#113: Why Your Partner Doesn't Want to Work on Your Relationship

The principle that I know that not many people do is that when we understand the emotional driver of the behavior, what's happened always makes sense. It's kind of like, of course you have anger issues, of course you have mental health issues, of course you had an affair. But we never get to the point where we understand the emotional driver. We just talk about what happened.

Hey, thanks for coming. Welcome to the Love Shack.

Hello. Welcome to the Love Shack. It's a little old place where we get to get together, explore fresh perspectives, eavesdrop on juicy conversations to discover the things that really matter while having a little bit of fun along the way. I'm Stacy Bartley and I'm here with my co host and. And lover, Tom. This is episode number 113 and we're going to be talking about what do you do if your partner doesn't want to work on your relationship? This is a question that we get often and it can be a very frustrating place. And unfortunately, it's where couples spend a lot of time in their relationship. When things are not going well, somebody wants to work on the relationship, improve it, get some help, learn some new skills, because they understand that things aren't working the way that they are currently going. And there always seems to be one coming along behind that's just dragging their feet, has lots of excuses, says it's not good timing, we don't need help, we don't have to do that. We fix our own problems. And the litany of excuses goes on and on for not just days, weeks, or months, but literally years.

So we're going to share. We do. We get asked this. I would say it's in our top, you know, two or three questions. And the good news is, is we have some great news for you. Really. We do. And I think it's, it's somewhat atypical, kind of out there in the space. So, you know, buckle up and this is going to be a valuable episode for you if you're stuck in this place thinking that you can't do anything unless both of you, you know, you and your special husband, husband, wife, partner, significant other also raises his or her hand.

Yeah. So, you know, what, what might be going on in the mind of the partner that doesn't want to get help. Like where we tend to go with this question is, well, just think about where you go right now while you're listening to my voice. Like, what have you made up is true about why your partner doesn't want to get help? Is it because they don't care about the relationship, Is it because they don't care about you? That's very, very common. We start taking it very personal because we can see the fighting escalating. If you're by chance the one that's out there on the Internet doing all the, the wonderful little quizzes and surveys and figuring out your love languages, that puts you in a position where to encourage your partner to get help. You're diagnosing them, you're labeling them. Oh, I see. You're codependent. I'm an anxious and you're an avoidant. Oh, I see. The love language is the problem. And yet it doesn't seem to move the needle. In fact, it absolutely oft times breaks your relationship down even faster. So let me ask you this. Let's set all that aside for a moment and let's just going to ask you to take a trip with me because it's going to help you really understand perhaps where your partner is by asking you, have you ever had the experience of breaking a promise or an agreement, let's say with a friend or a coworker, and then feeling kind of embarrassed about that, you know, a little awkward, not quite sure how to clean it up or what to do about it, you just want to avoid it and you just kind of want to forget that it's happened. But then you're in the grocery store and you notice two aisles over is that same friend or co worker.

Oh, shoot.

And then you're going, oh, how do I get out of here? Like, can I just duck and dodge it? You know, so I'm going to avoid the aisle. I'm going to leave the store all together.

That's a horrible feeling.

It is a horrible feeling. And you know what? We've all been there. Like, I really want to universalize this. Like we have all been in a place where we have broken a promise or an agreement to someone and now we feel funny and awkward about it. You know, we, we're not in a place where we really want to take it on and address it. So we do what we try and avoid it. Avoid the person, avoid the conversation, avoid going there, bringing it up, right? And just think about the anxiety that, that spins up in you when it's happening.

Talk about a exit stage left as fast as possible.

This is making me remember I was married once before and now I'm divorced. And when my ex husband said, he said this a lot. Maybe we should get some help. Maybe we should talk to somebody. I was working for you guys, so I was working for Someone that could have helped me in this space. And I was encouraging other people to get help for their relationships every day. That was my job, you know, and it still is my job. So just so you. So people can really understand what the other person sometimes feels like if you are the person begging your partner to work on the relationship. This is what I was feeling as the person being begged. No, I don't want to go have someone tell me that there's something wrong with me. And then I'm going to have to take responsibility for all the wrongness that has occurred because that's kind of what I was being told to believe about myself. And then what if they tell us we have to get a divorce? I don't want to get a divorce from you, even though I should have. And it's my, my life is better now that we are divorced, but created this deep, deep fear inside of me. It had nothing to do with not wanting to save the relationship. I wanted to save the relationship. I wanted with all of my heart at that time to stay married and to make it work. And I thought going to get help would be the thing that caused us to get a divorce.

So let me ask you, Brooke would. And for those of you that may be joining us for the first time, this voice from out of the dark is our daughter, Brooke. So when Stacy introduce everyone inside the love shack, it's yes, Stacy and myself and our daughter Brooke, who many of you have talked to, interacted with. But that's the sometimes. And she's not in the dark, she's with us. And sometimes it's the voice from the dark. But let me ask you, Brooke, would you also say there was added trepidation or outright emotional distraught thinking that you may go to mom too and you're a part of a platform that just because we're part of this platform, we should. None of us should ever have a problem in our relationship.

Yeah, totally. Like, it was embarrassing for me. Felt embarrassed. Like I'm telling everyone how to have these great relationships and I'm failing in my own. Yes. But mostly I want to express that I don't think when we are begging our partners to work on our relationship with us. I don't think we consider that as an option. That they're scared that the working on the relationship will be the cause of the. Will be the demise of it. They just, we just think, oh, they don't want to work on the relationship or, oh, they, they don't want to come to the table because they don't care about me. It could often be the exact opposite.

Oh, very much. And often very much is. And that's why I brought up that scenario. Like we've all broken promises, made mistakes, made messes that we're not quite sure how to clean up and quite honestly feel reluctant to take responsibility for or face off on ourselves. And very often that's absolutely what's at the foot of it. It's much about not wanting to work on your relationship. It's mustering up the courage to confront myself and to look and to do an exploration of what I've done in this co creation or contributed to and, or nervous about where it's going to take me. So I want to, I want to ask you.

Sorry, I want to interrupt you one more time because I feel like this is a really good teaching moment about how you're different than counselors for anyone. Just a very quick caveat because I know you have a, a plan for this episode. I'm not trying to take over, but for people who are having fear that if they come to have a private session with Stacy, who I also call mom too, that she will be the judge and jury of whether or not you get married or, or stay married or get a divorce or break up or stay together. I just want you to know she will never give you that answer. She is not that kind of person who helps you with your relationships. She doesn't make that decision for you. And she will not recommend one way or another. She leads you on the journey for.

You to make that decision. Thank you, Brooke. And that's absolutely the truth. And that's, that's an important caveat because there's only two people that are going to be able to live out once that decision is made. You know, I'm going to go on my life. I'm going to go back to my life. And there's only two other people that are going to be affected by the choices and decisions that are made in our sessions or in our time working together. And those two people are you and your partner. And so what right do I have to tell you what it is you need to do? Those things need to be explored and determined by the two of you. And the two of you only. I can only point you in the places and, and maybe improve your skills. Not maybe, but improve your skills in regards to how to have the conversations and explore the possibilities of where it is we go next. And it's very real that neither one of you know. In fact, you don't know like it's going to be a journey. You can't make that decision before you start and get help. That's a decision. And choices that are made along the way as we improve our understanding of ourselves and each other. What I wanted to say is, so when someone says no, that I don't want to work on this relationship, and we probably take a personal and make up some ridiculous excuses as to why that's not happening, I just want you to remember this, okay? No does not mean no. Instead, no means I'm not ready to talk about it. I'm terrified of being vulnerable. I'm afraid of what's going to be brought up in the sessions because I know I have some things that are awkward. You know, remember that conversation we talked about as we opened the show of being in a. In the grocery store and, you know, you've got some broken agreements and some messes that haven't been cleaned up and you don't really want to go back there. You know, we don't want to talk about the past because that makes me feel uncomfortable. And so there's some things I don't want to have brought up because, well, I'm not ready to face off with that. Or I feel guilty and feel that all of this is going on because it's me and my fault. And again, I'm not ready to confront myself. Or how about I'm not sure if I can handle it emotionally without losing my shit. Like, I'm in a place where I'm hanging on by my fingernails and I'm not quite sure I can go there. Or what about. I'm afraid of saying what really doesn't work for me because I don't want to hurt your feelings. Right. I've got a lot to say and I've got a lot that's built up over the years, and I'm afraid if I let it all out, it's going to hurt your feelings, destroy what we have, and we're going to be done. Which brings me to the next thought that's often shared is I'm worried if what we confront ruins our relationship and creates a divorce. And that's the divorce I've been trying to avoid for years and years and years. How about this one? It will devastate me to hear the truth of you and what's going on for you, because in my mind, believe me, I'm carrying a horror picture that's probably far worse than what's going on with my partner. But I have a horror picture that makes me the bad guy. In the situation or the bad woman. So there's some solutions here. And Tom, I'm going to allow you. I'm going to call on you.

For those of you that are not watching, I'm raising my hand now to add a number eight. Number eight is the person who has not started. So let's say, okay, someone start to work with us. This just came up in a clarity call is a great question. So the. One of the husband, the wife, whatever, start to work with us. And then the. I like to say it's the hesitant partner, the hesitant, you know, one that's not working with us. So I said, okay, heck no, I'm not going to go start working with you and those crazy people from California, because they're invariably. I'm going to be doomed. There's no way that Stacy's not going to, like, point me out to be the one that's a troublemaker.

I mean, think about.

That's a very logical thought process. Yeah, it really is. So I just want to absolutely assure you especially.

And I just want to add the caveat on there.

Oh, who's interrupting who now?

I know, but especially. Especially if I'm. I'm the one that knows I have, like, anxiety issues and I can't keep it together, or I have anger issues and I can't keep it together, or maybe I've had an emotional or physical affair that's been uncovered or I have an addiction problem. Like. Like in those situations, believe me, me, as a person in those situations know that what I have done has greatly affected the relationship. And. And just like, somebody has to get to the right place to face off with some of my anger issues or addiction or some of the other things that we can struggle with my mental health challenges, we have to muster up the courage in order to do this, too. Like, it's the same, it's similar, and it's not so much about you as it is, like, I've already said, the willingness to confront themselves. Like, you have to understand that's the most courageous act we ever do as a human being. Like, that takes a lot of courage to face off me.

So. So if you're, if someone's, you know, listening, join us, you know, wherever they're listening to our podcast here. If. If that person that we just spoke to, him or her and say, okay, yes, that's exactly how I. I feel. It ain't no way in heck I'm gonna, you know, step into a session. What. What could you share with him or her that was going they're going to quickly experience that you're not. That's not your approach. That's not how you. Because I assure everyone that that's not. But how would they feel that and know that quickly with they stepped in and they're nervous wreck? How do you assure them that that's not how you.

Well, let me just say this. The principle that I know that not many people do is that when we understand the emotional driver of the behavior, what's happened always makes sense. Sense. It's kind of like, of course you have anger issues, of course you have mental health issues, of course you had an affair. But we never get to the point where we understand the emotional driver. We just talk about what happened, the experiences of what didn't work and how and what led us there. Right. It's, it's a difference maker. Because if we do know how to uncover the emotional driver, it always comes from somewhere and it always makes sense. There is a principle also that we can't punish a person enough to clean up the mess. Like they're punishing themselves enough for everybody, believe me. Like, what they carry after making some of these decisions or finding themselves wrestling with some of these things is far worse than anything that you're doing. And when I, when we, as a specialist, a relationship person trying to give help, or you as their partner or friends and family, just continue to bang on them and criticize them and minimize them for what it is they're not doing, we're just adding to the weight and there's no motivation there. I mean, think about it. Have you ever been more motivated to muster up the courage to confront yourself, to go in a new direction because people punished you, criticized you, belittled you, minimized you? I mean, no, that, that's a terrible way of motivating or inspiring us or giving us the hope that we need to go, I think I can do this with you. I feel safe enough to do this. We're going to make it through, right? Hold my. That's what they need. They don't need you to criticize them, point out the flaws, point out all the problems in the relationship, which is what we tend to do. They need to be able to create a foundation of safety and courage to step in. Because obviously by saying, no, no, no, no, no, it's not no forever. It's just no, I don't know how to take that on right now. Like, that's way over what I feel I'm capable of. That's really what they're saying. So I Have some solutions for you for this conversation that will help you, right? Basically talk about and open up better ways of exploring the help and support that you need to go in a new direction. If by chance you find yourself in your relationship right now really struggling, and if you're not struggling here, I guarantee you there's somebody in your sphere of influence who is, and I'm going to encourage you to pass this along and share this information with them, because we've got to stop the criticizing, the banging on, the minimizing, basically the punishing the person to get them in to get help. Like, that's a. That's a terrible way to go about it, in my humble opinion. And also reassure them that that's not how we roll over here, right? Not in the love shack, not in my private office, and not in our better love club. That is not allowed. There's an exploration that needs to go on. And when we uncover those, right, sometimes the person doesn't even know what's driving it. When we uncover those, it all makes sense. It's like, wow, of course that happens.

And may I ask just one follow up on that. So when you start working with someone that has that inevitable, very realistic fear because he or she maybe has been the one that has initiated the less than, say, desirable behavior for a specific, you know, situation or whatever, do you find that he or she quickly starts to feel and resonate what you just described?

Oh, it's such a relief, right? Because what they're bracing them themselves for or what they're mustering up the courage to face is to go, well, see, Amy, Lou had an affair. And I'm going to go, amy, how could you? Like, didn't you know that was not going to destroy your relationship? I mean, what were you thinking? That's what they're expecting, you know, or, you know, Harry with his, you know, anger management issue. Harry, what do you mean? You punched a hole in the wall and told the kids to go to their rooms, Spanked them unnecessarily. Come on, Harry, pull it together. You know, that's what they're expecting to hear, like, what the hell is wrong with you? And. And that doesn't happen. And there's just this moment of sweet relief. We get 30 minutes into the session going, oh, okay. You know, so it's like, we have to uncover what drives that for you. Otherwise we'll never be able to change the behavior. And I want you to know there's always a really good reason for the behavior we do. We just never take the time to understand what, what drives it. And when we can do that, then we can all create a who, a whole new understanding. And the person who has been struggling with this for years goes, oh man, that makes so much sense. And their partner, you know, that's been using this as the whipping stick for, I don't know, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years can go, wow, I never knew that makes so much sense.

Also, it's not like you're gonna come in to Mom 2's office or the Better Love Club or you know, zoom a zoom private session and she's going to take a score sheet and then tally up whose problem is whose and you know, prescribe you. Okay, John, you have these problems. Samantha, you have these problems. Yeah, you have too many. Divorce. Here's your papers, go fill them out. Like the thing is, is she's going to teach you, you know, show you some areas where you're struggling. Give you then the things to put in your toolbox so that you can change that behavior and have some skills to go back to when that stuff comes up again and again. Because it's going to. But the truth is it's not about coming in and being told what's wrong with you or being told, you know, given a diagnosis or told, yes, stay married or break up. It's about being taught skills and then the work is done outside of the sessions. The work is not done in, in the room. You know, it's like that. I think that's a misconception about getting any kind of help for your relationship. It's not about what happens in that one hour, it's what happens after that hour is over.

Well, I would say that's going to be whether you're successful or not is what Brooks so eloquently said. And that's why we have the Better Love Club. Because you, we get in there and you start doing some emotional push ups. Literally. How? Because we do breakout rooms and things. Obviously it's a metaphoric description, but that's the only way that any of us gets better than anything. I always remind people, like, look, the best athletes, the best business people, the best chef, whatever. The best of as everything, they do it through lots of practice. Practice, lots and lots of practice. And that's really the playground that we all come together in a safe sacred space and get better at this thing we call love. It's not really, it's really, when you think about it, it's pretty understandable, you know, if we can put our arms around and explain it that way.

Well, and if I just may stack on that, what changes the experience you're currently living is the ability to change your behavior.

Yes.

And in order to change your behavior, it's going to require. Require the practice of doing new things. There is no other way around it. And that's why we give you, you know, the, the skills and the learning as well as a place to come in and practice those things we talk about and that we teach. Because until we can do that, it's very difficult to uncover some of the things that we've talked about doing. And unfortunately, what Brooke described so eloquently about a traditional counseling approach is very much that scorecard comes out and it's. It's basically the person becomes like, you know, the scorekeeper, you know. Yeah, yeah. Oh, three points for Jim. Good point. Or, oh, two points for Mary. Oh, gosh, Jim, you know, could you say that a little better? That was really terrible. And. And then, yes, they will make the bold decisions of, there's no, there's nothing to work here. Like, we can recover from anything if you have two people who are willing to do it. And I say do it means I'm going to be working on me, because that is what I bring to the table in order to co create with you. So when I say let's work on our relationship, what I'm really saying is I need to do a better job of looking at me, because how I do it is going to affect my part, and then I'm going to be able to see where I'm doing my part and my partner maybe is struggling, and if I stay out of blame, there's going to be a reason why that struggle is happening, and we can talk about ways to support that and go forward. So working your way out of anything is absolutely possible. You just have to have two willing people. And that's why I say our greatest risk is just running out of emotional gas, you know, and that that time frame to muster up the courage to get the help that you need. Right. Really does drain us emotionally. It wears us out. And that's why they end. We just can't take it anymore. Right. And rightfully so. We shouldn't. When a relationship takes us to a place where we are personally breaking down and we're falling apart, that is not a breakthrough. That is a breakdown. And you have to know the difference. We need a breakthrough. And if you're not willing to do something outside of what it is you're currently doing, that breakthrough can't happen. You're just going to continue to break down. And that's why we're always saying, okay, sooner rather than later is good. And please know we're not going to judge anybody and point fingers like, come on, this is a supportive environment. I promise I'm not going to tell you what you need to do. You're going to figure that out. I'm just going to give you the skills and tools and understanding that you need so that you can have a productive conversation about how do we move forward. That's it. That's what you're going to do here. Okay? So to get that conversation going, here's the solutions that I wanted to jump into that can give you some step by step things that you can begin doing right now to maybe open up this conversation with a reluctant or hesitant partner. The first thing that I'm going to invite you to do is probably going to make you gulp. So I just, I just want you to brace yourself, okay? Hard swallow, take a breath, because here's what it's going to take. If you're wanting somebody to come and join you in getting help with your relationship and you're going to extend an invitation to them, the first thing you're going to need to do is get vulnerable yourself. Like, you're going to have to like, drop all the reasons and all the begging and all the pleading and you have to stop obligating them to do it through the acts of manipulation. And you have to get vulnerable. You got to get real. And essentially that's what you're asking them to do, isn't it? It's kind of ironic. You're asking them to share with you why it is. Please, come on, tell me from your heart. Why won't you get help? What's the problem? What's the resistance as you're going, oh, great, okay, so we're just gonna do this all the time so, like, you're just done, like, this is over? No.

So may I point out, would you say that's a great demonstration of what we say? Many times you're behaving in the very way of what you don't like in your partner.

Oh, for sure.

Hopefully you, you caught that for, you know, if you're driving out, really, really take that in again. I mean, because when I share that with people on the calls, I think it oftentimes I think I've lost connection with the person because it goes really quiet. And I'm simply pointing out how we all do it. Like, oh my gosh, I never. Yeah, you're behaving in the very way of which you don't like, that's being demonstrated with your partner. Well, you, that's, that's, that's pretty incongruent.

Or you're asking them to go places that you're not willing to go yourself. Like, just open up and tell me, come on, I'll do anything, you know?

And again, doesn't matter what you say. It matters how you behave.

Well, this is also reminds me of parenting. I'm not a parent yet, but when parents say, please tell me anything, I promise you won't get in trouble if you tell me. And then you ground them when they tell you something that you don't like. It reminds me of our TikTok about emotional affairs, which a lot of people comment on and still have commented on, and some are commenting right now as we speak. And I'm looking at them, so it's kind of bringing it up in my mind. People say, well, you ask your partner to answer these questions because you, you've listed out some questions on the video that are more important than finding out the details of the affair, and they'll just lie to you or they won't tell you the truth. And here's the thing being finding out that someone is cheating on you. I can't imagine a more painful situation that's. It's terrible. We're not saying it's not terrible. It's terrible and it's painful and it hurts. But why would your partner tell you the truth about the affair that they had if you're asking them in a way where they know they're going to get berated or, you know, like, why would they tell you those answers if they know that when they answer them, they're just going to be put through the meat grinder.

Yeah. There's going to be hell to pay. Yeah.

Yes. So that's all we're saying. Like, why would your partner want to work on the relationship if they know that it's going to be a hole for them? You know, even though there's pain there, you still have to remember that they're a human, too, and they don't want to face the reckoning if they know that that's what. What's going to take place. So why don't we come at it from, hey, I want to work on this relationship because I love you, because.

You know, and I think it's fair to say, I mean, again, throw the outliers out in any situation, but I can assure you, or I would say with great love and respect. It would be my sense that those of us that have made these significant, say, missteps, we certainly know that that was maybe not the best choice. But I also often remind people too. It also confirms me without a shadow of a doubt, at the end of the day, sometimes we're gasping for emotional error and we're going to take these so called egregious actions that we know is at great risk and peril because we simply have nothing left. It shows you how desperate we are sometimes. Again, I am not defending it. I'm only helping us realize what we do. And Stacy likes to say how we're wired as humans. I'm telling you, we all can get pressed and some interesting behaviors will emerge if, if it's no other solution that we can think of or know of at the time.

This makes me think of the quote that says, violence is what happens when we don't know what to do with our suffering. Exactly. You know, that is where we go. And it's a survival skill. It doesn't mean it's right, it doesn't mean it's wrong, it doesn't mean that it doesn't create an absolute shit show. But there has to be some kind of an outlet when we don't know what to do. It's going to be something interesting. So you're going to have to get vulnerable. You're absolutely going to have to get vulnerable. And just like Brooke said, you know, start the conversation out by saying something along the lines of, hey, I want you to know that I care about you and I love you and I want this to work right, this relationship that we have and that we've created and spent all these years and matters to me and I want it to get better. There's some places here that I'm not happy. Okay? So I'm asking you to work on our relationship because I can't imagine that you're happy too. Like, I know you're not. So that would take us to number two, which is, instead of going, why, why, why won't you get help? Instead, ask the question, what are the biggest concerns that come up for you around getting help? And this is going to help us uncover some of those things that I mentioned in the beginning of the show. Like, well, I'm afraid I'm going to be the bad guy or I, I'm afraid of where the is stuff is going to take us. You know, I, I, I feel like the relationship is going to be compromised. You're going to hear those kinds of things in this question. And here's the thing, when you ask the question of them, what are the biggest concerns that you have around us? Getting help. Make sure you share yours, too, because I bet you got some. I'm afraid of this, too. I'm struggling with this, too. I'm nervous about where we're going to go, too. And then all of a sudden, you find that you're kind of both on the same page. You both have things coming up. It's just one is ready to face it and one isn't. That's all. It's really that simple. And so be a demonstration of what it is you're asking them to do. Confronting ourselves really is the most courageous thing we will do ever as a human being. And so you're ready to do it, and they're just not. But talk about what that is. And ironically, seeing you do it and them recognizing that you have fears and concerns about this too. Right? And you being able to understand what their fears and concerns are creates a wonderful, safe place where we can venture together. You know, it's different than saying, okay, you've got it all figured out, or think you've got it all figured out and you're ready to take on the dragon, and I'm not. That's very different than, hey, come on, hold my hand. I'm scared, too. Let's do this together. Let's lean in and see what happens. I'm ready to face it. And. And so that's where this needs to come from. So then number three is going to be share with them why you want it to work, why you want to work on it. Because oftentimes what we make up in our heads is very different than. Than what's actually happening. Like, why do you want to work on this? That might be a conversation. Why don't we just leave it the way it is? You know, I mean, I know it's not great, but at least it's something. I'm. I'm terrified of being alone. That's a real fear. If we work on this, I'm afraid I'm going to be alone. Okay, so why do you want to work on it? Create a vision of what's potentially possible from your lens, from your experience. And I'm going to invite you to reach back into the past and your relationship. This is where. When it was good, what made it good? Like, talk about those things. Remember the vision that you planned and you talked about for endless hours in the beginning? We need a new vision, and we need to Know that, gosh, we're going to venture there together, you know, and, and that's what this is all about. And then that becomes a place of inspiration instead of a place of, you know, belittling, criticizing, breaking down, blaming, finger pointing, judging. That's not going to take us anywhere. So point to the vision. Share what it is you see. Why do you want to work on it? Tell them, what do you see as possible? Where do you feel like the potential is with the two of you in this? And then let them know that you're going to begin creating a better you because that is what you bring to the table. And that is all we have to bring to the table is you in this so called thing called our relationship. And you're going to say it like this, you know what? I've decided that this is so important and that this vision is so possible in my own mind's eye, that I'm going to get better creating a better me so that at least I can show up better in this relationship and do my part. And I would love it if you would join me on that adventure. I mean, after all, this is how I feel. I can best create what it is I'm hoping for and desiring and wanting in our relationship. And I appreciate the fact that maybe you may not be ready to go there and that's okay, but I'm going to get started because I think that's the greatest gift and impact that I can make on doing my part in this relationship. And here's the thing you need to understand. When we feel scared and awkward, we need a catalyst sometimes to get busy doing the things that we know we need to be doing or that would be really good for us. And you know, often that catalyst is pain. There's a saying that says serve being hungry. Starvation is a really great motivator. Like it'll get us to do things that we wouldn't do otherwise. And that's the gift sometimes our relationship partner brings to our lives, is they're saying, okay, great, I hear you, I understand you. I want you to know, I get it. But here's what I'm going to do and I hope you'll join me. And that becomes the catalyst in the moment that goes, oh, wow, I can't convince them to stay. I can't convince them to wait. Like, this train is moving out. Now that's a different conversation. I'd better decide whether I'm going to get on it or all those fears that I was afraid of happening anyway are going to Happen anyway. And that will be the thing to kind of get me to show up. Not for you per se, but for me, for myself, when that's a terrifying adventure.

Well, and there, and I just would add, therein lies the gift of, you know, what we call these catalytic moments. And, and you, you hear and read about people say that have been, they discover very significant, say health, you know, you know, diagnosis, challenge. And many. And some of those people will share with you in their own terms and experience that like it was the best thing that happened to me in that motivate, made it, excuse me, motivated me at the highest level to turn and face lots of other things that weren't going well. I mean, some version of that. Right? I mean, so like, wow, they took that incredibly challenging situation and just opened it up for exploration in every area of their life.

So if we are, if we allow the hesitant partner to enroll us in waiting, guess what's going to happen? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. And you already know that. I'm just going to highlight it. Nothing. Instead, what you're going to continue to do is the breakdown that you're currently experiencing.

And I would just say the two things that we as a family are constantly navigating with people that call me and Brooke talks to on social media and stuff is the indecision and waiting. If we can be the catalyst to move you from that. We have been done a good job in my opinion, put a toe in the water. But I think it really, especially when 95% of the time two people in the relationship, even though they need help, the average new statistics Stacy just found somewhere waits six years before they do something. But my, my point here is of great passion as you can tell is they have no idea. Realizing that you could choose to do everything that Stacy has laid out and almost finished before we rudely interrupted her, that yes, you can do all this, still, still honor your partner, but be the Braveheart we like to call and start not by threatening and leveraging it, but be the demonstration of what's possible. See, that's a whole framework that no one talks about.

Well, and here's the thing that is going to give you the person who wants to start working on the relationship because yes, the relationship is kind of the thing that you're focusing on, but there's really a driver inside of you that you want to explore and become a better you. Like that's what's driving this really. If we get down to the net, net bottom or foundation of it all and, and then the throw off is you get to be the catalyst for change. I mean, that's just a. You win either way. You get started going and you're going to feel better. That's going to alleviate the stress and pressure and the begging and the pleading and the, and the haranguing on your partner because you're going to get busy going. And then as you learn and grow yourself, you're going to be an improved catalyst to your partner, right? That you're just going to be able to be able to navigate the ups and downs of the relationship from a better place. I mean, one does absolutely have the power to change the trajectory of a conversation and our communication and our experience together.

And again, I would just point out that's not just us saying that. I shared there was recent woman who's Harvard educated and, and such where she has, you know, there's, you know, case studies to where one person does have the ability and power to change the trajectory of a relationship. One of the two. So that's not just. Not us saying that. That has now been. And she even, and she even said, though, just, just. I know, but she even said, like, until I had read this, I didn't believe it myself. This woman of very high, you know, credit credentials and such. So I just think, I know we know it, but it's powerful to get outside confirmation. So people don't think we've kind of lost our marbles over here in the love shack. You know what I'm saying?

Right. I mean, it really is. I mean, you just think about how have you ever seen a person that can navigate a difficult conversation eloquently? Right? And even though everybody's emotionally fired up, they have the ability to continue to pave the way through to the better side of that conversation, to a place of understanding and everybody feeling heard. Like, that's skill. That's absolute skill.

And I share with people on my calls. I say, look, here's the thing we're going to incur. You know, you start working with us, we're going to encourage you and teach and mentor you how to show up as the best version of yourself and all the while continue to invite that hesitant partner. I said, let me ask you a question. Do you have much emotional difference when you're invited somewhere versus when you're told you have to be somewhere? Think about. They say, oh my gosh, yes. I said, well, there you go. Think about if you're constantly showing up as a different, new, improved version of yourself and constantly inviting, and you're going to do that by Behaving in ways that we teach and mentor you. Come on, there's no way that it's not going to go better. Again, we cannot guarantee because that's out of integrity other than guarantee. Guarantee that you're going to stay together or not or because I hear a lot of stories from people that they, they've talked to other platforms and bodies of work and that's all great.

But I said they promise that there's going to be a specific.

Well, they say, yeah, if you work with me for three calls or sessions, I and I say, you know what, that's B.S. but I always go back to what we guarantee as a family. We're going to give you everything we got for it to go well. That's what I can plant my flag. That's one of our communication platforms principles. It's going to go well because we're going to give you everything we got for it to do. So that's the guarantee.

Yeah. So here's the thing and we know these principles that we're sharing with you because of working in the space for more than a decade. And so because of this, we invite you to, if this is your situation, jump into Better Love Club. Like there is no better way for you to get started moving, improving you than to jump into the Better Love Club and know that when your partner's ready, they can join you at any time for no additional cost. Like they can come along and jump in anytime. And in the meantime, just think about it, you get to jump into the Better Love Club and you get to start sharing with them what you're learning and the experiences that you're having. Right. And the impact that that's having on you, that's a catalyst and they go, oh wow. Yeah, nothing like what I thought just.

Had a brand new member just was on our very first if whenever you're listening to this but you know, she emailed Brooke and said I'd like to add my partner and boom, the partner was given the same confidentiality agreement that we ask everyone to sign. And yeah, now he is going to be, now he is a member and hopefully he'll show up this coming Monday night and be a part of the group. So it's at no extra cost and he or she has their own. I just want this because to me this is important. I know I'm kind of hyper vigilant in areas but the person that comes in, the new husband, the wife, the partner that wasn't didn't join initially where also we treat them with great Love and respect is they have their own login, their own access to the portal.

Portal.

Like no, you gotta share. No B.S. you're an adult. We're all adults here. You have your own, you know, portal and experience and you can share your comments. So let's just make this real and make this as inviting as possible.

You know, you're kind of sexy when you get all fired up.

I know I am. I'm fired up.

So all that to say, the Better Love Club is a really great place for you to get started and encourage and demonstrate to your partner what you're learning, what you're experiencing. And, and that's going to be the best catalyst you could ever give them while you continue to explore what's stopping them, you know, as you share what your fears and concerns are.

And so, and you can put a, you know, a very, a toe in the water risk free. If you don't feel like it's a good place for you or we don't provide value, guess what, we're going to give you your money back. So there really is no risk.

Okay. So I feel like I need to go through those solution steps just really quickly, just as a recap here and.

Brooke and I won't interrupt you.

Well, and here's the thing. I. Let's do some takeaways. What are some of the biggest points that you really want to highlight as we wrap up this conversation today from each of you? And my part will be, I'm going to recap these solutions because that is, I think, the best thing that I can give you on how to approach this. The first one is you got to get vulnerable. You're going to have to talk about what, what makes you afraid and why it is you want to work on this relationship and why it is you would want to to see happen as a vision. Right. So that's the first three. Get vulnerable. Talk about and ask what is it that makes you nervous about getting help? Here's mine. And three is okay, share the vision. Why do you want to work on it? Share that with your partner and then let them know that, hey, I think this is so important. Here's what I'm going to do. I've chosen to get started myself and know that I'm not attempting to leave you behind. Or, or I do want to understand and accept the reality that you're not ready and that's fine. I'm going to get started and I'm going to get jumping into the blc and I just want you to know these People have made it so easy that you can join me anytime with your own private login. And then you're going to go to the betterloveclub.com and you're going to put a toe in the water. Sign up for a month. I think you get, you know, it's, it's. Come and join us and check it out. We're going to know instantly if that is something that's going to work for you. And then as you demonstrate and show up, more and more other things that you're learning and sharing that with your partner, which we're absolutely going to encourage, they're gonna, they're gonna jump in. I can't tell you how many couples on the front side have said, oh, there's no way they will ever come. And sure enough, they. They come along because they see and understand that there's a different experience that's happening in the household in regards to how you show up, and they want more of that. It becomes an inspiration. And yeah, they might be a little sarcastic. Oh, you must be saying those things that that woman told you to say. Yeah, yeah, I am. And they work really, really well. So, you know, you want to join me? Come on. You know, don't be offended by that because they're going to see and notice, and if it's still scaring them, they're going to try and shut it down by saying, oh, yeah, there's that crazy lady again telling you what to say. Yeah, yeah, it is. And I love it. And it's working really, really well. So that's what I would encourage you to do instead of probably what you've been doing for months or years. It's. It's a better solution for everybody. So what if the two of you have.

Well, I would just say play and Burke. Hopefully we. We can extract out. I mean, you know how we. Stacy hears often. Like, God, I wish I could. Could I have you in my ear? So what we're doing. Yes. So, meaning that was a very. I'm gonna brag on my wife here that I can assure you if you present it like that, like, or your version of that. So again, it's a very much invitational, encouraging, positive. I'm going to choose to step in. It means nothing that I don't care for you. And I, you know, that I'm not trying to be superior to you and you're just as tag along. Meaning I, I mean, I felt it and I've heard it many times. So remember the, The. The sharing of how you're Going to move forward will be the catalyst. However he or she chooses to, you know, take step in or not step in or however long they take because of the way that you're doing it. You know, again, you're behaving in a way I would bet probably that your partner has not experienced you, especially around this very sensitive topic. Okay. So you got to set it up for success out of the gate. And I. My sense is what Stacy just shared with us, the literal. Her version of it, just put your version around that. If you need some specific help on that, you know, we can help you with that in a private session as well, but we can help you to come into their love club and ask a question during a live session, or ask them, but privately to us, and we'll help you.

What about you?

Anything, Brooke, for you?

I would just say, you know, if your partner is acting like they don't want to work on the relationship, I'd probably say 95% of the time, it's because they're scared. And if your friend was scared about something, how would you encourage them to do it? Would it be to berate them or, you know, tell them why they suck or that they're a little baby and they shouldn't be scared or that, you know, you don't care about me because you're not going to do this with me? No, you would be reassuring and you would be tell them they don't need to be scared or that you're scared, too, or. And we're going to do it anyway, or, you know, you would be very kind. Or if your child was scared, same thing. You'd be very kind about it. You wouldn't be a bully. So I would just invite you to think about it in that way because it kind of takes the focus off you and making this a direct affront towards you and helps you know that they're in their head just as much as you're in your head. You know, it's not. It's not about them not caring about you. It's them being scared and nervous and all of these things. And so how could you approach it knowing that.

Yeah, I love that. I love that. So, as I've already said, spread this around. We need to do a better job of being able to talk about exploring, getting the help that we so need when we need it. And I know that nothing good happens when we wait. And I understand why we wait. And so my encouragement has always stopped waiting and. And even just one person get busy doing what? No, what we know, we need to do instead so that. That takes us to turning the corner here. We're gonna have a little bit of follow the fun.

Just your favorite moment of every.

You know, it's pretty darn close. I mean, I like the teaching part, let's be honest. But I do love to have a little bit of fun. And I know it's kind of like a screeching. Now, wait a minute. What. What are we doing again? But I want you to realize, as human beings, we can do that. Like, we can have a screeching moment where we put the problems on the shelf and we can have a little bit of fun and we can go in a totally different direction. Right now. There is no perfect time or way to do that. I can just put the brakes on and go, okay, we're gonna drop this now. We're gonna go have some fun.

This is one of the found of our six foundations inside Better Love Club, is it not?

It is playing novelty.

Playing novelty.

And here's the thing. If we don't learn how to get good at this, you know, it's kind of like I can't have fun with you. I can't let you kiss me or hold me or tell you that I love you if you've just pissed me off. The hell you can't. Absolutely, you can. And I would encourage you to develop the ability to challenge that type of thinking. I can be so mad at you and tell you I love you all in the same breath, right? I can. Because as human beings, we have the ability to feel all of our emotions. And unfortunately, we tend to hang out in the ones that are. Are not so great and avoid the ones that will refuel us and help us feel better until we solve the problem, which just sets you up so that you're going to hang out in misery a little longer. Like, that doesn't make any sense when you think about it. So you have to be able to emotionally put on the brakes and go, okay, here we are. Yep, we're going to have some fun. We're going to talk about something fun and delightful now.

So I'm weighted with bated breath. Are you on this week's fun? And I just share with you, listener, that I don't typically know, you know, until I may I cruise the notes real quick before we started to record. But I don't. I mean this. And Stacy's just like a kid at Toys R Us when she's out here. Jiggy the coon dog is next to her and she's drinking her coffee. And she comes with usually the follow the fun and the song, by the way, the song is incredible this week. I just will share that real quick.

For those of you who don't know what we're talking about. Hang on. It's gonna all make sense.

We even had Brooke listen to it before the episode. Just might you ask, because mom, too, was fired up.

Yeah, well. And. Oh, well, let's. Let's. Let's just let it play out naturally. I think we're kind of getting ahead of it.

Well, we're excited.

I know we're following some fun. So today is a little follow the fun moment that I call let's talk. And nobody really likes to hear that.

Really?

That's.

You're. That's fun. That almost seems like an oxymoron.

I know, I know. But just hang with me. It's going to be really fun. Fun and. And helpful, shall we say? Okay. Let's talk comes from. My idea about this came from a Native American culture. There are a few tribes that use a talking stick to keep the peace. It works simply on the principle of whoever has the stick is the person who gets to speak, and the other person is encouraged to listen, which is always the hardest part of a conversation. That is resisting the temptation to speak. Like, listen and focus on the listening part instead of what's being said. That often takes practice. Right. Because as everybody starts reacting, right, we are thinking about what we're going to say, not about what we're hearing and attempting to do the heavy lifting of understanding something that doesn't make any sense to you. Like, that's where the work in communication happens is in the listening department. So to help you with this, we want to have a little fun with this. I want you to choose an object around your house that could be your quasi talking stick, and it could be a rock. It could be a picture of the two of you. It could be a kitchen utensil, or for that matter, it could be an absolute favorite power tool. Does not matter. Okay. What I want you to do, though, is be able to deem it and set it aside as your talking stick. And I want to encourage you to attach a note that says, if there's ever a time when you don't think I'm not listening to you, hand this to me, and I promise I'll pause and listen. And when I need you to listen, instead of yelling, I'll hand it back to you. And you're going to attach that to the object, and then we're going to make it really wonderful, we're going to put it in a very fancy bag or box, and we're going to wrap it up, put a bow on it, and we're going to present it as though I am presenting a very precious gift to you. So I might, you know, surround a meal with it or have a little snack and our favorite beverage. And I'm going to pull this out, and I'm going to present it to you and let you unwrap it. And here's the thing. I know that this is going to change the ability of where you focus when you attempt to have a conversation. Like, whoever has the stick gets to talk, and you get to practice the listening. And then it's then in there, in those moments, we get to understand the wrestling that goes on inside of us, right? That. That urge to go, oh, but I have something to say. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just. Just pause. There's going to be time for that. Right? That takes practice. So I kind of wrapped up, you know, a little fun and. And something important that would help us have better communication and threw in a little, you know, history while we were at it. Now, that's fun, don't you think? Yes. Okay. As everybody was talking about the song, it is pretty spectacular. Jill Scar is one of my artists, and for those of you who are new to the podcast, I select a song each and every episode to kind of communicate through music the just of what it is we're talking about or the experience that we're trying to create in our teachings and our lessons. And I do it because, yes, I love music. And I think that sometimes music can say it better than we can say it in a whole bunch of words. And I feel like Jill Scott today and her song whenever you're around knocked it out of the park. So I had to share it with the team. I was so excited. And. And this is why you're going to understand. We've just talked about how to enroll your partner into the idea of getting help in your relationship. And she opens up the song by saying, you know, listen to me, listen to me, listen to me. I'm gonna have to sing it. And she says, I've been talking to this man and he makes me smile when I'm down He says sweet things and all the things are things I need to hear and that's as far as it's gone, I promise. But here's the thing. I miss you. I miss what we have. And it seems like, though, when you're around, I'M always alone. My hope is I can have you with me. You know, what happened to our relationship in the past. But the problem really is I'm lonely whenever you're around. And, man, it's. It's a good one. And it's got a little good jazz tune to it, too. So you're going to want to dance to it. And I want you to know that you can go and get this song by going to our website and checking out our Spotify playlist, or you can just go directly to Spotify and search up, I think. Brooke, it's the Love Shack live playlist. Did I say that right? Yay. All right, people, we gotta wrap this up.

Okay?

These people have spent some time with us and we want to thank you for that, for taking time out of your day and listening to us here in the Love Shack or night or.

Wherever you're listening and whatever time it is, we. We just realized we've got, like, our third or fourth biggest audiences in Germany, I think, wasn't it?

Yes.

Pretty for our wonderful. The power of the Internet.

And if by chance you have a conversation about love, sex and relationships that you would like us to have here on the show. Absolutely. Go to our website and let us know.

Come on.

We're all in this together and we can all get better at this together. So reach out to us. We're dedicated to talking about the things that you want to hear and listen to. You know, the things that you feel like are going to improve the experiences that you're having in your relationships right now. So I think that's a wrap. We're Thomas Stacy Bartley along with Brooke. It's great to be here with you today. Thank you so much for spending some of your time with us in the Love Shack. And we look forward to seeing you next week.

Bye bye now. Okay, everybody, time to go. We gotta close the doors to the Love Shack for this week. You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. Come back next week, though, and join us for another edition of Love Shack live with Tom and Stacey Bartley.