The DIRECT Model for Agent Accountability with Koby Sway | Ep 026

The Briley team is the number one team in Nebraska. About four years ago, they took more of that SEAL team approach. About 10 agents each doing about $10 million. A fantastic business. But they've grown dramatically since then through 2022, 2023, pacing for more dramatic growth here in 2024. There are a number of reasons why, and you'll hear several of them in this episode, but certainly among them is bringing on a new general manager. And not just new to the team. He's new to the industry. I met Kobi Sway at a John Cheplak mastermind event. And when you hear him refer to John, which he does a few times in this conversation, he is referring to John Cheplak, who he's coached with. And you'll learn in this conversation again, a variety of things, but among them, what was going on with the team, one key problem and one key opportunity that led to bringing Kobe onto the team, why it made sense for him and for the Brileys. You'll also learn how they grew lead conversion from about 5% to over 20%. And you'll learn the first two hires that he made and how he interacts with those folks to get the most out of the agents to put them in their best position to win. But the key thing you are going to watch or listen for is the Direct feedback model. Direct D I R E C T is an acronym. It's a great method for engaging people, both agents and staff alike, other people in your life as well, to empower them to make the best decisions for themselves, to honor their own commitments that they're making to themselves. The Direct model is fantastic. You're going to love this conversation with Kobi Sway. No matter where your business is today or where you want to take it, you'll get there faster and more profitably with an operating system. Welcome to Team os, your guide to starting, growing and optimizing real estate team. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. For insights into growing and optimizing your real estate team, we're talking with Coby Sway. A few fun facts before we get going. He's only been in the real estate business for about four years. He serves as general manager of the Briley team, the number one team in Nebraska. And they've more than tripled annual production and agent count over the past few years. Thanks so much for talking Team OS today, Kobe.

Yeah, absolutely. Happy to be here. Appreciate the invite.

Yeah, we're going to get into all those things right off the top and a lot more. And to get Us going, I'm going to ask you the question I ask everybody at this point in the conversation which is what is a must have characteristic of a high performing team?

You have to be coachable, moldable and trainable. I think at the end of the day you've got to be open minded. A lot of people are close minded and think they know better or been there, done that. I look at professional athletes and they obviously perform at the highest level in the world and they continue to practice and hire coaches and continue to refine their skills. So I want to surround myself specifically around people that are going to continue to refine their skills.

Is that something you all are kind of screening for on, you know, as you're doing recruiting?

Yes, we're always up. So I kind of take a different approach when I'm recruiting. I'm not convincing them to join me. I'm not trying to sell them on our, I'm trying to actually talk them out of it. I'm trying to tell them all the negatives, all the reasons not to join, all the problems with real estate and then if they still stick around, there's probably some reason there. And then I ask specific coachable questions like would you be open and honest about feedback or how do you take somebody coming after you? Criticism? Like there's certain trigger words that I ask but we want to make sure we're working with the right people. But sometimes there's really good fakers. There's sometimes people are really good at interviews, right? And then they come in and you're like, I thought you were the hardest worker ever. You only hear once a week. So you do your best but we don't do a ton of tests, we don't do a ton of like questions up front. We don't have like that's just never worked for me because again you can go online and fake any personality test you want. So.

And I think too like in an interview situation, I mean not every personality is this way. But I think a lot of people want to be accepted. It's funny. Tell me, have you been in sales positions yourself over the years?

So my path has been corporate America. I worked at, AT&T, Verizon, Best Buy. I worked in mobile communication sales for 15 years. I've opened businesses, I've started businesses, I've hired, fired, trained. I've done just about anything. And of course I was a salesman at one point. So I think what I've learned to like your point is think back to me and actually what's funny is Adam and Stacy said, we don't know what you're gonna do. We don't know what your job's gonna be. We don't know about pay. Tell us what you want to do. And I was like, gosh, I don't know. So I just started creating this position. And so when I. When people ask, what do you do? I'm like, I don't know. I just. I tell people I'm the general manager, but I kind of do a little of everything. And I tried to surround myself with people to help me in this path.

Obviously, that's cool. How. What. What was. What were the Brileys looking for in bringing you on? It sounds like they. Obviously they. Here's what I would assume. They liked you, they knew you a bit through your wife. They respected you.

They all that either are like minded or someone that's going to challenge my thinking a little bit.

Yeah, agree. I also think from a sales perspective too, when you tell someone they can't have something, they kind of want it more. So this idea of, like, I don't. I don't know if you would be a good fit around here, all of a sudden the questions are like, no, no, I'm very coachable. I'm very moldable.

The psychology is crazy. You're right. I mean, it's. It's crazy because like you said, it's. Maybe it goes back to the instinct being a kid. And I have two little kids myself, and I know we were chatting. You have kids. Kids as well. But I think what I've learned is when you tell people they can't have something, then they want it that much more. Right. So that is a reverse psychology. When I meet with people is, no, hey, we're elite. I don't have a door open here. You can't get into this team. And they're like, well, why not? Why can't I get in? I'm like, well, we only want to work with the best of the best. Well, I think that's me, you know, versus the other way around. A lot of brokerages and teams are like, we'll take anybody. Are you alive? And that should scare the heck out of you. When they say, we'll take anybody, I'm like, we don't want to take anybody. We want to take the right people. And then to your point is people try to find a way to, like, say, like, you just said, oh, no, I am coachable. I am trainable. Like, they'll stop opening up. They'll open up to you. And then you'll say some negative things about their answers and they'll be like, oh, no, no, no, I'm not actually like that. I'm like, okay, well, you just said you were like, they're just looking for the right answer. Right. So I try to. I'm just super transparent. And through my interview methods, I've always learned that if you get to know the person and they're a good, morally sound, ethically person, we can teach all these skills. Any person can be a real estate agent. Any person. But you can't change somebody's moral, ethical, and the way they grew up, that's going to be impossible to change. So I just. I try to get the bare bones out of the way.

Yeah. Really good. I didn't expect that we'd have a recruiting conversation right off the top of that. And we may double back into it a little bit too. I've got. I've got a couple of zones I want to go into before we get into something I learned from. You like to talk about a little bit. But you already shared a little bit about your corporate background. But how did you become GM of the Briley team? Like, how did you find them? How did they find you? Like, what was going on for you and for them? That this was a good fit.

Yeah. So it's like a little fun story. Right? It always starts with a good little story. So I was working at AT&T. Like I said, I was a district manager. I ran 12 stores, and Covid hit. And I was like, I just. I didn't like the way that we had to do certain things and certain requirements and you gotta, you know. And again, ATT is a large company, and they said, we want these things done. And I was like, I don't agree with that. So I started to look elsewhere, and I thought maybe that was a sign from above. We should look for something else. My wife's actually been on the Briley team for 11 years. Going on 12 years. Yeah. So I've known Adam Briley, the team leader, for about 12 years. And he would make jokes throughout time for years, like, oh, you should come join.

You should come join.

You should come manage us. And I was like, hey, I'm managing 75, 100 people. Like, I'm looking for, you know, something else. I didn't understand the real estate game. And so Covid hit. No one was hiring to start. No one was getting back to me. I was constantly calling, texting, calling. I called every person I could think of. I was LinkedIn HR stalking people. And for some reason, Adam and his wife just kept coming back to me and saying, you should come around the team. And my wife and I were not on board. We had a lot of discussions, and next thing you know, my wife was like, you can join. As long as you don't manage me. We're gonna. I'll allow you to get in. And then, yeah, just fate is fate. Fate just kind of lined up, but for some reason, it just kept getting back to me. And actually, what's funny is Adam and Stacey said, we don't know what you're going to do. We don't know what your job's going to be. We don't know about pay. Tell us what you want to do. And I was like, gosh, I don't know. So I just started creating this position. And so when people ask, what do you do? I'm like, I don't know. I tell people I'm the general manager, but I kind of do a little of everything. And I've tried to surround myself with people to help me in this path.

Obviously, that's cool. What were the Brileys looking for in bringing you on? It sounds like they. Obviously they. Here's what I would assume. They liked you. They knew you a bit through your wife. They respected you. They knew enough about what you did and that you had run large teams of people before. I'm sure you had some numbers you could toss off in terms of, you know, what you accomplished as a group of people and as the leader of that group of people. But what was going on for them? Like, what. What did your stepping in allow them to do? I assume that they were seeking some totally release or leverage or something of their own.

Well, so they ran. And a lot of real estate, and you probably know this too, Ethan, but a lot of real estate teams know this caliber of a Navy SEAL team, right? So, like, what a Navy SEAL team is, they want basically every agent to produce in our market $10 million. So if you have 10 agents producing $10 million, you have $100 million team. Right. They have the Navy SEAL approach. And what. What they kept finding was when one or two people would leave, 20, 30% of your business would disappear, and they would have to try to find another Navy seal. And so two things happened. They learned that, like, the Navy SEAL approach was daunting and tough for Adam because he's in production, he's in sales. He doesn't have the training background and the knowledge background and the recruiting background and all the stuff I Learned from corporate America. He obviously understood real estate because he sells 30 to 40 million dollars a year in our market, which is massive, with our average sales price at the time being like 180,000. Now it's 400,000, but back in the day, it was 180,000. And so he was like, hey, this Navy SEAL thing is really drawing a lot of my attention and time, and I don't think I can do it. And the second thing is Zillow actually had the foresight to say, hey, we got this cool thing coming out called Zillow Flex, and we think you should have a team manager and a recruiter, some kind of figurehead, if you will, that'll come in and manage the agents, hold them accountable. And so he. He originally was like, hey, I don't. I don't know what this is going to turn into. He goes, I just. I don't want to get big. I want to keep Zillow happy. So two things kind of folded into that. Like I said, the Navy SEAL team was starting to bug him a little bit. And then he saw Zillow was like, hey, we want you to grow a little bit. So it kind of like, there was a need on his side, obviously, to two zones here.

What, when you joined the team, what was kind of team size, team structure, and then characterize the team a little bit as it is today, whether that's size, culture, structure, etc. Like, what was it? What is it today? And then we'll start closing some of those gaps on how you got there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think one of the things I first got in his team size. Let's go there. So we had about 10 to 12 people total at the organization.

So it was the Navy SEAL model at the time. And he wanted to escape that partly for his own purpose because it was frustrating and he wanted to continue producing, and partly because Zillow Flex created this opportunity to multiply the team totally well.

And he was a little bit stagnant. He was like, hey, We've been doing $100 million the last couple years. We don't have that pathway. And he goes, hey, you know what might be cool to do a mega team. And no one had anything like that in our area. So we had the Navy SEAL team, if you will. We had an admin or two, and we had an isa. And then I stepped in, and one of the. One of the first things that I did was I said, they said, this guy doesn't know anything about real estate. I don't know why he's talking to me. I don't know what he's doing. Like, he doesn't know anything. And so I. First thing I implemented was accountability. And 100% of the people were trying to get rid of me. They're like, this guy's holding me accountable. He's micromanaging me, he's telling me what to do. I still, I feel like a boss. I feel like an employee. Like, what's going on here? So that was like, oh, my gosh. So that was the first thing I implemented was accountability, because they told me, hey, we're the top team. We do well. Like, we weren't. We were. We teetered between number one and number two. But at the time they were like, we're great. We close a ton of. Have you seen our numbers? We're awesome. And I go, what's your conversion rate? And they're like, who cares? And I'm like, you guys, you're converting at 5%. You know, and fast forward to today. I convert Zillow over 20%. And not, not fake numbers. I'm not talking taking out cancels, wrong numbers. I'm talking legit. You bring it in 21%. And so fast forward today, we have roughly 45 real estate agents. We have a staff of about 12. We've got some people here locally and we have some people overseas that help us out. And we were doing about $100 million in production, about 300ish units a year. And then just last year, we did just shy of 1,000 units, and we were at a little over $300 million in business. And this year we're tracking right now for about 1400 units, maybe 1500. So it's crazy, the pathway, it'll be four years in July when I got here.

First of all, congratulations. Second, it sounds like it's been a fun journey for you and a good fit for the team. Yeah, And I'll just like high level. I think, I think I'm. I think I'm going to check a couple boxes here, but you can add some color or some details or any of the things that I missed. But, like, obviously the past couple few years haven't been the best or the easiest for an agent, for a brokerage or for a team. And yet you've, you know, multiplied these numbers dramatically. I think part of it is probably adding staff. Certainly part of it is a cat providing someone with a vision, someone who brings in some accountability. Certainly the leads and opportunities that come through Zillow Flex are helpful in it. What Are some of the other key components in dramatic. I mean, this is dramatic growth. What else has been going on the past few years?

So it's. It's a few things, right? We started a mortgage company, an insurance company, a title company. So we have services around the agents to help support them. And there were some paths there. There were some problems there. Agents didn't love that either, Right. Like, and a lot of people don't love change, right? And you got to make sure you're upfront with people. Like, this is the direction we' going in. So. So we have that. We also have a lot of agents in the community say, well, of course he's. He's quadrupled his business because he's added, you know, a zillion agents. And here's what I'll tell you. If they don't produce on our team, we don't. We ask them to leave. I don't. I'm not focused on the number of agents. We've had about 45 agents for about two and a half to three years. And we constantly are looking at who's on our team, who are the A players, who can we work with and who can we work out? And not in a bad way. I. My number one thing is I love termination. It sounds bad, but I love termination. And the reason why I love termination is because you're holding somebody back from being successful. And if you hold them in a position of fear or you're not, you're not helping them. An example is if I kept Ethan at my company and he wasn't selling and he didn't really like it, and I kept forcing him to make cold calls. I kept forcing him to come to the office. I kept forcing him to do the job. And he didn't love the position, right? Like, it's. I'm holding him back for his next successful venture. And then if. If you go to another company and you're unsuccessful, that's on me, because I didn't train you. And it's like, oh, well, Ethan, he's fine. I won't even bother him. I don't want to bug him, right? Like, I'll let him do him. A lot of managers go, I'll let Ethan do whatever he wants. Here's the deal. In my opinion, the saying is, you bring a horse to water, you can't get them to drink. I don't believe in that. I believe if you bring a horse to water, you need to convince them it's that good to drink. And that's where managers fall short, in my opinion. They go, I've done everything I can. Ethan's a bad person. And that's why 90% of real estate agents fail. Because the brokerages and the teams, they don't go above and beyond. They say, well, I did my part. And so one of the things we talked about that we met is the direct feedback model. I believe in a coaching mindset. I believe in. I don't tell people what to do. I don't hold them accountable. I don't yell at them. I don't get upset with them. I just say, ethan, what is it you'd like to earn? Maybe, where do you want to take your business in a few years? And then what is it that you can do with this income? You know? And you might tell me, you want to buy a car or, you know, a graduation. You want to pay for graduation or Disney World or whatever it may be. Maybe it's unlocking a house. But I try to figure out what it is that you truly want to do. And we go very, very deep on the why. The further I go down on the why, the more successful real estate agents will be because, let's be honest, you don't want to make cold calls. You don't want to meet strangers, you don't want to get rejected, and you don't want to do any of that stuff. So you have to make sure your why outweighs that. Because, again, let's be honest, you could get a job for 70, $80,000 somewhere and not have the stress real estate brings on. So we got to make sure that you enjoy your pathway along the way, along the path, along the journey. And that's something that was very unique. When I started a couple of years ago, the first thing the agent said was, this guy is crazy. He makes me do all these things. And I said, you'll have more time back in your day. You'll be more organized, you'll meet less clients. If you use the CRM, you'll be better off if you made a few more calls or you don't need more leads. You need to work your current leads. So there's a lot there, Ethan. Obviously, you know, there's a lot that goes into it, but I think. I think fundamentally, your number one thing, and a lot of people don't understand this, the number one thing is not leads. It's not clients. It's not your database, it's not your tech, it's not your systems. I Learned this from AT&T. The person at the AT&T store is who they think of when they leave the company. So if I'm rude or I'm not listening or I'm a bad person or I say a cuss word, that's what you think of AT&T. So it's the same with my team. If somebody interacts with one of my real estate agents, they think that's how the Briley team is. My number one resource is my real estate agents and my employees. So they've got to be my number one focus. And we've really made that a culture shift at our team for the last four years when I got in the training and systems. And Adam has built one of the best companies I've ever seen. And he's the smartest guy you'll ever talk to. So I never take away from what he does because he is absolutely amazing. And it's not just me, it's my whole team. It's everyone around me, obviously. But to change the culture from this is how it's going to work to. You know what, Ethan, I want to know what your journey is. And then Kobe, what is your journey? And then Adrian and figuring out how can I help every single person that I work with unlock their journey. And sometimes that's financial freedom, sometimes that's wealth, sometimes it's more time with their family. Whatever it is, it's not more sales. People will leave with splits. Splits don't matter. They want to. They was 85 or 90% of the time people leave because of their boss and their culture. It's 10 to maybe 12% of the time they leave because of money. So I try to solve the culture problem. So I know that was a lot, Ethan, but yeah, that was a lot.

And honestly, like I said, I've been actively listening. For example, for example, you triggered for me the idea that our customer facing employees, whether we're in a real estate business or any other business, our customer facing employees literally are the brand to each person they interact with. And so you catch someone on a bad day, you catch someone who has a bad habit and all of a sudden it's not this one rep is that way, it's this brand is that way. It's like it's super, super critical. And so I love that you're addressing it from a cultural perspect and also too, like just essentially, essentially the theme throughout what you shared there is motivation. You can't infuse the motivation, you can't carrot and stick the motivation, you can't drive the motivation. They have to want things for themselves. I do want to get into some of, like the guts of, you know, what is the tech? What are some of the process, what are some of the approaches to intentional cultural shift, Specifically on behalf of someone who knows that it needs to change because they haven't been intentional about culture. Therefore the culture has created itself. You haven't had much to say about it or much direct intentional influence on it. Therefore, it is this thing that you don't want it to be. So how do we start influencing it? Not that that was a problem you were facing, but this idea of intentionally shifting the culture. But I definitely want to spend a couple more minutes in the direct method.

Yeah.

Or the direct feedback method. For folks who are watching or listening down below, there's a description. If you're in your podcast app, there's a description. If you're in YouTube, there's a. See more. If you're@realestateteam o.com it's right there in the post. And we write all these up and you can see a whole bunch of details in the audio and the video@realestateteamos.com for every one of these episodes. And I say all that because direct is an acronym and I'm not going to read what all the words mean right now. If you know them all off the top of your head, Kobe, feel free to say them. But I'm going to type up what the acronym stands for down below. So if you're listening, you don't need to write it down unless you really want to. It's already down below in the description. And with that, Kobe, give us a go at the direct feedback method and feel free to start wherever you can start high level, too. Like this idea that I've been coached. Let's say this. I'm a real estate agent. I've brought an assistant and two buyer's agents alongside me. I've got this early stage of a team. I've been coached, and by that I mean I've gone to a coach's annual event and maybe a smaller regional event. I was coached for six months and then my schedule got busy or it seemed expensive or whatever, so I stopped coaching because I thought I had everything. Therefore, I'm prepared to coach these people that I, you know, that are entrusting their career to me. Pick that up there. Take it wherever you are.

Yeah, no, that's great. I think it's. And that's where a lot of teams exist, right? Like a real estate agent thinks they're a coach and a Trainer. And like, why do we go to college? We learn from somebody who's literally been educated to be a professor. We're not teachers, right? Like, I try to say that to team leaders and brokers all the time. You're not teachers. Stop pretending to be a teacher. That's where, like, I come in normally. And it's so. It's a lot easier. So just so you know, direct is something that AT&T spent a lot, I mean, over a billion dollars developing. And they changed their entire company to this model. And it's some of the coolest things that I've ever seen. And at first you're like, what is that? What are you even talking about? But so when I ask Ethan a question and I say, you know, hey, let's just say, for example, hey, Ethan, do you use follow up boss? No. Okay, well, why not? Oh, I don't like it. Okay, well, I'm telling Ethan, go use follow boss. Right? Like, how productive is that? Hey, Ethan, like, I know you have two people that you're bringing with you and you want to coach them, right? Like, just tell them what to do. The problem is we're not me and you aren't the same. Me and Adam aren't the same. No one is like you. A lot of team leaders, they get upset and they go, why don't they just do what I do? Well, if they did, they'd start their own team. It's that simple. You wouldn't have a team of agents because they're not you and everybody thinks differently. But just to know, here's the direct model. Quick, develop rapport. Simple. Asking questions. Ask them about their day. Indicate. Focus. I want to talk to you specifically today, Ethan, about X. Keep it simple. I want to talk to you specifically about follow up boss or your two employees you're bringing on or your open house strategy. Simple. And then reinforce and recognize. You want to recognize the positivity or something great about them, right? Like, Ethan, I love that you're organized. I love that you're ambitious. I love you bringing on these two people. People always want compliments. And then what I've learned from psychology is people will listen when you say a positive thing and then you engage in self discovery, which is the number one step missed by every human being at every level, which is questions. You want to be the question master. So the difference with that model, that coaching method is I ask questions. Why don't you use follow up boss? Do you see any benefits in using follow up boss? And then sometimes if I'm not getting the certain answers that I want. And I did this on stage is I will flip the script and I will use examples and a lot of people miss out on this. But so if you're getting frustrated, you're asking them questions and again, let's just keep it simple. They don't want to use follow up boss. I mean everybody struggles with some CRM at some point and instead of telling them to use it, ask them better questions. So like an example is. Well, let me ask you this. Do you know everybody's cell phone number? Oh no, I don't do. I don't know that. They're on my contacts. Oh, so your contacts are saved and your phone number? Oh yeah, yeah. Okay, well how about your calendar? Do you ever use your calendar? Oh yeah, I use my iPhone calendar. Oh, of course. So what you do is you get them to start agreeing with you on certain things. Right, that makes sense technology wise. Let's say follow up boss. Do you think there's benefit into follow up boss? Because you wouldn't have to keep track of everything. There's like a task or a to do or is there ever times, Ethan, where you're traveling in the car and you have a conversation with somebody and you forgot what you talked about? Well, imagine if that call was recorded and it was in follow boss you could go and listen to later. It's kind of like remembering your contacts, Ethan. So what I'm doing is I'm relating things to the person so they believe me, they listen to me and I'm not telling them what to do. So engage in self discovery is massive. Ask better questions. And John says it, you play offense, not defense. Most team leaders play defense. Like, oh, we should use follow up boss. Oh well, I mean I don't use follow up boss. This doesn't work, this doesn't work, this doesn't work. And then they start saying all these negative things. So if I get ahead of the conversation, let's say Ethan wants to bring on two people. Instead of saying, Ethan, you're not equipped to bring on two people, I might ask you, well, what training are you going to put them through? How often are you going to coach them? What are you going to talk about? And then I start getting Ethan to start thinking like, well, I just haven't thought about that. I don't. And then the next step is create a plan cause for gap, which is the second most important step, which is figure out what got in the way. And normally it's a couple things, but normally it's a lack of training which is we could fix. Right? Oh, I don't understand follow up boss. I don't have it on my phone or Ethan says, well you know, I, I never really thought about the training with the two people. I was just going to wing it. I was going to have them drive around with me for six days and just follow me around. Oh, is that a great method? What if you get sick? Right? Like what if one of them isn't very good visually and one is more like analytical or one needs right like so to circle back on the cost for gap is really figure out not just maybe it's education which you can help training but sometimes they don't see value in it. So I could tell you till I'm blue in the face, Ethan, don't start a team or use follow up boss or else like I can threaten, like you mentioned with carrots and sticks, I can beat people with bats, I can beat people down when I'm not there but they won't do it when I'm not looking. So I need them to understand what it is I want them to do when I'm not around. And then the next step is like I said, create a plan. Right. It sounds pretty simple. So like you might develop a plan, Ethan, you're going to do these conversations on these days. You're going to do this and this. The simpler the better. Most teams, team leaders, excuse me, or managers, they over complicated. They come up with like do these 900 it's guys focus on two or three things and then let's do another conversation in three weeks and then the last one is task.

Well, sorry, really quickly go ahead. I mean that just goes back to indicate focus.

Right.

So that the plan needs to be very specific to the focus of the conversation.

Exactly.

Like Here are the 18 things you need to fix. Talk about two of them and they're related.

Exactly.

So, so, so for folks watching and listening that's D I R E C. C was create a plan or cost for gap. And then now we're at the final.

One which is T. And that is timeline, that is tweak and test. So that's literally as it sounds. All right, like so let's just go back to your example. You're bringing on two people. I might specifically only talk to you about training.

Right.

Just training. Or I might specifically talk about a CRM or an app or whatever. Keep it simple. But the test tweet timeline is we're going to start today and we're going to start looking at it. And then in seven days, we're going to look at it. Here's what it looks like. It's this simple. Let's just use again something simple. So, hey, I want to talk to you specifically about Follow up boss. And let's say I figured out that you didn't have the app and you didn't see value in it, but now all of a sudden you see how this could help you save more time. Because that's what people want, time or money. So normally it's time. So I'm going to save you more time, Ethan. Okay, perfect. So now what I want to do is, is it. Okay, Ethan, let me ask you this question. If you were driving on the wrong side of the road and I saw you, if I didn't stop you, would that make me a bad person? Ask them that question and watch what they say. They're going to say, what are you talking about? Okay, Ethan, let me do this. You entrusted me with your career. Is it okay with you if I check in with you in a week and see if you're using follow up boss? If I ask that question, they're gonna be like, oh, well, yeah. I mean, if I'm driving down the wrong side of the road, like, why wouldn't I want you to help me? That's what I'm here for, Ethan. I want to help you be successful. I don't want you to do anything wrong. I'm not a micromanager. Right. But I want. Now, we discovered during this self discovery, we discovered that you see the value. And follow up, boss. It can get you more deals. It can get you more time with your kids. So now with the timeline and the task and the tweak, I'm gonna follow up with you in a week. If you're not using it, what should we do? And I ask them. Everything is ask. I don't tell them anything. So you develop the plan. You develop. So the creative plan is them, not you. And managers and leaders need to stop talking. And then the cause for Gap, don't talk. Tell them their issues. And then the timeline is, let's go. And just imagine the conversation, though, Ethan, if I said, hey, if, if, are you cool with me checking in? Because part of my job is I want you to succeed. I know you want to go to Disney World. I know you want you to buy your first house, and I know you've got your son's graduation this year. Shame on Kobe. If I let all three of those things not happen, I mean, shame on me, right? So I don't want that to happen. We're both in it to win. I'm going to check in with you in seven days. If you're not using follow up boss, what should I do? Oh, well, I don't know. Okay, well, let me ask you this, Ethan. Can you not afford to. Or excuse me, can you afford to tell your daughter you're not going to Disney World? Can you look at your daughter in the face and say you're not going to pay for the graduation? Well, no, I can't do that. Okay, cool. So let's do this in seven days. If you're not doing it, then let's look at those three whys and let's figure out what you can't do. Well, I don't want to do that. Perfect. Let's do the plan.

Awesome. Okay, so I know someone just followed all of the aspects of direct. You broke that down really nicely. I like that you carried one example all the way through it. And I also, you know, I like that I was a part of it, even though I wasn't on, like, the winning side of it.

Yeah.

But so I. Someone is going to go again, look at the description, reread these things. Maybe you have back buttons in. In the YouTube app and in your podcast app for a reason if you want to hear all of that again and follow along with the visual of the steps on the screen at the same time. But then someone's going to take this and they're going to say, gosh, I love this. This makes so much sense. I do need to be better at this, that listening or watching to this episode was so timely for me. And then they're going to go practice it and they're going to struggle a little bit because it's, you know, there's a new aspect to some of this stuff. Talk a little bit about the adoption of it. Like, maybe from your own experience as you've taught this to other people who are implementing it. Like, what can someone expect in terms of, like, the curve of doing this habitually doing it intentionally and doing it well and working through some of the awkward aspects of it? I have a feeling someone's going to feel like, oh, I'm testing this thing out on somebody, and I don't want to tell them I'm testing it out on them. And therefore I'm going to do it awkwardly, and then I'm going to feel like it doesn't work for me. And I know that this can work for anyone, and I know that this works outside of coaching conversations. You can do this in real life all the time with a lot of different people.

You can do it with anybody and everybody.

Yeah, yeah. Coach somebody up on the curve that they're going to go through getting kind of comfortable and confident in executing a conversation this way.

Absolutely. So to give perspective, let's look at AT&T. It took them over five years. Five years to get right. Now your team might be two people. Five people, 20 people. Right. Like AT&T had thousands of people. So are we perfect at it today? No. I mean, we're three and a half, four years I've been here. It doesn't mean I've done it all four years. But it's just like any skill. Right. Like the biggest thing to ask somebody is how good are you at showing an open house? Well, great. Okay. How many times did you. Were you bad at it? How many cold calls have you made? How many? So just related to that, again, you're not going to be great at cold calling for sale by owners, but if you've done it a thousand times, you'll get better. So don't give up too easily. Most of the time you're going to find this transformation is going to take you at least a year or two. And you need to get your whole company around it. You need to get your mindset around it. I need to stop telling people and asking them because like you said, I can't motivate anybody, but I can directly tie their actions to the behaviors and outcomes I want. And I can't. It's not tricking them, but I can convince them that by using follow up boss or cold calling or open houses or falling upon leads or whatever you're coaching them on will directly impact their success. But yeah, I would say a year or two. And then like I said, you need to get your whole company wrapped around it. Not. The problem is sometimes there's a team that I know that has three team leaders. The problem is one team leader is very aggressive, one team leader is coddling and nice and helpful, and then the other one's doing the direct model. Let's say that doesn't work. You've all got to buy into it because as soon as somebody has an uncomfortable conversation, they're going to run to the coddler or they're going to run to the other person. So it is awkward. It is strange. It's just like cold calling or door knocking. It's just like any real estate transaction. It's hard at first.

How did you communicate to agents and I'm just kind of doubling back to where I can imagine this guy that's never been in real estate before is coming in and he's. Now he's talking to me about what I'm doing and what I'm not doing. What is the heck does this guy know? And now you're implementing this method for. For a leader who's going to adopt this and wants to, A, make it effective, but B, not lose anyone in the process and see, kind of communicate. You and I have been working this way and we've been having these accountability conversations have been a little bit loose or scattered or not as specific or constructive. I'm going to start talking to you differently now. How do you advise someone to, like, communicate to the agent that we're going to be doing these conversations a little bit differently going forward?

Yeah, well, that's a good question. So here's, here's something to think about, right? Like, accountability is negative. People think account, and that's why they're used to managers and leaders don't do it effectively. Accountability is. I'm coming down on you, right? So it's, that's where I always start with all my people, is what do you think? And just ask them, what do you think about accountability? What are your first things that come to your mind? So I just asked them and they said, well, it's negative. It's it. And just get all the stuff out there. Okay? Oh, no, I'm glad you shared that, Ethan. Absolutely. I completely agree with you. And you know what? I worked with somebody that was like that. And so get it out. Get it out on the table. Just start asking them what accountability looks like. Because you don't, you don't want to use that word if they're nervous about it, right? So, like, if someone's like, oh, no, and they bring all these negative things, okay, well, I don't want to hold you accountable to that definition. What I would like to do is I would like to help you grow your brand or I would like you to help to earn more money. So, like, I'm just very transparent. I just say, hey, you know what? My only job is to earn you more money. If I don't produce for you, I'll get terminated. How's that? So if you're not here doing anything successfully, Ethan, then my job is invaluable. I shouldn't be here. So let's do this. Let's work on how I can personally help you. And that's the conversation I had three years ago with all these people. I'm not here to tell you what to do. I'm not here to push you. I'm not here to yell at you. I'm not here to do any of those things. The only thing I'm here to do is I want to figure out all your whys and then what it is. Those things, whatever that list is, and they're all different. What are the behaviors and actions that lead to you getting to where you want to go. And if I can help you along that path, make it a shorter path, make it a faster path, make it a more effective whatever it is, I'm going to do that. So that's where I'd start. Accountability and tell them what you're going to change, what you're going into. And it can be a fluid conversation. You're not going to be great right away. And it's like, it could be a simple one. It could be like, hey, you know what? I don't even really know. Why are you in real estate right now? Like, I'm so sorry. I've been, I've been harassing you on and off for a year and yelling at you and you've been yelling at me and right. Like, whatever. Why do you do this job? Like, just. And then go deeper and deeper and deeper. John says it all the time. We're high level leaders. So we're like, oh, I want to make a hundred grand. Okay, I did my job. You want to make 100 grand?

No, no.

People don't do anything with money. People want things, they want experiences, they want work, life, whatever it is. So it's trying to solve those. But that's the method I would take, Ethan, is like I said up front, tell them what you're doing. And they don't even know it. So you're not like, hey, I'm going to this coaching model in three years, Ethan. Right? You just start somewhere and you develop that curve and then at some point you look back and you go, hey, you know what, Ethan? It's kind of weird is, do you remember six months ago I used to tell you what to do? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I don't tell you what to do. You literally are doing it. And all I do is call you and ask you about your day. And people are like, I didn't even know you were doing that. So people are shocked by it. And if anybody wants to, you can throw my email address. I would share my. I've got a PowerPoint presentation I've created that breaks down each step I'D be happy to share it with anybody that emailed me too.

Cool. So question for you. I'm doubling back now. You mentioned 5% lead conversion, 21% lead conversion. I assume that this was part of it, but I also assume that this wasn't all of it. What else have you implemented over the past few years in support of agents and keeping them focused and efficient and productive to enable that type of lead conversion?

Yeah, it's not just, it's not just talking to them. Right. Like you can't just talk to them. It's developing. We've went into new CRMs that are a lot better for real estate agents. We've developed more training, more one on ones and they weren't getting that before. More face to face conversations, faster, quicker, more masterminds. I think at the end of the day, if I get, if I am hearing something that somebody is doing, right, let's say I'm talking to another team leader and they're like, hey, I'm doing this, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. I bring it to my team immediately. I have a weekly team meeting. So one of the things I learned a while ago was if I send a video to a client, a video, a selfie, they're more likely to show up. So I rolled it to the team. So again, it's a few things. It's the CRM, it's some of the tech, it's the one on ones, it's the weekly meetings. Right. Like there's a lot that goes into that. It's not just combos, like, oh, Ethan, what do you want to do? I want to make a bunch of money and go to Disney World. Okay, cool. Make a bunch of cold calls. Good luck. We constantly refine our templates for calling our CRM, who's using it. And again, we constantly look at what can I change and I constantly look at what can I make better for my realtors. Everything I do is to better the realtors. Not my pocketbook, not my end, not none of that. It's. If it doesn't make sense to help the agent, I'm not going to do it. So. But there's a lot in there, Ethan.

Obviously staff positions. It sounds like there was not much staff when you joined.

Yeah.

What were some of the first key like as you came in and assessed the situation, what are a couple of people and things you put into place in service of agents that you're like, gosh, I. This is the next, definitely the next thing we need.

Absolutely. So one of the first people I added was it's kind of funny because Zillow suggested we add somebody called a funnel manager. And literally it's somebody that sits in the leads and they keep track of the number of leads each agent has. They keep track of follow up, right. How many calls, texts, what's the conversations. And then the last thing is like, are we updating slash keeping up with the client? Right. Like we got the lead but like what are we doing with them? So that was probably the first. One of the first hires I added was a funnel manager. We don't call them now, they're called a sales operations manager. But so they do onboarding and training and systems and lead sweeps. Right. So a lead sweep is they look at your pipeline, they go through it and they go, Ethan, tell me about these people. I don't know anything about them. I'm going to take them. Right. You have too many people. That was a huge struggle. Most real estate agents want all thousands and thousands of leads, but you don't need thousands of leads. That was my first struggle was I hired this person. Her name's Adrian. She's my Ying to my Yang. She's so good. But one of the first things was we realized is we're giving the agents too many leads and they are cherry picking and they're not working improperly and they're dying in the window or in the back of the CRM. Right. So that was our first person and now the position's evolved a ton, immensely. But that lead funnel manager, slash person looking at what's going on is game changer. Anybody I ever share that with have found success and that's simple and easy and you can even have a VA do that so it doesn't have to be expensive. So that was my first position. And then the next position I slowly realized was we needed, we needed a mentor program which we tried other things and then we hired a team coach slash team manager or a sales manager. So that was the next hire. Obviously we brought on, we had an ISA and an admin. I brought on more admin and more ISAs obviously as well. And then it's just refining the position. Like John says all the time that people want these, the best of everything, like build it and then they'll come. The problem is it's never going to be right. Like it don't get consumed with some of these little things. Like I've got the best tech and I've got the best this, I got the best this, that doesn't none of that actually matters because people want to work with people. So when I interview somebody, I go, ethan, we run the number one team in the state. I've got a sales manager. I've got this, I've got this, I've got this, I've got this. I go, but you know what we don't have? We don't have you. And I promise you, you're going to find a way to break some of our systems, break some of our tech, not love some of the things that we do. And this is a growing business. And I promise you, I'll continue to change it, refine it, and I'll make it better every single week. You're on my team, but I don't have all my stuff together. We might sell a thousand homes this year, but we don't have everything together. So there's a lot of people listening to this think, oh, he's got everything together. That's a lie. I have plenty of holes in my business, too.

Best in having all the holes plugged. Both of those are temporary. This is a constant growth effort. It's a constant surveying and testing and ideating, trying things, pulling things back when they don't work, et cetera. I love that idea of essentially a funnel manager to kind of get in there and see what's going on. And then I would assume that I just made this image up in my head. But I would assume that, you know, Adrian and your sales manager and you are part of, like an ongoing feedback loop and that Adrian is sharing observations that can be turned into training that's delivered in group and maybe even in small group or one on one or in targeted banners. I would also assume that themes that we see across, you know, these 10 agents can be directed at those 10 agents. So we're not like bothering everyone with training. That's not relevant. Talk a little bit about what the communication and cadence looks like. Because the key isn't just hiring people and saying, you're now responsible for this and checking in and saying, how is this going? And they tell you how it's going. It's creating these feedback loops so that everyone is learning from everyone else and then giving that information to the right people. What does that look like for you?

Yeah, so. Good question. Yes. Everything you were saying. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Right. Like it's. We look at the database, we're sweeping it, and we see these 10 people. Let's coach these 10 people specifically on what they're not doing. Well. And there's obviously patterns. We know this. There's tons of patterns. I love to bring on new realtors with zero experience because there's no bad habits. But you said it right there. And feedback loops was the number one thing that was missing was so many people are like, all right, Ethan, go do this, go do that, go do this, go do that, go do this. And then there's no like follow back up. And that's what we're missing is the follow up piece, if you will, or closing the loop, right? So we create this loop and then it's not closed. So what we do is we meet as a team, a leadership team, if you will. And we're constantly like, okay, we Talked to this 10 people last week about this. What is the next step? Or do we have to follow up or do we have to close it? Maybe we set up a follow up meeting so it's, you don't have to train more. You actually can train less if you close the loops. So if you say you're gonna follow up with somebody or deliver something instead of like forgetting, right, with the trio that we have, me, my sales coach, Janelle and Adrian, now we're not forgetting anything because we're constantly looking at, okay, well with these 10 people, excuse me, we did this with this person, we're working on this, with this. So each group, team, individual, click, whatever, they're all at different phases. And so we focus specifically on those areas. But we still like doing a lot of one on ones, of course, because people don't want to just be group coached. And then the feedback loop, like you said, is massive. So we're constantly looking at what it is that we are throwing out of the world and then how. For example, I'll keep it simple on this one. We have a program, a lead system called Fellow, which is a fantastic product. We rolled it out there, we said it's got a thousand reasons to use it. But the problem is, have we done a follow up training? Have we checked to see if they've logged in? Have we checked if they're using it? And what you're going to find is they haven't logged in, they're not using it. Three people use it out of 50, right? So what we need to do is we need to say, all right, let's do this, we've rolled it out. Now step two is the benefits. Or maybe step two is let's talk about a timeline. Hey, we want everybody to be logged in by Tuesday, by Wednesday, we're going to reach out to you. If you're not done by Wednesday, we're going to have a one on one on Thursday. So it's closing those loops actually earn you so much more time as well.

So.

I'm glad you asked that.

Yeah. Good. That's fantastic. Okay. With only a handful of minutes left, I would love to know from you about 4ish years in, I'm ballparking now, what, what surprise, what has surprised you about the real estate industry or even the real estate experience from an agent perspective or from a client perspective? You know, now that, now that you're, you know, steeped in it, you've broken it down, you've added pieces to it, you've made people more productive, you know, now, now that you're into it, like what's, what's a lot different about it than you expected or what's exactly as you expected it?

Well, real estate agents want it, want it like they watch a selling sunset or they're watching Netflix or HGTV or they look on Instagram, they want to take pictures, they want to do cool stuff, right? Like they want flexibility and freedom. They want that. So if I continue to put pressure on them to perform, that'll make them crack and they'll disappear. So what I kind of, what I thought was real estate agents were again wanting to do all these cool, amazing things, but didn't want to do the work. Real estate agents will do the work and you've gotta, you gotta follow up with them and help them unlock their dreams. So like a big misconception that I found with real estate agents is there's some of the hardest working people out there. They take a stress level. Like you don't, you can't imagine they're taking calls at midnight at 4am they.

Are freaked out people.

Yeah. And they're like, you know, you think of divorce or marriage or kids or losing kids or, I mean, all the things that affect a home is crazy and the emotions run so high. So I have a massive level of respect. When I first started four years ago, I was like, man, they don't, they don't do anything. They just get paid a ton, right? Like I watch TV shows, they don't do anything. But it's, they work extremely hard. They're some of the hardest working people out there. And then the other thing, the last thing I'll say is they also are some of the most creative people that I've ever seen. They're really starting their own companies and you're partnering with these people along the journey and they have such great mindsets compared to a Lot of other companies, and I've worked at a lot of other companies. But the mindset, the willingness to, like, man, I'm starting a business. And they have such big hearts. And most people that jump into real estate actually want to help people. They're not there for the money. You'd be surprised. Less than 5% of real estate agents actually really care about the money. So it's a big misconception out there that they're just making a ton of money and that's all they're in it for.

Yeah, really good. And it's your job to support them, put their and put them in their best positions to win. Before I get to my three closers, one more question for you. What's ahead for you? I mean, you mentioned how you're pacing here almost midway through 2024 for more dramatic growth this year. What's ahead for you in the next 12 to 24 months, either you personally or for the team by way of your thoughts and efforts and work.

So I think what I've another thing that's I'm kind of a sick person because I don't like, I change, I change my goals, right? So, like, I'm very big on goals and I want someone to have a goal. But sick about me is I'm never happy, I'm never satisfied, which is I can constantly moving the goal post, which drives people crazy. But that's why I'm successful at what I do, right? Like, my goal was to get to 1,000 units and to get to 50 realtors. I need to get to now 250 real estate agents. I need to do $1 billion in transactions a year. And I've got my other businesses. I've mentioned to you that we need to continue to push and get better. But at the end of the day, none of that matters because I need to make sure I've got one agent on the team. And what that matters to them is there are certain things they want to do. Like I mentioned earlier, let's say it's a graduation. Let's say it's something for their kids in Disney World. Whatever I have to deliver for that, I don't care. They don't care about what my goals are. Nobody cares. Think about, like, as an employee, you don't care what the company wants to do. So I want to stay focused on my people, and I want to make sure I'm continuing to refine their skills, make them better, get them more time back in the day, maybe unlock wealth, maybe send them on trips Right. Like that's what I'm focused on. But that's my number one focus. My number two focus is I want to get to a billion 250 real estate agents and I want to make sure we're only running the absolute powerhouse A players. And the last thing I'll say on that is, and you know what? An A player is not a check the box. What's cool about my team is I've got 45 different personalities. They're all so unique and different. I don't have an avatar I'm looking for. I'm looking for really anybody, as long as they're willing to be coachable and trainable.

I love it. You tied it straight back to the opening response. That's fantastic. Well, I wish you could. Continued success now. I have so many zones that we could get into. Maybe we'll do it on another episode. Including how do you get to a billion? I assume that might involve market expansion. We didn't talk at all about the ancillary businesses. I think that's another great topic. But for the sake of this one, Kobe first. Thank you. Second, three fund closers for you. What is your very favorite team to root for besides the Briley team? Or what is the best team you've ever been a member of? Besides the Briley team?

I would have to say the Lakers. The LA Lakers I've actually rooted for. And I kind of. I literally go crazy about it. Obviously my name's Kobe, right. I grew up with Kobe Bryant. So it's hard to not root for somebody like that.

Yeah. That's awesome. By the way, two fun facts. One, I. I had Tim Grover on this show many episodes back and he coached, of course, Jordan and Kobe. Two, as I do my prep docs for these interviews and things, little peek behind the curtain for what people who are watching and listening. I kept typing your name, Kobe. Correct it for the same. That's so funny. What is one of your most frivolous purchases or what's a cheapskate habit you've held onto for years?

So I grew up with not a lot of money and I don't have a lot of money today. I like to live like I have no money. What's something interesting about me is I still do this to this day. When I go to a restaurant, I look at the lowest priced item and I try to find. Honestly, I try to find the lowest price item and I usually eat the lowest price item on any menu. It's something weird. I've always done and it's kind of unique, but I don't go to a restaurant, buy the most expensive. I'm always the cheapest. So I'm a cheap date.

Yeah. That's good. And you're always up for someone who wants to take you out to lunch or dinner.

Of course. Absolutely.

Right. Last one. What does it look like for you to invest your time in learning, growing, and developing? Or what does it look like for you, Kobe, to invest your time in resting, relaxing, and recharging?

It's tough because. Right. If you're not focusing on your mind, your body, your health. Right. Like, you're gonna get burnt out. But I think what one of the things that I've also learned is I want to continue to push my limits to reading more books, educating myself. I mean, I surround myself with people that are smarter than me. Sometimes they're behind. It doesn't matter. Every person you interact with has a skill or a superpower or something. They're doing well. I mean, I've met with a team that literally did 50 units, and they taught me the most valuable lesson. And I learned this from somebody a long time ago when I worked at a grocery store. And I tried finding him and telling him that he changed my life, but he said it doesn't matter what position they do at a grocery store. It all matters at the end of the day. So I've taken that my whole life. And so I constantly. I challenge myself with books and podcasts and surround myself with the best and the worst, and you can learn something from everybody. And like you said, Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan, they constantly were trying to work, and they're the best basketball players in the world, and they literally went in and just continued to refine their skills. And that's what separates, let's say, great from elite, is that constant refine, which is a good habit and a bad habit, because you're constantly, like, pushing yourself.

But awesome. Yeah, it's. I mean, you made me think of two words there, and they're both titles of Tim Grover's books, relentless and winning. So this has been awesome. If someone has gotten to this point, nearly an hour in with us, they may want to learn more about you or about the Briley team. Where would you send someone to follow up and connect on this?

Somebody can check me out on Instagram, Facebook, and then also I'll share my email address so you can sync up with me. I'm very transparent. I talk to people all over the country all the time. Like you. I started somewhere 4 years ago I called somebody on the whim and go, I don't know what I'm doing. Can you help me? I have zero problem with anybody reaching out. Ever.

Awesome. All the details are down below in the description, in the podcast app, or in YouTube or in the post@realestateteamos.com Kobe, you're awesome. I'm so glad we connected. I hope you have a great rest of your day.

You too, Ethan. Thank you.

Thanks for checking out this episode of Team OS. For email exclusive insights every week, sign up at realestateteamos.com.