2024 Wins and 2025 Game Plans - Part 2 | Ep 050

People power content creation and mortgage partners. We're closing out the first full calendar year of Real Estate Team OS by meeting and learning from your fellow viewers and listeners.

You pick up little nuggets here and there. Like why would I not want to listen to this? This is what's gotten me here.

When people are on stage at an event, they don't have the opportunity to go as deep as you're able to. With the podcast.

You've got four of them right here in one episode. Talking 2024 wins and 2025 game plans.

Some of these people that are working crazy hours, they' utilizing systems overall.

We released part one of this last week in the previous episode. Here in part two, you'll meet and learn from Jonathan Campbell from Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Jennifer Staats from Colorado Springs, Colorado. Brandon Doyle from Maple Grove, Minnesota and Kim Shield Neck from Cincinnati, Ohio.

I only have 14 agents right now, but you know what my startup costs are paid for. I'm profitable my first year again.

You can check out part one as the previous episode, but. But I'm really excited to bring to you part two of 2024 wins and 2025 game plans right now on Real Estate Team OS. No matter where your business is today or where you want to take it, you'll get there faster and more profitably with an operating system. Welcome to Team os, your guide to starting, growing and optimizing a real estate team. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. First up, we have Jonathan Campbell, CEO and owner of John Campbell Team Brokered by Real. He shares with you the main reason his agents are each averaging 45 to 50 deals per year in this market and specific things you can do to find people like this yourself. He also breaks down some specific tactics for better goal setting and more importantly, goal achievement. Here's Jonathan. Jonathan, I am really excited to have you on the show. I'm looking forward to a full length conversation as well. Congratulations on your continued success and welcome to Real Estate Team os.

Thank you, Ethan. Pleasure.

So the way we like to kick these off is just tell folks a little bit about your real estate business.

Yeah, so I'm CEO and owner of my team, the John Campbell team brokered by real. We have 23 agents currently. Average agent right now in this market is doing about 45 to 50 deals on average per year. And we've been. I've been doing real estate since 2007. It's kind of crazy to think how many years that's been.

I've talked with a lot of folks in that window and in that window, I mean, adjacent to or in the middle of like, you know, 0809, when you look back on it now, maybe what are you thankful for? What do you remember from that period or what really stuck with you? Like, what did you take from that? Starting your real estate career in that kind of a tumultuous window?

Yeah, so I was 19 years old actually when that all started. And so I was super young in the industry. And what was amazing about that is most people, it wasn't even about the market because I didn't know any different. Like I didn't know what was a good market versus what was a bad market. What I actually fought more of was like, who's this kid? Why would I want to sell a home with the kid? So to be honest, I wasn't worried about market cycles or what was happening in the market. I was more worried about like, what am I going to do to overcome my age in this market where the average agent I guess in that time was like 50, 60 years old. And I'm just this young kid showing up and a lot of times he'd be like, all right, where's the real estate agent? And I'm like, I am the real estate agent. So it was more about that. But it's funny, looking back on it, it's so interesting to see the ebbs and flows of the markets. And I lived through that. So we had a short sale company, we had REO business at the time. And in the moment you don't notice it because you're just shifting with where the clients are doing business. And that's what I learned really quick, is that you need to shift in any market, including today's market, to where the clients are buying and selling homes, not just get stuck where you might be stuck at.

So, yeah, okay, a lot of really, really good stuff in there and I don't want Anyone to miss 45 to 50 units per agent in this market. But that's going to be the topic for a much longer conversation that we have soon. So with regard to real estate, Timos, do you watch or listen or both?

Both, yeah. I love getting nuggets from them.

Yeah, yeah. Is it just dependent on like where you are and what you're doing?

While I'm driving, if I have a drive that's longer than 15 minutes, I will 100% put on a podcast and depending on my mood, it's typically business related. So I will be always listening to a podcast during that time. If it's under 15 minutes, I try to just jam out on something that pumps me up and gets me in the mood about something. But if it's longer than 15 minutes, I love jamming up to a podcast and listening to things. And so many people are like, you're at the top of the game. You're doing these different things. Your agent production is so high. Why are you listening to this stuff? And it's like, well, you pick out little nuggets here and there. Like, why would I not want to listen to these things? Like, this is what's gotten me here. And I'm going to continue to do that in order to proceed.

One of the things that's been an absolute joy for me now, just over a year into hosting these conversations and producing this show, is that everyone on has been successful in their own way, and. And everyone is doing it a little bit differently. So although I've never been in your seat, I can absolutely recognize that there's something to learn from everyone around us. It's certainly something that's been helpful to me in my career. When you think back to some of the episodes you've seen and heard, do any themes or topics really stand out to you as especially helpful? Or maybe even people or episodes?

Yeah. So I can't quote people in episodes only because I can remember faces. I remember the conversation. I am the worst at names. I'm just. I just am. And so I don't want to. I don't want to embarrass myself or butcher somebody's name on that. But I've seen team leaders, I've seen other people. And what really sticks out to me is they always talk about their people for the most part. And I'm a strong, strong believer that it's your people that will always carry you. And I just saw a quote by Andrew Carnegie, and I'll probably butcher this one as well. But it was something along the lines that if you take away my factories and you keep my people, my people will create new factories and something better. If you take away my people and leave my factories, my factories are just going to turn into, like, just overgrowth. And that's how I look at things. Like, give me my people in any of these markets and we'll shift with it. And a lot of times when I listen to the OS podcast, I hear not only talk about people, but they talk about their systems and all their processes behind that. And that's what a lot of people don't understand is a lot of success comes from just the blend of the systems and the people that are running it behind the scenes.

Two layered question here. What are some of the things that you look for in people and how do you kind of suss that out in a kind of, I guess, generally speaking, like an interview type situation? Or is it just a feel? Like you get a feel for a person or is it that it's by referral, we have to go crazy deep there. But then also, I assume you're better at that today than you were, you know, five or 10 years ago. I mean, because certainly repetition from someone who's looking to learn and grow, we get better at anything that we do multiple times. But how have you gotten better at that and what are you looking for in people? Like, how do you. How do you determine that this person could be really successful here?

Yeah, so. So two things I look for is really likability. And so that's the first thing. And the second thing is coachability. So I'll run you through a very simple scenario. I do recruiting and the interview process. So the first thing I do is I just say, hey, tell me about yourself. If they cannot, like brag about themselves and talk about themselves for a little bit, there's an issue there because I don't know how they're going to interact with my clientele. I have to look at myself as them interacting with a client. If they can't have a small talk conversation with somebody, they're going to run into issues. The second thing that I do is I immediately put them into a role play. So I say, all right, hey, what we're going to do is we're going to jump into a role play. And what we're going to do is we're going to act like you are answering the phone from my company and you just need to set an appointment with that home buyer that's on the other side. All right, you ready to make a call? Great. Ring, ring, ring. And you start the role play right away. The big thing about that is most people don't do a role play in the middle of an interview. They get confused by it. And so what happens is you watch them. One you're looking for, hey, do they know anything about my company? Like, if they at least went on my website and know what my name is and know some of the things, because we have like our guaranteed sale program, our immediate buyout offer, we have some unique selling propositions. And it's like, did they actually use some of that in their. In their dialogue? And did they do a little bit of research that tells me that they're driven, that they're going to look for things. And then the second thing I want to do is when they're done with that role play, I want them to break it down. So I say, all right, how did you do? And I want to hear their feedback. I want to know what they've said, how they're going to critique themselves. And then what I do is I give them one small critique and I tell them to change this thing in their script. And then what I do is I say, let's role play again. And then all I'm doing on that second time is I want to hear that they actually made that switch that I told them to do. I could care less how they did the rest of the interview, the rest of that role play. All I wanted to hear is that they made that switch. If they did, I know I have something that I can really work with from an agent standpoint. If they didn't, I know this is going to bite me. Whether it's tomorrow or whether it's six months down the road, something is going to happen and I'm going to go back to that moment being like, nope, they weren't coachable.

Super good advice. When you look forward to the year ahead, what are you excited about for 2025 or what are you working on? Or when you get to this time next year, what are you going to say? I'm really glad we finally implemented that thing. What's top of mind right now as we're heading into the next year?

This Friday, I'm actually meeting with my leadership team to go over all of our 2025 goals. That's what I love. I love sitting down. I love planning it, but. But then I love the execution of it. I love how we break down our goals into milestones, into literally biweekly milestones that I know that we are going to hit our goal by the end of the year based on everything that we just set up for here. So, yeah. So I'm continuing to push our cash offer platform in order to help clients navigate a cash offer system right now. And then I'm really just interested in watching the interest rates hopefully, hopefully come back down so we can have some normal conversations with some home buyers and home sellers.

Yeah, I feel like we got teased here in Q4 a little bit. We did. Maybe got like a minor sucker punch or something relative to what folks are looking for and hoping for. I really appreciate kind of the granularity of that goal setting process. Talk about how important that is. And by That, I mean, I think most people would be clever enough to at least do an annual goal and treat it quarterly and, and then maybe divide it by three so that we know whether or not we're pacing to our quarterly goal. But the granularity of your goal setting, give me a couple thoughts on that.

Yeah, you have to get very granular with your goal setting. So to us, anybody can set a goal. Anybody can set a goal. You see it around New Year's Eve or New Year's Eve and your resolutions and all that. And too many people, they just set a goal, but they don't execute on it. And, and so to us, execution is crucial for everything. So how we break it down is we'll set a broad goal on usually number of transactions and volume count. And then what we'll do is we'll break it down, but it's like, all right, hey, what are the people changes that you need to make in order to make that happen? What are some of the marketing changes that you need to make in order to make that happen? What's some of the sales tactics that you need to change in order to make that happen? Do the conversations change? Do something else change? And then what are the operations behind that? The systems that are in place? I can tell you, and you know, this is lead sources change all of the time. One lead source that was working last year might not work next year. It also might have disappeared because you might not work, that operations are constantly changing because of the way the market is. So you have to look all of that. But then you take your broad goal, then you break it down in all those different sectors of what helps, and then, yes, then you end up with your quarterly goal. So we're gonna have our Q1 goal and then, yes, we break that down into milestones where it's actually attainable and actually looks like you're accomplishing something broad goal. But you do have to get granular on that by breaking it down into bite sized pieces where you can actually report in every other week and be like, all right, hey, am I really on track for my goal? Is this really my top priority? If it's not your top priority, why or why am I not treating this as my top priority? And it really gets you back into like, hey, this really is my top priority. Let's make sure we actually take care of this.

You know, it's one thing to set the target, it's another thing to kind of break it down so that we can keep track of pacing against it. But the thing that I really appreciated about what you shared there is what else needs to happen behind the scenes, behind the person in support of the person in order to do it. Because, you know, we can spin our wheels and try to hit, you know, numbers on a trending basis and we can wonder why and think that it's exclusively and this is a big deal. More dials, you know, so to say that is a big deal. But it's, it's, you know, that's not going to do it if the system isn't there to support the types of goals we're setting. So this is awesome. I wish you continued success in the year ahead. I really appreciate you making Team Os part of how you continue to learn and grow and I look forward to another conversation with you soon.

Thank you, Ethan. Pleasure.

Goal setting should be granular and goal achievement is about much more than simply putting numbers up on the board and sending people off to chase them. Next up, you'll meet and learn from Jennifer Stats, owner of Stats Solutions and director of operations for Easy Home Search and Digital Maverick. She shares with you two types of agents and teams who should be focused a lot more on operations and why your operations solution isn't always about adding another role or another person. She also breaks down specific things that she's planning for her business in the year ahead. Here's Jennifer. Jennifer, I'm so excited to have you on. Welcome to Real Estate Team os.

Thanks for having me on. I'm really excited to be here.

Cool. Well, we're starting these conversations with your path into and through the real estate business. Give us a few minutes on that. However you prefer to structure that.

Yeah, I have been in the real estate space for about 15 years now. A lot of that have involved follow up boss. I am the owner and founder of Stat Solutions, which runs the operations of real estate businesses nationwide. Also the director of operations of Easy Home Search and Digital Maverick. And a lot of that has to do with just operating real estate teams and which is one of the reasons why I listen to this podcast and been heavily involved in the follow up boss Success community.

Why real estate? Like what was going on for you at the time where real estate made sense and then bridge us into like when did you know operations was your thing?

Yeah, so I honestly don't know the exact point. I was 20 years old when I decided to get my real estate license. I don't know what made me do that. Honestly, it's probably one of those things where I'm like, oh, I'm watching HGTV and it sounded like a good idea, but I actually decided to get my license and at the same time just wanted to jump wholeheartedly into it. So I went and got an unpaid internship, started there, got my license, became an assistant. And then from there I had the opportunity to run an office. Actually not a real estate office. It was a flooring store. It was to kind of help me bridge that gap in the sales and decided operations was like my thing. I had that entire office turned around within a couple of months, had them really streamlined. And then from there I started running real estate offices as well as selling and really decided that operations was my passion.

What are the signs of a real estate operation that they really need to start taking operations more seriously and then make the decision as to are we going to outsource this or are we going to figure out, do we have someone in house? Like, what are the signs that the operation needs attention?

I tend to find that we, you know, if I'm looking at my client base and I almost have like two different buckets of people that then they come to me and they're like, wow, Jennifer, I manifested you. I knew I needed something like this, but I didn't know it existed. One is probably an agent or a team that is very, very successful, but they are just burnt out. Like, they are just feel like they're working 80, 90 hours a week. They're selling a lot of real estate, they're doing really well. They probably don't have. They don't have a lot of systems, or maybe they just don't like dealing with systems themselves. That's one kind of case where I can come in and I can either help them get to the next level or just get them more time back. Right? Because there's also a different, you know, a different way of that where they just aren't able to see their family because they thought this was the only way. They're just completely burnt out. The other case is probably maybe an individual agent or maybe it's an agent with. Maybe they just started their team and they're like, wow, I don't even know where to start. Like, I'm just, you know, they're. They're in there, they're watching tutorials, they're doing all these things that would be the other side of it where it's someone that really doesn't know what to do. They know they need help. Again, maybe operations isn't their thing, or maybe operations is their thing. They really enjoy it, but they also need to be in production. So Sometimes I find if you outsource that or you give that to someone else, it's gonna move a little quicker. Because being owners of businesses, we tend to dwell on specific subjects and spend more time on it than if you were to give it to someone else.

For that super productive agent. What are they maybe blind to with regard to? Oh, I just thought I had to do this because I know someone's watching or listening and they, they're like, oh, operations. Yeah, I hear about operations. I've maybe seen an operations episode. But like, they don't realize what it could mean for them. Day to day, week to week, month. I don't have to think about this again. Once I get the right person, I get them trained properly.

Yeah. And it doesn't even always have to be a person. Right, Right. Sometimes I look at it as like some of these people that are working crazy hours, they're not utilizing systems overall. They're not, you know, they're not delegating to a person. They're not creating a system around it. They're just doing the things. They've got these emotions and they're selling all the real estate and they're not taking a second to create a replicatable system that they can do it over and over again, which is going to stop their business growth at some point. Because at some point there are not enough hours in the day for you to be doing these 1,000 things that an agent has to do. So, you know, they just have to be. I tend to find that a lot of times it's a delegation thing. They're not willing to let someone else do do it because they're really great at that. My feedback just even within STATS is I found that even though I thought I was very good at certain things, I bring people onto my team that I end up finding are way better at those things than I ever even was. And I'm up leveling my business, our clients, businesses and stuff like that.

Cool. I'm not trying to sell your service, but I imagine that the benefit of you having a team of folks that are doing some of this work for multiple people in different markets is probably highly advantageous. Like just a broader perspective and like a deeper expertise and probably an expertise built more quickly.

Yeah. I usually like to say we are much stronger as a team than individually because, you know, each of our clients are with different brands, they're in different areas, they have different coaches, they have different ideas. We all have different ideas within. So a lot of times, like, if I'm messing with things a little longer than I think I probably should. I just ping the group and there's almost always someone in the team that can do it in like five seconds, which is amazing but also frustrating at the same point. So there is a lot of benefit with the, you know, the collective knowledge of everyone together.

That kind of drove me into the show part of the conversation because, you know, I want to bring to anyone who wants to see or hear, meet and learn from people. People from across the country and all different brands doing business in all kinds of different ways. So for you, how did you become aware of real estate Team os and do you watch or listen or both?

Yeah, I do a mixture of everything. So I think I became aware when you first launched. Obviously I'm really involved in follow up boss, so I like knew that it was coming. So I think it was like fubcon last year. I still have my Team OS T shirt and so I.

That's a limited run. I feel like we need to re rack that or something.

Yes, it's definitely limited. So I listen to the podcast. I generally. I don't really like TV and stuff, so I generally. I listen to it on Apple podcasts, but I do watch some of the reels that you post and share too. So some of us, I'll get little tidbits and they'll be like, oh, that's something I need to go listen to. Let me go bring it up on my iPhone and listen to it next time I'm in the car.

When you look back at that first year of listening, any themes or topics that have been especially helpful for you, either reinforcing something that you thought was true and now you've heard it from three or four people, you're like, yeah, this is definitely a thing or something. Something you got turned onto that you were unaware of. And it could be like a theme or a topic or even a guest or an episode.

I think what I love most about the podcast is that there's all different types of people and business owners and operators and people on teams that I really enjoy listening to because I think more often than not, when we're in the real estate space, we're generally listening to maybe just the CEO, or we're just listening to people that sell bajillions of dollars of real estate. Right. And we're only getting that one take. And I think I was actually listening to one of your most recent episodes with Kyle Whissel, and there was so many different takeaways, but he kind of said the same thing. Like, you're listening to all these people talking on stage or podcasts, whatever, and they're telling you, I sell a billion dollars of real estate a year, but they're not telling you how much money they're actually making. And I think that's kind of consistent throughout. A lot of the different people that have been on the podcast is they're telling you how they do it. That's not necessarily the right, like, the only way. It's not necessarily the right way. But I love listening to how everyone's doing things a little bit different and they're successful in their own respective market.

So for folks watching and listening, Jennifer was referring to the first episode in our Inside Whissel Realty series. We're bringing nine different people from one team. It's only the second time we've done the inside the team model, but it was built around the same idea, which is getting deeper into the organization to understand how things actually work, really work from different seats inside the same organization. As you're looking forward to 2025 and as I'm looking forward to it from my own seat, you know, I'm asking in part so that folks can understand how, you know, fellow viewers and listeners are thinking about the year ahead and what they're planning on and what they're thinking about. But I'm also asking in part because, you know, I'm trying to plan topics and themes and things. What are you most excited about in the year ahead? Or what are you thinking about or working on? Or when you look back one year from, you can say, gosh, I'm really glad I committed to that and got that thing done. Like, what do you. What's ahead for you in 2025 in the multiple seats that you are in?

I know it's crazy because it's like, okay, which. Which hat am I wearing? So right now we're kind of going into business planning mode with not only our clients. Right. But we also talk about it within. Within stats. Right. So there's a lot, you know, with. With the way the real estate market has been, we're talking a lot about people. Do we have the right people in the right seats? Do we want to bring people on in 2025? Do we need to automate things within stats? A lot of just my stuff and things I've got planned are all around the tech that we use internally, the people that we have. Obviously, I rely on people power quite a bit and a travel and which conferences we're going to and what our goals are around where we're going to be and what groups we're going to be in and where we're going to put our effort there. So there's been a lot of talk over the next couple months about business planning and what we're doing just to.

That multiple seats thing. I know, you know, even a real estate team leader might be involved in things that are team adjacent and they're doing lots of different stuff. And like you as a wife and a mom, running your own business and, you know, leading that team, but also being part of two other organizations, like when you look at a week, like, how do you balance that? I mean, it just seems. It seems like a lot of different things. So it takes something special. I think there are a lot of people who are operating right now and you're talking about some of them earlier, like, yeah, you're selling, by the way, I feel like this could be a T shirt to selling all the real estate. So they're like selling all the real estate, but they're just barely hanging on. And you obviously, you know, with the variety of stakeholders and the variety of people relying on you, you can't do it that way. So, like, I'd love for you to share some advice on that.

A lot of my stuff and I'm going to use time blocking and whatever and everyone says time blocking and then a lot of us don't actually use it. Right. When I first started my whole business endeavor, I had a one year old and I am the first person that would instantly just want to work 80 hours a week. But what I my why and the whole reason why I started all this is I really wanted to be there for my kids. So I built my business around being available for my children. So I do a lot of time blocking. I have an amazing team, so I kind of know I can only do as much as I can do because I have a really strong team backing me up that also knows that it's very important for me that I'm here for my kids. And, you know, I've got lots of animals. If you follow me on Instagram and stuff like that, you get to see my crazy life. So I can only do it because I really set really strong boundaries with everyone, whether it's clients or my team members. I hold to that schedule as much as I possibly can. And then I also have a lot of support. My husband backs me up. I have a mom that supports me. My kids are all about all my real estate endeavors. They've gone to a couple conferences with me. So I think it's really just about balancing, setting my own boundaries, then also having just a lot of support backing me up. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to do everything I do. Because I put that's a very common question I get asked everywhere is like.

What does your day look like?

Like, how do you possibly do all of these things? And it's truly just my entire support system.

Cool. I love it. For folks watching and listening, of course you can follow realestate Team OS on Instagram down below as Jennifer does. She referred to it earlier in the conversation. You can also follow her on Instagram that's linked down below. Whether you're watching on YouTube, listening to Apple podcasts or Spotify, or you're watching or listening on the website@realestateteamos.com there are links to all the stuff we're talking about in all these episodes right down below. Jennifer, I appreciate you making this conversation part of this day. I appreciate you and I look forward to seeing again in person sometime soon.

Thanks for having me. See you soon.

If you haven't thanked the people in your support network lately, today is a great day to do that. Next up, we've got Brandon Doyle, a Realtor with Doyle real estate team with ReMax results in Maple Grove, Minnesota. He shares with the process of building up a team and the process of letting it go. He also talks content creation as the author of four books and the creator of a YouTube channel on smart home technology with well over a million views. Brandon, I so appreciate you joining me for this special end of year episode. I'm looking forward to where we're going. We've met in person a handful of times. It's great to reconnect with you virtually here.

Really excited to be on the show. Obviously a big fan of Binge the whole series. Watched your other podcasts as well. And so you're, you're very inspirational. It's an honor to be a guest.

Appreciate that. It's an honor to, you know, produce work that people engage, which I know, you know, as an author of multiple books and, you know, creator of content that's being watched hundreds of thousands of times. So before we get into how you found the show, I'd love for you to share with folks a little bit about your real estate background.

Yeah. So I've been practicing real estate for coming up on 13 years now. I'm on a father son team based out of Maple Grove, Minnesota, and we really focus on new construction. So it's kind of our specialty.

Cool. And you had Started building the team up at some point.

Yeah. So we used to buy leads and we had grown our team. We had five other agents working with us in addition to our full time assistant. But around 2019, just looking at the metrics, we kind of decided that we wanted to focus on our own production. And so we adjusted some splits, we stopped buying leads and then, and let nature take its course. And so now we're back to the two of us. And you know, looking back, I could say it was a great decision or a horrible one, but for me it worked out well.

So that's it. I mean, that's what this whole thing is about. It's one of the themes I love about the show and it's one of the things I love about the industry, which is that there is no one right way to do any of this. And you get to decide what you want to do and what's right for you and your lifestyle and your family and your income. And all these different, you know, all these factors weigh in. Obviously, I've hosted a ton of like mega team leaders and people have built like these massive organizations on the show, but I have a lot of folks like you who enjoy watching or listening who, like, that's not the path for them, but they're still getting something out of it. Share just as much as you would like about how that decision went, like, how did that conversation go with you and your father? Like, like, because obviously building a, you know, 20 person organization isn't for everyone, much less a 200 person organization. Like, what factors weighed in for you? And like, give some, maybe counsel or kinship with folks who opted not to go keep scaling an organization instead. Like, let's just run a great business that we love.

Yeah, definitely. So we've never aspired to be the number one or the biggest team by any means. We always were just about synergy and, you know, if it works for you, it works for us. We can, we can help each other out and collaborate. So really it was the cost of leads that was going up and then the. You get motivating people really, like at the end of the day, like, I can give them all the resources in the world, but they're not an employee, so I can't force them to do anything. And you know, for that reason it was, it was tough. So mostly financial, it was allocation of time. And I just found that for me, I enjoyed working with the customers directly and building my business. And I found that I was spending more time working with agents that weren't always holding up their end of the bargain. And that did lead to some frustrations. And so, you know, it was mostly a financial decision.

Yeah, it's not uncommon. Really appreciate you sharing that. So how did you find the show? And do you watch or listen or both?

Yeah, so I found the show because of course, I've watched your other podcasts as well. And then when this rolled out, I was very confused of what it was. Is this like a new CRM? Is this a new dashboard? Is this operating system? But I was really pleased to find out that it was going behind the scenes to interview these top team leaders and people within their organization, which is really cool because it's access that you don't always get. And when people are on stage at an event, they don't have the opportunity. Opportunity to go as deep as you're able to with the podcast. So I've really enjoyed that level of transparency. So cool.

I appreciate that. Nod. I was talking with Chris Vandervock, the COO at Whissel Realty Group, who we ended up doing an inside the Team series with. We also went inside the Lawton team. You know, the more I was talking with him and he was talking about some of his team members, that was the spark. That was almost a year ago as we record this right now, to say let's go beyond the team leader who founded this company, you know, 11 years ago and built it to this massive organization because at some point they properly should be out of touch with a lot of the things that people want to know about. It's their next layer of leadership or, you know, even a mid layer that's going to know that stuff. So appreciate that Nod to going beyond the team leader or the operator. It's something we'll continue to do and it's super fun for me. I just like mixing up the formats like we're doing right now. So when you reflect back on all the episodes you've seen or heard, like, are there themes that stand out to you or even particular episodes or guests or topics? Like, when you think about how it's been useful to you, what are a couple things that stand out?

Yeah, really it's about the level of depth in like sharing real numbers. And so I think on stage a lot of times you'll hear people just talk about vanity metrics and themselves. Whereas with your podcast, they're giving like real examples, they're using real numbers. So I enjoy stuff about lead sources, splits, customer experience, journey, how to scale. I've actually implemented some practices from Grant Wise about Like reinvesting in your marketing. I enjoyed the episodes where we talked about Community with Lori Finkel Finkelstein reader. Those are great. There's just so many episodes I could, I can't narrow it down to one or two, but each one I think I get like just a little nugget where I catch myself. I'll be driving and, or doing something else and I'll hear something and I'm like, wait, wait, go back, go back and re listen to it again at a normal speed because normally I have it at like 2x and I'll be like, oh, that's interesting. And you're really boiling down like 10 years worth of experience and you can just pull that one nugget and for free. So that's pretty neat.

Where else have you gone either recently or over the years? Like where do you go to stay in touch and to be inspired and to get new ideas and to get some of those nuggets where like as you said, someone spent years struggling with something, they finally cracked the nut and now they're sharing it with you at no cost.

Yeah, so a lot of YouTube style podcasts, like real estate insiders, industry relations, I like that kind of stuff. And for me, I enjoy being able to comment and engage as well because if I listen to it on like Apple, there's no, there's no way to comment. And, and so it's kind of fun for me to be able to do that. And again, yeah, it's free, it's just out there. It's just incredible. All the information in the world is free for the taking. I don't have to pay for coaching, I don't have to. And everyone's very receptive too. If you reach out and say, hey, I heard this specific thing on this, can you like maybe tell me a little bit more? They've always been very open to that, so that's cool too.

Yeah, I love that ad. And I would just extend anyone watching or listening to this episode as on this side of the microphone. I don't know if you've experienced similar, but you know, as much content as you put out there, you can see, you know, the streams and downloads and stuff. It's shocking. As you watch that stuff, rack up how few people actually directly engage in it. The amount of direct feedback you get is so limited compared to the number of episodes that have been listened to. That like, same thing. My email address is just ethanolowupboss.com if you're watching or listening at this point, I'd be Happy to hear from you. And as many times as I've done that as both a guest and a host on shows, it's still shocking how many people actually take advantage of it.

It's really fun when they do, though. They're like, oh, you actually, you actually read the book or you actually watched that show. Cool. Like, I just did that in my spare time. That's fun. I'm glad you got something out of it. And I think, you know, for everyone that's out there, that's an active, engaged person, there's a whole slew that are just silent observers and they could become customers in the future as well. So I'm a big advocate for content creation and just sharing all your knowledge without having it behind a paywall or trying to charge people. I think that's just open community of sharing and is great.

Yeah, totally agree. So that's what we're trying to do here around the team model and team building in particular. Brandon, as you look forward, is obviously an end of year episode. As you look forward to 2025 life, what's ahead for you, like personally or professionally? And I say personally only because you sounds like you've written your books in your spare time, which is somewhere at the borderline between, you know, your professional business and your, your own personal life. So, like, what's ahead for you in 2025 is your. Is your kind of developing plans and thinking about the future.

Yeah, definitely. So I'm thinking about the next 10 years, actually. So come March, I'll turn 40 and I've reflected a little bit on my 30s and how incredible that's been and so thinking about where I want to go from there. But as a author and practicing real estate agent, I'm really big on reflecting backwards, like where we've been, what worked, what didn't, where did our customers come from, how did we meet them, how do I do more of that? And so when I do my business planning, it's all around action steps that I can take as I have a plan going into it and not just. Not just waiting. And so we'll probably focus more on content creation just because I know that's a lever that works well for me, building relationships. Of course, I'm a big on doing lunch, so I have the domain lunchwithbrandon.com which is pretty cheesy, but like, it works. So, yeah, there's that. And then on the personal side, again, just more about growth. And for a while I was doing some consulting and I worked for a tech company and in the real estate space, which I really enjoyed. And so as much as I love real estate sales, I am actively looking for opportunities to be an evangelist in, in the tech space. So we'll see what opportunities come in 2025.

If anyone just missed what he said, he'd be open to talking to somebody about evangelizing tech in the real estate space in particular. I just, we'd be remiss if I didn't get this in the recording that the content you're creating around smart homes is incredible. It's been consumed hundreds of thousands of times. I love your personal passion for it and your willingness to turn that into content. I'm sure it's good for, you know, this type of opportunity, getting interesting conversations with people and companies that you wouldn't have been in conversation with otherwise. And I'm sure it also helps your real estate business at some level.

Yeah, it's real estate adjacent and so it gives me an excuse to talk about something related to the home and really look at it from a real estate perspective. Like what's the return on investment? Why would you want to buy this? Is this worth it? That type of conversation. And then you can take all this stuff that we create and create micro content that you can share in the different platforms. And it's all about engagement. Right. So getting your name out there, talking about something you're passionate about, finding people that have similar interests. And so like my clientele for real estate tends to be more nerdy people like myself because they appreciate that and we get along well. And so I like to attract people that are like me. And with all this, this content that's out there, they're kind of pre sold. Like when we meet, it's like we're already friends. It's kind of a weird experience that I'm sure you had in the past.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean when I was doing a lot of video email and video messaging and that was like my job, but it was also like the way I was practicing the idea of being in this. Just another encouragement for people. We don't talk about video that often on this show, but when it comes up, it's this dynamic of people feel like they know you before they ever meet you. It's a little bit weird for you to be greeted so warmly, but for them, they're just like psyched. Like here's this person who I know had this like parasocial one way virtual relationship with talking about things I care about and now they're right here in front of me. So it's just such a winning play in terms of building rapport really quickly.

Yeah, I think it was very eye opening for my wife when she came with to a real estate conference and we went to a networking thing and people from all over the country were coming up and giving me hugs and she's like, how do you, how do you know these people? I'm like, oh yeah, we talk all the time online, you know.

Yeah, it's really great how that works. Well, Brandon, it's been a while since I've seen you in person. I hope that happens in 2025. I appreciate you making time for this and I appreciate you making real estate team Os part of, you know, what you're doing as you're driving around and getting stuff done all week.

I appreciate it. Yeah, keep up the good work. I love the content, so keep going.

Brandon was kind enough to mention that I hosted two other shows. One is the Customer Experience podcast I host hosted more than 270 episodes of that one. And Chief Evangelist, which I hosted nearly 50 episodes of. Those are linked right down below, as are so many things that all these guests are talking about in these conversations. Closing out part two of two of 2024 wins and 2025 game plans is someone who's been engaged with real estate team os. In my inbox since day one, we've got Kim Robert, Shield neck broker, owner of Transaction alliance based in Cincinnati, Ohio. He shares with you the benefits of getting into real estate while owning a mortgage company, why he sold his real estate franchise and went independent and his thoughts on the future of real estate teams. Here's Kim. Kim, I'm so excited to have you in an episode because you were so kind from the very beginning of the show in reaching out and giving me thoughts and feedback. And I'm just pleased to have you on an episode now.

Well, I watch all your episodes and I'm, I'm honored to be here.

Tell us a little bit about your path into and through the real estate industry.

Well, I started in the mortgage business actually in the mid-90s and I worked at that and kind of learned that piece and then I opened up my own mortgage company and that went really good until 208. Yeah, and then that was quite the disaster. But in the meantime I bought a ReMax franchise to support the mortgage company. Really started liking the real estate side actually more. And after we came through the crash on the other side, I just started selling real estate and got my broker's license and continued the REMAX office.

How advantageous was it for you, you know, as you started, you know, focusing very specifically on real estate and doing a lot more deals yourself, you know, you have other agents on the other side. How advantageous was it for you to understand mortgage in an intimate way?

I was huge. It was huge. Because, you know, in the real estate business, you're guiding your clients through the process and getting them to understand more, you know, how the basics of mortgages work, what product to go on. Being able to call the loan officer, knowing if he's fibbing me, and I've caught him in that too. It's helped me a great deal and I, I think it's helped the clientele as well.

Yeah, absolutely. I even think about something as simple as your ability above and beyond what the average agent would be able to do in terms of just translating the language. Right. Like mortgage has its own language. And so, you know, an agent might be able to say the right words, but they don't necessarily understand them in a way that they can explain it meaningfully to a client.

Yeah. And finding the right loan officer is critical to your business. If you, if you don't have someone that's going to take a complete application, run it through desktop underwriting, get the right decisions, you're going to have a problem. Because I always tell the loan officers I'm working with, hey, if this dog's not going to hunt, don't worry about it. Just tell me, we'll get them ready to go and we'll get them back to you. But so many of them just send their, their mobile app and they give a pre approval letter that's worthless. And so you really have to dig down because, you know, if you're the listing agent and you get a contract and a pre approval letter, you better be calling that loan officer and finding out if it's the real deal and.

To be able to know the difference.

Correct.

Yeah. Tell, tell me about your real estate business as it is today. Like, you know, as we're coming to the end of 2024, looking forward to 2023, like, what's the status of it today?

Well, you know, I sold my REMAX office after about 18 years. I opened an independent, loved Re Max. They're all good. But what I kind of realized is that the only people that care about a real estate brand is realtors. The public doesn't care anymore. Right. So, you know, I looked at the landscape and went, you know, I think there's an opportunity to be independent here and be able to, to give my agents the maximum amount of commission and still make a little bit of a.

Profit with regard to the show. Do you watch or do you listen or both?

Both. It just depends on where I'm at, but typically I watch them. You just happen you just had your last episode with the Weitzel Group, I think. Oh, whistle, whistle. I apologize. Yeah, very insightful guy. You know, he asked. The questions he asks were real relevant because, you know, so many of these teams have a ton of people but they're not making any money or very little. And he kind of, you know, spelled that out. But, you know, most. You already knew that. Pretty much I did, but it's nice to hear someone verify what I'm thinking.

That's a whole series, by the way. Got nine of those episodes. So we'll be rolling out and this will be right on its heels in terms of releasing. So you and I connected initially by email, then on a zoom call, just connecting over the work that I had been doing on the show. And it feels like from the earliest days and the show just turned a year old in the first year of those episodes. What stands out to you in terms of themes or topics or even episodes or guests that kind of served you in the moment that you were in where you're like, yeah, this is helpful to me.

Well, I think the last one I spoke of was really helpful. They've all been helpful. There's some that are a little bit more ego based than I would like. But you know, I think your interviewing questions are great and really it brought out the topics that you need to know if you're going to run a team or a brokerage. And so there's been value in every single one of them, in my opinion. And I keep watching them a few and I can't name them now I've watched a couple times because some of these team leaders and brokers that you've had on and agents, you know, they've been around the block, they know their stuff and you learn something from all of them and it's, you know, it's. It's really the best show in, in real than real estate business in my opinion, because nobody's been tapping into what you tap into.

I really appreciate the positive feedback on the show. Is there any place else you go with regard to learning about teams specifically or teams and brokerages in general? You know, is there anything you're. Anything else that you're tapped into today?

Well, I mean, I watch Tom Ferry stuff, Brian Buffini's. Both of those guys are really good There's a bunch of, you know, and I usually get my content from YouTube, believe it or not. And so, you know, I watched, I probably watch or listen to a podcast every day, Altos Research. I listen to those podcasts and subscribe to their stuff. And it just good stuff. You know, you learn something every day and you know, as you and I have kind of went back and forth on the economy just in emails, you know, there's shifts all the time and you know, we're in a, we're in a shift right now and you know, you just have to know how to navigate those waters and you learn from those people how to, how to strategically think to prepare yourself for that market. That's coming up.

By the way, I have really enjoyed our emails on that topic. Both Mike Simonson of Altos Research and Tom Ferry have been on the show. I've not yet had Brian Buffini, but that'd be, that'd be a really interesting one too. And I would ask him something that I want to ask you right now, which is, you know, thoughts on the team model in general. I mean, you've been in the business for a while. You've seen it from a couple different perspectives. In a franchise independent agent, you know, leading a brokerage. What do you think about the team model? Like where is it going? Detail, you think?

Well, what I think is that it's changing like everything else. And I think, you know, I think you can make a team whatever you want. But I think what's happening now that I'm seeing a little bit of is that, you know, if you're the team leader and I'm an agent, I might just flip you a deal, have a contract between us and say, hey, you know what, we'll, let's do this split on this deal or go to another agent if it's, you know. So I see, I see it kind of expanding in different ways and not having such a small ecosystem of a team, but you could make a team member. It's kind of like those one time showings that we have now for the exclusive buyer agencies. You're going to show one house for me and you might pull somebody on your team for one transaction or you might have them for two or three. But I think, you know, when you look at the team model that started out really good for like Zillow leads, I think that's becoming a harder play because of the price point and I think it's potentially reducing your profitability. And I also think, you know, if on the buy side if, you know, if the average commission's 5% lower because of this new agency rule, this new NAR ruling, that's going to kind of throw their models off a little bit, they're going to have to recalibrate because 5% off on their commission, that's going to. The team leader is a big deal when you've got a big team. And I think there's a lot of people thinking about that now.

You'll really enjoy the second episode in the Inside Whistle Realty series because Chris Vandervock, their coo, talks very much about trends he's observed in margin compression, which is essentially what you were just talking about. And, and you're right. I mean, there's, there's a lot of flexibility and room to move and, and I don't think it will ever land in a particular place. And by that I just mean like what a team is and what it isn't. And really the puzzle pieces are, you know, from an agent seat and a team leader or broker seat, who pays for what, what are they paying for it, how is it all managed, and how can we continue growing our business businesses together? The most effective teams that I've talked with are figuring out a way to do it in these environments in a way that's equitable for everyone. That keeps someone even because there's always a race to the bottom in every single industry. And there's someone always willing to cut an agent an air quote, better deal. But what looks better on the top line doesn't necessarily net out as the best deal on the bottom line. And in some cases an age agent is better inside a team.

Yeah. When I started the mortgage business hiring loan officers, I think the mistake I made was hiring too many of them because what I would do, even back in the day, I just put my headset on, take the app online, pull credit, decision it, and say, meet me tomorrow at 3 with W2s, you know, tax returns, whatever they needed. And hiring more loan officers actually reduced my profitability. And I think that may be the same with teams a little bit. You know, I think if you're lean and mean and you have someone that you can count on to take that lead and get it to the closing table, that's critical. And that may just be one or two people and you might. Your profits may go up because of that.

Yeah, I've heard the most profitable model, I think, is from a Tom Ferry episode or presentation or something. The single most profitable model bottle is a super productive real estate agent with one or two or three W2 employees around them. The next one in more of a traditional team and you could call that a team, but in the more traditional team format, the next version is what's popularly referred to as a seal team, which is what you're talking about. You know, it's 8 to 10 super productive agents with just enough staff behind them to take, you know, the kind of the less dollar productive activity off the plate. And for the owner of that team, who is also still in sales, production herself or himself, that becomes the most profitable model for the owner of the team because it still has a family feel too, can be super, super engaging for agents. So this has been super fun. I would love to know, before we call it a conversation, what's ahead for you in 2025? What are you looking forward to? What are you thinking about? Maybe what are you going to be implementing or what are you keeping your eye out for?

Well, my new company is called Transaction alliance. And when I looked around and, and tried to really think through how he's going to set up that company, I realized that I have to. I offer 100% commission for a small amount every every month. I get a transaction fee and a quarterly fee to pay for things like Follow Up Boss, which we offer all our people and Dotloop. And then because they're going to use their own websites anyway, I don't want to chase money, you know, I don't chase my fees that I charge. So we electronically collect that from them every month, if that makes sense. We're still full service people. But my attitude is, hey, the only brand that matters as a realtor is yours. Not Transactional alliance or ReMax or Caldwell Banker. Focus on your own brand. Treat it like a business. Watch your bottom line. And it seems to work. I only have 14 agents right now, but you know what? My startup costs are paid for. I'm profitable my first year. I don't have offices because agents don't go in them to the degree that makes it worthwhile for me to have that operating expense. And it's just working for me at this point. So to me, you know, I can still give that service. I could still have a culture, sort of, but I think the agents have to develop their own culture for their own companies and make that work for them and brand themselves to be profitable.

I love the model and I wish you continued success in 2025. I appreciate you doing this with me and always happy to hear from you by email.

All right, thanks so much, man. You have a good one.

Thank you, you too. Thanks so much to Kim, Brandon, Jennifer and Jonathan not only for making Real Estate Team OS part of how you're learning and growing, but also for helping make this episode. And thank you for checking this out. This is part two. If you want to check out part one with four other folks, that's the previous episode, go ahead and check that one out. I know you'll enjoy it if you enjoyed this one. And I hope that you make Real Estate Team OS part of your 2025 game plan. Go to realestateteamos.com subscribe when you sign up there. It's absolutely free by the way. You'll get immediate access to 7 subscribers Subscriber only episodes. You'll get email exclusive insights sent to you every single week. You can always reply to those I'm on the other side. I wish you a wonderful holiday season. I hope you hit the ground running in 2025 with granular goals and a very clear game plan. Let me know how we can help. Best to you. Thanks for checking out this episode of Team os. For email exclusive insights every week, sign up at real estate team OS.com.

How to how to strategically think to prepare yourself for that market. That's coming up.

By the way, I have really enjoyed our emails on that topic. Both Mike Simonson of Altos Research and Tom Ferry have been on the show. I've not yet had Brian Buffini, but that'd be, that'd be a really interesting one too. And I would ask him something that I want to ask you right now, which is, you know, thoughts on the team model in general. I mean, you've been in the business for a while. You've seen it from a couple different perspectives in a franchise independent agent, you know, leading a brokerage. What do you think about the team model? Like where is it going, do you think?

Well, what I think is that it's changing like everything else. And I think, you know, I think you can make a team whatever you want. But I think what's happening now that I'm seeing a little bit of is that, you know, if you're the team leader and I'm an agent, I might just flip you a deal, have a contract between us and say, hey, you know what, let's do this split on this deal or go to another agent if it's, you know. So I see, I see it kind of expanding in different ways and not having such a small ecosystem of a team but you could make a team member. It's kind of like those one time showings that we have now for the exclusive buyer agencies. You're going to show one house for me, and you might pull somebody on your team for one transaction, or you might have them for two or three. But I think, you know, when you look at the team model that started out really good for, like, Zillow leads, I think that's becoming a harder play because of the price point, and I think it's potentially reducing your profitability. And I also think, you know, if on the buy side, if, you know, if the average commission's 5% lower because of this new agency rule, this new NAR ruling, that's going to kind of throw their models off a little bit and they're going to have to recalibrate because 5% off on their commission, that's going to. The team leader is a big deal when you've got a big team. And I think there's a lot of people thinking about that now.

You'll really enjoy the second episode in the Inside Whistle Realty series because Chris vandervoctor, coo, talks very much about trends he's observed in margin compression, which is essentially what you're just talking about. And you're right. I mean, there's a lot of flexibility and room to move, and I don't think it will ever land in a particular place. And by that I just mean, like, what a team is and what it isn't. And really the puzzle pieces are, you know, from an agent seat and a team leader or broker seat. Who pays for what, what are they paying for it? How is it all managed? And how can we continue growing our businesses together? And the most effective teams that I've talked with are figuring out a way to do it in these environments in a way that's equitable for everyone, that keeps someone even, because there's always a race to the bottom in every single industry. And there's someone always willing to cut an agent an air quote, better deal. But what looks better on the top line doesn't necessarily net out as the best deal on the bottom line. And in some cases, an agent is better inside a team.

Yeah. When I started the mortgage business hiring loan officers, I think the mistake I made was hiring too many of them. Because what I would do, even back in the day, I'd just put my headset on, take the app online, pull credit, decision it, and say, meet me tomorrow at 3 with W2s, you know, tax returns, whatever they needed. And hiring more loan officers actually reduced my profitability. And I think that may be the same with teams A little bit. You know, I think if you're lean and mean and you have some someone that you can count on to take that lead and get it to the closing table, that's critical. And that may just be one or two people and you might. Your profits may go up because of that.

Yeah, I've heard the most profitable model, I think is from a Tom Ferry episode or presentation or something. The single most profitable model is a super productive real estate agent with one or two or three W2 employees around them. The next one in more of a traditional team, and you could call that a team, but in the more traditional team format, the next version is what's popularly referred to as a SEAL team, which is what you're talking about. You know, it's 8 to 10 super productive agents with just enough staff behind them to take, you know, the kind of. The less dollar productive activity off the plate. And for the owner of that team, who is also still in sales production herself or himself, that becomes the most profitable model for the owner of the team because it still has a family feel too, can be super, super engaging for agents. So this has been super fun. I would love to know, before we call it a conversation, what's ahead for you in 2025? What are you looking forward to? What are you thinking about? Maybe what are you going to be implementing or what are you keeping your eye out for?

Well, my new company is called Transaction alliance. And when I looked around and tried to really think through how he's going to set up that company, I realized that I have to. I offer 100% commission for a small amount every, every month. I get a transaction fee and a quarterly fee to pay for things like Follow up Boss, which we offer all our people and dotloop. And then because they're going to use their own websites anyway. I don't want to chase money, you know, I want to chase my fees that I charge. So we electronically collect that from.