Kris Lindahl on Putting People in Positions to Win | Ep 006

No matter where your business is today or where you want to take it, you'll get there faster and more profitably with an operating system. Welcome to Team os, your guide to starting, growing and optimizing a real estate team. Here's your host, Ethan Butte.

For insights into starting, growing and optimizing a real estate team, we're talking with Chris Lindahl. A few fun facts before we get started. He's been nominated Innovator of the Year several times by Inman News. Be generous is a core value for the team, an apparel line and the spark behind the Chris Lindahl Foundation. And he's often recognized as the arms out beyond the billboard guy. And you might see people do the Lindahl at a Minnesota Twins or Minnesota Wild game. Chris, thanks for talking Team Os today.

Awesome. Thanks for having me. That's quite the introduction.

Yeah. You know, I try to get a lot of ideas into one compact intro and there's so many things we could share about how you got where you are. But to get started, I'm going to ask you a question I've already asked you once before and that is what is a must have characteristic of a high performing team?

And there's, there's so many. I'm trying to think of what would come to the top. I think the, the market that we're in today is the ability to pivot. Right. If, I mean, I, you look at the world that, you know, that we just came from and where we're headed, if you don't have the ability to move and navigate, it's going to be tough.

Yeah. How do you advise anyone to stay in touch with what's going on? Localize it, because obviously every local market has some nuance to it. And then also share that within the team. Like how do you make sure that your team members who are representative of your brand and they're representative one another collectively, how do you make sure that folks, I mean, you're driving some of that pivot yourself. But then there's also like, this needs to be executed out on the street with buyers, with sellers, with partners. Kind of. How does that flow go for you? Like, how do you stay in touch and how do you make sure that the team is in touch with it too?

It comes back to one of the things that anyone that's any sort of leadership position or has been a part of any framework, it's the right seats, conversation, having people in the right seats. And so first it's gathering that information. Right, Right. What is it that is happening in the world what are the indicators of where we're going? You know, what measurables are we using? Like, what is our scorecard, right? What, what is it that we're, we're actually trying to achieve? And then looking at what is the, what are the macro things that matter to us and then really distilling those at a local level, right? We know what rates are doing, we know what jobs are doing, we know what the bonds are doing. Like, those are all things that we know. But how does that impact us at a local level? And we've got to get into, you know, supply levels. I mean, I think in today's world, that's a very big one, looking at days on market which has a direct correlation to price reductions. And so you get all that information and you've got to have someone that can gather that and they've got to be, you know, that's got to be someone that has that research, you know, detail orientation that can put those things together. And then you've got to have someone that can deliver that to the team. Right? I think one of the assessments, we use a lot of them, one of them is working genius, which you and I have talked about before. But you got to make sure that you've got someone that can not only deliver that to a team, but stay with them, right? So if you have galvanizing to get them all excited, but you're not willing to stick, stick with, stay with it. Well, then you've got to find someone on the team that is in that seat to do that. And so that's a critical piece for us, is making sure that you've got the right people in the right seats to be able to not only get that information, stay in tune with what's happening. Because it changes by the, it seems like by the minute today, like a new report comes out, something changes and then the market goes crazy, rates go crazy. Like, consumer confidence gets impacted and like, and then you need to know what to do with it. And so it, it, it really comes down to the people aspect, because so much of business, and especially with what we're doing, it's all about the people. And we're only as good as where we put them. And the place that they, the place that they're best served in, their genius really comes down to the framework that we have. And so as long as we have the right framework in place and everyone's true to, to really what they're doing and we've got the right scorecards and accountabilities, then we set Everyone up to win and then that's how you get to that next level. Even in a, you know, the macro headwinds that we have today.

Yeah. It always delights me to hear the word scorecard used in this context for honestly like I'm going to ask this on be like someone's like o. Okay, scorecard. Tell me more. Just give a quick go to scorecards for folks who aren't familiar with that language.

Yeah. So you've got your company, you know, you've got your company scorecard which I think is the. I mean none of these are easy to assemble, right. I mean they're, I mean it's really challenging. It's taken us years and we also, we still have a lot of work to do. I mean, by no means do we have it all figured out. It's evolving and ongoing and changing and everything. You can think the priorities that we thought were where the business six months ago might not all be the same priorities today or of the future. And so it's, it's changing but it's really getting down to what are the ground level activities per position? Right. I think a lot about sports and you think about football like the wide receiver in most cases isn't going to do a significant amount of blocking compared to the offensive line. There's going to be some blocking that's going to be the receiver. They're going to be in motion and crackback, which is kind of illegal now in football. But a lot of those things are going to be position type like the, the running back isn't going to be throwing a lot of passes, but the quarterback is. Right. And so, and so really getting down to that, what are the key responsibilities per person on the team and if everyone does those things? Well, I mean you could look at it from a stoplight report like green, yellow, red, or you could be on track, off track. If all of those are on track. Well, you know, already know that the company metrics and scorecards are going to look good. But if you only have the company ones and you don't have the individual ones. Well, when the company ones are off track, you don't necessarily know exactly where to go. Right. There's in the, the numbers. I mean this is coming from a super high vision person that doesn't like to be in the weeds of tracking and dashboards and spreadsheets and all the things that go with that. But the math and the numbers actually tell you where your problem is in most sales organizations. Right. You can see like, okay, where is our problem at like. And then you. And then you've got to be able to, then you've got to be able to run quickly towards that. Whether it's, you know, in, in some cases in businesses like ours, it might be just a temporary band aid. Well, we can build out bigger process, you know, to, to fix it long term, right? So it's like, it's like the boat. It's like plug the hole, right? Like, okay, now do we need a new boat? Do we need to refurbish the boat? Like, what do we need here? Right? And then we go back and assess. But you can only do that really well when you have the right seats, the right people in the right seats. And I think that's critical. And I. Growing up, I think and I just. Actually we had our, our all day with our leadership not too long ago and I. One of the things I mentioned there is like, I want to be a part of a company in an organization that feels like the highest level sports teams that I ever played on, where the 6, 6 center doesn't think they're going to be the point guard and dribble the ball up the court because they don't know how to dribble. They're really clear on, you know, what it is they do well and what they should not do. And so when you can get an entire organization and it's not easy to do because we're all human beings, right? We have our blind spots, we have our weaknesses. Like there's all the other factors that come into play with this. And so just really getting everyone to put the team before the eye and putting that all together is, is critical. And I think that's how we've been able to do that well. But it hasn't been easy and, and there are a lot of challenges and I think some of what I said there might sound a little easier said than done too.

Yeah, it's. It is a long work in progress and so we're documenting where the company is going the way that I've done them in organizations I've. We're usually throwing it out, you know, kind of a, you know, 10 to 20 year, like big vision thing. Throwing it out. Three, throwing it out one and then looking at the quarter ahead. And then the other benefit of having individual scorecards with clear expectations. We'll kind of get to this later in this conversation is makes hiring easier. It makes expect expectation setting easier. It's clear communication. Hey, this is what we agreed was going to be important to both of us in this position. And so like it just creates this clarity and alignment that you spoke too.

Before we get, I want to just add one really quick thing that you mentioned there that I think is really important. What I found is that most people want that too.

Yes.

Most people want that scoreboard, most people want that accountability. They want that purpose. They want to know what they're driving.

Towards and how am I helping the team.

Yeah. And so there's nothing that drives most human beings more crazy than wondering what does, does what I do even matter and how am I impacting the greater good in the whole of this entire thing? And so the more you can show, like, how does this all play out? You're actually going to get more from people. It's going to set up stronger one on one conversations of like, Ethan, like your numbers are off the chart. You're crushing it right now. That encouragement keeps you going. And, and on the other side of it, if there's a few numbers that are off track, like we can have some productivity conversations, some coaching sessions around, like Ethan, I see an opportunity here where I can help you grow. You're going to, you know, surpass your numbers and two weeks from now we're going to look back and if you implement these little things, it's going to make a big difference. But when you don't know those things, it's really hard to have the conversations. And I, I found, I mean this, like being a super high vision person, a lot of times my vision outruns the operations of the company and that's, that can be healthy, but it also can be dangerous at the same time. Right. It's like when you're so far ahead, you start making decisions that the back end is not ready for. And so it's really important that as you look at all of the metrics and you look at all the things that are happening, that you have at least an understanding of where things stand operationally before you make decisions. Because most really high vision people tend to make decisions more on intuition and gut and less on data and facts. Right. It's like, oh, this just. And a lot of cases that high vision person with the high intuition is more often than not right. They're not wrong. But sometimes the operations side of like the, the details and the facts of the entire thing cannot keep up with that level of vision and intuition. And then you add in, you know, quick start and all the other things that go into it. But that's where the more information, even for me that, that I am a really heavy intuition Personality just to, I just want to see the details like really fast, like they help me, like just, I just don't need, I don't. I want a really high level. I want it really quick. It just helps me really quick validate how I'm like, is my intuition right? Oh, wait, like I thought it was this, but now I'm looking at that like, oh, that must be that. And so the two together work well. But you're never going to see me in the trenches digging through numbers, trying to figure out how the facts can sell my intuition.

Man, we're okay. We're in it now. So I think it's especially important. I mean, you mentioned like having coaching conversations with salespeople. I think for your admin team where they don't have an as easy a scoreboard, this, am I winning? Am I losing? Am I contributing? How am I contributing? You know, the scorecard is especially helpful there. So now you make me want to double back. You just mentioned an all day with your leadership team. How often do you do that and what does that day look like?

Yeah, so we do quarterly all days. We do a two day annual and we do weekly leadership meetings and have for a long time. And then we also do quarterly state of the companies. We do one for the employees and one for the agents. Like, where are we at? Like, what did we do? You know, what did we, what do we get to celebrate? Where do we, where have we identified the opportunities are for the next quarter? Right. It just, it's a, it's a way for people in the company to get a pulse on where things are at. Right. Because so often, you know, you know, when we're, we're in a company like this, you know, you're just, you know, your head down every single day that you don't really come up for air to see. Like, how does this actually all look? You know, like a 360 view of the entire thing. And so it's just really good for people to hear that. And one thing that was, you know, you were just talking about that I, that I thought about too, a lot of times people with higher vision. I say that because there's a lot of people, you know, that are, they're going to consume this, that are probably team leaders or agents that maybe are transition team leaders or broker owners that likely have some vision. So not every single person has vision. And so the things that I'm describing that we have implemented into our company really help people with little to no vision. Right. The things that we can see or that we know are going on. You might have other people in the company that are, that do super well at their job, that cannot see how all the other dots are connecting, like, hey, I wonder why they're putting this in place. I wonder why this is happening. And they have zero idea how this is all going to come together someday, right? And so when you can articulate that at a quarterly and you've got your leadership meetings and we also have our weekly department level meetings as well, that you know, a lot of those issues and things roll up ultimately to the leadership meeting, but it keeps everyone in tune with where you're going. And the more of those conversations, that structure that you follow, the more that people are in the know of like, what are we doing here? And especially, I mean, I think now more than ever market changes, right? Things are changing. Like, you know, I bet a lot of companies, I'm just guessing, but I would imagine finance departments of brokerages and teams are like, where are the commission checks at? Right? And so if they don't, you know, I mean with you got significantly less sales and they just came from an environment where checks are getting processed like crazy and their deal flow is at an all time high to that just slowly going down for most companies and all of a sudden they're like, whoa, like are we still going to be in business? Like what is this going to look like? And if, and if they don't have any clarity to anything else that is happening and, and, and really just like a slight education on how this is all going to be assembled in a, in a new way and in a new world, they assume the company's going out of business tomorrow. Right. I mean if they don't have high vision and most people in finance, they're high execution, right? And so, and so those things really make a big difference because just like the economy overall, there's a consumer confidence, there's also an employee confidence level. Right? So how do employees feel about the company? How do they feel about the mission, the vision? Like do they still believe in the direction? Because the minute that you lose that faith, well, they're looking for a new job, right? And so I think those things are really important to stay in tune with that and recognize that, that everyone consumes and understands things very differently. Some people are super fast, you give them a couple of words and like, yep, get it all makes sense and others need to hear it like four or five times and it doesn't make anyone better or worse or right or wrong. It's just we all see the world differently. And so you have to make sure that you have a structure in place to, to really adhere to all the different personality types and the different types of humans you have in the company. Otherwise you're going to have some people that are feeling slightly lost in an, in an environment like this.

Really good call out again, especially on this idea that it's not for better or worse. We just have different strengths and weaknesses and these are the mechanisms that allow us to operate as a maturing, growing company even when we face headwinds. I would also add that the regular cadence there, I mean you talked about some weekly activity. The quarterly all company, the quarterly planning and the quarterly all company communication, the annual leadership planning. All really critical not to skip any of that stuff because that's how we keep it all moving and it creates norms and expectations for those people that really need those to feel comfortable and confident. Okay. Before we get too much farther, I would love for you, Chris, to characterize your team however you like. Market size, structure, personality or culture. Like however you want to characterize your team. I'd love for you to do that.

Yeah, I appreciate that. So the reason we've been able to do what we've done is because of our people like number one. That's our, one of the biggest strengths that we have. I mean, I think there's some other things that, that, that come after that. I mean we have a really well known brand. I mean we're consistently the number one team in Minnesota and Wisconsin, which rankings to me don't mean much of anything. I think there's a lot of other things that are far more important. But of course that might be something, you know, easy to say from someone that's that, you know, for us that Ben number one so many times. But, but I think, you know, when I look at our company today, it's very, it's a team, it's all run as a team. 90% of the business, through our entire, the entire production, our company comes generated from the company. Right. Which is very rare. So we don't have in our model, we don't have a lot of agent source business, meaning agents are going out and prospecting or going to their friends and family. They are coming to our company because we are providing them with opportunities and we've created a very intuitive, streamlined process to allow them to focus on the things that they love to do. And we've taken care of the things that I learned from my own journey of being an agent that I didn't love to do and I wasn't good at. Right. And so we're constantly implementing different things into the structure that make life easier for the agents. And I think often agents don't even know the things that they love to do or don't love to do until you get a chance to step back or step out and reflect and go, gosh, what portions of my job do I really not like or am I not really good at? And that's what I had the opportunity to do is when I stepped in that team leader spot, I started realizing the things I was like, gosh, I really wasn't good at this. I really struggled here. And if we could just build some of these things for all the other agents and the things that they're going through, we'll save them the future pain that they don't know that someday they're going to have. And, and so that's what really what our journey has been. And it's set up a lot of other things that we've now been able to implement and put in place. And you know, the, the branding is I think, what most people know us for. We've created one of the more well known brands in a, in a local dmas and I think that's what's pretty cool. Like, you know, we're, I mean, Minnesota and is not a small. Minneapolis St. Paul is not small. Not the, not, you know, not the mega size, but I mean it's in the top 15. Right. And so that, I mean you talk about getting to a point where you have millions and millions of people that know who you are. Like, like top of mind, that is not easy to do. You know, I think there's some luck that we had of riding, you know, an economic wave in an industry that was going up. And so I don't know how many more companies you'll see do what we did in the near future. Like, the economics just aren't there, right. With the, the conditions and everything that's going on to be able to go all into the level that we did. So I mean, I think of course we have a lot of great people. We had a lot of, you know, there was a lot of skill that went into building this brand. But I'm going to also acknowledge that we were going straight up at the same time in the economy and in the industry. So that definitely didn't hurt. But all of this now put together with the changes that have, that have come, have created a lot of opportunity for us. Right. And that's what, that's the Most exciting thing of all of this is I think most companies, most agents, most brokers are sort of where they are at right now. Like that's where they're going to be brand wise for a while. Like there's not going to be a significant amount of musical chairs happening. Like you either have a brand or you don't. And you're probably not going all in to create one in the landscape that we're in today. And if you are, you better have a big bankroll and be comfortable like going in the red for a long time before you get ahead. And there just aren't a lot of people I think are going to stomach that to that level. And so, so that's the exciting thing and we're starting to see a lot more of the agents in our markets recognize that and come to our company because they're not in a position that they were several years ago to go take risk to get leads where now the sales cycle or the customer, you know, moving cycle is now 12 months as opposed to before it was 30 days. Right. So now if you're an individual agent and you're buying leads, you're not getting your money back for 12 to 14 months. And so you have to have a really deep savings account to be able to spend forward to that level as whereas we've got this machine running and been in a lot longer. And so agents are starting to see that because there are also still a significant amount of agents. Agent count versus the number of transactions so per agent deals is really lowering quickly.

Yeah, a lot there. I especially appreciate that 90% team generated, that's super powerful and I can see why that'd be really helpful in a market like this one in particular. And I feel like the key lever to the whole thing speaking to the broker, the team leader in this scenario is that the margin is gone and therefore the ability to reinvest is going to put you in the red. If you want to build brand and generate leads in different ways besides just straight up buying them.

Yeah. Initially anyone building a brand is deficit spending. Right. I mean, I mean anyone that is really building something substantial you look at, I mean they are always spending ahead, they're always spending forward. Like, and in an environment where there's uncertainty or you're, or, or you're not, there's not a clear picture of like I always think about the Wayne Gretzky puck of like skate to where the puck's going to go. There aren't a lot of people right now in the world that know exactly how this thing's going to end and what the next chapter is going to look like. And so to, to dive deep into creating a brand and doing all these things. When you don't know where the puck's going, you don't actually even know where the puck is on the ice, right? And so, I mean, every day it changes. One day you're like, it's going to be the craziest recession. The next day it's like, oh, it's going to be the softest landing and everyone has money, right? And it's everything in between. And so you just don't know. And so we've been a little cautious because we, because we don't know exactly what it's going to look like, but we have that luxury to be cautious because of what we have built. And I really think that in the next several years, like, the branding piece of this is going to be everything, especially when houses aren't selling as fast, when things aren't moving as fast, consumers go to the names that they know and trust. And that's exactly why companies market and brand is for trust. And so in a downturn, when things aren't flying off the shelf, you have a lot of people that are inbound. We're. I can already tell the market changes that are happening in our market based on the calls that we're getting, based on the areas that they're coming from, based on the price points in the style of home. I can already see where the market is fracturing. I can see it, like, I can see where the problems are just on our inbound. Right. And, and those people are calling us because they can't sell their home. Right. They're struggling now and what they thought. And a lot of them still aren't at the level of. They're still somewhere between what it was three years ago and, and where we are today. And they're not really willing to do the things it's going to take to sell their home today. And I, I can see all of that happening. And, and I always knew that, like, the downturns are where companies really make the traction. And when you have a brand to do it, you're set up and you're so uniquely positioned. Right. I mean, I saw first, when I first got into real estate, most of the agents that I met or saw, like, no one knew who they were. Right? I mean, they're cold calling and door knocking and the homeowner's like, wait, who are you? Like, they don't even know what they did or where they were, where they worked or anything. And there's in a market like this, that's tough. Like, it's tough to call someone that doesn't know who you are, doesn't know your company, and you're trying to sell a solution, and they frankly don't trust you. And so we see, you know, newer agents that are getting in the business or just got started and transfer over to our company. The lift that they get is so insane and it's so fast because they're able to be. They could be brand new to real estate, and people recognize the brand that they're with. And so pair the right people coming to our company with our branding, and those two things together are rocket fuel.

Yeah, man. Gosh, a lot of really good stuff there. I want to. I want to double back a little bit into, you know, you're talking about when you became a team leader and you recognize some of the things that you were not great at. I also want to acknowledge a lot of the macroeconomic conditions that have been thematic throughout what you've been sharing so far. And I would love for you to tell the story of kind of the window in your career when you decided to step out of production and to start leading the team full time. I know that you'll already do it.