Embracing Authenticity and Spirituality with Ashley Abramson | Meaningful Revolution Podcast

Whether you believe in him or not, whether you believe in religion or not, the symbol that represents is what you are grasping into. And I'm here to say no. You are not made to suffer. You are not a sinner. Yeah, your body, but you aren't your body. We don't even talk about our body as if it's like we are the body, right? Like, we refer to the body as like this external source. What's referring to that body? It's your truth. It's who you truly are, which is spirit. What I'm working towards every day is untying myself more and more from the ego. When. So when someone comes to me and they are angry or upset, I see past. I see past that anger or upsetness, and I see truth. And truth is that they are one with me, in love. So it's not I even personally showing up as the light I am is me not seeing the ego in you. Because if I see the. The ego in you, I see the ego in myself, right? So eventually, like Buddha and Jesus, when you become enlightened, you literally cannot see the ego anymore. You only see pure spirit, oneness, and love. That's why people can throw stones at you. That's why people can crucify you. That is why people can all do all these awful things to you. And it doesn't phase you because you know it's an illusion. And you don't actually see it. You don't place weight on it at all. So to me, it's not about being the light. It's about remembering you are the light and remembering the light in your brother. Seeing only the light in your brother, that is a big thing with what I believe to be truth, is what I believe to be truth. I'm not here to evangelize. I'm not here to push my truth on others. My true goal is to clear out everybody else's noise so that they can hear whatever their truth is. I don't care, because there is thousands of ways to get home, Right? I just have found my journey through a course in miracles, and that is my journey back home.

I would love to introduce you to our friend, Ashley Abramson. Hey, Ashley.

Hello. Hi, Sean. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

We were talking before. I always ask this question. I'll lead with this question. What would you call your meaningful revolution that helps people find their fulfilling transformation or purposeful impact out in the world?

Yeah, so mine. It might prickle some people because I'm using some pretty Heavy narratives people might carry. But it's the Jesus revolution reloaded. And so really what that is, it's a revolution. It's not a revolution at the level of form, it's a reclaiming of the mind. I'm a firm believer that this is a projection from the mind and we've gotten ourselves into this mess and the only way out is to get back into the right minded thinking and to remember that we're actually not here. So I really feel that my message is all about that Jesus revolution reloaded and going back to, to what Jesus really tried to represent for us, which was to identify with the resurrection. I think so often we identify with the crucifixion and think we're sinners and we're awful people and we deserve to suffer and be in the darkness. And in my decades of personal work and work with others, I found that's not the case. You don't need to be in the darkness when darkness doesn't exist in the light. So when we say there's a question of can you find light by analyzing the darkness. And for some reason today the movement of a lot of personal development is going into the darkness to look for the light. But reality is if I go shut the light off in my bedroom right now and it's dark, I'm not gonna find any light because light does not exist in darkness. So it's really about standing in the light, clearing away all of the noise to hear your truth within and getting your journey outta here. So yeah, Jesus Revolution reloaded is, would be, is the revolution. I, I think that currently I am advocating for and sharing for and doing every single day for myself.

Right on. The first best question in my mind is, could you describe a time before you had this idea of this revolution focusing more on the resurrection, like maybe a time when you were more focused on that darker part. And how did you go from there to where you are now?

Oh, geez. I would say the majority of my years of transformation and personal development have been intentionally going into the darkness, intentionally sitting in it, intentionally provoking it, revisiting it. And it is miserable. It is an awful place to sit for a period of time. And then I started to be like, there's gotta be another way like it. Why should we have to suffer to become amazing? It just, it didn't make sense, like as much. I've done so many different journeys in my lifetime as far as personal development and spiritual spirituality and human design and all of that. I sought out my answers everywhere. But every time I would do them. I was all in. I'm always an all in girl. It's like, why half foot in, let's really experience this and see if this works. And every time I would go all in, I would still feel this sense of longing and unfulfilledness that this just doesn't make sense. And ever since I was a little girl, I was very curious. I was the little. Most children ask lots of questions, but I continued that and was always told, you ask too many questions. You asked too many questions. And I locked that up for a period of my life. And when I found my way back to that is when I found my way to truth. Like, taking things at face value, I think right now, as much as we believe that we are moving in this higher level consciousness, we have moved more into the ego than we ever have. And we're really sitting in a place of believing that creating a better illusion is the answer. When in fact, if you really sat back and, and thought about it and I would love. If anyone's listening and they're like, ashley, you're crazy. I love constructive conversation. So by no means am I not open to other people's ideas, but if you really sat there and you're like, okay, so I'm here for whatever, 80 years on average, I think is the average lifespan in that time. I make a lot of money, I make a lot of friends, I fall in love, I get heartbreaks, I go through a lot of things, and then what, right? There has to be a bigger purpose. Otherwise it's just 80 years and you're done. There has to be a better reason for why we're here. And at one point I went down the venture of conversations with God where I am a piece of God, and he wanted to experience duality. And duality is this illusion. For every good there is a bad. For every dark, there is a light. We're in this dualistic, constant roller coaster. And I. That just doesn't resonate. Like, why would you want to experience such pain and heartache and misery? If anybody in this illusion right now had the option to never experience pain again, I'm sure they would. I don't think I would know anyone who actually truly would be like, no, I love the pain. Unless there is something else going on, right? Some sort of trauma that actually they correlate pain with pleasure, which is super easy to do, hence BDSM and. And different things like that, where people have decided that pain is pleasure. But I've gone off tangent, but the majority of my Transformative time was in the darkness, and it was always like going against the river. Right. Going against the current. It was painful. It took time out of my life. It made it feel like time took forever. Right. When you're sitting in that dark, it's, oh, my gosh. And then when I started to realize that, no, it's about me standing in the light. Because when I'm in the light and darkness comes forward. Right. Because we have traumas, we have things from our childhood, and they do get brought up, but you don't place weight on it. Because when you don't place weight, your light dispels the dark. Right. So it's. If I went into that bedroom that the lights off and I have a flashlight, all of a sudden there's light. Because darkness cannot exist in light. Yeah. I think it's an unnecessary, unnecessary thing that we have decided because we identify with the resurrected Jesus. Whether you believe in Jesus or not, if you believe you need to suffer in order to build a successful business, have an amazing marriage, be an amazing person, then you are identifying with the crucified Jesus, hands down. Hands down are whether you believe in him or not, whether you believe in religion or not, the symbol that represents is what you are grasping into. And I'm here to say, no, you are not made to suffer. You are not a sinner. Yeah, your body, but you aren't your body. We don't even talk about our body as if it's like, we are the body, right? Like, we refer to the body as, like, this external source. What's referring to that body? It's your truth. It's who you truly are, which is spirit.

So here's another way to phrase it and see if we go anywhere different. If not, that's totally fine. But in my experience as a coach and doing this podcast, there tends to be a. I like to call it like a call to adventure or a call from the heart to change. So was there that moment for you where you're like, in the suffering, in this. Like, I'm feeling a little bit lost and feeling a little bit of this longing for something different where there was a moment where you're like, this is where the scale tipped. And before, I was on this journey of creating big miracle energy and this movement where there's like a definitive moment or set of moments. Sometimes it's not just one episode. Right. It could be a group of personal development things you did where you're like, this kind of stinks. But do you remember or do you have a recollection of one moment where you're like, okay, this is driving me to change, to do something different.

Yeah, again. And not to take it back to what I was just saying, but this, that's been like my lifelong journey. I have always felt like there's got to be something different. But the moment that was that tipping scale of the most recent moment because I have many. One where I attempted to commit suicide and I wasn't successful. But the Most recent moment, two recent moments, was my divorce when I was 32 years old. I had done all the personal development things. I followed Brendan Burchard. I was doing all the things right. And then everything I created for happiness was ripped out from under me. The house, the car, the family, the just everything, everything was ripped out. And I realized crap. Personal mindset work only goes so deep. There is stuff that mindset work can mask. It's like a band aid. It's beautiful icing on the cake. But if you have not built the cake, that icing will not last in the storm. And that is what I experienced. And I self destructed for close to a year and then was faced with some consequences at work that actually saved my life. And a woman held out hope for me when I had no hope for myself. And it wasn't even. She didn't even hold out hope for the Ashley that was married. She held out hope for the little girl I had locked up so long ago. The vibrant love for life. Curious isn't going to settle with just any answer until she feels it's truth. That girl. And so I found my journey back to that. And then that's when I began to build my business and really come from a place of self, spirit in purpose. And then I got wrapped up in a business program that was going to teach you how to make $10,000 in 30 days. And that was their focus. Their focus was money. We at the Mastermind retreats, we talked about some really great deep stuff, don't get me wrong. But there was a lot of talk about how to purchase an airplane and have it tax wrote off and how to buy a G wagon and let's fly first class class. And it was very shiny objects and that's never been me, but I super easily get pulled into that, back into that ego belief system of things mattering. And I went from making a crap ton of money in my business and pretty much overnight I was making $0. But the problem was I was spending way more than I was making. And I had a, a really deep realization there that I couldn't keep going back and forth between the ego and the spirit. And I needed to find my way all forward, fully in spirit, fully on purpose. And I did. And things have just aligned beautifully. I did things like I readjusted my prices, all that stuff, to really get my ego belief system in check. And then that began, really, the even deeper level of journey of understanding that I'm not meant to suffer. I'm here to identify with the resurrected Jesus and I'm here to help others see that as well and help others find their way home. And it's not even find your way home. It's remember, you're never left home. So, yeah, I guess those would be the two most pivotal moments. The divorce was really big. And then building a business and then chasing money was another big thing for me.

Divorce is always a huge thing for anyone. So thank you for sharing that and showing how just human you are. Like that is. We all have our moments in life, but thank you for sharing it. Thank you for being here. So you keep mentioning this phrase, the ego belief system. I want to dig into that a little bit more just so the audience is on the same page with terminology. Because if you study any type of psychology there, you could have a couple of different meanings to that. So let's just get that cleared up if you're game.

Yeah. So at the simplest form, the ego belief system is coming from a place of duality, right? Acknowledging everything in this illusion. So everything in this illusion is created by the ego belief system. It is that place. It represents fear, it represents sacrifice, it represents separation. So anything that you see that was created for separation was created by the ego belief system. And anytime you feel fear, anger, sadness, anything but love, you are in the ego belief system. So the ego growing up, I remember there was always those cartoons with the devil on one angel or devil on one shoulder, the angel on the other. It's like that. It's like you have the ego belief system on one shoulder, which is the really negative, I want you to suffer, and the crucified Jesus. And then on the other side, you have your highest self, or the Holy Spirit, some people refer to it as. And that's pure oneness and love, the one that knows truth, that is truth, and will not fight for your attention. The ego belief system is constantly trying to distract you with shiny objects so that you don't remember your truth. Right. Because our truth is innate to us. So it's actually the easiest place to be, which is super interesting. And for my journey, at first, it's I don't know if we can swear on here, so I won't swear, but go for it. Okay. So the truth shall set you free, but first it will piss you the fuck off. And it is so true. At first, when you start to untie yourself from the ego, it is very frustrating and it feels so hard. But once you start start to see it, you realize how simple it actually is. Right? Easy. But it's simple because that's your innate state. Right. So innately that's how you want to operate. But the problem is you have all you've been in society, right. And so society has taught you all these things. You've operated in this ego illusion. So that feels like your first nature, but in, in fact it's not. So. Yeah, that's really what the ego belief system is anytime. And that's where darkness is too, right? Ego belief system. So when you're sitting in the darkness thinking you're gonna heal, you're never gonna heal by sitting in the darkness. I promise that you that maybe you do end up healing. But I can tell you it wasn't a result of sitting in the darkness. It was your decision at the level of the mind to heal.

Okay.

Does that make sense?

Totally makes sense. And thanks for explaining that a bit more. And I feel like we're gonna be bouncing around here a little bit. But another question I have, I'm just curious about your perspective on this. With light you also cast shadows, to use continue that metaphor. I'm a high performance coach and one of the sayings in my practice is honor the struggle. So it's not to completely eliminate it, but you have to acknowledge it's there and not get caught in it. It's like the needle you're trying to thread. So how do you acknowledge that ego belief system because it is part of you too, but not let it take over or overwhelm you or keep you in that spot so that you can experience that side of love that you were talking about.

Yeah. So it's a made up part of you and that, that's a whole nother story. But essentially even those statements of it's hard or the struggle and that right there you are acknowledging that you have to go through it. And I'm not saying it doesn't happen. And the only thing is your perspective changes. Right. So what I hear you saying, Shawna, is more of that perspective change in regards to what that is. And the biggest piece is not placing weight on it. Right. When you place weight on something or you Judge it, you make it real. So even by saying it was a struggle, you have immediately judged it. I'm talking about. You don't even do that. It just is. Literally, I live every day by the statements of I just is, it just is, and God is. Because it's. That is the end. That's the end. We don't need to keep going on. The second we continue on and we begin judging, we've placed weight. A lot of people talk about limiting beliefs. Most people, when I have, when I'm on their podcast and they bring up limiting beliefs, I'm like, I don't believe in limiting beliefs. And the reason why I don't believe is because you've immediately placed weight on something when in fact all beliefs are limiting. It's just a matter of which one you choose. Right. But you are placing weight saying, this one belief I carry is causing all this shit, when in fact it's not. You are right. And you. It's as easy as you making a different choice in what you want to believe.

Okay, got it.

You're like, what the F. No, no.

Answered my question. It's just we can go into. We can definitely dive into that kind of section where I think there's a lot of nuance in there, because I agree with you. It is a matter of perspective and you get to choose where. Your mind is a magnificent machine and you can play. What you focus on will manifest. So if you're focused on the struggle going on, of course you're going to recognize and feel that the stress of that and all the negative feelings from that. And so I'm totally on board with that. And I think there's also a balance of sometimes things happen. And it's not like you said, it's not holding onto that or buying into that or identify having your identity based around that. And I think that's another way of saying what you were just saying and acknowledging that stuff happens and you can let go of it is an important skill.

Yeah. And I think the Holy Grail to become Buddha or Jesus, any large guru that obtained enlightenment in this illusion, which I know today a lot of believe, people believe they are obtaining enlightenment. And I'm here to say they're not. Higher level consciousness is not enlightenment. Enlightenment is outside of the dream. There is no levels. It just is. But they got to the point where they didn't even have to let something go because they never grasped onto anything. Right. That's what I'm talking about. You never even grasp onto it. And when I talk about the mind, I'm not talking about your brain. Your is created by the ego to decode this illusion that the mind that is filled with shame and guilt is projecting here. Right. So your brain is just a decoder. We know it is a, a puzzle solving machine which essentially is a decoder. And there's recent studies out in the UK that are actually starting to question if they've had psychology wrong this entire time. And that essentially the mind and the brain are separate. That the brain, the mind is actually the one operating in everything. And it is, it is. People heal themselves all the time from cancer. People cause disease within themselves and that's all because of the belief system in which they are coming from at the level of the mind. Right. And how that impacts them. Because I, even if I became enlightened today, this body still could get cancer tomorrow. The difference is I won't hold onto it. Right. I be in the state of. That's why the story of Jesus, he was nailed to the cross and he laughed at them because he felt no pain, because he saw, saw past his. He knew he wasn't his body. So it was like if you and I are watching a movie of someone getting nailed to a cross. Yeah, maybe it's, oh, this isn't good. But we're not feeling pain. That's how you are. Right. That's why pro athletes and high performance people can see past the pain. Because technically they aren't the pain.

Yeah, got it right on. I love that they're not. You're not your pain. Shifting gears a little bit. So I've had a couple folks on the podcast before that talk about being the light. I'm curious your thoughts about how your community can impact that. I had an author on earlier whose like catchphrase is be the candlelight for others. So when other people are in that dark spot, somebody else can come in to be the light to help them out. And I think you had a part of your story where that might have been true when you had a. Was a coworker that believed in you when, when you didn't and helped you out of that. What are your thoughts on, on that type of concept and how community plays into the, this metaphor of light in the world.

So I live every day by a quote by Ram Dass and it's, we're all just walking each other home. And it's a great quote for within this illusion. But the truth is we're, we're all one. And when I say we're all one, I don't believe like a big movement right now that we're all connected. I believe we are literally one projected into many, right? So that's different than many connected as one. It's the, the top down. So in certain effect we're all connected to the same mind that is projecting here, right? So as long as I continue to show up from a place of truth and see truth in you, it's actually shifting the mind and you begin to see truth in yourself. So innately we all are the light. See, that's the thing I used to say be the light for others, but you are the light. So when we say be, it's like you have to do something, right? Like you have to become the light, when in fact you just need to remember you are the light. And you need to quit looking at the shiny objects and the distractions that are making you believe you are something else. So when I show up, like when I'm doing one on one coaching or in my group setting, I know that I don't change you, only you change yourself at the level of the mind, right? You have to make a decision to accept that. But if I sit down with you and I don't acknowledge your ego, I'm also changing it at the level of the mind. And if you are open to receiving it, you will receive it. That is why Jesus healed, like made people see again that were blind and healed. Not because he was some miracle healer, but, but because he had figured out how to completely untie himself from the ego and have full access to the one mind that projects anyone. So like essentially he could just enter into the mind, see Sean as wholly perfect and then it you're projected out and all of a sudden you're holy perfect. He wasn't doing magic, right? So that is what I see as those statements today is remembering you're the light and always seeing the light in your brother. And the other cool thing is if I come because I'm not enlightened yet, right? Own it. I still get pulled into the ego belief system, but the difference is the amount of time it takes me to get myself back into a place of spirit. If you and I have an interaction and you me off and I see your attack is attack and I get pulled in and I attack and we've got like egos going head to head. If I look back at that on an hour later and I choose to see it from the Holy Spirit's belief system, which is realizing it never happened because I was dreaming and releasing all weight, that right there heals and they. The holiest place on earth is the place where an ancient hatred has now turned to love. And that can happen anywhere, right? That can happen with me and the guy on the street that's homeless. That could happen with me and my partner. That could happen with me and a person on a podcast. But that is what we're all doing. And we're walking each other home as the mirrors we are. And seeing ourself in you is actually, see, it's me. It's me is you.

Right on. Yeah, I like that. That the idea that we are all just reflections of each other or reflections of one thing. I think it breeds a lot more empathy for people. Like the person that snapped at you at the coffee shop. Maybe just had a family member pass away and you didn't know it. And like, being open to accept that energy directed at you isn't a reflection of you or them or anything, but is just a reaction to things happening in life is. Allows you to not get caught up to then direct that energy back. I think a lot of the time we have some questions about your brand or big miracle energy. Could you explain what that is? And I know you have this thing called the Unicorn Effect. Maybe go into that a little bit, please.

Yeah. So I'll start with the Unicorn effect. Cause that was born first. And so the Unicorn effect method is really the one on one work I do with individuals to clear out the noise, the societal conditioning, trauma, everything else so they can hear their truth with it. That is a big thing with what I believe to be truth, is what I believe to be truth. I'm not here to evangelize. I'm not here to push my truth on others. My true goal is to clear out everybody else's noise so that they can hear whatever their truth is. I don't care because there is thousands of ways to get home. Right? I just have found my journey through a course in miracles. And that is my journey back home. But that is really the Unicorn effect method. And the Unicorn effect is just like the butterfly effect, right? A butterfly can flap its wings halfway around the world and cause a tsunami when you are standing in your truth. So remembering you are the light. Right? If we go back to what you just talked about, standing in the light that you remember you truly are, and you go and interact with others, your brother, and you see the light in them. That one person can turn into 7 billion very quickly. So that's the whole unicorn effect. And then big miracle energy is a play on a play on big dick Energy, actually, I'll just be honest. Right. It was born from there, but essentially it's the reminder that miracles are innate to us. Miracle. A miracle occurs when you are coming from your highest self or the Holy Spirit's belief system. That is a miracle. So even though there is no level of hierarchy, big or small, it's like a fun play. Like big miracle energy. And also energy doesn't exist where miracles do. So that's another play. But it's really a community. It's a. A place and a community and a movement. Right. That sparked the Jesus revolution reloaded. And it's where we can get curious. It's a place free of judgment, where you can ask questions, you can really begin to explore things that aren't mainstream, things that aren't the current fact, but really just get honest with yourself, with other people, and hold each other accountable in the form of just being there. It's a place to walk each other home. And so from that, I've built a Patreon channel and Discord community that goes with that. I have a YouTube channel, and it's really a place where I share my truth. But then we have the opportunity for other members to share their truth. And then the Discord community where we hold one another accountable and have conversations. Yeah, that's really what the Unicorn effect and Big Miracle energy are.

Yeah, totally. I love where the origin of Big Miracle that is. It's hilarious to me. So something I'm noticing is a theme through everything we talked about is this ability in order to shine your light. Right. To be the light, but really just let the light shine from you. Is this withholding judgment? Right. And that's a tricky thing for many human beings. I think everyone has had that moment where, you know, you cast judgment. How do you approach withholding judgment in those moments when maybe you call it your ego is trying to make that happen in we're living right now.

Yeah. So I talk a lot about intentional living and awareness. So I'm. And I know there's a lot of people in the coaching industry that just say things, but they don't do it. When you meet Ashley, which is what you get, everything I encourage others to do, I'm doing times a million within my own head, within my own life. So I am literally constantly checking my. What I say, check myself before I wreck myself. So when I feel that urgent. And the other thing is giving yourself grace in the process. Right. Because if you beat yourself up, you're putting weight again. So it's finding that middle ground. Of bringing awareness, Doing what I call is a catch and release. Right. Something is coming in, you see it, you're like, okay, whatever. Nope, out, release. But it's more what I call an invitation. When that ego comes up, maybe I'll apologize or something. But even that is taking ownership at a level that places judgment. And that's another conversation for another day because that's much deeper level. But it's. Oh shit, what was I projecting? Right? What is going on inside Ashley that she still has not forgiven? At the level of the mind that I just projected out on you. So, so it's an opportunity. That's really what I tell people is like literally everything you do is a projection of what's going on inside. So you want to get to know yourself, start seeing how you interact with others, how you interact with the things around you. Because that's really how you're interacting with yourself. Because if I judge you, I have first judge myself. And that is so true. I think it's a Bible phrase and I want to tell your listeners and you as well, Sean, when I use words such as Holy Spirit, God, Jesus, I am not coming from a religion place. I'm not coming from Christianity. I am coming from what these symbols I believe were meant to represent before man came in and fucked them up.

Yeah.

Because many times we have so many stories. My myself, personally, I've had stories to work through before I could actually say Jesus's name without being like church for myself. We've all, many of us have been hurt by the church or things like that. But when I say that I am coming from a non religious place, I'm just coming from my relationship with what I believe to be the higher power and what I believe those words symbolized and they're just words. Right? The F word, fuck, that's just a word. It only means something if you put a story behind it. So I think I went off on the tangent there and can't really bring myself back.

That's fine. We're talking about withholding judgment and talked about checking yourself, giving yourself grace. This catch and release.

Yeah.

And, and asking yourself what you're projecting.

Yeah. So the more you do that, Right. The more awareness you bring, the more catch and release as you do, the less it occurs. So it's not like you. And I think that's a big misnomer in the personal development world is we're like, don't judge, judge, you're judging yourself. But it's, oh, that's great, don't judge. But there is a shit ton of work before you can get to that place. That's what we're missing. Right. It's not saying affirmations in the mirror. It's not manifesting the life of your dreams. This is some deep awareness of who you truly are. And for most people that's really freaking uncomfortable. Right. And I'm not talking about awareness of Sean today who has all of these beliefs that were based on society and everything else. I'm talking about unpacking all of that and remembering the Sean that was like a month old before anybody started to fuck him up. Right. I'm talking about you at your peer state, which I say this a lot. We are not afraid of the darkness. We love the darkness. What we are afraid of is our light. We are afraid of the power that is contained in our innate state, which is light. I'm talking about figuring out who you are in the light, figuring out what that light is. And we are scared to death of that. And a lot of people who would say no, we're not, unless they've done some deep work of untying the ego, then they're not really. They're in another ego created light because the ego wants to keep you here in this illusion because it's created for the ego. So it literally has its own forms of love and forgiveness and light and all that. Otherwise we'd. We'd all figure it out real quick if there wasn't something else. So there's lots of false idols out there.

Gotcha. This immediately then leads to the question like, how do you know or is it even possible? And these words probably aren't going to be like perfect way to articulate this. But how do you know when you've become enlightened? When you conquer conquered your. And you don't conquer your ego, but that you've fully stepped into your purest self, Your. Your pure light out in the world. Like how have you seen it in the world? And how could somebody maybe do an assessment? Okay, I'm like not let you ever halfway there. But I'm on the journey. I'm a beginner, I'm pretty good at it. And still trying to get to that level of pure acceptance, that pure awareness, that pure intention.

Yeah. So I would say right there, if you're trying to find some sort of quiz or response to if you're enlightened, you are not. It's going to be a state that you just know. And to be honest, when you get to that place, none of this matters. So you're not going to be googling. Am I enlightened? Because you're going to be like fucking Google's doesn't matter. Nothing matters. Buddha didn't care. Jesus didn't care. Jesus felt a mission to share the message, but if people didn't resonate with it, he didn't care. But he knew. He knew. You'll know. And that's the other problem with the current movement of I'm enlightened. I'm enlightened. I'm enlightened. I'm enlightened. No, you just are more awake within the dream. That's not what Buddha meant. Buddha didn't mean I'm more awake within the dream. He meant, you see, my body, but I'm outside of the dream. My body's still there, but I'm outside of the dream. I realize that I am the dreamer of the dream and I'm not there. So I can't fully say, but I do know that you tend to always smile. Things don't impact you anymore. And you have a little laugh, right, because you realize like how silly this place is. And there's been moments that I've felt that. And that's the cool thing when you start to untie the ego is you get glimpses of what it's going to feel like in words, cannot describe. That is part of the problem with people truly seeking pure true enlightenment, right, Is because we don't have words to explain it. Because why would the ego create words to explain something, to leave it, right? That is, and we've been trained our whole life. Think of the child screaming on the ground at Walmart, right? That's two years old and the parent is get up. You have nothing to be upset about. That child obviously feels like it does. But we've been taught if you don't have words or if I have not physically expressed experienced it, then it is not valid. So that is the problem with people looking for the path of true enlightenment is because they're so focused on needing something in this illusion. But the problem is it's outside of the illusion. My journey isn't to make a better dream. My journey is to wake up from this illusion. But the cool thing is in the process the dream gets a lot easier, right? Because you don't place weight and like manifesting 101, which I don't manifest because manifesting is placing weight on the illusion. But one of the things they teach you is release the weight, right? When you have weight on something, you're never going to manifest it. If I don't have weight on anything. And my perspective is that nothing is good or bad. It's a pretty nice place of peace and happiness. No matter if you are sitting on a park bench or if you have $1 billion and you're going to Mars, because you see it for what it is. And you don't need those false idols because you're not seeking salvation. And when I say salvation, happiness or peace, Right. That's our biggest problem, is you seek that externally, whether it's through your partner, your children, your money, your status, whatever it may be, you're constantly seeking your happiness outside of you. And I promise you, you will never be fulfilled that way. You will get there, and then you will need to move on to the next thing. That's why the divorce rate is so high. That is why infidelity is so high. That is why pornography is, like, through the roof in the US because people are seeking something else in those activities, and that's not where. That's not where it's located. So you gotta keep going to the next level because you can't find it there and you never will.

Hmm. Okay. Trying to think. Try this. This question. We'll see if it's any different. Like, how do you know when you're on the path of truth then? Right. How do you discern what's your ego and what is your truth? I think maybe that's a different way of asking what I was trying to get at.

Yeah. You have to make the conscious effort. Right. In the first piece is like, you have to become aware because you can't. So if you want to untie with the ego, if you have no clue how the ego shows up in your life or what it is, there's no way to untie it. Right? Right. So to know you're on the. Like, you would know. I guess that's my biggest response, Sean, is this is not in a journey that just happens, right. All of a sudden you're like, oh, wow, I'm on this journey. I'm almost to enlightenment. This is a hard. Right. This isn't easy. This is not for many, but it is a beautiful journey that you must dedicate or to be successful. It's dedication, Right. To dedicate yourself. So it's not a journey you fall into by happenstance. And usually they say you land in this journey when you get to that place in your life where you're like, there has got to be another way. Whether you say those words, whether your actions say that, but you just like me. I kept asking questions, I kept trying things and I was like this, there's got to be another way. And boom, this journey fell in my lap.

Right?

But it's not happened to you. It's a, it's super intentional because you have to be aware. The ego was so sneaky. The ego belief system. And it creeps in out of nowhere for me. And that's another reason why I created the big miracle energy community is because if you don't have other people to process with, to just share, you can easily be sucked back in because that's what you know best, that's what you remember most right now. And until you untie and start to experience it and fall into it, it's not a journey that can easily be taken alone. Monks, I don't think all monks get to enlightenment either. That's another story for another day. But they're tempting to get to enlightenment and they literally cut themselves off from everything and everyone to focus on it. Right? So that shows you right there the amount of dedication and focus it takes. This isn't something where you just go sign up for a six week course, that's $10,000 and you become enlightened. This is a journey of hiring mentors of. And it's a personal journey, right? This isn't a cult, this isn't a religion. This is a revolution of individuals remembering their relationship with this all, with everything, with the all, with the oneness, with the all. So another piece is this is not one of those things because the journey of a course in miracles, which is the journey I have found, has been turned into calls. Right? I think there's a really strong cult in Wisconsin where they're like, come live with us, give us all your money and I'll teach you how to go. If you hear run the other way. That is not the purpose of the Course in Miracles. It literally says at the beginning, this is your journey with the one. Right? This is not your journey listening to other people. But the cool part of what I do in my one on one coaching is you gotta clear out the noise first before you can really start that journey. So if I wouldn't have hired mentors and done some deep work of untying the stories, I wouldn't have been able to enter into this journey. It's almost like you gotta out the ego crap before you can then venture into truth. Because it's thick. It's like a shit sandwich. Yeah, it's, it's super thick and you.

Can'T eat a sip. Shit sandwich in One bite.

Oh, no. How's the elephant? Yeah, no. How do you eat elephant? One bite at a time.

Yep. Okay. I guess one more question around this before we move on is if someone is out there and they're like, they're in this moment where there has to be another way, and the first step is to become more aware, are there a set of consistent habits or what are you doing for the rest of your life at that point to help yourself become more aware? Do you have a system? Do you have a habit? Do you have a way of thinking or being that can help people start their own. Their personal journey of miracles?

Okay, first of all, you completely blanked out. Oh.

Oh, no. Okay, let me ask that from the.

Beginning of the question.

All right? If somebody was. Had that point in their mind at the point in their life where they're like, there has to be another way. There has to be something different, they're ready for that change. Right?

All right.

Did I freeze again?

No, you're still. It's, like, cutting out.

Oh, man.

Let's see. Try again. I think you might be back.

Okay. You hear me now?

Yeah.

Okay. So the question is, if someone is at that point in their life where they're like, there has to be a different way, right? They're ready for the change, ready for their personal journey on the course of miracles, whether that's with the program or just the metaphor for their journey.

Right.

And the first step is to become more aware. Is there a set of habits or something you're gonna be doing for a long period of time or the rest of your life to help you get clear? Because becoming aware of your ego is a big kind of nebulous thing. What is something that somebody could start doing to start that journey and start their path towards finding their true naked. So.

Yeah, so the first piece is asking where I started was like, why do I do the things I do? And even starting with the simplest questions of do you wear your shoes in the house or not? Let's say you do. Why? Why do I wear my shoes in the house? And then you start to understand, oh, because it's always been that way. My mom wore her shoes in the house. My grandma wears shoes in the house. Then you start to see how many things you are doing just because. Right? So it's super small and simple, but it begins that journey of awareness. That's not. I don't want to immediately take you to, like, why did I talk crap to my sister? Like, that's going deep quick. But instead, the surface level. And one example for me, like I said, I always eat my own dog food. That was really eye opening to for me was when I was moving to Florida, mind you, I'd really brought lots of awareness in my life and literally was unpacking 24 7, which I'm not sure is fully healthy, but it worked for me. And I was gonna buy a brand new car and I, I never wanted a white car. I always had silver cars growing up and I just white didn't seem like a thing, but I didn't know why. And I called my mom and I was looking at a silver RAV4 and I was like, mom, I'm thinking of getting a new car. She goes, oh, you better not get a white car. And I said, what? And she goes, yeah, white cars are awful. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is not my story, so bet your ass. I bought a white Rapp 4. And I absolutely love it. But I had to see for myself once I realized it wasn't my story. I had to then take a step and test the waters to see if in fact I want my story to be I don't like white cars or I don't. And yes, many listeners might be like, this is stupid. White car or not doesn't matter, it doesn't impact your life. But I am a firm believer how you do one thing is how you do everything. So if you are starting with those minute don't matter things, it's going to start to pour over into the more important things because you are, you're a high performance habit coach, right? So a high performance coach, it becomes habit, it becomes second nature. It's essentially like habit stacking in a way because you're adding it to something small you do anyway, which is a small decision, but you're asking yourself one question deeper, right? One thing deeper, and you'll just start to become more and more aware and then that'll spark your curiosity. And actually what it does is it sparks that inner child in you. You truly are a child at the core. And that is the place you want to get back to. That is actually the untying of the ego is coming back to that place of childlike innocence, curiosity and wonder. So you are unintentionally sparking that by just asking silly little questions and beginning to understand yourself.

Oh, I, I love that question. How you do things or why things are, are the way they are. And my experience and with working with folks, when you're able to do that, you start to have a little Bit more flexibility in how you approach the world. And I, I feel like we are all descendants of rigid thinking and habits. Right. And a lot of it we just inherit, like you said, we just, oh, this is just the way it was. I think of the, the turkey metaphor. Have you ever heard this where there's a family, this new family invites their parents and great and grandparents over for Thanksgiving dinner and they're have this big oven and they get the turkey and they shave off the ends and they, they put the turkey in. And then the person who's cooking dinner is like, why am I shaving off the ends? And she asks, or they ask their mom and mom's, you know what, that's just how grandma did. Right? And she shaved out the ends and then just gets curious and then asks grandma and grandma, oh, we had a small oven. We had to shave the turkey for the turkey to actually fit in the oven so we could cook it and that's why we did it. And then it's oh, like I inherited this generational habit from a constraint that no longer exists, which is pretty cool.

And then the other piece that unlocks for you, Sean, is an understanding that I choose literally everything I do, right, Everything is a choice. Like when I, my grandma always told me there are two things certain in life. Death and taxes. Taxes, you don't have to pay them. If you make the choice not to pay them, there's an outcome, Right, that you are choosing because you don't want to experience that outcome.

Yep.

And to be honest with you, this journey I am on, I've debunked her other thing. There is not death. Right. When you get to the place of enlightenment is the place of ending the cycle of birth and death and realizing your eternal being. But so anyway, if I wouldn't have asked questions, I would've never realized that I could debunk my grandma's mythology. And that goes with so many things. So when you feel like we have to cut the ends of the turkey off cuz grandma did it, if they wouldn't have got curious and asked more and more questions, they never would have found out. No, we don't. We've got a bigger oven, like we've got so much more room for more turkey and the turkey doesn't have to sacrifice its head and legs or whatever got cut off.

Exactly, exactly. Okay, one more question I have for you before we wrap up. It's could you share something on the podcast here that you haven't shared in any of your other podcast interviews or other Media or anything. I like to ask this one just to see what comes up.

Oh, geez. Trying to think. There's probably so much. But when you put me on the spot like that, it's like you try to go over in your head what you've talked about or not talked about. Oh, I do know something.

Okay.

I don't think I've talked about this. So my boyfriend and I plan to sail the world and. Cool. We are going to have a YouTube channel. I believe it's going to call Fifth Dimension, or be called Fifth Dimension Sailing. And that's another play, right? Because everybody thinks we got to get to a different dimension, when in fact there isn't. But so we, because of our way of thinking and understanding the world, they call television programming, right? Because they are literally programming you. They're literally telling you, Sean, like, you turn this on, and programming you. So we see our YouTube channel because of the way we think and how much we've deprogrammed ourselves as like a deprogramming channel. Right? So when you're watching a sale, because everybody wants to live vicariously through everyone else, right. Essentially, you can't help but hear the way we talk about things. You can't help but hear. Help but hear the way we unpack our own life and own scenarios. That channel is going to be an opportunity to deprogram people through fun, crazy activities. And the fact of the matter, too, is, like you said, it humanizes me. We are the most silly individuals you will ever meet. We make some of the raunchiest jokes. We are not what you think someone who is on the path to enlightenment is. But the cool thing is, when you're on this path, you realize how much nothing matters. So it allows you to even be more free and goofy and make fun of things that usually would maybe be offensive or taboo, but. Yeah. So that I don't think I've ever shared. And I've been on probably 40 podcasts in the last year and a half, so I don't think I've ever fully outed that. That's hopefully within the next year.

Awesome. It sounds like that'll be a lot of fun. And I'm all for people deprogramming and living their fullest Prius life, which sounds like that's what. That's going to be touching, at least a little bit. Ashley, it's been great having you on the podcast. How can the great folks follow up with you if they'd like to, after listening to our conversation?

Yeah, first of all, thank you, Sean, for having me and being just so open. That's the beauty, I think, of some podcasts, and especially yours, is that you're open to hearing even if you don't align with those thoughts. And you're gracious and you provide a place free of judgment. So I want to say thank you for that because so many people have agendas these day, these days. But if you want to get in touch with me, Big Miracle Energy.com Big Miracle Energy. YouTube. Big Miracle Energy Patreon, or I'm Ash Underscore Abramson on Instagram. And like I said before, I love conversation. I love constructive, positive, judgment, free, respectful conversations. So please hit me up if this feels like you are at that wall and you're like, there's got to be a different way. I would encourage you to check out the YouTube channel and even the Patreon channel that has a seven day free trial. Um, and there is, I think, close. Ugh, gosh, we're probably close to 20 hours now of content on there and they're in nice little bite sized segments. I think the videos on average are about 12 minutes. So the feedback I've received is it's super easy to consume and then there's a discord that goes with it. But yeah, I would love, love, love to hear from you.

All right, I'll have all that in the show.

Notes.

Again, thank you for an interesting and exciting conversation, Ashley. And we'll see you guys on the next episode of the Meaningful Revolution podcast.

Sam.