Content That Connects Starts With This One Question

If there's one mindset that changed how I approached my creative career, it's that of a product manager. And if my YouTube channel, if my podcast, if my coaching are all different products, they're all hired to do different things for. For me and for my audience. And thinking of each of these as individual products helps you get clarity on what to talk about, who it's for and what you're trying to actually accomplish with helping people transform. I loved today's conversation with guest Diana Ordonez because she's very authentic. She has the experience of being a product manager, but we get into the deeper levels of why we do what we do and how it needs to be aligned with our values and how it has to empathize with other people if we're going to be successful. So I firmly believe that if we were more empathetic, if we treated things more like people were going to use them, we would be more successful as creators. Creators. We wouldn't be crushed. And, you know, this is in line with a lot of the work I've been doing in my brand and my business this year. So it's near and dear to my heart. And Diana is fantastic. So I'm really excited to share this conversation with you. And let's jump into this episode of Creators the Crush, the show that helps creators move from crushed to crushing it. I'm your host and certified high performance coach, Sean Butner. So let's get into it, guys. Hey, Diana. Welcome to Creators that Crush. I'm so glad to have you on the show.

Thanks so much, Sean. I'm so excited for this conversation. I think it's going to be really powerful and I'm so glad we met and connected and I'm glad I had you. I invited you the podcast and here we are now. So I'm excited to be on your platform and having these, you know, really helpful conversations for your listeners.

Yeah, I'm so excited to have you here because the topic of the day is why content creators need to act as product managers in their business. And I know that's a lot of experience you had. We were just talking before we started, and I wish we were recording. We were talking about clarity work and getting defining audiences and whatnot, which I think is also part of product management. You know, you have to have a clear idea of what each product does and that this is the work. So could you maybe start with how you were struggling with that and where you've landed so far? And just as a great example to everyone on this work that we all do.

Yeah. So as you know, before I was ever a coach, I was in product management at a med tech company. And actually right before we started recording and you said, this is the topic I want to talk to you about, I actually had created a series on social media about how to be the product manager of your life. And I think it's so important for content creators to have a similar approach. And a lot of the points that I made in that series are relevant to this topic because the first thing on that series was about gaining clarity. And as a product manager, what makes product managers such great leaders of organizations is that they're not only clear on what the benefits of their product are, but also who is their ultimate customer and understanding them entirely, what their needs are, what their goals are, what their challenges are. And as a product manager, that kind of came a little natural to me to get very curious about who is this really helping and how. And how can we help them be better at what they're doing and be more efficient and sell more product? And because in that space I was in B2B sales and I had to not only understand my customer, the end user of our software, but also their business because they were also trying to sell their products. And so it was an interesting way of immersing myself in their world as a user of our system, but also in their clients world as how they interact with people and as a coach. It's interesting, even with that background, it was actually really hard to get clarity around what is it that I ultimately want to offer the listener of my, you know, training programs, my podcasts, my social media content, Because I wanted to help everyone, right? I thought this such a powerful tool, the product, I thought the product was just coaching, right? And so coaching is powerful for everybody. And I think when I start to reflect back on my product management role, I remember there was a time that we were selling imaging equipment for facial analysis, right? And facial analysis is really a great tool to use during a consultation to sell skincare products. And if you think about the landscape of skincare products, you can find skincare products at your dermatologist, you can find skincare products at your retail store, you can find skincare products at a high end spa or retailer like Sephora. And they all talk to their customers differently. And here we were with an imaging system that was catered towards kind of dermatologists trying to sell it to the retail space. And from that experience I learned how different their environments were, their customers, everything was different. And as a coach, if I bring it back to content creation. It's like, okay, I'm selling, you know, coaching services through these avenues, but I'm trying to do it to everyone, like, do it the same way for everyone. And where this analogy applies is I always say you can't be everything to everyone because you end up not being able to speak directly to anyone's individual needs. And I found that to be true. And in my content creation also, where since I didn't have ultimate clarity about who my, you know, ideal client is, the listener, also didn't have clarity on how I can help them. Really well, they had an idea of maybe what I did or, you know, some of the tools I taught or what I knew or my experience, but it's harder for them to connect with me because it doesn't, like, speak to them directly. Right. And so I think this is a, probably a challenge a lot of content creators have. Like, if this was a product and I, what it wasn't so personal, right? How would I manage that product? What would I want to get really clear on and how would I market it? What is my market and what are they struggling with? And I, I felt like I went through rounds and rounds of that time and time again. And I think where I always like came up in the same place was I, I, I got too personal with it. And so it was like I was the product as opposed to the product was the product. You know what I mean?

I think for me the struggle was I never knew what the purpose of the, like the podcast or the YouTube or my email, like newsletter or my social media. Why was I, like, I was doing it to sell coaching. But, like, that's not what people. Nobody wakes up and says, hey, you know what, I need a coach. Like, you don't have that idea. And some of the work I was doing this year was somebody had this concept of jobs to be done. Like your product or your content is hired to solve a particular problem for somebody. And that was kind of like the click note of like, oh, I need to be, I need to niche down. I need to talk to a particular set of folks in order to know what those problems are, to be able to speak to them, to that be clear in my messaging and everything. Because it's really easy having come from software, I think really abstractly. And then you can get really tactical. Being so broad or not having a particular thing to talk about. It's really hard to say this is how coaching helps you in these types of outcomes.

This concept of treating my business as If I were a product manager, again, I think really has made a big difference for me because also not just getting clarity on, you know, who my customer is for the sake of being clear, but also I remember that as a product manager, even as I made decisions, I was able to make those very confidently. And I'm like, lately I feel like, why, why don't I have any confidence making any of these decisions? I feel so, you know, unable to get clear on what to do, what not to do, what to prioritize, what not to prioritize. And yet as a product manager, I found it so easy. And it was, first of all, yes, knowing who my, my client was so well, asking all the questions that I needed to ask to put myself in their shoes, to have that kind of empathy that. And that also led me to be able to receive feature requests. I analyze competitors and decide which of these are actually going to make an impact on my customers experience most and which of these are going to open up the market for me the most. And to have that be the driver as opposed to, you know, I really want to give a TED Talk or I really want to write a book, or I really want to do all these things. But what is it that's going to help the most? And it's, it's great to have, you know, a list of goals and dreams and, you know, aspirations. And it's also so important to know the difference between like a goal and a dream, right? And your business and whether or not it's going to generate revenue because it. So I heard somebody once say that that is the difference between having a business and having a hobby, right?

Yeah. Yeah, it's so true. I'm also reminded that, you know, as a business owner, right, the Sam Walton had a quote that said sales cover up a lot of problems you have, you know, and so if you're bad at marketing, you're bad at defining your problem, but you're still able to make sales like it doesn't matter. So as we're moving into a, a more economically challenged time potentially because nobody knows what's happening. Like, like being able to get really clear and concise on how you add value and help, I think is super important. I know when we first started talking, you were focusing on tech folks and now you've switched to more executive. Could you maybe describe your process of making that shift? Because I feel like for me at least, I've done this shift of that, that kind of a shift maybe a hundred times in the 10 years I've been Creating stuff. And I'm still kind of trying to shape. Like, I think I have a better idea and it's coming more in focus, but I still don't think it's quite there. My hunch is that work will never stop. But could you highlight maybe that transformation for the folks listening?

I mean, I, I've probably changed my messaging a hundred times. Also. There was a time that it was, it was very broad and generic. It was about anybody that felt stuck or burnt out and just wanted to get clarity on their next step and have the courage to step into that. But that, again, was so broad and general and, and so it makes it very difficult for someone to kind of identify as, that's me and that's the right person, because they might say, yes, that I, I feel that, but the clarity on that's the exact right person to help me. It's harder if they don't feel more deeply understood, if that makes sense. Right. And so I think it's harder to get to that step without getting very specific about what it is that you're trying to solve for them. And I, I recently changed over to leadership and executive coaching. Just the way I got there is just some background on, on me is that I have an industrial organizational psychology master's degree. And during that time, I think one of the topics that I really like, delved into was leadership. Not just how to be a great leader, but also how to be a leader that motivates people. And so influence was a big part of that. It was, one, I was very passionate about the topic of leadership. Two, I had, I felt like I had a lot of knowledge, but also, three, I felt that especially in today's world where things are, you know, there's a lot of division, there's a lot of things happening politically that are putting leaders in front of people and, and people are stepping up as leaders that never did before. And, and so it's, it's about a feeling, a calling to create more leaders that set the example and, and are able to lead with courage when, you know, with a heart in the right place. And so as an industrial organizational psychology degree, I can confidently say when you have this type of leadership in place, you are more likely to create environments where people are not going to leave, where people are growing, where people are going to perform better. And so when I'm able to, you know, say, this is the value, and then I can almost quantify it or at least go beyond this very subjective way to a more tangible way, like, oh, yes, I. I Can identify, yes, I need that or yes, I don't have that right now. And I really, my organization really could use that or I want to be able to, you know, deliver that for my, my company, my teams, my, you know, my leadership. It's easier to say that than, you know, I just need more clarity. Most of the time people are going to be like, I can figure that out on my, you know, on my own. But yeah. Do you feel like you have had similar observations?

Yeah, I think the more that you can speak to specific problems, like it's the broccoli versus candy idea. I heard some people talk about like, you know, coaching is broccoli. Right. It's, it's good for you. And the way, at least the way that we do it, there's a scientific structure to it that's, you know, there to help you get the outcomes that you want, which I really love. But like again, nobody wakes up and is like, oh, I need a high performance coach. Oh, I need a creator coach. Oh, I need a executive coach. It's. My team is really dysfunctional now and I don't think it's the team. I think it's me, you know, or it isn't me, it's the team. And I need to figure out how to, you know, however you come into that. But so like, like candy is the, the, the reason why people think would come into the business, but the, the broccoli is the thing that actually helps transform them and move them forward, you know.

Yeah. It's also reminding me of the whole Simon Sinek talk about, you know, people buy your, your why and you know, they, they buy the why behind what you do, not what you, you're actually doing. Right. They're not buying the coaching, they're buying the, hey, you know, this is the mission to, I mean at the time his example was about Apple, right? Like revolutionizing the way that we engage with technology. What's interesting about that actually is nobody woke up and said, I really need the thing on the palm of my hand that's going to revolutionize technology. Right. But when they saw it, they were like, oh, you know, I want that. So really, I think what's below that even a step further is the why behind why they want it. And it is it ease of use. It's like it's going to make me more, whatever, popular, efficient, up on the latest technology. Cool. Yeah.

Yeah. Hey, it's Sean. Before we get back into this episode of Creators that Crush, I wanted to invite you to a free 30 minute call if you are struggling with creative burnout, with confidence, with trying to make progress on your creative endeavor, and so on this call, spend 30 minutes talking about one of your big goals or aspirations, or we'll talk about something you're struggling with. And the whole goal of the call is to get you moving with some personalized habits or tips. And so I just want to interact with people and that's why I'm inviting you on this free call. So if that is interesting to you, please go to SeanButner.com and you'll see a button right at the top of the page called schedule my 30 minute call. We'll get it all set up and we can help you start to progress again. We can help you go from crushed to crushing it as a content creator. So with that, scope that out and we'll get back to the episode. Another way of approaching this idea of being the product manager or being the leader in your product is getting to that deeper emotional level. You know, I struggle with this all the time where I want to tell you, like, hey, like, I will get you X result. You know, you might, you know, you're struggling with your creator business, get really clear on your audience. Like, that's a very easy thing. But why, like, what's the underlying thing? Like, you want to feel like you're helping people, right? You want to connect with your purpose. And that's really the work that I'm trying to help people with, you know.

So the way I put it in my, you know, traits of an exceptional Product manager series is empathy, really. Because the way to connect with people and influence them, to do anything really, is to be able to empathize with them and to be able to empathize with anybody, you really have to understand them. Like, what is it that they feel proud of? What is it that they are really struggling with? What is it that really hurts them? And to be able to like feel that hurt with them means that you'll describe it in a way that touches them emotionally. And so you need to also know, what do they really want and connect that emotion to it. And empathy, I think is so powerful also because I think people can see through like surface level, you know, interactions or just it's like, no, this person really gets it. Like, they, they understand me. And so to, to really connect with someone through your content, they have to feel that you understand them. And so you can't get to that lower, like they're that next level of product management without understanding them. When you create content just to bring it Back to that. When you create content and you're able to understand, is it that they. They feel they want to create something for their kids that they didn't have? Is it that they want to be around for their kids when they're older? If you're like a fitness trainer, is it that, you know, they saw their parent, you know, live a life that was like a miserable life working for someone doing, you know, something that they hated, and they don't want to do that again because they saw their. Their parents suffer. Like, just whatever their ideal client is, to know, like, what's the motivation will allow you to create content that maybe you thought wasn't the original request but speaks to them on a deeper level. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Yeah, totally. Totally. Yeah. It's all about. I think it's always about trying to find the root of where the request is coming from. And I think so many times I'm guilty of this. We do kind of get stuck at the surface level, or we go a couple of layers down and think that that's good, but it's not really connecting because it's not resonating on that core issue, and it's how do we get to that core issue?

And hey, I'm guilty of it too, right? Like, I think we all are at some point are, because it does require, like, some level of vulnerability to, you know, go there, and oftentimes it's deeper. So it requires that we step into courage and talk about things that are uncomfortable, which is another, you know, trait of great product managers is that they step into courage. And, you know, one of the things that I had on this series was also knowing when to course correct. And sometimes that is. That takes courage, too. It's like feeling like you're holding on to, well, everything that I've already invested, everything I've already done. And I really like this idea, but it's not working. And it takes, like, some courage to make these decisions, not just to course correct, to get out there to begin with, to start creating the content, but then to create content that is more vulnerable and create content that has maybe some not popular opinions. But you know that because of your core purpose, it requires that you have these difficult conversations. And so I think that's. That's part of it is also vulnerability to show your, you know, your true self in a complete way, to speak truth about, you know, what led you here. I think it's, It's. It's one of the reasons, I think we avoid getting deeper into the why.

Yeah, Oh, I love this line because it kind of leads into this next question that I have for you in that, you know, people hire me to, like, help level up their performance and feel less resistance in their life. And when I'm working with creators, I feel like they get pulled into any directions at once. And so for me, I think at the core, everyone really wants this aligned purpose behind everything they do. So you're trying to find that for yourself, and you're trying to help realize that for your audiences as creators. Do you find that in your business or where do you find that in your business?

If so, what I'm hearing you hinting at there.

All right, get deeper. Yeah.

Is, you know, having the courage to say no to the things that aren't aligned. Right. And so I think what you were talking about there is, like, knowing, getting very clear on what your values are, what your purpose is, and having the courage to, like, stand firm on that. And so I always. I think integrity is part of that, too. Always knowing when you're acting in alignment with what you know you preach, what you. What you say your values are, what you say you know, everyone should be doing. As a coach, it's like always checking in with yourself. I think that's valid for product managers, for content creators. Like, am I still in alignment? Am I still acting from a place of integrity with my values, with my purpose, with what I said? This we set out to create here. Right?

So I'm curious then, as a executive, as a leader, as a content creator, as a product manager, do you have any techniques or strategies or habits to help you figure that stuff out? Because sometimes when you're in it, it's really hard to see. I always say it's been for me, and, you know, as someone that spent a lot of time in corporate America and then got really buttoned down to be a creator and try to, like, inject my personality, which is a little bit vulnerable, a little bit scary. Takes a little bit of courage. It's also hard because the habit of being the cool, collected. I got everything under control, everything's fine. We just got to figure out this problem when it's like, my business is on fire because I don't have clients. Right. Or I really screwed up this really big deal, and I'm really freaking out about it because I really wanted to work with so and so, or I really wanted this outcome. Like, how do you. I mean, those moments, it's kind of obvious because things are blowing up, but, like, do you have a way to get ahead of Those types of things or to know where you should have boundaries on a particular product or in your business or in your purpose.

So I think two things that I heard when I talking about what are some tools that I use. The first one I would say is actually right from our clarity session, which is like, what are the three words that describe the best of who I am? Right. And I use those three words to guide every decision. And then I did the same with my daughter. I said, okay, what are the three words? And we ended up with five, because three words that describe the best of who we are as a family. And so I think that's relevant to, you know, where the three words that describe the best of this company. What are the three words that describe the best of this podcast? What are the three words that describe the best of. You know, my content as a coach. Right. And once you have kind of the. The clarity of what those three words are, those ultimately are your values, right? And for me, for those of you that don't know my story, my. My late husband actually sent me three words. I've never heard a coach do this, but I must have been really struggling or I just, you know, divine intervention, have the right coach at the right time. My very first session, the clarity session with this coach, as she's asking me for my three. But the three words that describe the best of who I am in that time of my life, I was struggling to come up with what those three words were. And she said, you know what? I'll tell you what, why don't you ask the 10 closest people to you, you know, what they find their three word best. Excuse me, what? She asked me to ask the 10 closest people to me to give me the three words that describe the best of who I am to them. And she said, I bet you will find some themes. Said, okay. And so this was in March of 2020, and the pandemic had just begun, and my late husband had started to get sick. And I had my very first session, like on Monday, and I got this. This exercise to do. And on Saturday, he was just feeling so terrible that he finally decided to check into the hospital. And that day, before he went to the hospital, he sends me what his three words were so that I would have them for my next coaching session. Those three words ended up being the three words that I ultimately live by, right? And the three words were love, courage, and integrity. And they also happen to be the three words that I used with my daughter. And we added laughter and faith. And so the reason Those two words became so powerful was because I didn't know it at the time, but I was about to go through the hardest season of my life. And every time I had to make a decision, I would ask myself, is this a decision that is grounded in love, courage and integrity, or is it something else? And it. Sometimes it could be fear, right? Sometimes it could be people pleasing, sometimes it could be just all the other fears. You know, fear of being judged, fear of things not working out, fear of all sorts of fears. But courage was one of my three words and I was grounded in that. And I was also grounded in love. And everyone, I think, is going to have their moments where you're not going to act in alignment. And it's not about are you always in alignment? It's about are you always checking back in with yourself and getting back in alignment. But that's how I know am I in alignment or not? And I think that exercise, if used in that way, will be very powerful for a lot of people. Because the second tool that I was going to give, and I'll tie the two together, is being very grounded in knowing that you aren't for everyone. Like you aren't meant to be liked by everybody. And so being able to let go of the of sense things that aren't for you.

And to paraphrase it and put a bow on it, it's what you're talking about is define your values using the three word exercise for everything. I've talked about that on my podcast before. I'll link that in the show notes. But I think what made that exercise really powerful was engaging the people around you to help you out. And so there's a social aspect and a very beautiful heartfelt thing. I felt that as you're explaining that from your early husband. So thank you for sharing that. And everyone loves me, so I know that doesn't apply. I'm kidding.

But I just want to add to that that ultimately you don't want what isn't meant for you. Like you. You don't want to know that the only reason you have, if it's the followers you have, it's the friends you have, if it's the whatever it is that you have that you got by being an inauthentic version of you or being this like shell of a person because you gave everything of yourself to something and was you were no longer who you are, you know, at your core, then that wasn't really for you because it's some version of you that is not you anymore. Right? And so I think it's that, I think that's where the work is too, is like that self acceptance of there's nothing wrong with me, I am exactly who I'm supposed to be. And like being genuine will attract what's the group of people that are meant for me. That will really resonate with my message, that will really resonate with my company, with my company's values, with my. It's kind of like dating, right? Like you don't want to show up to every date with this like big version of yourself and then this person is in a relationship with you and they don't even really know who you are. And so you're never gonna feel loved if you know that they love a version of you that isn't actually you. Right, right.

I love that. Okay, a couple last quick questions for you.

Okay.

What have you found surprising or really loved helping your folks with leadership and or product management? I kind of used interchangeably this conversation. I know they are similar and different in different ways, but in your business, what have you found are really found surprising or really loved in helping people?

Yeah, I'm trying to think of like a very specific thing. Obviously for me, coaching as a coach, you know, coaching is the most fulfilling work I can ever imagine doing from a leadership perspective. The conversation that keeps like coming up in my mind, the like the coaching experience I had was actually around having conflict and having difficult conversations. And I did not expect to be having that conversation, first of all, because it turned out that this client had a very different opinion and she was having a really hard time being able to be transparent and courageous in sharing what her views and opinions were in rooms where she felt like they weren't accepted. And it turned out that her opinion or her views were different from mine. And in real time we got to see her have an experience where she was able to share in a safe space. But it was highly emotional. And I really like got to witness how hard it can be to be able to express and be authentic. Even at a sea level role where you're in charge and you're in command and you're leading a multi million dollar business. And sometimes the pressure to like avoid conflict can feel so heavy. It was just powerful to watch her go through a transformative experience in being vulnerable because it felt really vulnerable. And now to me, who I feel knew her and knew her core, knew who she was and I knew, you know, what a quality person she was, I was so accepting and I accepted her and valued her even with a different Opinion. I think it was just. I didn't expect it, I guess, to have that kind of conversation. Especially we opened up talking about why I moved over to leadership coaching. And just to give a little bit more context, right now the United States is, like, having a big divide politically. Right. And it's two sides that almost, like, make the other side just wrong. Right. And that conversation was very much about this. And we were able to have a conversation without making the other person wrong while seeing them for their, you know, their heart and who they were as opposed to their political views, while disagreeing, agreeing that we still respect and value one another. And I never thought I would be having a conversation like that in a coaching, you know, environment. And I never thought it was going to feel so vulnerable for someone in a world where right now it's almost, like, so hostile to share, you know, these political views. And so I think just to kind of. I don't. I don't know what the. The essence of that is, except that I felt there was so much powerful conversation in, like, being vulnerable and being your authentic self and, like, doing it even when you feel like you might be rejected. Right. Like, I think that moment was just surprising. When you say what has surprised you. And I think it's important because her hearing it, hearing how I received it, she said, made her understand how she could receive somebody else's opinion also in a way that was safe and it was okay to be able to have a discussion like that. And I think that's really needed today in today's leadership.

Yeah, it's beautiful to be able to have something so contentious, to be able to talk about it and not. And still be friends at the end of it. I feel like it's so much of it is like, I don't talk to my uncle anymore because, you know, and it's like, this is. Why is this thing breaking families? And we have so many other things that we have shared values on that we really do care about. And so that's awesome.

Yeah. And honestly, I feel like I grew through that, too, through that experience in a way that I wasn't expecting.

Any last thoughts for content creators before I ask the final question?

Last thoughts. At the end of the day, it is about resilience, being persistent, understanding that this is a skill, understanding that the frustration is always like, Dr. Becky talks about this. If anybody with canes probably. Right. It's like, if you ever feel frustrated, it means that you're in the space between not knowing and knowing how to do something. And that space is called learning. And so really taking that growth mindset and just the reps make such a difference. And it's also like, rather than beating yourself up over things, right. And what went wrong and being ultra critical, honestly, this is something I struggle with too, is like, rather than being ultra critical, it's about like, what went. What went well. And I think as a product manager, it's like we could get lost in that way too. It's like going on to the next thing, the next thing, the next thing, the next thing, and like fixing all the bugs and why, why we missed the mark. And one of the greatest things about a product manager, I think, as a leader is not just to be able to identify, you know, where, where we could be better, but also to celebrate when we miss that opportunity to celebrate what went well, were so focused on what went wrong that we actually end up, you know, recreating it. It's. It's like Tony Robbins talks about when he was driving this, the race car, and he said, whatever you do, you know, don't look at the turn, look where you're going. You know, don't look at the wall, look at the turn. And I think it's, it is about that, like, focus on what's going well and you'll do more things well and celebrate them. And that will be what allows you to grow and continue to be resilient. Because the growth happens in like, fostering the, the things you did well, not in like, beating yourself up about the thing, being ultra critical about the things that didn't. Right.

I think it's a great way to end. So final question is, what did you love about our discussion? And I want to start out by saying what I loved was just how open and vulnerable you were. I really think, you know, thinking of our creative lives as product managers helps us solve a lot of creator problems, like clarity on who you're talking to, what to make content, about how you align and feel motivated behind it, putting your values in. To the work you do. I think that was very, very clear. But yeah, I just am very thankful for your energy and time and knowledge. So that's what I loved.

Thanks so much, John. I really appreciate you having me on. You're always, you know, such a bright energy and very inviting. And I love talking today. I actually, you gave me some really good questions. I got to reflect on some things that I maybe hadn't reflected on in a while. And so I, I felt like I got a lot of it out of it also. And so I think that I, you know, whoever is listening is also going to get some good kind of nuggets and hopefully help them on their journey. That question about, like, what really surprised you about the work you did? I hadn't thought about that in a long time about that, you know, situation and how it aligns with my, you know, newfound passion for creating better leaders. And I think it really helped me kind of solidify that decision too. So thank you for that.

Oh, you're welcome, man. This is what we do on the show all the time, guys. So awesome with that. Thank you so, so much for your time and energy today. I'm really excited to get this out to folks. So, yeah, where can people, where should people follow up if they want to know more about you?

Yeah. So my latest program is live on lifeonpurpose Coach Thrive. And you can always find me on Instagram or LinkedIn @LifeOnPurpose coach. I'm also on LinkedIn. Diana Ordonez, Life on Purpose Coaching. And you know, feel free anybody that wants to sign up and for a free strategy call, I'd love to have a conversation about how to elevate your leadership and just create high performing teams and become that purpose driven leader that you, you know, aim to be. So right on.

Cool. We'll have that in the show notes for y'.

All.

So check that out and then. Yeah, hope to talk to you soon. Diana, thank you so, so much. I hope you loved this episode of Creators that Crush. I really enjoyed talking with Diana. I hope you got something out of it. If you want to go through that three word exercise that we talked about that she was really getting emotional about, which was very sweet, that story and heartfelt. The link is in the show notes so you can look at over here on YouTube and we'll see you guys in the next episode of Creators that Crush.