EP 147 - Unlocking Leadership Secrets: Trust or Performance? with Sonya Shelton

New leaders, when they step into that position, they think they have to be a certain way and people see through it. They know that that's not you. Totally transparently. I had a terrible coach. I've actually had somebody fire themselves out of this process.

Before we jump into this episode, I'd love to invite you to be a part of the community where you can listen to more content to help you be a smarter, stronger and better equipped, successful leader. All you have to do is hit that subscribe button. I would love and appreciate your support. It's amazing to me to watch the community grow and read all of your comments each and every week. I can't wait to go on the journey with you. Thank you so much and it means the world to me. Welcome back to the Impact Driven Leader podcast. This is your host, Tyler Dickerhoof. So glad you're joining me today. And my special guest, Sonia Shelton. She is going to really guide us and help us and understand what it means to be a true leader. Real quick, Sonia. Sonia is a person who has coached many successful business executives in the world. She was former executive at Disney working in the internal communications. We're going to get into that, how spicy that can get. But as well, she's a successful speaker, a best selling author, she's on the Forbes coaching council. I could go on and on and on about the achievements, the accolades and give credibility to Sonya, but I'm going to let her words really present that. Sonia, so glad you're here.

Thank you for inviting me. I'm excited for our conversation today.

So I want to just jump off, we're going to get into this. You wrote the book, you're an executive, but are you a leader? And I think the real question that I want to start with to frame this in for everyone is how do you define true quotes, true leadership?

Yes. I think I wrote the book title to be a little bit provocative. Right. Because I think there is a difference between having a title and being a leader. You can be a leader without having a title and you can have a title without being a leader. Right?

Yeah.

And so what does it mean to me? To be a leader means that people are following you, that you have influence, that they're looking to you for direction and where to go. And not from a micromanaging, not like a step by step necessarily in some cases it might be, but really to set that inspiration, that vision, where are we going rallying people towards that. And you can have a leadership position like an executive to do that or you can just Be an individual contributor, but have that influence in the organization where people are interested in what you have to say, are interested in your perspective, and they want to follow what you're doing.

When you talk about this from leadership and then that influence, what does that mean within a workplace? I mean, I'm an executive. I have the title now. What does it mean to influence someone?

Yeah. So I think the first is starting with leading yourself. Right. So especially when you do have a title like an executive, I say that every person in a leadership position has their own version of paparazzi. Right. They're looking at everything that you do. Is your walk matching your talk, is what you're saying, what you're doing. Right. And so really coming from that place of first leading yourself and understanding that you're always on stage, that people are always looking to you, looking at you to see what you're going to do. Right. And how you're going to respond.

Yeah.

So. And I think a lot of. A lot of people in management or executive positions don't realize that. And at least the people that I work with, they're kind of shocked because they, you know, they just see themselves as any other person. And that's not how it works. Right. That's not human nature when you have a title like that. Right. They're looking, they're observing everything that you're doing, and they're questioning, can I trust you and can I trust you to follow you and believe in you and believe what you're saying?

So much in my experience, and I imagine you've had this as well, working in large corporations with executives. Disney is that leaders almost presented this like, you don't need to worry about my personal life. Whatever I tell you to do, that's what's important. Anything outside of that, it doesn't matter. But we see that that absolutely does matter. It's the difference in how well organizations have done through great resonation moving forward is it's how transparent, how authentic, how, you know, just real leaders are. And so when you talk about this, leading yourself, how does that show up for a leader? What does that mean? And then why is that important?

Yeah, I think especially over the past. I've been doing this a long time. Right. So the past decades, you know, I think it was sort of looked down. If you showed your personal side, you showed any vulnerability. Right. You had to be completely buttoned up and always look like you have it together. And. And I think now, you know, especially.

When you said, like, once you walk into the office, leave Everything outside. Outside, right.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, and people don't trust that, Right. I think, I think even, you know, in, in marketing, right. They, they, they've been burned so many times by that perfect sheen that they don't trust it anymore and they don't believe you and it's not authentic. Right. So of course, you know, just from, from an intuitive perspective, you don't, you know, that's not real. Right. And I worked with this, with this executive one time and he was a stoic person, very buttoned up. I mean, like no non verbal communication in his face ever at all. Right.

Great poker.

Yeah. Right. Except that when he got upset, he really got upset. But because he still made the, the non verbal was still tamped down, people believed that what he was saying when he was being emotional was fact. And they act, they took it to heart and it, you know, it hurt people's self confidence and, and really hurt his team. And I, and I remember sitting in a meeting with him one time and he said, you know, people were just chatting, waiting for the meeting to start and somebody asked the question, if you weren't doing this job, what would you do? And he said, I would be a kindergarten teacher. And I was like, what? Wow, okay, that's a twist. This is before I, yeah, this was before I started working with him. It really made me want to work with him because I was like, where did that come from? Right. And, and then started digging into like, who was he really? And it wasn't at all how he was showing up at work. And once we started working together to really surface who he was and make that more congruent, then he had a much better connection with his team so that they understood where he was coming from, they trusted him more, their confidence was building up and he was able to let some of that guard down. But I do think that especially new leaders, when they step into that position, they think they have to be a certain way and people see through it. They know that that's not you.

A couple things that you highlighted there is this, this image of, you know, almost it's too good to be real. It's fake. Having kids that are teenagers and so understanding the next workers into our workplace, they can see through fake so easily. You just do around them, you talk to them and like that younger Gen Z almost Gen Alpha, they're like, dude, fake from a mile away. And I distrust it greatly. I'd rather you be vulnerable and real because I could trust that. It's kind of like, you know, without the Filters on the social media, I can really understand. And so I want to take this. This segue kind of move from that and. And really understand the process that you worked with this executive to take him from that stoic, almost hard, cold, emotional to the kindergarten teacher. Like, what was that, that process? And. And how did that show up in his leadership?

Yeah, one of the things that I did in observing him, when he would have, you know, town hall meetings with. With his. With all the people in his division, I noticed that he really loved to tell these inspirational stories. Right. He loved history. He loved reading about history, and he would tell these inspirational stories. And I would ask the people that worked for him, you know, so what do you think of, you know, that particular story that he told or, you know, how did that resonate with you? They're like, it doesn't make sense. Like, I feel like he's. Like he's reading from a book or like, I don't. It doesn't click with me. And it was because it was. That was really who he was and he was showing himself, but it was so polar opposite from how they knew him. And so I use that key, right, to say, look, you're trying to be inspirational. This is who you are. I feel it when I listen to it, because I know you. I know who you really are. Right. But when they hear it, they don't understand because it's not how you're showing up the rest of the time. And they think that you're just trying to pretend to be inspirational. So it's actually having the opposite effect. Right. Who he really was was what they thought was fake, right?

Yeah. Right. Well, because he'd never shown any different.

Right? Right. And I think it's, you know, also making sure that people think that, realize that they're safe to be who they are. Right. I think that's part of the. It's kind of. It's scary to be vulnerable and to let people see you because, you know, what if you're judged and will that question your professionalism, especially in an executive position? Right. And I think it's gotten better over the past few years, and we have a lot of great examples that are showing themselves leaders who are showing themselves publicly and showing that authentic side. But it really comes down to, I think what we keep saying, but I just want to. Want to put a fine point on it, is it's about trust, that trust is the foundation of all relationships. Right. Without trust, nothing works. Right. And so as a leader, if you don't have that trust People are going to be second guessing you. People may or may not do what you say. They may or might not believe that you know where you're going or, you know, they're always going to be questioning if they don't trust you or flat out going against you, which I've also seen in organizations, right. They're, they're trying to sabotage. So it's really having that foundation of trust. And it starts with being vulnerable and being willing to be yourself and allow people to see who you really are.

Do you think that, you know, through the work you've done or in kind of focusing on that is like, do you, do you think the struggle people have, you know, if listeners are listening, it's like, all right, I need to be the leader that, you know, you're kind of, you're saying here, Sonia, you're like, I need to be that leader. But it's like, I don't know if I can be. And what that begs of me is, is what trust issues do we have with ourselves? Do I trust I can be that person? Or is it the imposter syndrome? And so is there part of your process that you, you help guide people through that journey to where they can really lead themselves, they can trust themselves. They say, hey, even though I don't have all this, you know, accolades, experience, whatever else, I still have it within me to be me. And that's good enough.

Yes, absolutely. The first thing we do, so we, we work at three levels. When we're working with companies, we work sometimes with an individual leader. We work at the team level, and then we work at the company or organization level. And whenever, it doesn't matter what level, we start with, we always start with why. So if the, if we agree with Simon Sinek.

Thank you, Simon.

Start with why. Yes. We call it the why connection. And it's really the very first step that we do anytime we work with an organization or a leader is helping them understand their why. And sometimes they think they do, right? They might say, oh, my, why is my family or my faith or I want to have a big impact to change the world, right? Like they have. And we call those your who's and your what's not necessarily your why. Your why is what you. What drove you before you had a family. It's what drove you before you were in this job. It's what really motivates you and drives you in the work that you do. And then we take it from there. We say, okay, so if we know your why, then how do you Deliver on that why, what's your how? And then what can other people expect from you? What's your what? And so that's the why connection, the why, the how, and the what. And we do that at the individual level, we do it at the team level, and then we do it at the company level. And it really starts to connect with who you are authentically. Right? Like, it's like your superpower, Right? When you understand, this is what drives me, this is how I process information and this is what other people can expect from me, then I can lean into that and I can say, okay, this is what I'm really good at. This is what can be challenging about that for other people sometimes. Right? Everyone has its own challenges that come along with it, and being able to share that with people, like, this is what you can expect, and this is what might bother you about it, depending on what your why is. Right? And how can we learn that about each other and turn conflict into collaboration and really leverage each other's best? Right? And that's how what we create, we call passionate organizations. How do you recreate a passionate culture is really connected to that why and that purpose, and then using the best of what everybody brings that they can be fulfilled and passionate to make that happen.

So I'm going to guess this process was born out of a transformation in yourself. I already know the answer to this question because I read your book, and this was actually something that was pivotal in myself. But how does a leader find those responses from either the team executive level that maybe they're blind to.

Yeah, it's being open. You know, part of building trust is being open to feedback, Right. And asking for feedback, receiving that feedback and what you. The story that I told in the book was, you know, when I actually went through something at Disney, which I didn't talk about in the book, that I was in a position of the head of internal communications for a company that's really known for having a great culture, the best of the best. But I was there when it was really the worst of the worst. And that I. Head of internal communications, a member of the Disney family, Roy Disney, leading a shareholder revolt against our CEO at the time, Michael Eisner. So it was like a company going through a divorce, Right? And my job was remind people why it's great to work here and help keep them focused on what we're doing, don't pay attention to the media and all the things that are going on, all the internal fighting and all the things that are happening. Right? And so it was very political and it was a really hard time for me. And what I did was I gave what was happening to me right to my team. Right. And I pushed them hard and they gave me feedback to say, you know, they're very high performers. It was an amazing team. And they said, you know, you're, you're going so fast and you're pushing us so hard that we don't even want to try anymore. I, it was a big wake up call for me. And literally I, you know, I did a 360, which I do with, with our clients as well, right? Like we, we get the feedback. I got it. I cried, right. Like I literally did when I told my team I had my little Kleenex box next to me in the, in the conference room ready and, and I shared with them, I gave them my results and I said, this is what you said and this is what I'm going to do about it, right. I realized that I know better and I was letting what was happening to me get transferred to you. And together we said, we're going to build a bubble around us that's our own micro culture around what's happening, because the culture that's supposed to be supporting us isn't right now. So we're going to just support each other. And it was a big aha for me on many levels in I think, number one, having empathy for leaders that when they're under pressure and the amount of pressure that every leader is under, no matter what level they are in the organization, having a lot of empathy for that and then also recognizing that sometimes even when you know better, the environment can get you right. And so how do you then deal with that? And doesn't mean that you have to take that out on your team. And that environment could be the culture of the organization like it was for me at Disney. It can also be the economy, it can also be the speed of change, right. If you're in a smaller business, you might be a business owner and your environment is what is around you and the things that you're having to deal with, right? And so we can sometimes lose sight of that and how you're responding to that environment. So going back to leading yourself, how are you responding to the things that are happening to you so that you're, you're not just transferring that to your team, but you're using your team to support you in that. Right? So it was really me just being completely honest with what I was facing in the organization and, and saying, you know, we're going to band together and do this differently. And I didn't hide from them the political struggles that I was having. Right. I just, I told them, this is what we're. This is what, this is the gun that we're under right now. This is what's happening at the company. This is what's happening to our team as a result. And just being honest about that now, how can we show up in the way that the company needs us to right now to be able to get through all of this?

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Sweet. Ray Ban Meta glasses available at Ray Ban stores and other authorized retailers. As you did that yourself and maybe as you help other leaders, were you willing and said, yeah, let's do a 360 for me when I did a 360 review, and it did exactly what you just shared. And I think it's imperative that for. If you want to grow and become better as a, you know, as a leader, to understand where you're falling short, because oftentimes we can't see that in ourselves. But what pushback do you have from leaders? Or what pushback did you have? You're like, ah, do I really need to do this?

Yeah, I didn't have pushback in doing it, but totally transparently, I had a terrible coach. I had a terrible coach in the way that she delivered that feedback was actually pretty damaging to me.

I see now why you're doing what you're doing.

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think, and I meet a lot of people who have been through the same thing. Like they receive the feedback in a way that was weaponized and they're afraid of it and they should be. Right. That's not the way to do it. Yeah. And I think that's what a lot of people hesitate in giving feedback because they, they maybe have experienced that themselves and they don't want to hurt somebody. Right. Or they don't want to ask for the feedback because they, they've been hurt before and they don't want to be hurt again. Right. I think it's, it's really helping to understand how to receive it, how to deliver it, that it isn't something, it isn't something to be used as a weapon. Right. It's something to be used as a gift to help that person grow. And I absolutely grew out of it anyway. Right. Because it's just the nature of who I am. Right, right. But. Yeah, but it was, but I think it is important to acknowledge that it's not always delivered in the best way and to really have somebody that if you're going to get, you know, do a 360 process and you're going to do that, have somebody that you know is on your side that wants the best for you, that, that is going to look at this to grow. And even if the feedback, even if the people who are giving the feedback are trying to use it that way can give you that perspective. Right. Just because, you know, perception isn't always reality in the. But, but it gives you an indication of what, what you're dealing with. Right. Doesn't necessarily mean that feedback is who you are or how you're actually showing up. But to understand that those are the perceptions that are out there now, what do we do about that? Right. And to really have somebody who's going to work with you to make sure that you can do that together and partner with you in a way. And I always, when I do a 360 with a client, I start the process saying, I'm in this with you. Right. We're doing this together. I have your back. I know it's hard to receive feedback. It's not always, you know, don't take it as the truth. It might be, but it, but don't take it as the truth. Let's really dig into what feels right for you, what doesn't. But recognize that's perception. And we're going to have to deal with perceptions no matter what and, and really sort of set the groundwork with, with what is this really about. And it's not something that defines who you are.

You know, it. You bring up feedback there. And I want to just highlight that you describe that having a coach that maybe wasn't the best. I, I had a great coach that helped guide me through it and. But that's why I want to help people do the same. Rick Vandermyden was the coach from Maxwell Co. That helped guide me through that process. And it was life changing, transformational. That's why I'm here. Right. And at the same point, what I gathered from you is that experience was transformational. Maybe not with the coach, but that's why you're doing it. Part of what I recognize and before we get dig deeper here is that feedback is imperative and I think to Me, that is what a leader does really well, is they make the feedback about helping a person become who they can become, rather than as a critique, as a criticism as I'm going to beat you down. And it's almost this, this change between I'm going to give you so much feedback that you think you're horrible, that you're going to get better, as opposed to give you feedback. So that way you can become that real person that we talked about earlier and that self leadership, that self development, you can start to grow into that, that executive that became that kindergarten teacher because, like, that's what they don't need you to be harder and hold them more accountable with an iron fist. People don't need that. They need someone to encourage them and lead them, not beat them. And I think that is, that that's such a dynamic situation in our world today that we find leaders that struggle between those two points. And a lot of it is almost written up in what an executive is. They're so focused on the financials and the results that they think that's leading. And it's like, if you lead well, that'll happen, right?

Yeah, absolutely. And I would add to your words on the feedback process as empowering. Right. That's a word that I prefer. Right. So. And even how I give feedback to my team, right. Is I tell them what happened. Right. So as soon as I see something went wrong or something went well, right. This is what happened. If it's something that went wrong. Very factual. This is what happened. This went wrong. And then I asked them, so what happened? Right? So what happened to create this error or to have this, this thing happen? Like, let's hear from them what's going on with them. Because sometimes you might not know what they're going through. It might be something personal. It might, you know, something, something might have gotten triggered. You never know. So it's like giving them the opportunity to say what happened. And it also helps them reflect on what was my process. Like, how did I let that happen? Where, like where, where did that go? I've actually had a couple years ago, had somebody fire themselves out of this process. Right, right. You know, I just said it was, it was a mistake that mistakes that kept being repeated. I was like, okay, what's going on? How is this happening? And then my next question is, what, what do you want to do differently? Right? Or what do you want to do about it? And, and, and he had. And he knew that he was making a lot of mistakes and I left him with the you know, he said, what do you want to do about it? I said, there's a pattern here. Now, what do you want to do about it? And he said, I want to think about it. Can I get back to you later today? And he came back to me and he said, I don't think that this job is a fit for me. And he gave his resignation. I was like, great, let's. Let's talk about, you know, how can I help you find something else? Right. It was such a friendly conversation, and. And it was his idea and his recognition. He was empowered to make that decision for himself. Right. I didn't have to do it. I knew. I had a feeling that's where it was going to go, but I didn't have to do it. He did it for himself because I empowered him to figure out and to have the solutions for himself, and he wasn't a great fit. And that's okay. Right. So the process of giving feedback in an empowering way takes the burden off of you as the leader. Right. To say, really just giving the observation of what happened and letting them say, so how do we get here and what do you want to do about it? And the same thing on the other side, when feedback's good to say, oh, here's my observation. How did you get there? What do you want to share with the rest of the team? What ideas you have? How other people can be better based on your performance? So it can go both ways. Where then they start showing up as a leader by sharing what they've done. Well, they're helping other people too.

You probably have so many different stories, so many executives that you've helped. I'd love to hear, like, another story about just a massive transformation or any type of transformation where somebody went from being so, like, numbers, like you said, we just have to deliver results. Focused into realizing now that's being an executive, I need to be a true leader. As you describe it.

Yeah. I think that the. One of my absolute favorite clients, he didn't even want coaching. Oh, so classic.

I don't need that. Come on.

Yeah, exactly. So he's part of a larger organization, an executive in a company. It was one of the first clients I had with this company. And literally our first session, he was interviewing me, and he started out with, you need to explain to me why this is a good use of my time. He started asking me questions. Oh, boy. He said, I'm not going. Yeah. I said, I'm not going to charm school. And so I was literally had this like, okay, Raise up my own sleeves. Let's go. Right. And, and really, you know, he's an engineer.

I was guessing it was somewhere along that, like, you have to be so, like, you know, so dialed into the specifics. Like, what does it matter? Yeah. Okay, so go on. Engineer.

Yes. Super visionary. Creating an amazing, an amazing product and groundbreaking in his industry and all these things. Right. But not the best with his people and not the best with the people outside of his division. Right. So working with the rest of the people in the company and the other executives and things like that is not good. And it was really about using, like, coming back to his vision. Right. So, so, you know, even thinking about developing yourself as a leader, right? Keep coming back to your vision. Is this going to get me. Is this adversarial relationship here going to get me towards the vision or how can I change this relationship to really get me towards the vision? And, and we just kept coming back to that. Right. And, and, and, and showing him that if you want to be able to achieve what you want to achieve, you need people and you need these people on your side and you can't do it without them. So you can fight them all you want, but that's not going to make it. That's going to get, maybe get you there, but you're going to get compliance. You're definitely. And you're not going to get engagement, and you're definitely not going to get passion. Right. So how can we transfer this into really focusing on your vision and what you're trying to achieve? Because that's something he's really gifted at and moving in that direction and showing him that these changes that he needed to make were in service to what he was already trying to do and is already good at and using his superpower to get there. Right.

So how did that change his business? I mean, you talk about him finally grasping that, oh, I need to be this visionary, so everyone buys in and like, you know, actually helps us work towards that. So how did that change his organization?

Yeah, so it took a lot of things off of him. That was a big thing, right. So because he was pushing people so hard, they were just doing compliance, so he had to tell them every little thing to do. But once he started engaging them and partnering with them, right. And getting them enrolled in the vision, that he could let go of things and be the visionary that he is and they could take care of the execution and the implementation. He didn't have to. He was really burdened by all the things that were, you know, that he was responsible for and realizing that, oh, I can give this up to my team and really focus on moving the vision forward and letting them bring their ideas on how to, how to move things forward. Building those, you know, stakeholder relationships in other parts of the company started getting them to move things along faster. Right. So getting more efficient, starting to win more contracts and things like that in being able to get the other people in the company enrolled in the vision, too, whereas before, it was more of an adversarial and they kind of wanted to see him fake. So then they started realizing, oh, this is what you're trying to create. This is actually exciting. We want to help. Right. And just opening up that communication, not at all changing who he was. Right. He's pretty gruff personality. Right. But not at all changing who he was, but really dialing in on his passion for what he was doing and sharing that. Hey, welcome into Walgreens. Hi there.

Hey.

All right, hon. I'll grab the gift wrap cards and, oh, those stuffed animals the girls want. Great.

And I'll grab the string lights and some. How about I grab some cough drops? This is not just a quick trip to Walgreens.

I'm fine, honey.

I'll just, just in case. You know what they say, Tis the season. This is help staying healthy through the holidays. Walgreens. Well, people appreciate it when they understand. I, I, I think back about a conversation I had during the holidays, and, you know, we're first the year. And there was from an older gentleman in our family, and he was talking about, it's like, well, I can't give the secrets. I got to keep that secret. And I just like, one of the great lessons I've learned is, is ideas are for three uses. It's one for you to share, it's one for you to give away, or it's one for you to do yourself. But there's only two options in there that are, you know, the two options are for other people. So you can't do it just yourself. And I think that's what I, that's what I gather from what you share here is that when he started to give the ideas what he cared about, what he wanted to accomplish, what he wanted to do, people are like, oh, I want to be a part of that, as opposed to there's always behind the veil. It's almost like wizard of Oz, where it's like, well, I can't really. You got to keep it secret. And, and I believe that when you make that transformation as you described, not only do you See this? People bill in, buy in, but they start to gather in the purpose, and they engage more. Is that what you saw? And tell me more about that.

Yeah, absolutely. And I, and I think he had shared the vision, but it was, you know, and I see this with leaders all the time. I saw it when I was in communications as well. Right. That, that. Well, we told them how many times. Right, right. I do this exercise when I do workshops on communications where I have. I ask people, like, how many times have you seen a penny? So, Tyler, how many times have you seen a penny?

Oh, I mean, thousands.

Yeah. Right. Maybe millions. Right? Yeah. And then I say, okay, without pulling out, reaching into your pocket or your wallet, draw one. And nobody can ever do it. Right. Like, they might get some details. Right. They don't do it. Right, Right. And it's like, okay, you've seen this penny how many times and you can't tell me the details of it. So if you told somebody something once, especially today, when we have more messages coming at us than ever before in the history of humanity. Right. Then how do you expect them to remember? Right. I love that.

That's a great. I mean, I made note of that because that's such a amazing story to remind you that you can't just do it once. You can't tell people, this is what I'm here for. You can't tell people, this is what I'm about once. You have to do it continually. And I think the fear that people have is if I do it too much, they're going to get annoyed with me.

Me. And they will. So it's not about being repetitive and rote. Right. So, so here's, here's my speech I'm going to say, or here's my, my message. I'm going to say it the same way every single time. Going to tell you 30 times. And people will say, yeah, you said that already. Right. It is. It's more about bringing in different ways of saying it. So, so for, for. With this client and his vision, saying the vision, when you're giving recognition for somebody doing a good job, connect it back to the vision. This is how what this person did is contributing to where we're trying to go. We're making a change in process. Here's how this change is contributing to where we want to go. Right. So you're, you're repeating it, but you're repeating it in different ways to show this is how everything connects and you're helping people connect the dots rather than just saying the same thing. Over and over and over. Yeah, that's how people get excited. They're like, oh, okay, I see. Now this piece is connecting to that, and this is how my role connects to that. And the projects that I'm working on are connecting to that. And they start to come up with ideas. Once they get it, they're like, oh, here's some of the. Have you thought about X, Y, Z, maybe we could do it this way? And they're actually starting to bring ideas. And what I've seen with clients is that things start to grow exponentially because people are contributing their ideas and they. Their passion on wanting to make it happen and come up with things you never would have thought of on your own.

You know, it's been said, and I take from what you just shared there, and you described the kindergarten teacher executive, that one of the greatest skills a leader can master is the skill of storytelling. Because it. It does what you just shared there, where it tells all those pieces and parts in different ways, but then gets people to buy in. Right. We're a cult culture that for millennia has been about storytelling. So I want to jump from that. And before we get to our last question, before we wrap up, I want to go through just each element of your process, because I know that storytelling is a piece of that. Right. As you bring out those elements. So if you could recap just the. The five Ps, the. The process that you have of becoming a true leader in how we define that.

Yes, absolutely. So we call our model Red Thread Leadership. And it's really about first starting with purpose. That's the first P. And connecting that purpose, like a red thread, through everything that you do as a company, every.

Storytelling that you do.

Right. Yeah. Right. So it's storytelling, but it's also what you do. Some people think of culture as, you know, the parties and the way we get together socially. And maybe we have perks. And yes, those are part of culture, but culture is really everything that you do. And so what we do with Red Thread is we say, okay, let's look at your purpose then. Do you have a plan? What's your strategy? What's your vision? What are your goals? And then how do we connect that plan to your processes? So are your processes moving your purpose and plan forward, or are your processes are just things you've always done? Yeah. And we empower the team to question it. Right. To be able to say for your individual role, do these processes make sense based on our purpose and plan anymore? And I've seen where companies will Say, oh, yeah, we do this this way because Maria liked to see it this way. And Maria's been gone for five years, but we still do it this way. And it's like, does anybody look at that? No. Okay, why are we doing that? Right? And we start to really get efficiency and say, okay. And this starts to. Also starts to generate passion because we were like, oh, I get a say in the processes and I can come up with ideas. And I can also say what we don't need to do anymore. That I think is a totally waste of time. And I've always known is a waste of time, but I do it right. So the third P is process. Then the fourth is positions. So these are how you're structured. Who reports to who? Who do you hire? How do you decide who to promote people? And are those positions in the right place? And are they connected back to your purpose and your plan? Do you. Are you structured in a way that's going to facilitate decision making, speed up the process so that you can get to where you are going faster? Do you have the right people in the right roles? Are you. How do you. How do you make sure that you're hiring the right people connected to your purpose and your plan? And then the fifth P is passion. That's what we call culture. And we actually measure it in. Is every person in the company passionate about the company's purpose? Are they passionate about their role in the company's purpose? And do they trust each other? And so Those are the five Ps that we look at when we're looking at an organization to say, how do you really create a purpose and passionate culture that's going to help you get to where you're going much faster?

Great. And so you take all that. The, the purpose, the plan, the process, positions and passion. And so that's the process of getting to the very last question. And it's this idea of, all right, how do we define that true leader? And I'm going to guess, but I want you to say it is a true leader puts those in place and lives by those. But I want to hear it from you and I want to hear it from your words, how that really happens within an organization, but more importantly for a leader.

Yeah, absolutely. So you can take those same P's and apply it to yourself. Right? What's your purpose? What's your plan for how you want to show up as a leader? What you want your career to look like? Do you have the right processes in place to make that happen? Who else do you have around you. Do you have the right coaches, the right mentors? Are you the books, the podcasts? Like, what. What do you have around you to support what you want to achieve? Those positions, other people that are supporting you in your network. And then how do you develop more trust for yourself and passion for what you're doing and passionate for what you're building as a leader?

Now, right at the end here, I want to take that and I want to hear it from your words. How do you encourage someone who's listening in that is part of this audience that's like, I want to be that leader. How do they start that journey? How do you get started? What advice, what strategies do you have for them to say, this is how you can start showing up and being that leader?

Yeah, I think the first part is presence. So being present with people, being present with what you're doing, being present in the moment goes a long way to connecting with people. Just listening to them and being there with them and not trying to multitask while they're talking to you goes a long way. And then it's self awareness. Right? It's what is your why? Why do you do what you do? How do you connect that to how you show up as a leader? Every single leader has their own individual why and their own way that they deliver, and that's their superpower. Right? So knowing how, what that is for you makes a difference in how you can show up. So, yes, we can say we have these frameworks and models for leadership, but who you are as a leader is authentically you. But you have to know what that is to be able to really leverage it.

Sonia, I thank you so much for this time. I appreciate the conversation. Again, if you're listening in, check out Sonya on social media, on Instagram, YouTube. I'll let you go through where can people find you the best.

Yeah, best way is to come to our. Our website at Executive Leadership consulting, which is executiveleader.com and it's the hub. So you. So that's where you find information about how to get your. Why all of our social links are on there. You can reach me directly on the contact page. So executiveleader.com, we have lots of free resources and webinars on there and things that you can continue to grow as a leader.

All right, and one last thing, and I'll share this about the book. I enjoyed reading your book. You're an executive, but are you a leader? And here's something that I would encourage you as listening in as we're wrapping up. Take the book. It's in 50 chapters, but there's 50 thought questions, I would say it. And you could sit down with your team at work, you could sit down by yourself, make notes and do that for this year. Make that as a process where you just take one a week and I can guarantee you're going to get tremendous value out of it. Sonia, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for being a guest. Thank you for being here and sharing so much wisdom. I'm excited to get to know you. And again, thank you for imparting so much wisdom to the impact driven leader community. Until next time, have a good one. And thanks for being here.