Marketing and Your Tech Stack with Chase Whitney | [Techtember] Ep 045

CRM, lead gen website, IDX and good old fashioned snail mail. These are the five pillars of Chase Whitney's success with his tech stack and he breaks each one of those down, including preferred vendors in this Tech Timber episode of Real Estate Team os. Chase has been a real estate agent for more than a dozen years now, but he's doing today some things that he started decades ago on behalf of his parents Real estate business in the zone of geographic farming, door knocking, handing out flyers and other direct human to human things that are fundamental to building a relationship based business. Chase shares with us some of the fits and starts of growing beyond a three person family based business to an eight person real estate team. He shares how he fought through shiny object syndrome, including going through seven CRMs to build an integrated thoughtful tech stack that complements again the very human to human way they prefer to do business. I know you'll enjoy this Tech Timber episode with Chase Whitney right now on Real Estate Team os. No matter where your business is today or where you want to take it, you'll get there faster and more profitably with an operating system. Welcome to Team os, your guide to.

Starting, growing and optimizing real estate team.

Here's your host, Ethan Butte. Chase, I am so excited to have you on the show in general, but I'm also especially excited to have you on the show for this Tech Timber episode. Welcome.

Hey, thank you so much. This is an honor to be here and happy to chat.

I assume you've seen at least one or two of the episodes. Oh yeah.

Oh yeah, of course.

Okay, cool.

So you know those are. Your line of questioning is so good. No such good information. You guys share all the time.

Cool. I appreciate, I especially like we're gonna get into your team. I think what you all are doing is really unique and your approach to it is really powerful. But I'm gonna start where we always do, which is a must have characteristic of a high performing team.

Communication and culture. I think without, without the two of those, you're up a creep without a paddle. I mean the one thing going beyond even my team, but into my office and the brokers that I've been with for only 13 years now and my parents for 24 years now is just the culture. You have to like where you work, you have to like coming in, you have to like the people that you associate yourselves with locally or nationally of course. But I think those two things give.

Me another go at culture. I think it's one of those words, you know, it comes up on this show a Lot more than I maybe even expected. Like, I've always known that culture is really key to any successful organization, but I think a lot of people don't understand it. It's a little bit difficult to get your hands on. It's hard to measure, you know, it's hard to put. I mean, you can do some internal surveys and things and get feedback. But how do you think about culture and what are some of its components?

Well, I mean, it goes back to. I forget what book it's from or who's who said it. But, you know, you are who you're. You are who you associate yourselves with or who you spend your time with. So. And that goes. That's true, obviously, with your personal relationships, but also with work. So again, I mean, if you're coming into the office and you have your meetings and such, whether it's team or brokerage, and you just don't jive with the people, you don't value what everyone else is saying. If you, you know, I like being around where I'm not at the number one in the office. They like having someone to strive to and someone to imitate or emulate would be the word. Again, it is hard to quantify, but I just think you have to be with your people. Again, I don't really know how else to phrase that when you know, you know. But, you know, giving back, you know, spending time outside the office together I think is very important. This is one of the things I actually read from and I'm going to butcher the name of the book. It'll come back to me. But one of the things was to take a relationship from acquaintance or surface level, whether it's friendships or clients building trust with. You have to spend seven hours of time across 11 interactions in four locations. As soon as you cross that threshold, that's when they become friends or become trustworthy and such. And I forget the book. It's from Doggone anyways. But that, that rings true whether again, with clients or with associates. And I think it's a very, very crucial metric to follow.

That book is one that I discussed with Preston Guyton on this show. I also can't remember the name of it, but it's based on some. I have.

It's in my. It's on my bookcase. I've got. Oh my gosh. It'll come to me. It'll come to me. Yeah.

Okay, talk a little bit about. You already mentioned your parents and you're operating inside a brokerage that, that you all feel really good about. Talk about your own journey into real estate over the past dozen plus years.

Sure. I mean, so I grew up around it. So my folks had both gotten licensed in 96 and 97. Dad came from Boeing, mom came from a traveling garment, garment saleswoman. And they both joined together. They were with, you know, large franchise at the time and then migrated over to our current brokerage, which is First Team Real Estate here in Orange County. I grew up, So I was 10 at the time and I grew up around it and you know, jokingly told them I would never get into real estate because you work too hard, you work nights, you work weekends, you're never off. I would farm and pass out flyers on my rollerblades when I was 11 and 12 years old for, you know, Pokemon and magic cards. So, you know, I grew up around it. I got out of high school, I went to City College, I was in bands. I'm a drummer, musician. We, you know, I went that route, tried to go the rock star route and got close but not quite, and finally was in music retail, kind of living that life. And then finally just wasn't paying the bills. And I'm like, well, I don't want to go back to school. Nothing really excites me about that. What can I do? Oh my goodness, what the heck, six months and I could be a licensed realtor and make my parents have a heart attack. So I did and, you know, here I am, you know, 14, 12, 13 years later. But I will say, I mean, it wasn't. You didn't flip a switch and became successful. I mean, it took me several years, I was part time for a year to kind of pay the bills and then dove in head first, but to really get my feet wet and feel confident and comfortable, it was a, it was a solid five or six years. It was not a quick, you know, journey to success, if you want to put it that way. So. Yeah, but I mean, ever since we started the team structure beyond my parents and I, because we all kind of operated as one cohesive unit versus you do this, I'll do that. We were all appointments together, we would farm together, we would go to meetings. It was all the same thing. The team structure started more in 2019, 2020, and it's morphed back and forth to present day. It's still, my parents and I, we have three agents that work with us and then we have two support staff.

Okay, now talk about some of those ebbs and flows. Like, what was the motivation in 2019 and what were some of the iterations and what drove that? Because where you are is where a lot of people we're talking with are, and they're wondering, like, what's next? Where do I go? Is what I'm doing right now enough? Should I be bigger? What are the challenges? So I feel like over the past five years, from the dawn of it at 2019, and like, let's do it this way, whatever those iterations were, you kind of. You mentioned. I'd love for you to share as much of that as you can.

Yeah. I mean, and it's going to be contrary to what a lot of the larger teams you've talked to with. And this might be a good thing. You know, we're super small. Right. And so, you know, we were always a family team, like I had mentioned. And really, the impetus to kind of get that first buyer's agent was just too many leads in our database that weren't getting touched, weren't getting called and followed up with time constraints, lack of desire for any of us. And whatever it might have been, I forget. It was really just the size of the database was getting too big to handle. Right. And so. But I went about it not really in the best way, just kind of grabbed the first person that would listen to me. And this was in 2019, and fizzled after a few months, and then we grabbed someone else. Fizzled after a few months and grabbed someone else. And I just didn't quite grasp the. And I'm not a recruiter. It's not what I want to be. So it was a different mentality. Right. And so it had. I really, you know, thought this all through again and kind of figured it had to kind of match the culture. It wasn't just a warm body. It had to be someone that had the work ethic, had the communication style, had the culture fit. Right. And so we did grab. We got someone really, really good back in 2022 and. And she left after about a year. And that was hurt. That hurt because we had one agent and that was it. But ever since, we have slowly kind of brought on a few more. We stopped the recruiting process and then went into. Let's get a really good isa that can kind of be that machine in the back end, just making sure one's getting hit. We brought on, had some struggles on the VA side of things. Very happy now. But that was another process that was a big learning experience. And I'm so thankful for a lot of the community in follow bonds and some of my dear friends now, Laina Key and Shea herron. And Jeff McGonagall, I mean some of those people have been really instrumental in helping me get the structure around the team versus just again, warm bodies in general.

What is your balance, would you say, of deal generation? Is it past clients, referral, sphere of influence, or is it a 5050 with online lead gen? Like how do you characterize that piece of it?

Yeah, so great, great question again, probably contrary to a lot, because we're not a. Not a Zillow flex and we generate a ton of online leads. That is not a primary source of our business. As much as I'd like to increase it. That's always a struggle. But no, I mean, so I do kind of separate out the. I call it the core team, my parents and I and then our team team. I gotta find a better name for that. But core team. So the three of us, honestly, past clients, Geographic farm and Sphere and then referrals therein. By far and away, those three together is like 85% of our business. On the team side of things, it would be a mix of open house, their own sphere and online. We're on the core side of it. I mean we're still super old school. We're knocking doors ourselves, we're dropping flyers ourselves, ourselves, mailing ourselves. I mean that's what we do. And so we have. I grew up farming once a week for 24 when I'm. I'm 37. So now you know, seven, 27 years of farming, same neighborhoods over and over and over.

You you said contrary a couple of times. I think there are going to be a lot of people that are like, find this very refreshing. Like, oh, well, that's what I do and I can really relate to that. Why do you all. And then we'll get into some, some tech stuff. I promise. For folks that are expecting a tech timber episode, this does this layers right in though. Sincerely, it does. As someone who understands tech, we're going to talk about all the different CRMs you've been through and kind of what some of that motivation is and what you learned through that process, what some of the core pillars of a healthy tech stack is for a small but productive real estate team. Before we get there, I want to know, like, in light of your passion and interest in developed or developing or developed expertise in real estate, tech and making it work together for your business, why do you still do old school stuff that's manual and direct and difficult to. I mean, we hire VAs to organize things or to maybe, you know, serve as ISAs, make some phone calls? Line up appointments. We don't hire VAs. I don't think to go door knocking for us. So like, you know, you're doing stuff that can't be leveraged out or hired out, or it's just the good old fashioned sincere direct connecting, communicating, building relationships work. But it's, it's a commitment. So I just love it. Like, I feel like I know what the answer is kind of. But I want to hear you talk about it so that other folks can relate.

Number one, it was how I was trained, how I was brought up. That's the first answer. The second answer is it works. And, and I guess the longer version of that is all of the technology that I've brought on or we've brought on and the industry in general has brought on, my perspective is that all of these tools should help increase efficiency. It should help be more productive, but it shouldn't replace us. That's why I'm pretty opposed. Again, contrary here. Pretty opposed to the AI phone calling. I just. You can't outsource yourself, right? You can outsource auto texting. I got no problem with that. But you can't outsource yourself. So at the end of the day, all of this technology and all of the things that we're doing, it's still a relationship business. It's the first person on a, on a cold lead to build a connection. Right. But you can't do that without you involved. So, I mean, you know, we've committed so much time and so many resources to geographic farming, to where now we utilize technology. And we'll get to this. On remarketing on, call them smart mailers, where we can kind of track who's doing what with the mailers.

Right?

But when you get that phone call and it's to come, list me, because you've talked to them for 17 years. They've gotten a pumpkin pie every year for 17 years. And they do your garage sales and they enter your contests and you see them every single week mowing the lawn and you're walking by and they're in the garage and you're walking by. That builds trust. And real estate's always been a long game. I mean, online leads are a long game. So it's just a different version of it. But again, you have to be in the communities that you want to service, and you can't do that without being there. Is my opinion on that really good.

I'm so glad I asked you. I unwittingly asked for the answer that I was going to Ask in a different way very shortly. So, like, you really brought that forward and essentially, again, just going back to the top of that for everyone. In summary, play to your strengths and do what works. And for you all, it involves a lot of being out there in person. Talk about your, I mean, you're actively consulting other folks around their technology. Talk about your passion. How did it emerge? How did you, you know, some people kind of have a knack for it, some people don't. Like, some people are like, just tell me, tell me what I should use, tell me how I should use it, tell me why I should use it, I'll decide whether it makes sense and then I'll start paying for it and I'm going to, you know, learn what I need to learn and be off and running. I feel like you're one of those people who really has a passion for it and wants to understand it at a deeper level. You want to know about the new features before the new features are released. When did you become aware that this was a strength and a passion of yours, or did the strength develop because of your passion?

Oh, that's an interesting way to put that organically, I guess I would say on both of those things, the passion and the real kind of figuring out this knack. It was honestly probably two and a half years ago. It wasn't that long ago. I was the shiny object guy forever, right? You go to a trade show and then boom, you sign up for four new things. You go to. You get an email from some cold outreach on Sunday, Boom. Well, demo. And I put a pretty hard stop to that when I kind of took over the reins on the marketing and the finances of the team. And yeah, it was just organic. And the epiphany that I had really was utilizing follow up boss as the nucleus of everything that we do, right? And figuring that as well as it integrates with anything you want, whether it's organic, natively, zapier, custom, whatever you want, you can. And so that was the start of it. And then it was, look, all of these other tools and some of the integration partners and Even other other CRMs that are out there, they're trying to fit everything into their little box and it just wasn't cutting it for me. I really wanted to. The only way to make sure that I had the best of the main pieces that I wanted to focus on was to find partners that specialized in the one niche versus this one platform that does CRM, website lead gen, remarketing, direct mail and transaction management. All these things it can't be the best because it's not possible. Right, because you're spreading R and D across too many different avenues. And it just wasn't working. I kept running into, oh, this is just not what I want. Oh, this is not that. That's really what happened. And I had a, you know, epiphany or light bulb awakening, whatever you want to call it. About. Yeah, about summer of about two years ago, to be honest. And that's when I really started to kind of think about this a little bit differently. Like, okay, well, what if I got rid of X, Y and Z or X for that matter? What could I replace it with? And how would that look? What would the, what would it do for the team and for me? How hard would it be to adopt different tools versus one solution? It's been great. It's been really great.

That's good. I mean, what you made me think about there is like, where am I going to get the better pizza? At Chase's Wood Fired Pizza Shop or at Chase's Pizzas, Burritos, Burgers and more?

You know, sure, 100%. It's the same concept, right? I mean, if you're in a box, you're stuck with what that box does and where that box leads you to. So. Yeah, I mean, that's the short version for sure. Yeah, same exact thing.

So you've written an e book. Part of the subtitle is five Pillars and the book is about real estate technology. I'd love for you to walk through those five pillars and you know, when I think about a tech stack, I think, okay, life cycle of the customer, from initial touch point to, you know, repeat referral, that whole relationship period. Hopefully that's over decades of time. How are we doing all the core stages of those things? What part of it do I should we still be doing? What part should we hire to another human being to do? And what part can we make efficient or better or faster? So like in walking through these five pillars for us, I'd love for you to share, like, are there any gaps? Like, does do these pillars cover that? It's a really big range, but essentially that's where we're looking to figure out how to do our operation more effectively. And technology can be a solution along those stages. So really, really big question, but I just wanted to give you something big to step into and we'll kind of get into the detail after that.

100%. Yeah. So there's, I mean, the five that I kind of put together was just a way Because I was having these conversations so many different times and I wanted a way to kind of condense it into hey, let's talk. But this is, this kind of crystallizes it for in a sense but essentially it's the, it's the core pillars that I've, I've felt that you have to have their ancillary tech tool tech tools that we have all over the place. But the main ones are what I found to be crucial. So obviously is your CRM. And the answer is obviously follow up boss. Right. So that's the core and everything else that we do has to integrate with follow up boss number one. And number two, the kind of, the clever, not clever but unique aspect when we bring on technology is it has to have a benefit to the consumer that we can leverage either in conversations at the listing table, at the buyer consult table. What can we say about what we're investing in that helps them, the end user that's working with us. Right. So the other pillars essentially become idx, a website lead generation slash remarketing. And then the bonus one really was direct mail and a tool around direct mail that allows us to again leverage technology with what we're sending out. And then we'll get into this obviously. But the tools that we use specifically IDX and Nurture would be real scout lead gen remarketing is all done with street text. Our website is done through agentfire and then we use mailbox power for all of our, most of our direct mail and trackable items that we send.

One thing I don't want anyone to miss is your filter for selecting technology, including this little detail that when you think about it up front is going to pay many more dividends down the road, which is how does this benefit the consumer and how do we communicate that to the consumer? Right. So you know, at some level we can all say, well yeah, obviously at the same time for you to articulate it explicitly is a thing. When did you become aware that that was not just an opportunity but like kind of a core criteria for deciding what to implement or even what to choose?

Yeah, well, I'm gonna. Boy, I don't know. I think it just goes back to how I was brought up either in the business or with my obviously personally and in the business but you know, just the client first, right? Everything is client first, right. We not to say this is contrarian because it's not. But I mean the client comes first in all of this, right. If all of the tools that we bring on don't either generate us More business or allow us to provide a higher level of service to said client. What are we doing? Right. So there has to be the benefit and it's not even just a sales pitch. There has to be a tactical, tacit, whatever the word is, benefit that we can talk about as to why we are the solution that they should be hiring and not our competitors. We're still in California. Right. The smallest advantage is going to make us stand out amongst the tens of thousands of agents that we're competing against every single day.

Yeah, very fair. How? Just because you've brought some folks into the team, what does the process look like for you to lay this landscape out for them and welcome into the tech stack that you have. And I'm asking on behalf of anyone who's especially you know, a small or an early stage if they want to get really big team leader who is actively recruiting and or onboarding people into the organization. Any tips you'd share on welcoming people into a tech stack where they may not be familiar with the tools and which of these components would a new agent to a team never even look at or touch?

Oh for sure. Okay. So the only tools that I mentioned that agents would really need to get a deep understanding of would be follow up boss and Real scout. I mean street techs all the lead gen remarketing that we do, I do or we have our VA assisting with mailbox power is 100% me and our VA and oh agent fire agents. Agents know how to get in there for their open house form their lead generation forms when they're, when they're again at an open house but everything else is not done by them at all. So yeah follow boss super simple because you know that's how the program was built so. And again this is not what you're going to hear with the bigger teams and this is a fault of mine but it's very hands on. Right. I don't have systems built out for a you know, 90 day bring on onboarding program because we're just too small for that and I don't really have aspirations to bring on 20 agents. So it's, it's pretty hands on and again maybe it's a fault. I like, I like it because I just am very involved in everything but follow up bosses supports. Great. Real Scout is very simple to both, both tools are very simple to use which is helpful. It's just a slight difference from what they're used to if anything.

Very good. Okay. And this is not a. I'm not asking you to talk about why you love follow up boss. But one of the things that I think is really important about your experience in real estate tech as a user and as someone who's trying to improve the client experience and generate more opportunities through this technology that you're investing in, is that you have been inside and actively used over half a dozen CRMs in the dozen years you've been in the business. And I would just love to know what you learned through that journey. Like how did you select them? At a certain point you're migrating an increasingly larger database from one to the next. I think that's super intimidating for people. There's a lot here I know, but talk a little bit about the motivation from one to another and what the process is like migrating your database and some of the any of the custom stuff that you did in one as you're moving to the other. You've been on a unique journey and I would love for people to learn from your experience.

So again, this goes back to the shiny object syndrome that was really the impetus to all these changes. And it is so freaking painful. It is so painful because every time the systems don't want you to leave, we just changed from T Mobile to Verizon yesterday. I mean they don't want you to move. They make it hard. So I mean, boy, since 2012, I'll run through the list. We went top producer, a tool called MRT or my real estate tools back to top producer to contactually, to Realvolve, to KVCore briefly in a briefly and then into follow, that's eight, eight in and this is through 2019. So that's eight and seven or eight years. Seven years. Brutal, just brutal. And the problem is every time you change into brevity briefly and then into follow up, that's eight, eight in and this is through 2019. So that's eight and seven or eight years. Seven years. Brutal, just brutal. And the problem is every time you change, you do lose data and or it doesn't, it doesn't import properly because they don't want you leaving. So they make it difficult. So boy, really tough. But every time we moved it was that, oh man, this one does one thing, it does this one X thing that we can, we can bring on and then oh my gosh, well, this one can do XYZ and six more things and now we're into a box and then you're stuck in that box like I talked about. So the reason we got into follow a boss was really I got allured into the open ecosystem Right. And, but that's also, I mean again, the community is great, the tool is great. It's always, you know, new features and always innovating. But the reason that we haven't left, I guess in simple terms is there can't be a shiny object because whatever that shiny object would be, I can bring into follow Boss. And I hadn't thought about that that way before, but that it makes sense, right? Because if xyz CRM all of a sudden, boom, they can do this one thing. Well, guess what? I can find someone that can do it too and bring it in. As far as custom stuff, I mean I've not really gone down the you know, outside agency building tools which I know you can do with you know, guys like you know, bar agency and those which they do fantastic work. Thankfully I've not needed to because it gets very expensive. So we've done some zapier integrations but then kind of more customized follow up BOSS itself to work for us with custom fields, stages, lead flow. All the things that hopefully a lot of folks know about or are open to learning about. But yeah, not a ton of fully custom things.

Cool. You've mentioned, you have in this conversation mentioned remarketing a couple of times. I'd love for you to share with people that may not be familiar, what are we talking about? Why does it matter? And, and what are a few keys to doing it?

Well, so retargeting in my understanding and the way I understand it would be again and how I pitch it to sellers too is you know, you're on Amazon, you go look, you're on Nordstrom.com, you look at a pair of shoes, go to Facebook and the first thing you see is that pair of shoes from Nordstrom. That's essentially what it is in a, in a very simple to understand nutshell. And we're doing that with property and with marketing. So whether it's a listing that we're going to remarket to our existing database, it's the only way to really demographically target because you're telling Facebook or Google if you're using Google Ads, telling them who to put the content in front of versus you know, Facebook. Now with fair housing, it's a 15 mile radius and that's pretty much it. And you hope for the best. So that's essentially what it is. The reason why I really, really like what Street Text is doing with the remarketing stuff is a couple reasons. Number one, the integration of all ABOs is phenomenal to where if your database is big Enough, you can subset audiences by tag and stage customize who sees what based on objections, based on zip codes and prices and all these things you can do. That's fantastic. They have a ton of templates that they've proven over years and years of doing this. You can customize everything with video content all day long. But the one really, really cool thing that I like, and this is part of how we're taking our farming areas that we've serviced for 27 years now into the tech realm, is now we're again following our existing database into Facebook and apps and games and stuff, but with street text, it's called ad bundles. So what they're doing is rather than spending, you know, 10 ads and you're at 2 bucks a day, that's 20 bucks a day on 10 different ads. And it gets very expensive pretty quick. What they're doing is allowing you to put those said 10 ads into what's called an ad bundle and then rotate the ads daily, weekly, monthly. Right. To alleviate what's called ad fatigue. It's the same reason, the same concept when you're watching a football game. Progressive insurance is the example I always give, and I tell consumers this at the listing table, right. Is you have flo, you have becoming your parents, you have the Baker Mayfield commercials, and you have this one more campaign they have, but every commercial break, it's a different campaign. It's the same product, but that's what we're doing. So again, today you're gonna see the ad that says, you know, 10 tips for first time homebuyers. Tomorrow it's going to be seven ways to get the best rate on your pre approval. And then the next day is going to be whatever. And then every week they see the same ads over and over, but it's a different ad every single day. It saves your budget, but then also provides fresh content for the consumer on a. On a repeating basis.

Direct mail. When do you use it? When don't you? I mean, obviously I would. I would just assume that most people watching or listening would understand that, you know, direct mail integrates with your CRM. It has for years. Where this is true, this is true, this is false, and this number is between this range. Send them this thing, you know, maybe even as soon as that thing fits or that, you know, those criteria fit. But for you, with what type?

Yeah, that says, you know, 10 tips for first time home buyers. Tomorrow it's going to be seven ways.

To get the of stage of relationship. Do you like direct mail is. Do you Have a little bit of it throughout the whole thing to complement.

The best rate on your pre approval. And then the next day is going to be whatever. And then every week they see the same ads over and over, but it's a different ad every single day. It saves your budget, but then also provides fresh content for the consumer on a, on a repeating basis.

Direct mail, when do you use it? When don't you. I mean obviously digital. When did you get started with direct mail and what do you love about it? When do you use it?

We use it all the time for different things. So we have a few different avenues. So we have eddm which is the cheapest blast, you know, carrier routes essentially. So we have a neighborhood. And again the problem with it though is you're reliant on the literally the postal service as walking routes.

I would just assume that most people watching or listening would understand that direct mail integrates with your CRM. It has for years where this is true, this is true, this is false in this number.

So the problem is only one of our farm areas really fits into one of those molds. Otherwise you're paying for these things. So we do that once a month to about a thousand houses every single month we have for probably 10 years now. Then we have a bulk mail list.

Which between this range send them this thing, you know, maybe even as soon as that thing fits is again past.

Clients sphere that gets something every two months. And we have a custom magazine created that we kind of utilize for this mailing list but that's every two months. And that's again relevant content for a broad, you know, broad strokes of people when we talk about or that, you.

Know, those criteria fit. But for you with what type?

Spear phishing and targeted marketing, we're using a lot more to do with of stage of relationship.

Do you like direct mail is. Do you have a little bit of it throughout the whole thing to complement.

The with the radius mailers around listings. So when we can take a new listing, we'll do probably 300 digital.

When did you get started with direct mail and what do you love about it? When do you use it?

100 to 500 radius and then about 200 or so into our top top 200 clients if you will. And those that's a mix of seller leads, past clients, fee or referral partners, etc. As kind of proof of production. But when we do those, we use all the time for different things. So we have a few different avenues. So we have eddm which is the cheapest. I've chosen to go that route versus EDDM because I would rather just blast, you know, carrier routes essentially. So we have neighborhood send out fewer pieces, but then get insight into who's doing what. So again now talking about pass through benefit to the client, Mr. Seller, when we send out these postcards, you know, you have agents, they're gonna send out 2,000 of them. And that's, that's a decent idea. What we're gonna do is we're. Any of the problem with it though is you're, you're reliant on the, literally the postal service as walking routes and about 750. But when they scan the QR code to look at your home, I know exactly who it is and when they scanned it and how many times. Then I can go call them, knock on the door, email them, text them whatever it is to be proactive into getting your house in front of them and find out who they might know is looking to buy or sell a house. So that's the different version of it. And that's. I really, really love it because it just works every single time, both on the promise to the seller, but also following through and doing it. So the problem is only one of our farm areas really fits into one of those molds. Otherwise you're paying for these things. So we do that once a month to about a thousand houses every single month we have for probably 10 years now. Then we have a bulk mail list which is again past clients sphere that gets something every two months. And we have a custom magazine created that we kind of utilize for this mailing list, but that's every two months. And that's again and yeah, it's worked out really well. And then of course we can, I can, you know, we'll do mail merges for I have a buyer letters as we need to. We can send brownies and cookies and engraved, you know, wine glasses to past clients as a thank you or whatever it might be. So it's just one of those things that we have in our back pocket that we use for, you know, listing marketing a lot of times.

Love it. The QR code piece that you offered there, I mean this is the critical.

Relevant content for a broad, you know, broad strokes of people.

When we talk about component of integrating crucial into your CRM, are you @ the point where you're cross referencing that with their digital activity as well I should. Or that kind of overkill. Are you, Are you sometimes calling and visiting based on their digital activity and sometimes calling and visiting based on spear.

Phishing and Targeted marketing. We're using a lot more to do with, with the radius mailers around listings. So when we can take a new listing, we'll do probably 300, you know.

Interaction with the postcard.

Yep. So actually I did have, I did have Justin Benson help with this 100 to 500 radius and then about 200 or so into our top top two integration. It was a zapier thing, but it was beyond my pay grade. So I did pull in some help on this one. But essentially what I'm doing is sending to Mailbox power the contact list that I want to send to. If it's radius, I'll do it a different way but through follow up boss. Right. For the past clients and targeted lists. When they scan it, it's going to put it back in their record and follow up boss and then all hundred clients if you will. And that's a mix of seller leads, past clients, fee, a referral partner, a text saying Suzie Smith scanned 1, 2, 3 Main street postcard. When I click into it then I'll see all the activity and oh geez, they've looked at their home value 14 times in the last six months. They're looking at three or four houses a week and they're scanning our you know, what's my home worth or just listed postcard. These are all indicators, et cetera as kind of proof of production. But when we do those, I've chosen to go that route versus EDDM because I would rather send out fewer pieces but then get insight into who's doing what caters of intent. And so then of course then it's the phone call. The oh, happen to be in the neighborhood, knock on the door or next time I'm farming, right. Maybe I'm not going to drive anyone knock at this time. Maybe I'll yell in the house at the front, door's open. Right. And just be in front and be present where they're at.

I so love how all of these tools allow us to prioritize people based on their own real behavior there.

So again now talking about pass through benefit to the client, Mr. Seller.

When we send hand raises where you can't see their hand but you can see all of their, all of their activity. And that's the goal of all of this technology.

These postcards, you know, you have agents, they're gonna send out 2,000 of them. And that's a decent idea. What we're doing is we're gonna send about 750. But when they scan the QR code to look at your home. I know, exactly.

I mean, just going back to the top and the way you came into the business and your philosophy and approach, this just makes it more efficient to talk to the right people at the right time.

Well, right. And this. And this is not. This is not a scripting podcast. But I mean, you're not calling them to say, hey, Susie, she scanned my postcard. Do you want to buy the house? Like, no. Hey, Susie, it's Chase. Hope you've been well. Hey, we sent out some information about a listing of ours. Want to know if you had anyone that might be interested in buying it. Oh, yeah, I saw that one. It's a beautiful. You know, they scanned it, but they don't know that you know, so don't freak them out because they're never gonna scan it again. It's so funny.

I spent years teaching and of course using video, email and video messaging, and that was something that I would hear back and also teach all of the time is like when you get that alert that says they just watched 92% of your video, that's when you follow up and reach them and you don't say, hey, I saw you watched 92% of my video. How did you.

Why didn't you watch the last eight?

Yeah, I sent you that video. Wanted to make sure you had a chance to take a look at it because I thought it'd be really useful for you. I was just thinking about you, you know. Okay. One of the pillars that we have.

Not who it is and when they scanned it and how many times, then I can go call them, knock on the door, email them, text them whatever it is to be proactive into getting your house in front of them and find out who they might know is looking to buy or sell a house. So that's the different version of it. And that's. I really, really love it because it just works every single time. Both on the. The promise to the seller, but also following through and doing it.

Not talked about yet specifically is website. When someone is looking at their website provider or considering a new one in your experience, what are some like must have things to look for and what are some like. Nice to have if. But it's not critical front facing.

IDX is not. And yeah, it's. It's worked out really well. And then of course we can. I can, you know, we'll do mail merges for I have a buyer letters as we need to. We can send brownies and cookies and engraved, you know, wine glasses to past clients as a thank you or whatever it might be. So it's just one of those things that we have in our back pocket that we use for you know, listing marketing critical. Be honest with you on that. You know what I think just to.

Be clear, like why would you.

Because no one's coming to your site to look at property period. Like it's just not going to happen. And unless you're spending tens and I mean tens of thousands of dollars on SEO and this and that which some are the vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast majority of agents are not. So again maybe one or two people but that's not a lot of times love it.

The QR code piece that you offered there. I mean this is the critical component of integrating into your CRM. Are you at the point where you're cross referencing that with their digital activity as well I should. Or that kind of overkill. Are you sometimes calling and visiting based on their digital activity and sometimes calling and visiting based on deal breaker you.

Need somewhere because everyone's going to Google where you are and who you are and what you do. So you have to have somewhere for them to land on that provides credibility and value to them before they call you. And we've had several listing appointments cold off a phone call that found us online or a form on our site that comes in and they saw us through the community page on Facebook for.

Our city and then you know interaction with the postcard.

Yep. So actually I did have. I did have Justin Benson help with this one integration it was a zapier thing but it was beyond my pay grade. So I did pull in some help on this one but essentially what they googled us they found our website and they were impressed. You have to have somewhere for them to go. It's got to be pretty. It can't break the bank. Right. But then what the interesting version of this is there are so many things that agentfire has what I'm doing is sending to Mailbox Power the contact list that I want to send to brought to the table that I didn't know I didn't. I didn't know I didn't have or I didn't know that I needed if it's radius I'll do it a different way but through Follow Boss. Right. For the past clients and targeted lists when they I mean it's. It's phenomenal the one that comes to mind I'll be really simple on this are customizable and URL based calls to action to in the simplest way for me to explain this is when we send out our email notification for a new listing. Right. We're going to subset it down to, you know, a thousand people that might like this house. Scan it. It's going to put it back in their record and follow up, boss. And then I'll get a text saying Susie Smith scanned 1 to 3 Main street postcard. When I click into it, then I'll see all the activity and oh, geez. They look at their home value 14 times in the last six months. They're looking at three or four houses a week. Well, I can put a customized video message on just the URL that's used for that email, but not the or the traffic that comes from Facebook. And that video then says, hey, Ethan, it's Chase with the winning team. Thanks so much for clicking on the email. And they're scanning our, you know, what's my home worth or just listed postcard. These are all indicated to look at this property. The one thing you're not going to know about it from the website is that XYZ caters of intent. And so then of course then it's the phone call. The oh, happen to be in the neighborhood, knock on the right. We've had several people every time. How did you do that? Right. Those kinds of things you have to have. You do need to have an ongoing nurture. I'm kind of switching now from site into IDX because they do go hand in hand or site into nurture if you want to call it that. Real Scout is just the best in the business in my opinion. You have to be able to keep property in front of them. I don't care. This is a farming strategy too. Don't care how clever your piece is, how clever your content is and you're just sold postcard and how engaging your, you know, prop six door or next time I'm farming, right, Maybe I'm not gonna drive anyone lock at this time. Maybe I'll yell in the house at the front, door's open, right. And just be in front and be present where they're at.

I so love how all of these tools allow us to prioritize people based on their own real behavior. Their hand raises where you can't see their hand, but you can see all of their, all of their activity. And that's the goal of all of this technology. I mean just going back to the top and the way you came into the business and your philosophy and approach.

This just 90 or 1031 exchange flyer is the number one piece that's going to get the phone to ring every single time is proper.

Makes it more efficient to talk to the right people at the right time.

Right. And this, and this is not. This is not right. No matter how many times we try to reinvent this wheel, property gets the phone to ring. So whether it's a farming piece or drip email constantly with property or it's a just listed property on Facebook or whatever it is, you've got to keep property in front of them. And Roll Scout is the fast scripting podcast. But I mean, you're not calling them to say, hey, Susie, you scanned my postcard. Do you want to buy the fastest, best integration, Too many tools to mention on what it does beyond the other IDX portals and even the MLS for that matter. But those two do go hand in hand and I've got them very well integrated together.

Everyone's got some of this stuff in place and they're, and they're often wondering, is it the right stuff? Is it working the right way? What more could I add alongside it?

These kinds of house, like, no. Hey, Susie, it's Chase. Hope you've been well. Hey, we sent out some information about a listing of ours. You want to know if you had anyone that might be interested in buying it. Oh yeah, I saw that one. It's beautiful. You know, they scanned it, but they don't know that, you know, so don't freak them out because they're never gonna scan it again. It's so funny.

I spent years of things. So I just wanted to like open up that conversation because, you know, when I, when I listen to podcasts, I'm not always listening for what is the exact right thing to do. It's, am I thinking about it the right way? How is this person thinking about it? Oh, I never, you know, it's, you know, these kinds of things. Essentially your version of, you know, it has everything I never knew I always wanted is teaching and of course using video, email and video messaging. And that was something that I would hear back and also teach all of the time is like when you get that alert that says they just watched. My fun way of saying what you said about some of those features of.

Agent, but there's so many use cases to, to make these tools work for you. Right. And I mean on the whole idea thing, right. On a, on a client facing thing, you know, you're at an open house and you overhear them talking about how their kids in daycare at XYZ street and they've got to be near, you know, Target for whatever the reason is.

92% of your video. That's when you follow up and reach them and you don't say, hey, I saw you watched 92% of my video. How did you.

Well, why didn't you watch the last eight?

Yeah, I sent you.

Well, those are things that real Scout has access to that the MLS does not, nor does Redfin and Truly and all the other ones. So. Hey, just heard you. I overheard you talking about, you know, how important it is to be near your daycare and you're always a target in Starbucks. Well, let's get you on a tool that I have and I invest and I pay for, for my clients on your, on our. On their behalf to showcase properties that are within X that video.

Wanted to make sure you had a chance to take a look at it because I thought it'd be really useful for you. I was just thinking about you, you know. Okay. One of the pillars that we have.

Distance from your daycare and show you commute times but also highlight properties that are near Starbucks and near Costco and near Whole Foods.

Talked about yet specifically is website. When someone is looking at their website provider or considering.

So that way when you're looking at properties online, you're contextualizing everything that you're seeing. Would that be okay with you? Great. What's your name and number? Like it just leads right into it. And that's a benefit for them.

And really nicely done in demonstrating the idea that we discussed, you know, maybe 15, 20 minutes ago. It was really well, really well done as people reach out to you and like hey Chase, you know, so and so told me I should reach out to you because I've got this question. What are some common themes when people are reaching out to you with just big bucket here, tech questions, you know, what are some of the common themes that you're running into? I just want to like characterize for people like common themes and problems that people have in some of the ways that you think a new one in your experience. What are some like must have things to look for and what are some like nice to have if. But it's not critical.

Front facing IDX is not critical. I'll be honest with you on that. You know what I think just to.

Be clear, like why would you.

Because no one's coming to your site to look at property.

Think about those things.

Well, that's an interesting question. I get a lot of, I keep hearing about X tool and your name keeps coming up. What's so special about it? And then the nice thing is I Give them real world examples of how we're using it in the business. Because the one thing we didn't talk about on the team structure is I'm very much in production. I am not a, I'm not out of production. I'm very much in the front lines. I'm out, not outsourcing. I'm working less buyers and working mostly listings. But again, I'm at every appointment, every meeting. So I do have real world experience on all this stuff. But. So, yeah, it's, I've heard about xyz. Why is it so special? Or it's, I'm having trouble with what I have right now. What would you recommend I do to kind of fix this problem? And if they just come cold to me and say, hey, you know, want to talk about this? The first question I'll ask is, well, why do you want to leave the company you're already with? Like, what has caused. Because change is hard. And as much as I'd love to see them adopt my system because I just know they work, it's still hard to change. So is it really in your best interest to make this move? And if you do, will you benefit from, from what it gives you, period? Like, it's just not going to happen. And unless you're spending tens, and I mean tens of thousands of dollars on SEO and this and that, which some are the vast, vast. But I, you know, a lot of solo agents, of course, small teams helped, some large teams too. I just, I love sharing it because it works so well and I've gone through so many years of it not working. So now that it does, I'm just, I love chatting about it. And I'm very, I'm a, I'm a tinkerer. I, I'm. Don't give me the help articles. You give me a login and a password and I'll say fast, fast, fast. Vast majority of agents are not. So again, maybe one or two people, but that's not a deal breaker. You need somewhere because everyone's going to Google where you are and who you are and what you do. So you have to have somewhere for them to land on that provides credibility and value to them before they call you. And we've had several listing appointments cold on, off a phone call that found us online or figured out that's, you know, I like doing all this stuff, all this stuff myself.

You know, one of the things, I.

Became sensitive on our site that comes in and they saw us through the community page on Facebook for our city.

And specifically for agents. You know, about a dozen years ago, I actually started selling and serving into the real estate community about the same time that you entered it properly yourself or in earnest? Yourself. And one of the things I became sensitive to right away is that a.

Solo agent, they googled us, they found our website and they were impressed. But you have to have somewhere for them to go.

Is to be so good at so many different things and be responsible for it, either directly doing it or being the GC on that work, no matter how they're sourcing the solution. And a lot of people don't have your natural interest and passion for tinkering, experimenting. Is this better? Is this not better? And so I really appreciate it's gotta be pretty.

It can't break the bank, right? But then what the interesting version of this is there are so many things that Agent Fire has brought to the table that I didn't know, I didn't, I didn't know I didn't have or I didn't know that I needed. I mean so it's, it's phenomenal. The one that comes to mind.

I'll be sharing all this with me and of course everyone who watches and listens, I'm going to share with people or you're going to share with people ways that they can reach out to you and connect with you. But before we do that, I would love to ask you three pairs of closing questions. And the first is what is your very favorite team to root for besides your own real estate team? Or what is the best team you've ever been a member of?

So I bleed red and gold. So simple on this are customizable and URL based calls to app. I am a Niner faithful through and through. So you're not going to get any other answer out of me than that. All the other sports and everything else is secondary. So it was a very painful early part of 2024 for me. So I'm getting back to getting ready for this year.

Yeah, still a solid roster and I like.

Yeah, good roster. Yeah. To. In the simplest way for me to explain this is when we send out our email notification for a new listing. Right. We're going to subset it down to, you know, a thousand people that might like this house. Well, I can put a customized video message on and as a Lions fan.

I'm just going to kind of like one up the pain of that because that second half of that, the one.

The one line, the one line I always love. I have the radio host I listen to on Sirius, Adam Schein. And he every time he talks about, talks about the Lions, he always says, rebuilding since 1957.

Exactly. It's so. Yeah, it's rough and exciting and fun. Anyway, what is one of your most frivolous purchases or what's a cheapskate habit you've held on to probably too long?

I buy too many frivolous things to even mention.

But the thing is, there are categories of these things.

Oh, boy. No, it's just crap. It's all crap.

Okay?

It's all crap. You don't need. Cheapskate habit is. I'll just research just the URL that's used for that email, but not the traffic that comes from Facebook. And that video then says, hey, Ethan, it's Chase with the winning team. Thanks so much for clicking on the email. And research. And research to save $2 off of one thing. And you know, my wife's been buying Amazon overnight stuff. So four in the morning, the package drops off and I'm like, If we waited four days, it could have saved $1.75. But I'm not. I'm not frugal because I spend all the money, which is a really bad habit. But I saved a dollar or two here and there. So I guess that's the. That to look at this property. The one thing you're not going to know about it from the website is that xyz, right? We've had several people every time. How did you do that? Right. Those kinds of things. That's the long answer.

Yeah, that's one of the fun things. I mean, the question, of course, was originally just meant to be a little bit playful and learn a little bit more about somebody. But it's, it's. I've really spent a lot of time thinking about this dynamic that you just described is, you know, I overwork on time and attention to save a little bit over here, but I don't think twice over here.

Like, what are those lines you have to have. You do need to have an ongoing nurture. I'm kind of switching now from site into IDX because they do go hand in hand, or site into nurture, if you want to call it that. Real Scout is just the categories.

How did these rules even come to me in my head anyway? When you are investing time in learning, growing and developing, what are you doing? Or when you're investing time in resting, relaxing and recharging, what are you doing?

Latter half, just time with friends and family. First half is just a mix of I'm not reading as much as I should be. And I've got the best in the business, in my opinion. You have to be able to keep property in front of them. I don't care. This is a farming strategy, too. Don't care how clever your piece is, how clever you're. I literally am the one that buys every book that's mentioned anywhere. Then they just pile up. Cause they don't have time to read them.

Yeah. And I don't. See, that's my category of I'll just. I'll drop 22 bucks, like on someone's recommendation. I don't even know them that well.

But you know what? And I. I enjoy reading them, but I just don't have the. And I don't like audiobooks because I like listening to my sports talk. But second content is in your just sold postcard. And how engaging Your, you know, Prop 6090 or 1031 exchange flyer is the number one piece that's gonna get the phone to ring every single time is properly. Like, I like the tactical, you know, highlighting and underlining and bookmarking pages. So I don't do audiobooks. But then the other version is just reading about stuff online and. Or I learn by doing so. Again, like I mentioned earlier, give me a login and a password for whatever tool it is, let me figure it out myself, and let me learn about it myself, because it's the best way I can learn. Right. No matter how many times we try to reinvent this wheel, property gets the phone to ring. So whether it's a farming piece or drippy mail constantly with property, or it's a just listed property on Facebook or whatever it is, you've got to keep property in front of them. And real scout is the fast.

Yeah, yeah, I'm with you on books and audiobooks. Like, I read a ton of books. I'm reading a little bit less now than I have historically. And I struggle with audiobooks because it's just the way that I listen. I tend to listen to podcasts instead because it's, you know, 30 minutes to an hour and a half per. Whereas a book is me, like 18 hours. So by the time I get done with it, I have no idea what happened three or four or five weeks ago when I first started. Whereas I'll sit down and read a book cover to cover on an airplane.

Yeah. The problem too with audiobooks, in my opinion, is when you're listening to something, you're not fully invested. Like, how hard is it to sit there and just listen to something like you're Going to always find something to do and tinker with. Then you're not focusing when you're reading. You literally can't do anything else. So I think it's much easier to lose focus on an audiobook. Just best integration, too many tools to mention on what it does beyond the other IDX port and then you just don't retain the information.

Yeah, I'm with you on that. Chase, if someone wants to connect with you, where would you send people?

Sure. Well, my consulting site is consultwithchase.com that's super easy if you want to see the my, you know, real estate page and that side of the business. It's a number four real estate help.com and I mean Instagram, probably the easiest way and we can, we can take it from there, but it's at Chase Whitney, underscore re and yeah, love to connect and see how we can help each other out.

Cool. No matter where you are watching or listening to this episode, there is a description down below. All those links are right there. Reach out to Chase. By the way, great URL for your consulting business.

Oh, thank you.

Pretty so straightforward. But I was thinking about that for.

A while and I was like, all right, it's too easy. Portals and even the MLS for that matter. But those two do go hand in hand and I've got them very well integrated together.

Everyone's got some of this stuff in place and they're. And they're often wondering, is it the right stuff? Is it working the right way? What more could I add alongside it? These kinds of things. So I just wanted to like open up that conversation because, you know, when I, when I listen to podcasts, I'm not always listening for what is the exact right thing to do. It's. Am I thinking about it the right way? How is this person thinking about it? Oh, I never, you know, it's, you know, these kinds of things. Yeah. Cool. I appreciate you, Chase. Thanks so much for doing this and have a great rest of your afternoon. Awesome.

Thanks so much, Ethan. It was a pleasure.

Thanks for checking out this episode of Team os.

Get quick insights all the time by.

Checking out real estate team os on.

Instagram and on TikTok.

Essentially your version of, you know, it has everything I never knew I always wanted is my fun way of saying what you said about some of those features of agent finding.

But there's so many use cases to make these tools work for you. Right. And I mean on the whole IDX thing, right. On a, on a client facing thing, you know, you're at an open house and you overhear them talking about how their kids in daycare at XYZ street and they've got to be near, you know, Target for whatever the reason is. Well, those are things that Real Scout has access to that the MLS does not, nor does Redfin and Truly and all the other ones. So. Hey, just heard you, I overheard you talking about, you know, how important it is to be near your daycare and you're always a target in Starbucks. Well, let's get you on a tool that I have and I invest and I pay for, for my clients on their behalf to showcase properties that are within X distance from your daycare and show you commute times, but also highlight properties that are near Starbucks and near Costco and near Whole Foods. So that way when you're looking at properties online, you're contextualizing everything that you're seeing. Would that be okay with you? Great. What's your name and number? Like it just leads right into it and that's a benefit for them.

And really nicely done in demonstrating the idea that we discussed, you know, maybe 15, 20 minutes ago. It was really well, really well done as people reach out to you and like, hey, Chase, you know, so and so told me I should reach out to you because I've got this question. What are some common themes when people are reaching out to you with just big bucket here, tech questions, you know, what are some of the common themes that you're running into? I just want to like, characterize for people, like common themes and problems that people have in some of the ways that you think about those things.

Boy, that's an interesting question. I get a lot of, I keep hearing about X Tool and your name keeps coming up. What's so special about it? And then the nice thing is I give them real world examples of how we're using it in the business. Because the one thing we didn't talk about on the team structure is I'm very much in production. I am not a. I'm not out of production. I very much in the front lines. I'm out not outsourcing. I'm working less buyers and working mostly listings. But again, I'm at every appointment, every meeting. So I do have real world experience on all this stuff. But so, yeah, I've heard about xyz. Why is it so special? Or it's. I'm having trouble with what I have right now. What would you recommend I do to kind of fix this problem? And if they just come cold to me and say, hey, I want to talk about this. The first question I'll ask is, well, why do you want to leave the company you're already with? Like, what, what. What is? Cause. Because change is hard. And as much as I'd love to see them adopt my system because I just know they work, it's still hard to change. So is it really in your best interest to make this move? And if you do, will you benefit from, from what it gives you? But I, you know, a lot of solo agents, of course, small teams helped, some large teams, too. I just, I love sharing it because it works so well and I've gone through so many years of it not working. So now that it does, I'm just, I love chatting about it. And I'm very, I'm a, I'm a tinkerer. I don't give me the help articles. You give me a login and a password and I'll figure it out. That's, you know, I like doing all this stuff. All stuff myself.

You know, one of the things I became sensitive to, to about specifically for agents, you know, about a dozen years ago, I actually started selling and serving into the real estate community about the same time that you entered it properly yourself or in earnest yourself. And one of the things I became sensitive to right away is that a solo agent needs to be so good at so many different things and be responsible for it, either directly doing it or being, you know, the GC on that work, no matter how they're sourcing the solution. And a lot of people don't have your natural interest and passion for tinkering, experimenting. Is this better? Is this not better? And so I really appreciate you sharing all this with me. And of course, everyone who watches and listens, I'm going to share with people, or you're going to share with people ways that they can reach out to you and connect with you. But before we do that, I would love to ask you three pairs of closing questions. And the first is, what is your very favorite team to root for besides your own real estate team? Or what is the best team you've ever been a member of?

So I bleed red and gold. So I am a Niner, faithful through and through. So you're not going to get any other answer out of me than that. All the other sports and everything else is secondary. So it was a very painful early part of 2024 for me. So I'm getting back to getting ready for this year.

Yeah, it's still a solid roster. And I like.

Yeah, good roster.

Yeah. And As a Lions fan, I'm just gonna kind of like one up the pain of that. Because that second half of that, the.

One line I always love, I have the radio host I listen to on Sirius, Adam Schein. And he every time he talks about. Talks about the Lions, he always says, rebuilding since 1950. 57.

Exactly. It's so. Yeah, it's rough and exciting and fun. Anyway, what is one of your most frivolous purchases or what's a cheapskate habit you've held on to probably too long?

I buy too many frivolous things to even mention. But.

But the thing is, are there categories of these things?

Oh, boy. No, it's just crap. It's all crap.

Okay?

It's all crap. You don't need. Cheapskate habit is, I'll just research and research and research to save $2 off of one thing. And, you know, my wife's been buying Amazon overnight stuff. So four in the morning, the package drops off, and I'm like, If we waited four days, it could have saved $1.75. But I'm not. I'm not frugal because I spend all the money, which is a really bad habit. But I saved a dollar or two here and there. So I guess that's the. That's the long answer.

Yeah. This one of the fun things. I mean, the question, of course, was originally just meant to be a little bit playful and learn a little bit more about somebody, but it's, It's. I've really spent a lot of time thinking about this dynamic that you just described is, you know, I overwork on time and attention to save a little bit over here, but I don't think twice over here. Like, what are those lines? What are those categories? How did these rules even come to me in my head anyway? When you are investing time in learning, growing, and developing, what are you doing? Or when you're investing time in resting, relaxing, and recharging, what are you doing?

Latter half, just time with friends and family. First half is just a mix of I'm not reading as much as I should be, and I've got a. I literally am the one that buys every book that's mentioned anywhere. Then they just pile up because they don't have time to read them.

Yeah. And I don't see, that's my category of I'll just. I'll drop 22 bucks, like, on someone's recommendation. I don't even know them that well.

But you know what? And I, I enjoy reading them, but I just don't have. And I don't like audiobooks because I like listening to my sports talk. But secondly, like, I like the tactical, you know, highlighting and underlining and bookmarking pages.