How to Connect Strategy and Culture - with Sonya Shelton

Thanks for tuning in to the HR Uprising podcast. I'm your host, Lucinda Carney. The HR Uprising is focused on helping forward thinking people professionals deliver real lasting value in their organizations. I'm a chartered psychologist, speaker and trainer and recently authored the best selling business book, how to Be a Change Superhero. My day job is founder and CEO of software and training business Actus. This gives me the opportunity to work with other businesses like yours. We are focused on building a better workplace for people wherever they are located with the help of our performance, learning and talent management software and our training and consultancy services. Every week on the podcast I will be covering different topics and challenges joined by relevant experts and real life people professionals. Thank you so much for tuning in. I really hope you enjoy and get value from this week's episode.

Hello and welcome to this week's HR Uprising podcast. And this week we're going to talk all about strategy and culture and what we can do about it. And I'm delighted that Sonia Shelton is joining me to talk about this topic. So Sonia is author of a best selling book. You're an executive, but are you a leader? Which I think we'll touch on some of those aspects there. And you're the CEO of the Executive Leadership Consulting. So this is, this is your bread and butter, Sonia, literally, isn't it?

Yes.

That's what you're doing on day in, day out. So welcome. Would you like to introduce yourself and fill in any gaps?

Yes, thank you. I'm so happy to be here. I love your podcast. I've been listening to it and love the episodes I've heard. Yeah. So my company is Executive Leadership Consulting. We work with companies from startups all the way to Fortune 100 companies on helping them connect their strategy and culture together.

So I was really intrigued by this topic. There were so many topics we could talk about, Sonia, weren't there? But I was intrigued by your angle on this because I know it's a, it's an area that is quite mystifying, I think for some people. It's an area people find quite difficult and I often get asked about and you have a quote here that I'm going to ask you to explain because I love it, but I don't know what it means. So your quote was culture doesn't eat strategy for breakfast, which is that kind of classic quote, isn't it? They have breakfast together. So could you explain what you mean by this?

Yeah, I think a lot of companies, you know, we have that famous quote that culture doesn't eat strategy for breakfast. And I think that there are companies who look at, maybe overuse one side or the other. Right. So maybe they focus so much on the business strategy that they lose sight of the culture and their employees and things like that. And then on the flip side, there's companies that focus so heavily on the culture that they lose sight of their business strategy. There was, I think it was last year, maybe the year before, there were these television shows that came out around Uber and we work right in the US and, and they, and it was, I thought it was a perfect extreme example of, you know, Uber being so focused on the business strategy and creating a, creating almost untenable culture. Right. And then you had WeWork, which was so focused on the employee experience that they almost lost the company. Right. So, so, so it's really about looking how do, how do you as HR professionals connect with your business strategy to help bring the people along with that? Right. So how can you create a culture that's going to be in support of your business growth, which requires HR to be really connected with the business leadership to first understand what that is and what kind of culture needs to be created around that to be able to help grow the company and make that strategy happen.

So, so we're very much the glue, aren't we, I guess is what we're saying and to, to try and create that balance between the two.

Absolutely.

If I'm an HR professional listening to this, and I would say, oh, I'm not actually sure whether we are overly strategy oriented or overly culturally oriented, you've got any tips on how we might recognize that we're perhaps doing a bit too much of one or the other?

Yeah, I think. Well, first it's, it's the definition of culture. Right. So I think that culture sometimes gets misrepresented as all the fun things you do for employees. Right. Maybe it's, you know, do you give them lunch or do you have happy hours or do you know those things to bring them together? And those are important. Absolutely. But there's so many other things that connect to the culture. Right. So the, the vision of the company is part of the culture. The goals that everyone has part of the culture. The processes that people use to do their job is part of the culture. The, the origin, the org design. Right. The, the who reports to who and how decisions are made and who gets hired and who gets promoted. That's all part of the culture too. Right. So it's. So HR really does have a big part of being integrated into all of those things within the Culture. I think it's an opportunity for HR to, to, to fit more into saying, okay, how can we work with business leadership to design these things so that they are moving the business forward in the way that leaders want them to and then also help employees see that there's meaning and purpose behind what they're doing. So I would say that, you know, falling on, on one side over overstepping on the culture side is probably looking too much on what's employee, what's, what's good for the employees, maybe at the detriment of the business. And the flip side, really focusing on nothing but profits on the strategy side and not really seeing what's the impact to people as a result of business decisions that are being made.

So, yeah, I can definitely see that in terms of the links and I suppose HR might end up being sort of locked into the processes. That's probably one that you get and maybe the org structure, but we're saying it's about linking it up in terms of the overall strategy and the vision there. And I guess that's one of the things we were talking about previously off the audio was about understanding what good looks like or what success looks like as an HR person, but also maybe making sure the people who are forming the strategy looks like. Have you got guidance on that? Would that fit into what we're talking about here?

Yeah, absolutely. So we believe we're completely aligned with Simon Sinek, who wrote the book Start with why. Right. And so it's looking at, do you have a strong why at your company? And I think that HR has the opportunity to lead that process in creating helping people understand, helping each leader understand their why, helping the leadership team understand their team why, which would be like values. And then looking at the company purpose, which is the company why, you know, why do you do what you do? How do you deliver that? What can people expect from you as a company? And hr, I think, has an integral role in being able to lead those conversations. Maybe they're not the ones who decide it, of course, but that, but they can be the ones to ask the questions to help leaders get to that place. And then ultimately, you know, once you have that purpose, then you can start to say, okay, are we fulfilling our purpose through our vision? Right, so do. So do we have, do we even have a vision? And one of the things I love to do with clients is, you know, just walking around or talking to different employees online. I'll say, I'll just ask people, so what's the vision for the company? I'M curious. And then I find out if they say about the same thing, maybe in their own words, like it doesn't have to be parroted, but just to say, yeah, you know, are they basically saying the same thing? That sort of gives some indication of the alignment in the company. So even hr, just talking to people. So what do you think the vision of the company is? And, and seeing what people say and, and that helps. Then go back to leadership and say they're getting it or they're not getting it.

Yeah. One of the things there, I remember doing a podcast on this topic. I was thinking, you are the person who can probably. I'm putting you on the spot here, but differentiate. So you go in and do this with companies and you help them work out what their strategy and the vision is and those sort of things. Would you, for the benefit of listeners, maybe define the differences? Because I think people get mission, vision, values, purpose. They all get a bit murky and maybe define it and perhaps with a question that you could ask if someone out there is listening, saying, actually, I want to go and get us thinking about what our vision or mission is. A question that they might ask their leaders.

Yeah, absolutely. So, so I think starting with purpose. So we always start with, with purpose, which is connect, connected to the why, why do you do what you do? What, what, what is. What is the motivating factor behind what you do as a company? Why, what do you. What is, why do you exist? And then for a mission is more like the how. So how do you deliver on that purpose? What are the things that you do more? The tangible things that you do? And also within the how is the values. Right. So how do we. So the, the mission being how we do things externally and then the values being how we do things internally. Right. So how do, how do we treat each other? How do we. What do we stand for? And then ultimately the what is your vision? Right. So what do you want to create? What does the future look like? And I say, you know, it's called vision for a reason. We really need to see it. It needs to be clear. And one of my favorite vision statements, it's from a long time ago, but it was Microsoft's original vision statement, which was to have a computer on every desk running Microsoft software. And this was at a time when they didn't. There wasn't even a computer on desk. Right. That they made this vision. And then, I don't know about you, but my computer runs Microsoft software.

Came pretty close.

Yeah. So they, so they actually, at the time that they created that vision, it seemed impossible, but they actually made it come to life because it was such a core part of their everyday conversation and what they were trying to achieve. And you, you really can see it like, you know what that looks like. So creating a really strong, compelling vision statement that is clear. You can see it, you know what it looks like. And to be. For HR to be able to ask the question, you know, do employees really, if you have a vision statement, do employees really understand what this means? Do they understand what it looks like? How will we know when we get there what is, what's like the tangible thing that will say, yeah, we're here now, it's time to create a new one.

Absolutely, yeah. So I'm going to try repeat this back to you to see if I've got it because I still think the mission and vision still feel a little bit interchangeable and I just want to differentiate it so I get the purpose. So what are we here to achieve? And that's quite important for motivation, isn't it? I always think when I talk about people having objectives, knowing why they're here to do it, and ideally being inspired by it is really, really key. So I get that one. And I think some organizations, it's easier to have a purpose than others, isn't it? In terms of depending on great meaning. So then the mission is. Mission is what you're there to, to do or what's, what's the, you know, what you're there to deliver the purpose or how you're going to deliver the purpose. Is that it?

Exactly how you do what you do, Right? So it might be, so it might be, you know, your, your company's specific way of doing things, whether it's a product or a service, how you deliver that, right?

And that's where you might differentiate if you're trying to, if you're a small business trying to make you differentiate. And then the values is how you do what you do in the interpersonal way, in terms of the, the way and the ethos that you've got. And then the vision is kind of specifically knowing, having that specific visual or clarity of, of an outcome.

Right? Where are we going? Right. So, so if you, if you imagine, you know, if, if we're, if we're taking a trip to London, right? What the, the. Why are we going? Right? So if we're gonna go, we're gonna, these are the things we want to see, right? And, and, and I've always wanted to go, right? So, so then maybe there's people that we're connect. Gonna connect there and then how we're gonna get there, Are we gonna take, are we gonna take a train? Are we gonna take a plane? Are we gonna take a, are we gonna drive? Right, so. And then finally your vision would be what are we going to do? What's it going to be like while we're there? And, and what are we going to experience?

What's the schedule? And yeah, yes. How pitch. Getting yourself pictured, you know, what we're going to visit and which.

Right, yeah, yeah, exactly. Great.

Okay. So, so those sort of questions, you could work. If I was in my organization, I could take those questions and work with the leaders and get to that point where we've got those, those there. And that's going to help us strategically. If we went then to. In terms of strategy, I guess it's pretty much strategy, isn't it? If we then go to culture, I suppose values would fit into culture. Would we have slightly different questions if we were trying to challenge our organization to think about balancing culture alongside the sort of the strategy?

Yeah. So I would say it's, it's less of a balance and more of an integration. Right. So once you understand your purpose, your values and, and your strategy, then you can start to. And your vision. Right. You can start to say, okay, we, what are. So what we call the five P's in our red thread leadership model. Right. So we start with purpose and then we look at what's the plan. So once we know what the purpose is, what's the plan? And then within plan is your strategy, your vision and your goals. And then once you know where. So that's like where you're going.

Yeah.

And then from there looking at your processes. Right. So, so do we have the right processes in place to get us where we're going? And part of this is it's more tangible processes, but it's also creating a culture, empowering employees to say, I'm not sure this process is actually necessary anymore. Based on what, where we're trying to go, or maybe we can make it more efficient. I always, I always find companies have processes in place that were around someone's personality that used to work there 10 years ago. Right, right, right. So empowering employees to say, to question those processes and say, is this going to get us to our purpose? And then the next P is position. So looking at the organizational structure, who reports to who, how do we make decisions, how do, who are we going to hire? What's. How are we going to decide who Gets promoted. Right. Like all of those things that are connected to the culture. Right. So, so all of those aspects are connected to how the culture and how we do things around here. And then the last P is passion, which is how do. How. How do we connect meaning for each employee so that they understand what is their purpose in the organization individually, why is their role important? Are they, are they passionate about that? And if, and if so why, why not? Right. And the same thing. How do they feel about the company now that they understand the purpose? Are they passionate about that purpose? Do they know how they fit in? And then, of course, all of that is based on trust. If you have that foundation of trust, if you don't have trust, you can't have passion for either your role or the company. Right. So, so the five Ps, purpose, plan, process, positions, and passion, we call that the red thread that runs through your organization to create business success and a great place to work.

Similar to golden thread, I think. But say, say similar sort of concept. I like that. I did a webinar last week on change management, and it's got, got. It's like a blend of sort of a culture change, you know, the cultural web. So you've got bits of the cultural web in there, but it's, it's kind of. It's got that. Yeah, exactly. As you said, it's got the link between the strategy and the, the cultural piece. So going into the trust bit. So let's say I'm in an organization that I've identified that trust isn't where we want it to be. What would I do there? Or how could I, as an HR person, you know, try and address that?

Yeah, I think it depends what the root cause is. Right. So I think we have, we have some assessments that look at, you know, how do you measure trust and how do you build trust in the company, what's exactly going wrong? And kind of diagnosing what's exactly going wrong. But I think it's really looking. You know, I always start whenever there is a lack of trust or even misalignment or at the worst conflict. Right. Is going back to the root, which is that purpose and vision. So if we can get to where we agree and how do we each come together to complement and help each other get there. And then, of course, there's communication and consistency that goes along with that to make sure that there's transparency in there, that we're walking the talk as well, to be able to build trust. And I think HR has that, you know, as you were mentioning before, is sort of that. That in between the strategy and culture, and it's the same thing with trust, I think, is. Is to. For the HR person first to really be able to build trust on. In the organization for themselves individually, but then be able to. To build trust with leadership to say, what, what. What does the team need and what do they need from you as the leader to be able to build that trust? So one of the things, I think that HR people can use this, I use it all the time in, you know, it's that like the paparazzi. Right. Are following you around all the time. Right. If you're a celebrity. Right. So every leader sort of has that aspect with their team where their team is sort of their own personal paparazzi. Looking at what are they doing, what are they saying, are they in alignment and with what, you know, is what they're doing in alignment with what they're saying. And I think HR can sort of be that pressure test for leaders to say, because I think leaders, they're just people. Right. So they don't understand that this is happening. Right, right. And so HR can be that pressure test for leaders to say, well, this is how you're coming across. And this is. You didn't intend to come across this way, but this is how it might have been interpreted. And it really is. They're looking at every little thing. Right. And so. So h. Are sort of being that almost advisor. Right, Exactly. To say. To say, here's. Here's what they're saying about, you know, and then even just observing yourself as an HR person to say, oh, I think that might not have come across the way you intended it to.

I mean, so being brave, being prepared to build those personal relationships in order to give that feedback and to support people to recognize where they are congruent with where they should be. Or less so in terms of the values and modeling it. Yes, absolutely. In terms of building trust, if someone wants to build or rebuild trust, what would you recommend there as the key skills?

Yeah, I think it's starting going back to starting with why. What motivates the person that you're trying to build trust with and how can you connect with them on that level? And. And how can you be vulnerable? Right. So. So remembering that you're a person too. They're a person. Right. Like connecting on that person level. I think for. For both hr, I think HR has this has the same kind of barrier that leaders have in a different way. Right. Where. Where people have this idea of what HR represents and what they. I was in a meeting the other day and HR was described as scary. And I was like, oh, my gosh, poor things. Right. So. So the. So the. To be able to say, no, I'm just a person. Here's. I just have this particular role and be able to connect with people on that level and. And just be vulnerable about, you know, who. Who you are and what you stand for and what motivates you. And that opens up the doors for them to be able to do that with you. And. And the trust foundation starts.

Yeah, yeah. That sort of humility, being, being prepared to. To be vulnerable yourself as well. It is funny how often that happens, isn't it? Because they have a. It's a tough. It's a really tough gig because you're having to deal with the nasty stuff. That's why it's scary. Right. And also the emotional stuff. It's a real breadth that people have to do. And ultimately it's got to be the most trustworthy role because we're absorbing an awful lot of information that can't be shared and, you know, and all those sort of things. So it's a very tricky, tricky role. So I really like how that all hangs together. What I also particularly like is this whole way in which you keep going up to y. And I thought that really makes sense in terms of resolving things, of course, because when. When people have the conflict, you know, it's often bear down, like. Like you said at the start earlier on when you were saying about, you know, sometimes the process is in place because 10 years ago someone thought it was an important thing to do, and no one really knows why we're doing it in the first place. Sometimes these silly little conflicts arise when we're down in the weeds. But actually if you chunk it up and go, okay, we're all here to do whatever it is we're here to do. How do we find a way through it? It's a really nice way of just getting every. It's a leveler, isn't it? So in terms of. We've covered quite a lot quite quickly, which is great. In terms of your tying this together further, maybe if we go into your book that you've written, how would that link into it? Is this more about the manager being, you know, skills of a manager? I think some of them, when I went through it earlier, some of the topics we've talked about, like vision and those sort of things fit into it. Are there any key takeaways from your book that you'd add in to tie this together.

Yeah. So the, the book's called you're an executive but are you a leader? And I think it, it really is around first it's, I designed it completely for leaders to take in. So there's 50 chapters. Three chapters each one is a tip, one is a case study and the third, and the third piece is coaching questions that I would ask you. Right. So. And it's all around, isn't it?

Yeah, it's really broken up.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And, and it really is about the difference between having the position and, and then really leading people and engaging them and, and, and a lot of it is around alignment. So, so being able so that having the purpose and the vision and all those things is important, but if you don't have alignment with people moving in that direction, it's really, it's still really hard to make it happen. Right. So. And I think that, that, I think it was McKinsey that came out with a study in the past couple of years that around what employees are looking for and why are they changing jobs and things like that. And the number one thing was they' to that are they're looking for companies that are well led and headed in the right direction. Right. So, so this is really about alignment and, and having that connection to your purpose and your vision. And, and are, do they see their role in it and how they're an important part of it and then constantly asking the question right. Of where are they aligned? Where aren't they aligned? Are, do they understand the vision? Are we speaking with one voice? Are we all moving in the same direction? Is all about leadership.

Yeah, that's an interesting one. I didn't know that that was what the, the alignment is. And I suppose one of the things is you can be aligned as an organization but then let's say the market changes or people change and you can get misaligned, can't you? So part of it may be actually recognizing that that's happening and being prepared to realign and reassess.

Yes, absolutely. So it was funny on LinkedIn. I think it was last week somebody had posted that not to focus. And I use this as an example, not to focus on trust as a skill building. You just have to be trustworthy. And I think that yes, a lot of leaders are trustworthy, but that doesn't mean they have trust. So it's a daily thing that you have to continue to build and maintain and alignment is the same. You can have alignment at the beginning, but if you know so, so you come up with your purpose and vision, for example, and then you hang it on the wall or post it in. In your, in your. In your share drive. Right. And then, and then you think you're done, but it's really a daily conversation and continuing to. Alignment. Question. Alignment. Things are changing every day, right? The, the, the. I don't think I've seen such a fast pace of change in business, in my life. Right. And so things are changing so fast that you have to continually maintain that alignment and make sure, and check for understanding to make sure that people still are aligned and are they in agreement with where we're going?

That's a really valid point, isn't it? Asking for feedback in terms of listening, listening to people as well, rather than just assuming that we are. We're in the same place and we're all on the same page together. So, Sonia, we've covered a lot of content here. You're clearly an expert in many things in terms of this. We've talked about the vision, purpose, values. I Love your, your five Ps and the whole aspect of looking at success, etc. In terms of your accessing, you are. You're Quite active on LinkedIn, aren't you? So people want to reach out to you. Do you want to just share how people get in touch if they wanted to?

Yes, absolutely. I AM active on LinkedIn. You're welcome to connect me with me there. Our website is executiveleader.com if you want to learn more about the company or me. And then also I'd love to offer your listeners just a free gift for, for listening to the podcast today if they, if they like this concept of culture and strategy and red thread leadership. I actually have a free masterclass on the five P's so that you can dive deeper into what they are and how to integrate them in your company, as well as some case studies on different companies and how they've used them. And they can find that@redthreadleadership.com oh, fabulous.

So is it a live masterclass or is it something they download? How does it work? The.

Yeah, it's recorded. They can listen to it whenever they want.

Yeah, fabulous, Fabulous. So it doesn't matter the fact that you're eight hours behind, can watch it in whichever time frame. We have listeners from all over, but on different time frames, they can access it and listen to it. Wonderful. That's great. Thank you so much. Thank you. Sonia, thank you for joining me on the HR Uprising podcast.

Thank you. I loved our conversation. It was great.

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