The Small Business Revolution with Gary Wilburs | Meaningful Revolution Podcast S5E5

If you could start a meaningful revolution, what would it be called and what would it look like?

Small business owners and entrepreneurs create significance. I would change it from that success that we talked about earlier, because success, everybody has a different definition, but significance is what's significant in your life. And I think the challenge a lot of people have is they go after small business ownership and they kind of get into a grind and a rut. And instead I want to help them climb that mountain of significance of what's going to matter most in their life for business ownership, number one, anyone has that capability. The biggest thing you have to do is get over the risk factor. You know, there's always a risk. I mean, I started mine when I was 21 because I just graduated college and you can say, well, it's easier then, I didn't have a family, didn't have those other things. But, but we have to decide if you want to become a business owner, you have to take that risk. So it doesn't matter if you're in your mid-30s, you're in your mid-40s, 50s, or even your 60s, you know, as long as you do your research, you have the capability. And I think that's where too many people think, oh, Gary was really lucky that, you know, he got into that when he did, or Johnny that owns the restaurant. It takes a lot of blood, sweat and tears, but you've got to be willing to first take the risk.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Meaningful Revolution podcast. I'm your host and certified high performance coach, Sean Butner. Today's guest has been in business for over 30 years, has founded more than a dozen companies, has appeared on more than 200 podcasts, and has been coaching business owners to succeed for over 10 years. He dedicates his time to helping small businesses, business owners, excuse me, move from success to significance. He's the founder of the Ascend Mastermind, a speaker, author, trainer and coach. He knows the struggles small business owners face daily and believes everyone should reach their full potential in business and in life. He's a best selling author and has written the following books, the High Achiever Leadership Formula 21 Ways to Attract, Retain and Engage Millennials. Positive Culture Wins and Cultivate Positive culture. He lives in Missouri with his wife, two sons and daughter, and is the host of the podcast Charge the Small Business Answer Man. I'd love to introduce my friend, Gary Wilbers. Gary, welcome to the podcast.

Well, thanks for having me, Sean. I'm excited about sharing with your audience today.

Me too. I'm super excited for this because the topic today going to be small B business ownership. And I'd love to hear, like, how you got caught in or started in that. And I'm kind of excited. So first off, the question I've been asking guests is if you could start a meaningful revolution, what would it be called and what would it look like?

I think it would be really that small business owners and entrepreneurs create significance. I would change it from that success that we talked about earlier, because success, everybody has a different definition, but significance is what's significant in your life. And I think the challenge a lot of people have is they go after small business ownership and they kind of get into a grind and a rut. And instead I want to help them climb that mountain of significance of what's going to matter most in their life.

Awesome. Awesome. So from your intro, you've been in business for yourself, I'm guessing, for quite a while.

Yes.

Okay, so what kind of got you started in your first business? Can you talk about where you were before that decision, that big decision a lot of people make to get into business ownership and what happened afterwards?

Yeah, that's been a few years ago, but I remember it very vividly because it was 1990 and I started selling mobile phones. Back then, it wasn't called wireless phones, you know, that we know today, and we have the computer in the palm of our hand today. But what it was was mobile phones. And we had to kind of share with people what it was. And I started selling as a direct sales rep with them, straight commission. And I had an opportunity about nine months in to actually purchase the company. Myself and another partner at that time purchased the company. The only thing is, wasn't sure I wanted to do it. Now I look back in 2012, I sold that business, was in it for 22 years. I'm so glad I did. But the thing is, is to become that business owner. I was pretty darn young, and of course a lot of people say, can you do it? But I had that belief in myself that I could. And I enjoyed selling the phones. And I felt like it was a product that was going to really continue to grow. And when you get in business, one of the best things you want is a product that's going to continue to grow because that is becomes your marketplace now. I never did see it becoming what it was, that we're going to have a computer in the palm of the hand. I wish I could tell you I had that all figured out. I knew it. I did not know that. But the old crystal ball Sometimes come to people that work hard and it decides to work hard to get there. And sometimes you got to be lucky what you do. And the thing is, it was a product and service that just continue to grow. So I seen so many changes. I mean, I remember the days that we went from bag phones to handheld phones and then we went from text messaging, you paid per message to now we hardly get phone calls. Instead we all we do is text message. So we've seen all those changes that came about, but also saw a trend in the industry. And I think that's important for business owners. There's a time that that end is there. And around 2009, 2010, no longer they were changing up. The wireless industry is still here, but they were changing up as far as dealers, how it worked. And I knew at that time that it was time for me to kind of decide what was going to be my exit. And I'll never forget I wrote down in 2011 that I wanted to sell my business by the end of 2012. And 1231, 2012, I sold my business.

Wow, that must have. So I love that story for. Because it covers so much territory right off the bat because they're talking about finding the opportunity to get in the game. Right. And I would imagine, like most people, myself included, you're a little naive going into it, like, ah, this will be great and you know, super easy probably, or things will happen for you quick. Could you maybe dig into that a little bit when you were first starting out in the cell phone business?

Yeah, because when we started, it was myself and a partner. It was two of us. We had one location. We hired our first employee probably three or six months in and you were doing everything. So you were the everything for the business. And then we got up to five employees. I remember when we stayed at, man, we've got five people on our team. You know how we've grown. When I finished, we was at 150 team members. But I think for business owners and entrepreneurs, what they've got to know is, is not only do they have to find the right people, but they have to change themselves. And I will say early on, I was not a very good boss, not a very good leader because I kind of wore everything on my sleeve. So if it was a day that Gary was really happy, everybody was happy in the office. The visit Gary, that day, Gary was really mad. Oh my gosh. I infected the whole office office with my attitude. So one thing I think people have to realize is just like we do in life and to have those meaningful conversations, meaningful revolutions, we've got to be willing to change ourselves. And I think that's the thing that I'm most proud of, if anything, that through the years, I changed. Sean. I have this story where I had an employee go to work for me. I live in a smaller town, so Jefferson City. A lot of people know each other. And I had this employee that worked for me. And it was during the mean times that I say I wasn't a very good boss. And I had those moments. And of what it was, well, few years later, there was another employee going to go to work for me. And this person knew him, and this other one had already quit and left me. And he says, do you know Gary? And he goes, yeah, I know Gary. He goes, you know what kind of boss he is? He says, well, he, in the interview went real well. I'm kind of real excited about this. He goes, well, let me know how that goes. Three months later, he told me he saw this guy. He says, man, I don't know what you're talking about. Gary's a great boss. But I had went through that change, that revolution of myself instead of demanding. And my mood created everything. I changed who I was, realizing that my attitude, my leadership affects everybody in the organization. And I truly believe that we would have never grown from 5 to 10, to 25 to 50, to 100, 150 people if I would have stayed who I was, because, number one, nobody would want to work for me. Number two was I couldn't have led them because I was just. It was more about demand. It was do what I say, not what I do. So when we see in life we need to make changes. That's the key. And I think that's the thing you and I both love about high performance. We know even people that are successful, it's about getting to that next level of performance. And that's what I'm so excited about. And I think business owners have to realize that. And if there's ever a time we have to change, it's right now. The world is changing. And it doesn't matter if you're in business, if you're in education, if you're in government, anyone, you have to change the adapt to the time versus saying why I don't want to. And I think that's the key is really, how do you want to change as a person? How do you want to change as a leader? And not just professionally, but also personally.

It's so powerful. And it's a theme that's come up on the podcast regularly now where especially we talk about people that are in leadership that, you know, the most important thing you can do is to I guess essentially put the mask on first. Like you're on an airplane. Like you need to do the work on yourself to figure out your blind spots, to figure out where you need help, to figure out where you're strong and where you can help guide people. So it's always really cool to kind of see that through line, through, through content. So is there anything in particular? I'm just super curious where, like how did you go about that process? So you had that okay, like need to change. And I know everyone knows that change can be really difficult, you know, especially when maybe you're going with ingrained personality or you've been your certain way for 20 years, 30 years, 10 years, however long did you have a particular mentor or method to help you realize what was going on and then make the necessary changes.

Couple things I did. One, I dug a lot deeper into self development. I was a big Franklin cubby pack person in the 90s, still loved their material and I went through focus and the seven habits of leadership. So I went through these courses, learned extended disc. I'm not a certified facilitator for that because I loved it so much. It talks about the styles of communication and what style are you? And realizing as a leader I can't communicate only for my style. I need to be able to flex to other people's styles. So really got into that self development. I did have a business coach that helped me with a lot of this too. Because you become more self aware when you work with someone else. When I think that's the key of what you do. What I do, Sean, when we work with people, we make them more self aware of themselves. They discover it themselves within them, but then they can make those changes. And then some of it was a gradual move, some of it was a little quicker. But then I picked up reading. I love reading books now. I love writing books too, but I love reading and learning. And I think that's became the key because I got, I mean this was an early 90s, so I just got finished college and I was a year out of college becoming a business owner. And the thing is it was easy to say, well, I'm tired of school, you know, I'm tired of learning because you know, I just finished my degree, you know, but I did the hard knocks learning, you know, the business ownership learning. And we made a lot of mistakes early on, but we Worked hard to be able to overcome them. But then I also realized I've got to improve myself because if I want to up my game and I have people look back all the time and they. I'll hear this storyline and I'm okay with it. But they'll say, man, you sure got in that at the right time. Well, they don't realize the amount of time and effort. You know, we don't become overnight success. You know, the 10 first 10 years from 1990 to 2000s. I mean, there was a lot of peaks and valleys in there, but the thing is, you got to be willing to go through them. And then I had my own peaks and valleys there with the challenges that I had. You know, I gained 30, about 75 pounds. I was 275 pounds at one time. And I decided to make that change because it was causing too much stress for me. And. And then as I got married, you know, children started coming along. Those changes that go in life, we all go through those, but how are we willing to look at it? And I think for business owners, the biggest thing they've got to realize is they get an overwhelm and chaos in bed. They're trying to find that, seek that peace and precision. But the thing is, is you don't find that unless you find it for yourself first. And I think that's the key is, look, you know, my grandma used to always say, if you point your finger at someone, there's three pointing back at you. So we have to really look at ourself first.

Yeah, I mean, I. It's 100% true, you know, and like you said earlier, like, we both are in this work as high performance coaches. So that's. This is what we. This is our bread and butter. Like, this is what we do all the time. So I am curious now with that looking inward with people having to do the work on themselves. And we're coming out of a very, you know, chaotic time with the pandemic. And, you know, there's a lot that we could talk about. There's a lot of things. But what I really think went on, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on it, is we went from a time of certainty to a time of uncertainty. And that time of uncertainty caused a lot of people, A lot of people had time to reflect for the first time in their lives. You know, I had new people that worked two jobs, and now all of a sudden they're like, what am I doing with my life? That kind of stuff. You know, it's Been a great time for people to think, like, what do I really want in life? Legacy, that, that kind of stuff. And now we're kind of coming out of it where there's some people stuck and still being really fearful with the pandemic and everything's going on with the economy. Now we got people, some people are starting to like, double down and be like, okay, it's time to work. It's to time time, like to ride this wave. So when the economy swings back, we're in a good position to take advantage of that. As a business owner, as someone that's been through this global pandemic, what are your thoughts about today versus all the, the upheaval of the last couple years?

I think the thing is you have to realize there's never been a better time. I'm going to talk about business ownership, but even for yourself, because we have so many tools, resources available, but you have to find what works for you. When I work with my business owners and entrepreneurs, I talk about four categories. I want to talk about their health because it's time to get in your best health that you've ever been. But you've got to make that decision to do that. And number two, I talk to them about their wealth. And wealth doesn't mean just their business, because a lot of business owners, they think all their wealth is tied up in their business. Well, what if that fails? Then the problem is everything goes down. So I want you to have wealth in your business, but also want you to decide how are you creating multiple sources of income for yourself, and you decide what that is. You know, we all love passive income. If it can be rental properties, you can decide what that is. But what are other ways that you can make that? And there are so many more opportunities. And the thing is, you don't even have to be a business owner to get those additional opportunities. There's available, they're available for the individual too, if they want to go out there and seek it. Because there's people that's going to share those talents and ways and resources to be able to get there. The third one I always look at is their connections. You know, you and I reconnected again at a high performance at a conference, you know, because we took the time to go to the conference and otherwise we would have not connected. We connected another time at a previous high performance conference. So what are you doing to connect with people and who are those people that can help you on your journey? There's people that's willing to mentor, people willing to help others. But the thing is, you've got to put yourself out there to find those. So who's those connections? And then the last one, I think, is ultimately, what's your contribution? What do you want to give? I think we're asking these questions of, should I keep doing this? Should I not do this? What should I do? And we have to seek that for each one of us. But the thing is, is ultimately we are meant to be contributors to society, not takers from society. So the question you have to ask is, what are you willing to give? I mean, you work with your clients. That's part of your contribution. But I know you do other things. But just like this podcast, you're not getting paid to do this, but you're trying to share knowledge with others to be able to give them that information, and that becomes a contribution that you're giving others. So what do we want to leave the world? And how do we want to leave it a better place? And I think when we start to answer those tough questions for ourselves and really think about it, journal whatever works best for you, but journaling works for me, then we start to seek those and we realize we have the capability. I'm tired of people saying that they can't do anything. Well, it's the economy. It's this. Well, I'll tell you right now, if we're going to go through a recession, here's what I've decided. I'm not participating in the recession. If we're going to go in one, I've decided I'm not going to participate. So guess what my mindset is what then? To go out and generate business and continue to do it. So the thing is, you have that capability. If you're working for someone, you may not have that capability, but they come to you that tomorrow and say you're laid off. You do have the ability to go seek another position or decide to go in business for yourself or whatever it is. So realize your circumstance is not dictated by someone else. Don't play the victim. You've heard that before. Instead, play the hero of your own story, but write your own story, because we're all going to come to the day, you know, that our story's going to end. What do you want that storyline to be? And that would be the thing I would say is go out and write your storyline.

Yeah, I love that. And to piggyback on that, I think another question to just add some fire to it, is if you have kids or you want kids or there's family Members or people that look up to you, what kind of person do you want to be in your story for them? Do you want to be the person that said, you know, what this bad thing happened to me and I gave up, or the person that said, I could figure this out, or. And so I love that. Those questions, those types of things, that ownership that, you know, extreme ownership of what you're able to do and you're more capable than you think, you know, in a lot of cases.

And you and I didn't get where we wanted overnight. No, it's a journey, it's a destiny. You know, you're not trying to ultimately get the destination. It's the journey that you're going on and realize, you know, I could tell you a story, my 75 pounds, you know, on that. And I tell, I tell that story a lot. But the reason I tell it people is not because I lost weight, but that you can do it too, or that next person can do it, that they have that capability. Did I have to change some things? You better believe it. I like food, man. I changed my eating habits. I didn't call it dieting. I changed my eating habits. So you have the capability within yourself. And I think that's the thing people forget about sometimes. We get. Our society has become too much that we're reliant on someone else. You know, we were made as self. We have that capability within ourselves.

Yeah, 100%. And so I'm trying to think like, as you. So I love this agency and I agree with it. If you were to think about a couple of folks that do small business, really great, either locally or more well known, what are some influences or places where you find inspiration? Because I, I feel like we all have those moments too, when something happens in life that's uncontrollable. And there's a little bit allowance of like, oh, this really sucks. This is terrible. I don't. What am I gonna do? Like. And the trick is to, like, not get stuck there, but to then turn over and be like, okay, let's get inspiration. Let's get into action. Let's figure this out. So do you have a couple of people you look up to or that have influenced you? You mentioned Franklin Covey, which is a great, like, training system.

Yeah. On business ownership, be honest. You know, back in the early 8, late 80s and 90s, I worked for a company in the late 80s, and you know, the one thing I've seen is companies that reinvent themselves. And, you know, there's a lot of Companies have done that with the pandemic. You know, business had to be changed. You know, you saw restaurants, no longer could serve people in their place. So they had to decide, am I going to do carryout or just close down during this time frame? And I saw so many of those examples. And it doesn't have to be just because of the pandemic, but how are you reinventing your company? And that's the ones that I really tag on to. You know, a company that's been in business over 100 years, but they reinvented their selves every decade, they take a hard look at where they're at and where they want to go. And I think that's the key because too many business owners, sometimes a challenge you get into. You know, I own my wireless business for 22 years. You think I'm just going to do it the same way? Well, I believe in business you're doing either two things. You're either going forward or you're going backwards. To me, there's no neutral business. And you could say that in life a lot of times too, the same way. But what are you doing? But the companies that I think have been successful, you look at it, and if they're not changing and adapting, they will go by the wayside, you know, and today's success stories will become tomorrow's failures on that part of it. So if you're thinking in that area, what do you need to do to kind of reinvent yourself? And when I say reinvent, I'm not saying you have to change your whole business model. But just think about the Internet today. You know, if you're a company and say, all I'm gonna do is brick and mortar, and I'm a brick and mortar store and that's who I am, I don't want that Internet thing. I mean, you're passing up a large majority of business because number one, if you have a product or service that you can offer outside of your little area, just think what the Internet does now. I can, I can sell that product or service to the world. I mean, just think how that can change a business. So that's what I see. No, I can't give you a perfect spit perfect example that. But I've seen it with companies that just reinvent themselves. And I think that's the real key.

Sean, I agreed you had a previous life. I was a software engineer for Walmart working at the corporate office down in Northwest Arkansas. And I think it was probably one of the most well managed companies that I had Seen personally with the investment in people with always thinking, what's coming? How are we going to get our lunch handed to us? I remember. So I was there in like 2007 to 2012 and about 2010, they're like, this thing, Amazon's coming and we need to fight it and we need to figure it out. And you can guess, you know, have they responded appropriately or effectively enough? Maybe, maybe not. But they've been in the game trying to. They did not give up that space, which is always super, super cool. That's super cool.

It's, it's, it's a great example because failures actually with that. But really, what was it Jet or the company they bought that has really made a difference, from what I understand. I've not looked at their numbers and stuff, but now they're starting to get it down and it's because they ended up buying something where they tried to do it themselves, from what I understood, and really had a lot of failures there. But then they reinvented and said instead of just living with the failure and saying, well, we're not going to figure this Internet thing out, they said, we've got to figure it out. Yeah, great example.

And yeah. And they acquired. Yeah, Jet, like you said, to turn, to turn that around a bit. And I worked on the old dot com logistics side, so I know how much effort and how tricky that, like, it's a tough, tough thing.

Yeah.

You don't want to be a Barnes and Nobles. That kind of didn't do it. And now where are they? They're not around anymore.

So you don't see those stores.

No. So I'm curious, do you have a belief about small business ownership that isn't. It's a little bit, what I try to say, counter to common, like knowledge or a little bit less intuitive for folks or a little bit more unique, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.

I think my biggest is really is getting people to realize that for business ownership, number one, anyone has that capability, the biggest thing you have to do is get over the risk factor. You know, there's always a risk. I mean, I started mine when I was 21 because I just had graduated college and you can say, well, it's easier then I didn't have a family, didn't have those other things. But we have to decide if you want to become a business owner. You have to take that risk. So it doesn't matter if you're in your mid-30s, if you're in your mid-40s, 50s, or even your 60s, you've got to get over that fear factor. And I hate the word fear, and it's been said before, it's not mine, but false evidence appearing real. You know, as long as you do your research, you have the capability. I think that's where too many people think, oh, Gary was really lucky that, you know, he got into that when he did. Or Johnny that owns the restaurant. It takes a lot of blood, sweat and tears, but you've got to be willing to first take the risk. And I think that's the overcomer that I think most people need to realize is it's within themselves. So it goes back to what we talked about earlier, really is that belief in self and having that self awareness. If you're willing to do that, you can become a business owner. And then my other belief is I think all businesses should give back that contribution side. They can decide what it is for them. In my company, I'm very active with Special Olympics Missouri. But even when I had my wireless company, I mean, we did the polar plunges as teams. That was our give back to saying we want to help our community be better. And if all businesses did that, just think how our communities would be in such better shape of taking care of each other instead of relying on someone else to take care of them.

Absolutely. So I'm curious. So we were talking a lot about smaller business people getting in entrepreneurship. What do you think or believe about the differences between small business and big business? Because part of it, and this is kind of agnostic to smaller big business, but we're talking a little bit about kind of like a business ethic of give back to the community, which is like, we need more of that. I do believe. I think small businesses are in a greater position maybe a lot of times to do that because they're in the local communities. They're not, you know, one company with, you know, covering all the states, and each state is its own little different country. You know, having lived in the Midwest and out west and down south myself. So how do you think that there's the diff, there's differences between small and big business, and maybe where do they fit into society as a larger piece? I don't know. Try that.

Okay. Well, I think the small business is the backbone because it's still, you know, where you see the big businesses. The challenge is for the people side of it and for the customers, because the big businesses, you're gonna always have them. But I'm a small business guy, so I'm gonna give my pitch Here is small business. The difference is you're not a number. I just had a client that was in here and they just hired an employee. I mean, to him, he knows that livelihood's there. And the sad part about sometimes big business, what they do, they become a number and okay, we need to cut 10% of our workforce. 10% gets cut. It doesn't matter who you are or what they determine the factors and everything else. But in a small business, even when times get tough, they know they may only have 10 employees, they probably would like to reduce their salary and their overhead, but they're going to keep that person on because of the long term effect of it. So I think the difference you get in small businesses, you get that more of that relationship, one on one. And that's where small business owners can make a difference in their community because then they get their people involved in that. And I understand big business, I mean, they help and they support causes. I'm not saying that at all. But like you said, they're local in their community, so they can do it in that local community, that local area. But I think that's the key is small business owners, they always think, well, I can't get that person because I don't have as good of benefits, or I don't have this or I don't have that. And I always tell my small businesses, you need to tout your benefits. You know, sometimes being smaller, I mean, like this person that my client just hired, one of the things that he was attracted to, he worked for a big major corporation before and then he went to stay home with his kids, which was very admirable and everything else, but he's ready to get back in the workforce. And one of the things that appealed to him, there's 10 people in this business and you know what, if one or two of them don't show up, that business notices big time. In a corporation of 10,000, if one or two people don't show up, there's really nothing changes. So the thing is in a small business you can make that impact. So as far as employees, that's what I see is they get to make a greater impact in that. And you know, it's not going to be corporate philosophy. You know, a business owner, if you got a problem, you go straight to them and you say, hey Gary, I got this problem. And I think that's become some of the key. So small business, that's what I see. Corporate side of it, it's needed, it's there. But still small business, every Time we go into a recession, small business is normally the ones that help bring us out of a recession. Resilience.

Yeah. Yeah.

I.

Trying to think of anything to add there that's perfect and aligned with my beliefs, too. Like, I always, when I'm alone, walking, thinking to myself, like, like, trying to think like, is there like an optimal mix of small to big business? Because there are like. Like there is a role for everyone to play and it's not that one's better over the other. Like, like you said, having worked at a lot of very large companies myself, and then, you know, being an entrepreneur, but the feeling of having a bigger impact, you know, as a business owner, as someone working in a small business, I think is another huge selling point of, like, you, you're doing everything and if somebody comes to help you, like, that can really change your impact. It can change your outreach, it could change your revenue. It could. You know, those ripple effects go on and on and on. So that's pretty awesome. So I always. I've been trying to incorporate a current event, and so here's a hot topic that I'd love your take on from a leadership standpoint. So we could get out of this is good or bad or whatever. But, you know, a lot of people have been talking about Twitter. I'm, you know, from the tech world. I worked at Apple, so I get big tech a little bit and I'm always keeping up on it. And so I'm curious, like, what are your thoughts? If you've been following it at all, Maybe not. That's also a very valid thing. What's been going on from an organizational standpoint since Elon Musk took over Twitter?

Yeah, you can see it's definitely changed the philosophy, the hierarchy of what sounds like or what I've read and what I've seen. There was a big hierarchy there, structure, and he's tearing down some of those walls, is what I would say. And of course, normally when that happens, you know, hierarchy doesn't like that. You know, one of the first things he did was the force of four or five top people. You know, he sent down, leaving and stuff. So the thing is, the question is, is, is he creating chaos or is he creating the longevity of the company? And the one thing is, the few articles I have read on Elon Musk is I don't think he's doing anything by chance. I think he has a strategy. I'm not saying it's right yet or it's wrong, because right now we don't know. But from Some of the numbers I have read, some of the things he has done. He's increased traffic to Twitterland, if you like it or if you dislike it. So you can be either way. But what has he done? He's created awareness on his platform and got more people to go to see what's going on. Now the question will be in the leadership as far as internally, can he bring that together with a group of people that gets him to that destination? Because like I said, I don't think he's doing what he's doing by happening. Number one, the amount of money he spent. I understand he's a billionaire, but still, billionaires don't like to lose billions. You know, they normally do something to make money, not to lose it and things of that nature. So it's going to be an interesting piece to feel out, but I think it's changing the culture of internally in the organization too. And sometimes to get where you want to go, you've got to change that. So it does create chaos in the beginning, but it'd be interesting to see in a year, two years, you know, if they're still in chaos, it's going to be a problem. But if the chaos is over and now he has that direction defined of where it's going to go, then of course that's going to create a total challenge. And the tough part there is there's people that got involved in that because leadership, but of course that's a large organization. So it was kind of like he knew right away. He knew there was going to be a level percentage of people that he was going to cut out because he had to, because they were losing money. Was it 5 million a day or whatever the number was? Yeah, that they were losing per day. Now, there's not many people that want to keep running a business that losing that kind of money each and every day. And I'm sure they're still bleeding yet now, but I think there's that plan. So it's going to be really interesting to see. So it's kind of a. It's a unique leadership style. It's almost like creating chaos to be able to get to where I think he wants to go. The part I can't tell you at this point. It'd be interesting when we did this a year from now, Sean, where they're at at that point in time. I agree.

It's been super fascinating being a little bit closer and like the tech world, it feels like, yes, there's been a lot of chaos. It seems in some Circumstances, it's been a little bit like. And with big changes like this, I'm sure we can talk about big changes in business. You know, I, I think there's a way to do it where you're not inflicting extra harm. And I think that'll be a question that comes out in the next year. As, as you're saying, like, did. Was this exactly what was necessary and it was a deep cut or was it a little overboard? Regardless, it's been super fascinating and yeah, I, I have no idea where it's gonna go. Hopefully. I'm hoping that it makes, Gives the platform more direction and you know, as, as things calm down that, that equals out, but we'll see.

Yeah, the question would be, is if part of what he's doing is to figure out what the direction should be for the platform.

That is.

Yeah, you know, I, I don't know. I mean, but you think, you know, is that part of his philosophy is, okay, we're seeing how both sides come at this. So then does it give us a direction? No one. Okay, now's our lane. Because let's be honest, in social media land, it is pretty crowded too, in that land. And you know, the land they were on was not, you know, a winning strategy at that time. So it's, it'll be really interesting to watch as this plays out because, you know, how many social media platforms can we have, let's be honest, you know, already sucking a lot of destruction, distraction, time away and things of that nature. So it'll be, it will be fun to watch as this continues on.

Definitely. Okay, let's see, what's the next best question here? If someone were to get started in, you know, wanted to start a business, take their destiny into their own hands, take on that risk, what would be like two or three things that you'd suggest for them to think through or to do before they jumped into starting a business?

First one is not to just jump in, do your research, do your homework, you know, because too many people that get excited about, they think they're a good cook, so they want to own a restaurant. They forget, though, on a restaurant, even if you do lunch and dinner, you probably have to be there at 8 o' clock at night and you don't leave till midnight. So know what it takes to get into that business and do your research, do your homework. Because something that you're good at doesn't mean that should be your business ownership. It could be, but the thing is, make sure you know that going in. But I Think when we do the research, then we know. The other thing I think is the second one is really, look, what is the market right now? I mean, where companies have been successful is they're finding the gaps in the market. You know, if it's being well served and done very good, then of course you may not want to go in that same exact market. The question is, is what not is being served in that marketplace and that becomes that gap. And that gap is where now there's an opportunity and stuff, because you're looking at what that opportunity is for that business. So that would be my second one. And then the third one is depending how you're going to finance it or go about doing it, if you're going it alone, then making sure you've got at least 12 months of your savings built up to where you can live if you have no revenue coming in. And you know, Dave Ramsey and others talk about six months of living expenses. Well, if you're going into the business ownership, I would take that up to a minimum of 12. Because the problem is when you first get started, you're not going to make a sale right out. Or the other option is, along with that is do it as a side hustle until you make the revenue that you're making from your day job before you leave. But there's many of opportunities. But I think the biggest thing people do is what I see is they get in the business and it was their passion. And then they realize, oh, I didn't know it took this much work and stuff. Because the thing about a business ownership, you don't just put in your 40 hours or 50, whatever you did at your job, you've got to do whatever it takes. And you realize, wow, you're really never off. I mean, I'm going to go on vacation next week, but it doesn't mean I'm off. There's things I'll still have to attend to for my business. So we have to understand those differences. And I think that's the biggest thing. And if you can observe or get a mentor, go to someone that's in a business, let them mentor you or share some of their struggles or challenges with you, that's the best thing to do. And the thing is, you may think, well, I don't know, they. They're so busy, they want to do it. That's one of the greatest pleasures I get, Sean, when someone calls me and says, hey, I'd like to talk business with you. I know you've been very successful, and number one, you Know what do they do? They just plug my ego. Yeah, I like that. No, but it's not that, but that business owner, they're going to love to sit down with you and tell you some challenges, but have good questions. Don't just go to them and say, oh, you know, I wanted to know about business, can you tell me about it? Oh, get some specific questions. What was your greatest challenge when you started? Some of the things we talked about at the very beginning. What was, you know, what would you give as your top three advices If I decided to get in business, you know, those type of things. You know, if you can talk to two, three, five people, then you've got a lot of information. Now you can decide should you go forward or not.

Right.

That would be my top.

Right. I'm curious too on this topic. Are there specific skills that maybe you were surprised you needed to develop as you were going in the business that you didn't have? I mean sales is, you know, a very business oriented job on numbers and you know, so you're getting to the heart of what brings money in. But there's so much more to making a business run than just calling up customers and getting people to buy stuff. So what other skills or things that maybe you found surprising in your story or that you've identified in your expertise over the years that people really should. Oh, am I good at this?

Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. I tell you, one of the things I think people have to do, number one, is sales is number one. Because the thing is no one's going to sell your product unless you do. And I'm sure you've seen that in your business. You know, I can't just put up an ad or put up a, you know, social media post and hope, pray that I get some business. No, you're going to have to sell it. So number one, know in sales and if you say, well, I'm not a very good salesperson, well then guess what, that's one of the areas you're going to have to learn. I mean, I'm trying to improve my skills on that. Be quite honest, even right now, still today, because I can always improve that. So sales, the 1/2 one I think is really important is finance, is understanding your numbers and understanding your business. So many business owners, I'll get this. Well, you know, I don't like doing that. And you know, they look at the bottom line and see at the end of the year or end of the month, did they make any money. You've got to know what's your inflow and your outflow, what your operational costs are. And you don't have to understand financial statements so deep. That's what a accountant does. But you got to understand where those coming from. And are you making any money on that? Because if you're selling a widget for a thousand dollars, but it's costing you 1,500 to make, something's not right here. So you've got to be able to figure that out. So to me, finances is really important. And the third one in business ownership, I think is a real key is operational operations. And one thing that I'll admit I'm not very good at, but you got to have someone that can document, and I don't mean document that. They have to be hard copy. But how do you get when you have someone doing a job or a role within your company that if the one thing big companies are good about? When you left Walmart, Shawn, they found someone else to fill your seat, and they knew what that role was and how to train them and put them in. In small businesses, one of our challenges is we have that person and all the knowledge is tied into that person. So you've got to create the operations and the processes to be able to take it past the person that's actually doing the job. And I think that's a real challenge for small businesses that get going. You know, there's some others, but those are three big ones that you've got to know when you're getting in business. You know, right along with sales goes marketing, you know, and how you're pricing things, they all fall together. But those three big ones, if you don't, if you know your finances, if you can sell your product and you get your operations put together and processes, you're gonna have a pretty successful business.

It reminds me of a quote from Sam Walton that said that sales can paper over a lot of mistakes. And so, yeah, as you're listening to this, folks, I hope you've wrote, wrote those down and are thinking of questions you can ask those mentors or people in your community that have blazed the path before you on how do you do sales? Or what was the most important lesson in sales? Or how do you know when the business is going good or not? Simple questions can go a super long way. So I'm curious now, is there anything that you haven't shared on another podcast or in some of your content or books before that you could share with the folks today?

I think the biggest is, we talked about it earlier but start with yourself, you know, start with that person. The one thing I think you're going to put up there is I'm going to give you the opportunity. If you want to get my book, I'll give it to you free. All you've got to do is pay the shipping and handling on it and stuff. But it's positive. It's cultivate positive culture. It's 10 actions to faithful living. And the first action, I'm not going to go through all 10 of them. But first action is, what, what do I want my message to be? And if I ask myself that question, then that allows me to decide who do I want to become? And when we ask those questions, then guess what? We can create the goals, the action plans to ultimately get to be that person. And so I want you to think, what do you want your message to be? You know, we all have a number. I was born in 1967. I don't have a problem. Say it. And there's a dash. And right now I don't know that other number. Hope it's a long time from now. But none of us know what that is. But what do I want that message to be when that other number does come up? Because right now I'm living in that dash. So how am I living that, my message? And when I talk about that, I don't mean just in business ownership or entrepreneurship. I mean for your family, your friends, the people that you love, you know, at some time, the will they come? You know, they say normally you get less than 10 people besides outside your family that will actually come to your funeral, where if you have where you're buried, that they'll go to that service. They may come to the wake, but less than 10 people will come then. So the question you have to ask yourself, how am I impacting people? How will I get them to show up for me? And if I'm impacting people, I think you'll have 20 or 30 or 40 or 50, whatever that number is. So how do you want that to look? And that comes with that message that you're going to share with someone and you give them that message that you want, that you're living that message, that you're not just saying it, you actually have to go live it. And that's the hard part. I mean, I struggle with it every day. I know who I want to be. I want to be a servant leader for others. You know, hopefully on this podcast, I served you. Yeah, I love doing podcasts. But ultimately I'm here hoping that one person, two people, three, whatever that number is, takes one item. We talked about a lot today. It takes one item and they take action for their self. I feel like I've done my job then of serving others and that's one of the things I want to do, is serve people.

Right on. I was actually going to ask you because, you know that question like, what is your message? Is stuff philosophers have tried to figure out time and time again. You could spend your whole life trying to figure that out. You know, I got into coaching and out of the tech world because I wanted to serve in some capacity. And I'm like, I can figure this out, but I don't know exactly what that that message is. Just heeding that call to service. So, you know, I, I think it's also important that it's not going to be, you're gonna decide it one day and just let's it forever. It's gonna morph. You're going to peel back that onion. You're like, I think it's this. And you're like, yeah, it was half it and then. But you're a little bit more clear as you go along. So, yeah, I just wanted to point that out that, you know, I'm still working on what is my message? What's my message for this podcast? Like, I've been doing this for three months and it's changed a bajillion times. So.

I'm changing, I'm still changing, you know, every, every day, every month, a year. You know, I'm looking at that right now. You know, what do I want it to morph through in this next year? And I think that's the key is to continue to look at it. It shouldn't be a one time message. It's what is that time? You know, I'm going to, I'm empty nester now with my kids. Their last two are in college. One of them is graduating this year and one's already out and the third one is a junior. So, you know, that changes by your life and where you're at. If you've got young children, that message is different than what it is for people that have grandchildren and just realize let that message ebb and flow. That's a great point, Shawn.

Right on. Thanks. Yeah. All right, so we've covered so much ground today. I am, I have like a whole ton of notes. I hope every. I always forget to tell people to take notes at the beginning of the podcast. If you've been with me, you probably have caught on by now. If you're joining us for the first time, you know, go listen to it again. But in the show notes, I'll put down some links on how people can follow up with you. But what is the best way for people to find you out on the the web or in the world? I guess.

Yeah, I'm on the social media channel, so you can check those. But probably on my website is the best place. And it's go Ascend. It's G O A S T E N D biz B I Z. That's probably the easiest place. Or just check me on social media. We're on LinkedIn, we are on Twitter, we're on Facebook and we're on Instagram, so you can check me out on any of those areas too.

Right on. So goascend biz down in the show notes. Gary, thank you so, so much for being on the podcast today. Yeah, it's got my head going like spinning, so I'm trying to like be present here for the interview and I'm like, I got a whole bunch of journaling queued up in my world too. So thanks, man. It's good connecting with you and hopefully we'll have you back in a year to talk about what happened at Twitter, among other things.

That'd be great. And Sean, thank you for serving the people you serve and putting this out there. And the one thing I want people to know is if you enjoy this podcast, like, and share the podcast with others, because Sean's serving people and he's serving you. So please give him some of them. Like, give him. That's the best thing. As podcasters, when we see people that they, they like it and they share it, give him a review, those type of things, that makes all the difference in the world to us and stuff. But thank you for serving your people and putting this out to people and letting them learn from you, because they're doing that right there. They're getting that self awareness just by listening to us. So great job, Sean.

Oh, thank you, thank you. And go check out Charge Gary's podcast to keep spreading the love, guys, with that. Thank you again so much. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Meaningful Revolution podcast. Go out there, live with more joy, growth and impact, you know, and start your businesses, get operational. Do all the things we talked about today and we'll see you in the next episode.

Guys.

Take, take care. I hope you loved this episode of the Meaningful Revolution podcast. And if you did, please share this with 3 of your friends to get the word out and direct them to Apple Podcasts to subscribe and leave a comment because that's what really helps us with the show. So you can also direct them to Spotify or Google. So most major podcasting platforms you can find the Meaningful Revolution podcast. So but Apple helps us out the most. So please direct your folks to there if you would if you would like to start your personal meaningful revolution, I have some exciting news. This year we're starting the Meaningful Revolution Challenge. First one being the first week in January. So sign up in the link below in the show notes here to spend three days for free. Live with me where we'll go over defining and getting clarity on your personal meaningful revolution, that fulfilling transformation, that authentic self to show up in this next year. We'll spend on the second day building your plan so that you know what you need to do to make strides towards that personal meaningful revolution. And then thirdly, we'll talk about tips, tricks and strategies to implement and to commit to your plan next year. So those are the three days we'll have prizes. There'll be a chance to ask questions. There'll be a chance to, you know, get some coaching if you need some in your particular situation to get you in the game, to get you moving forward, to get you into that meaningful revolution, that fulfilling transformation. Also, if you'd like some one on one time, there's two options also below here where you can sign up for a strategy session and the free strategy session I'll post on YouTube as part of a new series. Full disclosure there. But during that call you will get, you know, you'll fill out an application. It'll help you think about your life in a different way, get you kind of primed for our one hour strategy session. It gives me a chance to identify some areas to focus on so that you get the most bang out your buck. During that call we go we build you a personalized strategy plan going forward with tools and tricks and habits and and all that kind of great stuff and it's all focused and customized to your life. So definitely click on that if you're like, hey, I don't want this on YouTube, I'd like it a little bit private. It's $200 for that one hour call. Please make sure you sign up today because I only have so many slots each week where I can do these calls and they fill up quick. So don't miss your chance to get one on one coaching. Get your strategy plan, your strategy session locked in by clicking on those links below.

Sa.