle, the football game. And then all the men get together and go, all right, here's the deal, we're all going to gain weight too, right? Yes. Okay, cool. And we're all going to get the New Balance sneakers and the dad jeans, and we're just going to to hell with how we look, and we're all just going to say, yes dear, whatever you say dear, and roll our eyes at our wife and drink lots and lots of beer. Okay, you know, clap, you know, huddle over. And it's like, um, where the hell did that come from? Why is it we all seem to agree to this same damn playbook? And, um, you know, I think a lot of it's born out of laziness. A lot of it's born out of the, uh, the, um, yeah, the easy way out, dude. It's, it's It is very difficult to have a kid— kids, plural— and a home and a job and a marriage. It's, it's almost like couples have this mutual understanding of, I'm gonna kind of give up here, do you agree? And like, yeah, me too. Okay, cool. Until, until one of you wakes up and goes, I don't like this too much, and then all hell breaks loose. So wouldn't it be nice if you both did not do that mutual giving up plan that everyone seems to do. And it seems, unfortunately or fortunately for men, it kind of— the onus of steering the ship, of making sure we don't go down that road, kind of rests on our shoulders. We're the leader— God forbid I say that— in the relationship for a lot. Not for everything necessarily, not for every aspect, but for the general tone of the relationship. No, we're not going to give up on us. No, uh, honey, it's important that I, that I look good. Um, uh, heading to the gym 3 days a week. Uh, want to join me? I, I arranged for daycare, babysitter. You know, this— it sounds silly, but that's the level of commitment and work that it takes to not fall under the category of all those people that I see on a daily basis. And nothing against those people, I was one of those as well. But, um, some of us, it takes a while to wake up out of that stupor.

Right. And it's, and it's not even— I can tell in a coaching session when this conversation goes one of two directions. It's either just almost a disgruntled eye roll that I've got to do all this work. You know, I've got to maintain my fitness. I've got to— that when you think of it that way, you know, it's kind of like the person who says, all right, I'll, I'll, I'll cut out junk food and, and get back in shape. And it's like, that, that works for absolutely no one. You, you don't just, uh, oh, I'm gonna go on a, a quick diet, now I'm gonna get down to, to 12% body fat or something like that. It, it comes with a completely different mindset. You have to look at your marriage and where you are in your family and life and everything the way that women likely see the trajectory of a man. You know, I talked about how they, they— the bait and switch, it's really this man is going somewhere. They see the long-term— who is this guy going to be in 5 years? As hard as he's working and ambitious as he is, who's he going to be in 10, 15, 20 years? But then we get settled down and then we just kind of plateau or fall off. We're all— we're typically getting worse in that scenario. And it's like, where was this guy that was ready to kill the world, who was ready to go nuts and, and just take over everything? He, he could have been everything within 30 years. If you look at your, your life, your career, your marriage, your fitness, all the things as I'm only getting better, I'm on an upward trajectory, what is my goal in 2 years, what is my goal in 5 years, you start looking at these things differently. So it's not about, man, I gotta go through all the work just to try to get back to where I was 10 years ago. No, you, you've gotta look at it as your, your next point that you're measured at is right here. And then your next point that you're measured at is right here. You, you can't be where you were at 25 for all of these things. Nobody wants to see a 45-year-old. Who's in the same position as a 25-year-old. So your expectations are actually so much higher. It has to be an ambitious— and that's why mentality is so important in your relationship. Confidence isn't just, I'm good at this. Confidence is, I know I'm successful at this. So the mentality, which is so important to a relationship, we'll say, to a marriage. Mindset, emotions for women is so important. To have a defeated mindset is about as unattractive as you're looking. So—

As your physical looks. Yeah. Now, let's say to Beau's point here, I assume I'm pronouncing that correctly there, Beau. I'm sorry if I'm not. From Facebook, um, you're doing what a lot of people do, which is, yeah, but let me tell you how my wife sucks. Let me tell you the bullshit I had to endure. He says from Facebook, I went out the other day and the garbage becomes full in the house. I didn't put it out where it is beside the front entrance. So if I'm understanding that, the garbage is waiting for you by the front entrance, uh, and you didn't further put it out to the front, whatever. So, and he was put down for it. And he was told, you're entitled. So wife sees husband, honey, I'm home, walk right past a bag of trash, which you just may not have literally seen, uh, because you, you know, you only have so much room in your head. You're a dude, you have 2 other, 3 other things going on your head, probably still work spinning in your head, you have to go take a dump, whatever it may be. And you just walk past the bag of trash and wife is, who has 127 things in her head, uh, is spinning and saying, I can't believe he didn't see that. What kind of entitled Dickhead is he?

And what was your response, Beau?

And thank you, I was gonna say, so what a lot of men in this— it— in the scenario do is very defeated. Here I come again to the old battle axe. I'm treated like, like dog shit. Why do I come home to this? Blah blah blah blah. As opposed to, what's up with you, wife? What's going on? Obviously I didn't see it. I'm gonna go take a dump. I'm gonna go do whatever. The trash will still be there, and then guess what? I'll take it out. All right, are we cool? You don't have to talk to me that way. It's not nice. Frankly, I don't talk to you that way, so I don't get why it is that you would talk to me that way. Now, a lot of men hear that and say, you don't know my wife, dude. Okay, so you're scared to death of your wife. Not a good look, dude. Sorry, that's called— what I just did there was a very mature adult thing to do that sometimes you have to do. I shouldn't have to do it. Sorry, you're in a relationship. Men and women both have to have those kind of talks like that. What you just did there, I don't like. Don't do that again, please. Okay. Um, yeah, I did not—

anything. He just—

he shook your head. You let it go, man. Can't let that shit go. You just trained her. This isn't just a husband-wife thing too. This applies to everything— work, friends, whatever. You're training these people. It's okay to say this shit to me, I don't give a shit, whatever. And then— and you do care, obviously, you're talking about it to the world here on Facebook. It bothers you and it builds resentment and you become a more resentful man and you get angry and you get stressed and you just want to blow your top. And the next thing you know, she says some little innocuous thing at the dinner table on Wednesday and you flip your plate over and said, you know what, fuck you, woman. And she's like, where the hell did this come from? It's from the 97 other times you said this little shit to me and I just let it go in one ear out the other. It's building up and it's, it's angering me. Um, I didn't take it out in the morning. I was heading to bed when she said this. I— the details of the trash are not important here. What's important is that you were very much bothered by it. You didn't say anything at the time. You let it go. And this is one of probably literally hundreds of such incidents. And it got you where you're at today, which is pissed off on Dad Starting Over Facebook page. Um, not picking on you, but dude, we hear this shit all the time. And I'm— Austin and I can raise our hand saying, been there, done that, dude. And we learned our lesson. And, uh, we know you don't let that kind of shit slide. And that you could take that as a very masculine thing, like, woman, don't talk to me that way, if that helps you out. But really, it's, you know, sticking up for yourself, having what they say boundaries. What I tolerate and what I, what I expect out of people in my world. Uh, it's a privilege for her to be your wife. It's a privilege, um, for you to be her husband. That's the way you got to look at this. It's not your right. You don't just let people do whatever it is they want to do and however they want to do it. This is it. This is a main point here, is that we could be talking until we're blue in the face about, uh, leading and being a positive person and being more empathetic to your partner and understanding that your wife is what she's going through all day long and doing your part around the house and so forth. And you may do everything, check the list, do everything right. You're a good boy. You're doing everything like you're supposed to. And your wife or husband or whatever may still be a raging dickhead because they got, who knows what's going on with them, all kinds of problems. You gotta deal with it. Otherwise they continue being a raging dickhead. It's just life, dude. And I hear from so many men and women alike— women are particularly bad about this— is, I shouldn't really have to tell him not to do those things, or I really shouldn't have to tell him to do XYZ positive things. He should just know how to do it. I hear that occasionally from men, a lot from women, and that's a pretty negative toxic thing to do because that just ends up— you're just asking to be upset. You're just asking to be resentful. You're just sitting back and watching, going, let me see if he does that. There it is. There's the thing I knew he was going to do or not do. Now I'm pissed. Not good. You got to be open and talk about these things. He should just know, or she should just know. He or she doesn't. Now what? He should just know to take out that trash. Well, Bo didn't. No biggie. Bo, for the fifth time, can you please take out the trash? I appreciate it. Oh yeah, my bad. And he takes it out. That's really all there is to it. It's not a big deal. And, um, can anybody— any other comments or any— anybody else, uh, relate to a lot of this? We are officially about a half hour into this now. Thank you all so much for, uh, joining us again. DSO here, for those that don't know, just stumbled upon this on Facebook, uh, Ralph Brewer, aka DSO from dadstartingover.com, here with Austin, who is the, uh, a coach on the Dad Starting Over team within our men's group called the DSO Fraternity. And he has also authored a book, of which I'm putting the book up here, graphic on screen, called Why Sex Ends After Kids and How to Fix It. Check it out on the Dad Starting Over website at dadstartingover.com, along with all my other books and products and membership to our men's group. A men's group, private group for men only called the DSO Fraternity. We have live meetings, we get together on Zoom and talk, we record all the meetings. We have over 5— we still at the 500-some hour mark, are we up to the 600-hour mark by now of recorded meetings that are out there? So that's a lot of freaking material to ingest.

Only in the hundreds.

Yeah, yeah, I know, it's up there. And we're adding like 3 new meetings every week to it, so it just keeps building and building. In addition to articles and a Dads Starting Over podcast and a private discussion group, we can text each other or type to each other. We have a Discord server for our lifetime members. We have— what else? Discounts on coaching. We have live meetups, of which we're having one coming up here in New Orleans, or New Orleans, however you want to pronounce it, Louisiana, in April of next year. So we're looking forward to that. That'll be cool.

Yeah, we've done, um, we've done Nashville, we've done Austin, Texas, we've done Las Vegas. Now we're doing— and, and don't forget, we've also got our, uh, our satellite groups. You know, they just had, uh, uh, Matefest. So down in Australia, they had, had Matefest by— what is that, April, I think?

Yeah, that was the second one too. They've done one two years in a row now this week.

Weekend, this weekend they're having the first ever Eurofest.

So they're, they're meeting in Amsterdam this weekend, the weekend after, not this weekend, but the weekend, one of those. Yeah, yeah, I'm not going. Yeah, we got some of our, we got some of our European dudes meeting up and we got some guys from the US are like, good reason to go, go to Amsterdam. So we got dudes from the US going there. We got a guy from India who is going to, uh, Amsterdam too. So we have dudes from all over the planet. It's pretty cool. With all kinds of different experience, all getting together in person, on the internet, on Zoom, in discussion forums. And that's the key, is that this ties in perfectly what we're talking about here, where men lose themselves. They have this sense of purpose at work, and they come home, they become lesser of a man. What a lot of those men in those situations— what they have in common is they don't have many men in their lives, fellow men. They maybe have the neighbor that they occasionally do the, uh, you know, the neighborhood barbecue with or whatever, but they don't sit down and go, well, Bob, you know, how's the marriage? How are things going? What's up with you? And da da da da da. And how's your love life going? And what do you do to keep things— that, that's just for most people in a typical platonic relationship, casual relationship, that is just verboten talk. We don't talk about that kind of stuff. It's weird. You have to be a really close personal relationship with a guy. And that's the kind of conversations we have all day long, 24/7. In the DSO fraternity. So check it out, dadstartingover.com or dsofraternity.com. Uh, Bo says, I'm here in Northern Ontario, Canada, border town of Salt— I'm sorry, I don't know how to— Salt something Marie. Is that Michigan? You have to excuse my ignorance, Bo. I'm not sure what you're saying there, but I think what you're saying is a border town of someplace in Michigan. Is that what you're saying?

Cool.

We have a lot of Canucks in our group. So yeah, a lot of Canadians. And, uh, I'm trying to think, a couple in particular come to all of our events, like Vince. He's up in the Yellowknife area. You see the, the little, uh, license plate up here? He gave me that. And, uh, I got all kinds of cool stuff from guys. I gotta— here, let me reach over here. Check this out. A boomerang given to me with a little personalized plaque on there. I don't know if you can see it. Uh, given to me by my dudes, uh, from the Australian chapter of the DSO fraternity. And then I got a— I think this is also from Vince— Ragged Ass Road.

Ragged Ass Road. Yeah, and that's actually a road in Northern Northwest Territories.

And can anybody guess what this is? Exactly what that is. This is, uh, this is a kangaroo scrotum. I'm pausing there for dramatic effect. I am holding live on camera for Facebook for potentially millions of people to see. Yeah, right. Okay, thousands of people to see, um, me holding a, uh, a Dismembered kangaroo scrotum. It's like a, like a lucky rabbit's foot on a, on a keychain thingy, but it's a kangaroo scrotum. Very soft. That's it. That's all I got. Nothing more funny.

It was soft for the kangaroo balls. You went with soft.

It's very, yeah, very strokable. All right, that's getting worse.

I was gonna compliment your segue until then.

Oh, my bad.

Okay, I did turn Your transition talking about, uh, fraternity and men's groups and, and having a— that, that social network of just men, that, that was perfect until we got into kangaroo nuts.

That's fine. No, pretend that didn't happen then. Record. Uh, well, Brian here says, uh, we get too isolated now. I've worked from home for over a decade, so it's important to maintain those friendships. Yeah. Um, I'm trying to think, do I have very many men in my own personal real life, my little social group that I get together on a regular basis and talk to, have really deep conversations with? No, not really. And it's not for lack of effort. It was— it's basically, hey John, want to get together for beers and chat and hang out? I can't, I, you know, Billy's got a soccer thing, or my wife says we got to go to this wedding thing, whatever. Okay. And dude, that's like every weekend for a period of years you hear that, and eventually you just kind of give up on each other and just like, yeah, I got my work thing, he's got his kids thing, and vice versa. And yeah, it's just the way it is. And, um, that's very, very, uh, very, very common in the dude world. It seems like maybe it's just from my own little personal social circle with my wife and watching her in action that they— it seems to come easier for the ladies to maintain the social group, from what I've seen, where it's, uh, they're able to shoehorn that in better. They, they're definitely more social or more open personality-wise to talking about a lot of things that maybe men don't feel comfortable with, unless you join a group like ours, DSO Fraternity, and with the express purpose of talking about that stuff. Like, that's why we're in this group, is to talk about that stuff and learn from each other. We're not just random dudes that just bumped into each other on the internet and decided, hey, you know what we should talk about? No, this the express purpose of this group is to get together and talk about it. So when you get with a casual friend, even if you've known them for years, typically the conversation goes football, kids stuff, work stuff, hey, how's your wife doing, and it kind of ends there. And so it's not really good breeding ground for very, uh, close, intimate, personal connection with another dude. And that is hugely important, you know.

I, I think that's a huge reason why so many guys in our group, you know, that they opt for the, the lifetime membership. And, you know, even though they came to the group with specific issues they wanted to address, they addressed them 2 years ago, they're still there and they're not going anywhere because they didn't just gain knowledge and, and, you know, the ability to improve their lives. They have found a fraternity of guys that they can call up anytime they need to. They can reach out, get feedback on stuff. And a lot of friends. So yeah, I mean, speaking myself as someone who's a remote worker, I've been ever since COVID I've been in this office. Um, it's having the fraternity is very important because it is a group of guys that you can always talk to things about. You can get feedback on what you're doing and you've just got a lot of good friends there. It doesn't necessarily matter that we aren't really face to face all the time. I mean, it's, it's a good— as, as Pat just said in the group, a tribe of men that continuously push to be better. It's, it's, it's all about that. If I wasn't a coach, or if I stopped being a coach— not saying anything— I would absolutely stay in the fraternity as, uh, as long as they'll have me.

I guess we'll keep you around. Um, yeah, so here's the thing. How many men we talk to, or at least I see in my comments and so forth, that who perpetuate a myth, if you will, which I understand the origin of it, which is, I'm tough, I'm a man, I'm a more solitary creature, I really don't need friends. Sorry, I just don't. I'm not that, you know, I'm, I'm not needy like that. I'm cool on my own. To a point, yes, but you're still a human being. And one of the cornerstones of being a human being is social interaction with other human beings. It literally is good for your mental health. A form of torture— most countries have determined that a form of torture within the prison system, for example, is to take a person and put them in what we call solitary confinement, don't allow them to interact with any other human being. What happens? Why is that considered a form of torture in a lot of countries? Because you literally go nuts. You, you need that. There's something within the human brain and the way that we're wired that we need that social interaction with other human beings, even if it's casually, whatever. We need that or we go nuts. And so here a lot of guys just hole themselves up at home, especially like you say post-COVID, and they, you know, you have your, uh, your white-collar, uh, office job that you can do from anywhere as long as you have a Zoom connection and an internet connection. Um, that, that really lends itself to not ever having genuine conversation with other people. And then like I say, next thing you know it's 7 o'clock, next thing you know you're putting the kids to bed, next thing you know it's 9:30, next thing you know it's 10 o'clock and it's bedtime. You do it all over again the next day, and then Saturday rolls around and you're off to, uh, travel baseball, something for your kid, or soccer or whatever. It's very, very tough, uh, to shoehorn that, that time in with other dudes. But you have to, guys. There's just no way around it. You need to carve out time. And if you have an understanding partner, if for those of you that are married, um, they will understand that and they will see that. And what's surprising to a lot of men is where a lot of women go, yes, please go. Yes, you need to get out. I, I've seen you in this home enough. You're just sitting on the couch doing nothing, whatever. It's not the most attractive thing in the world. Go do something, please. Meet other men. You know, go be the guy that you used to be when we first got together. Kind of surprises a lot of guys to hear that. But if your partner shames you for that, again, that's one of those negative moments. Let it roll off of you. Or I should say not let it just roll off of you, but what's the word? Confront. Don't be afraid of the confrontation. Like, what I'm talking about is not bad. This is what I want to do. You do the same thing, wife. I'll stay home with the kiddos. You go out with your friends and do things, or go to the— go to library, go to the spa, whatever, have time for yourself. But what's important for me is to go out and hang out with some fellow dudes. This is what I'm going to do. It's every Wednesday night. These are normal things, guys, and it's something that we've lost touch with as men overall. A lot of these fraternal groups have gone by the wayside. That's why we have these, uh, the Mason groups and the lodges and all these other things, is because dudes for generations have realized we need to get together as men, away from the rest of the world and just talk and hang out. And that's going away, unfortunately. That's why we have groups like ours that Austin and I and Pat, who's in the group— thank you, Pat, for joining in and commenting, I appreciate it, buddy— um, all members of the DSO fraternity. So check it out, gentlemen.

Um, yeah, and of course it's surprising that she says, yeah, go on, because when every day you go home from work when she's complaining about not taking the trash out and you haven't done this and you haven't done that why would she want you to leave? Why would she want you to be going off and doing something you enjoy if she's constantly badgering you about things that you're not getting done at home? So it's surprising when she tells you, yes, please go somewhere, but also take the trash out.

And then Bo here says, most men don't give their women a hard time when they want to go out and socialize. Yeah, you'd be surprised. I hear it from a lot of men, a lot of insecure men, where, why are you going out? Who are you going to go out? Who are you going to go see? Why do you need to go do this? Why do you need to go do that? Why are you leaving me with the kiddos? I want to take care of both sides. So I wouldn't say it's so cut and dry. But from your perspective, you're saying, I wouldn't care if my wife wanted to go out. But we men— his book continues with Beau's comment from Facebook— we men get haggled or nagged about going out with our buddies, and it just gets— here's the key, Beau— and it just gets to be too much. So we just don't bother. It's not good, my man. She nagged me to the point where I just give up. I just become this slump shoulder, hang my head. Yes, dear, whatever you say, dear. You're avoiding confrontation. You have a person who's badgering you, making you feel anxious and making you feel guilty, so you just become a smaller and smaller version of yourself, so to speak, and you end up losing yourself. That's exactly what we're talking about. Shit test failed, my man, if you want to use that old vernacular. Um, the— if for those that know the concept of a shit test, excuse my language, Austin said it first. Here, I'm pointing. Austin said it first. Um, I heard somebody succinctly say, when people in your life give you shit, meaning throw negative stuff at you, to make sure that you are the shit. I always like that. So every— if you really sit and think about it, everyone in your life does it to some degree. But for whatever reason, it seems like the women in our lives are really, really good at it, to the point where when you notice it, you go, there's another one, there's another one, there's another one. Uh, your boss does the same thing, your friends do the same thing, where they give a little jab or a little something negative or a little whatever and sit back and say, let's see what this guy does with this. And in your case, Bo, it was, all right, fine, whatever, I won't go out anymore. Not to put words in your mouth, but that may be— it sounds like that's kind of how that went. Austin, unless you are frozen in real life, you are coming up as frozen on my screen. I don't know if I shocked you. Austin may be gone, he may have lost his connection, but this is hilarious. Austin's face is just— I don't know if you guys see this, he's completely frozen. So Austin, if you're still there, we can't hear you, or all we see is a frozen picture of you.. But we're about to wrap up here, guys. Oh, I lost Austin. It looks like I'm still live. So, uh, anywho, it's about time to wrap it up anyway. But thank you all so very much for joining us. I enjoy the conversation. Thank you for the comments from everyone. Thank you, Pat, from the DSO fraternity, for joining us. Thank you, Austin. And if there are no more questions, since it's just me on here— we lost Austin to the internet gods, it looks like. Anything else before I wrap it up? Going once, twice, three times. If not, thank you so much, guys. Appreciate all of you. Again, dadstartingover.com. Check out the DSO fraternity at dsofraternity.com. And, uh, oh nope, Austin's wanting to reconnect. Sorry, Austin, we're not gonna do that because I'm hanging up. All right, guys, thank you all so very much. Appreciate all of you, and you have a great weekend.