The Difficult World of Dating for Men - with @Coachdanielrobertson

But yeah, so what are some things that you have seen in all your years of working with, let's say, men in particular, um, difficulties that they're having out there in the dating market? And freshly— stick with freshly divorced guys. He's gone through the process of working through it emotionally. Let's pretend— a lot of guys don't, but let's pretend he has, and he's, he's emotionally ready, mentally ready. He's putting himself out on the market. What are some things you're hearing from guys that say, oh, this isn't good? What's so not so good about it?

Well, there's, there's such a mixture of different experiences for different people. And, and as we talked about the last time we talked, I am not a doom and gloomer. So there are challenges about dating in 2024. The apps have made things really difficult and messed things up in a lot of ways. So there are challenges and there are also legitimate complaints and also I think some illegitimate complaints that really come down to taking responsibility for our lives. But yeah, I mean, there is such a mixture. There— where to even begin? A lot of, a lot of the women on the dating market, so, are not as self-aware as they think they are. They're not as emotionally intelligent as they think they are.

Oh, so just threw down the gauntlet. Oh boy, I threw—

I'm dropping bombs for the ladies who are watching. I'm dropping bombs. So, but I want to validate the men in that experience. Yeah, you know, it's, it's really true. Women get— well, now here's the thing too, is because I know some of these women who are lacking in self-awareness, lacking in personal responsibility, and I also know many wonderful women who are very mature and emotionally intelligent and available. And I know some of these women are really having a hard time finding a man who can meet them on their level. So this is not a blanket statement about all women, but if you're looking on the dating app and you're having trouble with these women, if you're a man, then there's, there's a variety, a lack of maturity in a lot of cases. Um, you know, so I'm, I'm hoping— I'm not saying this about all women, but yeah, if you're having a frustrating experience with the women, it makes sense. It really makes sense why.

Um, yeah, yeah. I tell you what I'm hearing a lot of guys say, taking it like a really 30,000-foot level of, of their frustration, is one of, um, they don't get— the men don't get much attention. So they'll put their product out in the market, so to speak. We talked about this last time, and it's, it is very commoditized in that way with the online dating world. You know, think of the, the widget on the store shelf. So the man puts himself, the widget, on the store shelf and says, "Huh?" And people just pass him by and pass him by and pass him by. No one even picks him up to look at him. They just, it's nothing. And he gets nothing. And he's very frustrated. And I've heard from some men that this continues on literally for years with zero change on the man's part. Never once does he look at it from a very, I always use this term, pragmatic point of view. And it's very difficult to remove emotion from that. It's very easy to say, I'm a victim. All these women are horrible. They don't realize what a great thing they're passing up. As opposed to maybe the store window needs to be rearranged a little bit. Maybe some of this needs to be changed. Maybe some of that needs to be changed. Maybe you're approaching this in the wrong way. Maybe the qualities that you're putting forth aren't exactly what the market's looking for right now. So, but going back, what I see from men, number one is it's a woman's market. I don't get much attention at all out there. Period.

Yeah.

And to the point where they say, don't even bother. It's like 90 to 10 men versus women on the dating apps, yada yada, versus some men such as I believe you yourself will say, I had great luck in the online dating thing.

Not at first. Dating apps is a skill. Yes, it is. And when I first got on dating apps, super depressing because I couldn't get attention. I, you know, horrible experience, constant rejection, very depressing. But I said, okay, I've got, I've got to level up. I've got to learn how to do this if I want to do it this way, or meet women in person. Like, that's still an option.

That's still out there, folks.

Yeah, I mean, some of the best women, like, I like going to personal development events, meet the other women who are also into personal development. You're dealing with a subset. The people who are on dating apps are a subset of the general population. So what is going— what is that telling you? This isn't random. And also, the dating apps are designed to keep you on the dating app. Yeah, like, that's how they make money. So their incentive to help you find a partner— this is— the, the incentives are perverse. And so For a man to be having a hard time on dating apps is completely understandable. And if you want to learn the skill, learn the skill, and then enjoy the benefits of learning the skills.

Is there something that you can point to? You say skills plural, but is there something you can point to that was the turning point for you?

Yeah, I mean, I think on dating apps, there's so much about appearances. So learn how to dress well. Learn how to groom. I see guys who don't groom their beard, you know, guys who don't groom their beard. I'm like, why don't you groom your beard or go to a barber or learn? Take quality photos. I don't have very quality photos up, but, but, you know, you can get even professional photos taken for your dating app or get some quality photos. Definitely have relationships with other guys and hobbies. With, with other guys that are— have your own life. Don't make your whole life about finding a woman. That's gonna mess you up. That's in a lot of ways. Um, so, and then conversational skills. Really practice your conversational skills. Read— go back to 1933, read Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People. Like, it's important to be interested in the other person It's more important to do that than to be interesting yourself. So be interested, be curious, learn how to ask quality questions, ask follow-up questions, be interested in her as a person. You know, so if you learn these skills, then yeah, you can have more success on dating apps. But it is a lot about appearances on dating apps.

I mean, it's no, it's literally visually the first thing you see the little headshot as you're scrolling through. There is, um, there is very much a predominant theme out there amongst men that the, the dating market overall is so stacked against them. More specifically, that we have these predominant themes of, you know, women only go for, you know what I'm about to say, a certain upper, upper echelon of men, the tippy top of the pyramid, the hierarchy of men, so to speak. If you don't have, drum roll, 6-pack abs, certain size adult, you know, um, and a certain height, then 6-figure income, the 666 as they call it, right? Yeah, then don't even bother because women have certain standards that are— that represent this much of the population. So if you're not in that little snippet up there, don't even bother, dude. Meanwhile, we have some poor guy over here who's— I say poor some dude over here is 5'5", weighs 280 pounds, is charming as hell, and is killing it with the ladies. And I always point to that guy and go, hello? And the men say, that's an anomaly. I mean, come on, there's always an exception to the rule. This doesn't represent the rule. The rule is got to look a certain way, have— oh, money, you know, gotta have so much money. So different ways of looking at this. One is Yeah, you might as well just bow out, dude. It's, you know, you're— everyone's a loser. Oh well, you're not going to get much of anywhere that way. And the other is, um, you know, the 5'5", 280-pound guy who has a lot of women. Maybe there's something to be learned from this guy. God forbid we go down that road. Maybe he has a little certain something. Maybe there's something to the personality, gift of gab, charm, lack of anxiety, low anxiety, extroversion, all these other things that go into making a pretty attractive human being, especially an attractive dude, maybe there's something to be learned there. But even again, when you, when you present that, you get pushback from men saying, why should I bother working on those skills? The, the, the, the pool of female candidates out there is so bad that it's not even worth fighting for. So on one hand, it's, uh, we have no choice, and on the other hand, even if we had a choice, why bother? So there's a lot of men out there just painting an extremely grim picture of this whole dating scene. I think it's less of a reflection of reality and more of a reflection of their insecurities and their lack of luck in the market. And you feel bad for those guys.

You got a negative mindset, you're going to get negative results. It's like, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, Robert Greene has that book Seduction, and he talks about Casanova You know, not the most attractive guy in the world. But what did he learn? He learned— and there are multiple methods of seduction, some ethical and some unethical. And you can learn how to ethically seduce, be seductive. What's seductive? Radical honesty. Like, wow, women, when Like one of the things I'm out there, you see what you focus on, Amanda says. Yeah. If you believe that that's what all women want, 666, 6 foot, you know, all this stuff, 6-figure income. If that's what you believe, confirmation bias will kick in and you'll find evidence to support your view. But if you go at it from, hey, I believe that there are wonderful women out there, like that's my attitude. I literally say I love women. I love the feminine spirit. All women are beautiful. I say this to myself. I always say all women are beautiful. And what does that do? That because I believe that, I always find beauty in every woman I meet. And that's like, it's just a much more fun way for me to live. So, um, yeah, you can learn. Yeah, see, anyway, there's, there's some— Amanda's, Amanda's dropping some wisdom over here, guys. So like You know? Yeah, I mean, just you get to decide if you're happy with your results, then you don't have to change anything. Oh, yeah, that's what I was gonna say. Some of the things that, some of the things that come up when I'm dating is I will be radically honest. Like, some guys are kind of timid and afraid to say what they want, you know, and afraid to tell a woman, hey, I think you're beautiful, or I think whatever, like, I'd love to take you on a date. And when I talk to women that way, you know, it doesn't— sometimes they're not interested. That's fine. I might get rejected. But the fact that, number one, I'm confident enough to be honest with them and confident enough to have my desires and to express them, and that I can take rejection. And if they reject me, I say, oh, that's too bad. You look like a lovely woman. I would have loved to get to I don't know you, you know. And to be able to just be confident about yourself with honesty, um, is, is— that makes me stand out. Um, showing interest in the woman as, as a woman and not, not just, you know, trying to get physical, you know, a physical relationship only. And there are tons of guys who present one thing And maybe they're the more handsome guys or whatever, they're more attractive for some way. So they present one thing, they say, oh, I'm looking for a relationship, they get the woman into bed, and then, and then later the woman finds out that's all he was after, right? And it's such a frustrating experience for women. And you can stand out by valuing women and really just taking an interest in them as a person. And then the last thing I'll just, I'll just mention this is we can, as men, really work on building our emotional intelligence. This is something. And if you want a woman who's more emotionally intelligent, you work on building your emotional intelligence and you get access to just a great— I don't want to rank women, but it's a higher echelon. It's like, it's— you get access to women who are more emotionally intelligent and mature. And aware, and you get a higher quality experience. So these are all things that are within our control.

And there was a lot layered in there, what you said. And one of the big things that I see with a lot of men— fear of rejection. Huge, huge, huge, huge. Oh man, if men can get over that, they'll probably solve a lot of problems in their life, period. Not just with women.

Super attractive, by the way, if you can get over your fear of rejection and you're not defensive. Super attractive.

Yeah, so, you know, having lunch with a lady and she says to you, I don't— just so you know, I don't think this is going anywhere. You'd be like, all right, cool, no biggie, I got lunch, don't worry about it anyway. So did you see the game last night? You know, and continue on with your lunch. She'd be like, this is interesting, as opposed to a guy throws down his fork and gets up and says, I didn't like you anyway, you're ugly, whatever. Maybe—

oh gosh, you're going to turn around and insult a woman after that? That's just pure ego.

Exactly. That's all it is. But a lot of men have a really difficult time being rejected, which is in essence also why a lot of men, any super, super attractive woman, I know that's a subjective thing. Let's say like a model, somebody at that level, objectively like a whoa type of person will tell you they have difficulty in the dating market. And why? Because men are really, really scared to approach them. Why? Because the man knows she's probably, in his mind, she's probably going to reject me. I'm going to look at her. I mean, come on. And that woman will say, I'll tell you who has a shot, somebody who comes up and talks to me at a party. Because no one comes up to me and talks to me at a party ever. And so when some normal dude just goes, hey, who are you? What are you doing? I'm Ralph Brewer Brewer Brewer. Nice to meet you. They're just like, oh, hello. And that low anxiety is another thing. That's kind of an all-encompassing term, but that's something I see that a lot of men need to work on is their anxiety overall. Social anxiety. They don't walk into a room just to a random person and go, hey, what are you doing here? My name's Ralph Brewer Brewer Brewer. Nice to meet you. That's just really like, oof, again, fear of rejection. Because even though that's not a romantic relationship they're pursuing per se, it is— that person may go like, get away from me, you weirdo, or do I know you or something. Is that going to happen? Probably not. But in their mind, that's what they conjure up, and that's why they stay at home as opposed to going out.